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The title pretty much explains itself. This is a single guy and I don't want any 'any soldier who does his duty' BS, it has to be a real person.

Round one- Personal achievements only (no points for leadership or anything others did for him/her)
Round two- Unrestricted.

Round 1: Simo Haya.
Round 2: Captain Fvcking America

Robery Henry Cain: Victoria Cross winner when during the battle of Arnhem, his company was cut off from the allies by a full enemy battalion. Throughout the time they were cut off, he personally engaged enemy tiger and panzer tanks with only spring-propelled shells and small arms. He personally destroyed 6 tanks and on several occasions walked right out infront of them...loaded his weapon and fired in direct view of the tank. On one of those occasions, the tank fired an 88 shell straight at him, missing narrowly and blowing the legs off his trousers and embedding pieces of shrapnel in them. His reaction was to reload again and fire before the tank could.

TUL BAHADUR PUN: A Gurkha, who in world war 2 ended up fighting off an enemy battalion singlehandedly after the other 4 members of his outpost were killed. For nearly 2 hours he kept reloaded and firing his mounted gun and drove back 4 seperate advances by Japanese soldiers. At one point the Japanese kept throwing grenades into his foxhole and he simply picked them up and threw them back. This went on until 1 went off in his hand and blew it off. His reaction was to keep on reloading and firing with one hand until support arrived.

Charles Upham: The only combat soldier to have won the VC twice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Upham

GYSGT Carlos Hathcock


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Hathcock

http://www.cracked.com/article_17019_5-real-life-soldiers-who-make-rambo-look-like-pussy.html

Achilles?...

waaaait =|.

Dan Daly usmc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Daly

You guys are all gay.

General George S. ****ing Patton, he beat the Mexicans, twice the Germans and he's all American, nuff said.

/thread close.

Everyone knows Patton was gay with Rommel.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Everyone knows Patton was gay with Rommel.

Patton was the one getting his dick sucked, so Rommel was the gay one.

Originally posted by inimalist
http://www.cracked.com/article_17019_5-real-life-soldiers-who-make-rambo-look-like-pussy.html

I disagree, none of those guys make Rambo look like a pussy. Have any of them jumped off a cliff into a pine-wood forest? Stood and shot at a Russian Mil Mi-24 Hind gunship while in the open while groaning? Turned 50+ Burmese soldiers into butter with a .50 cal?

yes yes and only because they lacked Burmese soldiers.

Simo Hayha.


He was a sniper who (Alone) killed seven hundred soldiers.

It all ended when he got shot in the face. He was far too bad ass to die from that so he survived. Seriously.

That would have to be Alexander of Greece.

I would say Lu Bu or Saitō Musashibō Benkei.

But they're more like warriors than soldiers.

I remember Lu Bu from Romance of the Three Kingdoms, dude would destroy anyone in single combat and give him an army of 50, he'd rape an army of 500.

****er would always betray you though, shady bastard, had to execute him.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Round 1: Simo Haya.
Round 2: Captain Fvcking America

Originally posted by inimalist
http://www.cracked.com/article_17019_5-real-life-soldiers-who-make-rambo-look-like-pussy.html

Originally posted by Genesis
Simo Hayha.


He was a sniper who (Alone) killed seven hundred soldiers.

It all ended when he got shot in the face. He was far too bad ass to die from that so he survived. Seriously.

fail-quote is fail. copy+paste is fun!

Pfft, that's like 7-8 people a day. Rambo kill's 50+ a day and he does it before lunch.

Give Rambo 100 days to war on the enemy, and the enemy will no longer have an army, this includes mechanized forces too.

NzT1EDJgC3Q

Jesus!

The official U.S. Army citation for Audie Murphy's Medal of Honor reads:

Rank and organization: Second Lieutenant, U.S. Army, Company B 15th Infantry, 3rd Infantry Division.
Place and date: Near Holtzwihr France, January 26, 1945.
Entered service at: Dallas, Texas. Birth: Hunt County, near Kingston, Texas, G.O. No. 65, August 9, 1944.
Citation: Second Lt. Murphy commanded Company B, which was attacked by six tanks and waves of infantry. 2d Lt. Murphy ordered his men to withdraw to a prepared position in a woods, while he remained forward at his command post and continued to give fire directions to the artillery by telephone. Behind him, to his right, one of our tank destroyers received a direct hit and began to burn. Its crew withdrew to the woods. 2d Lt. Murphy continued to direct artillery fire, which killed large numbers of the advancing enemy infantry. With the enemy tanks abreast of his position, 2d Lt. Murphy climbed on the burning tank destroyer, which was in danger of blowing up at any moment, and employed its .50 caliber machine gun against the enemy. He was alone and exposed to German fire from three sides, but his deadly fire killed dozens of Germans and caused their infantry attack to waver. The enemy tanks, losing infantry support, began to fall back. For an hour the Germans tried every available weapon to eliminate 2d Lt. Murphy, but he continued to hold his position and wiped out a squad that was trying to creep up unnoticed on his right flank. Germans reached as close as 10 yards, only to be mowed down by his fire. He received a leg wound, but ignored it and continued his single-handed fight until his ammunition was exhausted. He then made his way back to his company, refused medical attention, and organized the company in a counterattack, which forced the Germans to withdraw. His directing of artillery fire wiped out many of the enemy; he killed or wounded about 50. 2d Lt. Murphy's indomitable courage and his refusal to give an inch of ground saved his company from possible encirclement and destruction, and enabled it to hold the woods which had been the enemy's objective.


Copied from Wiki

http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/20070801/general-george-s-patton.jpg

so... what was that supposed to be?

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2/Jimbo_18/Lu20Bu20art.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/L%C3%BC_Bu_Portrait.jpg

Lu Bu

Considered by most historians as the greatest and most powerful warrior of China, rivaling Achilles in skill.
Wields a giant spear known as the "Sky Scorcher".
Famous for stalemating the Three Sworn Brothers (Guan Yu, Liu Bei, and Zhang Fei, all of whom are prominent warriors in China) in a battle for a prolonged period of time.

This dude is a monster, and will literally rip apart anyone who stands in his way.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d131/firecheck78/tadakatsuHonda.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/neil_james.bruce/Honda-copy.jpg

Honda Tadakatsu

One of the greatest generals in the Sengoku period, who remained loyal to Tokugawa Ieyasu.
He is often called "The Warrior Who Surpassed Death Itself", wielding the legendary "Tonbo-Giri" and dons "The Great Platinum Armor".
A tactical genius with unparalleled might in the battlefield, he NEVER lost a battle. And we are talking about an era where muskets were already invented.

http://ui10.gamespot.com/905/benkei_2.jpg
http://www.st.rim.or.jp/~success/photo/kosigoe_14.jpg

Saitō Musashibō Benkei

A warrior monk who served Minamoto No Yoshitsune.

Said to have in Gojo Bridge, where he slew everyone who passed by that bridge, eventually collectin 999 swords.
On his 1000th, he was eventually defeated by Minamoto no Yoshitsune. Because of this he served the young lord all throughout his life.
He died standing up, with hundreds of arrows pierced through him, defending the castle where Yoshitsune committed "seppuku" (suicide by stabbing)

mcclaine would handle all those guys. at the same time.

^
Without his fancy guns, he has no chance whatsoever.

These guys have overwhelming strength and skill that would make Jack Churchill and Bruce Lee shit in their pants.

Lu Bu is about as good as Achilles H2H. McClane is nowhere near as good as even Bruce Lee. Tadakatsu cuts him in half with his Tonbo-Giri. He can try put a beating on Benkei, even kick his nutsack for all I care. Benkei won't feel a thing, and will proceed pounding him to death.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2/Jimbo_18/Lu20Bu20art.jpg


That is one excellent piece of artwork, impressed.

Originally posted by WO Polaski
fail-quote is fail. copy+paste is fun!

You're post is purely composed of irony. A kind of irony you've generated but cannot notice yourself. Oh, that must hurt. To be so blindly pathetic must STING TERRIBLY!

Originally posted by Genesis
You're post is purely composed of irony. A kind of irony you've generated but cannot notice yourself. Oh, that must hurt. To be so blindly pathetic must STING TERRIBLY!

not really.



nah. hed kill them both with a sandwich.

The hell is up with all tha Asiaphile silliness in here. Asian general this or Ching-chong warrior that. **** have been dead for centuries; that's going on the grounds that they realy existed in the first place.

Anyhow, a close second to glory that is Patton, Montgomery, dude outwitted Rommel, he was bad-ass.

Ya got a problem with Asians? ahah


But yeah, Simo Hayha is the GOAT.

Not really, they make good food. Asiaphiles are silly though.

yeah, i wanted to say something about the asian myth warrior crap...

but i was too polite to say anything due to PC.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
yeah, i wanted to say something about the asian myth warrior crap...

but i was to polite to say anything due to PC.

"Myth" is correct, considering the penchant for Asian literature to boost, it's very likely possible these cats weren't wading in battle and slaying 20 men per sword swipe.

Hahaha, PC is for pussies.

Originally posted by Robtard
The hell is up with all tha Asiaphile silliness in here. Asian general this or Ching-chong warrior that. **** have been dead for centuries; that's going on the grounds that they realy existed in the first place.

Actually a surprising number of Japanese and Chinese heroes were almost certainly real. In the sense that Davey Crocket was real.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow


but i was too polite to say anything due to PC.

PCness is for n1663rs and gays...So my pastor told me while he was touching me when I was five.

miyamoto musashi comes to mind. truly undefeated genius.

Ugh.

Kawakami Gensai - the character that himura kenshin was based on. his battojutsu was legendary

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Actually a surprising number of Japanese and Chinese heroes were almost certainly real. In the sense that Davey Crocket was real.

yeah and davey crocket was shot by a mexi "can" in the head.


come on guys stop with the BS myth legends and put ppl whose feats can be proven by witness's and citations.

Originally posted by WO Polaski
not really.

It's true! The fact that you don't recognize it just proves my point. Come on! Point it out!

That's the beauty of irony.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
his battojutsu was legendary

reported

^huh?

replace the strange foreign word with penis. Just having a laugh

Originally posted by inimalist
replace the strange foreign word with penis. Just having a laugh

There's this trilogy of Samurai film about a sword master who also has a humongous penis (I know, Japanese + huge penis = lulz); he uses it to dispense just. The sword to of course.

The name escapes he right now, I'll have to get back to you.

battojutsu is the art of drawing the sword and simultaneously cutting down your opponent before they can react.

I wiki'd it, I was just trying to make an off-colour comment.

Robtard: that sounds ****ing hilarious

Originally posted by inimalist


Robtard: that sounds ****ing hilarious

I think one of the the films is called "Blade" something, it's actually pretty good.

The guy's cock is about 15 inches(only seen in silhouette) long and he uses it to interrogate the female villains for info, his actual sword is reserved for the male villains.

Originally posted by Robtard
he uses it to interrogate the female villains for info

best allusion ever

EDIT: lol, its really unlikely I've ever seen it, I'm not big on the Asian film stuff, but if you remember the name, let me know, that sounds like it is worth checking out

hmmm......... seems like someone has deep seeded homo erotic urges.

innocent

yes, and?

Shaolin monks are considered the best melee fighters

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Shaolin monks are considered the best melee fighters

Total nonsense, by the time it takes them to execute some animal move, a trained boxer can easily jab them twice in the face and follow it up with a nice uppercut.

Most MMA fighters will stomp them, be it UFC, Pride or other.

none sense poppy pants, a shoalin monk with a high pitch shriek or yelp can ko a ufc fighter without ever hitting him.

Originally posted by Robtard
Total nonsense, by the time it takes them to execute some animal move, a trained boxer can easily jab them twice in the face and follow it up with a nice uppercut.

Most MMA fighters will stomp them, be it UFC, Pride or other.

Hahahaha. What ignorance.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
hmmm......... seems like someone has deep seeded homo erotic urges.

innocent

Seated.

The phrase is deep-seated.

Originally posted by Genesis
Hahahaha. What ignorance.

Ah you're one of those that think the Crane Stance is actually useful if a street-fight. Or that limiting yourself to form(s) is actually a positve. Good, good.

But please, do prove my ignorance. Proceed.

Do I really need to? You're saying that glorified celebrity fighters (At best) can contend with a group of organized practitioners of martial arts who have decided their entire life (Probably since childhood) to an ancient form of fighting.

I've seen the training regiment of UFC Fighters and Shaolin Monks. I can personally tell you that punching a wall for hours until it has disintegrated and balancing on your head (Alone) for SEVERAL hours is practically more efficient than using a skip rope for twenty minutes and punching a soft bag.

These UFC Fighters go home at night. They wake up in the morning and tend to their families. They own businesses.

Martial arts is a Shaolin Monk's life and a UFC fighter bears no chance to even contend. Saying otherwise is quite ignorant, I'm sorry.

The conditioning of a UFC Fighter and his training is indeed an amazing feature. They're great fighters. Unfortunately, they cannot contend with Shaolin Monks. Really.

Except for the whole "practical training" aspect of being in the UFC.

Originally posted by Genesis
Do I really need to? You're saying that glorified celebrity fighters (At best) can contend with a group of organized practitioners of martial arts who have decided their entire life (Probably since childhood) to an ancient form of fighting.

I've seen the training regiment of UFC Fighters and Shaolin Monks. I can personally tell you that punching a wall for hours until it has disintegrated and balancing on your head (Alone) for SEVERAL hours is practically more efficient than using a skip rope for twenty minutes and punching a soft bag.

These UFC Fighters go home at night. They wake up in the morning and tend to their families. They own businesses.

Martial arts is a Shaolin Monk's life and a UFC fighter bears no chance to even contend. Saying otherwise is quite ignorant, I'm sorry.

The conditioning of a UFC Fighter and his training is indeed an amazing feature. They're great fighters. Unfortunately, they cannot contend with Shaolin Monks. Really.

Much of the Shoalin style of fighting doesn't translate into a fight, at least a fight where you can't predict what your opponent (another Shaolin practioner) will do, do to forms.

While FC fighers take what works best in any given situation and apply it to fighting. You're really goign to compare "balancing on your head" to learning boxing, kicking, wrestling, jui jit su and other grappling technics? Wait, you did. LoL.

Yeah, but a wall doesn't hit back and you're ignorant if you think UFC fighters practice for "20 minutes".

Sorry, but you have this romanticized (and ignorant) view of Shoalin monks. It's cute though. Maybe in your mind the Shaolin get their weapons while the others do not, if so, then in that fight you're probably right, as twin hooks are hard to block with padded gloves.

Originally posted by Robtard
Much of the Shoalin style of fighting doesn't translate into a fight, at least a fight where you can't predict what your opponent (another Shaolin practioner) will do, do to forms.

While FC fighers take what works best in any given situation and apply it to fighting. You're really goign to compare "balancing on your head" to learning boxing, kicking, wrestling, jui jit su and other grappling technics? Wait, you did. LoL.

Yeah, but a wall doesn't hit back and you're ignorant if you think UFC fighters practice for "20 minutes".

Sorry, but you have this romanticized (and ignorant) view of Shoalin monks. It's cute though.
No, I really don't. I know watching the celebrities bash each other on Spike TV is nice and makes them look good but it's seriously not that good of a martial arts, particularly in a street fight.

The first problem the MMA fighters will have is getting close enough to even hit the Monk. The second problem is mastery of a single form. An MMA fighter has so many techniques compiled, they never truly master a single form. This means they're often mediocre at several different forms. Sure, it makes them dangerous and they can lunge elbows and fists at their opponent after they pick them up by the waist and throw them to the ground in the same fashion over and over again but how will that help him against men who literally balanced themselves onto spears and force their necks against spearheads?


These men can slash bricks in half with the mere force of the side of their hand. You said a few good punches could take down a Shaolin Monk. If you've studied the art, you'd know that's untrue. They bash each other with wooden poles that are inches thick and break them on each others head and face for endurance.


This is a small example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qHL2PSpecI&feature=related

This is a few minutes of training that occurs all day long.

The "twenty minutes" thing was an exaggeration but their training in minuscule in comparison with training of beginner Monks. It's really no comparison.

I never said a Shoalin monk would fall from a few good punches, I said a trained boxer could land three punches in the time it takes a Shoalin monk to execute some form. Though a good boxer could likely KO one out with three solid hits.

Again, you're taking quantity over quality. Training for 15 hours a day in mostly useless (in a real fight) technics pales in comparison to training 4 hours in moves that all work (in a fight) and have been proven to work.

I've seen plenty of Shoalin monk feats, they are incredible athletes, but so was Bruce Lee, yet Chuck Liddell, Rany Coutre, Matt Hughes, PJ Penn and George Saint Pierre would have destroyed him and Shoalin monks.

Edit: Just watched that vid, Mike Tyson at his peak would have KO'd every single one of those fools in 10 seconds, then collected their ears, for a necklace.

Originally posted by Robtard
I never said a Shoalin monk would fall from a few good punches, I said a trained boxer could land three punches in the time it takes a Shoalin monk to execute some form. Though a good boxer could likely KO one out with three solid hits.

Again, you're taking quantity over quality. Training for 15 hours a day in mostly useless (in a real fight) technics pales in comparison to training 4 hours in moves that all work (in a fight) and have been proven to work.

I've seen plenty of Shoalin monk feats, they are incredible athletes, but so was Bruce Lee, yet Chuck Liddell, Rany Coutre, Matt Hughes, PJ Penn and George Saint Pierre would have destroyed him and Shoalin monks.

Edit: Just watched that vid, Mike Tyson at his peak would have KO'd every single one of those fools in 10 seconds, then collected their ears, for a necklace.

Then he'd eat their children's hearts.

(There endurance feats never covered taking hooks, uppercuts and overhand rights from 1972-1973 George Foreman.)

Have a look at Foreman/Frazier I or Foreman hitting that bag in Zaire.....those shaolins would be destroyed.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Then he'd eat their children's hearts.

They're monks, they don't ****, at least not women. Praise be Allah, though.

Originally posted by Robtard
They're monks, they don't ****, at least not women. Praise be Allah, though.

Shaolin monks can't have sex? No wonder they developed a way of kicking ass.

Ah in that case he would direclty proceed to eating their limbs wihich would be easy the second after either Big George or 80s Tyson has destroyed their torso with a bunch of sledgehammer hooks to the body.

Tyson would have had the speed to close range on a Shaolin Monk back in the day also.

They might even ingest their own testicles....

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Shaolin monks can't have sex? No wonder they developed a way of kicking ass.

Really depends of the school/monastery, but many don't, something about abstinence leading to a path of enlightenment and spiritual oneness. I don't know, they're Chinese.

Originally posted by Robtard
I never said a Shoalin monk would fall from a few good punches, I said a trained boxer could land three punches in the time it takes a Shoalin monk to execute some form. Though a good boxer could likely KO one out with three solid hits.

Okay, once again, the boxer needs to reach the Monk first. Monks have exceptional deflection skills and maintain distance. Their distance control is compared to that of the Krav Maga distance control. The styles are different but the distance control techniques are similar. The only thing that isn't parallel is the Shaolin Monk can utilize DC effectively with a single opponent. This means that the boxer has thrown three hits into air and probably has a footprint on his face by that point.



Wait, the Shaolin Monks haven't proven their techniques work? They fight competitively in sanctioned and unsanctioned matches. What is wrong with you, Robtard. The only thing useless is the UFC Sport training compared to the Monks training. It never ends. They constantly train. You cannot compare a job to someone who treats the art as if it is his entire composition. This isn't like comparing a pile of rotten candy to a few good ones. Your analysis of quality > quantity is shit in this scenario.

The fact that Shaolin Monks train longer gives them a larger opportunity to master their techniques and also to learn more.

Do you think the Shaolin Monks just train to dance? They're not practitioners of ballet. They're born fighting machines, are trained as children and grow into MA machines.



Oh my god. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

It's the other way around, Robtard. That is what you're failing to understand. UFC Fighters practice a sport. THEY are the athletes. Bruce Lee trained himself to subdue, defeat and destroy his opponents. Shaolin Monks are trained in a similar fashion.

I mean, MMA is listed as a combat sport. These fighters fight with rules, boundaries and are trained and chiseled in that specific manners. Shaolin Monks are trained without boundaries or rules. They're taught to eliminate threats in a short amount of time and, on the contrary, are trained to endure fights if they happen to fail defeating their opponent within seconds.

Also, SKF is one of the oldest and deadliest martial arts. It has been mastered countless times and has influenced even the MMA sport itself. Although, MMA is just a watered down mixture of Martial Arts that is utilized to generate a sport. Nothing more.



That's an absurd statement.

(NOTE: I apologize for the double post. I won't be replying for five days due to a flight to Calgary I'll be taking. I will reply when I get back if you decide to continue our debate. Cheers!)

Originally posted by Nephthys
The title pretty much explains itself. This is a single guy and I don't want any 'any soldier who does his duty' BS, it has to be a real person.

Round one- Personal achievements only (no points for leadership or anything others did for him/her)
Round two- Unrestricted.

I think Sun Tzu, Alexander and Mohammed are the three greatest military minds that ever existed.

The problem with Shaolin is that it's almost entirely a striking style. Pretty much all mixed disciplines are superior to it in an actual fight due simply to the amount of control they give one over the opponent. An individual Shaolin monk could certainly win against a MMA fighter but due to endurance and fitness not a superior fighting style.

Not to mention that nearly all modern Shaolin monks train as performers, not as actual fighters.

Originally posted by Genesis
Okay, once again, the boxer needs to reach the Monk first. Monks have exceptional deflection skills and maintain distance. Their distance control is compared to that of the Krav Maga distance control. The styles are different but the distance control techniques are similar. The only thing that isn't parallel is the Shaolin Monk can utilize DC effectively with a single opponent. This means that the boxer has thrown three hits into air and probably has a footprint on his face by that point.



Wait, the Shaolin Monks haven't proven their techniques work? They fight competitively in sanctioned and unsanctioned matches. What is wrong with you, Robtard. The only thing useless is the UFC Sport training compared to the Monks training. It never ends. They constantly train. You cannot compare a job to someone who treats the art as if it is his entire composition. This isn't like comparing a pile of rotten candy to a few good ones. Your analysis of quality > quantity is shit in this scenario.

The fact that Shaolin Monks train longer gives them a larger opportunity to master their techniques and also to learn more.

Do you think the Shaolin Monks just train to dance? They're not practitioners of ballet. They're born fighting machines, are trained as children and grow into MA machines.



Oh my god. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

It's the other way around, Robtard. That is what you're failing to understand. UFC Fighters practice a sport. THEY are the athletes. Bruce Lee trained himself to subdue, defeat and destroy his opponents. Shaolin Monks are trained in a similar fashion.

I mean, MMA is listed as a combat sport. These fighters fight with rules, boundaries and are trained and chiseled in that specific manners. Shaolin Monks are trained without boundaries or rules. They're taught to eliminate threats in a short amount of time and, on the contrary, are trained to endure fights if they happen to fail defeating their opponent within seconds.

Also, SKF is one of the oldest and deadliest martial arts. It has been mastered countless times and has influenced even the MMA sport itself. Although, MMA is just a watered down mixture of Martial Arts that is utilized to generate a sport. Nothing more.



That's an absurd statement.

Boxers train to keep distance and close in when they're ready with the right strike. Surely an astute of fighting such as yourself knows this, as it's basic boxing?

Fighting for sport is historically against Shoalon discipline, they're monks first and taught themselves martial for the purposes of self defense from brigands while they travelled, they don't train for the sake of "kicking ass".

Show me where Shoalin technique has been proven? You claimed it, show it, matches etc. Because I have tons on modern MMA.

Mastering a technique that doesn't translate well into real time fighting is worthless. Being able to jump and throw a spinning kick is one thing, giving the board the ability to dodge and counter is another.

Saying that UFC guys don't train to destroy their opponents despite the more than ample video documentation, is what is ridiculous. You really think arm-bars, choking until submission and dropping elbows unto a mounted opponent isn't "destruction", really?

Listen, MMA fighters of today take what works best in fighting in the varied forms and apply it, do you think there's a reason you don't see a flying, spinning back kick in MMA often? I'll tell you, because it leaves you open. They take from boxing, Muy Thai, Jui Jit Su, Greco Roman Wrestling etc. why do you think there isn't any Shoalin adaptation, if it's supposed to be as unbeatable as you think? Just answer that.

No, thinking a boxer with Tyson's strength and speed wouldn't KO a bunch of 140 pound guys is rediculous. Have you seen footage of Tyson's punching and combination speed when he was peak? It's dizzying.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The problem with Shaolin is that it's almost entirely a striking style. Pretty much all mixed disciplines are superior to it in an actual fight due simply to the amount of control they give one over the opponent. An individual Shaolin monk could certainly win against a MMA fighter but due to endurance and fitness not a superior fighting style.

Not to mention that nearly all modern Shaolin monks train as performers, not as actual fighters.

While they certainly have a strikers chance, you really think their endurance is going to last them until the MMA fighter tires, lands a ko or gets a grapple more times than not? BTW, there are plenty of MA fighters who train vigorously in high altitude to boost their endurance.

Another good point.

Originally posted by Robtard
While they certainly have a strikers chance, you really think their endurance is going to last them until the MMA fighter tires, lands a ko or gets a grapple more times than not? BTW, there are plenty of MA fighters who train vigorously in high altitude to boost their endurance.

I think that for someone who's spent most of their life training like Shaolin monks supposedly did/do it would be possible. Then again I'm not an expert on combat or physiology.



Here's a good explanation of why Shaolin doesn't beat MMA.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090603022705AAs1yi8

Originally posted by Robtard
Boxers train to keep distance and close in when they're ready with the right strike. Surely an astute of fighting such as yourself knows this, as it's basic boxing?

Fighting for sport is historically against Shoalon discipline, they're monks first and taught themselves martial for the purposes of self defense from brigands while they travelled, they don't train for the sake of "kicking ass".

Show me where Shoalin technique has been proven? You claimed it, show it, matches etc. Because I have tons on modern MMA.

Mastering a technique that doesn't translate well into real time fighting is worthless. Being able to jump and throw a spinning kick is one thing, giving the board the ability to dodge and counter is another.

Saying that UFC guys don't train to destroy their opponents despite the more than ample video documentation, is what is ridiculous. You really think arm-bars, choking until submission and dropping elbows unto a mounted opponent isn't "destruction", really?

Listen, MMA fighters of today take what works best in fighting in the varied forms and apply it, do you think there's a reason you don't see a flying, spinning back kick in MMA often? I'll tell you, because it leaves you open. They take from boxing, Muy Thai, Jui Jit Su, Greco Roman Wrestling etc. why do you think there isn't any Shoalin adaptation, if it's supposed to be as unbeatable as you think? Just answer that.

No, thinking a boxer with Tyson's strength and speed wouldn't KO a bunch of 140 pound guys is rediculous. Have you seen footage of Tyson's punching and combination speed when he was peak? It's dizzying.

Indeed. The Shaolin Posse would do well to look up Spinks, Berbick, Holmes, Bruno and see what Tyson did to those 6ft3+ piles of 16-18 stone killing machines.

To question him banging out a welterweight is crazy.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

Here's a good explanation of why Shaolin doesn't mean MMA.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090603022705AAs1yi8

Basically what I said above, just longer and far more detailed.

Originally posted by Robtard
They take from boxing, Muy Thai, Jui Jit Su, Greco Roman Wrestling etc. why do you think there isn't any Shoalin adaptation, if it's supposed to be as unbeatable as you think? Just answer that.


UFC fans like to think that Kung Fu is useless, just because no pro-fighter uses it. See, Kung Fu was made for warfare, not competive sport/fan-pleasing. It was intended for fending off multiple attackers with weapons. If four guys with baseball bats and broken bottles are coming at you, trying to put one of them in an armbar wouldn't be very smart. Monkey or Drunken would be more better for that situation.

Another reason why you don't see Kung Fu in UFC is because using nails is banned, which automatically shuts out a lot of Kung Fu styles. Look at Tiger, Dragon and Praying Mantis techniques; they're mosty fingers to the face and eyes.

Kung Fu isn't over two thousand years old for no reason.

Originally posted by Robtard
Total nonsense, by the time it takes them to execute some animal move, a trained boxer can easily jab them twice in the face and follow it up with a nice uppercut.

Most MMA fighters will stomp them, be it UFC, Pride or other.

^total ignorance of kungfu. *hint* it isnt REALLY like they show it in the movies. boxing is a major part of it. kung fu practitioners dont SHOW off in fights {other than those who do demonstration}.

Aikido and Kung Fu are some of the martial arts that are banned in MMA.

Aikido due to the fact it can snap joints that could potentially lead to permanent disability.
Kung Fu because of the use of eye-rakes, throat thrusts, and other deadly pressure point strikes.


Here's some good stamina and durability feats from Shaolin Kung Fu:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17g_cjcKafk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?index=1&playnext_from=PL&feature=PlayList&p=67E8DA8AC55893A3&v=MAhSSy4_7mc&playnext=1

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Aikido and Kung Fu are some of the martial arts that are banned in MMA.

Aikido due to the fact it can snap joints that could potentially lead to permanent disability.
Kung Fu because of the use of eye-rakes, throat thrusts, and other deadly pressure point strikes.

No style is banned in typical MMA or related sports venues.

Aikido is a rarity because it is ineffective. What it accomplishes only in theory is demonstrated in practice by better styles such as judo or wrestling.

As for the Kung Fu nonsense spouted by so many, pressure points strikes are legal in nearly every full contact rule set. Throat thrusts are legal in various Vale Tudo circuits. Some even allow eye raking.

Either style has yet to produce notable fighters even when these supposed "deadly" techniques are allowed.
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
UFC fans like to think that Kung Fu is useless, just because no pro-fighter uses it. See, Kung Fu was made for warfare, not competitive sport/fan-pleasing. It was intended for fending off multiple attackers with weapons. If four guys with baseball bats and broken bottles are coming at you, trying to put one of them in an armbar wouldn't be very smart. Monkey or Drunken would be more better for that situation.

Another reason why you don't see Kung Fu in UFC is because using nails is banned, which automatically shuts out a lot of Kung Fu styles. Look at Tiger, Dragon and Praying Mantis techniques; they're mosty fingers to the face and eyes.

Kung Fu isn't over two thousand years old for no reason.
Most combat forms were made for, not so surprisingly, killing and maiming. It's not something unique to Kung Fu my comrade. In a multiple opponent scenario, the lone fighter is at a disadvantage regardless of style. However, the key to defeating multiple opponents efficiently is the ability to defeat single opponents efficiently. This is something with which Kung Fu has a terrible track record.

UFC isn't the only organization out there. Many allow nail attacks, yet these Tiger and Dragon masters are notably absent from the list of successful fighters.

So in conclusion: The superior technique can only be proven if a Shaolin Monk goes toe-to-toe against an expert MMA?


Meh. IMHO strike attacks are far more effective than grapple attacks (in real-world circumstances, especially if you're fighting groups or a tough slugger. Groin kick and throat punch FTW).

Strike and grapple attacks are better than just striking.

^
I guess you've never been in a brawl fight before

Try grappling one member, the others would beat the shit out of you.
It takes too much time, enough time for others to give you a beating.

That's why I just do a running clothesline or super kicks lol. Grapples are only good in 1-on-1 situations. Well... actually, it isn't. If your opponent has a melee weapon, you have to strike him asap.
In cases like these, a lightning-fast strike attack should be performed. Preferrably a groin kick, a jab to the throat, an eye poke, etc.

so, hey guys, you know a samurai can cut through the barrel of an AK-47 with his magic swords?

Originally posted by inimalist
so, hey guys, you know a samurai can cut through the barrel of an AK-47 with his magic swords?

where did you hear that? was it on myth busters? 'cause if it wasnt i aint buying it.

more just a comment about how we in the west tend to orientalize most Asian things. Samurai swords are a good example, because even well educated scholars in history will believe things like swords cutting gun metal, just because they are "ooooooh, oriental swords".

I could rant, but I wont, suffice to say, its based on old impressions of the "other" in Europe, where those from the east were seen as mystic and wise. Its totally alive in our society today, just look at herbal medicine and this shaolin nonsense

Originally posted by inimalist
so, hey guys, you know a samurai can cut through the barrel of an AK-47 with his magic swords?

I guess if he has a fvcking magic sword we should expect things like that.

Originally posted by inimalist
more just a comment about how we in the west tend to orientalize most Asian things. Samurai swords are a good example, because even well educated scholars in history will believe things like swords cutting gun metal, just because they are "ooooooh, oriental swords".

I could rant, but I wont, suffice to say, its based on old impressions of the "other" in Europe, where those from the east were seen as mystic and wise. Its totally alive in our society today, just look at herbal medicine and this shaolin nonsense

G&S did it for you when they noted that no one would miss...

The idiot who praises, with enthusiastic tone
All centuries but this, and every country but his own

i changed my mind about the gun barrel thing.. thinking about it a sharp enough sword should be able to slice a aluminum barrel.

that doesnt mean some samurai will get close enough to do it though.

cutting through gun barrels isnt a very impresive feat, smooth grain, reletively soft etc. its meant to take impact, not cutting. did u know that u can very easily pierce a bullet proof vest with a jab from a screwdriver? even the hardiest steel spears and javalins and swords are cut and broken all the time on the battlefield. nuthing "magical" about it. cutting a small rock and or large pebble though, thats sumthing id like to see a samurai try without breaking their katana.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^total ignorance of kungfu. *hint* it isnt REALLY like they show it in the movies. boxing is a major part of it. kung fu practitioners dont SHOW off in fights {other than those who do demonstration}.

There's a reason for it, because they'd get their ass kicked ina real fight against a trained boxer or MMA fighter.

Jason Delucia tried to bring Kung Fu in the early days of the UFC, when it wasn't all MMA guys and there were very few rules to what what you could or couldn't do. He got his ass stomped. As did the Karate people.

BTW, whatever you think you know about Kung Fu and other the other martial arts, multiply that by 3.12247 times and that's how much I know.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
UFC fans like to think that Kung Fu is useless, just because no pro-fighter uses it. See, Kung Fu was made for warfare, not competive sport/fan-pleasing. It was intended for fending off multiple attackers with weapons. If four guys with baseball bats and broken bottles are coming at you, trying to put one of them in an armbar wouldn't be very smart. Monkey or Drunken would be more better for that situation.

Another reason why you don't see Kung Fu in UFC is because using nails is banned, which automatically shuts out a lot of Kung Fu styles. Look at Tiger, Dragon and Praying Mantis techniques; they're mosty fingers to the face and eyes.

Kung Fu isn't over two thousand years old for no reason.

Never said it was useless, as training is training and that's a plus, if anything, for the physical aspect of it.

Kung Fu also relies heavily on the use of weapons, which then makes it useful and downright deadly. Adds fluidity and strict control to the strikes.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
So in conclusion: The superior technique can only be proven if a Shaolin Monk goes toe-to-toe against an expert MMA?


Meh. IMHO strike attacks are far more effective than grapple attacks (in real-world circumstances, especially if you're fighting groups or a tough slugger. Groin kick and throat punch FTW).
Is that the only way? Of course not. Would it help if a kung fu stylist was successful in something other than movies and staged performances? Of course it would.

Neither really has an inherent superiority over the other; however, you don't seem to understand how easily and quickly a skilled grappler would dismantle your average schmoe in a street brawl.
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Try grappling one member, the others would beat the shit out of you.
It takes too much time, enough time for others to give you a beating.
Grapples are only good in 1-on-1 situations. Well... actually, it isn't. If your opponent has a melee weapon, you have to strike him asap.
In cases like these, a lightning-fast strike attack should be performed. Preferrably a groin kick, a jab to the throat, an eye poke, etc.
Not necessarily. Firstly, most people have utterly no idea how to grapple or defend themselves against a grappler. A submission artist would be able to quickly break limbs without much effort against unskilled people. The reason the grappling portion of MMA fights are drawn out is because bother combatants are skilled enough to defend themselves.

If your opponents are skilled themselves, you will likely lose whether you are striking or grappling.
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
That's why I just do a running clothesline
A running clothesline is a grappling move.

As for the ridiculous melee weapon analogy, striking would not be the automatic best bet. Having a weapon significantly increases your opponents what? Yep. His reach. The last thing you'd want to do against a weapon is give your opponent space to swing at you. At least if you're in grappling range, you can negate the weapon's power. After that, start breaking body parts.

Before you get into even more predictable kung fu/striking rocks arguments, I'll address the edged weapon scenario. When you're opponent has a knife, you're ****ed either way. The human body has no way to block or otherwise deflect an edged weapon. The best martial art in this scenario is track and field.

You appear to have a very limited view on what constitutes grappling. A "grappler" does not necessarily have to roll around on the ground to grapple. I reckon a judoka or wrestler could take an opponent out quite quickly without going to the ground. Throwing or slamming someone's head onto concrete does wonders for ending a fight.
Originally posted by inimalist
so, hey guys, you know a samurai can cut through the barrel of an AK-47 with his magic swords?
Those are only the pansy, rookie samurai. Jin Uzuki cut a giant robot in half in Xenosaga Episode II.
Originally posted by Robtard
Kung Fu also relies heavily on the use of weapons, which then makes it useful and downright deadly. Adds fluidity and strict control to the strikes.
I have a feeling that even the weapons based styles that the old school Chinese used looked remarkably similar to western disciplines.

Alexander the Great

Gotta love how things have gotten completely off-topic.

you can blame all the myth fanboys for that who have no knowledge of actual real life ppl of their century.

So who was the greatest soldier of the last 9 years?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
So who was the greatest soldier of the last 9 years?

General ****ing Petraeus, man has one arm, one arm. Almost as epic as Def Leopard.

Simo "White Death" Hayha.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
So who was the greatest soldier of the last 9 years?

how about my friend PFC Pinkston who was in iraq on convoy security, he was caught by an IED, a few miles out of our base gate. his vehicle flipped and was pinned down due to a harness he was wearing and the fact that he was manning the 50 cal on top of his vehicle. he lost his arm and the side of his body was crushed he held on for about two weeks before passing away. he had bn enthusiastic about being a marine and in less then a yr was in iraq being a real warrior.


he didnt have 100 kills under his name he never fired his wpn at the enemy. what he did was patrol and protect his convoy from enemy attacks and suspicious looking roads and streets. he had bn doing it for well over 4 months and had two months left for his tour to finish and go home to his family. during that time he had stopped his convoy at three separate occasion saving the lives of his unit from IED attacks.

he was one of those marines that you didnt have to order to do his job b/c he was already on it. many marines teased him b/c he had just turned 19 and had joined right out of high school and wasnt muscle bound like all the other stereo type jock marines. he use to follow me to the gym always seeking to improve himself as a marine and as a man always trying to escape the fact that he was just a teenager.

he died a man and as a warrior he saw what other ppl never will, not just war but other countries and ppl from all walks of life.

i think the problem here is that many of you romanticizes what it is to be a hero and you throw your video games and movie heroes and think its cool and funny but you no squat what is to be one. their are countless ppl that have real extraordinary feats from climbing a side of a mountain and taking the enemies position to an iraq Ssgt taking 8 shots and a grenade to protect his lcpl clearing the room and dragging his men to safety before passing away those ppl are heroes.

not some 2 thousand yr samurai who exist only in myths, or your game console.

im going to profile that because its the truest thing ive read on this site in weeks.

even if youre lying about your friend (not saying you are), youre absolutely correct.

Originally posted by WO Polaski
im going to profile that because its the truest thing ive read on this site in weeks.

even if youre lying about your friend (not saying you are), youre absolutely correct.

you want to know the sad part? i went to three different memorials but i dont remember a single one of their names, what i have are pamphlets with their name, picture and history/ military record in my shadow box. sometimes its too hard to hold on to those memories or even want to.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't want any 'any soldier who does his duty' BS, it has to be a real person.B] Don't wanna be a jackass...




Just sayin.'

Anyone who doesn't answer Chinggis Khan in both scenarios knows nothing of history.

Genghis, is the preferred spelling.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Anyone who doesn't answer Chinggis Khan in both scenarios knows nothing of history.

Airports aren't people.

Originally posted by Robtard
Genghis, is the preferred spelling. I always heard it as Chinggis, but both are acceptable I guess.

No one has ever come close to what he accomplished.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
I always heard it as Chinggis, but both are acceptable I guess.

No one has ever come close to what he accomplished.

I guess.

What exactly are you referring to?

Land conquered in terms of total land mass. I thought everyone knew that.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Land conquered in terms of total land mass. I thought everyone knew that.

Alexander The Great and Napoleon are very close. Also, it's up to debate how much of the Mongol empire was really conquered, especially the Northern parts.

I'll give you that, not to mention that Khan roughly had the same amount of cultural influence that Alexander did, just in more subtle ways. Not to mention that Khan propegated his genes moreso than anyone else in history. That has to count for something.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
I'll give you that, not to mention that Khan roughly had the same amount of cultural influence that Alexander did, just in more subtle ways. Not to mention that Khan propegated his genes moreso than anyone else in history. That has to count for something.

Questionable, as Alexander arguably conquered a larger diversity of people.

There's some cat in Africa who has father over 90 children.

But Genghis was a total bad-ass.

Yup, pretty much.

8% of all Asian men share Khans Y chromosome, btw.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Yup, pretty much.

8% of all Asian men share Khans Y chromosome, btw.

That sounds like fanciful bullshit, sir. Considering Genghis was buried in secret and his tomb has yet to be found, so where is the definitive DNA sample for testing?

I'm thinking it's nothing more than a 120(+/-) million Asians trying to feel better about themselves, probably due to their smaller penile size.

Like how Americans love to claim they're 1/80th Cherokee or Sioux.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Yup, pretty much.

8% of all Asian men share Khans Y chromosome, btw.

Or that of someone from his hordes.

Also, people don't share the entire Y chromosome.

There's very strong circumstansial evidence. Originally it was assumed that only 8% of male Mongolians shared his heritage, but some genticists crossed referenced and found there were about 15 million more who also matched. Anyway, we're veering off topic.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
There's very strong circumstansial evidence. Originally it was assumed that only 8% of male Mongolians shared his heritage, but some genticists crossed referenced and found there were about 15 million more who also matched. Anyway, we're veering off topic.

Like what? Considering there isn't a sample of his DNA.

8% of Mongols + 15m doesn't equate to 8% of the total Asian population.

Yeah, but you started it.

Originally posted by Robtard
Like what? Considering there isn't a sample of his DNA.

8% of Mongols + 15m doesn't equate to 8% of the total Asian population.

I'm sure he means that they looked at 15m guys and 8% matched that's a more than large enough sample.

http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2007/05/21/famous-dna-review-part-ii-%E2%80%93-genghis-khan/

This is the only link I could find that talks about the subject. I could have swore reading about it in some other journal than the one mentioned.


Anyways, Khan is my choice to be top tier warrior.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'm sure he means that they looked at 15m guys and 8% matched that's a more than large enough sample. Well as the saying goes, don't expect a KMC poster to have definitive evidence in something that isn't his area.

My uncle Harold. 38 confirmed kills at the Battle of Daejeon, 14 using a pistol, 2 with his bare hands.

Originally posted by KidRock
My uncle Harold. 38 confirmed kills at the Battle of Daejeon, 14 using a pistol, 2 with his bare hands.

You suck at math.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You suck at math.

smart@$$ pissed


tell me have you found a heroic soldier of the last 9 yrs?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
tell me have you found a heroic soldier of the last 9 yrs?

Haven't really been looking. It would be hard to find one, people very rarely become well known legends in their own generation.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow


Johnson Beharry

1st recipient of the Victoria cross in over 20 years.

Originally posted by Robtard
That sounds like fanciful bullshit, sir. Considering Genghis was buried in secret and his tomb has yet to be found, so where is the definitive DNA sample for testing?

I'm thinking it's nothing more than a 120(+/-) million Asians trying to feel better about themselves, probably due to their smaller penile size.

Like how Americans love to claim they're 1/80th Cherokee or Sioux.

The American Journal of Human Genetics published an article on it claiming the same thing given how well documented

http://www.cell.com/AJHG/abstract/S0002-9297(07)60587-4

The abstact from the study.

nj1Jytiw8e0
9mJBUc74cBo

THAT GUY ;D!

Haha of course I kid but that's impressive XD

Ummm...well Kamehameha the Great, conquered the Hawaiian Islands and established the Kingdom of Hawaii...but I highly doubt he takes this..

Audie Murphy...nah

Big Boss..wait a second ;/...

Well...William Marshal was a knight ^-^.......nah :/...

it must be

Pat Tillman ftw =DDD

Can't help but think that chopping a mushroom in half would be pretty a pretty useless skill in a war.

Unless you're Casey Ryback

Pfft, I would total "pwn" that guy in Samurai Shodown, being Jubie, just be a matter of forward-arc down and the heavy attack button, fool wouldn't know what hit him.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Yup, pretty much.

8% of all Asian men share Khans Y chromosome, btw. I saw that on history channel. Have 50 kids who each have 50 kids and that makes like...







THIS many!

guile

captain america

cable

are the best soldiers ever