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Kaioh from Fist of the North Star, against his younger brother, Raoh.

Who wins?

Kaioh has his evil aura.

I thought Raoh was older. Kaioh wins because Raoh died before he could fully master the Musou Tensei.

Kaioh should win. Good fight though

Correcting myself. Raoh is younger.

Kaioh wins. That guy defeated Kenshiro with ease before. And that Kenshiro is at least on par with Raoh and already mastered musou tensei. Even Kaioh defeated Kenshiro's musou tensei with his own power unlike Raoh who need to mastered musou tensei to fight musou tensei.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
Kaioh wins. That guy defeated Kenshiro with ease before. And that Kenshiro is at least on par with Raoh and already mastered musou tensei. Even Kaioh defeated Kenshiro's musou tensei with his own power unlike Raoh who need to mastered musou tensei to fight musou tensei. za

That Kenshiro was way above Raoh. That and Kaioh beat the unmastered version of Musou Tensei, Kenshiro came back and fought while in a coma.

bumped

Kaioh still wins unless Raoh can get inventive like Ken and counter the Anryu Tenha

Just read the manga up to Kaioh's defeat, and a little past that.

There's no proof Kenshiro "mastered" Muso Tensei, because he doesn't use it after his first fight with Kaioh. And personally, I think Kenshiro could have defeated Kaioh after his first loss to him, but before he absorbed the knowledge.. It was at that point that he learned how to defeat the Anryu Tenha, or the space distorting ki.

The thing is, Raoh isn't Kenshiro.. Kenshiro usually relied on finesse over brute force, since it was so much more efficient to one shot pressure point an opponent. Raoh is just as likely to attack with overwhelming force and bludgeon his opponent to death, as he is to use pressure point attacks (Which is a tactic Kenshiro uncharacteristically reverted to in his fight with Hyou).

I think Raoh can figure out the Anryu Tenha. Partly because he's a quick enough study, and also unlike Kenshiro, Raoh was in contact with Kaioh, and the man who trained Kaioh was prepared to help Raoh and seemed certain he could defeat Kaioh, so he probably would have had some idea of Raioh's capability.

Hmm, as of the Fanatic arc, Kenshiro admits Raoh's fist surpassed his, and to stop an ever growing escalation of violence, he let himself be defeated by Kenshiro's fist.

Buronson has a pretty big obsession with Raoh. It was pretty obvious with the constant flashbacks and how he keeps popping up in every story arc, and now this "retcon", where Kenshiro was weaker all along, and it was Raoh's love that made him take a loss...

Yeah, the more I read it, the more I'm convinced Kaioh is no stronger Raoh clone..

He's a Souther clone. Basically, he's a one trick pony, with his trick being the demonic aura that confuses/disables his opponent. Defeat the aura, and you can defeat Kaioh.

And like I said, Kenshiro didn't even know Kaioh existed (Aside from knowing Raoh had a brother, but that's all he knew), while Raoh not only knew he existed, but he had informants on the island. And his intelligence has usually been good.. Remember, he knew better than to fight Souther, while Kenshiro had to find out the hard way.

None of this is hard evidence though.. I can respect arguments that Kaioh is >>> Raoh, but I'm willing to give Raoh the benefit of the doubt. This is the same character that figured out how to counter Kenshiro's ultimate technique. Granted, he still lost, but it wasn't because of superior techniques. On the contrary, their final fight degenerated into a brawl, which Kenshiro won because of mental factors, and not physical..

Originally posted by cdtm
Just read the manga up to Kaioh's defeat, and a little past that.

There's no proof Kenshiro "mastered" Muso Tensei, because he doesn't use it after his first fight with Kaioh. And personally, I think Kenshiro could have defeated Kaioh after his first loss to him, but before he absorbed the knowledge.. It was at that point that he learned how to defeat the Anryu Tenha, or the space distorting ki.

The thing is, Raoh isn't Kenshiro.. Kenshiro usually relied on finesse over brute force, since it was so much more efficient to one shot pressure point an opponent. Raoh is just as likely to attack with overwhelming force and bludgeon his opponent to death, as he is to use pressure point attacks (Which is a tactic Kenshiro uncharacteristically reverted to in his fight with Hyou).

I think Raoh can figure out the Anryu Tenha. Partly because he's a quick enough study, and also unlike Kenshiro, Raoh was in contact with Kaioh, and the man who trained Kaioh was prepared to help Raoh and seemed certain he could defeat Kaioh, so he probably would have had some idea of Raioh's capability. Originally posted by cdtm
Yeah, the more I read it, the more I'm convinced Kaioh is no stronger Raoh clone..

He's a Souther clone. Basically, he's a one trick pony, with his trick being the demonic aura that confuses/disables his opponent. Defeat the aura, and you can defeat Kaioh.

And like I said, Kenshiro didn't even know Kaioh existed (Aside from knowing Raoh had a brother, but that's all he knew), while Raoh not only knew he existed, but he had informants on the island. And his intelligence has usually been good.. Remember, he knew better than to fight Souther, while Kenshiro had to find out the hard way.

None of this is hard evidence though.. I can respect arguments that Kaioh is >>> Raoh, but I'm willing to give Raoh the benefit of the doubt. This is the same character that figured out how to counter Kenshiro's ultimate technique. Granted, he still lost, but it wasn't because of superior techniques. On the contrary, their final fight degenerated into a brawl, which Kenshiro won because of mental factors, and not physical..

Raoh is not so smart and quick to learn as you may think because he was afraid to fight Souther knowing that he could not beat him without knowing his secret. He couldn't find that out on his own so there's little to no evidence about him being able to counter Kaioh.

Raoh didn't choose to not fight Souther simply because HSK doesn't work on him, he did it because he knew that in a straight slugfest with Souther would likely end in both of their deaths if not Souther killing him due to his body's physiology. Kenshiro and Toki both found out, Ken found out through fighting him and acted accordingly so I don't see what you mean when you say that he had to find out the hard way.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix

Raoh didn't choose to not fight Souther simply because HSK doesn't work on him, he did it because he knew that in a straight slugfest with Souther would likely end in both of their deaths if not Souther killing him due to his body's physiology. Kenshiro and Toki both found out, Ken found out through fighting him and acted accordingly so I don't see what you mean when you say that he had to find out the hard way.

I mean, that Raoh knew about Southers trick. When he monologues about Kenshiro's skill and strength advantages, he also mentions an X factor that gives Souther the edge. Of course, he couldn't outright say what the edge was because the fight with Kenshiro hadn't happened yet and the fans needed to be kept in the dark about Souther, but from his words we can infer he had advanced intelligence on Southers capabilities (Since it was never said that they fought).

Kenshiro is a wandering fighter, Raoh is a general trying to take over the world. It stands to reason he wouldn't go into a fight with Kaioh without first knowing what he's up against, which is an inferrance backed up by the manga (Such as the man that traveled overseas to warn Raoh about Kaioh, or the fact Raoh visited Kaioh himself to see the happens on the island.) Also, I don't see Raoh using Kenshiro to defeat Souther as a bad thing.. Rather, it's a credit to his intelligence, letting his rival do the dirty work instead of putting his own life at risk. And lets not pretend Kenshiro was initially successful, or didn't need aid..

Anyways, there's other examples of Raoh's tactical capabilities.. Recognizing Toki's trick in their final battle, for one. Figuring out a counter to Juzza's ultimate technique, disabling his shoulders and hands at the exact moment he's performing it. Not to mention, figuring out Musou Tensei shortly after Kenshiro.

Kenshiro and Raoh seemed about even for the most part during their arc, with victory depending on mental states more than raw ability or skill. If Raoh had been the victor and was still hungry for conquoring the world, I don't see why he couldn't learn how to defeat Kaioh as Kenshiro did, especially considering unlike Ken, Raoh had a network of men in place on the island to help him in his conquests.

Originally posted by cdtm
I mean, that Raoh knew about Southers trick. When he monologues about Kenshiro's skill and strength advantages, he also mentions an X factor that gives Souther the edge. Of course, he couldn't outright say what the edge was because the fight with Kenshiro hadn't happened yet and the fans needed to be kept in the dark about Souther, but from his words we can infer he had advanced intelligence on Southers capabilities (Since it was never said that they fought).

Kenshiro is a wandering fighter, Raoh is a general trying to take over the world. It stands to reason he wouldn't go into a fight with Kaioh without first knowing what he's up against, which is an inferrance backed up by the manga (Such as the man that traveled overseas to warn Raoh about Kaioh, or the fact Raoh visited Kaioh himself to see the happens on the island.) Also, I don't see Raoh using Kenshiro to defeat Souther as a bad thing.. Rather, it's a credit to his intelligence, letting his rival do the dirty work instead of putting his own life at risk. And lets not pretend Kenshiro was initially successful, or didn't need aid..

Anyways, there's other examples of Raoh's tactical capabilities.. Recognizing Toki's trick in their final battle, for one. Figuring out a counter to Juzza's ultimate technique, disabling his shoulders and hands at the exact moment he's performing it. Not to mention, figuring out Musou Tensei shortly after Kenshiro.

Kenshiro and Raoh seemed about even for the most part during their arc, with victory depending on mental states more than raw ability or skill. If Raoh had been the victor and was still hungry for conquoring the world, I don't see why he couldn't learn how to defeat Kaioh as Kenshiro did, especially considering unlike Ken, Raoh had a network of men in place on the island to help him in his conquests.

Dude if Raoh knew his secret then he would've fought and beat him. You don't think Raoh could get a hit in on him and strike a pressure point even when Kenshiro was able to do it? He did not know Souther's secret, this is a fact.

No one is saying Ken didn't need help but you're trying to make it seem like Raoh's plan was to just sit by and let them fight. Everyone that stood before Raoh was crushed by Raoh's hand, Souther was someone that stood before him and Raoh wasn't able to beat him and stuck to skirmishes with him between their armies at best.

Figuring out Toki's trick and countering Juuza isn't that big of an accomplishment seeing as any of the three brothers could've done the same given their skill. Figuring something out AFTER Kenshiro is not better than being the first to discover it.

Raoh wins how Raoh proved he is powerful than kenshiro and kenshiro admit it I know that kenshiro won the final battle against raoh but the fact raoh let him because he gave his half powers to save yuria from death. And ken admit it that without giving his powers kenshiro will lose because when he asked Raoh about that raoh doesn't answer and smiled . The fact is Raoh proved he's powerful than ken and sothuer because souther defeat kenshiro with ease because kenshiro doesn't know about his secret but when souther fought raoh they equal,even when raoh doesn't know about souther secret also souther admitted that raoh with his simple punch can effect souther pressure secret point . So this fact proved raoh stronger than both , don't forget that everyone admitted that Raoh save asura island and they right kenshiro equal to hyoh his brother that mean Raoh most be equal to kaioh also Raoh know about Kaioh and he will find the secret of hokuto before facing Kaioh, you people think that Raoh was afraid of souther but you are wrong he was not prepared because he He was wounded from his fight against Kenshiro and also did not have an army to invade Souther. He knew the secret of Souther after he fought him, and do not forget Souther, he admitted that his fist affected him so how could he be afraid of him if he knew a secret? Rather, fate was the reason not to fight Souther.The proof is that he did not make Kenshiro die in the desert and told him that destiny is not here.Your destiny is with me R can defeat Kaioh because he proved to be stronger than Kenshiro ً And Souther and Falco, and if Kenshiro is equivalent to his brother, they saw him equal to his brother as well.