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I've been wondering about this for a while.

The fight will take place in the Evil Pig's private world where he kept Tabby.

Evil pig freezes time, then devours Kain.

This from that queer pig game? whats it ever done? what are its real feats?

Stopped time with a thought.

And his staff copies weapons, so he even gets all the powers of your Kain.

Show me this...if its from the Tomba game then a hairy little caveman guy must have defeated him which means hes obviously massively limited.

No, not all the powers, you said it copies weapons...so he gets a copy of the Soul reaver.....

Which is the source of Kain's power since the Balance Emblem is attached to it.

Oh, this is from Tomba. The only known way to defeat the pigs is to capture them in the evil pig bag.

lol is that what you think is it?........."sigh"

The only known way in Tomba, what are his other weapons? the guy I assume has soul destroying attacks, powerful blades, vast magic etc....all of which dont work of course?

Nope. He teleports, doesn't really take damage, and the only known way to defeat him was by capturing him in the evil pig bag.

As for the Balance Emblem, you said that yourself.



Directly from the Kain respect thread.

But I guess if Kain has those attacks, then I guess the Evil Pig does too.

You said it was the source of Kains power, its the source of some of Kains powers is the right term. And no, you see the sword is only the conduit through which Kain draws magic from the pillars, to put it in simpler terms. The sword is like a cable, going from Kain to the pillars/conceps, and he draws power from them himself. So you would still technically have to have Kains power not just his sword. The pig would gain simply the elements the sword has.

The Evil pig sounds weak, this bag nonsense is a no limits fallacy by the sounds of it, the pig prob has no real feats taking a look at the universe in question, Kain uses one hand to break its neck and leaves it dead.

No real feats? The Pig created five other living beings. That demonstrates a power to create life without knocking up a female pig.

He created his own little world, its like a pocket dimension really.

When he stopped time, it even removed color from the world. ...hey, look at that BT, he created a mature world!

Ok, so he gets "some" of Kain's powers. Since he still copies the weapon with the emblem, he can draw some magic of his own.

yeh yeh the typical "created" this, nothing you listed could possibly help him against Kain, who accidently kills him with a stray energy bolt.

That stray energy bolt knocks the Evil Pig into a teleportation where he appears behind Kain and kills him with a copy of the Soul Reaver.

Of course, now we're assuming the Evil Pig chose not to stop Time because he thought Kain might make a good toy for a few minutes.

Instant time stop > Kain.

The Evil Pig of Time instantly stopped all time on the planet in an instant.

No matter how hard BT sucks on Kain's wrinkled dick, Kain cannot beat that.

But obviously his power cannot last for long otherwise Tomba would of had no chance...

You realise durations are just measurements of time, which he freezes?

Originally posted by Burning thought
But obviously his power cannot last for long otherwise Tomba would of had no chance... Tomba was immune due to a plot device.

Which Kain does not have.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Tomba was immune due to a plot device.

Which Kain does not have.

What plot device? is it stated as such and what was the device and its powers?

Ill w8 until I see evidence for this actual move before I make judgement, I want to know why the weird caveman thing survived it, what the pig can actually do once Kain is frozen anyway, how long the duration is, we cannot assume its infinite, so we have to wonder how long the pig has actually done it.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You realise durations are just measurements of time, which he freezes?

Stupid statement. But I imagined such from you.

Ill answer it out of boredom, this would only work if he froze himself....

Originally posted by Burning thought
how long the duration is, we cannot assume its infinite, so we have to wonder how long the pig has actually done it.

If it's anything like how the Bronze flight freeze time in Azeroth, it's not a matter of doing it for a period of "time". The Bronze dragons (in very simple words) press the freeze button and do what needs to be done. Then they press the unfreeze button and things continue as they were.

In Warcraft, it's not a matter of holding time frozen, but a matter of stopping and starting it. Freezing and unfreezing. It being frozen is a state inbetween their actions and nothing they do anything to maintain.

But I know nothing of this pig. I'm just giving a Warcraft perspective.

Originally posted by Burning thought
What plot device? is it stated as such and what was the device and its powers?

Ill w8 until I see evidence for this actual move before I make judgement, I want to know why the weird caveman thing survived it, what the pig can actually do once Kain is frozen anyway, how long the duration is, we cannot assume its infinite, so we have to wonder how long the pig has actually done it.



Stupid statement. But I imagined such from you.

Ill answer it out of boredom, this would only work if he froze himself....

Tomba is not a cave man, he's a Jungle boy. Get it right.

Tomba was not frozen because the Evil Pig chose not to freeze him. He said it himself: "There, I've stopped time for the entire world except for you and me. Nothing moves, Nobody talks. Even color is gone! (mature world BT)"

The entire adventure of Tomba stopping the Evil Pigs is nothing but a game to the last Evil Pig.

The only reason he was defeated was because he let himself be fought as a part of his game.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Tomba is not a cave man, he's a Jungle boy. Get it right.

Tomba was not frozen because the Evil Pig chose not to freeze him. He said it himself: "There, I've stopped time for the entire world except for you and me. Nothing moves, Nobody talks. Even color is gone! (mature world BT)"

The entire adventure of Tomba stopping the Evil Pigs is nothing but a game to the last Evil Pig.

The only reason he was defeated was because he let himself be fought as a part of his game.

I would like to hear him say this although this could be one of those falliable character statements....

I quoted it word for word. You hearing the audio isn't going to change the wording.

For all I know your telling be lies or leaving something important out....there could be information during the game that shows some limit to the time pig, or a limit to whom he can freeze or what he can do. Thing is, theres no evidence that says he can freeze a planet solid in time so...so far we have no real feat that he can actually freeze anything much at all...for all you know he could be bluffing, couldnt freeze Tomba and did not have enough power yet had to cover it up to make himself seem impressive. I need to know more information than a spoken quote from the pig.

Either way, lets assume he can do it, theres probably no set duration known for the time period he can freeze for..."if" he can and furthermore, I still have no seen this apprent "thought" freeze yet...he may do a gesture or speak something for all I know.

Fine, I'll find a video. Crybaby.

HP7yi27FgpQ

Happens at 1.21

The only way the spell was broken was when Tomba defeated him.

By shoving him into a sack....lol

Originally posted by Burning thought
By shoving him into a sack....lol

Well, yeah. Nothing else has ever hurt him, and I'm pretty sure it's even been stated as the ONLY way to defeat them.

If you could take any kind of damage forever in exchange for being able to be defeated by being thrown into one specific bag that you could even hold on to, wouldn't you do it? I sure would.

yes but thats a no limits fallacy so its not a feat, feats are based on what a being has endured, if the pig has not endured someone as powerful as Kain attacking him with a punch then he would die from it depending on variables, which by the looks of the game, do not exist.

Only Kain will be frozen in time. That's the problem with your shit logic. You assume Kain will not be.

The entire planet is frozen, because you can actually go ANYWHERE in the planet, and it will be frozen in time. He freezes time before you fight him.

I would like to see that.

I did post a video...

"to everyone sleeping deeply on this continent"

Thought id find the little hick....I always find hicks in so called evidence lol....

Okay.

He froze a continent.

He will still freeze Kain.

The sleeping deeply is not evidence though, considering we see they are not sleeping, but frozen.

We? ive not seen anything frozen in time at all, he says he will freeze everyone sleeping deeply, which implies he could not actually freeze in time a being actually awake....game over....

You know what's funny? There's an old man called Kainen right out the door to that room. He's frozen in place, his eyes are wide open. And he was actually speaking to you right before you went to meet the last evil pig.

And in order to get to the last evil pig and fight him, you have to go outside of the tunnels you are in when you see Kainen, and pass numerous other people who are also not sleeping.

Game over.

Originally posted by Burning thought
We? ive not seen anything frozen in time at all, he says he will freeze everyone sleeping deeply, which implies he could not actually freeze in time a being actually awake....game over.... Yet you see people who are awake and not sleeping.

I am not going to look up videos that are likely very sparse for a very old game just because you're butthurt Kain loses.

There should be a part 2 to the one I posted where he might go around finding all the plates and passing people. He'll at least pass Kainen for sure.

It might actually be in the same video...

Edit: Yeah. He passes Kainen at 4.00

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
You know what's funny? There's an old man called Kainen right out the door to that room. He's frozen in place, his eyes are wide open. And he was actually speaking to you right before you went to meet the last evil pig.

And in order to get to the last evil pig and fight him, you have to go outside of the tunnels you are in when you see Kainen, and pass numerous other people who are also not sleeping.

Game over.

Show me, and the pig said quite clearly that only beings in a deep sleep, which explains why he and the jungle boy are still awake, he never said directly he would spare the jungle boy from time stop so there you are. This old man being frozen has no barring on anything, certaintly not until you show me the old man frozen, its also just a gameplay mess up. The pig says what its going to do..

Originally posted by Burning thought
Show me, and the pig said quite clearly that only beings in a deep sleep, which explains why he and the jungle boy are still awake, he never said directly he would spare the jungle boy from time stop so there you are. This old man being frozen has no barring on anything, certaintly not until you show me the old man frozen, its also just a gameplay mess up. The pig says what its going to do..

The dirty swine quite clearly announces that he's going to cast "TIME... STOP!!!".

Indeed he does, on all those sleeping deeply

Except if you look at the vid, at 4.00 you can see someone frozen and clearly not sleeping deeply.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Indeed he does, on all those sleeping deeply

I must admit I have no idea what he meant by saying "to everyone sleeping deeply on this continent". I have never played this game and can't really put it into context. Fact is, the Pig says that time has stopped for everyone in the world. The old man certainly wasn't 'sleeping deeply', but he was still frozen.

And is that a cutscene/canon or is it while during gameplay? besides how do you know that Wizard hadnt fallen asleep?

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
I must admit I have no idea what he meant by saying "to everyone sleeping deeply on this continent". I have never played this game and can't really put it into context. Fact is, the Pig says that time has stopped for everyone in the world. The old man certainly wasn't 'sleeping deeply', but he was still frozen.

Wasnt asleep when you last saw him you mean...

Because his eyes are wide the **** open.

So? Gandalf who is a Wizard can sleep with his eyes open, you cant take what you see from a gameplay perspective to what an actual canon character says in a cutscene, especially one where he outlines who he is targeting with the spell...which is everyone sleeping deeply on the continent, thats what he targeted the spell at. If I could see a lot of people frozen with their eyes open then I may think on it, but I wont contradict the pig who actually made the spell happen in canon cutscene....

lawl.

Originally posted by Burning thought
And is that a cutscene/canon or is it while during gameplay? besides how do you know that Wizard hadnt fallen asleep?



Wasnt asleep when you last saw him you mean...

You mean that he fell into deep sleep in that short gap between him talking to Tomba and between Tomba talking to the Pig? Now that's really reaching for it.

Besides, he's "sleeping" standing up and with his eyes open.

I was speaking from the point of view of Moo and those who want to see the pig beat Kain, he could indeed be falliable, but then again until a cutscene that shows anyone and everyone frozen in time happens, the pig is the best source of information on the move.

Although you obvioulsy have no understanding of the words "could" since i said that before actually seeing the scene.....

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
You mean that he fell into deep sleep in that short gap between him talking to Tomba and between Tomba talking to the Pig? Now that's really reaching for it.

Besides, he's "sleeping" standing up and with his eyes open.

Maybe, but then again using gameplay display as a way to gauge canon is a fairly big reach as well considering the one who made the spell happen disagrees with you....

Originally posted by Burning thought
So? Gandalf who is a Wizard can sleep with his eyes open, you cant take what you see from a gameplay perspective to what an actual canon character says in a cutscene, especially one where he outlines who he is targeting with the spell...which is everyone sleeping deeply on the continent, thats what he targeted the spell at. If I could see a lot of people frozen with their eyes open then I may think on it, but I wont contradict the pig who actually made the spell happen in canon cutscene....

K. Well lets look at what the pig says right after he says "Time...Stop!"



2.03

Yeah, Time has stopped for everyone in the world. No "sleeping deeply" bullshit contradicts that. And it's not even just the continent, it's the whole world.

And he let just himself and Tomba be immune to it. So not only can he stop time, he demonstrates a good control over who and what he stops.

So, he freezes Kain in time and puts him in a park somewhere as a statue for everyone to see. Pigeon poop and all.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Maybe, but then again using gameplay display as a way to gauge canon is a fairly big reach as well considering the one who made the spell happen disagrees with you....

This is not really one of those cases that a cutscene would show anything different from what we see in gameplay. Everything is frozen. If we saw a cutscene, I sincerely doubt it would show everyone not frozen.

The Pig doesn't disagree with me any more or less than it does with you. He states that "Time has stopped for everyone in the world".

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
K. Well lets look at what the pig says right after he says "Time...Stop!"



2.03

Yeah, Time has stopped for everyone in the world. No "sleeping deeply" bullshit contradicts that. And it's not even just the continent, it's the whole world.

And he let just himself and Tomba be immune to it. So not only can he stop time, he demonstrates a good control over who and what he stops.

So, he freezes Kain in time and puts him in a park somewhere as a statue for everyone to see. Pigeon poop and all.

No because after hes actually cast the spell he is more falliable, because you see he is casting the spell before he actually says "time---stop!" unless ofc the whole world is a continent. Thing is everyone does not really contradict everything, he could mean "everyone" as in everyone who is in a deep sleep.

He never says that at all, its probably more along the lines of what he actually says, since neither him or Tomba are in a deep sleep, so therefore their not frozen...the dog is not frozen either btw, that allows Tomba to fly around...

So he tries to freeze time but realises Kains not in a deep sleep and thinks "sh**" before Kain punches him and his head explodes.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
This is not really one of those cases that a cutscene would show anything different from what we see in gameplay. Everything is frozen. If we saw a cutscene, I sincerely doubt it would show everyone not frozen.

The Pig doesn't disagree with me any more or less than it does with you. He states that "Time has stopped for everyone in the world".

It shows canon, gameplay could have that wizard frozen as to not side track the player into trying to talk with it. Theres many gameplay moments where characters are moving or are in a state that is apart from the canon.

Thats after his intitial spell and him and the boy so he becomes more falliable but more importantly probably more taunting, the boy and himself not being frozen is contradiction to "everyone" anyway.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No because after hes actually cast the spell he is more falliable, because you see he is casting the spell before he actually says "time---stop!" unless ofc the whole world is a continent. Thing is everyone does not really contradict everything, he could mean "everyone" as in everyone who is in a deep sleep.

He never says that at all, its probably more along the lines of what he actually says, since neither him or Tomba are in a deep sleep, so therefore their not frozen...the dog is not frozen either btw, that allows Tomba to fly around...

So he tries to freeze time but realises Kains not in a deep sleep and thinks "sh**" before Kain punches him and his head explodes.

I think you mistook my bolding as an anchor for what the pig actually emphasized. The phrase "everyone in the world" means what it says, everyone in the world, regardless of your deep sleep nonsense.

The pig may be immune to his own spell, but Tomba? Nonsense. The pig let Tomba stay unfrozen because he wanted Tomba to stay unfrozen.

So yeah, back to Kain being a statue. It'd be lulzy.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I think you mistook my bolding as an anchor for what the pig actually emphasized. The phrase "everyone in the world" means what it says, everyone in the world, regardless of your deep sleep nonsense.

The pig may be immune to his own spell, but Tomba? Nonsense. The pig let Tomba stay unfrozen because he wanted Tomba to stay unfrozen.

So yeah, back to Kain being a statue. It'd be lulzy.

You mean regardless of the pigs deep sleep nonsense?

This is a very big assumption.

Kain will never be frozen in time no matter what you want to think on the use of the Pigs words...even if you want to pick and choose what bits you like most and ignore the rest.

Originally posted by Burning thought
It shows canon, gameplay could have that wizard frozen as to not side track the player into trying to talk with it. Theres many gameplay moments where characters are moving or are in a state that is apart from the canon.

Thats after his intitial spell and him and the boy so he becomes more falliable but more importantly probably more taunting, the boy and himself not being frozen is contradiction to "everyone" anyway.

There are really much more simple methods of not side tracking a player into trying to talk with someone.

Not really, since the Pig says "except for you and me".

exactley....so thats not everyone is it, him and Tomba are the only two we can definatley say were not asleep. Along side the dog which allows him to fly and w/e that fairy thing is next to Tomba as well....

The only relevent parts in the pigs spell are those before he actually casts it, otherwise its exageration and hyperbole.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You mean regardless of the pigs deep sleep nonsense?

This is a very big assumption.

Kain will never be frozen in time no matter what you want to think on the use of the Pigs words...even if you want to pick and choose what bits you like most and ignore the rest.

No, I mean your worthless argument.

No, it's not. Tomba never gets one item in the whole game or anything that will let him be immune to anyone's magic. I've played the game, you haven't because you like dark and gritty "adult" nonsense. Man...your life must suck something terrible.

He is frozen in time. Because Kainen was not asleep RIGHT BEFORE you went into the room. You talk to him, he's awake. It's a cutscene, he gives you the Evil Pig bag and tells you where he found it.

Kainen might be old, but he's not falling asleep. And neither is EVERYONE ELSE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD at the precise moment that pig casts his spell.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
No, I mean your worthless argument.

No, it's not. Tomba never gets one item in the whole game or anything that will let him be immune to anyone's magic. I've played the game, you haven't because you like dark and gritty "adult" nonsense. Man...your life must suck something terrible.

He is frozen in time. Because Kainen was not asleep RIGHT BEFORE you went into the room. You talk to him, he's awake. It's a cutscene, he gives you the Evil Pig bag and tells you where he found it.

Kainen might be old, but he's not falling asleep. And neither is EVERYONE ELSE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD at the precise moment that pig casts his spell.

Childish...

I like how you keep picking on what you wanted me to be implying in the other thead and ive ignored you until now, THERE! i gave you some attension to that annoying comment you keep making, will you shut up now?

How do you know hes not? he may be exausted, hes old, he could have fallen asleep now that he knows he can rest easy knowing Tomba is about to stop the evil pig....

But anyway, Kain busts the pig with a punch, or makes the pig freeze itself in time.

BT, you cannot be this friggin stupid.

The Evil Pig of Time says,"To everyone sleeping deeply in the world...TIME...STOP!"

That is such obvious narrative hyperbole it is not even funny, are you REALLY going to tell me that he meant everyone who is sleeping on the planet was frozen, no one else?

Kainen was not sleeping, he was floating in mid-air when you spoke to him last, yet he was frozen. Of course, you probably think that in the short amount of time you left him alone, he fell asleep, right? You are reaching. Your argument, as usual, is shit.

He directly then states that EVERYONE in the world is frozen except for him and Tomba, that is a clear statement, unlike the narrative hyperbole you are using as "evidence." Your notion that because he said that after he casted the spell makes it more fallible is bullshit.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Childish...

I like how you keep picking on what you wanted me to be implying in the other thead and ive ignored you until now, THERE! i gave you some attension to that annoying comment you keep making, will you shut up now?

How do you know hes not? he may be exausted, hes old, he could have fallen asleep now that he knows he can rest easy knowing Tomba is about to stop the evil pig....

But anyway, Kain busts the pig with a punch, or makes the pig freeze itself in time.

You started it.

I'm not picking on what I wanted you to imply. I'm picking on what you did imply. If you can't read your own posts or understand the implications you give, that's your problem.

I do enjoy your own assumptions though. What's that called when neither of us can prove something? A fallacy? I'm serious here, I don't know what the term is.

I can't see how he'll be doing that. You know, since he's frozen and all.

I like when you type. Whenever you use the three dots in a row it's like you're pausing for dramatic effect. It makes me smile on the inside.

Originally posted by NemeBro
BT, you cannot be this friggin stupid.

The Evil Pig of Time says,"To everyone sleeping deeply in the world...TIME...STOP!"

That is such obvious narrative hyperbole it is not even funny, are you REALLY going to tell me that he meant everyone who is sleeping on the planet was frozen, no one else?

Kainen was not sleeping, he was floating in mid-air when you spoke to him last, yet he was frozen. Of course, you probably think that in the short amount of time you left him alone, he fell asleep, right? You are reaching. Your argument, as usual, is shit.

He directly then states that EVERYONE in the world is frozen except for him and Tomba, that is a clear statement, unlike the narrative hyperbole you are using as "evidence." Your notion that because he said that after he casted the spell makes it more fallible is bullshit.

Continent, not world, this is the actual spell that he casts....hes addressing those he is casting it on, and then he casts the spell, afterwards then its narrative hyperbole because he has cast the spell. nothing states he actually spared Tomba at all, the fact him and Tomba and the other silly critters like the flying fairy thing are all happy flying buddies and quite unnaffected.

ime reaching for what? ive already told the opposition theres no chance the pig could hit Kain with this spell....ime just enjoying outling how wrong you are by the fact the pig makes a clear statement for his spell....

No you see youve swapped them around, narrative hyperbole comes after the real action, you even hear the change in his voice...what he says before casting the spell is him addressing those who are part of the spell, him, Tomba and that flying thing next to Tomba are not said to be part of the spell or excempt from it apart from the fact their not asleep.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
You started it.

I'm not picking on what I wanted you to imply. I'm picking on what you did imply. If you can't read your own posts or understand the implications you give, that's your problem.

I do enjoy your own assumptions though. What's that called when neither of us can prove something? A fallacy? I'm serious here, I don't know what the term is.

I can't see how he'll be doing that. You know, since he's frozen and all.

I like when you type. Whenever you use the three dots in a row it's like you're pausing for dramatic effect. It makes me smile on the inside.

Ime not reading my own posts? yeesss.....right...thats exactley the way it is lol...

Depends on the fallacy, fact is theres things in an argument I dont have to prove, such as facts that your stating are happeing, assumptions are not facts. Ime outlining assumptions to show you how less of a fact something youve said is.

BT, since Nemebro is temporarily MIA, I shall fill in for him. Bend-over.

Anyway, BT your arguments are so bad it's obvious even you see the problems with them and there's nothing more to say. You're reaching halfway across the internet trying to find anything to let Kain win because the idea of him losing to a pig leaves you sore about the hind-quarters.

/thread. Now scurry back under your bridge, I've fed you enough for today.

Sorry but I dont think Nemebro was gay....maybe a bit in the middle but not gay.....

Stop blabering like a school girl, "booo hooo your arguments are terribles!"

I can crush almost any real argument in an instant and my tests on a lot of the people on the forum have come back fairly positive for me...all those opposing me in the Pig thread for example have a major flaw in their plan that they cannot see yet....lol

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ime not reading my own posts? yeesss.....right...thats exactley the way it is lol...

Depends on the fallacy, fact is theres things in an argument I dont have to prove, such as facts that your stating are happeing, assumptions are not facts. Ime outlining assumptions to show you how less of a fact something youve said is.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

That's not what you're doing at all. You are trying to counter them with assumptions of your own, when most of the evidence is on my side. Kain loses.

Have you ever debated with Terry on Sephiroth? I want to see you debate with yourself.

It's not gay if you do it like a viking, it's all about demoralising your enemy, you see.

Anyway;

1. Lol.

2. Lol.

3. Point out any problem with "Kain is frozen in time". ?


Edit: Moo, yes they have debated, and it was LOLZ. In caps.

I tried to recreate it but the mods caught the scent of my nefarious plot to end the world with a fanboy war of epic scale and closed the thread.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
It's not gay if you do it like a viking, it's all about demoralising your enemy, you see.

Anyway;

1. Lol.

2. Lol.

3. Point out any problem with "Kain is frozen in time". ?


Edit: Moo, yes they have debated, and it was LOLZ. In caps.

I tried to recreate it but the mods caught the scent of my nefarious plot to end the world with a fanboy war of epic scale and closed the thread.

Wut thread? I want to read it.

I debated with him probably for longer than any other....and you see unlike me, Terry makes up baseless assumptions and theories...on the other hand, I use fact, real evidence and information. Ofcourse, big groups of people disliking the opposition>>>>real facts and evidence which is a shame, but KMC has its quibs and its positives.

No but here, let me tell you the little secret ive been bottling up while you hopefullls want Kain/me to lose in here......oh actually no, ill let it go later lol, once you guys come up with more irrelvencies and ignore your own source.

Maybe ill give you training Moo before I throttle you, ill give you time to figuire out what ime refering to...

Originally posted by Burning thought
I debated with him probably for longer than any other....and you see unlike me, Terry makes up baseless assumptions and theories...on the other hand, I use fact, real evidence and information. Ofcourse, big groups of people disliking the opposition>>>>real facts and evidence which is a shame, but KMC has its quibs and its positives.

No but here, let me tell you the little secret ive been bottling up while you hopefullls want Kain/me to lose in here......oh actually no, ill let it go later lol, once you guys come up with more irrelvencies and ignore your own source.

Maybe ill give you training Moo before I throttle you, ill give you time to figuire out what ime refering to...

Why is the Bold unlike you?

Honestly dude, if a large group of people telling you that you're wrong or anything else, you really might want to consider the possibility that you are wrong.

I really don't care who wins this thread. So whatever you think you have is pretty pointless.

Not if they cannot actually provide reasoning, they never can, never will and most of the time when asked they cannot actually find the reason at all or evidence for it...

You dont care lol....is that so?

They have. You are ignoring it.

And yes, it is.

Yes lol, all this time ime ignoring their hundreds of good reasonings...then go and quote one please...

Ok, Kain kills the evil pig before his 10+ second cast time is up with a punch....he does not even cast the spell before he is dead, the cast time is too long. How does it feel opposition? how does it feel that your own evidence was not even considered strongly enough before you made your decisions on irrelvencies, how does it feel that I technically snapped out your spines and impaled you on them?

muahahahahha!!!

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes lol, all this time ime ignoring their hundreds of good reasonings...then go and quote one please...

Ok, Kain kills the evil pig before his 10+ second cast time is up with a punch....he does not even cast the spell before he is dead, the cast time is too long. How does it feel opposition? how does it feel that your own evidence was not even considered strongly enough before you made your decisions on irrelvencies, how does it feel that I technically snapped out your spines and impaled you on them?

muahahahahha!!!

It feels strangely erotic.

Lol? Please tell me he's not being serious?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Lol? Please tell me he's not being serious?

The spell does have a cast time.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
It feels strangely erotic.

mmm excellent! that was the intension....

Originally posted by NemeBro
The Evil Pig of Time says,"To everyone sleeping deeply in the world...TIME...STOP!"

That is such obvious narrative hyperbole it is not even funny, are you REALLY going to tell me that he meant everyone who is sleeping on the planet was frozen, no one else?

Kainen was not sleeping, he was floating in mid-air when you spoke to him last, yet he was frozen. Of course, you probably think that in the short amount of time you left him alone, he fell asleep, right? You are reaching.

He directly then states that EVERYONE in the world is frozen except for him and Tomba, that is a clear statement, unlike the narrative hyperbole you are using as "evidence." Your notion that because he said that after he casted the spell makes it more fallible is bullshit.

There ya go.



It feels funny. The spine thing? That's pretty hot. Is it getting warmer in here?

Oh, how does Kain punch a ball of light and do damage to it at all? Sometimes I try punching at the sun, but I don't hear any "ows" or anything.



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I'm referring to the way he's typing. It's like something out of a black comedy.

Evil pig is not a ball of light unfortunatley....

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I'm referring to the way he's typing. It's like something out of a black comedy.

no you were hoping for some support so you could make another of your hilarious jibes but when the obviousness dawned on you that there is a cast time and the pig is defenceless you fell short...awwwww

Originally posted by Burning thought
Evil pig is not a ball of light unfortunatley....

Sure looks like one to me.

No, you see his teleport form does but not the real evil pig itself, that can be smashed to bits by Kains burly hands and arms....

Also ime curious out of amusement, is it stated he is immune to time powers?

GZknxRwg7uM

1.28

ime curious out of amusement, why is the evil pig automaticaly in his pig form and not in his ball of light form that Kain can't harm?

Also ime curious out of amusement, is Kain even fast enough to hit the evil pig?

Because the ball of light form is useless and you mean Kain cant harm it physically...its shown no resistance to magic and its only basic logic which may not hold true in the pigs universe that makes you think Kain cannot grab him physically. besides the ball of light form he cant seem to sustain for long and cannot really attack from it. Either way Kain is invulerable to the pig until he destroys it with a spell or if hes bored and wants the pig to piss itself with fear first he can use physical force and w8 for it to emerge from the ball of light.

The evil pig is not fast so.....I should hope so unless for this match Kain is not allowed teleportation, time slow of his own or typical movement. Its likely Kain just uses TK to hold the pig in place as well.

And if were using canon powers Kain just waves his hand and removes magic from the pig alltogether. Then he can just play nosgothic football with its remains with his sons who want a bit of quality time with daddy.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Because the ball of light form is useless and you mean Kain cant harm it physically...its shown no resistance to magic and its only basic logic which may not hold true in the pigs universe that makes you think Kain cannot grab him physically. besides the ball of light form he cant seem to sustain for long and cannot really attack from it. Either way Kain is invulerable to the pig until he destroys it with a spell or if hes bored and wants the pig to piss itself with fear first he can use physical force and w8 for it to emerge from the ball of light.

The evil pig is not fast so.....I should hope so unless for this match Kain is not allowed teleportation, time slow of his own or typical movement. Its likely Kain just uses TK to hold the pig in place as well.

And if were using canon powers Kain just waves his hand and removes magic from the pig alltogether. Then he can just play nosgothic football with its remains with his sons who want a bit of quality time with daddy.

It's a ball of light. Light doesn't take damage at all.

The Evil Pig was in his light form for the entire game until you start that fight. He can do anything from it that he needs to, like his time stop spell that Kain can't stop him from casting.

The pig has teleportation of its own. And all of Kains powers due to his copy of the Soul Reaver.

TK can't keep light from moving.

So. About that Kain statue. Would you like to keep it clean? I don't think anyone else here likes Kain enough to keep all the bird poop off it.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
It's a ball of light. Light doesn't take damage at all.

The Evil Pig was in his light form for the entire game until you start that fight. He can do anything from it that he needs to, like his time stop spell that Kain can't stop him from casting.

The pig has teleportation of its own. And all of Kains powers due to his copy of the Soul Reaver.

TK can't keep light from moving.

So. About that Kain statue. Would you like to keep it clean? I don't think anyone else here likes Kain enough to keep all the bird poop off it.

Prove it, prove its just a ball of light, for all you know it could be an illusion, he could just be illuminated, and actually light can take damage in fiction so your talking nonsense. Especially from fictional things like magic, Kain could quite easily kill the pig with spells that hit the soul, not physical form, but ofc you dont have any clue about what Kain can really do.

Kain does not need to, with repel shield every spell cast to affect Kain reflects back on the user...so the pig freezes himself if Kain "allows" him to get a spell off.

Weve been through this, your just trolling now.

Light? maybe not but a pink creating to fabrication to shield himself perhaps...not that the pig could stay in it indefinaltey.

You mean the pig statue....or the bigs body smashed on the ground as his light form is destroyed, or Kain just uses darkness and overshadows it wipeing the pig from excistence

You have zero evidence for any of the pigs attributes, all we know is that a young jungle boy can catch up with him, manhandle him and defeat him by tossin him in a bag. Kain would ofc just rip the pig in half.

now your doing a Terry lol..which is amusing.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Prove it, prove its just a ball of light, for all you know it could be an illusion, he could just be illuminated, and actually light can take damage in fiction so your talking nonsense. Especially from fictional things like magic, Kain could quite easily kill the pig with spells that hit the soul, not physical form, but ofc you dont have any clue about what Kain can really do.

Kain does not need to, with repel shield every spell cast to affect Kain reflects back on the user...so the pig freezes himself if Kain "allows" him to get a spell off.

Weve been through this, your just trolling now.

Light? maybe not but a pink creating to fabrication to shield himself perhaps...not that the pig could stay in it indefinaltey.

You mean the pig statue....or the bigs body smashed on the ground as his light form is destroyed, or Kain just uses darkness and overshadows it wipeing the pig from excistence

You have zero evidence for any of the pigs attributes, all we know is that a young jungle boy can catch up with him, manhandle him and defeat him by tossin him in a bag. Kain would ofc just rip the pig in half.

now your doing a Terry lol..which is amusing.

It's obvious by looking at it that it's a ball of light.

So the pigs staff copies Repel shield and it bounces around indefinitely. But yeah, now we're assuming Kain can stop the Time freeze spell, which he can't.

Nope.



What? Rephrase that and make it understandable.

You can't damage light. It is the young boy to your 65 year old pedophile, you can't touch it, but it can touch you.

We know that the evil pig let himself be defeated.

Maybe I will pull a Terry, you can debate with yourself all over again.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
It's obvious by looking at it that it's a ball of light.

So the pigs staff copies Repel shield and it bounces around indefinitely. But yeah, now we're assuming Kain can stop the Time freeze spell, which he can't.

Nope.



What? Rephrase that and make it understandable.

You can't damage light. It is the young boy to your 65 year old pedophile, you can't touch it, but it can touch you.

We know that the evil pig let himself be defeated.

Maybe I will pull a Terry, you can debate with yourself all over again.

The pig has not copied any spells, your making abilities up as you go along lol....the pig will have a super lazer beamz next.....

Ofc you can damage light in fiction, just like you can damage shadow, the pig has no resistance. He will simply be blinked out of excistence by Kain putting shadow over his light if he really wants to.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The pig has not copied any spells, your making abilities up as you go along lol....the pig will have a super lazer beamz next.....

Ofc you can damage light in fiction, just like you can damage shadow, the pig has no resistance. He will simply be blinked out of excistence by Kain putting shadow over his light if he really wants to.

His staff copies any weapon. A spell is a weapon. So the pig waves his staff and the spell gets sent right back at Kain.

No, you can't. You could damage someone with a light attribute, but not actual light itself. To cast a shadow over anything you have to add another light source and get between it and the evil pig. Which Kain can't do fast enough because the pig isn't going to stand still. You don't make any sense at all.

No its not, its never shown to copy a spell, simple.

Or use the dark enshroud element and make himself a shadow, besides Kain has slashed apart shadow/light beings with his sword, theres wraths, not that its relevent, Kain hits souls with his weapons so the pig is not safe in any form.

I'm certain the majority of Kain's spells come from the balance emblem.

I want feats. Strength feats, speed feats and this slashing apart light beings nonsense. Basic knowledge stands until proven otherwise and basic knowledge says light can't be attacked.

He doesnt beed strength because the pig can be manhandled by a boy, nor speed, for the same reason, as for light, he can slash shadow which is actually shown and shadow is arguably more immaterial than light:

vRVbS8uc82Y

2:32

"these strange creatures seem to manifest from the very shadows"

But on "basic knowledge" Kain can slash the pig due to the soul striking/devouring powers of the blade.

Off-topic question: which LoK game is the last chronologically?

Defiance

Originally posted by Burning thought
Defiance

Because some guys are saying it's Blood Omen 2.

No Defiance is the last LoK game. Why people think it's BO2 I have no idea. Good game though and so is Defiance.

Off Topic: Hey BT, got any intel that there might be a new LoK game in the works?

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Because some guys are saying it's Blood Omen 2.

Thats weird, the latest chronological game is definaltey Defiance, it goes:

Blood omen
Blood omen 2
Soul reaver
Soul reaver 2
Defiance

Soul reaver is estimated at least 1000 years after BO 2

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Off Topic: Hey BT, got any intel that there might be a new LoK game in the works?

Tbh Ive not been looking for it, although I must say ive read an arcticle a few months ago about how a new manager has great interest in making a new LOK game. Try typing in "new LOK game" in your search engine.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Tbh Ive not been looking for it, although I must say ive read an arcticle a few months ago about how a new manager has great interest in making a new LOK game. Try typing in "new LOK game" in your search engine.

I just tried looking for it but couldn't find anything. If this keeps up, LoK will be as dead as Raziel's skin.

Prob already is dead, I think Amy herring, the writer of the newer games left and Taylor who did the voice of the Elder God among others unfortunatley died.

Although I would not lose hope, if the CEO of Eidos which is mentioned in this video below really did say he had a major interest in the game series there may be one. It was a very good series, although not mainstream it had a huge following and still does.

IbsRc-Qj3VQ

Originally posted by Burning thought
He doesnt beed strength because the pig can be manhandled by a boy, nor speed, for the same reason, as for light, he can slash shadow which is actually shown and shadow is arguably more immaterial than light:

vRVbS8uc82Y

2:32

"these strange creatures seem to manifest from the very shadows"

But on "basic knowledge" Kain can slash the pig due to the soul striking/devouring powers of the blade.

Tomba is abnormally strong and fast for a boy. So yes, Kain needs Strength and Speed feats.

The shadow creature thing is irrelevant. In order for these creatures to do any damage to Kain or something else they've obviously been concentrated enough to have a physical form.

The ball of light is not concentrated. And Kain cannot hack through a real shadow like he did to the shadow creatures.

So now we still have the pig freezing Kain in time. Oh, and the statue. We love the statue. Kain's skin will start to match his hair.

Show me his strength feats.

Your assuming again, their shadow beings, your inventing things e.g. them having a physical form.

Kains blade passes through the pigs light form like air and takes its soul on the way through, then it drops as a corpse on the floor or dissolves.

As I told you already, repel will stop any spell touching Kain, so even if you take Kains soul powers away from him and ignore feats of kains sword destroying shadow beings which your bound to he does not get touched at all by the pig or its powers.

Sucking on Kain's sagged balls sack will not save him from losing.

No it wont, your perfectly right there, but an immunity to magic, long over 10 seconds to kill a swine and soul ripping will.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No it wont, your perfectly right there, but an immunity to magic, long over 10 seconds to kill a swine and soul ripping will.
1. Kaintard
2. Pig teleports
3. Time stop
4. shield is a no limit fallacy

Originally posted by Phanteros
1. Kaintard
2. Pig teleports
3. Time stop
4. shield is a no limit fallacy

If the pig teleports then it ****s up its cast time and has to start again...so by all means...the pig will teleport until it appears again and Kains speed kills him or the pig is ripped from range.

Time stop? yes I guess Kain could time stop the pig as well with his or its spell.

No not at all...it repels magic, thats what it does...point out the no limit? although in canon it is indeed infnite.

Go and read up on Kain dear fellow and then read up on this pig, it takes too long to do any of its powers.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Show me his strength feats.

Your assuming again, their shadow beings, your inventing things e.g. them having a physical form.

Kains blade passes through the pigs light form like air and takes its soul on the way through, then it drops as a corpse on the floor or dissolves.

As I told you already, repel will stop any spell touching Kain, so even if you take Kains soul powers away from him and ignore feats of kains sword destroying shadow beings which your bound to he does not get touched at all by the pig or its powers.

Like you said, he manhandles these pigs. The Earth Pig is actually incredibly large. I'll have to find a video.

He wields his Blackjack like its a plaything, so we know he's not weak.

And no, I'm not assuming anything. For them to do any kind of damage at all, they have to have a physical form. Same for light beings.

No.

Okay, then to get around repel, the pig freezes the entire world.

Actually I'm wondering something. It was stated that the last Evil Pig created the first five. So he could just create more pigs and have those attack Kain. That'd be cool.

I think we'll just stick with the Time stopping thing then. Where does everyone thing the Kain statue would look the best at? Me, I'm thinking Central Park in NYC.

1. Pig stops time
2. teleports
3. Kaintard
4. Soul sweep isn't instant

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Like you said, he manhandles these pigs. The Earth Pig is actually incredibly large. I'll have to find a video.

He wields his Blackjack like its a plaything, so we know he's not weak.

And no, I'm not assuming anything. For them to do any kind of damage at all, they have to have a physical form. Same for light beings.

No.

Okay, then to get around repel, the pig freezes the entire world.

Actually I'm wondering something. It was stated that the last Evil Pig created the first five. So he could just create more pigs and have those attack Kain. That'd be cool.

I think we'll just stick with the Time stopping thing then. Where does everyone thing the Kain statue would look the best at? Me, I'm thinking Central Park in NYC.

Yes you will....although the pig could still be light, you can make an incredibly large air balloon if you wanted to but it would still be light.

No your assuming and inventing, its never stated that they would have to be physical to do damage, you are confused between the real world and a fictional one, and in the LOK, these shadow beings can hit Kain.

It does not get around anything, it just ends up with the same thing it did to Tomba only it freezes itself as well since its not shown to be able to ignore a target, and ofc Kain is faster, stronger and overall ridiculously more powerful than Tomba, so its screwed.

Originally posted by Phanteros
1. Pig stops time
2. teleports
3. Kaintard
4. Soul sweep isn't instant

1. Not in the 10 seconds its got unfortunatley. Unless Kain allows it to freeze itself.

4. Kain just has to swipe the sword through the pig, so no its not instant but to the pigs reactions it would be and far faster than 10 seconds. Kains ranged version is just a gesture so no, thats not instant either but it may as well be.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes you will....although the pig could still be light, you can make an incredibly large air balloon if you wanted to but it would still be light.

No your assuming and inventing, its never stated that they would have to be physical to do damage, you are confused between the real world and a fictional one, and in the LOK, these shadow beings can hit Kain.

It does not get around anything, it just ends up with the same thing it did to Tomba only it freezes itself as well since its not shown to be able to ignore a target, and ofc Kain is faster, stronger and overall ridiculously more powerful than Tomba, so its screwed.

Here ya go: I think he even states that the pigs bodies are 78% fat or something. And just look at the size of him, he's huge. He starts talking at 4.49

HF1DO_k6JY4

Yeah. That is a huge ass pig. It's the size of a full grown male in that game in addition to being much wider than a male of that size, and is 78 percent fat. You can imagine how much it weighs.

Kain's a pretty big weakling if he can get punched by a shadow and be hurt. But yes, they can hurt Kain, because they have a physical form. The fictional worlds created in games use real world concepts. Like "a shadow can't hurt you normally because it doesn't have a physical form."

That repel shield does sound like a no limits fallacy. So if Kain can have that, I think that means the pig has to be thrown into his pig bag.

Edit: Actually, looking at a couple of NPCs in that game, rather large ones too, that pig is the largest NPC in the entire game. Except for maybe the Ghost Guardian of the Forest.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Here ya go: I think he even states that the pigs bodies are 78% fat or something. And just look at the size of him, he's huge. He starts talking at 4.49

HF1DO_k6JY4

Yeah. That is a huge ass pig. It's the size of a full grown male in that game in addition to being much wider than a male of that size, and is 78 percent fat. You can imagine how much it weighs.

Kain's a pretty big weakling if he can get punched by a shadow and be hurt. But yes, they can hurt Kain, because they have a physical form. The fictional worlds created in games use real world concepts. Like "a shadow can't hurt you normally because it doesn't have a physical form."

That repel shield does sound like a no limits fallacy. So if Kain can have that, I think that means the pig has to be thrown into his pig bag.

hes not that big, considering this is a jungle boy, not a man the pig is prob just about a foot or two above a full grown man, and fat weighs less than muscle so his fat only means he prob weighs less...which is no doubt why a boy can carry him.

Your assuming, ill w8 until you stop doing a Terry. you are stating over and over again something thats not actually said or shown in the game, and real world concepts? they dont have to use any real world concepts at all....especially when theres a manifested shadow being floating about...

Also the last evil pig looks nothing like light, more like energy. Hes emanating light/glowing which is true but he looks nothing like light as in, sunlight.

You dont even know what a no limits fallacy is....Kains spell shield does exactly what its name implies, calling it a no limits fallacy because it does what its supposed to do is retarded.

Originally posted by Burning thought
hes not that big, considering this is a jungle boy, not a man the pig is prob just about a foot or two above a full grown man, and fat weighs less than muscle so his fat only means he prob weighs less...which is no doubt why a boy can carry him.

Your assuming, ill w8 until you stop doing a Terry. you are stating over and over again something thats not actually said or shown in the game, and real world concepts? they dont have to use any real world concepts at all....especially when theres a manifested shadow being floating about...

Also the last evil pig looks nothing like light, more like energy. Hes emanating light/glowing which is true but he looks nothing like light as in, sunlight.

You dont even know what a no limits fallacy is....Kains spell shield does exactly what its name implies, calling it a no limits fallacy because it does what its supposed to do is retarded.

I've compared him to the largest human NPC in the game, Pham. The pig is about two feet taller than him, so you are correct there. But, 78% fat is still a lot. And the pig still weighs a lot. Tomba is abnormally strong. If you don't believe me on the speed, I'll show you the Tomba 2 intro, which has Tomba using his animal dash.

The next time you or anyone you know gets punched by a shadow and gets hurt, you let me know. Until then, these shadow creatures have a physical form unless you can prove otherwise.

It's light, and if you can't see that then there is no hope for you.

Look, if Kain's shield protects him from anything, it would have to be a no limits fallacy because he wouldn't be able to be beaten.

You called me out on feats, where are yours? I want feats on all of this crap. Feats on the sword stealing souls, feats on Kain's no limits fallacy, I mean repel shield.

Feats for Kain too. Strength, speed, durability, the whole nine yards. Get to it.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I've compared him to the largest human NPC in the game, Pham. The pig is about two feet taller than him, so you are correct there. But, 78% fat is still a lot. And the pig still weighs a lot. Tomba is abnormally strong. If you don't believe me on the speed, I'll show you the Tomba 2 intro, which has Tomba using his animal dash.

The next time you or anyone you know gets punched by a shadow and gets hurt, you let me know. Until then, these shadow creatures have a physical form unless you can prove otherwise.

It's light, and if you can't see that then there is no hope for you.

Look, if Kain's shield protects him from anything, it would have to be a no limits fallacy because he wouldn't be able to be beaten.

You called me out on feats, where are yours? I want feats on all of this crap. Feats on the sword stealing souls, feats on Kain's no limits fallacy, I mean repel shield.

Feats for Kain too. Strength, speed, durability, the whole nine yards. Get to it.

Your talking childlishly small numbers here, your talking a boy picking up a pig not much bigger than a man, the fact he is fat means little. The youngest and arguably weakest Kain before he gains any major strength can lift up a fully armoured man with one arm. Hell he can do this to the giant super knights which I cannot find a screenshot of yet but the actual normal knights are picked up. Kain would rip THROUGH the pig physically.

No until the game says otherwise, the Shadows are using the same magic that somehow manifests them as a reason for them being able to harm Kain.

Theres no light at all, it looks a tinge of green, its a ball of energy.

Ofcourse he can be beaten, just not by this pig, and the shield only lasts for about 10 seconds which is another weakness.

You want feats on the soul reaver stealing souls? lol....if ime really bored and since youve proven your lack of intellect already so far I may give you it.

I dont have to get to anything, youve yet to show me anything that would require Kain to do more than a punch....or if the pigs in energy form, any of his spells or his sword....

The pig has no real feats and those that he does have are extremely poor apart from the area of his time spell.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your talking childlishly small numbers here, your talking a boy picking up a pig not much bigger than a man, the fact he is fat means little. The youngest and arguably weakest Kain before he gains any major strength can lift up a fully armoured man with one arm. Hell he can do this to the giant super knights which I cannot find a screenshot of yet but the actual normal knights are picked up. Kain would rip THROUGH the pig physically.

No until the game says otherwise, the Shadows are using the same magic that somehow manifests them as a reason for them being able to harm Kain.

Theres no light at all, it looks a tinge of green, its a ball of energy.

Ofcourse he can be beaten, just not by this pig, and the shield only lasts for about 10 seconds which is another weakness.

You want feats on the soul reaver stealing souls? lol....if ime really bored and since youve proven your lack of intellect already so far I may give you it.

I dont have to get to anything, youve yet to show me anything that would require Kain to do more than a punch....or if the pigs in energy form, any of his spells or his sword....

The pig has no real feats and those that he does have are extremely poor apart from the area of his time spell.

ime not trying to prove that Tomba can lift 100 tons with ease, ime saying that Tomba is abnormally strong. And that pig may very well weigh one ton. For Tomba to throw him is not normal. Hence me saying abnormally strong. But wow, you sure do like to toss that childish word around a lot. You really must be insecure.

Okay, you haven't proven anything, so I'll be assuming you agree with me.

There's no hope for you.

Tell me how to beat the Repel shield then? Prove it can be beaten.

A name means nothing. Feats. Now. Get to it.

Until you show me feats on Kain's Strength, Speed, Durability, and the like Kain can't lift a feather, he gets beat in a foot race by a snail (doesn't even have any feet, pathetic Kain) and is impaled by a blade of grass.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Okay, you haven't proven anything, so I'll be assuming you agree with me.

There's no hope for you.

Tell me how to beat the Repel shield then? Prove it can be beaten.

A name means nothing. Feats. Now. Get to it.

Until you show me feats on Kain's Strength, Speed, Durability, and the like Kain can't lift a feather, he gets beat in a foot race by a snail (doesn't even have any feet, pathetic Kain) and is impaled by a blade of grass.

Playing silly buggers, aren't we?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
ime not trying to prove that Tomba can lift 100 tons with ease, ime saying that Tomba is abnormally strong. And that pig may very well weigh one ton. For Tomba to throw him is not normal. Hence me saying abnormally strong. But wow, you sure do like to toss that childish word around a lot. You really must be insecure.

Okay, you haven't proven anything, so I'll be assuming you agree with me.

There's no hope for you.

Tell me how to beat the Repel shield then? Prove it can be beaten.

A name means nothing. Feats. Now. Get to it.

Until you show me feats on Kain's Strength, Speed, Durability, and the like Kain can't lift a feather, he gets beat in a foot race by a snail (doesn't even have any feet, pathetic Kain) and is impaled by a blade of grass.



Its ridiculously small amount of strength, you were trying to make it sound like Kain would not match Tomba in strength....

Tell you how to beat it? you need to go and get a better more powerful character first....

No, until I show you feats, you will pretend to be silly bugger as AI suggesated and look like a fool, sorry..."more" of a fool than you already do.

Go and troll somewhere else kid, ill come back either when ime bored or when I find an actual real argument beyond blabbering nonsense.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its ridiculously small amount of strength, you were trying to make it sound like Kain would not match Tomba in strength....

Tell you how to beat it? you need to go and get a better more powerful character first....

No, until I show you feats, you will pretend to be silly bugger as AI suggesated and look like a fool, sorry..."more" of a fool than you already do.

Go and troll somewhere else kid, ill come back either when ime bored or when I find an actual real argument beyond blabbering nonsense.

Nope. Read my posts, you tried to downplay the Evil Pig by claiming he was manhandled by Tomba. I proved Tomba is abnormally strong. Good try though.

This character has Kain's powers, and so far Kain has yet to stop his Time spell.

No feats? Okay. Kain loses because he's a pussy. It was a pleasure to debate with you on this topic. Have yourself a nice day.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
No feats? Okay. Kain loses because he's a pussy. It was a pleasure to debate with you on this topic. Have yourself a nice day.

Kain can effortlessly lift up people by their necks with one hand, can easily go mano a mano with someone who can move ~30 ton boulders. His mist form gives him quick bursts of speed, but not like Kain is a snail without it anyway.

None of that helps him.

Kain can't use his repel shield until BT can prove it's not unbeatable.

The Evil Pig still has a very large portion of Kain's powers. And a light form that Kain can't harm.

Hell, BT claimed it was a ball of energy. That's even better. How will Kain harm energy?

Since BT can't with out Wanking Kain's dick off. He needs to concede.

cant destroy energy ever. at all. impossible.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
None of that helps him.

Kain can't use his repel shield until BT can prove it's not unbeatable.

The Evil Pig still has a very large portion of Kain's powers. And a light form that Kain can't harm.

Hell, BT claimed it was a ball of energy. That's even better. How will Kain harm energy?

That does not even make sense.

No the pig has no powers at all apart from its long casting time spell. Youve not even shown the pig copying actual weapons and even if he copied it, he cant hold a soul reaver without hands so he would have to come out of his energy form.

Yeh like magical energy, like how Kain can cast magical energy etc, energy bolts. Magical energy is damageable in fiction, you would have to prove that this fairly ambiguous form is actually untouchable. And thats physically ofc, Kain still slashes in one blow and takes the pigs soul.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
cant destroy energy ever. at all. impossible.

You can change its form and split it from a main source, the pig would then be eliminated beyond even physical obliteration.

Originally posted by Burning thought
That does not even make sense.

No the pig has no powers at all apart from its long casting time spell. Youve not even shown the pig copying actual weapons and even if he copied it, he cant hold a soul reaver without hands so he would have to come out of his energy form.

Yeh like magical energy, like how Kain can cast magical energy etc, energy bolts. Magical energy is damageable in fiction, you would have to prove that this fairly ambiguous form is actually untouchable. And thats physically ofc, Kain still slashes in one blow and takes the pigs soul.



You can change its form and split it from a main source, the pig would then be eliminated beyond even physical obliteration.

His strength is useless until he has a speed feat.

Yes, it does. Him copying weapons is in the boss fight, which you found a video of to show me his pig form.

When? When has "magical energy" ever been damaged?

can Kain can have all the power he once but that means shit if he can't hit his opponent.

Originally posted by Burning thought
That does not even make sense.

No the pig has no powers at all apart from its long casting time spell. Youve not even shown the pig copying actual weapons and even if he copied it, he cant hold a soul reaver without hands so he would have to come out of his energy form.

Yeh like magical energy, like how Kain can cast magical energy etc, energy bolts. Magical energy is damageable in fiction, you would have to prove that this fairly ambiguous form is actually untouchable. And thats physically ofc, Kain still slashes in one blow and takes the pigs soul.



You can change its form and split it from a main source, the pig would then be eliminated beyond even physical obliteration.
how would kain do this?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
His strength is useless until he has a speed feat.

Yes, it does. Him copying weapons is in the boss fight, which you found a video of to show me his pig form.

When? When has "magical energy" ever been damaged?

He does, your just not worth the time it would take to show one at the moment, which is prob a few seconds but w/e

Really? well show the vid and the time its shown, either way he cant hold it.

In many fictions, almost always magical energy can be damaged. Fact is the pig not being able to take damage in energy form is a negative, since in a debate we always take a positive over a negative until evidence is shown for the negative then Kain can hit the pigs energy/light/w/e form, whats interesting is that nothing is actually stated on the pigs form so its fair game for any of Kains attacks.
Originally posted by Phanteros
can Kain can have all the power he once but that means shit if he can't hit his opponent.
True...thing is, Kain can

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
how would kain do this?

Hit the energy with an attack that uses a more powerful energy source, which is all of his attacks considering the pigs durability in this form is featless but this is talking real energy, the pigs energy is unkown, featless etc..so its fair game.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He does, your just not worth the time it would take to show one at the moment, which is prob a few seconds but w/e

Really? well show the vid and the time its shown, either way he cant hold it.

In many fictions, almost always magical energy can be damaged. Fact is the pig not being able to take damage in energy form is a negative, since in a debate we always take a positive over a negative until evidence is shown for the negative then Kain can hit the pigs energy/light/w/e form, whats interesting is that nothing is actually stated on the pigs form so its fair game for any of Kains attacks.


You just don't get it, do you? Kain has to be fast enough to hit this pig. If not, the Pig won't even have to use time stop. He'll just laugh as Kain struggles to keep up.

Show the vid? You found your own video, didn't you watch the vid that you chose to use as evidence?

Maybe you do get it, and that's why you refuse to show any feats at all. Kain can't do a damn thing at all, because I haven't seen him do anything at all.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
You just don't get it, do you? Kain has to be fast enough to hit this pig. If not, the Pig won't even have to use time stop. He'll just laugh as Kain struggles to keep up.

Show the vid? You found your own video, didn't you watch the vid that you chose to use as evidence?

Maybe you do get it, and that's why you refuse to show any feats at all. Kain can't do a damn thing at all, because I haven't seen him do anything at all.

The pig is not fast though....a normal boy can keep up with it and Kain can teleport anyway so....youve not got anything to save the pig.

Sure, but since I dont play the game Tomba 2 and never have, the graphics do not shout at me "hes copying a weapon and using it against his foe!" I dont even have to watch the whole video either, i found the part relevent to me.

AS A.I, playing silly bugger wont help you.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The pig is not fast though....a normal boy can keep up with it and Kain can teleport anyway so....youve not got anything to save the pig.

Sure, but since I dont play the game Tomba 2 and never have, the graphics do not shout at me "hes copying a weapon and using it against his foe!" I dont even have to watch the whole video either, i found the part relevent to me.

AS A.I, playing silly bugger wont help you.

If that's all you've got, its pathetic and Kain has lost.

So, you have a video. Watch it and find out.

I don't know what you're talking about.

You proved my point, ah well as I said yesterday, until ime bored or until you come up with an argument you can continue playing silly bugger on your own until I return then ill have a go.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You proved my point, ah well as I said yesterday, until ime bored or until you come up with an argument you can continue playing silly bugger on your own until I return then ill have a go. Fine heres the argument:

Kain loses to guy who can who can stop time and copy weapons. Moo shows a vid as prove of his agrument. you ignore vid because you can't comprehend the fact Kain will lose to a E rated character Name the Last Evil Pig so you acting in denial. Did I hit the mark?

Originally posted by Phanteros
Fine heres the argument:

Kain loses to guy who can who can stop time and copy weapons. Moo shows a vid as prove of his agrument. you ignore vid because you can't comprehend the fact Kain will lose to a E rated character Name the Last Evil Pig so you acting in denial. Did I hit the mark?

No, Kain wins to a pig that can stop time within 10 seconds which is too long. Moo shows a vid that proves the pig can stop time, but is disproved on his statement of "with a thought" because it clearly takes longer than that unless the pigs in his game have a thought speed of 10 seconds. I take into account an aspect of a vid that is not taken into account by my opposition (moo) and show his foolishness, he now feels foolish and intellectually inadequate to face me in a proper debate so he decides to play silly bugger (ignoring information and pretending it does not exist despite obvious evidence) which is seen not just by me for your information but also by Artificial intelligence so if you want to bash him as well go ahead but you will only show your intellectual level is on the same level as Moo's.

The pig is both slow, slow at casting, has zero feats of durability and was manhandled by a jungle boy and tossed in a bag....he makes the term "cannot fight your way out of a paper bag" almost literal (barring the actual material of the bag). The pig is defeated quite easily as anyone who does have a objective and somewhat close to clever thought process would see that Kain who is far faster, stronger and able to kill the pig in a strike due to soul possessing weapons is the winner quite easily.

There's no real arguments left in this thread now, only trolling and baiting which unfortunately for the childish and intellectually inferior opposition I will not fall to, merely answer out of boredom when I am waiting for download to finish.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Fine heres the argument:

Kain loses to guy who can who can stop time and copy weapons. Moo shows a vid as prove of his agrument. you ignore vid because you can't comprehend the fact Kain will lose to a E rated character Name the Last Evil Pig so you acting in denial. Did I hit the mark?

I think you've summed this thread up quite nicely.

Let the records show that BT's Kain has been defeated by a character, better yet, a pig character from an E rated game. And this game actually IS meant for children.

Emo Twilight vampire (aka Kain) < The Last Evil Pig.

your evil pig can defeat the Legend of Zelda universe as well as Pyron at the same time with a thought lol...

of course the "real" evil pig from Tomba 2 games would be destroyed perhaps by some of the very lowest power levels in either series.

My Evil Pig is the real Evil Pig, unlike your emo vampire. There are three ways to go about this fight.

1. The Evil Pig stops Time and loses because Kain can't stop him. Repel shield isn't allowed since it cannot be beaten.

2. Repel Shield is allowed, and because of that the Evil Pig has to be thrown into his Evil Pig bag to be defeated.

3. The Evil Pig uses his pig form and since Kain has no feats to back him up, the Evil Pig makes Kain into a plaything.

The only thing you haven't done is give an argument or support to Kain, BT. Kain loses.

It's ArtificialGlory, damn you!

In all seriousness, Time Stop having a cast time will not work out in the Pig's favour.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
It's ArtificialGlory, damn you!


Deepest apologies

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
It's ArtificialGlory, damn you!

In all seriousness, Time Stop having a cast time will not work out in the Pig's favour. Why not?

Prob something to do with the pig having 10 seconds of Kain doing what he wants to do,the pig cannot move in these 10 seconds nor can it do anything else and evne Kain lets the pig let loose the spell, Kain would by now have the repel shield.....so the pig will freeze itself in time anyway

Out of curiosity, BT, do you ever factor in CIS during your Kain debates?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain would by now have the repel shield.....so the pig will freeze itself in time anyway

Repel Shield repel projectiles and attacks according to tooltip. I've never seen, heard nor read anything about it being able to return a status effect (global or otherwise) back on its opponent.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Out of curiosity, BT, do you ever factor in CIS during your Kain debates?

Character induced stupidity I assume the abbreviation?

Yes sometimes, why? is there something you have in mind?



Originally posted by C. C. Cowgirl!
Repel Shield repel projectiles and attacks according to tool tip. I've never seen, heard nor read anything about it being able to return a status effect (global or otherwise) back on its opponent.

Well actually thats because its not in the game play tool tip, Kain says it himself:



The tool tip points out "all enemy attacks" and outlines projectiles as well.

I like how people try and poke holes in kains powers yet nobody bothered to point out the huge cast time on the pigs spell until I did pages into the argument

What would you say is Kain's average reaction to perceived inferior beings?

I dont know, Kain is not as arrogent in his defiance form as he is in BO 2, if it was BO 2 Kain he may just kill them quickly. Problem is Kain hates humans which are the only real inferior being in LOK that Kain faces, Raziel athough inferior is important to Kain so he cannot really be factored. Id imagine at the sight of a pig in robes he would probably talk before attacking, although the pig by the looks of it would do the same.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Well actually thats because its not in the game play tool tip, Kain says it himself:



The tool tip points out "all enemy attacks" and outlines projectiles as well.

I like how people try and poke holes in kains powers yet nobody bothered to point out the huge cast time on the pigs spell until I did pages into the argument

I don't care about the pig. I'm talking about his shield. First of all, stopping time is not an actual attack, but rather a status effect. Secondly, it isn't cast at him, but rather the world around him.

A lot of spells fall into that category and I've seen nothing that allows Kain to protect himself from anything of the sort.

It shields him from spells, simple fact....if its a spell affecting him then its reflected. Its a field around Kain. Its irrelevant anyway but taking it into account the pig cannot actually stop Kain in time.

Theres always a target of a spell, in the pigs case its "people sleeping deeply" but hes never actually targeted something like the ground. Its illogical to think that a spell just because it has an AOE is not going to be affected by the shield, Kain is under a "protective aegis" as he says so if part of the spell is going to touch the aegis then its logical that its reflected, since thats the point of the shield. of course if we had a fireball and its explosion hit the shield then only that portion will logically be reflected, not the whole fireball.

Originally posted by Burning thought
It shields him from spells, simple fact....if its a spell affecting him then its reflected. Its a field around Kain. Its irrelevant anyway but taking it into account the pig cannot actually stop Kain in time.

Theres always a target of a spell, in the pigs case its "people sleeping deeply" but hes never actually targeted something like the ground. Its illogical to think that a spell just because it has an AOE is not going to be affected by the shield, Kain is under a "protective aegis" as he says so if part of the spell is going to touch the aegis then its logical that its reflected, since thats the point of the shield. of course if we had a fireball and its explosion hit the shield then only that portion will logically be reflected, not the whole fireball. Vid of this?

Originally posted by Burning thought
I dont know, Kain is not as arrogent in his defiance form as he is in BO 2, if it was BO 2 Kain he may just kill them quickly. Problem is Kain hates humans which are the only real inferior being in LOK that Kain faces, Raziel athough inferior is important to Kain so he cannot really be factored. Id imagine at the sight of a pig in robes he would probably talk before attacking, although the pig by the looks of it would do the same.

Well naturally, villains and most anti-heros have an undeniable urge to monologue. In any case, would he be so arrogant as to allow the pig to cast his spell?

I think I've brought up the Time spell affecting the world, including Kain, instead of it just affecting Kain

As for the "sleeping deeply" thing BT, that's just you trying to exploit what you think is a loophole. Those two words mean absolutely nothing. Right after the pig finishes casting his spell he says time stopped for everyone in the world. And once you enter his dimension, he starts talking about it and asks if you like the new world he's created.

Something else I've forgotten, the Evil Pig has demonstrated an ability to turn beings into stone. So there's another way Kain loses.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I think I've brought up the Time spell affecting the world, including Kain, instead of it just affecting Kain

As for the "sleeping deeply" thing BT, that's just you trying to exploit what you think is a loophole. Those two words mean absolutely nothing. Right after the pig finishes casting his spell he says time stopped for everyone in the world. And once you enter his dimension, he starts talking about it and asks if you like the new world he's created.

Something else I've forgotten, the Evil Pig has demonstrated an ability to turn beings into stone. So there's another way Kain loses.

No, it affects a continent, as the pig says "sleeping on the continent", as Nemebro pointed out hyperbolic narrative goes on after he casts the spell where he tries to make Tomba fear the worst. Problem is, either way its a targeted spell, so he would have to have Kain as a target to turn him frozen in time to begin with, ofcourse, the Repel shield will not allow it.

Those two words mean nothing yet the pieces of the text you want to be true actually mean something? you dont even have a reason lol......as Nemebro said and as I mentioend above, after hes actually cast the spell which was targeted at those sleeping deeply he goes into narrative hyperbole.

yeh let me guess, this power takes a whole hour for him to cast? lol.....and the effect lasts 2 seconds...theres bound to be some other huge weakness to the move.

kain just slices the pig once within about 2 seconds....or makes himself invulerable in 1 second with repel shield, then goes on to destroy the pig quite easily.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Well naturally, villains and most anti-heros have an undeniable urge to monologue. In any case, would he be so arrogant as to allow the pig to cast his spell?

No, first its massively obvious when the pig is casting a spell, he even anounches it and second the Pig would be talking too....thing is when they actually decide to act Kain can defeat the pig in a few seconds wheras the pig has to sit there still for a whole 10 seconds to cast an obvious spell that may not work by the end of it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No, it affects a continent, as the pig says "sleeping on the continent", as Nemebro pointed out hyperbolic narrative goes on after he casts the spell where he tries to make Tomba fear the worst. Problem is, either way its a targeted spell, so he would have to have Kain as a target to turn him frozen in time to begin with, ofcourse, the Repel shield will not allow it.

Those two words mean nothing yet the pieces of the text you want to be true actually mean something? you dont even have a reason lol......as Nemebro said and as I mentioend above, after hes actually cast the spell which was targeted at those sleeping deeply he goes into narrative hyperbole.

yeh let me guess, this power takes a whole hour for him to cast? lol.....and the effect lasts 2 seconds...theres bound to be some other huge weakness to the move.

kain just slices the pig once within about 2 seconds....or makes himself invulerable in 1 second with repel shield, then goes on to destroy the pig quite easily.

No, the pig makes numerous references to the whole world being frozen in time. Even long after his spell was cast. Repel shield is not allowed since it cannot be beaten. It's just like Ganon only being hurt by the Master Sword.

And yes, the pieces that are true mean something. Because they're true.

I don't know. All I know is he's turned two living beings to stone, and shrunk an abnormally tall tree to a foot high by turning it to stone.

Kain can't win. And now we don't even have to pretend a colorless Kain is a statue, since we can literally turn him into a statue.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
No, the pig makes numerous references to the whole world being frozen in time. Even long after his spell was cast. Repel shield is not allowed since it cannot be beaten. It's just like Ganon only being hurt by the Master Sword.

And yes, the pieces that are true mean something. Because they're true.

I don't know. All I know is he's turned two living beings to stone, and shrunk an abnormally tall tree to a foot high by turning it to stone.

Kain can't win. And now we don't even have to pretend a colorless Kain is a statue, since we can literally turn him into a statue.

No, Kains version of "ganon only being hurt by master sword" is an immutable time stream that does not allow Kain to be defeated in any situation. Repel shield is just a magic spell Kain can cast..its like taking away the pigs Time spell.....

The pig says both, only thing is the actual spell and the beings he is targeting are said while hes making the spell. Anything said afterwards is just a narrative hyperbole.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No, Kains version of "ganon only being hurt by master sword" is an immutable time stream that does not allow Kain to be defeated in any situation. Repel shield is just a magic spell Kain can cast..its like taking away the pigs Time spell.....

The pig says both, only thing is the actual spell and the beings he is targeting are said while hes making the spell. Anything said afterwards is just a narrative hyperbole.

The Repel shield protects against anything does it not?

Keep reaching all you want. The time spell stops anything and everything. Water doesn't flow and becomes as solid as rock, everything loses color and people don't move, regardless of whether or not they were sleeping.