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Wally West.

Hand to hand only.

Go.

You're my favourite poster.

after Bran

Is Wally allowed to steal speed, or use all his speed??

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
No speed stealing.
Either way, SS losses.

just h2h? again, flash's punching power stems from the momentum he gains by his overwhelming speed. if they are fighting same frame of speed or close to it, wally's punches won't do a thing to ss. even if he landed a 10,000 to ss's 1, his 10 000 wouldn't do jack to someone with ss's durability, and ss's one would disintegrate flash.

You heard it gentlemen. Surfer is capable of fighting h2h at the same frame of speed as Flash so that 10000 punches wouldn't do anything to Surfer who then lands one and owns Flash.

I'll E-slap anybody who ever says that this board is DC biased.

Originally posted by leonidas
just h2h? again, flash's punching power stems from the momentum he gains by his overwhelming speed. if they are fighting same frame of speed or close to it, wally's punches won't do a thing to ss. even if he landed a 10,000 to ss's 1, his 10 000 wouldn't do jack to someone with ss's durability, and ss's one would disintegrate flash.

What if Wally puts SS in an arm-bar? sneer

i think he's saying that if they are both moving faster than light side by side (as many fights play out by fast characters), the punches the flash would land on surfer wouldn't be the same as they would be to a slow-stationary opponent, he would lose out even further due to surfer's natural superior durability against a human fist.

--------------------------------------------------

imo. surfer would be able to percieve the flash's movements at high speed, but on the off chance he gets hurt by a flash blitz (provided he's near the ground) and not ko'd, flash wouldn't be able to pull off a second one.

Originally posted by leonidas
just h2h? again, flash's punching power stems from the momentum he gains by his overwhelming speed. if they are fighting same frame of speed or close to it, wally's punches won't do a thing to ss. even if he landed a 10,000 to ss's 1, his 10 000 wouldn't do jack to someone with ss's durability, and ss's one would disintegrate flash. all punching power stems from momentum technically...

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i think he's saying that if they are both moving faster than light side by side (as many fights play out by fast characters), the punches the flash would land on surfer wouldn't be the same as they would be to a slow-stationary opponent, he would lose out even further due to surfer's natural superior durability against a human fist. no...if this was true and surfer was capable of such...then he could do the same to anyone's punches, not just flashes

^ not many people punch surfer without super strength and durability.
flash needs his speed to cause massive impact.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
^ not many people punch surfer without super strength and durability.
flash needs his speed to cause massive impact.
For real. If She Hulk hurt her hand on Surfer then I think that Flash is going to end up with some busted knuckles if the excess speed is taken away...

Flash wins. As long as it's Wally or Bart.

Barry would get bent over. uhuh

Originally posted by Enyalus
Flash wins. As long as it's Wally or Bart.

Barry would get bent over. uhuh

Don't you have a penis to eat somewhere? ahah

Originally posted by psycho gundam
^ not many people punch surfer without super strength and durability.
flash needs his speed to cause massive impact.

indeed.

Originally posted by leonidas


you're . . . having some trouble today, eh? anywho, see gundam's reply. as far as the dc bias--you want a dc guy to win, stop pitting them against guys who are out of their league.

if you seriously don't think ss can fight in or near the same frame of speed as flash, you, well . . . shrug

as a normal guy (which is what flash would be when fighting someone who is traveling near his OWN speed) flash could land a million blows and it wouldn't mean jack to surfer. meanwhile, ss only needs to hit him one and it's over.
Didn't you hear? Surfer speed and reflexes gets cut exponentially when he's off his board .

Originally posted by darthgoober
Didn't you hear? Surfer speed and reflexes gets cut exponentially when he's off his board . ohno

Originally posted by darthgoober
Didn't you hear? Surfer speed and reflexes gets cut exponentially when he's off his board .

oops. my bad.

Surfer blitz Flash

this is ridiculous

surfer cannot render flash's punches harmless

or else Surfer can render anyone's punches harmless...superman, hulk, thor....

Originally posted by Starscream M
or else Surfer can render anyone's punches harmless...hulk Funny thing about Hulk vs Surfer...

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Don't you have a penis to eat somewhere? ahah
You weren't at the buffet when I stopped by.

Originally posted by Starscream M
this is ridiculous

surfer cannot render flash's punches harmless

or else Surfer can render anyone's punches harmless...superman, hulk, thor....
Originally posted by Charmander
Funny thing about Hulk vs Surfer...

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7940/story2page01combatwa4.jpg

h2h only? No speed stealing/amping? Flash will likely make the better showing, but if he's not hitting harder than an enraged Hulk, Surfer will barely wince and sooner or later land one.

Originally posted by Starscream M
this is ridiculous

surfer cannot render flash's punches harmless

or else Surfer can render anyone's punches harmless...superman, hulk, thor....

No, the argument was, that because they'd be travelling near to the same speed, Flash would be hitting with the force of a normal person to Surfer, as the momentum he builds up to hit with super strength would be rendered useless if Surfer is travelling at the same speed.

The other people have super strength so that argument doesn't apply...

i hope that notion hits home soon, you know, with three times being the charm n' shit.

facepalm

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i hope that notion hits home soon, you know, with three times being the charm n' shit.

amen brother . . .

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
No, the argument was, that because they'd be travelling near to the same speed, Flash would be hitting with the force of a normal person to Surfer, as the momentum he builds up to hit with super strength would be rendered useless if Surfer is travelling at the same speed.

The other people have super strength so that argument doesn't apply... but the impact of the punch comes from the speed

so if Surfer can use his speed to somehow negate the force of Flash's punch, he can render Superman's punch harmless in the same way...by moving with the punch at the same speed, it will be only at best a superpowerful push

SS

Ya'll SS supporters can't be serious. SS gets torn up by The Runner's speed and yet Wally, the dude who mainlines the Speed Force and has superior feats to The Runner's can't beat Norrin H2H?

Really guys. Think before posting.

Except Goober and Naija. Their SS sigs allow them to be uber fanboys beyond all reproach.

well...i don't see how wally can put surfer down..he can take every punch from wally without getting KO..but i don't see surfer hitting wally either..so..i just assume SS win..

Wally West wins.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Ya'll SS supporters can't be serious. SS gets torn up by The Runner's speed and yet Wally, the dude who mainlines the Speed Force and has superior feats to The Runner's can't beat Norrin H2H?

Really guys. Think before posting.

Except Goober and Naija. Their SS sigs allow them to be uber fanboys beyond all reproach. Runner > Wally

Originally posted by Mindset
Runner > Wally

Scans or feats to back this up? reading

Do your own research.

hellno

Don't you read comics?

No.

Good man.

ss wins unless wally steals his speed.

Originally posted by Mindset
Runner > Wally
I agree.

Flash via rapestomp.

Originally posted by leonidas


you're . . . having some trouble today, eh? anywho, see gundam's reply. as far as the dc bias--you want a dc guy to win, stop pitting them against guys who are out of their league.

if you seriously don't think ss can fight in or near the same frame of speed as flash, you, well . . . shrug

as a normal guy (which is what flash would be when fighting someone who is traveling near his OWN speed) flash could land a million blows and it wouldn't mean jack to surfer. meanwhile, ss only needs to hit him one and it's over.

You're suggesting Surfer is out of Wally's league in this fight ? Good, prove it.
Show me Surfer fighting h2h, ever in the same frame speed as the Flash.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Didn't you hear? Surfer speed and reflexes gets cut exponentially when he's off his board .

You're suggesting that his on board speed (being able to travel lightyears in moments) is the same as his h2h combat ?

Cool. Show me scans of Surfer fighting, h2h, at milions of times lightspeed.

Originally posted by leonidas
where are thanos's speed feats? why isn't he blitzed by ss and anyone else with speed? Like Runner?

Surfer has a hard time dodging fists when he tries out a blitz technique, from what I've seen.

Originally posted by leonidas
so, if he can react to things that fast, and if he can move that fast, explain to me why he couldn't fight at those speeds h2h? because there is no direct scan showing it? where are thanos's speed feats? why isn't he blitzed by ss and anyone else with speed? '

You're right, that argument there is old.

Maybe if Thanos had never been speedblitzed before, or if the Surfer had actually attempted to do so when they fought, this argument would've actually been worth something.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
No speed stealing.
abccoffee
Why not?

Originally posted by leonidas
that's such a tired old forum cliche that really makes no sense. answer this:

can ss perceive and react to motion several 1000s of x the speed of light? can he move his body several 1000s of x the speed of light?

so, if he can react to things that fast, and if he can move that fast, explain to me why he couldn't fight at those speeds h2h? because there is no direct scan showing it? where are thanos's speed feats? why isn't he blitzed by ss and anyone else with speed? the argument is oldand lame, but cling to it if you need to. i'll stand by common sense.

unless i don't feel like it . . .

Hey, odd.

Superman's that fast, yet he was a statue when the two fought across the world.

Originally posted by leonidas
that's such a tired old forum cliche that really makes no sense. answer this:

can ss perceive and react to motion several 1000s of x the speed of light? can he move his body several 1000s of x the speed of light?

so, if he can react to things that fast, and if he can move that fast, explain to me why he couldn't fight at those speeds h2h? because there is no direct scan showing it? where are thanos's speed feats? why isn't he blitzed by ss and anyone else with speed? the argument is oldand lame, but cling to it if you need to. i'll stand by common sense.

unless i don't feel like it . . .

He can fly, not punch/dodge/run/attack at that speeds in h2h. There is absolutley nothing in his entire history backing that up. And considering, like I said in the other thread, there are Earth Green Lanterns and other characters that have comparable speeds in flight and yet would be statues compared to Zoom in h2h combat, you don't really have an argument, from a logical or proof-standpoint.

Like I said in the other thread, Green Lanterns travel that speed all the time. Earth Green Lanterns. And many other characters who would still get mutilated by Zoom in h2h. Considering Surfer's cosmic senses, his map-like knowledge of the Universe and abilities, he doesn't exactly need to have 100000X lightspeed!!1 reaction time/movement speed. It's not that hard to understand.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Hey, odd.

Superman's that fast, yet he was a statue when the two fought across the world.

Not to mention Superman was also blitz-owned by Zoom in direct h2h confrontation. But hey, Surfer obviously has a multitude of h2h speed feats that he'd have no problems against him, a guy who Wally while amped by Jay and Bart could only see as a blur.

Surfer wins

Wally West wins this fight.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Wally West wins this fight.

Originally posted by Juntai
Like Runner?

Surfer has a hard time dodging fists when he tries out a blitz technique, from what I've seen.

like runner with the time gem, you mean.

First IMO Runner > The flash so that fight with SS to me really holds no water in this fight.

Second, do you really think Flashes punches can put down SS before he'll be able to land any?

Third, I believe Wally wins this fight but it won't be lopsided at all. I feel the stips play into Wally's hands a lot more the SS and thus he has the feats and situation to win this fight.

Originally posted by leonidas


show me any instance of superman displaying speeds that equal ss's best speed feats.

so, since you conveniently ignored all the questions last time, let's see if you'll ignore them again:

1. can ss move at 1000s of x light speed?
2. can he react to objects coming AT HIM at 1000s of x light speed?
3. can he PERCEIVE objects traveling and moving at 1000s of x light speed?

Show me Surfer's best h2h combat speed feat. Then I'll show you Supes's best.

1.Can green lanterns move at 1000s of x light speed ?
2.Can they react at objects coming AT THEM at 1000 of x light speed?
3.can they PERCEIVE objects travelling and moving at 1000s of x light speed ?

That was easy.

Originally posted by leonidas

for the record, in a forum setting, i'd say a GL would handle zoom as easily as ss would.
It funny, he even said that he was shocked that Zoom was caught by his attack for a sec. Zoom was battling GL, Superman, WW, John..etc like nothing. GTFO her kid

Originally posted by leonidas


sophistry is so unbecoming and proves my point for me. you've no way of answering my questions without proving i'm correct. well done, and nice rudimentary way of avoiding the questions.

so, show me proof of all those things from a GL. for the record, in a forum setting, i'd say a GL would handle zoom as easily as ss would.

So counter-questions that prove my point, which is that flying speed means shit when it comes to h2h speed, suddenly prove your point ?

Jesus Christ.

Thor flies at many times lightspeed.

I guess he's going to take on Flash next.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Thor flies at many times lightspeed.

I guess he's going to take on Flash next.

thor uses magic. that changes everything. and he's really never been shown dodging things at those speeds (even while flying), or perceiving things at those speeds, either.

so . . . no. thor wouldn't beat flash by matching speeds with him.

Originally posted by leonidas


show me any instance of superman displaying speeds that equal ss's best speed feats.

so, since you conveniently ignored all the questions last time, let's see if you'll ignore them again:

1. can ss move at 1000s of x light speed?
2. can he react to objects coming AT HIM at 1000s of x light speed?
3. can he PERCEIVE objects traveling and moving at 1000s of x light speed? I think you're extrapolating too much from certain feats in comics

I can understand where you're coming from though...ie...surfer flies at 1000x lightspeed in space and can avoid meteors at such speed, hence he should be able to fight at such speed

however, I don't think it really works like that. Only people who have demonstrated being able to fight as a speed-blitzer can do so.

Originally posted by leonidas
thor uses magic. that changes everything. and he's really never been shown dodging things at those speeds (even while flying), or perceiving things at those speeds, either.

so . . . no. thor wouldn't beat flash by matching speeds with him.

Bullshit.

He flies several times at lightspeed by using Mjolnir. There's no magic involved there. It's like saying "Surfer uses magic, that changes everything" there's nothing to back it up, it's a stupid claim.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Bullshit.

He flies several times at lightspeed by using Mjolnir. There's no magic involved there. It's like saying "Surfer uses magic, that changes everything" there's nothing to back it up, it's a stupid claim.

then just show me thor dodging objects while flying at multiples of lightspeed.

stay on topic boys, or bans will be handed out.

he started it! he's always starting it . . . grumblegrumble . . .

ermm

Originally posted by Raoul
ermm

well, he is . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
well, he is . . .

i was directing it at the thread in general.

far as i see it, anyone who can travel at insane speeds needs to be able to react and make course corrections, so they must have some sort of decent reflex speed, added on to whatever attributes are used to facilitate travel through space (ie looking great distances ahead, etc).

when it comes to competing with someone like wally, though, people need to bring feats to the table.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I think you're extrapolating too much from certain feats in comics

I can understand where you're coming from though...ie...surfer flies at 1000x lightspeed in space and can avoid meteors at such speed, hence he should be able to fight at such speed

however, I don't think it really works like that. Only people who have demonstrated being able to fight as a speed-blitzer can do so.
Yeah, this can be a tough call. Given the Surfer's open powerset, technically he should be capable of h2h superspeed -- he has shown good reflex speed. The one that immediately comes to mind is when he's fighting Cyborg in a crossover (noncanon, I believe, but it's not the only instance of SS moving like this, and again, such ability is consistent with the magic-like versatility of the power cosmic). From a mere few feet away, he dodges twin eyebeams (HV? microwaves moving at lightspeed?) by doing a 1-arm handstand/cartwheel on his board...in space (ah, the absurdity of such a move: probably why it came to mind first).

The thing is, characters get trapped by their own conventions: we have certain expectations of what a given character should or should not be able to do. So, eg, while Wonder Woman can take blows from Superman, she can't take bullets w/o bracelets (I know of the attempts to justify this, such as blunt force vs sharp impact, but IMO they're weak attempts). Or, while power cosmic can do virtually anything, 99 times out of 100 Norrin will still tumble from the sky if knocked off his board.

Anyway, the Surfer meeting Flash's h2h speed understandably makes one wanna go . If I were writing a battle for a comic, I'd likely show Flash getting the upper hand. On the other hand, he'd better be hitting with Supermanlike force. Otherwise, given that the Surfer is no slouch in speed, strength (even w/o amping or being on his board) and especially durability, he'll eventually land a decisive haymaker.

Of course, another factor in h2h combat is skill. While Surfer is no martial artist, he has shown some impressive h2h skills. I don't know how capable Flash is in this area, though offhand, he's never struck me as a martial artist either.

to compare ss on his board to not being on it is just faulty logic. ill use the example of him perceiving,reacting, & evading stars and such while on his board moving at thousands times the speed of light. if u switch it around and have ss stationary on his board and the stars flying past at multiples of light speed he could evade them it would be the same as if he was flying past them. but if i took away his board and had the same objects flying past at that speed he could still visually or mentally perceive them, he could even react, but without the added speed of the board he wouldn't be able to move out of the way fast enough. reacting is different than evading, someone could go to punch me in the face i could see it coming, react and try to get out of the way that doesn't guarantee i will.

Originally posted by Enyalus


I actually think surfer loses this match.

While i dont really agree with the arguments that completely equate SS travel/speed with his combat/reflex speed in battle, those who are comparing SS to the likes of thor and green lantern are idiots. (though i dont think u were one of them). SS may not have a bevy of h2h blitz feats, but unlike GLs and Thor, he does have very impressive speedblitz feats in which he uses his blasts. Something which neither Gls nor thor are capable of doing. Moreover in the event that they are capable of performing such in battle, then it would be evidence of combat speed/

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/th_Surfercmbatspeeddisplay.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/th_Surferblitzmultipleenemies.jpg







The above feats are similar to blitzes performed by superman and flash with the only difference being that he used BLASTS and not physical attacks. Note that these feats were performed in battle and hence are extremely relevant in terms of SS combat speed. However, the presence of his board(which i assume wont be avaiilable in this match) reduces but doesnt totally remove their relevance in his match. Ill explain why. While SS board is what is responsible for the superfast movement seen in those scans, it is SS in battle reactions and reflexes that enabled him to initiate and dodge multiple attacks while operating at superspeed. Further while initiating and directing blasts doesnt require as much limb movement as punching, it DOES require some limb movement and hence that is an indication that SS CAN move his limbs at superspeed. Now while i certainly wouldnt give him the victory in a pure h2h match against a character like flash whose method of attack is physically blitzing people with punches (as opposed to blitzing with blasts like SS) it is absolutely inane to somehow ignore such examples of clear all round combat speed and begin to claim that SS has only travel speed which is useless in combat. Yes his board DOES provide him with his ultra fast movement speed (which he would need to have a chance at winning this h2h match) but he DOES have the ability to move his limbs at superspeed as well as react at superspeed.

Further proof of my point about superfast limb movement in addition to the superfast movement while on his board can be seen in other feats such as his bullrush of nova in which he hits grabs and throws nova (limb movement) so fast that nova (a speedster himeself) is totally unaware of what happened and asks iof he was hit by an energy blast.
It can also be seen in his stoppage of ganyemede (a FTL character) speedblitz with a backhand slap. (note this blitz was only possible after the initial cheapshot ganyemede landed on surfer.)

Therefore to reiterate it once again, surfer DOES lose this match (especially do to his reduced superfast movement caused by the lack of his board) he does have the ability to move his limbs at speeds necessary to initiate and direct attacks at superspeed while moving on his board (which he has shown in battle) and hence the belief that he has simply "travel speed" which is useless in combat is completely nonsesical.

Originally posted by leonidas
like runner with the time gem, you mean. According the comic, iirc, he wasn't using it.

Runner didn't have time gem....

it was the space gem he held, and he didn't possess it at the time iirc

najia was ur last post in response to my post about ss speed with board as opposed to without it? either way i totally agree with basicaly ur whole post. if it was i didnt mean to imply that the surfer without the board is by any means slow or that some of his feats on board cant be translated to combat speed just that its faulty logic to state that just because he can do feat a or feat b on the board that he could accomplish same feats without. could he dodge faster than light objects without board yhea, multiple objects thousands of times that like in the scenario i gave in my last post without board like some others said he could no way with it definitely.

what about the fact that he and his board is actually an extension of himself literally thinking and reacting to his thoughts

Originally posted by Raptor22
najia was ur last post in response to my post about ss speed with board as opposed to without it? either way i totally agree with basicaly ur whole post. if it was i didnt mean to imply that the surfer without the board is by any means slow or that some of his feats on board cant be translated to combat speed just that its faulty logic to state that just because he can do feat a or feat b on the board that he could accomplish same feats without. could he dodge faster than light objects without board yhea, multiple objects thousands of times that like in the scenario i gave in my last post without board like some others said he could no way with it definitely.

No it wasnt. I understand what ur saying and its quite in line with my argument.

SS imo

Originally posted by Juntai
According the comic, iirc, he wasn't using it.
Leonidas was referring to Thanos' fight with the Runner, I would think.

Originally posted by Naija boy
I actually think surfer loses this match.

While i dont really agree with the arguments that completely equate SS travel/speed with his combat/reflex speed in battle, those who are comparing SS to the likes of thor and green lantern are idiots. (though i dont think u were one of them). SS may not have a bevy of h2h blitz feats, but unlike GLs and Thor, he does have very impressive speedblitz feats in which he uses his blasts. Something which neither Gls nor thor are capable of doing. Moreover in the event that they are capable of performing such in battle, then it would be evidence of combat speed/

The above feats are similar to blitzes performed by superman and flash with the only difference being that he used BLASTS and not physical attacks. Note that these feats were performed in battle and hence are extremely relevant in terms of SS combat speed. However, the presence of his board(which i assume wont be avaiilable in this match) reduces but doesnt totally remove their relevance in his match. Ill explain why. While SS board is what is responsible for the superfast movement seen in those scans, it is SS in battle reactions and reflexes that enabled him to initiate and dodge multiple attacks while operating at superspeed. Further while initiating and directing blasts doesnt require as much limb movement as punching, it DOES require some limb movement and hence that is an indication that SS CAN move his limbs at superspeed. Now while i certainly wouldnt give him the victory in a pure h2h match against a character like flash whose method of attack is physically blitzing people with punches (as opposed to blitzing with blasts like SS) it is absolutely inane to somehow ignore such examples of clear all round combat speed and begin to claim that SS has only travel speed which is useless in combat. Yes his board DOES provide him with his ultra fast movement speed (which he would need to have a chance at winning this h2h match) but he DOES have the ability to move his limbs at superspeed as well as react at superspeed.

Further proof of my point about superfast limb movement in addition to the superfast movement while on his board can be seen in other feats such as his bullrush of nova in which he hits grabs and throws nova (limb movement) so fast that nova (a speedster himeself) is totally unaware of what happened and asks iof he was hit by an energy blast.
It can also be seen in his stoppage of ganyemede (a FTL character) speedblitz with a backhand slap. (note this blitz was only possible after the initial cheapshot ganyemede landed on surfer.)

Therefore to reiterate it once again, surfer DOES lose this match (especially do to his reduced superfast movement caused by the lack of his board) he does have the ability to move his limbs at speeds necessary to initiate and direct attacks at superspeed while moving on his board (which he has shown in battle) and hence the belief that he has simply "travel speed" which is useless in combat is completely nonsesical.

Surfer has a good chance if he bullrushes him off the bat. A Nova or IG-like blitz ends this in one shot, no need for a repeated H2H engagement. However, I don't see Surfer resorting to that 10/10 times, or even for a majority...which is why he loses too, IMO.

Originally posted by Enyalus




Surfer has a good chance if he bullrushes him off the bat. A Nova or IG-like blitz ends this in one shot, no need for a repeated H2H engagement. However, I don't see Surfer resorting to that 10/10 times, or even for a majority...which is why he loses too, IMO.

Hmm is SS board available in this match? If so then it would be a much closer fight than what i envisioned but SS would still lose IMO. A bullrush as u described would indeed end it though.

"hand to hand only"

Originally posted by leonidas
that's such a tired old forum cliche that really makes no sense. answer this:

can ss perceive and react to motion several 1000s of x the speed of light? can he move his body several 1000s of x the speed of light?

so, if he can react to things that fast, and if he can move that fast, explain to me why he couldn't fight at those speeds h2h? because there is no direct scan showing it? where are thanos's speed feats? why isn't he blitzed by ss and anyone else with speed? the argument is oldand lame, but cling to it if you need to. i'll stand by common sense.

unless i don't feel like it . . .


Looking at it that way I guess that means Black Panther, Alicia Masters, Red Hulk, and Mister Fantastic (and other FF members)must all have the same FTL perception considering that they have all traveled on the board just fine and saw everything.

Guys like Batman, Captain America, and even Batgirl has feats that make Surfer looks like a fool on foot.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
what about the fact that he and his board is actually an extension of himself literally thinking and reacting to his thoughts

Funny...Flashes fist is also an extension of himself literally reacting to his thoughts.

u boys take all the fun outta forum battles with bias


SS WINS!!!!

I HEART MARVEL

Originally posted by Avlon
Looking at it that way I guess that means Black Panther, Alicia Masters, Red Hulk, and Mister Fantastic (and other FF members)must all have the same FTL perception considering that they have all traveled on the board just fine and saw everything.If they were traveling through atmosphere, they weren't going FTL. Regardless, one could also ask why weren't they blown off the board in the first place from air resistance; or if it was FTL in space, how were they breathing? Most likely, these are details writers simply don't bother with just like how characters can talk to each other in soundless vacuum, or how the silvery Surfer rarely reflects his environment (eg, he should look all starry in space).

Guys like Batman, Captain America, and even Batgirl has feats that make Surfer looks like a fool on foot. Hey, Norrin doesn't even have presence of mind to hover whenever he's knocked offboard.

Seriously, though, this would have to do with expectations of characters I mentioned in a prior post. Even where Surfer is doing that 1-hand cartwheel to avoid Cyborg's eyebeams seemed more like something the guys you mentioned would do (and why I found the maneuver odd, especially in space).

Originally posted by Sin I AM
u boys take all the fun outta forum battles with bias


SS WINS!!!!

I HEART MARVEL

oooohhhh luv the sig Rao!!!

Originally posted by Sin I AM
oooohhhh luv the sig Rao!!!

lol thanks. yours is pretty sweet too...

Originally posted by Mindship
If they were traveling through atmosphere, they weren't going FTL. Regardless, one could also ask why weren't they blown off the board in the first place from air resistance; or if it was FTL in space, how were they breathing? Most likely, these are details writers simply don't bother with just like how characters can talk to each other in soundless vacuum, or how the silvery Surfer rarely reflects his environment (eg, he should look all starry in space).

I agree to a certain extent on this which is why I didn't get into all the extra details...however, the original point stands... they were able to see and process their traveling (and not always in atmosphere)just fine.

Even if in atmosphere, when on a board, whatever passenger is with surfer (or if they 'jacked' the board) has no problem navigating it.

There is no solid proof of Surfer having any true superspeed. 30+ years of comics have shown that he is enhanced, but never anything remotely close to an actual speedster.

Steel and Superboy don't have FTL reflexes and they have rode on and navigated a FTL asteroid on their own with no problem. Superboy HAS however shown true physical superspeed on his own...

Originally posted by Mindship
Hey, Norrin doesn't even have presence of mind to hover whenever he's knocked offboard.

Which makes even more fights against his favor since CIS is a part of forum rules. Surfer doesn't think his way through battles like Flash tends to do.

Originally posted by Mindship
Seriously, though, this would have to do with expectations of characters I mentioned in a prior post. Even where Surfer is doing that 1-hand cartwheel to avoid Cyborg's eyebeams seemed more like something the guys you mentioned would do (and why I found the maneuver odd, especially in space).

That's the same crossover where Kyle drained Thanos of his energy and Surfer couldn't absorb GL energy directly.

Originally posted by Raoul
lol thanks. yours is pretty sweet too...

I should just put a pic of NPH and mine would easily beat yours.

nph?

neil patrick harris.

Originally posted by Avlon
Looking at it that way I guess that means Black Panther, Alicia Masters, Red Hulk, and Mister Fantastic (and other FF members)must all have the same FTL perception considering that they have all traveled on the board just fine and saw everything.

Guys like Batman, Captain America, and even Batgirl has feats that make Surfer looks like a fool on foot.

i don't remember the instances you're talking about, nor how fast they were actually going. and . . . alicia is blind. it's possible they could see distant things like i can see distance clearly in a jet moving at 800mph, but anything up close is impossible. put them on the board, make it go ftl and then see if they can pilot through an asteroid field. i'm thinking that's not gonna happen . . .

so you're of the opinion ss couldn't see and react to a punch thrown by cap or batgirl?

Originally posted by Avlon
I agree to a certain extent on this which is why I didn't get into all the extra details...however, the original point stands... they were able to see and process their traveling (and not always in atmosphere)just fine.

Even if in atmosphere, when on a board, whatever passenger is with surfer (or if they 'jacked' the board) has no problem navigating it. Yeah, weird considering how the board is supposed to be an extension of the Surfer. Maybe that's how the Panther armbarred him. Board / arm: what's the diff.
Basically, the writers are going to do whatever moves the story along.

There is no solid proof of Surfer having any true superspeed. 30+ years of comics have shown that he is enhanced, but never anything remotely close to an actual speedster. I believe it's 40+ years . However, if a writer did decide to throw it in, it would be consistent with Surfer's open powerset.

Originally posted by Mindship
Yeah, weird considering how the board is supposed to be an extension of the Surfer. Maybe that's how the Panther armbarred him. Board / arm: what's the diff.
Basically, the writers are going to do whatever moves the story along.

I believe it's 40+ years . However, if a writer did decide to throw it in, it would be consistent with Surfer's open powerset.

agreed. and i'm thinking that reed or BP or alicia wouldn't be doing something like this:

http://img90.imageshack.us/i/silversurfer199612206jx3.jpg/

noting and calculating the locations of BILLIONS of stars. seriously, if that's not ludicrous perceptual speeds . . .

I can't see their brains working fast enough to track an electrical signal either...

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/481/silversurfer198902419zike1.th.jpg http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/8402/silversurfer198902420tyth3.th.jpg

Originally posted by darthgoober
I can't see their brains working fast enough to track an electrical signal either...

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/481/silversurfer198902419zike1.th.jpg http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/8402/silversurfer198902420tyth3.th.jpg

That's impressive.

Why is he talking about holding his consciousness together?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
That's impressive.

Why is he talking about holding his consciousness together?
Probably because he's getting cut to pieces by that super computer. To me it seems like he's trying to fight off blacking out.

Originally posted by leonidas
i don't remember the instances you're talking about, nor how fast they were actually going. and . . . alicia is blind. it's possible they could see distant things like i can see distance clearly in a jet moving at 800mph, but anything up close is impossible. put them on the board, make it go ftl and then see if they can pilot through an asteroid field. i'm thinking that's not gonna happen . . .

If they are being protected by the relativistic effects..I don't see why they couldn't pilot it the same. It's been navigated, and disregarding things that the author probably didn't think about such as air, speech in space,etc... it still shows characters other than Surfer just fine on the board observing and navigating just fine.


Originally posted by leonidas
so you're of the opinion ss couldn't see and react to a punch thrown by cap or batgirl?

I don't see why he couldn't react regarding other humans can react to it... however, they still have been reaction feats to their name than SS does... nor has he shown any real kind of impressive arm/foot speed.

Flash.

Originally posted by Avlon
If they are being protected by the relativistic effects..I don't see why they couldn't pilot it the same. It's been navigated, and disregarding things that the author probably didn't think about such as air, speech in space,etc... it still shows characters other than Surfer just fine on the board observing and navigating just fine.

they likely could pilot it if ss says they could. just no way they could pilot it anywhere near as fast. or do you think cap could fly the thing through an asteroid feild travelling ftl? i still haven't seen any of the instances you're talking about either.



so where are you going to set the limit on what he can react to and what are you going to base that limit on? becasue seeing/calculating BILLIONS of stars moving at the speeds ss does is a LUDICROUS feat, as is the other one goob showed.

Originally posted by leonidas
they likely could pilot it if ss says they could. just no way they could pilot it anywhere near as fast. or do you think cap could fly the thing through an asteroid feild travelling ftl? i still haven't seen any of the instances you're talking about either.



so where are you going to set the limit on what he can react to and what are you going to base that limit on? becasue seeing/calculating BILLIONS of stars moving at the speeds ss does is a LUDICROUS feat, as is the other one goob showed.
Unless he's thinking of things I've forgotten or never saw, his memory of events is a little off. Black Panther's never navigated Surfer board to my knowledge, he just hoped on board and rode it back to Surfer when Surfer summoned it(during the infamous armbar incident). And I'm pretty sure that Alicia never controlled the board either. The only time I can think of that comes close is when she rode it back to Earth while Surfer fought Redshift, and I'm pretty sure that Surfer just "sent" it there while he fought, I don't remember her actually assuming control of it or doing any navigating. Red Hulk did control it, but Red Hulk also has documented super speed if I'm not mistaken and also had Surfer's powers(or at least energy) at the time(not to mention the fact that Rulk's speed was never clocked on the board). As for Mr. Fantastic and the FF, I have no idea of what he's talking about.

I highly doubt blackpanther, Mr fantastic, or any other FF members have ever been able to fully perceive evrything around them on SS board while performing complex movements at superspeed. (I dont even recall an instance where they were even on his board while operating at superspeed.) Red hulk actually had SS powercosmic so he doesnt really apply here. Even then he still did not operate at extremely high speeds.

facepalm

Anyway, my money would be on Surfer. He doesn't need really fast on panel hand movement feats to simply stick his arm out to the side and do a hyperlight speed clothesline, shoulder block, or knee smash utilizing his "traveling speed" as the momentum behind the blow, and his durability and density at those speeds will do the rest upon impact. Not quite as finesse as millions of punches, but just as effective.

alicia masters was riding the board under the willpower of surfer. he even gave her a force field so that she could go through a black hole without getting hurt.

are there any recent appearences of norrin?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
are there any recent appearences of norrin?
Just recently in the Skaar books...and the Rulk disasterpiece, too.

Oh, and Godhunter.

rulk doesnt register with me, and i pray its not canon

hows the skaar and Godhunter appearace, i hope he doesnt job to BRB

Originally posted by Sin I AM
hows the skaar and Godhunter appearace, i hope he doesnt job to BRB
The Skaar appearance was pretty good. He literally rips the Oldpower out of Skaar and seals it back into the planet. A power that could've kept Galactus sated for hundreds of thousands of years.

Silver Savage style.

so skaar doesnt have the oldpower anymore...hmmm i foresee him getting it back though.

About time he showed some backbone

Originally posted by Sin I AM
so skaar doesnt have the oldpower anymore...hmmm i foresee him getting it back though.

About time he showed some backbone
He does for Planet Skaar....unfortunately. Still got his ass kicked by Hulk.

well hulk is the strongest there is......

Originally posted by Enyalus
The Skaar appearance was pretty good. He literally rips the Oldpower out of Skaar and seals it back into the planet. A power that could've kept Galactus sated for hundreds of thousands of years.

Silver Savage style.

Pak seems to have a very good grasp of where the Surfer lies powerwise...

I mean, he had Surfer owning Hulk and the Warbound, and then owning Skaar, rather than jobbing to make either of those characters look good.

Skaar seems to have been a good example of how to make a new character look good without insulting fans everywhere, unlike a certain other newer Hulk...

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Pak seems to have a very good grasp of where the Surfer lies powerwise...

I mean, he had Surfer owning Hulk and the Warbound, and then owning Skaar, rather than jobbing to make either of those characters look good.

Skaar seems to have been a good example of how to make a new character look good without insulting fans everywhere, unlike a certain other newer Hulk...

True, I despise every depiction I have seen of Rulk, a 1-dimensional character with a weakess a great as his should be easily exploited

Originally posted by Sin I AM
rulk doesnt register with me, and i pray its not canon
Rulk is catharsis/therapy for Loeb for his loss. If it becomes canon...well, I guess that means Marvel's staff really sympathized.









And Raoul, please change your sig. I don't wanna be a Wonder Woman fan.

Originally posted by Mindship
Rulk is catharsis/therapy for Loeb for his loss. If it becomes canon...well, I guess that means Marvel's staff really sympathized.









And Raoul, please change your sig. I don't wanna be a Wonder Woman fan.

what loss r u referring to?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
what loss r u referring to?
His son's death to cancer.

Originally posted by Enyalus
His son's death to cancer.

maybe the military has made me callous, but that doesnt give him the right to destroy characters

Originally posted by Sin I AM
maybe the military has made me callous, but that doesnt give him the right to destroy characters
Maybe I've always been callous, but I think you're right.

oh well, maybe he'll eventually honor his sons memory by makin good comics again


Wuv u Eny!!

Originally posted by Sin I AM
oh well, maybe he'll eventually honor his sons memory by makin good comics again


Wuv u Eny!!
Love ya, too. Happy Fourth over there.



Flash wins this one.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Love ya, too. Happy Fourth over there.



Flash wins this one.

over there? where exactly ARE you? don't say canada . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
over there? where exactly ARE you? don't say canada . . .
Better question is 'where IS she?'

Originally posted by Enyalus
Better question is 'where IS she?'

heh. tru dat. naughty

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Pak seems to have a very good grasp of where the Surfer lies powerwise...

I mean, he had Surfer owning Hulk and the Warbound, and then owning Skaar, rather than jobbing to make either of those characters look good.

Skaar seems to have been a good example of how to make a new character look good without insulting fans everywhere, unlike a certain other newer Hulk...

I feel pretty insulted as a Hulk fan.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I feel pretty insulted as a Hulk fan.
You're a Hulk fan?

lies

Originally posted by Enyalus
You're a Hulk fan?

you'd be surprised at how many of us are hulk fans.

you'd be surprised at how many of us are hulk fans.

Originally posted by Raoul
you'd be surprised at how many of us are hulk fans.

Amen to that.

I started picking up the series as WWH started. I thought his return would be a point to jump on board the book.

Then Loeb came along

Originally posted by Mindship
And Raoul, please change your sig. I don't wanna be a Wonder Woman fan.

you don't have to read her comics. just look at the pictures.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Amen to that.

I started picking up the series as WWH started. I thought his return would be a point to jump on board the book.

Then Loeb came along

peter david's run did it for me. the man's a genius.

Originally posted by leonidas
over there? where exactly ARE you? don't say canada . . .

Canada!!!! **** NO! Im allergic to anything north of Maine, including Alaska and its freakish governor. I think I wouldve taken a drill bit to my temple if i had to live there...


but Im in Iraq sweetie, Fighting for our freedom on this Eve of The 4th. Been here since Feb

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Im in Iraq sweetie, Fighting for our freedom on this Eve of The 4th. So, we have a real-life hero here at KMC. To you and your fellow soldiers: a safe and happy 4th, and thank you for your courage and efforts.

Those who go to Iraq are heroes now?

Whether you agree, or not, with the policymakers, the soldiers themselves are putting their lives on the line for others. To me, that's a hero.

facepalm

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Those who go to Iraq are heroes now?

I wouldnt call us "heroes" we do no more than firefighters and police officers. We all get paid for our service. Just remember though that we keep the fight over there, so they wont bring it over here

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I wouldnt call us "heroes" we do no more than firefighters and police officers. You're being modest. Every firefighter, eg, who's ever run into a burning building to save someone is indeed a hero.

facepalm

Man...

Originally posted by Mindship
You're being modest. Every firefighter, eg, who's ever run into a burning building to save someone is indeed a hero.

Very true. How can people disagree with this because I sure as hell aint running in no burning building for ANYONE. If it was up to me, it'll be a lot of burned up people.

Originally posted by illadelph12
facepalm

Man...



...wut?