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who wins here ?

batman vs wolverine H2H fight.

no bat belt

no healing no adamantium skeleton


fight to the finish

i'm almost afraid to say this.............Batman.........oh no wait maybe wolvie, he still has the speed, strength and senses advantage.

If you're trying to say you're taking away all logan's mutant powers/ metal skeleton and leaving him with his acquired skill/experience, then yeah, i'd say batman.

Batman.

Wolverine still has skills, but Bruce would take a solid majority over a non-healing/non-adamantium Logan.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Batman.

Batman. He's shown actual technique and skills more often.

wolverine still has claws.

Wolverine. Arguing skill is pointless and time-consuming, so to simplify things I'll say they're just about equal. Assuming they aren't affected by the absence of a healing factor and adamantium skeleton, he's faster and stronger than Batman; still has his senses to help him out; and has extremely dense bones.

Take away those advantages, and Batman would win due to a size, reach, and weight advantage.

logan would still murder bats.. logan would still retain all his MA skills and meta lvl physical abilities speed reaction time and denser bones.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
logan would still murder bats.. logan would still retain all his MA skills and meta lvl physical abilities speed reaction time and denser bones. murder is a strong word........how many times has bats fought someone with h2h skill and superior physical ability and still came out on top?

Batman 7/10.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Wolverine. Arguing skill is pointless and time-consuming, so to simplify things I'll say they're just about equal. Assuming they aren't affected by the absence of a healing factor and adamantium skeleton, he's faster and stronger than Batman; still has his senses to help him out; and has extremely dense bones.

Take away those advantages, and Batman would win due to a size, reach, and weight advantage.


Originally posted by Wild Shadow
logan would still murder bats.. logan would still retain all his MA skills and meta lvl physical abilities speed reaction time and denser bones.

I doubt you could prove Logan is faster or stronger by feats.
He doesn't have any speed or reaction advantage over Bruce, sorry.

He's got superhuman reaction time. The numbers literally prove it.

Originally posted by Enyalus
He's got superhuman reaction time. The numbers literally prove it.

Both of them do.

Batman 8/10

Wolvie still has what it takes to bring down the bat.

Originally posted by grimify
I doubt you could prove Logan is faster or stronger by feats.
He doesn't have any speed or reaction advantage over Bruce, sorry. even without his healing and adamantium skeleton wolverine is still a mutant which is usually stronger and faster than any human being. yes batman is fater then lots of other mutants but wolvie is a little different.

Originally posted by chomperx9
even without his healing and adamantium skeleton wolverine is still a mutant which is usually stronger and faster than any human being. yes batman is fater then lots of other mutants but wolvie is a little different.

Some day people will get over the idea that Bruce is just "some guy in a suit".

Bruce has insane strength and speed feats, he is in no way outclassed physically here.

Originally posted by namorsubby
murder is a strong word........how many times has bats fought someone with h2h skill and superior physical ability and still came out on top?

Same can be said for Wolvie, tho.

Wolverine without his adamantium is one-thing because he didn't have it all threw his life, but his healing factor is another he was born with that right? Wolverine is being handicapped because he happens to have been born with a powerful healing factor.

Wait Bats isn't strong enough to really do damage to Wolverine'


without adamantium he has taken hits and been fine from way stronger people then spiderman and his bones didnt even need to heal. Whats gonna make bats do better

Originally posted by jalek moye
Wait Bats isn't strong enough to really do damage to Wolverine'


without adamantium he has taken hits and been fine from way stronger people then spiderman and his bones didnt even need to heal. Whats gonna make bats do better was that sarcasm or an honest statement ?

Originally posted by chomperx9
was that sarcasm or an honest statement ?

He really does have superhuman durable bone structure.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He really does have superhuman durable bone structure. i know that but i just couldnt tell if he was being sarcastic in the post or it was for real.

Logan but barely.

Originally posted by chomperx9
was that sarcasm or an honest statement ?
i'm serious

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
Batman 8/10

Originally posted by jalek moye
Wait Bats isn't strong enough to really do damage to Wolverine'


without adamantium he has taken hits and been fine from way stronger people then spiderman and his bones didnt even need to heal. Whats gonna make bats do better

So a guy who can hurt herald levels and metas in h2h can't hurt Wolverine?

Bone Claw Wolverine's caused physical damage to skyfathers, and ripped apart X-Man & Franklin amped Onslaught's force fields...

Your move.

Batman ended Darkseids reign with a gun

Originally posted by iceman24567
Batman ended Darkseids reign with a gun
IT KILLZ TEH IDEAZ THO!!

Originally posted by grimify
So a guy who can hurt herald levels and metas in h2h can't hurt Wolverine?



Batman hurting anyone with superhuman durability using only h2h combat is retarded. The reason Wolverine tends to get away with it is the cutting power of his claws. If Wolverine has an on-panel showing of beating or at least hurting a high-meta or herald, it's criticized and labeled as PIS... yet the second Batman does it using only punches and kicks, nobody says anything because it's Batman...

Doesn't seem right to me. We all have our favorite characters, but FFS, accept their limitations.

Originally posted by Enyalus
IT KILLZ TEH IDEAZ THO!!

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Batman hurting anyone with superhuman durability using only h2h combat is retarded. The reason Wolverine tends to get away with it is the cutting power of his claws. If Wolverine has an on-panel showing of beating or at least hurting a high-meta or herald, it's criticized and labeled as PIS... yet the second Batman does it using only punches and kicks, nobody says anything because it's Batman...

Doesn't seem right to me. We all have our favorite characters, but FFS, accept their limitations.

You can call it what you want, but arguing against what happens repeatedly on panel is silly.

Just because you don't think he should be able to doesn't change the fact that he can.

Batman.

Originally posted by grimify
You can call it what you want, but arguing against what happens repeatedly on panel is silly.

Just because you don't think he should be able to doesn't change the fact that he can.

So what are you saying? That anybody near Batman's strength level is capable of smacking around and hurting guys like The Spectre and Solomon Grundy? Or are you saying that it can be overlooked simply because it's Batman and DC's okay with milking his popularity for all it's worth by giving him more of these ridiculous feats?

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
So what are you saying? That anybody near Batman's strength level is capable of smacking around and hurting guys like The Spectre and Solomon Grundy? Or are you saying that it can be overlooked simply because it's Batman and DC's okay with milking his popularity for all it's worth by giving him more of these ridiculous feats?

And Wolverine's organs would be turned into liquid if he got hit even once by a character like Hulk. Do you honestly think Wolverine doesn't get the star treatment for being a flagship character?

Both of them are PIS induced characters, both operate beyond what would you would consider "normal". That's the way it is. The fact that you don't like it doesn't change it.

Originally posted by grimify
And Wolverine's organs would be turned into liquid if he got hit even once by a character like Hulk. Do you honestly think Wolverine doesn't get the star treatment for being a flagship character?

Both of them are PIS induced characters, both operate beyond what would you would consider "normal". That's the way it is. The fact that you don't like it doesn't change it.

Yeah, but that was addressed (albeit lazily) by writers, stating that his organs get damaged and at times do liquefy when hit by multi-ton impacts, but that his healing factor heals the damage pretty much instantly.

It's not the greatest explanation, but I can accept it because Wolverine actually has powers, and sure enough, one of them is the power to heal. Batman, on the other hand, has no powers. He doesn't have the strength necessary to overcome the durability some of his most mismatched opponents have, for the most part, consistently shown.

How is it that one can argue that Batman can slap around these insanely-powerful characters, and yet in another thread, said characters can solo entire teams like the JLA, the JSA, the Avengers, etc?

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Yeah, but that was addressed (albeit lazily) by writers, stating that his organs get damaged and at times do liquefy when hit by multi-ton impacts, but that his healing factor heals the damage pretty much instantly.

It's not the greatest explanation, but I can accept it because Wolverine actually has powers, and sure enough, one of them is the power to heal. Batman, on the other hand, has no powers. He doesn't have the strength necessary to overcome the durability some of his most mismatched opponents have, for the most part, consistently shown.

How is it that one can argue that Batman can slap around these insanely-powerful characters, and yet in another thread, said characters can solo entire teams like the JLA, the JSA, the Avengers, etc?

You're right, it's not a good explanation at all. Not to mention a shot to the head would knock him out, no questions asked. His brain slamming into his adamantium skull at such a high impact would cause loss of consciousness, regardless of healing.

Not to mention healing at that rate would mean he can't lose to anyone street level, but he has, repeatedly.

How is it? It's because comics are inconsistent, and always have been. Or are you saying Batman is the only character who has high and low showings?

Originally posted by grimify
You're right, it's not a good explanation at all. Not to mention a shot to the head would knock him out, no questions asked. His brain slamming into his adamantium skull at such a high impact would cause loss of consciousness, regardless of healing.

Not to mention healing at that rate would mean he can't lose to anyone street level, but he has, repeatedly.

How is it? It's because comics are inconsistent, and always have been. Or are you saying Batman is the only character who has high and low showings?
I won't argue too much about the durability of Batman, Wolverine, or any other street-leveler... for the reason that even normal people caught in the middle of hero/villain brawls seem to have some small degree of superhuman durability. For some reason, writers have highly-skilled street-levelers cause more damage to other street-levelers than do metas.

What I will argue, however, is damage output. Just about every character has their high and low showings, but those don't really count because the characters in question are not at those levels consistently enough. When they are at that level, either they got an upgrade of some kind, or the writers are churning out subpar material unfaithful to the character and his abilities/limitations. Batman hurting Grundy, when the latter is normally shrugging off haymakers from Superman or Green Lantern, is just bullshit.

That's all I really gotta say about Batman vs. Metas/Herald-level opponents.

Back on topic, Wolverine gets a majority in h2h, unless you strip him of the rest of his natural advantages (enhanced strength/speed, high bone density, etc.)

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

What I will argue, however, is damage output. Just about every character has their high and low showings, but those don't really count because the characters in question are not at those levels consistently enough. When they are at that level, either they got an upgrade of some kind, or the writers are churning out subpar material unfaithful to the character and his abilities/limitations. Batman hurting Grundy, when the latter is normally shrugging off haymakers from Superman or Green Lantern, is just bullshit.

That's all I really gotta say about Batman vs. Metas/Herald-level opponents.

Back on topic, Wolverine gets a majority in h2h, unless you strip him of the rest of his natural advantages (enhanced strength/speed, high bone density, etc.)

Like I said, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't count. It's happened consistently throughout Bruce's history.

Back on topic, Batman takes a good majority over Wolverine without his healing and adamantium.

Originally posted by grimify
Like I said, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't count. It's happened consistently throughout Bruce's history

So if Wolverine started punching out guys like Juggernaut and Hulk more than a couple of times, with no changes to his current strength-level, you'd be okay with it? I sure as hell wouldn't.

I don't like it because it's way too farfetched to suspend disbelief due to the disparity between Batman's damage output and the other character's durability. I also doubt these showings are consistent in Batman's history.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
So if Wolverine started punching out guys like Juggernaut and Hulk more than a couple of times, with no changes to his current strength-level, you'd be okay with it? I sure as hell wouldn't.

I don't like it because it's way too farfetched to suspend disbelief due to the disparity between Batman's damage output and the other character's durability. I also doubt these showings are consistent in Batman's history.

If Wolverine started punching out Juggernaut and Hulk consistently, then that's that. It doesn't matter if I'm ok with it, if it's happening over and over, that's the way it is.

And yea, Bruce has injured more powerful characters than a Wolverine consistently, and Wolverine has been put down by street levelers.
I don't care if you think Wolverine would win, he's got skill (not enough, imo), but saying Batman can't even hurt him is just silly.

Originally posted by grimify
If Wolverine started punching out Juggernaut and Hulk consistently, then that's that. It doesn't matter if I'm ok with it, if it's happening over and over, that's the way it is.

And yea, Bruce has injured more powerful characters than a Wolverine consistently, and Wolverine has been put down by street levelers.
I don't care if you think Wolverine would win, he's got skill (not enough, imo), but saying Batman can't even hurt him is just silly.

I never said Batman couldn't hurt Wolverine. The only thing I'm debating against is Batman hurting anyone with considerable durability, because you mentioned that he's been shown to hurt metas and herald-level beings.

Originally posted by Digi
The "No PIS" Rule

PIS = Plot Induced Stupidity

At times, for the sake of the plot, characters that are immensely more powerful than their opponent will "job" to carry on the plot of the story, even though the characters powers and history would clearly show that they are more than capable of destroying their opponent. For this reason we have a No PIS Rule. This rule prohibits the use of such instances of PIS from being used as evidence in debates.


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html

Bats could probably shatter Onslaught`s armor and punch a hole trough Exitar with just his fist and the power of sheer awesomeness.

bump

Wolverine takes the high majority. He is physically superior in every way, has vastly superhuman sense and a more skilled fighter. If he wants to make it quick he sweeps out Bruce's legs and makes him tap out with his ground game. Wolverine's strength advantage should give him a sound edge in grappling and holds.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine takes the high majority. He is physically superior in every way, has vastly superhuman sense and a more skilled fighter. If he wants to make it quick he sweeps out Bruce's legs and makes him tap out with his ground game. Wolverine's strength advantage should give him a sound edge in grappling and holds. i bought borderlands instead of uncharted 2 does that make me an ass ?

Originally posted by chomperx9
i bought borderlands instead of uncharted 2 does that make me an ass ? I bought MW2 first day.

I am ass.

Originally posted by Blanket
I bought MW2 first day.

I am ass. borderlands more addicting than MW2

Originally posted by chomperx9
i bought borderlands instead of uncharted 2 does that make me an ass ?

Borderlands is the shit!

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut Uncharted 2 kicks it in the nuts and takes its lunch money. So, I guess so?

Originally posted by Blanket
I bought MW2 first day.

I am ass.

Hard to say, but the odds are good that are you are either A) 13 or B) a d-bag frat boy who keeps an shelf of empty beer bottles above his bed.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Hard to say, but the odds are good that are you are either A) 13 or B) a d-bag frat boy who keeps an shelf of empty beer bottles above his bed. 13

Originally posted by Blanket
13

Based on your sig, thats where the safe money was.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Based on your sig, thats where the safe money was. You know you love J-Bieb.

10 year old girls across Canada can not be wrong.

Originally posted by Blanket
You know you love J-Bieb.

10 year old girls across Canada can not be wrong.

I had never even heard of him until I saw Shutter Island a week ago. How fortunate I was that the movie theater played his video a dozen times while I was there! I mean if there is one thing all of humanity can agree on, its that we need more Arron Carters. To think, I could have stayed home that day, and I wonder never have even heard of younge mister Bieber! What a sad and bleak world that would be.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I had never even heard of him until I saw Shutter Island a week ago. How fortunate I was that the movie theater played his video a dozen times while I was there! I mean if there is one thing all of humanity can agree on, its that we need more Arron Carters. To think, I could have stayed home that day, and I wonder never have even heard of younge mister Bieber! What a sad and bleak world that would be. No shit. Although a week ago you could have watched Much and seen about a hundred or so girls crying and screaming for an hour straight. You would have had a greater understanding of his power then.

Although I'm still glad you found a higher power when you did. Better late than never.

I haven't watched MUCH in years, and even then it was only an 30 minutes or an hour a week (I forget), late on Friday or Saturday when the played MUCH Loud.

... I guess I watch Video on Trail some times though, because it can be funny.

That and MuchMore are really all I watch now, when I watch TV.

Ya, they absolutely hate Nickleback.