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ko, kill. battle middle of mount olympus

Hercules.

Val wins again. Pressure point or he finds a weak point.

Hercules wins. Too strong and too durable. Takes KK down UFC style and grounds and pounds him.

Hercules.

KK Judo Chops Herc in the nuts!

Herc kicks KK in the nuts Sentry-style.

Their is no girl for Herc to steal from Val... Val one shots him

Nah. Herc speedblitzes him.

It would be like Brock vs GSP.

too strong? tell that to monel. kk spared with him, while monel was using speed...for FUN.

herc without effort.

If KK can't take down supergirl, what makes you think he can take Herc?

Selective viewing of feats?

Originally posted by Konton
If KK can't take down supergirl, what makes you think he can take Herc?

Val was actually infected with a virus and he was STILL able to best Equus, who was shocked of how FAST Val was. Pre-crisis Val was keeping an enraged and mind controlled Superboy at bay. Which is one better than Hercules.

This isn't Pre Crisis Val.

Originally posted by Mindset
This isn't Pre Crisis Val.

who said? konto was pointing out the battle with supergirl, who was indeed pre-crisis val or classic val, however you want to see it.

no matters, though. if we're using the weakest incarnation, who sparred with Ultraboy, or punched out colossal boy out of a building with a single blow, or who KILLED an alien who gave the LOSH fits is still or around Hercs league.

OP didnt specify so, using the rules saying its current Val.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
who said? konto was pointing out the battle with supergirl, who was indeed pre-crisis val or classic val, however you want to see it.
I'm pretty sure Konton was referring to the semi-recent issues of Supergirl. Around 21-22, IIRC.

Huh? I kinda of just took it as KK at his beats... if he is not operating at those levels... then yeah... not sure.

Yes and no.

Each character is at their best and current. Unless stated other wise.

But at times current feats > or < old feats.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I'm pretty sure Konton was referring to the semi-recent issues of Supergirl. Around 21-22, IIRC.

so the weak, infected Val that was trying to save his own life? I guess it's Hercs lucky day.

He's been weak and infected for like, half of his post-crisis life.

KK FTW

Originally posted by Enyalus
I'm pretty sure Konton was referring to the semi-recent issues of Supergirl. Around 21-22, IIRC.

That's what's up.

Herc by ground and pound

http://www.mmashare.com/brock-lesnar-vs-frank-mir-2---fight-vid-ufc-100-t7033.html

Watch and learn....

Brock = Herc and Mir = KK.

Nuff said....

Originally posted by Enyalus
He's been weak and infected for like, half of his post-crisis life.

i know. and he still owned equus. anyway, i don't see what herc can bring to the table that val can't counter.

Equus isn't that impressive, IMO. Okay, so he cut Superman, because his claws are made of an archangel's wings. Okay. Superman was careless and used to be invulnerable. Val, nor any solid MAer, doesn't take those chances.

Somebody like Batman or Shiva has a good shot against Equus, IMO. And Herc still wins here.

how does he win against a full healthy val armorr who is TRAINED to get out of meta human attacks?

Hercules isn't some poor untrained schmuck metahuman. He's one of the strongest beings on Marvel Earth, who happens to be better H2H than Thor and has even invented his own martial arts styles.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Hercules isn't some poor untrained schmuck metahuman. He's one of the strongest beings on Marvel Earth, who happens to be better H2H than Thor and has even invented his own martial arts styles.

that doesn't say anything. val regularly spars with beings STRONGER than Herc himself and has mastered EVERY MA in the known universe. again, what is herc going to do that Val hasn't seen before?

He's mastered every MA in the galaxy. And whether that's 'current galaxy' or 'every martial art in the history of the galaxy', I have no idea. But suffice to say that Herc's Pankratian wrestling style wouldn't be be something Val sees every day.

Also, I don't think current Mon-El is stronger than Herc, if that's who you're referring to.

Originally posted by Enyalus
He's mastered every MA in the galaxy. And whether that's 'current galaxy' or 'every martial art in the history of the galaxy', I have no idea. But suffice to say that Herc's Pankratian wrestling style wouldn't be be something Val sees every day.

Also, I don't think current Mon-El is stronger than Herc, if that's who you're referring to.

val has pretty much stated he's master every known martial art in the universe. he travels from galaxy to galaxy training constantly. Pankratian wrestling style? Val has put superboy in a grapling lock that was able to hold superboy for sometime AND he was able to hold Timber Wolf in a Judo hold and knock him down WITHOUT going all out. this is the same Timber Wolf who can take Silver Age Kryptonian blows without getting knocked down.

Is post crisis val capable of the same things he was during the precrisis era?

Originally posted by Naija boy
Is post crisis val capable of the same things he was during the precrisis era?

in some respects, zero hour is better. he has better sensory feats like reading movements and detecting heartbeats MILES away. he can also sense weak points in objects like Karnak. 3boot val isn't as formidable, mainly because he doesn't have many issues, but he has sparred with Ultra Boy, knocked Colossal Boy out with one blow and sent him flying out of a building, shattered his fists against an adaptoid alien who gave the LOSH fits, and can also sense weak points in objects.

Zero Hour = almost as good as PC.
3boot = top tier MA or slightly above.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
val has pretty much stated he's master every known martial art in the universe.
It's galaxy, when I've seen it written. Maybe some writers switch it back and forth though.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Val has put superboy in a grapling lock that was able to hold superboy for sometime
Are we citing KK #12 again?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
in some respects, zero hour is better. he has better sensory feats like reading movements and detecting heartbeats MILES away. he can also sense weak points in objects like Karnak. 3boot val isn't as formidable, mainly because he doesn't have many issues, but he has sparred with Ultra Boy, knocked Colossal Boy out with one blow and sent him flying out of a building, shattered his fists against an adaptoid alien who gave the LOSH fits, and can also sense weak points in objects.

Zero Hour = almost as good as PC.
3boot = top tier MA or slightly above.

K. Which karate kid is being used here?

Originally posted by Enyalus

It's galaxy, when I've seen it written. Maybe some writers switch it back and forth though.


Are we citing KK #12 again?

no, superboy & LOSH issue. Superboy wasn't holding back because he was mind controlled by Mordru.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/SuperboytheLegionofSuperheroes245-1.jpg

Ah, well I was close. It's in the footnote, lol.

Anywho, yeah...PC Era. Stick to Post-Crisis feats.

@ Naija's question as to which we're using...I would say obviously Post-Crisis, and would lean towards Current. However, a lot of his appearances in recent years have him hampered with that techno virus, and KMC rules say everyone operates at full capacity. So my own take would be, anything Post-Crisis where Val isn't ill is fair game for someone who wants to defend him. shrug Just makes sense to me that way.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Ah, well I was close. It's in the footnote, lol.

Anywho, yeah...PC Era. Stick to Post-Crisis feats.

@ Naija's question as to which we're using...I would say obviously Post-Crisis, and would lean towards Current. However, a lot of his appearances in recent years have him hampered with that techno virus, and KMC rules say everyone operates at full capacity. So my own take would be, anything Post-Crisis where Val isn't ill is fair game for someone who wants to defend him. shrug Just makes sense to me that way.

But the post crisis val we're using (around supergirl issues) doesn't have any feats. Or that many, mainly because Johns brought the Classic legion back. The only feats we have of THAT Val is besting Batman (while in a coma) and taking apart Equus. That's all I remember.

btw, that was a pretty impressive feat in itself. val came right out of a coma and thought he was trident, not really focused at all. And he STILL gave Batman fits. the top MA in any comic universe. or one of the best.

Yeah. Giving Batman a hernia with a pressure point strike faster than he could see was sweet as hell.

But Amazonian spears and knives have shattered against Hercules' chest before, so effective pressure point strikes are going to be a bit more difficult for Val to utilize.

Also....don't reply to this. I'm going to bed. And if you do, I'll feel compelled to sit up and respond because I lack impulse control.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Yeah. Giving Batman a hernia with a pressure point strike faster than he could see was sweet as hell.

But Amazonian spears and knives have shattered against Hercules' chest before, so effective pressure point strikes are going to be a bit more difficult for Val to utilize.

Also....don't reply to this. I'm going to bed. And if you do, I'll feel compelled to sit up and respond because I lack impulse control.

what's cooler is that val managed to strip bruce's utility belt. i haven't seen that one before!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Gd8NBIma-zo/RyN9Cm-8iiI/AAAAAAAABSM/v4RhvUszLuo/s320/valArmorrVsBatman.GIF

Originally posted by Naija boy
K. Which karate kid is being used here?

Unless its stated by OP, its current by default rules.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Yeah. Giving Batman a hernia with a pressure point strike faster than he could see was sweet as hell.

But Amazonian spears and knives have shattered against Hercules' chest before, so effective pressure point strikes are going to be a bit more difficult for Val to utilize.

Also....don't reply to this. I'm going to bed. And if you do, I'll feel compelled to sit up and respond because I lack impulse control. He didn't actually give Batman a hernia.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Unless its stated by OP, its current by default rules.


well, then there are 2 CURRENT vals.

zero hour (legion of 3 worlds)
and 3boot.

1 can take herc down and the other cannot, IMO.