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ouch.

I think the thread title is misleading.lol

how is this a win for dc? seems to me that they totally and completely lost. so what is going to happen now that dc will no longer own superman?

Originally posted by emporerpants
how is this a win for dc? seems to me that they totally and completely lost. so what is going to happen now that dc will no longer own superman?

Massive crossover. Superman dies to save the omniverse. Gets succeeded by Chris Kent, who takes up a different name, but basically does the same stuff.

so wtf does this mean....no more Superman name?

Here's the entire article.

Warner Bros. wins 'Superman' case
Siegel heirs can only pursue DC Comics profits
By DAVE MCNARYMore Articles:

Warner Bros. and DC Comics have won a favorable ruling in the suit filed by the heirs of "Superman" co-creator Jerome Siegel.
In a decision announced Wednesday, U.S. Judge District Court Judge Stephen G. Larson found that the license fees the studio paid to corporate sibling DC Comics didn't represent "sweetheart" deals as they weren't below fair market value. That means the heirs will be able seek profits only from DC Comics -- which earned $13.6 million from Warner Bros. for the 2006 release of "Superman Returns" -- rather than from Warner Bros. as well.

"DC Comics and Warner Bros. Entertainment are very gratified by the court's thorough and well-reasoned decision in this matter," the companies said in a joint statement. "The decision validates what DC and Warner Bros. have maintained from the beginning, which is that when they do business with each other, they always strive for -- and achieve -- fair market value in their transactions. We are very pleased that the court found there was no merit to plaintiffs' position that the Superman deals were unfair to DC Comics and, by extension, the plaintiffs."

The judge also set a Dec. 1 trial date for determining the allocation of profits to the heirs, who won a ruling last year from Larson that awarded them half the copyright for the "Superman" material.

The heirs had accused Warners of making "sweetheart" deals with DC in 1999 for feature rights and in 2000 for TV rights for "Smallville." The feature rights included $1.5 million upfront, $18.5 million for option extensions over 31 years and 5% of first-dollar worldwide distributor gross or 7.5% of domestic gross -- whichever was larger -- while the TV rights included $45,000 per episode, 3% of first-dollar gross for the first $1.5 million and 5% thereafter.

Larson said in his 30-page ruling that there was "insufficient evidence that the 'Superman' film agreement between DC Comics and Warner Bros., whether judged by its direct economic terms or its indirect ones, was consummated at below its fair market value."

The judge, who conducted a 10-day bench trial, also noted that Warner Bros. chairman Alan Horn had testified that he hopes to make another "Superman" movie but added that the property wasn't under development at the studio, that no script had been written and that the earliest another "Superman" pic could be released would be in 2012.

In making his decision, Larson looked at other licensing deals for properties such as Iron Man, X-Men and Spider-Man. Attorney Marc Toberoff, who represents heirs Joanne Siegel and Laura Siegel Larson, told Daily Variety that the judge had erred in not considering comparable licensing deals for bestselling novels penned by Tom Clancy and Michael Crichton and popular musicals such as "My Fair Lady."

Toberoff, who has specialized in copyright claims, admitted that proving a sweetheart deal within a vertically integrated conglom was a challenge. "This was always going to be tough to prove," he added.

Toberoff also asserted in a written statement that the Siegel heirs and the heirs of co-creator Joe Shuster will own the entire Superman copyright in 2013.

"This trial was only an interim step in the multifaceted accounting case which remains, in that it only concerned the secondary issue of whether DC Comics, or DC Comics and Warner Bros., would have to account to the Siegels," he said. "To put this in further perspective, the entire accounting action pales in comparison to the fact that in 2013, the Siegels, along with the estate of Joe Shuster, will own the entire original copyright to Superman, and neither DC Comics nor Warner Bros. will be able to exploit any new Superman works without a license from the Siegels and Shusters."

Toberoff also asseted that Larson found that Warner Bros. should have paid three to four times the amount actually paid for the Superman film rights and that he had found it "inequitable" that DC transferred the Superman film rights to Warner Bros. without the standard term providing for reversion for lack of ongoing exploitation.

"The Court pointedly ruled that if Warner Bros. does not start production on another Superman film by 2011, the Siegels will be able to sue to recover their damages," Toberoff added. "The Siegels look forward to the remainder of the case, which will determine how much defendants owe them for their exploitations of Superman."

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118005806.html?categoryid=22&cs=1

So they wont own superman after 2013?

Originally posted by jalek moye
So they wont own superman after 2013?

aye. if they want to continue to use him, they'll have to pay the families directly.

i can see warner and dc fighting this all the way, though. superman is FAR too lucrative a property to just give him up like this...

They better keep fighting this


or send some assassins to kill them

watch WB turn superman into a pu$$y

Originally posted by chomperx9
watch WB turn superman into a pu$$y

you mean you haven't seen smallville?

so, if they do lose the rights to superman...that basically kills the character. dc won't use him, or at least not use him seriously ever again, as it wouldn't be profitable. wow. damn shusters. they've killed superman. its a sad, sad time to be a superman fan, as we now know that he's going to die and die for good. and we even know when. 2013, the end of an era.

Originally posted by Raoul
you mean you haven't seen smallville?

If they dont find a way to keep him. i'm gonna be really sad

So from what I gathered. Superman is no longer to be used by DC Comics anymore. How is that a WIN????

Any ways, it seems that they are going to have a trail that will sort out how much to pay the families to use Superman. IS that right?

I am sure DC will give a huge chunk of movie to keep using Superman. Over the years, Superman has given them billions of dollars in profits. I am sure they will give money to keep them.

no they have to pay to use him everytime they want to. and the people have to approve, they wont get to pay to offically own him anymore

I know but they have to pay every time they mention his name or just use him in movies, shows, cartoon..etc

Wait, if it's only the name.... could they change his name?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Wait, if it's only the name.... could they change his name?
Yeah, but I am sure the symbol means something too. Also, it wouldn't be the same thing

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Wait, if it's only the name.... could they change his name?
i think the symbol aswell

Its a damn shame that a company like WB can own Supes and know fck all about him. They will butcher him.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Its a damn shame that a company like WB can own Supes and know fck all about him. They will butcher him.

wB already owns superman in a way, them and DC are losing him

Originally posted by jalek moye
wB already owns superman in a way, them and DC are losing him

Shouldn't you be in bed?

yea i should be normally. but i have to go somewhere in like 45 minutes

Originally posted by jalek moye
yea i should be normally. but i have to go somewhere in like 45 minutes

Guess who didn't sleep at all?

not surprised

R.I.P. Supes 2013.rip

I've already mentally conditioned myself for the worst case scenario.

I hope some fans put the scares into them.

Originally posted by Premium
I hope some fans put the scares into them.

i wonder if there's some sort of petition or letter writing movement?

I'm not even a fan of Supes, I find him boring and rather annoying but this defferently is a dickish move.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i wonder if there's some sort of petition or letter writing movement?

or guys dressed as batman hanging them over the side of a building.

Originally posted by Premium
I'm not even a fan of Supes, I find him boring and rather annoying but this defferently is a dickish move.

uhuh

Originally posted by jalek moye
or guys dressed as batman hanging them over the side of a building.

Originally posted by -Pr-
uhuh





superm

This is...FVCKED!!!

Are the Siegals even trying to cut a deal??? Or are they so greedy that they will allow Supes to fade into obscurity just to prove a point???

This pretty much sums it up.
http://movies.ign.com/articles/101/1014092p1.html

WB is fcked....Since Siegel and (co-creator) Joel Schuster has the right for the origins they could just sit back and not give WB permission. And in 2013 they will get everything back. Or WB has to make a new Supes movie with a new origin.



This means the Siegels now control depictions of Supes' parents, the destruction of Krypton, the infant Kal-El crash landing on earth, and so on. If Warner Bros. want to reboot the franchise and include these elements - perhaps for a new origin movie - they would now have to seek permission first.

AS previously reported, if the studio and DC Comics want to make a Superman movie they need to start production by 2011.

In 2013 all the remaining rights to the character will pass over to the families of Siegel and (co-creator) Joel Schuster in 2013, giving them the power to set up Superman projects elsewhere.

I don't like that last sentence.

they don't need to address his origin in the new movie. its been done to death already, and besides, anyone who knows anyone about superman knows the "baby on a rocketship sent from a dying planet" story. it's not neccessary.

2013, though... shit.

My first impression is the Siegels are a bunch of money-thirsty assholes. Is there any context that might change that ?

man this is soo messed up.

I really hope they can get out of this, and i still support dressing up as batman and hanging them over the side of a building untill they sign over the rights again

Supes should belong to Siegels and DC not WB.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Supes should belong to Siegels and DC not WB.
DC is a part of WB though, thats why they own it also.

Originally posted by jalek moye
DC is a part of WB though, thats why they own it also.

aye. WB are also the reason we've had so few dc movies of the past few years. bastards.

love the warhammer sig btw, you play dawn of war?

yes i do. very good game

Originally posted by jalek moye
yes i do. very good game

aye, totally agree. i still play dark crusade from time to time, and dow 2 of course is awesome.

allthough I enjoyed the first one and its expansions more then the second one. The second one is still good

Warhammer 40k also has some cool comics

Originally posted by jalek moye
allthough I enjoyed the first one and its expansions more then the second one. The second one is still good

Warhammer 40k also has some cool comics

i know what you mean. dow2 seems less like an all out battle fest compared to dow. dow2 is a lot more reliant on slow, tactical play.

yeah, the comics are pretty good. i read the ultramar one, and one series with the Black Templars. good stuff.

But WB doesn't know shit about Supes and cannot make a great Superman movie, they should leave the comics stuff to DC.

They are stuck doiing the same stupid plot and same stupid villain over and over again.

Does anyone think Dc is going to change Superman's origins. I think they are changing it. A new comic is coming out called Superman: Secret Origins

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Does anyone think Dc is going to change Superman's origins. I think they are changing it. A new comic is coming out called Superman: Secret Origins
I heard they were just Fixing it, because not all of the byrne era stuff was removed yet.

Unless of course the sigels are making them change it or something like that

it's geoff johns' origin for superman. iirc, it's dc's way of nailing down a definitive origin.

so what does this all mean for superman? what does everyone think will happen to the character? will the comics be affected? if so, how? will superman be affected in all forms of media, such as not using him in cartoons or tv series?

Originally posted by emporerpants
so what does this all mean for superman? what does everyone think will happen to the character? will the comics be affected? if so, how? will superman be affected in all forms of media, such as not using him in cartoons or tv series?
if the Siegels dont want him to be used, DC wont be able to do anything about after 2013

Obviously, they will allow him to be used. However, they will surely ask for a nice profit (like royalty). Superman means a lot to DC; they'll pay a good price for him.

In worst case scenario, I see Superman being used by other companies, even marvel. In addition, he'll probably be seen a lot less in comics after 2013. I don't see him having 5 different comics (AC, Superman, JLA..etc)

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Obviously, they will allow him to be used. However, they will surely ask for a nice profit (like royalty). Superman means a lot to DC; they'll pay a good price for him.

In worst case scenario, I see Superman being used by other companies, even marvel. In addition, he'll probably be seen a lot less in comics after 2013. I don't see him having 5 different comics (AC, Superman, JLA..etc)
or even worse they start there own comic company with him as there main hero

Originally posted by jalek moye
or even worse they start there own comic company with him as there main hero
They wouldn't dare. They are just money hungry.

i really can't see dc letting this stand. superman makes them more money than most other heroes combined (bar bats). besides, they have like 3 years to put something together. if they keep it in court, even, they can keep the siegels at bay for years...

Originally posted by The Nuul
But WB doesn't know shit about Supes and cannot make a great Superman movie, they should leave the comics stuff to DC.

They are stuck doiing the same stupid plot and same stupid villain over and over again.

Hey - Warners has owned DC for over 30 years. They produced the first movie with Christopher Reeve. This is just some serious nut-twisting business legalize.

What will the Siegels & Shusters do once they get all the rights in 2013?

(Maybe Alan Moore is their 'consigliere' in this. :evil)

Oh boy, this sounds like a Nightmare

I don't think DC or WB will pay as much as the Siegels & Shusters would like. I could, however, imagine that after so many Years of "battle" the bitterness between both sides is big enough to see some rights to Marvel or another Company, just to make some quick cash and to piss WB off.

if marvel somehow got a hold of superman, they'd ruin him.

Originally posted by -Pr-
if marvel somehow got a hold of superman, they'd ruin him.
They just might.

Watch bendis be his writer if they do

Originally posted by jalek moye
Watch bendis be his writer if they do

yup. and that guy doesn't have a clue how to write superman. look what he did with sentry.

Hmm, I was reading up on this on the DC Message Board, and I came across on this topic. These guys are pretty smart.
http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/thread.jspa?threadID=2000197848&tstart=0

I didn't know that Seigal had to sell Superboy back to DC because they ran out of money