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Everything that happened in their respective cinematic "lives" will happen to the opposite person, though not necessarily in the same manner, and they may very well be killed off early. In this case, Johns family is now Rorschachs foster family whom he regards as innocents. John doesn't wear a mask, but is considered a "superhero". Besides the battles, I want to hear what actually happens to them day to day, minute to minute.

Rorschach would pwn Hans. I mean come on, he's better than McClane in everyway minus the luck factor. I don't see McClane doing well against Ozymandias.

McClane wouldn't be stupid enough to face Ozymandias in H2H, he would have waiting until Archimedes unfrozen and flown it up Ozymandias' ass.

Originally posted by Robtard
McClane wouldn't be stupid enough to face Ozymandias in H2H So he's smart enough to have learned his track record against martial artists? haermm

Undoubtably.


"Thats enough of this kung-fu shit" - John McClane


He beat all those he faced who were MA guys, despite what someone would used to maintain against the face of reason, logic, and most importantly, what happened in the movies.

That person said it in butthurt, irrelevant but angry retort to the pointing out that Riggs couldnt beat an impaled Jet li, and needed Roger Murtaugh to shoot him..

Fact is, though Ninja Chick had speed on McClane, he smashed her to f**k, knocking her unconcious, and he went about his day, having spared her vulnerable, unconcious ass.

She not knowing when to quit (lucky for the audience) kicked McClane through a window and went about trying to destroy the eastern seaboard, threatening Matthew in the process.

Knowing that taking his time could destroy New York, Washington etc
He grabbed an SUV and drove it into her ass, for that time, saving the day.

Rorschach solos the entire Nakatomi Plaza and strangles Gruber personally.

McClane dies horribly at the hands of Veidt.

Pretty much.

Veidt is not superhuman.

McClane is superhuman in endurance.

And with his luck, Veidt beats up on McClane and then McClane trips him and sends him out the window.


There is no evidence to suggest that Rorschash could have made that shot that the end of DH1.

(He matches otherwise, I would guess.)

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Veidt is not superhuman.

McClane is superhuman in endurance.

And with his luck, Veidt beats up on McClane and then McClane trips him and sends him out the window. I despise that whole post.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
There is no evidence to suggest that Rorschash could have made that shot that the end of DH1. The situation wouldn't have progressed that far. Walter would have killed him long before that.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Veidt is not superhuman.

McClane is superhuman in endurance.

And with his luck, Veidt beats up on McClane and then McClane trips him and sends him out the window.


There is no evidence to suggest that Rorschash could have made that shot that the end of DH1.

(He matches otherwise, I would guess.)

Which is why I said that Rorschach would strangle Gruber, instead of making the money shot that saved Holley.

Ah fair play. Missed that.

Rorschach would have died. He doesn't like to use guns. He would have tried to rush the Germans and gotten shot down.

McClane wouldn't have joined the Watchmen. He would have become an NYPD detective. As an NYPD detective he would have uncovered ozys intentions and secret plans and told Manhattan to get off his big blue ass and save the world and Big blue would have then complied.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Rorschach would have died. He would have tried to rush the Germans and gotten shot down. I seriously doubt this.

Rorschach MAY have done what John did but ultimately lose when Hans pretended to be Bill Clay.

So basically your implying that McClane is smarter than Rorschach. The man trusts no one.

It was more intuitive logic than anything. And Rorschachs moral code prevents him harming certain people. I was only half serious anyway. I don't ever see Walter with a gun though, which is a disadvantage if you don't have superhuman strength and durability or armor.

The man needs no firearm. We're talking about someone who's Bourne's rival when it comes to resourcefulness and turning any object into a weapon.

You could say that for McClane too.

I wouldn't quite put him on those two guys level but he's up there as is Bond.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
The man needs no firearm. We're talking about someone who's Bourne's rival when it comes to resourcefulness and turning any object into a weapon.


why is Bourne the end all when it comes to resourcefulness?

Uhhh, because throughout his films he's turned the likes of a magazine, newspaper, champagne, pen, wash cloth, and a book into a deadly weapon?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Veidt is not superhuman.

...You saw the movie, right?




He's not superhuman, though.




God, this is silly.

Yes I did. Exaggerated human laden Violence..
Stylistic for the camera.
But no one in that movie was a superpower weilder except Dr. Manhattan. Fact.
But the director insisted on Batman armour and stylistic frame rate changes and strength etc
Do you consider Batman and Ironman be superhuman..?

Have YOU seen the movie..?
(It has the bit where Hollis wrote that the arrival of Dr. Manhattan was the dawning of the age of the super hero. Cause everyone previous and subsequent was a masked avenger.)

True. You noticed my using the term loosely. Well done.


And yes. It is. Welcome to KMC.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
But no one in that movie was a superpower weilder except Dr. Manhattan. Fact. Yet you claim McClane is?

Ozymandias is superhuman in strength, speed, and reflexes. Fact. Comedian was superhuman as well. Nite Owl, Rorschach, and Silk Spectre? Not so much, yet I'd say those three are superior to Batman by varying degrees.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Do you consider Batman and Ironman be superhuman..? Batman? No. Iron Man? Yes, his armor grants him superhuman strength, durability, and flight capable of supersonic speeds.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Welcome to KMC. He's not new.

No. As I said above. The word superhuman is used loosely with Mcclane, like with the non-Doc Manhattan watchmen.


They werent meant to be. Doc Manhattan was the 1st superhuman in that universe. Everyone else is just a human masked avenger.


Thats just a dude in an armoured suit not a superpowered human being.




I know hes not new.

McClane would have became Dr. McClane and pwned everything and lets not forget... gets the bitches

For the argument of "who'd win in a fight, Ozymandias vs McClane" the answer is undoubtedly Ozy.

I dunno. Night owl gave him a beating, and Night owl is human.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
I dunno. Night owl gave him a beating, and Night owl is human.

Veidt just stood there and took it, and looked barely phased at all.

His face showed damage. And if Nightowl had gone to work on his nuts, or carried on, he could have beat him.

(But as he didnt even react like that in the graphic novel, it would have been too much for him to kill Veidt off. )

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
I dunno. Night owl gave him a beating, and Night owl is human. Nite Owl would wreck McClane's shit. Ozymandias wasn't even fighting against Nite Owl in that instance. When he did put up a fight he pwned Nite Owl and Rorschach with seemingly ease.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
His face showed damage. And if Nightowl had gone to work on his nuts, or carried on, he could have beat him.

(But as he didnt even react like that in the graphic novel, it would have been too much for him to kill Veidt off. )

How could Niteowl have beaten Veidt solo if he couldnt even beat him with Rorschach's help?

Well.

There you go.

Rorscash couldnt beat him.

No shame in McClane not being able to beat him either.

But McClane is more lucky than Rorschash.
And since McClane would have realised the point of not telling the world about what had transpired, he wouldnt have been destroyed by Manhattan.

Mac Wins! Woot!

Originally posted by Quincy
How could Niteowl have beaten Veidt solo if he couldnt even beat him with Rorschach's help?

Cause Adrian felt he deserved it by then.

McClane's luck comes to him when he's about to fall of a bridge or is conjuring up a plan. Not in the middle of a h2h fight as we've seen over the years.

The movies dispute that.

Please enlighten me. McClane got the SUV after she kicked his ass. McClane blew the plane up after he kicked him off.

Ok.

The 1st fight he had against Karl's brother in Die hard 1.
He could very easily have been the one with thew broken neck.

The sudden finding of chains to put around Karls neck...

Using the lever chain gag againstthe russian in DH3.
The fact that McClane was being shot at in the cable descent, and the truck fell, pulling the cable tight, killing the guty shooting at him.

Shooting that guy through with single shots the table in DH1 before the guy could return fire on full auto was pretty lucky.

Lucking out and managing to find an ice pick to kill that army dude in DH2.

The luck of his gun being accessable on that escalator in the airport, in the bottleneck ambush.... (and most of that fight, for that matter.)

The hamster guy.

Getting out of that grenade situation at the end of the confict with the marines when Esparonza landed.

When McClane is blind shooting round corners, and plugging badguys in DH 4.0.

The bit where McClane is jammy enough to not be killed when that Jetski exploded, and jammy enough not to get caught when that Jetskier passed opening upon McClane with live rounds whilst McClane had blanks.

These are just a few instances of more typical McClane luck situations.
Hope that helps, grasshopper.

Also, she cheap shotted him after waking up from the unconciousness that he put he into. Not exactlty an asskicking other than the fact that the ambuih shot was a kick.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Please enlighten me. McClane got the SUV after she kicked his ass. McClane blew the plane up after he kicked him off.

Correction: He kicked her ass, ie he actually knocked her out. He got into SUV because he needed to get back up there to save the computer-boy ASAP. Really, just shows how resourceful McClane is.

Originally posted by Robtard
Correction: He kicked her ass, ie he actually knocked her out. He got into SUV because he needed to get back up there to say the computer-boy ASAP. Really, just shows how resourceful McClane is.

QFT

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
QFT

How many times has this been disproved and the clowns still come up with "she beat McClane" nonsense.

Yes. I think its a cry for help, with those people.

Originally posted by Robtard
Correction: He kicked her ass, ie he actually knocked her out. He got into SUV because he needed to get back up there to save the computer-boy ASAP. Really, just shows how resourceful McClane is.

90% of the time I am just bustin your chops about that. Mac beat her, just like Riggs beat Travis. Different methods, but they still won in the end.

Fair enough.

On that note......Riggs never lost a fight

McClane didnt....and somehow he lost less fights that Riggs new 'zero'.

Anyway. Riggs is just a movie character played by Mel Gibson in McClane's world.

And McClane beats the f*** out of Gibson for sure.

Two different worlds, homey, one ruled by Mac, the other by Riggs.

Riggs pwned a guy with a surfboard

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Well.

There you go.

Rorscash couldnt beat him.

No shame in McClane not being able to beat him either.

But McClane is more lucky than Rorschash.
And since McClane would have realised the point of not telling the world about what had transpired, he wouldnt have been destroyed by Manhattan.

Mac Wins! Woot!

cigar Myeh, I was just arguing the "McClane vs Ozymandias" thing. This whole situation seems whacked out to me.

Ozy > McClane

To hell with Rorschach

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Two different worlds, homey, one ruled by Mac, the other by Riggs.

Riggs pwned a guy with a surfboard

Well McClane owns both as I just proved..

Dial 555-McClane in LW world, McClane turns up.
Dial 555-Riggstaugh in the DH world, and Mel Gibson and Danny glover turn up.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Well McClane owns both as I just proved..

Dial 555-McClane in LW world, McClane turns up.
Dial 555-Riggstaugh in the DH world, and Mel Gibson and Danny glover turn up. Dont forget Al, the airport repairman, Zues, Farrell......Mac was never really alone.

Its ok. McClane gets directions sometimes.

You dont see me mentioning Rigg's help from Alfred and his little friends, the hooker, the hamburger salesman etc...

McClane never really had effective backing of his whole police unit until DH3.

Would Mac have lived in DH 1 if it wasnt for Al? Nope.

Would Mac have gotten the job done without the repairman in DH2? Nope.

Would Mac have got the job done without Zeus in DH3? Nope.

Would Mac have known where to find the bad guy in DH4 without Farrell and the Wizard? Nope.

Yes. It could have been any other cop and the result would have been the same.

No maybe not there,cause ofthe radio thing.... but Marvin was a plotdevice. Thats all.

Well that doesnt matter.
McClane's luck was why the situation involved Zeus. So thats alright.

You ignore the paradox in your statement. Without Farrell being there, Mac would be out arresting some other scumbag that day, clipping his toenails, beering.... anything...instead of being assigned to Matthew. So he'd have been fine.



Riggs need Murtaugh all the time like a strange manbaby that needed his bottom wiped.

The answer you seek is no on all four counts.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
I dunno. Night owl gave him a beating, and Night owl is human.

Veidt just stood there is in order to satisfy Nite Owl. And considering he showed no pain other than skin-based, he wasn't even really hurt.

But physically he was hurt. The bruises showed that.

I'm having a really, really hard time seeing how McClane winning makes even an ounce of sense. Superhumanity doesn't even matter. The fact is that Ozymandias can catch bullets, take out two super strong and skilled people(both tough enough to fight hard core prisoners and the like), has almost unmissable accuracy(taking someone of the Comedian's calibre to dodge), and strength that's almost of, being contradictory, superhuman(throwing 200 pound men at least 10 to 20 feet away).

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
But physically he was hurt. The bruises showed that.

Wrong. His bruises showed that his skin was damaged. There was nothing to show that he was hurt. He showed no pain.

There is more evidence through the damage done, that there would have been pain, rather than not.

Your sig and avvy are cool btw.

Originally posted by Mr. Rhythmic
I'm having a really, really hard time seeing how McClane winning makes even an ounce of sense. Superhumanity doesn't even matter. The fact is that Ozymandias can catch bullets, take out two super strong and skilled people(both tough enough to fight hard core prisoners and the like), has almost unmissable accuracy(taking someone of the Comedian's calibre to dodge), and strength that's almost of, being contradictory, superhuman(throwing 200 pound men at least 10 to 20 feet away).

All he has to do is endure the beating.

And Im pretty sure he can do that.

Why is that moment even considered in this fight? Veidt let Dan just hit him in the face over and over.

Dan is strong enough to casually compound fracture a mans arm with ease. McClane I've never seen do something like that.

Yeah it was silly.

Originally posted by Quincy

Dan is strong enough to casually compound fracture a mans arm with ease. McClane I've never seen do something like that.

It's not so much that McClane could beat the piss out of Veidt (as he likely couldn't), but could Veidt crack McClane's unnaturally durable skull before he tired, which is what McClane does in fights, outlast mofos and then makes his move? See: DH2 fight with Travis.

Originally posted by Quincy
Why is that moment even considered in this fight? Veidt let Dan just hit him in the face over and over.

Dan is strong enough to casually compound fracture a mans arm with ease. McClane I've never seen do something like that.

You saw him fracture Karl's brother's neck, didnt you...?

The stairs did that.......

That was the choke hold that McClane had him in + The stairs + gravity + McClane's jammy, jammy luck..

No way in hell Rorschach wins the DH scenario. McClane? Well, we are talking about the master of improvising, with the luck of a dozen leprechauns.

Originally posted by Robtard
It's not so much that McClane could beat the piss out of Veidt (as he likely couldn't), but could Veidt crack McClane's unnaturally durable skull before he tired, which is what McClane does in fights, outlast mofos and then makes his move? Veidt would wreck McClane's shit in a fight and so would any member of the Watchmen. Hell, Hollis Mason might kill McClane.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No way in hell Rorschach wins the DH scenario. Walter would fair better than McClane. He's a far better H2H combatant. Plus his grapple gun would eliminate alot of problems John had.

Not really. Maybe during the "jump off the side of the building to escape the C4 explosion" bit.

That elevator shaft probably wouldn't count, since theres bugger all for it to latch on to.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Not really. Maybe during the "jump off the side of the building to escape the C4 explosion" bit. That elevator shaft probably wouldn't count, since theres bugger all for it to latch on to.

Sadako please, the man is in a skyscraper and your trying to tell me a grapple gun wouldn't be effective. He could break the windows and move from floor to floor easily with elevator shut down. Walter would esily overpower everyone John had trouble with in H2H like Karl. Not to mention, Walter has no loved ones inside the building.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Veidt would wreck McClane's shit in a fight and so would any member of the Watchmen. Hell, Hollis Mason might kill McClane.

Walter would fair better than McClane. He's a far better H2H combatant. Plus his grapple gun would eliminate alot of problems John had. And how good is he with guns?

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Sadako please, the man is in a skyscraper and your trying to tell me a grapple gun wouldn't be effective. He could break the windows and move from floor to floor easily with elevator shut down. Walter would esily overpower everyone John had trouble with in H2H like Karl. Not to mention, Walter has no loved ones inside the building.

No, thats not what I meant.

I just said that it would be pretty useless in the elevator shaft.

But since you mention it, the noise that doing whatyou suggested would make would give his position away (Like when McClane tried chairing that window).

The motivation of having someone prisoner inside said building was a good asset......it certainly made McClane motivated to kill the bad guys.

Rorschack'll hear the pleas and screams of the Nakatomi hostages crying to him: "Save us".

And he'll sayyyyy.......no.

Indeed. No way Rorschach saves the hostages.

Cant believe I just said Rorschack.

I made a "hasch" out of it, you might say...

Same shit, dead hostages.

Indeed.

"Rorschach's journal......In a big ass building, Naka something, party upstairs. Maybe I should OH **** I JUST GOT SHOT......"

Originally posted by Robtard
It's not so much that McClane could beat the piss out of Veidt (as he likely couldn't), but could Veidt crack McClane's unnaturally durable skull before he tired, which is what McClane does in fights, outlast mofos and then makes his move? See: DH2 fight with Travis.

But Veidt hits harder than anyone McCane has fought.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No way in hell Rorschach wins the DH scenario.

Oh please. The "Die Hard" movies are an average Tuesday for Rorschach.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
All he has to do is endure the beating.

And Im pretty sure he can do that.

But he CAN'T. Veidt is unbelievably powerful to a degree McCane never fought.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
There is more evidence through the damage done, that there would have been pain, rather than not.

That's saying that all massive damage means automatic pain, which it doesn't. The look of the bruises don't mean anything if they didn't effect him.




Thank you.

Thats because it was a film. And he looked slow to focus after the beating, anyway.

Also its classic strawman, isnt it? (as Rorshach couldnt beat him either.)

Originally posted by Mr. Rhythmic
Oh please. The "Die Hard" movies are an average Tuesday for Rorschach. How so? Rorschach would care nothing for the hostages, and for all we know, he is shit with guns.

Can't see how he's that much worse than McClane. Because he was real smooth firing that MP5. It doesn't take great skill to use a firearm.

Well first you have to know how to operate the damn thing. How to reload. Where the safety is. How to lead your target. Regular dude with no training picks up an MP5 and he gets a LOL.

It isn't that hard. I've never fired an MP5 but I know how to hold, load, aim, and fire it. It has a switch that is safety, semi, or automatic. Clip usually has 25 .9mm rounds. The gun itself is VERY heavy for it's size. You may think it's lightweight but it surely isn't.

I'm sure Rorschach knows how to use a gun. Batman doesn't employ them on the streets but he still knows how to operate them. He had to pass FBI exams and even has firearms in The Dark Knight.

Hell, Batman and Rorschach use guns. They just aren't firearms. Rorschach has his grapple gun and Batman utilizes the sticky bomb gun and grapple guns as well.

So you honestly think Rorschach can pick up an MP5 and use it as well as Mac?

Maybe not as well but you make it sound like he doesn't know how to hold a gun.

I never said that, all I meant to imply is that compared to Mac, he has no skills there. We never see him using a sub machine gun, so there is nothing to judge him on.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So you honestly think Rorschach can pick up an MP5 and use it as well as Mac?

Yes.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Thats because it was a film.

That is a terrible argument.




No he didn't. There was merely nothing left for him to do immediately. His job was done, and he was satisfied.




Straw can't be injured through pain.
And if Rorschach can't beat Veidt, then McClane is screwed.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
How so? Rorschach would care nothing for the hostages, and for all we know, he is shit with guns.

And yet we know his aim is incredible. And as for the hostages, he would to a level do his best to save them. But if you are right, then the situation's even easier for him.

We know his aim is incredible how?

Mac wins, but probably eats less baked beans than Rorschach.

RJ, I think you broke Sadako.

lol
He'd wish..