Kyle Rayner vs Norrin Rad with a Twist.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



id369

Enyalus
Kyle. Easily. Going off of feats only.

SS has most of the high feats for heralds of Galactus already. He's like, the posterboy.

Kyle's got Hal, Yat, and Kyle as Ion's ridiculous feats to draw upon.

Naija boy
SS

Mindset
Kyle.

He doesn't need anyone else's feats.

Raoul
GL Stomp.

Naija boy
Originally posted by Enyalus
Kyle. Easily. Going off of feats only.

SS has most of the high feats for heralds of Galactus already. He's like, the posterboy.

Kyle's got Hal, Yat, and Kyle as Ion's ridiculous feats to draw upon.

Please explain how the how this will be supposedly easy. Kyle accessing feats from other gls is great and all but considering that he is a high end gl himself and then more than anything, the feats alot of them accomplished would certainly not be beyond him in the first place. Its not like he is getting an amp from a transtier or upwards level character so pray tell how this will be "easy"

Enyalus
Originally posted by Naija boy
Please explain how the how this will be supposedly easy. Kyle accessing feats from other gls is great and all but considering that he is a high end gl himself and then more than anything, the feats alot of them accomplished would certainly not be beyond him in the first place. Its not like he is getting an amp from a transtier or upwards level character so pray tell how this will be "easy"
Uh, okay. Quick Vlaaad example: containing a Big Bang's worth of entropy with a fraction of the Ion Power.

Best 616 Surfer minus a definite temporary powerup is the Uni-Lord fight, right?

Naija boy
Originally posted by Enyalus
Uh, okay. Quick Vlaaad example: containing a Big Bang's worth of entropy with a fraction of the Ion Power.

Best 616 Surfer minus a definite temporary powerup is the Uni-Lord fight, right?

Hmm. didnt think ion 1 was part of this match.

And yeah thats probly his best portrayal

Enyalus
Yat's got crazy the crazy energy manipulation feat of changing the composition of an entire star. And John Stewart would've recreated an entire solar system if his ring had enough power to do it....Ion 2 didn't have that limitation, considering he didn't need a GL ring.

Naija boy
Originally posted by Enyalus
Yat's got crazy the crazy energy manipulation feat of changing the composition of an entire star. And John Stewart would've recreated an entire solar system if his ring had enough power to do it....Ion 2 didn't have that limitation, considering he didn't need a GL ring.

Changing the energy composition of an entire star is impressive but Changing the energy composition of an entire universes worth of psychic energy as surfer did in the unilord saga is much more impressive. As for the solar system thing....... got me there if he would actually be able to create it. Cant really think of anything similar aside maybe evolving the planet by billions in seconds and being able to create blackholes (which consume solar systems). Still did ion2 really showcase the kind of power needed to complete such a feat? I really dont recall any such incindent.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Naija boy
Still did ion2 really showcase the kind of power needed to complete such a feat? I really dont recall any such incindent.

Nope. Just implied power. Given that he had the full Oan power/Ion Force & the Starheart energies.

Naija boy
Originally posted by Enyalus
Nope. Just implied power. Given that he had the full Oan power/Ion Force & the Starheart energies.

I thought so. Im hardpressed to believe that he could complete the solar sytem creation feat. didnt both ion 1 and ion 2 have similar levels of implied power? And yet ion1 far outstripped anything that ion2 did and was on a much higher powerlevel. Hence i dont think using implied power in this scenario is valid.

Enyalus
No, Classic Ion did virtually nothing except stop a war and talk to Spectre.

Naija boy
^What of the Big Bang feat? he was tappin into the ion power at that time.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Naija boy
^What of the Big Bang feat? he was tappin into the ion power at that time.
Sure, but he was still a GL then. Hadn't beaten and absorbed Nero or Oblivion yet. Long ways away from it. Actual Classic Ion had little showings of pure power to go on.

Naija boy
Originally posted by Enyalus
Sure, but he was still a GL then. Hadn't beaten and absorbed Nero or Oblivion yet. Long ways away from it. Actual Classic Ion had little showings of pure power to go on.

Hmm. i see what u mean. But even then thats still a great showing for the ion power itself as it was portrayed the first time around and is far superior to anything that has been accomplished with it in it second run Then there is also that talk he had with spectre who mentione dhow he could rewrite the universe which should clearly put him above current ions displayed powerlevel.

Anyhow im sure u get the point. stick out tongue

Juntai
Originally posted by Naija boy
Changing the energy composition of an entire star is impressive but Changing the energy composition of an entire universes worth of psychic energy as surfer did in the unilord saga is much more impressive. As for the solar system thing....... got me there if he would actually be able to create it. Cant really think of anything similar aside maybe evolving the planet by billions in seconds and being able to create blackholes (which consume solar systems). Still did ion2 really showcase the kind of power needed to complete such a feat? I really dont recall any such incindent. GL's can evolve and devolve life as well.
As well as open and close black holes.

Juntai
Originally posted by Enyalus
Nope. Just implied power. Given that he had the full Oan power/Ion Force & the Starheart energies. IIRC- The Guardians suggested Kyle as ION 2 was more powerful than previously, and were unsure of how he would cope with it.

id369

Tazer
Yo.

GREAT fight..........but Kyle ftw




Tazer

id369
Originally posted by Naija boy
. As for the solar system thing....... got me there if he would actually be able to create it. Cant really think of anything similar aside maybe evolving the planet by billions in seconds and being able to create blackholes (which consume solar systems). Still did ion2 really showcase the kind of power needed to complete such a feat? I really dont recall any such incindent.

Surfer: momentarily evolved a planet.
GL: Recreating the previously destroyed Planet OA.
GL: permanently flourishing life on a dead planet.

Surfer: Creating Black Holes.
Kyle: Absorbing Black Holes.

Tazer

Tazer
Yo.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Yat's got crazy the crazy energy manipulation feat of changing the composition of an entire star. And John Stewart would've recreated an entire solar system if his ring had enough power to do it....Ion 2 didn't have that limitation, considering he didn't need a GL ring.

huh??

Yat only changed the visible wavelength of the star; Im not sure saying he change its composition is accurate.

and Johns Ring had the power, but came up against a limiter within said (which kinda goes against the whole purpose of the damnd thing, but hey.....)




Tazer

id369
Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



wat has *either* Ion 2.0 done to demonstrably show theyre stronger than a regular GL??







Tazer
abccoffee
I think containing Nero's, Kamakzi blast with relative ease is a good comparison.

Word of mouth from the Guardians and former GL turned Ion, should hold some weight. But I guess the lack of feats, can be partially blamed by the inexperience of housing an exotic energy source.

Originally posted by Tazer

that.




Tazer

Exactly in what issue did, Ion get retconed into a pre-exsisting symbiote. I mean its history not the nature of Ion.

I am revamping Kyle's Thread. I am short of memory on this one.

Naija boy
Originally posted by id369
Surfer: momentarily evolved a planet.
GL: Recreating the previously destroyed Planet OA.
GL: permanently flourishing life on a dead planet.


SS didnt "momentarily evolve a planet". He permanently evolved the planet and all those on it by billions of years in moments.

-also can i see the scan for the second feat? (just to know who performed it and what not)

Naija boy
Originally posted by Juntai
GL's can evolve and devolve life as well.
As well as open and close black holes.

I know. But me and Eny were directly comparing feats theyve accomplished and not really their powersets. Though out of curiosity what evolution feats do GLs have post crisis?

Oh and when has a Gl created a blackhole?

Raoul
Originally posted by Naija boy
I know. But me and Eny were directly comparing feats theyve accomplished and not really their powersets. Though out of curiosity what evolution feats do GLs have post crisis?

Oh and when has a Gl created a blackhole?

why does it matter if the feat is post crisis or not?

Naija boy
Originally posted by Raoul
why does it matter if the feat is post crisis or not?

Well i dont really want to enter into the validity of Pre-crisis vs Post crisis debate right now so ill just say that Gls of nowadays are certainly not written at that level of power anymore (or even remotely close) so i would think that we are trying to compare gls to surfer based on their current capabilites.

Raoul
Originally posted by Naija boy
Well i dont really want to enter into the validity of Pre-crisis vs Post crisis debate right now so ill just say that Gls of nowadays are certainly not written at that level of power anymore (or even remotely close) so i would think that we are trying to compare gls to surfer based on their current capabilites.

sad

stick out tongue

and they are written pretty impressively, which goes unrecognised by many (not you in particular), which i think is a shame, their universe has just been expanded to have more enemies on their level...

even if you want to argue the differences between pre and post crisis GL's, the difference isn't that huge, imo.

Naija boy
Originally posted by Raoul
sad

stick out tongue

and they are written pretty impressively, which goes unrecognised by many (not you in particular), which i think is a shame, their universe has just been expanded to have more enemies on their level...


True the high level Gls are definitely high herald class.

Raoul
Originally posted by Naija boy
True the high level Gls are definitely high herald class.

aye, very much so.

still give norrin the win against any of em one on one, but with this amalgam? i dunno. that's a lot of feats to consider, even post crisis.

Naija boy
Originally posted by Raoul
aye, very much so.

still give norrin the win against any of em one on one, but with this amalgam? i dunno. that's a lot of feats to consider, even post crisis.

Yeah i give norrin the win in a one on one scenario as well.

In this scenario, well..............................................im sticking with my boy norrin. stick out tongue

Enyalus
Originally posted by Tazer
Yat only changed the visible wavelength of the star; Im not sure saying he change its composition is accurate.

and Johns Ring had the power, but came up against a limiter within said (which kinda goes against the whole purpose of the damnd thing, but hey.....)
Changing the visible-light wavelength involves changing the core temperature of the star and possibly even reworking the thermonuclear fusion processes producing the star's power. So yeah, I'd count it as changing its composition.

I agree. smile
Originally posted by Raoul
why does it matter if the feat is post crisis or not?
'Cause Pre and Post Crisis rings work differently? And that Oa was effected by COIE, wasn't it? The only ones who supposedly weren't was 4th World.

Raoul
Originally posted by Naija boy
Yeah i give norrin the win in a one on one scenario as well.

In this scenario, well..............................................im sticking with my boy norrin. stick out tongue

laughing out loud

Originally posted by Enyalus
Changing the visible-light wavelength involves changing the core temperature of the star and possibly even reworking the thermonuclear fusion processes producing the star's power. So yeah, I'd count it as changing its composition.

I agree. smile

'Cause Pre and Post Crisis rings work differently? And that Oa was effected by COIE, wasn't it? The only ones who supposedly weren't was 4th World.

the rings weren't changed until years after the crisis, iirc. OA was involved, yes, but there was nothing to suggest that it had been somehow changed.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Raoul
laughing out loud



the rings weren't changed until years after the crisis, iirc. OA was involved, yes, but there was nothing to suggest that it had been somehow changed.
Everything was changed when the universes were merged. 4th World was the only thing specifically stated to have not been affected (watch - Galan with come in here and throw up scans of The Shade or something, but you get my drift).

Since it wasn't stated to have not been affected, and everything else was affected...I'm going to make the safe leap in logic and assume that Oa changed post-Crisis, along with the rest of the mainstream DCU/New Earth/Earth-0.

Raoul
Originally posted by Enyalus
Everything was changed when the universes were merged. 4th World was the only thing specifically stated to have not been affected (watch - Galan with come in here and throw up scans of The Shade or something, but you get my drift).

Since it wasn't stated to have not been affected, and everything else was affected...I'm going to make the safe leap in logic and assume that Oa changed post-Crisis, along with the rest of the mainstream DCU/New Earth/Earth-0.

then we, as we so often are, are in disagreement.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Raoul
then we, as we so often are, are in disagreement.
I think you get off on it. eek!

Raoul
Originally posted by Enyalus
I think you get off on it. eek!

sorry honey, i'm not that easy to please.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Raoul
sorry honey, i'm not that easy to please.
Bada tells me differently.

Raoul
Originally posted by Enyalus
Bada tells me differently.

well, he's the easiest of the easy. what would he know.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Raoul
well, he's the easiest of the easy. what would he know.
laughing out loud

Tazer
Yo.

Originally posted by id369
abccoffee
I think containing Nero's, Kamakzi blast with relative ease is a good comparison.

Word of mouth from the Guardians and former GL turned Ion, should hold some weight. But I guess the lack of feats, can be partially blamed by the inexperience of housing an exotic energy source.

I dont know about containing it, but he certainly did a keen job converting it into something useful (crystal egg paperweight anyone??)

word-of-mouth only works if his succeeding feats/usage of the Ion-power supported it, and they havent.

sadly.......



Originally posted by id369
Exactly in what issue did, Ion get retconed into a pre-exsisting symbiote. I mean its history not the nature of Ion.

I am revamping Kyle's Thread. I am short of memory on this one.

Green Lantern: Sinestro Corps Special #1; the look on Kyles face pretty much mirrored my own when it happened. sad




Tazer

Juntai
Originally posted by Enyalus
Everything was changed when the universes were merged. 4th World was the only thing specifically stated to have not been affected (watch - Galan with come in here and throw up scans of The Shade or something, but you get my drift).

Since it wasn't stated to have not been affected, and everything else was affected...I'm going to make the safe leap in logic and assume that Oa changed post-Crisis, along with the rest of the mainstream DCU/New Earth/Earth-0. Those stories are still in continuity to GL though. They never recieved a similar complete story overhaul, like say Wondewoman, Superman, Batman, the, Justice League, etc, etc. Their story has continued down the same path as it ever did, and all of those events still happened.

It's really up to the thread starter if we're counting those feats or not. They clearly don't do some of those things that used to be common to them, and when they do, it's like a monumental event in that storyline.

Juntai
Originally posted by Tazer

Green Lantern: Sinestro Corps Special #1; the look on Kyles face pretty much mirrored my own when it happened. sad




Tazer "OH NO IM BEING RETCONNED!"

Tazer
Yo.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Changing the visible-light wavelength involves changing the core temperature of the star and possibly even reworking the thermonuclear fusion processes producing the star's power. So yeah, I'd count it as changing its composition.

so basically he turned up the gas, and POSSIBLY boosted its fusion process? yea, its still not that impressive since a regular GL has done that already.


Originally posted by Enyalus
'Cause Pre and Post Crisis rings work differently? And that Oa was effected by COIE, wasn't it? The only ones who supposedly weren't was 4th World.

theats not true actually; as a matter of fact GL was 1 of the few titles that suffered the LEAST amount of changes post-C (if U can even say it was affected *at all*), and the only changes that came to the Ring were when Kyle was introduced (some 8yrs later.)




Tazer

-V-
Silver Surfer FTW

Tazer
Yo.

Originally posted by Juntai
Those stories are still in continuity to GL though. They never recieved a similar complete story overhaul, like say Wondewoman, Superman, Batman, the, Justice League, etc, etc. Their story has continued down the same path as it ever did, and all of those events still happened.

MOSTLY.......altho Emerald Dawn did change a few things.




Tazer

id369
Originally posted by Naija boy
SS didnt "momentarily evolve a planet". He permanently evolved the planet and all those on it by billions of years in moments.

-also can i see the scan for the second feat? (just to know who performed it and what not)
These are the two feats I commented about.

Rann-Thanagar War #06
http://g.imagehost.org/t/0177/Untitled-Scanned-07.jpg http://g.imagehost.org/t/0524/Untitled-Scanned-20.jpg

http://g.imagehost.org/view/0177/Untitled-Scanned-07
http://g.imagehost.org/view/0524/Untitled-Scanned-20


Green Lantern Legacy: The Last Will and Testament of Hall Jordan
http://g.imagehost.org/t/0710/GLLegacy_pg101.jpghttp://g.imagehost.org/t/0128/GLLegacy_pg102.jpghttp://g.imagehost.org/t/0434/GLLegacy_pg103.jpghttp://g.imagehost.org/t/0237/GLLegacy_pg104105.jpghttp://g.imagehost.org/t/0341/GLLegacy_pg106.jpg

http://g.imagehost.org/0710/GLLegacy_pg101.jpg
http://g.imagehost.org/0128/GLLegacy_pg102.jpg
http://g.imagehost.org/0434/GLLegacy_pg103.jpg
http://g.imagehost.org/view/0237/GLLegacy_pg104105
http://g.imagehost.org/0341/GLLegacy_pg106.jpg

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



I dont know about containing it, but he certainly did a keen job converting it into something useful (crystal egg paperweight anyone??)

word-of-mouth only works if his succeeding feats/usage of the Ion-power supported it, and they havent.

sadly.......





Tazer
Looks to me like the explosion had to be contained before it was converted into a paperweight. Never the less, its one of the few standing outstanding moments. No GL has done that to Nero so far.

Regardless if you think Ion Force is equal to a GL Ring. You cant deny the benefice of internalizing OA power, and directly tap into the central battery.

Prep-Man
Anyone remember Heaven's Ladder? Probably the better GL feat at anytime. Kyle has the worst lows though.

anyway, gl ftw.

Tazer
Yo.

Originally posted by id369
Looks to me like the explosion had to be contained before it was converted into a paperweight. Never the less, its one of the few standing outstanding moments. No GL has done that to Nero so far.

fair enuff on the 1st, but no other GL has done that to Nero only due to the fact that Neros only fought 3 as himself (he ambushed 2 others looking like Kyle), and that specific came about due to some hidden thing which only detonated in the presence of the Oans.........to say nothing of him now being dead so its not likely to EVER happen w/any1 else (until he comes back, cuz ya know he will by some other writer).

Originally posted by id369
Regardless if you think Ion Force is equal to a GL Ring. You cant deny the benefice of internalizing OA power, and directly tap into the central battery.

well, Ion 2.0 didnt tap into the CPB but was instead self-powered (atleast, thats how I read it), we've seen ppl draw directly from the CPB (or similar) in a massive amount w/differing results (Arkkis, Hal & Kyle), Id rather internalize the Ring, since doing THAT elevates a being to far more than just a more-powerful-GL (John Stewart, who became not quite an Oan, but more than just more-powerful-GL).




Tazer

Tazer
Yo.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Anyone remember Heaven's Ladder? Probably the better GL feat at anytime. Kyle has the worst lows though.

anyway, gl ftw.

he replaced machinery of a device used to hold worlds..........nice, but I *have* seen better. wink




Tazer

id369
Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



fair enuff on the 1st, but no other GL has done that to Nero only due to the fact that Neros only fought 3 as himself (he ambushed 2 others looking like Kyle), and that specific came about due to some hidden thing which only detonated in the presence of the Oans.........to say nothing of him now being dead so its not likely to EVER happen w/any1 else (until he comes back, cuz ya know he will by some other writer).





With Blackest Night kicking off, I am vary confident he will come back.




Originally posted by Tazer


well, Ion 2.0 didnt tap into the CPB but was instead self-powered (atleast, thats how I read it), we've seen ppl draw directly from the CPB (or similar) in a massive amount w/differing results (Arkkis, Hal & Kyle), Id rather internalize the Ring, since doing THAT elevates a being to far more than just a more-powerful-GL (John Stewart, who became not quite an Oan, but more than just more-powerful-GL).




Tazer

Your telling me, a GL ring has bin internalized before? When did this happen? I can only think of the time, when Guy and that chick where working as Special Ops GL, and they took a pill to substitute GL ring.

id369
What no more input on this?


I figgured it would a competitive match.

Tazer
Yo.

Originally posted by id369
With Blackest Night kicking off, I am vary confident he will come back.

its possible; couldnt tell ya how likely tho......

Originally posted by id369
Your telling me, a GL ring has bin internalized before? When did this happen? I can only think of the time, when Guy and that chick where working as Special Ops GL, and they took a pill to substitute GL ring.

John did it in GL: Mosaic; not sure which ish #.




Tazer

id369
BUMP

Have at it!peaches

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.