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I searched, didn't find a thread on this, so......Here we go.

First and foremost, I know shit about the Star Trek universe. The first few pages of this thread will be all of us determining what constitutes as even of a matchup as possible. Some questions must be answered, like:

1. Which ST universe to use, the new one, or the William Shatner one?

2. How many start destroyers would it take to take on the USS Enterprise?

3. Should the Death Stars be allowed? The Jedi?

4. What starfighters does Star Trek have that can matchup aganst an X Wing or a TIE?

Basically, the thread is open for all of us to determine what is a fair matchup, i.e. How many star destroyers, death stars, etc; etc; etc;

The scenario I had in mind is that the USS Enterprise is out exploring and it comes across the Star Wars universe, Shit goes wrong, war is declared. Or is there a better scenario? Let me know, I am open to any and all scenarios, as long as it is a fair one. We all decide, together.


This thread is breaking a few forum rules, but I see it as a joint effort between all of us.

There's a few on this board, latest one was in the Star Trek forum.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f103/t499313.html

Not one here though?

RJ, I think you would be well within the rules to have an Enterprise B or C or D bersus a star destroyer or a super star destroyer.





That should be okay.

Originally posted by dadudemon
RJ, I think you would be well within the rules to have an Enterprise B or C or D bersus a star destroyer or a super star destroyer.





That should be okay. OK, I am gonna turn deciding the conditions over to you, I havent a clue what you just said haermm

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK, I am gonna turn deciding the conditions over to you, I havent a clue what you just said haermm


We could do a Clone Trooper vs. Jem'Hadar.

Or a clone trooper army versus a Jem"Hadar army.


Read up on Jem'Hardar's and their abilities, and you decide.

Originally posted by dadudemon
We could do a Clone Trooper vs. Jem'Hadar.

Or a clone trooper army versus a Jem"Hadar army.


Read up on Jem'Hardar's and their abilities, and you decide.

the jem'hadar may be too much for the clone troopers

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
the jem'hadar may be too much for the clone troopers


They are. But aren't there many more clone troopers than Jem?+


This is why I think it's a good debate: much to talk about.

I think the X wings and TIE's play a more crucial role here than ever.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I think the X wings and TIE's play a more crucial role here than ever.

Those small ships wouldn't do shit to most ST ships, even swarms of them

What does the ST offer in the way of starfighters?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
What does the ST offer in the way of starfighters?


The Delta flyer...aaaaaaaannnndddd....that's just about it.
If you wanna get "big", we could incorporate borg sphere's...but that's stupid. I prefer to keep it to federation technologies.

The Imperial Navy clearly outclasses the Federation with firepower. Even the Enterprise, which is a Galaxy Class star ship, has shit when compared with the flagships of the Empire. A Star Destroyer would easily overpower any Enterprise ship with an assault of TIE's (fighters, bombers, etc.) and the sheer firepower of the hundreds of cannons/lasers placed throughout the hull of the ship.

The only thing the Federation has, besides the main ship, are the transport shuttles. Remember, these are not military ships, even if the whole crew of the ship is, for better, in a military hierarchy. These are not warriors. They're explorers.

The only plus I can find for the Enterprise is the speed and manueverability of the ship.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
What does the ST offer in the way of starfighters?

Starfleet, Klingons, Vulcans and Romulans don't have much in regards to small craft except for shuttle craft and the like, which aren't made for battle, but could possibly take on a Tie/X-Wing or two due to their shielding.

A Defiant class which is one of the smallest battle-ships could destroy countless X-wing and Ties.

Edit: Is this just the Federation Vs the Empire? Or do we bring in the likes of the Klingons, Romulans etc too?

Originally posted by Impediment
The Imperial Navy clearly outclasses the Federation with firepower. Even the Enterprise, which is a Galaxy Class star ship, has shit when compared with the flagships of the Empire. A Star Destroyer would easily overpower any Enterprise ship with an assault of TIE's (fighters, bombers, etc.) and the sheer firepower of the hundreds of cannons/lasers placed throughout the hull of the ship.

The only thing the Federation has, besides the main ship, are the transport shuttles. Remember, these are not military ships, even if the whole crew of the ship is, for better, in a military hierarchy. These are not warriors. They're explorers.

The only plus I can find for the Enterprise is the speed and manueverability of the ship.

What about transporters? They could just transport the main reactors of each ship into space and phaser fire it.




There's tons of things that the Federation Vessals can do, with their technology, that makes the Star Wars tech look lame.



Star Wars has got speed on Star Trek. The Death Star is another......


But what else? Shields? No.

Weapons other than Death Star? No.


Etc.

Originally posted by dadudemon
What about transporters? They could just transport the main reactors of each ship into space and phaser fire it.

Dude, a photon torpedo transported to SW ship's engine room would either outright destroy it or make it nearly useless.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
First and foremost, I know shit about the Star Trek universe. I am a fan of both. Let me give you a few tips you should know.

1. Generally, Star Trek tech>Star Wars tech. ST has food replicators, transporter systems, and in-ship force fields, not to mention superior hand-held weaponry in phasers.
2. Phasers>Lightsabers. Now a Jedi should be superior to your average Starfleet officer due to his skill, battle experience, force abilities, etc. However a phaser can do much more things. Widen beams to incapacitate a whole room. It can be set to 16(more or less) settings. They can be set to stun, incapacitate, kill, or incinerate. It can also be used as a cutting tools similar to a lightsaber.
3. Jedi/Sith will probably be superior to any ground units Star Trek can muster, and this includes Starfleet, Borg, Jem'Hadar, Vulcan, and Klingon.
4. Star Trek focus much more on martial arts than Star Wars.
5. The average Starfleet officer is smarter than your average Empire officer in tech. Strategy is vice verca.
6. Ship-to-ship, Star Wars ships are much bigger in size than Star Trek.
7. The only thing I'm not sure about is(and this needs to be debated here) what's faster: Hyper Drive(SW) or Warp Speed(ST)?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
1. Which ST universe to use, the new one, or the William Shatner one? Why not both? Specify which one you want considering your the threadstarter.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
2. How many start destroyers would it take to take on the USS Enterprise? One. The Star Destroyer have Stormtroopers that are specifically there to battle. The USS Enterprise is an exploring ship. There are family members. You have exceptional fighters like Worf, Data, Riker, Picard , etc. Then you have your useless crewmembers in Troi, Geordi, Guinan, etc. However the useless sometimes have a valuable skill. Troi is a telepath, Geordi is an genius engineer. If Stormtroopers boarded that Enterprise in comparison they'd be outmatched. Phaser>Blasters, and they can put up force fields between decks to trap you, SW cannot. Vader and Palpatine would be a problem.

But if it's strictly a ship-to-ship battle I'd give it to SW. Wheras ST has quantum torpedoes, SW has Ion Cannons(EMP-like).

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
3. Should the Death Stars be allowed? The Jedi? Why not? While to my knowledge the Federation haven't taken on a laser as big as the Death Star's cannon, they have had a squad of vessels taken down the Borg Cube in First Contact. Also a Federation crew's likely tactic against something as lethal the Death Star would be to beam onboard(an advantage SW doesn't have). From there they could attempt to commandeer the space station. Jedi? Phasers>Lightsabers. The Force, speed, and fighting skill of a Jedi/Sith make them tricky though. If Picard ran into the Death Star with both Palpatine and Vader onboard he'd most likely be ****ed.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
4. What does the ST offer in the way of starfighters? Nothing that I'm aware of. There are smaller Federation shipd such as Sisko's USS Defiant. But they are far away larger and more powerful than you TIE, Jedi Starfighter, or X-Wing. There are shuttles that are in the larger ships docks. But I doubt individual fighter ships would be much of a threat to a standard modern Federation ship. They have force field and the weapon systems aren't targeted by hand, rather much more precise.

Originally posted by dadudemon
They are. But aren't there many more clone troopers than Jem?+


This is why I think it's a good debate: much to talk about.

yeah, they are, but the jem'hadar are fantastic and ferocious warriors

Well the Jem'Hadar are clearly superior to the Jango cloned Clone Troopers physically. They also have cloaking devices.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Well the Jem'Hadar are clearly superior to the Jango cloned Clone Troopers physically. They also have cloaking devices.


yep

OK we need numbers. Lets say it is the full might of the ST universe. What should SW be allowed?

I have never watched a Star Trek film in my life. But I will say this: ST sucks. SW FTW!

Originally posted by Placidity
I have never watched a Star Trek film in my life. But I will say this: ST sucks. SW FTW!

I liked the newest film of ST - need to watch the originals.

it appears like the ST tech > SW tech. But it seems that SW Jedi/Sith > Mostly everyone in St...

right?

OK lets say the ST universe decides to invade the SW universe......can they do it?

Originally posted by Jaeh.is.Awesome
I liked the newest film of ST - need to watch the originals.

it appears like the ST tech > SW tech. But it seems that SW Jedi/Sith > Mostly everyone in St...

right?


No.


There's several "omnipotent" species in Star Trek. Like....a dozen.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK we need numbers. Lets say it is the full might of the ST universe. What should SW be allowed? If I did a SW vs ST thread it would be something like Picard's USS Enterprise E vs a standard Star Destroyer with Vader onboard.

If you used the full might of the ST universe then SW wouldn't have a prayer. One word: Q.

Originally posted by Placidity
I have never watched a Star Trek film in my life. But I will say this: ST sucks. SW FTW! Like I said I'm a fan of both. I grew up watching the Star Wars films, OT and PT. But as of now I've gotten into Star Trek. I don't like the Original Series, but The Next Generation and Deep Space 9 are great. I suggest you try it out.

Originally posted by Jaeh.is.Awesome
But it seems that SW Jedi/Sith > Mostly everyone in St...right?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK lets say the ST universe decides to invade the SW universe......can they do it?

Again. One word: Q.

A decent match would be the Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulan Empire and Cardassian Union Vs The Empire.

Disallowing onmipotents like Q is needed, for obvious reasons as is not wearing the EU pants in regards to Vader, Luke and the Emperor.

No Rebels? No X Wings? jedi?

The Empire in it's entirety probably has a lot more ships and men than the ST I posted as is.

But sure, your thread.

If we go by what's in the movies (as the rules state we are supposed to) then V'ger would probably be capable of completely laying waste to everything that the star wars films could throw at it. It is a sentient cloud of energy that is 82 times bigger than the distance between the earth and the sun.

I'd also say that the Reman Scimitar would probably lay waste to huge swathes of star destroyers and super star destroyers before they even knew where it was.

Originally posted by Robtard
The Empire in it's entirety probably has a lot more ships and men than the ST I posted as is.

But sure, your thread. My thread. yes, but its up to guys like you, Jaden and DDM to set the conditions.

It isn't that easy, as ST tech is shown to be far more advanced, so while the SW has super-massive ships and millions of troopers, a much smaller SW ship is capable of destroying a planet, or more specifically, all life on a planet.

So it's a matter of large numbers vs far more versatile tech.

Edit: In the films, the SW ships are usually just seen flying about space and blasting, while ST ships/crews constantly show adaptiveness and resourcefulness, it's a basic plot of the series.

If everything was being taken into account from both universes then ST would have superior numbers...in 1 episode of voyager they approach the borg central nexus and it alone had "trillions of drones"...This was only 1 small part of the borg collective. There are billions of borg ships of varying sizes and strengths...

I also mentioned on the ST v SW thread in the ST section that in the thrawn trilogy...the Katana fleet was said to have been able to swing the balance of power in the galaxy at that time and it was only supposed to have been 500 or so clone wars era dreadnaughts.

Wouldn't be sensible if we go with "everything in the movies", as ST clearly has too many advantages then. It's why I mentioned those four ST groups to even things out.

I was under the impression the Empire held thousands of worlds and had millions of Troopers.

Personnally, I still think ST's better tech wins in he end, as the war will be decided in space, not on the ground.

Originally posted by Robtard
Wouldn't be sensible if we go with "everything in the movies", as ST clearly has too many advantages then. It's why I mentioned those four ST groups to even things out.



It has too many advantages with either movies or everything else. I suppose it comes with the territory of just having far more material to draw upon.

12 movies, 79 episodes of the original series, 178 next generation episodes, 176 deep space 9 episodes, 172 voyager episodes and 98 enterprise episodes...plus all the books.

Don't mind using the shows becuase they are easily compared to movies but we should probably leave books and comics out.

Its a shame that I am torn between these two.. I am a die hard trekkie and I also love Star Wars just as much..


Originally posted by jaden101
It has too many advantages with either movies or everything else. I suppose it comes with the territory of just having far more material to draw upon.

12 movies, 79 episodes of the original series, 178 next generation episodes, 176 deep space 9 episodes, 172 voyager episodes and 98 enterprise episodes...plus all the books.


not just those.. remember every ship in the Trek Universe can cdertainly be fitted to use cloaking devices or the Enterprise herself can employ Saucer sep and both the Battle bridge and saucer section could be more than any SW vessel can handle

Only Defiant-class ships have the cloaking devices if were talking Federation, not Enterprise. Klingons use them aswell.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Only Defiant-class ships have the cloaking devices if were talking Federation, not Enterprise. Klingons use them aswell.


true, also the romulans too.. but remember ST:TNG episode "the pegasus" where the Enterprise-D used a cloaking device.. and the U.S.S. Defiant had one as well..

Guess I haven't seen it. Which season?

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Guess I haven't seen it. Which season?


season 7, episode 12

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
season 7, episode 12

Pwned.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
season 7, episode 12 Nope I haven't seen much of Season 7. I've seen all of Season 6 and most of Season 4 and 5. How do they acquire the cloaking device?

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Nope I haven't seen much of Season 7. I've seen all of Season 6 and most of Season 4 and 5. How do they acquire the cloaking device?


Rikers former CO comes aboard the Enterprise to discuss the U.S.S. Pegasus, a ship gone missing for a dozen years... As they delve into Romulan space they do find the ship and locate a viable piece of equipment.. the equipment that ADM. Pressman wants is a cloaking device that allows a ship to "phase" thru solid rock... After they retrieve the device and Riker's involvement in everything comes to light with Data's help they retrofit the Enterpise with the cloaking device go thru the solid rock and surprise the Romulans..

its a very good episode

Does the Enterprise E have a cloaking device?

I dont think so.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Does the Enterprise E have a cloaking device?

No, due to the Neutral one pact, Federation isn't allowed to develope or use cloaking tech.

The one exception was the Defiant Class, due to the shared threat of the Borg upon the entire Alpha quadrant. ie they used a borrowed cloaking device from the Romulans in return for all of the Federtation's intel on the Borg.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
Rikers former CO comes aboard the Enterprise to discuss the U.S.S. Pegasus, a ship gone missing for a dozen years... As they delve into Romulan space they do find the ship and locate a viable piece of equipment.. the equipment that ADM. Pressman wants is a cloaking device that allows a ship to "phase" thru solid rock... After they retrieve the device and Riker's involvement in everything comes to light with Data's help they retrofit the Enterpise with the cloaking device go thru the solid rock and surprise the Romulans..

its a very good episode

Yaah, was a decent episode, even had more than the usual Picard vs Riker homoerotic tension.

This is the device: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Interphase_cloaking_device