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Mighella, the Nightsister who gave Darth Maul a run for his money takes on Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Who wins?

Well in that case, probably she would.

I wouldn't say she gave him a run for his money.

regardless she would probably win

She didn't give maul a "run for his money", the fight barely lasted that long and she ended up pretty much cleaved in half.

she was described as hacking into him and she lost party because the charge of her power sword ran out. After that, it wasn't much of a contest as she was sliced in half

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Mighella, the Nightsister who gave Darth Maul a run for his money takes on Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Who wins?

A run for what? Maul practically LOLed when she sprayed him with lightning and then he cut her in two.

Kenobi takes this.

Kenobi too easy

Kenobi wasn't a Soresu practitioner here, and wasn't as experienced as his later self (duh). He beat Maul through circumstance and taking advantage of Maul's arrogance. And he was only competing with Maul on the Zabrak's level momentarily while tapping his rage. I can definitely see him losing this.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Kenobi wasn't a Soresu practitioner here, and wasn't as experienced as his later self (duh). He beat Maul through circumstance and taking advantage of Maul's arrogance. And he was only competing with Maul on the Zabrak's level momentarily while tapping his rage. I can definitely see him losing this.

Originally posted by bane's heart

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Kenobi wasn't a Soresu practitioner here, and wasn't as experienced as his later self (duh). He beat Maul through circumstance and taking advantage of Maul's arrogance. And he was only competing with Maul on the Zabrak's level momentarily while tapping his rage. I can definitely see him losing this.

Through circumstance? You make it sound like it's some sort of an unfair victory. Maul failed to defeat Kenobi due to a personal weakness.

Also, Kenobi contended with Maul and defeated him. Mighella is a hell of a lot weaker than Maul. Kenobi would destroy Mighella. She's outclassed here.

Don't believe me? Skip to 3:30 in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPLXwrj7i7Q

For a considerable time in that fight, when Kenobi and Maul duel alone, Kenobi seemingly has the upper hand. He goes as far as splitting Maul's lightsaber and putting him to the ground. He was pushing him back. Maul had to intervene with the force in order to subdue Kenobi. We never see any glaring difference between the two and their lightsaber skills.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Kenobi wasn't a Soresu practitioner here, and wasn't as experienced as his later self (duh). He beat Maul through circumstance and taking advantage of Maul's arrogance. And he was only competing with Maul on the Zabrak's level momentarily while tapping his rage. I can definitely see him losing this.

This "circumstance", meaning he went on the offensive and capitalized on Maul's arrogance. His victory was no fluke. And Maul's fight with Mighella was hilarious. Kenobi would win this rather easily.

the circumstance meaning, while maul was toying with him, he was able to take his masters lightsaber and cut him in half, i would presume. It was a fluke

No, it wasn't.

Originally posted by bane's heart
the circumstance meaning, while maul was toying with him, he was able to take his masters lightsaber and cut him in half, i would presume. It was a fluke
Wow, so I'm assuming by that statement you meaned he slipped and accidentally forced pulled his masters lightsaber to himself, flipped over Maul and then slipped again, cutting him in half?

That fellow must be accident prone.

Originally posted by Genesis
Through circumstance? You make it sound like it's some sort of an unfair victory. Maul failed to defeat Kenobi due to a personal weakness.

Also, Kenobi contended with Maul and defeated him. Mighella is a hell of a lot weaker than Maul. Kenobi would destroy Mighella. She's outclassed here.

Don't believe me? Skip to 3:30 in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPLXwrj7i7Q

For a considerable time in that fight, when Kenobi and Maul duel alone, Kenobi seemingly has the upper hand. He goes as far as splitting Maul's lightsaber and putting him to the ground. He was pushing him back. Maul had to intervene with the force in order to subdue Kenobi. We never see any glaring difference between the two and their lightsaber skills. You misinterpreted me. I said Kenobi contended with Maul "on the Zabrak's level." But that was while he was tapping his rage. Maul then proceeded to Force push him over the side. If Maul hadn't been arrogant and overconfident, he could have "killed" Kenobi. But Kenobi capitalized on Maul's stupidity had killed him in turn. Kenobi did NOT defeat Maul in combat, as Maul did to Qui-Gon, he defeated him via clever use of the Force and being opportunistic.

Saying Kenobi legitimately defeated Maul in single combat is like saying Palpatine defeated Plagueis in single combat. One got the jump on the other while his guard was down, and one got the jump on the other while his guard was down.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You misinterpreted me. I said Kenobi contended with Maul "on the Zabrak's level." But that was while he was tapping his rage. Maul then proceeded to Force push him over the side. If Maul hadn't been arrogant and overconfident, he could have "killed" Kenobi. But Kenobi capitalized on Maul's stupidity had killed him in turn. Kenobi did NOT defeat Maul in combat, as Maul did to Qui-Gon, he defeated him via clever use of the Force and being opportunistic.
That's part of combat.


Wait what? You're comparing killing someone in their sleep to killing someone who's watching you but won't take the final blow?

Genesis
Through circumstance?Relative to a strict one vs. one match as we'd have it here, yes. He had Qui-Gon Jinn, a Jedi Master and legendary swordsman, fighting alongside him - or for him - at almost every step of the way. After being outmatched the entire duel even with Jinn's assistance he takes on Maul alone and gets thrown into a pit.

It isn't "unfair," it just isn't really relevant to the Versus forum. Anakin crippled Mace Windu, Han Solo killed the Emperor. Surely you won't argue those as legitimate victories here, because the "victor" in those situations didn't actually defeat anyone in personal combat.

One that we don't take into account here. No CIS.

Nonsense. I suggest you skip to 4:07 in the video posted and watch very closely as Maul throws Obi-Wan over the side of a pit, where the Padawan proceeds to hang on for dear life, completely at Maul's mercy.

So is Obi-Wan.

Prove it.

This is when he is tapping into his rage, enhancing his abilities with the dark side. The NEC makes it clear, through Obi-Wan's own testimonial, that Maul took advantage of this by feeding off of his hatred.

Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon together couldn't beat Maul. Qui-Gon alone couldn't beat him, Obi-Wan alone - even with the added advantage of his rage - couldn't beat him.

That's enough for me.

Originally posted by Eminence
It isn't "unfair," it just isn't really relevant to the Versus forum. Anakin crippled Mace Windu, Han Solo killed the Emperor. Surely you won't argue those as legitimate victories here, because the "victor" in those situations didn't actually defeat anyone in personal combat.
Then surely you don't call Maul using the force in a saber fight fair either, if we're going to go that route. That was his only advantage once Obiwan tapped into his rage. In my opinion Maul's arrogance and his force using cancel each other out, and make it a legitimate victory.


Again, in a pure lightsaber battle, Obiwan not only held his own but pushed Maul back. Maul had to use the force to gain an advantage.


Read above.


Not in saber combat.


Lol. Prove Obiwan is "a hell of a lot weaker than maul."


Where was the advantage exactly faunus? We've all seen the fight. Where is the advantage? Oh you mean the force push? Gotcha.


Or how about the fact that Obiwan did better alone than he did with Maul? And it took Maul to use a force maneuver during the saber bout to gain any kind of advantage.

Originally posted by Genesis

Don't believe me? Skip to 3:30 in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPLXwrj7i7Q

For a considerable time in that fight, when Kenobi and Maul duel alone, Kenobi seemingly has the upper hand. He goes as far as splitting Maul's lightsaber and putting him to the ground. He was pushing him back. Maul had to intervene with the force in order to subdue Kenobi. We never see any glaring difference between the two and their lightsaber skills.

Interesting how you say "He goes as far as splitting Maul's lightsaber and putting him to the ground" as if that's some sign of Maul being inferior, yet you completely ignore how Maul put Kenobi on the ground TWICE while simultaneously fighting Qui-Gonn (plus the third kick, but Kenobi landed on his feet that time).

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Interesting how you say "He goes as far as splitting Maul's lightsaber and putting him to the ground" as if that's some sign of Maul being inferior, yet you completely ignore how Maul put Kenobi on the ground TWICE while simultaneously fighting Qui-Gonn (plus the third kick, but Kenobi landed on his feet that time).

Obiwan did better by himself and once he became enraged and he WAS pushing Maul back.

since when does using the force, let alone force push make it an illegitamate victory?

Originally posted by bane's heart
since when does using the force, let alone force push make it an illegitamate victory?

I'm not saying it's illegitimate, but if you're going to call Obiwan's victory just that, then using the same standards, I would call Maul's force push a last resort when he was getting pushed back.

Obi-Wan Kenobi did defeat Darth Maul in a combat situation. This is an obvious fact. However, this defeat was due in large because of Maul's arrogance (as stated above) and Obi-Wan Kenobi's cunning (also as stated above). So... to a certain extent, both sides of that particular debate can be seen as being correct. However, If Maul and Kenobi were to do it all again, then I believe Darth Maul would likely take the next 8 or 9 battles (out of a 10 set), as I doubt he'd make the same or even a similar mistake again, especially against the same opponent that just sliced him in half.

Originally posted by Darth Sevius
Obi-Wan Kenobi did defeat Darth Maul in a combat situation. This is an obvious fact. However, this defeat was due in large because of Maul's arrogance (as stated above) and Obi-Wan Kenobi's cunning (also as stated above). So... to a certain extent, both sides of that particular debate can be seen as being correct. However, If Maul and Kenobi were to do it all again, then I believe Darth Maul would likely take the next 8 or 9 battles (out of a 10 set), as I doubt he'd make the same or even a similar mistake again, especially against the same opponent that just sliced him in half.

I have no doubt that at that point in their careers, Maul was more powerful than Obiwan(unless he became enraged). However, this is the battle in question and it was an even contest for the most part. At the very least, there is NO evidence that Obiwan is "a lot weaker than Maul", as Faunus has asserted.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
I have no doubt that at that point in their careers, Maul was more powerful than Obiwan(unless he became enraged). However, this is the battle in question and it was an even contest for the most part. At the very least, there is NO evidence that Obiwan is "a lot weaker than Maul", as Faunus has asserted.

I agree that he wasn't "a lot weaker than Darth Maul". But he was the lesser of the two as far as strict lightsaber to lightsaber combat goes. I think that Obi-Wan's cunning serves to level the playing field some, but not enough to overcome Maul on anything resembling a regular or semi-regular basis (at this point in his training).

Yea, he was the lesser of the two for sure, unless he used his rage, in which case it was a lot closer.

No doubt. As a matter of fact, that's one of my favorite lightsaber dueling sequences.

Where is Qui Gon hailed as a legendary swordsman? I thought he was hailed as a legendary Jedi. This doesn't mean he's the greatest swordsman.



No, but you must remember that Maul hasn't defeated Kenobi either. There's no evidence to suggest that, if that fight had continued, Maul would've emerged victorious. Maul is the one who ended it with the push, remember?





"CIS?"




You're not paying attention to the video very closely. Maul is effectively being forced into a defensive stance against Kenobi. As soon as he begins failing at Lightsaber combat, he holds out his hand and force pushes Kenobi as an alternative.





Not quite.




Mighella couldn't contend with a man Kenobi put down. She's not in the same class that these Jedi/Sith are in. She's a tier downwards, methinks.



Okay. I don't understand how this changes anything. It's awfully irrelevant. Kenobi still surfaced the skill to push Maul back and outclass him.




In Kenobi's defense, he may work better alone. Some swordsman maybe prefer to duel one on one.

when qui gon sparred with mace windu, they couldn't best each other so i would say he is pretty good. And as stated before, obiwan had to use his rage. If he didn't he would probably be dead

Originally posted by Genesis
Where is Qui Gon hailed as a legendary swordsman? I thought he was hailed as a legendary Jedi. This doesn't mean he's the greatest swordsman.

In the TPM novel there's a line saying Qui-Gonn was one of the best swordsman in the Order, or something along those lines. I can't recall the exact words, but it did refer specifically to his swordsmanship.

Originally posted by Genesis
No, but you must remember that Maul hasn't defeated Kenobi either. There's no evidence to suggest that, if that fight had continued, Maul would've emerged victorious. Maul is the one who ended it with the push, remember?

Maul defeated Qui-Gonn who at that point was a better swordsman than Kenobi (yes I know, ABC isn't conclusive proof), he had the upper hand throughout most of the fight. He landed three blows on Kenobi, while Kenobi only got in one. Heck, a case could even be made that he was starting to tire, since he had been fighting two opponents (thus having to work twice as hard).


Originally posted by Genesis
"CIS?"

It stands for Character Induced Stupidity. Basically it's when a character in a "Vs" has certain personality traits that their opponent can exploit. For example, a character gloating when their foe is at their mercy rather than just finishing them off (thus allowing the foe to regain the upper hand) is CIS.


Originally posted by Genesis
You're not paying attention to the video very closely. Maul is effectively being forced into a defensive stance against Kenobi. As soon as he begins failing at Lightsaber combat, he holds out his hand and force pushes Kenobi as an alternative.

First, the fact that an opponent is defending doesn't neccessarily mean they're losing. For example, the novel notes that when Maul was seemingly retreating from Qui-Gonn and Kenobi he was in fact luring them to a site of his choice.

Second that was the only point in the entire fight that Kenobi had the upper hand. Trying to say he's a better fighter, because at ONE POINT, he had the upper hand seems pretty suspect to me.

Plus, that was only due to his determination to avenge his teacher. Against Mighella (or any other opponent) he won't have the same motivation.

It's like when Anakin fought Dooku (RotS). Anakin unleashed his full fury against Dooku because he had a personal grudge against him. That isn't a state he could achieve against just anyone.


Originally posted by Genesis
Mighella couldn't contend with a man Kenobi put down. She's not in the same class that these Jedi/Sith are in. She's a tier downwards, methinks.

Again, Kenobi didn't "put Maul down" purely by being a better swordsman. In a different time and place, Maul would most likely have prevailed.

And she did contend with Maul until her sword broke.

Good post. I believe I've been defeated here.

Nice work.

Originally posted by Genesis
Good post. I believe I've been defeated here.

Nice work.

Thanks.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Maul defeated Qui-Gonn who at that point was a better swordsman than Kenobi (yes I know, ABC isn't conclusive proof), he had the upper hand throughout most of the fight. He landed three blows on Kenobi, while Kenobi only got in one. Heck, a case could even be made that he was starting to tire, since he had been fighting two opponents (thus having to work twice as hard).
I think the Phantom Menace novel states that he wasn't tiring at all.




This is a far cry from Faunus' hilarious assertion that Obiwan is a hell of a lot weaker than Maul.


Again, Kenobi may be a better fighter by himself. Hell, Anakin did a hell of a lot better against Dooku than when he was teamed up with Obiwan.


How about the motivation to stop a dark sider? And Mighella is firmly below Maul so why would he need the same motivation?

One's not enough. Two for each shall suffice:

^ This is why I like you, sir.

DS, I'll get back to you sometime tomorrow. I have my entire response prepared, I am simply waiting on oneofmybitchessomeone to provide me with the quote from JvS . Suffice to say, however, you are entirely wrong on everything and, unlike Genesis - the one I'd responded to and the one with the grace to concede me, whether he'll admit it or not; chilled monkey gets secondary credit] - you don't seem to actually be making much of a point. Rather, you're just being annoying. As such, I will be forced to do things to you.

Prepare.

Originally posted by Eminence
^ This is why I like you, sir.

DS, I'll get back to you sometime tomorrow. I have my entire response prepared, I am simply waiting on oneofmybitchessomeone to provide me with the quote from JvS . Suffice to say, however, you are entirely wrong on everything and, unlike Genesis - the one I'd responded to and the one with the grace to concede me, whether he'll admit it or not; chilled monkey gets secondary credit] - you don't seem to actually be making much of a point. Rather, you're just being annoying. As such, I will be forced to do things to you.

Prepare.

1. I have JvS
2. If I'm being annoying, what does that make the fool who makes hilarious claims like "lolz Obiwan is a hell of a lot weaker than Maul!"
3. Looks like I HAVE made a point, otherwise you wouldn't troll in a weak attempt to annoy me.
4. If you want to annoy me, tell me your parents 401k is growing.

1. Good. Then give me the line.
2.
3. "Troll?" Lol, DS, we've been down this road.
4. My parents' 401k is growing. Their self hate makes them strong.

Originally posted by Eminence
1. Good. Then give me the line.
2.
3. "Troll?" Lol, DS, we've been down this road.
4. My parents' 401k is growing. Their self hate makes them strong.


1. You haven't asked for anything. What line are you looking for.
2. big surprise.
3. Right, except you seem to either be delusional or you also lacks self awareness. Either way it's hilarious.
4. Yea, that's annoying. Tell your parents their money is going to be worthless in the next 2 years.

1. The line about Obi-Wan tapping into his rage. The one from his perspective.
2.
3.
4. No.

Originally posted by Eminence
1. The line about Obi-Wan tapping into his rage. The one from his perspective.
2.
3.
4. No.

1. Let me get it sec.
2. Gay
3. Gay
4. I WOULD explain why but I don't think you'll follow.

"When the last laser door lifted, I gave in to my anger as I charged the dark warrior. I absolutely wanted to destroy him. He used my anger against me, actually fed off my fury, gaining strength as I exhausted my own. I lost my lightsaber and he had me. But then I saw my Master's weapon and as I reached out for it, I heard Qui-Gon's words within me."

Sorry this took an hour; I had to go get movie tickets. I'm off to see the wizards tomorrow.

Now...Dr McBeefington
Then surely you don't call Maul using the force in a saber fight fair either, if we're going to go that route.Not even remotely similar.

Emphasis mine.

You're also wrong about Maul's superiority in the Force being his only advantage. While I'm not sure you've realized, I'm concerned with Obi-Wan in his natural, serene state, because that's the one who'll be fighting in this thread. Bloodlusted, sure, he can compete with Maul on even footing, but only for a few precious moments.The very act of empowering himself gives Maul yet another advantage. He chose to end the engagement with a Force push, but this testimonial makes it clear that he was going to win anyway. With the rage, Obi-Wan exhausts himself as Maul strengthens himself, and without that rage Obi-Wan has absolutely nothing on him.

In terms of skill with a lightsaber, there's no comparison. Maul overcame Qui-Gon Jinn in single combat. This is the same Qui-Gon who regularly sparred with Mace Windu and Anoon Bondara - a duelist of legendary (if sometimes exaggerated) repute, and one whom Maul happened to thoroughly outclass - on even terms, the same Qui-Gon whose tutor proclaimed him "one of the best taught in more than 400 years in the Order." The same Qui-Gon who conceded that Maul was "more than his match in weapons training."

Maul, as you know, was a Juyo practitioner, and had therefore mastered multiple saber styles to a high degree. Obi-Wan is a skillful Ataru practitioner, but Qui-Gon explicitly noted in the TPM novel that "the younger Jedi was not yet his equal." So under his own power, he "isn't the equal" of someone whom Maul was "more than a match" for.

Angry or not, he loses.

Miserably.

No.

For a few seconds.

See above.

That isn't a rebuttal. Concession accepted, no one has proven that Obi-Wan "outclasses" Mighella, Eminence wins again.


Hint:Obi-Wan did better alone because he was enraged.

Then he lost anyway.

Besides, Maul had the advantage the entire duel, controlling the fight with "astonishing ease" even when Obi-Wan had one of the greatest swordsmen in the Order fighting at his side. Maul was a better duelist, a more tactful fighter, a superior Force user, and could match and outlast Obi-Wan's rage. He has all the advantages in the world.

Originally posted by Eminence
Sorry this took an hour; I had to go get movie tickets. I'm off to see the wizards tomorrow.
I'm sure you are. I hope you found a (barely)legal girl that's willing to watch such hilarity.


You're saying Obiwan won ONLY because of circumstance. How is that different than Maul being pushed back and the only way he gained the advantage was using a force maneuver? And I'm not sure the quote does you any good because it doesn't say much for the actual fight that we've seen.




Testimonial Faunus? His testimonial also makes it clear that Maul knew they were going to defeat them so he split them up. Isn't that contradicted by I forget, which other source that states Maul was getting stronger while the two were getting weaker? I never once claimed that without rage Obiwan was equal to Maul. That claim would be as ridiculous as Obiwan being a hell of a lot weaker than Maul.



He isn't the equal according to Qui-Gon.


Now it's angry or not? You made it clear that we're talking about a peaceful Obiwan, who wouldn't defeat Maul. Angry Obiwan? He more than held his own.



Yet you haven't proven that Maul is miles ahead of Obiwan. Nor is there any proof that mighella is in the same league as Obiwan. I'd call this delusion #1 on your part in this post.


Yes, by a force maneuver. Just like Maul lost because of his overconfidence. See how those two cancel each othero ut?


Which really helped him out in the end.

One thing I forgot to add to Faunus' contention that there's no proof Obiwan>Mighella.

Mighella used the dark side to fight Maul and she couldn't touch him. Obiwan became enraged, and used some extent of the dark side, and very nearly defeated Maul. While I agree that Obiwan is generally going to be peaceful, it doesn't look like Mighella is equipped beat him in any kind of a battle.

Stop fighting plz.

It's upsetting me.

DS
I'm sure you are. I hope you found a (barely)legal girl that's willing to watch such hilarity.I have. But this is a movie I'd actually like to watch.

And unlike you, I don't have to worry about the issue of legality for another few months. If anything happens, it'd be her fault.

Yes.

Obi-Wan hanging unarmed on the edge of a bottomless pit with his triumphant opponent standing over him, then conveniently finding a lightsaber to use, is circumstance. Maul using the Force to disarm an opponent he'd already worn out and outclassed isn't.

I mean, how are they at all the same?

It doesn't contradict it in any way, if that's the implication.

... Where?

I have no idea what you're talking about. The TPM novel confirms that Qui-Gon was exhausting himself due to age and notes that Maul was "stronger" than Obi-Wan, that line from JvS confirms that Obi-Wan quickly drained himself while using his rage and Maul fed off of it.

It'd be considerably more ridiculous, because it'd be dead wrong while the other claim wouldn't be.

Who's trained him for twelve years and knows him inside out.

I know we hold a lot of in-universe lines under scrutiny, but there's no arguing this one.

Angry Obi-Wan loses, regular Obi-Wan loses even harder. This isn't difficult to follow, DS.

This is all addressed in the previous post. You're grasping at straws.



I never said she's in the same league as Obi-Wan, I said no one had proven that Obi-Wan "outclassed" her.

Your reading comprehension never fails to amaze.

No.

Again, reread the last post. Or have someone read it to you, and then I'll break the difficult parts down for you.

Concession accepted. You're on a roll.

She stopped him mid-leap with a burst of lightning and for a few moments had him on his knees.

Obi-Wan became enraged, cut Maul's lightsaber in half, exhausted himself, and got thrown into a pit. In the context of a versus match, this is more impressive... how?

A contention that remains unproven.

Originally posted by Eminence
I have. But this is a movie I'd actually like to watch.

And unlike you, I don't have to worry about the issue of legality for another few months. If anything happens, it'd be her fault.
Lucky lucky man.


Wonderful, and i'm saying that Maul ONLY got the advantage because he used a force push during a saber bout. My contention is supported by the fight scene.


Using a force push against an opponent who was pushing him back, as a desperation attempt? That's taking the easy way out. And while you're claiming we're discussing Obiwan in his natural state(peaceful), Maul in his natural state would be arrogant then.


The same in terms of circumstance. Maul was getting pushed back and used a force maneuver in a saber fight. Whether it's cheating or not is irrelevant. He WAS getting pushed back and he only gained the upper hand once he used the force push. He capitalized on Obiwan's carelessness(closest to the pit). Then Obiwan capitalized on Maul's arrogance and won.


JvS. Here's the quote.

"Just as I sensed that the creature was aware that Qui-Gon and I would beat him, he found a way to divide us."


And the actual fight(since you are one of the people who would take an actual scene over quotes) confirms an angry Obiwan pushing Maul back. I'm not debating whether or not Maul would win had the fight been extended, that much is obvious. What I am contending is Obiwan more than held his own.


prove it



Angry Obiwan wins due to anger+arrogance. Peaceful Obiwan loses to arrogant Maul. REALITY isn't hard to follow Faunus.


Actually first you claimed we're talking about Obiwan in his natural state, as peaceful. Then you make the argument that whether Obiwan was angry or not, he'll lose miserably. This is blatantly arguing facts. Obiwan held his grown and pushed Maul back in a SABER battle. He think KILLED Maul. Unless you're going to state that Maul isn't going to be arrogant anymore, the contention that Obiwan will lose or rather lose miserably in any state is wrong.




Go ahead and show me where I said THAT was your claim? What's that? Oh I didn't? YOUR reading comprehension skills on the other hand, don't surprise me anymore. In fact, if I were to nitpick as you love doing so much, it was your rebuttal to "being a hell of a lot weaker than Maul", being that "so is Obiwan". On the surface, it seems you are implying that at the VERY LEAST, they are in the same league. But that's only if we nitpick of course.


You're really confused now. You're claiming Maul won a saber duel with a force push(hilarious btw). I'm claiming that Obiwan capitalizing on Maul's arrogance is the same as Maul capitalizing on Obiwan's lack of attention/positioning/etc. Try and follow along.


Gotta love how that defense mechanism is contradictory to reality. Keep at it champ


Post the scan. As I recall, Maul was laughing and proceeded to pwn her very quickly.


Please show us at what time in the video, did Obiwan appear exhausted. You often argue in favor of videos over quotes, so it's funny that you're back peddling now. Unsurprisingly but nonetheless funny.


According to you of course. Once again, Obiwan pushed back and ultimately killed Maul, whereas Mighella got her ass handed to her. Reality prevails again Faunus.

I'm going to respond to this later, maybe tomorrow or the day after. You aren't being any denser than usual, but my tolerance for you is randomly at an all time low and you're starting to get on my nerves.

Originally posted by Eminence
I'm going to respond to this later, maybe tomorrow or the day after. You aren't being any denser than usual, but my tolerance for you is randomly at an all time low and you're starting to get on my nerves.

Great, perhaps you'll be able to drop the prepubsecent, self esteem related superiority complex, stop bitching, and make some valid points. This doesn't include "this is true because I say so". Some things to consider while you're undoubtedly trying to increase your internet popularity:

1. Explaining how Maul force pushing Obiwan constitutes as a victory in a light saber duel.
2. Explaining why force pushing Obiwan is alright, but Obiwan capitalizing on Maul's arrogance is just plain luck.
3. Why convincing yourself is going to help you sleep better at night.
4. Getting the source material before trying to debate.

Mhm. Mhmmm.

Someone tell me if says something funny.

Becuase he created an opportunity to attack with his push during a duel and with his skills. That Obi gave him this opportunity constitutes a failing on his part.



Becuase Maul had to work for his victory. Maul gave Obi his.

I am Kilrain of the 20th Maine and I fight for the Chamberlian...

Originally posted by Eminence
Mhm. Mhmmm.

Someone tell me if says something funny.

http://xectrik.net/images/motivationalposters/english-do-you-speak-it.jpg

I bet Beef lives in... TD LAND

*ba dum bum psh*

Lucien, stay on topic. Just repeat after me: "Eminence is right. tBeef is wrong."

Actually, KMCites, you may as well profile that. You'll be using it a lot.

I'm seriously confused as to how people are unable to decipher the difference between a combative technique in the midst of a duel with two armed opponents with their guards up----and one of them killing the other when their guard is down because he was being stupid. When have we ever accepted that as legitimate argument for use in a thread's match?

I like how subtle you are. "People." It gives me chills...

Originally posted by Eminence
I like how subtle you are. "People." It gives me chills... It was all... part of the plan.


And it was f*cking horrifying, I can tell you that.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Great, perhaps you'll be able to drop the prepubsecent, self esteem related superiority complex, stop bitching, and make some valid points.


You probably want to follow that wise advice yourself...



Urm. Have you even read one of his postings? Apparently not. Or you are unable to comprehend them. Both of that options wouldn't surprise me.



Explain how arguing semantics does help your case. There is no seperation of "lightsaber duel" and "force duel" in the magnificient realms of Star Wars. But, as it just has been explained for a 100,000 times, I'm sure you didn't have the opportunity to catch up with the rest of the community on that point...



Is this coming from the same person who lecture Advent on "circumstances" not so long in the past? Wow. You may want to realize, that Maul did defeat Kenobi, fair and square, on equal ground. Once having realized that, you could arrive at the conclusion that Maul can just "toy" with an already defeated opponent, when the situation allow him to disarm his opponent and have him at a position, where said opponent is at his mercy.

This could / would happen in any given situation how exactly? Right. It won't and it can't. In any normal situation, Maul would simply kill Kenobi. End of story.



I'm fairly sure that, if anyone here can give us an answer to that question, it's yourself.



And this from Darth "I've never touched a single original SW source" Sexy, who has precisely two sources of knowledge reagarding the SWU: this forum and Woookiepedia. You're clearly the one to talk here.

I was waiting for when you were going to have one of your pseudo intellectuals from EOD back you up. What's the matter faunus, confidence shaken?

Originally posted by Eminence
I was waiting for when you were going to have one of your pseudo intellectuals from EOD back you up. What's the matter faunus, confidence shaken? i dont have to mention that faunus. You usually need backup to prevent yourself from whining like a schoolgirl. i love the continuous tdtd references though. i thought after you were ignored and virtually ridiculed, you'd stop peddling that nonsense but you're a persistent one. And Nai you are definitely the king of baseless assertions. But if we were to go by your logic, i used my psychic powers to post the quote for faunus. Way too funny.

Well technically the quotes were actually posted on these forums and I wouldn't say it would be completely out of the realm of possibility for the quotes to exist on wookiepedia.

Originally posted by OOBAEW
Well technically the quotes were actually posted on these forums and I wouldn't say it would be completely out of the realm of possibility for the quotes to exist on wookiepedia. in that case faunus would have gotten them himself. Nai isn't too bright.

Did he respond to Nebaris?!

I should report this.

Originally posted by Eminence
Did he respond to Nebaris?!

I should report this. i had no idea that was nebaris. But while reporting me make sure you tell them you still think that im tdtd so they can instruct me to ignore you again

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
And Nai you are definitely the king of baseless assertions. But if we were to go by your logic, i used my psychic powers to post the quote for faunus. Way too funny.

Urm. Excuse me.
In the years of dealing with you here, you have shown a - let me express it in a kind fashion - peerless unfamiliarity with most sources, mostly relying on stuff other people posted here (if even that) in order to "debate". This is, maybe, the reason why almost anybody here has pointed out your lack of knowledge regarding the SWU - at times.

In the present case, one might just notice your ignorance towards the source material and your absolute inability to use logical reasoning. So, just to repeat: A thought of Obi-Wan himself, a "feeling", as he descripes is, does represent a higher authority than a third person narrator (TPM novel) and, of course, the movie itself. The first stating that Maul was, basically, in control of the entire fight, and a better swordsman in comparison to both Jedi, while the latter not exactly showing the Sith Lord on the brink of defeat, correct?

This, especially, when we have the same Obi-Wan in the same source telling us that he couldn't sense the approaching Sith Lord on Tatooine, that Qui-Gon was "winded" after his brief encounter with Maul on the desert planet and that he, himself, could only hold on to the Sith for a brief time using his anger and exhausting himself with that, while Maul "fed" on that fury to become even stronger?

Even if one would accept that kind of "reasoning" - and I, personally, won't - this doesn't change the fact, that Maul himself is a superior combatant to Kenobi, who did just benefit from the circumstances - and yes: BY FAR SUPERIOR. We all have realized that you can't - and therefore don't even try to - argue this point. Trying to shift the attention away from this crucial fact also doesn't help your case.

So, just to repeat it: Maul > Obi-Wan

From this point, you may want to draw any conclusion to a speculative fight between Kenobi and Mighella. Oh. Wait. How do you manage to do that?

So because a trained Sith Lord, who has even been noted to have been one of the best Sith apprentices ever trained and descriped as "perfect weapon" by his master, can "ignore" force lightning and defeat Mighella by destroying her weapon, a Jedi padawan will be able to do the same? Just because the Padawan by luck and benefiting from the circumstances (or plain and simply put: CIS) survived his confrontation with Maul?

That's an astonishing line of thought, especially when we consider all those Jedi who have shown precisely zero defense against the force lightning ability. Yet the - comparably - inexperienced Kenobi should be able to do so? The same Kenobi that, as you have pointed out yourself multiple times here, was inable to defend himself against a freaking force push? This guy should be able to do what Maul did, when - as Mighella noted just before her death - Maul could only do so because of being what he was - a Sith Lord.

Really. You should stop thinking that Mighella was some kind of push-over. She held Maul up rather long in saber combat (which is alone worth noticing, if we take into consideration that the Sith casually destroyed Jedi before), until her blade was destroyed and then did again stop him for some seconds using her force lightning. This all performed against a being that, by Obi-Wan's own admission, was far more skilled and powerful than himself, even to such an extend that Kenobi, using his anger and completely exhausting himself, couldn't overpower this opponent.

So, while I'm fairly sure that Kenobi could outduell Mighella with a lightsaber, I'm not too confidend that he would be able to shake off one of her force lightning attacks. He may win, though. But to state that Padawan Kenobi would "own" or "easily defeat" her, when Maul himself encountered some trouble facing the Nightsister, is - by all accounts - nonsensical.



Wow. The same Faunus who quoted from the very same source in his argument - even the same page, the same description of the fight from Obi-Wan? Uh-hu. Maybe he just wanted you to prove your assertion? But I'm glad that I am not too bright, oh great genius.

Nai im no longer convincee that your stupidity has anything to do with a language barrier. I just dont think you bother to read posts anymore which explains your outlandish accusations such as me not having source material(Ive made you look like a fool concerning this on several occasions) and the fact that you think that i've ever contended Maul NOT being superior to Obiwan. Get some spectacles and read posts and people might actually start taking you seriously. Btw i dont know how you could possibly think I dont have source material since i frequently post quotes you will only find in source material. Oops there goes common sense flying over your head.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Nai im no longer convincee that your stupidity has anything to do with a language barrier. I just dont think you bother to read posts anymore which explains your outlandish accusations such as me not having source material(Ive made you look like a fool concerning this on several occasions) and the fact that you think that i've ever contended Maul NOT being superior to Obiwan. Get some spectacles and read posts and people might actually start taking you seriously. Btw i dont know how you could possibly think I dont have source material since i frequently post quotes you will only find in source material. Oops there goes common sense flying over your head.

I once found your ignorance amusing, because making a fool out of you was cheap entertainment. Now, I find it plain and simply annoying. You can now and run off to find some posts where you "made me look like a fool" or some of the - I'm sure - gazillions of postings, where you provided quotes from the original source material, instead of pointing a finger to Lightsnake or Gideon, telling people "They have the quote!"

When you're done with that, you may want to read my post instead of boring me to death with your futile trolling attempts. I may, just again, point out the "line of thought" you have used here:

1) Obi-Wan is not by far inferior to Maul.
2) Maul did easily defeat Mighella.
3) Conclusion: Obi-Wan must be able to do the same.

This appears to be the basic line of assumptions you're operating under, because otherwise, none of your postings make sense. Now guess what: Premise "1" was proven wrong by Faunus; premise "2" is utter nonsense if we take a look at the original source. What does that tell us about your conclusion?

And before you grace me with one of your hilarious attempts to point out a logical fallacy here , I may just point out that this appears to be your line of thought. Which might explain why you didn't even try to defeat my argument but, instead, tried to bait me, acting your roll as pathetic troll. This not only shows your omnipresent incapability in bringing forward / countering arguments, but also proves your true nature as the trolling and socking nobody that you are. "Oops", indeed..

Ah so instead of admitting you are known to make baseless assertions you claim i'm engaging in a strawman fallacy when i respond to said assertions. Truly hilarious nevermind the fact that its easy to respond o BS and takes time to respond to an actual argument. You can also go ahead and prove i dont have source material since you are the only one ever making this contention. Thanks for once again being the KMC comic relief Nai.

DS, he didn't say that you would be making the strawman fallacy, but that you would accuse him of doing so. See this line?

That bolded part implies that the topic at hand is Nai's presentation of your argument rather than his argument itself. So your post is either a deliberate dodge or a harmless misunderstanding. Care to try again?

yea im on my phone so i didN'T see that. Im not dodging just responding to easy points until i get back to my pc. And i will respond to our debate I just thought you were at fat camp.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
yea im on my phone so i didN'T see that. Im not dodging just responding to easy points until i get back to my pc. And i will respond to our debate I just thought you were at fat camp.

You know, I admitted defeat earlier in this thread because I was in the wrong. Is it so difficult for you to do the same?

depends on what to admit exactly? I know Maul is superior to Obiwan but this is Mighella vs. Obiwan.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
yea im on my phone so i didN'T see that. Im not dodging just responding to easy points until i get back to my pc. And i will respond to our debate I just thought you were at fat camp.
Nerd camp 'till 2day, real camp 2moro.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
I know Maul is superior to Obiwan He admitted it. Halt the presses.

where did i ever deny it or argue he wasn't lol? Go ahead and show me.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
where did i ever deny it or argue he wasn't lol? Go ahead and show me. Someone's a little obsessed *COUGH* desperate for victory *HACKING COUGH* competitive.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
where did i ever deny it or argue he wasn't lol? Go ahead and show me.

You argued that Maul can't be by far superior in comparison to Obi-Wan, when the latter basically admits this by stating that, even when utilizing his anger against the Sith Lord, he was just exhausting himself while Maul was getting stronger. This makes it pretty clear that Maul was by far superior to Kenobi.

After admiting you were wrong there, you just have to re-evaluate the strength of Mighella, who obviously is a better combatant than you gave her credit for. Considering the fact that she managed to hold Maul up for a nice period of time via saber combat (until her inferior weapon was destroyed by prolonged contact with a lightsaber - which hints that the fight wasn't short). And with her force lightning, a force attack that TPM Kenobi, to our knowledge, has no defense against, unless you want to suggest that his Dark Side knowledge equals that of Darth Maul.

Easy enough?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Someone's a little obsessed *COUGH* desperate for victory *HACKING COUGH* competitive.

SO you're admitting that I haven't made any ridiculous assumptions and you're just typing. I'm just wondering, what "victory" am I obsessed about? Do you even know what this debate is about or are you nutriding?
And obsessive? Obsessive is bitching and moaning, and then bringing in reinforcements to overcompensate for self esteem issues.

First off, even if I DID argue that, where is my argument that Maul isn't superior to Obiwan? For your sake I'm not going to repost your own accusations because they are contradictory and make you look bad. And after what you just wrote, how does that mean Maul was far superior? And my contention was ONLY that Obiwan MORE than held his own against Maul, which is validated by the actual fight scene.


I'm surprised you're being so civil. Absinthe? And I'm not saying Mighella is a push over, I'm saying that Obiwan faired a hell of a lot better than she did against Maul.

Wait.

Nai?

Lucien?

Nemesis?

Exodus?

Sorgo?!

This is like, my entire ****ing antisocial failed-forum-visiting nutriding self hating pseudointellectual posse of global rejects and trolls. My self esteem must be like...

I don't even know.

Originally posted by Eminence
Wait.

Nai?

Lucien?

Nemesis?

Exodus?

Sorgo?!

This is like, my entire ****ing antisocial failed-forum-visiting nutriding self hating pseudointellectual posse of global rejects and trolls. My self esteem must be like...

I don't even know.

Wait which one of these people aside from Nai defended you? Oh that's right, just Nai. Wtf is Exodus? Damn that delusional problem must be at an all time high.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
First off, even if I DID argue that, where is my argument that Maul isn't superior to Obiwan? For your sake I'm not going to repost your own accusations because they are contradictory and make you look bad. And after what you just wrote, how does that mean Maul was far superior? And my contention was ONLY that Obiwan MORE than held his own against Maul, which is validated by the actual fight scene.


Firstly: You have argued that Obi-Wan defeating Maul "was no fluke". This is saying that Obi-Wan defeated Maul fair and square, or at least implying that a duel between them could always go either way. Hell...you even said that Kenobi's victory had nothing to do with the present circumstances. So how about admitting that you were wrong?

Secondly: The original fight scene shows Kenobi disarmed and hanging over a bottomless pit less than 40 seconds after exchanging the first blow with the Sith Lord. In any other situation, this duel would have been over right there. Is this Kenobi "more than holding his own against Maul"? An interpretation, that - let me just point it out - ignores any other source on the issue (including Kenobi's own words), and is pretty twisted considering the fact that, you know, Kenobi was defeated in less than a minute.



How do you conclude, that Kenobi performed better than Mighella? You don't know how long Maul's duel with Mighella lasted, but considering that it was long enough to have her Darksaber be destroyed by prolonged exposure to the lightsaber, one could guess, that it lasted longer than Kenobi's little 1vs1 with Maul. Which only lasted that long because Obi-Wan was utilizing his anger. An advantage that isn't present here...

So, face it: It's entirely possible that Mighella performed better against Maul than Kenobi, and even if that shouldn't be the case, she still has force abilities at her disposal that Kenobi, for all we know, has no defense against. Which means that, even if one suggests that Mighella is a lesser swordsbeing than Padawan Kenobi (argueable), she is still the superior force user, when offensive force abilities are concerned.

It's good to see that Nai still talks a hell of a lot . . . And still kicks ass.

It pains me that you can't even remember my name. Oh, such pain!



Hey! Your in my posse, not the other way around!

DS, seriously, you need to just quit now...you're not doing yourself many favors here

Originally posted by Borbarad
Firstly: You have argued that Obi-Wan defeating Maul "was no fluke". This is saying that Obi-Wan defeated Maul fair and square, or at least implying that a duel between them could always go either way. Hell...you even said that Kenobi's victory had nothing to do with the present circumstances. So how about admitting that you were wrong?
How was it a fluke exactly? Explain how Maul's arrogance constitutes as a fluke please. if I gave an impression that Obiwan was superior to Maul in any way then I apologize. My only contention(I thought), was that an enraged Obiwan held his own, lost his ground with a force maneuver, and won because Maul got arrogant.


The same fight scene shows Obiwan attacking Maul, then defending, then breaking his lightsaber, forcing him to the ground, getting kicked by Maul and landing on his feet, and driving Maul back, where Maul decides to use the force.




could you post the scans of the fight scene with Mighella? My memory is hazy. I had the comic a few months ago.


What force abilities Nai? Other than force lightning, what have we seen? And can she compete with Obiwan in saber combat? And of course she has more offensive force maneuvers. She uses the dark side.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
How was it a fluke exactly? Explain how Maul's arrogance constitutes as a fluke please. if I gave an impression that Obiwan was superior to Maul in any way then I apologize. My only contention(I thought), was that an enraged Obiwan held his own, lost his ground with a force maneuver, and won because Maul got arrogant.


Get yourself a dictionary (yes...this is a guy from Germany telling you to do so) and look up the word "fluke". What you may find is:

fluke - noun
1. an accidental advantage; stroke of good luck: He got the job by a fluke.

Do I really have to point out Kenobi's "lucky moments" again? Okay.

a) Instead of landing on solid ground disarmed, which would have resulted in a dead Jedi moments later, Kenobi drops into the nice pit, giving Maul the chance to play macho man instead of getting rid of his opponent.

b) He manages to grap on an input nozzle which was, lucky him, deactivated. Otherwise he would have been blown down the shaft, atomized or whatever, depending on what kind of stuff they did insert through said nozzle.

c) He, luckily, has the weapon of his master lying on the spot right next to him, which he then utilized to kill his opponent who - rightly - assumed that Kenobi was disarmed.

Now, let me make it pretty clear: If one of that componets weren't there , the young padawan would have died. So, sorry to tell you: It was a fluke, that he managed to kill Maul.

The next thing is, that I don't get how you can stick to your idea that Kenobi was "holding his own" when Kenobi himself tells us that, in that 30 seconds of fighting Maul, despite using his anger, he was exhausting himself, while Maul just became stronger. I will make this one clear to you too: If Kenobi had not used his anger - which is obviously not present in every situation - Maul would possible have overwhelmed him even faster.



I don't give a flying ducky about your interpretation of the fight, when I have the words of the Kenobi himself on the issue, who states that he was definitely losing the fight even in that situation.



I have known already that you are fairly stupid, even by troll-standards. But you didn't just ask the guy that you called, I quote, a "fool" and "not so bright" because he asserted, that you - basically - have no access to original SW sources, to provide source material for you? No. Even you can't be that freaking stupid.

Furthermore: If your memory is "hazy", you may want to tell us, how you arrived at the conclusion that Obi-Wan performed far better than Mighella, without remembering the duel between Mighella and Maul. Was that one of this great Darth Sexy ideas, or did you just want to proof my "baseless assertion" that you have no idea what you're talking about?

But before you drop down dead, burried under that pile of ownage, I will just provide some scans for you. First we have two pages of actual fighting happen. Both attack, both defend, Maghilla dodges some attacks. Then this here follows:

Click Me

Maul cuts her weapon in two , she manages to recover from being disarmed with a barrage of force lightning, that puts Maul, who comes flying at her, on his knees for a brief time period, before he overcomes the lightning and kills her. This can be seen here:

Click Me

As you may notice, her lasts words are: "How can you resist? I know. I know what you must be." So she actually wonders how a single being in the Galaxy can resist a force lightning attack and, within seconds and facing her own demise, recognizes that Maul must be a Sith Lord.

She still, even after being disarmed managed to put Maul on his knees, while - in case you don't recall - Kenobi after being disarmed luckily found himself hanging just above a reactor shaft, on an inactive input nozzle. So...urm...who did perform better against Maul again?



Stop dodging the issue or stop posting, Sexy. I've pointed out thrice now, that force lightning alone could be enough to deal with Kenobi, considering that we've seen Jedi Masters utterly failing against this ability. You didn't answer the point. Try again.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Get yourself a dictionary (yes...this is a guy from Germany telling you to do so) and look up the word "fluke". What you may find is:

fluke - noun
1. an accidental advantage; stroke of good luck: He got the job by a fluke.

Do I really have to point out Kenobi's "lucky moments" again? Okay.

a) Instead of landing on solid ground disarmed, which would have resulted in a dead Jedi moments later, Kenobi drops into the nice pit, giving Maul the chance to play macho man instead of getting rid of his opponent.

b) He manages to grap on an input nozzle which was, lucky him, deactivated. Otherwise he would have been blown down the shaft, atomized or whatever, depending on what kind of stuff they did insert through said nozzle.

c) He, luckily, has the weapon of his master lying on the spot right next to him, which he then utilized to kill his opponent who - rightly - assumed that Kenobi was disarmed.

Now, let me make it pretty clear: If one of that componets weren't there , the young padawan would have died. So, sorry to tell you: It was a fluke, that he managed to kill Maul.
No Nai, a fluke would be Maul throwing Kenobi into that pit as he holds on, then tripping over himself and falling to his death through the pit. Maul's character weaknesses such as arrogance don't constitute a fluke, because as an arrogant badass, he would do the same in another situation. Kenobi was FORTUNATE enough to have held on, you are correct, but he won because Maul got arrogant, and he capitalized on it. How you perceive character weaknesses as flukes, I don't understand.


How I stick to my idea? Aren't you one of the ones (Janus and Faunus included), who always argue in favor of video over quotes? Strange that you don't in this case. I stick to my idea because it's what the fight shows, unless we're watching a different fight. I also don't put much faith in quotes because one quote says Maul was getting stronger while the duo was getting weaker, while in JvS Obiwan claims Maul sensed his demise and had to separate the duo. And for the millionth time I am NOT arguing Obiwan is on Maul's level. I have conceded on several occasions the idea that Obiwan only did so well because he was enraged and if he was in a peaceful state, he would have been defeated pretty badly.




As usual Nai, you pick and choose what sources you agree with. Unfortunately, if my interpretation is correct, then the movie contradicts the in universe admission(you love arguing sources), because it showed Obiwan holding his own.




After viewing your arguments for the past year or two, I'm convinced you're one of the last people that should call anyone stupid. With your weak house-like humor to your "Dooku would beat Revan because he was one of the greatest jedi of the order and an even greater sith!" logic, you wouldn't know the difference between a blow up doll an an actual female. Now seeing as how you're the only one who's ever asserted that I don't have source material, and me making you look retarded as usual, you can go ahead and prove your assertion. What's that Nai? You're not used to proving your own bullshit? Well then I suggest you either go blog about your own stupidity, cry to one the antediluvians, or go to your local starbucks and try to pick up chicks with poetry or your version of Plato's Republic. Since I have no doubt you're going to be bitching about this to somebody, I'll eagerly wait for a rebuttal full of more nonsense, hilarious humor, and baseless accusations. Until next time Mien fuhrer!


No, your baseless assertions is that I don't have ANY source material(pathetic even for you). If you were smart(you're not), you would have said I don't have ALL the source material which I would gladly concede. My statement was that I had the source material and vaguely remember the fight between them, so if I was wrong about it you could have always corrected me, rather than attempting to insult me without any success.


Ah yes, ownage. This is what you usually imply when you don't have anything intelligent to add and you MUST convince yourself of some kind of victory. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad and happened so often. But I'll indulge your delusions some more.


I've never denied her using offensive force maneuvers(dark side), while Kenobi didn't. I also didn't deny she was a better force user than Kenobi, She put Maul on his ass, Obiwan put Maul on his ass.




Possibly, force lightning could do the trick. Then again, Kenobi's saber could also do the trick.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
No Nai, a fluke would be Maul throwing Kenobi into that pit as he holds on, then tripping over himself and falling to his death through the pit. Maul's character weaknesses such as arrogance don't constitute a fluke, because as an arrogant badass, he would do the same in another situation. Kenobi was FORTUNATE enough to have held on, you are correct, but he won because Maul got arrogant, and he capitalized on it. How you perceive character weaknesses as flukes, I don't understand.


I can't belive that you are that dense, Sexy. The fluke is present because of all the circumstances which put Kenobi in the position to capitalize on Maul's "character weakness" at all. He wouldn't have been able to do so, while getting chopped into pieces by the Sith Lord or while falling down that nice pit - or without a second weapon that certainly came in handy. This is why the entire situation is a fluke. That you can't either accept or comprehend that, is not my problem. I won't waste any more time with another attempt to explain it to you. Debate over - you lose. Period.



No, Sexy. I argue in favor for primary source material over secondary source material, when both require an interpretation or the second is an interpretation of the first. You realize that this is not the case, when one of the combatants tells us how a certain fight went according to his view, right?

So while I would grant you the right to question the interpretation of the duel present in the TPM novel interpretation of said fight], to question the words of a fighter in regards to his own ability to win is absolute nonsense. Kenobi tells us that he was royally owned anyways and just able to stay a live for 30 seconds because of his anger.

And sorry, Sexy. You can't, apparently, even keep your own arguments consistant. You have taken the instance in which Kenobi is enraged (advantage for him) compared that to your "hazy" memory of the fight between Mighella and Maul, and then jumped to the conclusion that "Kenobi would win this rather easily". If you had "conceeded" that Obi-Wan would just have been owned faster by Maul without being enraged, none of your arguments does make any sense.




You're are trying to argue against Kenobi's words regarding his own skill with your personal interpretation of a fight. Kenobi tells us, that he was getting owned and you drop in and tell us "Urm. No. He did rather well." Sorry, Sexy. This doesn't make any sense. Especially not, when we consider how fast that fight ended - with Kenobi being disarmed and, essentially defeated.




If you were smart, Sexy, you would know what hyperbole is, and don't waste your already limited amount of brain cells to point out again and again, how wrong that "assertion" was. If you were smart, and you aren't, you could simply post one picture showing the piles of SW sources present in the cupboard under the stairs the carbage bin you live in your dorm room your luxurios penthouse, instead of asking me to prove a negative. That you don't do this, actually just furthers the idea that my "assertion" was not entirely wrong and it makes you look like an ass-clown.



Sexy. You realize that everyone here did acknowledge my victory over you, including Lightsnake, which alone should make your think...
So much for the "delusions".



Thanks for conceeding the point.



Wow. From "Kenobi wins this easily" to "possible force lightning does the trick and Mighella wins". But I'm glad that you weren't wrong and didn't lose the debate. Anything else to say?

Child, please. You're just riding my nuts. I must have missed each and every one of them.

*cue*

That's a little racist DS. If your smart, you should probably keep the Nazi cracks to a minimum.

Originally posted by Eminence
Child, please. You're just riding my nuts.

GRMPFLTXWTFBBQ. "I hate mondays"

Originally posted by Eminence
Child, please. You're just riding my nuts. I must have missed each and every one of them.

*cue*
Here's one, i'll find more champ

Originally posted by Borbarad
I can't belive that you are that dense, Sexy. The fluke is present because of all the circumstances which put Kenobi in the position to capitalize on Maul's "character weakness" at all. He wouldn't have been able to do so, while getting chopped into pieces by the Sith Lord or while falling down that nice pit - or without a second weapon that certainly came in handy. This is why the entire situation is a fluke. That you can't either accept or comprehend that, is not my problem. I won't waste any more time with another attempt to explain it to you. Debate over - you lose. Period.
In that case, ANYTIME a character gets arrogant and loses, it's a fluke, right Nai?




Alright


Consistent. And are you referring to this:

My contention that Obiwan would easily defeat Mighella was premature, I admit that. But the contention that he WOULD beat her is based on him pushing Maul back in a saber duel, while apparently Mighella did something of the sort with the force. Naturally now I have to concede the fact that Mighella has more force maneuvers, but it also appears that Obiwan can win in a saber duel.




Well Nai, you've easily once again proven that you're dumb beyond belief, seeing as how you can't even follow the basic rules of debate. You ASSERTED that I have no source material, and seeing as how there's no proof for any of that, the burden of proof is on you. The fact that you are embarrassing yourself while trying desperately to sound intelligent, is quite sad.




Who is "everyone"?





The fact that I can admit when I'm wrong and the fact that you look a helpless retard when you can't. I'll be waiting for the proof that I have no source materials.

*Cue troll and sock name calling*

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
In that case, ANYTIME a character gets arrogant and loses, it's a fluke, right Nai?


As I said: I won't waste time explaining it to you again.





So you use a unique state Kenobi was in (read: "enraged", and your interpretation of his performance which does contradict Kenobi's own words as basis for your assertions? And you really think that the result of this kind of "reasoning" will be accurate?



You, again, don't get it. This "assertion" wasn't part of any debate, it was just a mocking exeggeration of facts. That you still waste time with it, just shows your stupidity. That's like if I would go "Proof I'm a Nazi" any time you make a comment in that direction. That would certainly make me look very smart, huh? Oh...wait...no it won't, since only 12 year old children behave that way.



Any single being posting in this thread with the exception of yourself, including Lightsnake, who - last time I checked - wasn't one of my greatest fans.



Excuse me. Faunus has proven that you're wrong on page #1 of this thread. It just took you four additional pages, to concede and - no - you didn't admit you're wrong. You're still arguing your original point, based on two illogical premises.




Why should I state the obvious?

Originally posted by Borbarad
So you use a unique state Kenobi was in (read: "enraged", and your interpretation of his performance which does contradict Kenobi's own words as basis for your assertions? And you really think that the result of this kind of "reasoning" will be accurate?
Because I used the actual video over the interpretation, so based on what I used, the reasoning was accurate. If I used the wrong sources then I was wrong. And here's my problem with Obiwan's own admission. He also claims that Maul sensed that he was going to lose, which contradicts TPM novel which states something along the lines of Maul getting stronger while both of his combatants were getting weaker.




Seeing as how you're the only one that's ever peddled this illusion, it's not facts but another part of your delusions. It's funny how if I'm wasting time with it, it's stupidity, but when you make baseless accusations that make you look like a moron, it's because you're mocking. Gotta love the double standards by an incompetent human being.




Yes, I'm arguing my original point that according to the video, Obiwan held his own. If we were to take the video as supreme canon, I would be right. If we are to take Kenobi's interpretation, then I am wrong, but not because of "illogical premises", but because I thought the wrong source took precedence over another.





Because the obvious to you, has been ignored and ridiculed on this forum, yet you still persist and make yourself look ridiculous. Then again, you're still claiming I have no sources and that I'm asking you to prove a negative, so why would I expect anything from an incompetent foreigner?

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Because I used the actual video over the interpretation, so based on what I used, the reasoning was accurate. If I used the wrong sources then I was wrong.

No, it wasn't. Because even if you take the video, you still have Obi-Wan in a unique state, that he won't be in while facing Mighella. Thus your "reasoning" is devoid of any logic, because the performance of TPM Kenobi during this 30 seconds of duelling Maul is not an example of Kenobi's every day duelling abilities.



How about not trying to play IKC - only one of the roles you miserably fail at - and stop your hilarious attempts to spot and point out logical fallacies. A double-standard? So, when exactly have I asked you to prove that one of your insults was correct, which would be necessary for me to commit a double-standard?



Just look above and see why this is "illogical" - because you didn't take Kenobi's unique state into consideration and attempted to apply his skill level shown there to another fight.



Sexy...
Didn't I just tell you to stop the trolling? You can make a poll to see how many people here believe you and how many people believe my words. Have fun with it. I'm not interested in your personal perceptions of reality or in the size of your e-peen. Time to get that into your head.

Originally posted by Borbarad
How about not trying to play IKC - only one of the roles you miserably fail at - and stop your hilarious attempts to spot and point out logical fallacies. A double-standard? So, when exactly have I asked you to prove that one of your insults was correct, which would be necessary for me to commit a double-standard?
IKC? Wtf? Wow Nai you respond to my point about you making bullshit assumptions with...Bullshit assumptions?
And the double standard would you be peddling the illusion that I have no sources, and then criticizing me when I prove your bullshit wrong. That's a double standard, get it? I can't be any clearer.




I didn't take his normal state into consideration and that's where I was wrong. However my main argument was about Kenobi's performance against Maul in the state he was in.




If you weren't interested then you wouldn't make yourself look retarded by doing the thing you do best. Argue, make a retarded attempt at humor, and then use the last resort of calling me a sock and a troll. Sure we can make a poll but you(like Faunus before you) will realize that you will lose and I will be once again instructed to ignore baseless accusations. This agenda failed on this forum and I have no doubt you're peddling the same agenda elsewhere(faunus-style) to try and gain some sort of acceptance. Keep trying though.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
IKC? Wtf? Wow Nai you respond to my point about you making bullshit assumptions with...Bullshit assumptions?


Welcome to "dodging the point with Sexy" once again. Here, the great master himself has shown us how to evade stuff that hurts. You need some "WTF?", a little "bullshit" and of course the big word "assumption" here, and your dodgery dodge soup can be served.



Excuse me, Sexy. Where have you "proven my bullshit wrong"? Did I, by any chance, miss the picture that shows you with even one SW source or can it be, that you are still just repeating the "No. You're wrong" without getting anywhere because I don't give a damn, while the audience just laughs at your attempts to remain right somewhere because you miserably failed to do so at the original topic?



Oh wow. Sexy. Gosh.
Let me just recap this: The self-proclaimed nigh-genius future top-lawyer has failed to comprehend, that exceptional circumstances aren't equal to normality. As if this alone isn't hilarious enough, the same self-proclaimed nigh-genius future top-lawyer, even after realizing that he was dealing with an exceptional situation does - and this is incarnated awesome - still call Kenobi's performance in this exceptional situation his main argument.

So Sexy is trying to remain right in a point, that doesn't even touch the original topic and then he tries to justify his ignorance (note: his words are still > Kenobi's words, when judging Kenobi's performance) with...oh...sorry...there is no justification for this utter lack of common sense, reason, logic, reading comprehension or - in short - every quality that would distinquish a good debater.





Sexy. Using a "last resort" would imply that I'm losing, when - de facto - I just kicked your sorry ass across the place, just in case you still haven't noticed that I grinded your entire "argument" into tiny little bits. One could think that the only person who is using a "last resort" here, is you, with your constant attempts to lure the attention away from the original debate, which you utterly lost.



Sexy. Your inability to ignore the "baseless accusations" speaks for itself. And "lose"? Every single time you burst into a temper-tantrum, because somebody calls you TDTD, which happens just every second post, I win. Hell. You're even upset because of that, when I'm not even mentioning it. So how did I lose or fail? Because you're still posting here? That would imply that I was trying to get you banned - and why would I, considering that you offer cheap entertainment whenever I get bored?

Originally posted by Borbarad
Welcome to "dodging the point with Sexy" once again. Here, the great master himself has shown us how to evade stuff that hurts. You need some "WTF?", a little "bullshit" and of course the big word "assumption" here, and your dodgery dodge soup can be served.
Good god you're incompetent. I'm responding to YOUR posts and when I call you out on your bullshit accusations, YOU ignore them and claim I'm dodging your points. You seriously have reading comprehension issues Nai. That and you don't understand double standards.




What audience? Oh you mean the people that have been in this thread for the past two days which would be... Oh, you and me. There we go with your delusions. But I'm going to save you further embarrassment Nai. As you're a master of bullshit assumptions that you can't and have no intention of proving(instead electing to go with the deflection defense), I'm going to list all the sources I have in my possession, and then you can quiz me so I can make you look stupid once again. Maybe then you'll learn not to make bullshit assumptions.




Yes, I misinterpreted the situation Nai. If I had a dollar for every time you've done that in the 2 years I've been here, I would have increased the money supply exponentially.


ANd once again Nai is picking and choosing sources. I gave you the reason to doubt Obiwan as a source because the TPM novel contradicts the idea




You've said this so many times, yet you've never actually done it. The credit would actually go to Faunus and I'm in the wrong for misjudging the situation. That doesn't stop you from mimicking arguments and making baseless assertions that make you look retarded.




Weird Nai, the only person that's ever burst into a temper tantrum on this forum is you. Let's go with Nai's desperate attempt at internet approval.

1. Argue something
2. Argue something with weak sarcasm and a cheap attempt at humor
3. #2 but with a mix of hilarious insults
4. #2, #3, and add "troll" and "sock".

Once again Nai, you've proven to be the KMC comic relief.

Here we go Nai, and again I expect you to take this to your superiors because like most internet pseudo intellectuals with low self esteem, they need to blog or tweet about their endeavors. Here is the list


1. NEC
2. JvS
3. All TOTJ comics
4. All movie novels
5. All legacy comics
6. Sithesis and short stories
7. Dark Rendezvous
8. Death Star
9. Rise of Darth Vader
10. All LOTF novels
11. All FOTJ novels

And that's just what's in my room. You are free to test me on these sources, so you'll finally realize to think before you type.

Sexy:

a) You lost the debate.
b) I'm not interested in any blah blah that hasn't something to do with the topic here.

Since you offered nothing new, and just repeated how you are absolutely correct, despite all the errors I pointed out in your "reasoning", and tried to justify your own ignorance (and, as usually, failed), I'll simply take your helplessness as concession. Game over.

Edit: I was riding FauNuts. K?

If you're gonna ride my nuts, and give make it clear that its my nuts you're riding. Don't take all the credit for yourself in your closing remarks.

ForeiTroll.

I didn't read your posts notice that give a damn want to keep the credit for myself.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Sexy:

a) You lost the debate.
b) I'm not interested in any blah blah that hasn't something to do with the topic here.

Since you offered nothing new, and just repeated how you are absolutely correct, despite all the errors I pointed out in your "reasoning", and tried to justify your own ignorance (and, as usually, failed), I'll simply take your helplessness as concession. Game over.

Edit: I was riding FauNuts. K?

A. I'm well aware of this, before you came in for the rescue.
B. If you weren't interested in "blah blah" or the pointless trolling you introduced in the form of hilarious accusations, you wouldn't have brought them up. Then again, you're only interested because you're too stupid to back up what you're saying. So much for common sense.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
A. I'm well aware of this, before you came in for the rescue.


Oh. So you kept arguing despite knowing that you were wrong? Great. Tells me a lot about your personality.



Sexy. I'm sure you want to stay in the roll of "smart law student", but don't bother me with your interpretation of an "insult" as an "assertion that has to be proven". Instead of shouting "Proof?" you should have typed "insult" or ignored it entirely, which is what I did with your Nazi comment. So much for "common sense", indeed.

I have conquered you all.

This thread is a testament to my glory.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Oh. So you kept arguing despite knowing that you were wrong? Great. Tells me a lot about your personality.
No Nai, I now know why I was wrong and it was before you and I argued.





Nai, if there's one thing I learned from you it's any moron can attempt to be intelligent and fail miserably. Another thing I learned is that if I was Nai Fohl, I could make up random bullshit without backing it up, and generally make whatever assertions I want as long as it doesn't pertain to the debate. Then I can engage in double standards and claim the other person is stupid for even bringing it up.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
No Nai, I now know why I was wrong and it was before you and I argued.


And who did show you that you were wrong? You figured that out yourself, genius, right?



Since I used you as example to prove that, the credit goes to yourself.



Still not getting it? I just insulted you, which isn't an assertion. An "assertion" would have been something like: "You don't have any source material, so you can't contribute anything to the debate". Applying your great reasoning, you certainly have proof that I'm a Nazi, correct? This great insult actually shows all one has to know about you, Sexy. I say "Hey. You don't have sources", and you, in turn, compare me to people responsible for the industrial annihilation of several million human lives. And, because you don't make baseless "assertions" like that, you have proof that I'm a Nazi, correct?

Originally posted by Borbarad
Since I used you as example to prove that, the credit goes to yourself.
Oh I get it Nai, the usual I know you are but what am I game. And yes, you showed me, congratulations.




Wow you're dense. You claimed I have no sources. That may be an insult but even to the biggest simpleton(you), it's still a claim. And you're comparing your claim to me making a random Nazi reference? That's hilarious Nai. I love how you misinterpret virtually...Everything. But hey, you're the one calling an obvious assertion, nothing more than an insult so who am I to argue ROFL.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Oh I get it Nai, the usual I know you are but what am I game. And yes, you showed me, congratulations.


It's always fun to beat your silly ass, Beef.



No, Sexy. A "random Nazi reference" is exactly the same that making a "random reference" to the multiple occassions, on which you have pointed to others to present quotes for you, with the exception that I had a reason for the reference. The only "hilarious" thing is that you tried - and still try - to raise a fuzz because of that. Why? Because you just want to beat me once, going that you never managed to do it in a debate regarding the SWU, you now try it this way. Wow. Okay: I had no reason to "assume" that you have no source material. I concede. Are you pleased now? Go and mark the date red on your calender.



Yes. Finally the correct question: Who are you to "argue" against anybody here?

Originally posted by Borbarad
It's always fun to beat your silly ass, Beef.
By always do you mean finally? Unless of course you'd like to recall another occasion? Hint*I'm calling you out on your assertion so don't back peddle and claim it's an insult*Hint




Nai, aside from my Nazi reference which was in poor taste, go ahead and show me these "multiple occasions" in which I have asked to present quotes for you. And if you COULD find one, that proves what exactly(you won't)? Everyone has done that at some point but does that mean everyone has NO sources as you asserted? And I've beaten you before captain "DOOKU WINS BECAUSE HEZ A GREAT JEDI AND AN EVEN GREATER SITH LOLZ"





Once again Nai, if you're allowed to waste bandwidth with your constant nonsense, I have that same right.

Originally posted by Eminence
I have conquered you all.

This thread is a testament to my glory.

I hate you.