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1. sabers
2. force
3. all out

I see Yoda beating Mace after a very long fight and then helping Anakin unless he has already beaten Obi-Wan.

Probably 1

Yoda>Windu

Anakin>Obi Wan

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yoda>Windu

Anakin>Obi Wan

Yoda>Mace>>Anakin=Kenobi

12>3

12 = 4*3 > 3*3 < 10+2 = 12

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
12>3

This one's hard to gauge. Many of the key techniques we know of each of these characters relies on emotional and situations which just aren't present in this hypothesis. If they're all Light Sided, Mace's Vaapad loses it's edge, and Anakin's increasing power isn't what it was during his Dark-tapping and Dark-immersion in the Dooku and Kenobi duels, respectively.

I'll give it to Team 1 though. Yoda can solo either Mace or Kenobi one-on-one, and Anakin can, at least, withstand a fight against Kenobi for a long time and Mace for a shorter period.

My vision: Anakin and Kenobi naturally target one another based on the hope of each's familiarity with the other being the key to victory, and Mace and Yoda naturally target each other due to the recognition that they're the two most powerful here, and thus each is the greater threat to the other.-----Anakin and Kenobi stalemate (though Light Side Anakin having the edge I feel), Yoda defeats Mace after a lengthy and arduous duel and helping Anakin take down Kenobi.

Alternatively, IF Mace can withstand Yoda long enough, he may able to wait out Yoda's Ataru immersion and finish him off when fatigue sets in.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
This one's hard to gauge. Many of the key techniques we know of each of these characters relies on emotional and situations which just aren't present in this hypothesis. If they're all Light Sided, Mace's Vaapad loses it's edge, and Anakin's increasing power isn't what it was during his Dark-tapping and Dark-immersion in the Dooku and Kenobi duels, respectively.

I'll give it to Team 1 though. Yoda can solo either Mace or Kenobi one-on-one, and Anakin can, at least, withstand a fight against Kenobi for a long time and Mace for a shorter period.

My vision: Anakin and Kenobi naturally target one another based on the hope of each's familiarity with the other being the key to victory, and Mace and Yoda naturally target each other due to the recognition that they're the two most powerful here, and thus each is the greater threat to the other.-----Anakin and Kenobi stalemate (though Light Side Anakin having the edge I feel), Yoda defeats Mace after a lengthy and arduous duel and helping Anakin take down Kenobi.

Alternatively, IF Mace can withstand Yoda long enough, he may able to wait out Yoda's Ataru immersion and finish him off when fatigue sets in.

While I agree with almost all of this, you think that Mace has more force reserves than Yoda?

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
While I agree with almost all of this, you think that Mace has more force reserves than Yoda? Yoda's size and advanced does work against him. It's why he utilizes Ataru when fighting opponents of Dooku's and Palpatine's caliber. Following the duel in the Senate chamber, people always wondered why Yoda didn't just get back up and keep fighting. His reserves were running low after prolonged use of Force-enhanced physical feats. While I feel that Palpatine gave Yoda a tougher run than Mace could, I think Mace possess the ability to survive Yoda's attack long enough for him to tire out. THough not enough to throw the match in Mace's favour.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
While I agree with almost all of this, you think that Mace has more force reserves than Yoda? Yes. I think it's fair to assume Yoda was slightly winded after his duel with Tyranus on Geonosis. Mace on the other hand isn't borrowing energy from the Force to sustain his combat style.

I GREE WITH LUCIEN

Wait...

If Yoda faces Obi Wan and Anakin faces Mace, then team 2 has a good chance of winning. Obi Wan with his soresu could probably hold off Yoda for at least a few minutes, and Mace Windu could defeat Anakin much quicker due to Anakin's less defensive nature and especially if he could anger Anakin and make him use the DS, which would bring Vapaad into play.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Wait...

If Yoda faces Obi Wan and Anakin faces Mace, then team 2 has a good chance of winning. Obi Wan with his soresu could probably hold off Yoda for at least a few minutes, and Mace Windu could defeat Anakin much quicker due to Anakin's less defensive nature and especially if he could anger Anakin and make him use the DS, which would bring Vapaad into play. Yes, but I do doubt the characters' choice of opponents in this one. It just doesn't feel likely that Kenobi and Yoda would go for each other first and not for Anakin and Mace, respectively.

But he does hold a valid point. If Kenobi could indefinately hold Anakin for 7 minutes or so in ROTS I see no reason why he could last 2 minutes tops vs Yoda. In that time Anakin would be dead.

Perhaps. But Yoda's highly acrobatic Ataru doesn't fight like Anakin's Shien. And remember, Kenobi lasted as long as he did against Anakin due mainly to his intimate knowledge of how Anakin fought, having spent years at his side in battle. The same can't be said for his relationship with Yoda.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Perhaps. But Yoda's highly acrobatic Ataru doesn't fight like Anakin's Shien. And remember, Kenobi lasted as long as he did against Anakin due mainly to his intimate knowledge of how Anakin fought, having spent years at his side in battle. The same can't be said for his relationship with Yoda.
Though that said Ataru was his first style and Qui Gon was also a practioner. Although I do agree that he won't hold Yoda of, that, long.

Obi-Wan style is Soresu, right? Well, that is a defensive form, and he has mastered a few more, Anakin would just fight him like on Mustafar. Mace would stand no chance against the 900 year old Grand Master of the Jedi ORder due to the fact that Yoda is the only one that can cathc force lightning on his hands, AND he would jump over him and stab Mace in the back, then Obi-Wan is screwed.

Lucien, this one's yours.

Originally posted by Incanus
Obi-Wan style is Soresu, right? Well, that is a defensive form, and he has mastered a few more, Anakin would just fight him like on Mustafar. Mace would stand no chance against the 900 year old Grand Master of the Jedi ORder due to the fact that Yoda is the only one that can cathc force lightning on his hands, AND he would jump over him and stab Mace in the back, then Obi-Wan is screwed. Why will Anakin and Obi-Wan fight here like they did on Mustafar? This isn't Vader, this is Anakin---Light side Anakin. There is no emotional conflict here, no Dark side in him, no hatred for Kenobi. Anakin was more powerful on Mustafar than he ever had been, albeit in a distorted, crazed way. He's down a notch in brute force and raw strength, giving Obi-Wan more time and Anakin a clearer head to defeat him.

As for Mace "not standing a chance" against Yoda; he doesn't, ultimately. If the setting is fair with no handicaps, then Mace faces defeat the majority of times. However, he won't simply be biting dust just because it's Yoda. Mace took on and outmatched in sabers, Palpatine, and he's apparently above Dooku (I think, if not then he's on par) who you should remember survived just such an encounter with Yoda.

And you should avoid blanket statements that are not supported by anything or prove no point. Yoda catching Force Lightning does not mean that Mace can not. It is also irrelevant here as Jedi Master Mace Windu does not employ use of Force Lightning, the most notorious of all Dark Side attacks.


Originally posted by Incanus
AND he would jump over him and stab Mace in the back, then Obi-Wan is screwed.This is something we don't do. We don't claim a very specific and very general maneuver will occur when there is no basis for it, like your example here.

Yoda will not be wiping the floor with Mace. But he should win.

Well, he probably would EVENTUALLY end up stabbing him in the back, dude. And even with Anakin not being a psychopath, it would still be like (a slightly relative term along with SIMILAR.) because of their particular styles. And im not sure if Mace can do that, but i think wookieepedia said it was unique to Yoda.....

Rahm Kota can do it, so no, it's not unique to Yoda.

Oh, I havnt read Kota page so ok if he can do it he can do it. Its not unique to Yoda then.

Why would Yoda being able to handle Force lightning be a factor in a duel against Mace, anyway?

I dont know. Maybe Mace turns to the dark side? (unlikely but it is a possiblility for all jedi as you know.) i mean, why else would he fight Yoda? Holy **** that would suck to fight a dark side Mace.........

what?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
There is no emotional conflict here, no Dark side in him, no hatred for Kenobi.

Then why did you say before that they would be inclined to target eachother? They'd be reluctant to fight eachother, if anything.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Then why did you say before that they would be inclined to target eachother? They'd be reluctant to fight eachother, if anything. Amen.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Then why did you say before that they would be inclined to target eachother? They'd be reluctant to fight eachother, if anything. If this a vs. match then they kind of have to, otherwise we're all gonna look really silly.

I said they'd be inclined to one another due to their familiarity with each other. If these two (for some magical reason we're not at liberty to concoct) were to be fighting each other as Light siders, then due to their extensive experience with one another's fighting styles and knowledge of each's mentality, it only makes sense that they go for one another. I know I'd rather take on my friend and mentor/student whose quirks, mannerisms, powers, and fighting skills/abilities I know intimately than someone who is of greater caliber than either of us.


But hey, if everyone switches opponents: Kenobi attacks Yoda and dies horribly and quickly, and Yoda rushes over to help Anakin take down Mace. But that's the boring choice. Where's the debate in that?

can't Kenobi hold off against yoda with his soresu form and some of his knowledge in ataru... and his knowledge of the other forms? Mace could take down anakin and then mace and kenobi could take a go at yoda.

...I think Mace and Obi-Wan would take a go at whatever works - not just because obi-wan knows anakin better or mace and yoda are the strongest in the order or something like that.
admittedly though, ^ that sounds like what they would do - but they could also try something else...

hmm, i don't know... interesting. I'm following this thread to see what happens.

I frankly highly doubt that Obi-Wan, even with his Soresu, is going to be able to fend off Yoda long enough for Mace to kill Anakin. There's not even Dark Side Anakin for Vapaad to have fun with.

YEah, Yoda would kill Obi-Wan, as Yoda is Dookus superior, and Dooku is Obi-Wans superior. my source is obviously episode 2 where Dooku runs from Yoda.

That's A>B>C logic done right. Sources plus common sense=Win.

=-) i like smilies.

If mace can hold out long enough for kenobi to kill anakin then mace and kenobi can team up against yoda and over power him. The only problem is if mace can hold off yoda long enough.

Yes, i would say that is the full matter of this issue at the moment. I think Obi-Wanwould still take Anakin down however, due to his knowledge of multiple forms and his greater command of the force. Sure, Anakin is more powerful in the force, but Kenobi is more knowledgeable, right?

This is a scenario where power and skill isn't everything. It can be argued that Obi Wan can hold off Yoda longer than Anakin can hold off Mace thanks to the benefit of soresu coupled with the attack power of vapaad. Teamwork ftw!

What benefit would Soresu provide to Mace other than a master of defence coupled witha master of attack?

well other than that, about nothing.

Then Obi-Wans Soresu is only good for him, as Vapaad will allow Mace to either win quickly, or holdd out long enough for he other to stab his oppnent in the back, as he could be either pure offense and keep them of defence, and in his fight against Palpatine, he showed a good defence with it.

I agree.

hm. I think Obi-Wan would take Anakin down - just because he has the experience to do so...

I'm basing this on pure speculation.

definatly, he knows how anakin fights and kenobi has more knowledge of the force. Plus kenobi already beat anakin in ROTS.

Originally posted by bayhunter12
definatly, he knows how anakin fights and kenobi has more knowledge of the force. Plus kenobi already beat anakin in ROTS.

Technically thats vader and is a fight in a certain scenario that doesn't really hold much weight as to what would happen here.

But I do agree that Obi>anakin.

So then, how tired would Kenobi be? Would he feel bad? i think we have to take that into account when we say that he kills Anakin and then fight Yoda with Mace. Mace would be pretty tired by then, and Kenobi....... well, thats part of the question i just posed...........

you must also consider how tired yoda would be.

Not sure how tired Yoda would be, as he has his mastery of the force to ward off fatigue.... But so do Mace, and Kenobi......... I think some said Ataru can help him ward off fatigue to......... Can some1 plz verify the force warding off fatigue thing, cant remember where i saw that........

Originally posted by Incanus
Not sure how tired Yoda would be, as he has his mastery of the force to ward off fatigue.... But so do Mace, and Kenobi......... I think some said Ataru can help him ward off fatigue to......... Can some1 plz verify the force warding off fatigue thing, cant remember where i saw that........ Anakin used the Force to sustain himself for some time in the RotS novel. He wasn't eating or sleeping and was still able to continue.


Yoda's Ataru will drain him of it's a long fight, which I can see one with Mace being.

So, i highly doubt this, but is there a chance Mace would be able to keep Yoda occupied for SO long, that Yoda can not perform anything but the most basic Ataru moves, because of how fatigued he is? Mace, how tired would he be from using Vapaad for so long?

Vaapad as far as I know isn't tiring in the sense that Ataru is for Yoda. 50% of Vaapad's usefulness is nullified here, as every one involved here is a Light Sider.

And I think Mace can survive Yoda long enough to bring down his fatigue bar. Maybe not all the way ala Palatine, but a grand 'ol chunk.

Yeah, that sounds right, the two most powerful(?) in the order having a very long lightsaber duel.......... I can understand that Now, we just have to add Kenobi to the mix, and then see what happens. If Yoda isnt very tired, Kenobi could just provide support for Mace, because of the defensive nature of Soresu. Then they would have their bases covered. If Yoda is very tired, and Mace and Kenobi are not as tire, then they win. But if Kenobi kills Anakin very fast (highly doubted also) then Yoda would still be good and could possibly kill him. Still, it would be close.

Both duels would be quite long, and would likely move away from each other. Even as a Light Sider, Anakin has the edge in strength and raw power. His exact mentality here is purely subjective, as this scenario delves beyond the realms of possibilityb for their characters.

I foresee Yoda killing Mace before Anakin breaks Obi-Wan's defences and hopping over to lend a hand.

Well, I am more of unsure, because of the fact i have no clue as to Yodas combat prowess, only having seen movies, and Mace is apparently far better than i knew, but Kenobi and Anakin would have a fight that would push them to the edges of their sanity. They would be fighting each other as light siders, right, well they were like brothers according to Kenobi, and honestly, i think he was holding back a bit on Mustafar, as he was trying to turn Anakin back the whole time. They may wonder why we made them fight and then get mad at us =-p. They would at least wonder why they have to do this, and then would hold back, as i see it. As far as Yoda and Mace, how many flaws are in Ataru? Mace would see them all according to what i read about Shatterpoint......

Originally posted by Incanus
i think he was holding back a bit on Mustafar, as he was trying to turn Anakin back the whole time. Uh... what?

Well, he was trying to see if he could turn Anakin back to the light side. I think, so can some1 verify? Pretty sure he was....... I think he only realized Anakin couldnt be saved when he jumped.

Originally posted by Incanus
Well, he was trying to see if he could turn Anakin back to the light side. I think, so can some1 verify? Pretty sure he was....... I think he only realized Anakin couldnt be saved when he jumped.
Nope.
"
Yoda had said it, flat-out: Allow such attachments to pass out of one's life, a Jedi must, but Obi-Wan had never let himself understand. He had argued for Anakin, made excuses, covered for him again and again and again; all the while this attachment he denied even feeling had blinded him to the dark path his best friend walked.

Obi-Wan knew there was, in the end, only one answer for attachment...

He let it go."

Ok, i was wrong. Still, I think he would be a little griefed over killing him, you can see it in his face when he take Anakins saber. Still, we need to determine their fight before we can do Mace and Yoda's, as they would duel each other all night if we said they did. hey dont, however. Maybe. Doubt it.

Grieved, yeah. Holding back, no.

Actually, in the novel, he was holding back. There was a bit where he could have easily killed Anakin, but he hesitated, prompting Anakin to sneer, 'mercy is your weakness', and then Obi punches him in the face and says,'Your overconfidence is yours'. ROTS novel= badass.

The duel on Mustafar was beautifully choreographed, but that brawl scene should've been brutal. Like, I want blood.

The OT was good with that.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Actually, in the novel, he was holding back. There was a bit where he could have easily killed Anakin, but he hesitated, prompting Anakin to sneer, 'mercy is your weakness', and then Obi punches him in the face and says,'Your overconfidence is yours'. ROTS novel= badass.

need. to. read. the. novel.

Originally posted by Eminence
The duel on Mustafar was beautifully choreographed, but that brawl scene should've been brutal. Like, I want blood.

The OT was good with that. I don't recall seeing blood in the OT...

Wolverine2179
I don't recall seeing blood in the OT... Luke gets his face ripped open by the wampa in ESB, and later gets pulped some more by Vader. I'm not talking Gears of War levels of blood and gore here, mind you, but the OT has people getting visibly cut and battered.

Oh yea that.. I don't recall the PT having anything close to that. Well maybe anakin when he got burned.

But i personally think some gore would fit well in the SWU along with swearing but i dunno what others would think of that.

Wait, i need to reread that novel. I dont remember anything about it, and i read it about 4 years ago. That must be where i got the thought of Kenboi holding back.

I read parts of the novel and he didn't seem to be holding back - although, one might mistake the conflict in obi-wan for holding back.

in this fight - does Obi-Wan HAVE to KILL Anakin, or just detain/defeat him, and not necessarily kill Anakin?

Well, it would be more of the goal of a jedi to capture a sith, turn him.her, then get information on the sith. Bastila is the one who said this is KOTOR, it is more of wisdom or some other peice of jedi crap but: "What better thing is there to turn an enemy to your cause? To use his own knowledge against him?"

Unless of course you could kill the enemy outright, thereby rendering any knowledge on how to beat them, moot. Bastila's also a chick, and chick's are always thinking with their heart and never their biceps.

Lol, yeahm in this fight, that is pretty much irrelevant, asa he knows alot about the jedi.

er, if Obi-Wan kills Anakin, then, I dunno, maybe the conflict, grief, whatever, etc. COULD distract obi-wan. but if they fight just for the sake of fighting, and obi-wan just has to detain anakin, he'd totally defeat/detain him.

anyway, obi-wan vs. Anakin aside (because I think we have established that Obi-Wan>Anakin), would Mace hold off against Yoda long enough for Obi-Wan to be able to help him afterwards?

Originally posted by Jaeh.is.Awesome
I think we have established that Obi-Wan>Anakin We have?

...I thought we did. haven't we?

if not, then, my bad.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
I don't recall seeing blood in the OT...
http://www.runleiarun.com/choppedoffhands/pondababa.jpg

I'd say they're about dead even. Anakin has more raw power and Kenobi has a clear head and has his unrivaled Soresu mastery.

Originally posted by ares834
http://www.runleiarun.com/choppedoffhands/pondababa.jpg Damn, forgot about that but i thought a lightsaber would burn the flesh and thus there wouldn't be any bleeding?

Nah star wars needs more hardcore gore, more guts and intestines.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
I'd say they're about dead even. Anakin has more raw power and Kenobi has a clear head and has his unrivaled Soresu mastery.

then what now? A draw does not help us in any way.

from a vs. thread standpoint anakin would probably win the majority because he is simply a more skilled duelist. hes ultimately faster stronger and has more stamina.

but from a more logical standpoint obi-wan is smarter and has much more focus and clarity. plus he knows anakin well. so i think tha if he really wanted to win he could totally bait anakin into doing something the majority of the time.

That really depends, anakin in the final duel was enraged and emotional and when you get emotional you can't fight as well as you can when your not.

The dark side ending of the ROTS game(though non "canon" shows anakin slaughtering obi wan.

dark side ending - of course obi-wan dies.

I think Obi-Wan takes this one. I think that raw potential<experience and skill. and he knows anakin well to know his strengths and weaknesses - obi-wan *did* train anakin, so...


unless anakin brings something new to the table, I think Obi-wan takes it.

What is this?

There's no point in trying to discuss it. Canon statements, quotes, and events are all inadmissible because Leland Chee has made it explicitly clear that there are no "power charts" at LFL; no character is established to be more powerful than another character.

...

Hell, it just might be plausible that they're all equal!

It's brilliant.

Chee's plan from the beginning; he wants to promote equality in Star Wars! What better place to demonstrate the theme of justice? In such a diverse world with many species and races, he's using the power charts line as a metaphor for the real world.

There is no such thing as "power." We all have power!

Equality!

Yay!

Edit: Troll.

Ban the Versus Forums of Star Wars!!!

Originally posted by Advent
Edit: Troll.

Hoebag!

Or depending on the spelling variation: hobag!

Anyways, it is the truth. Since apparently EU materials are questionable, there's no point in discussing it.

Congratulations, Advent, you've broken the Versus forum.



Edit: And how is promoting equality now trolling?

Jim Crowe rules the land.

...

Originally posted by Gideon
There's no point in trying to discuss it. Canon statements, quotes, and events are all inadmissible because Leland Chee has made it explicitly clear that there are no "power charts" at LFL; no character is established to be more powerful than another character.


That's actually the only reason to "discuss" anything here....

what were we originally talking about again?

Somehthing about Mace and Obi-Wan Kenobi killing Yoda and Anakin...... or Kenobi killing Anakin and Yoda and Mace fighting to a standstill.......

Jaeh.is.Awesome
what were we originally talking about again? How to fit cucumbers into Gideon's re mou fruit basket.

Originally posted by Eminence
How to fit cucumbers into Gideon's re mou fruit basket.



swell.

Originally posted by Jaeh.is.Awesome
swell.

That kid says the darnest things, doesn't he.

Originally posted by Eminence
How to fit cucumbers into Gideon's re mou fruit basket.

Ye know since gideon "retired" from KMC, i can no longer keep my head in his ass to please him, i think its time i start riding your nuts even harder than before and worship the ultimate nutsack FauNuts.

Muahahaha

Can I give you all hugs?

I'll shove these guys off my nuts for a couple seconds, hold on.

Wolverine... I am pleased. Konvurt ftw.

Are you always on here?

Are you always on here?

I have to get up at 4:45 to drop my mom off at work. Then I run or go to the gym, then I'm tired, so I sit down and pop on the webz and trollpost. I'm also on call four days a week for a job that rarely actually needs me, so I have nine hours blocked out.

Good? Good. Now stfu.

Every single time I wander into a big thread, it is off topic and is being caused by the same people over and over again...

And this battle is too close to call.

Originally posted by Eminence
Are you always on here?

I have to get up at 4:45 to drop my mom off at work. Then I run or go to the gym, then I'm tired, so I sit down and pop on the webz and trollpost. I'm also on call four days a week for a job that rarely actually needs me, so I have nine hours blocked out.

Good? Good. Now stfu.

Yes, why yes I am.

*Insert random joke about you going to the gym.*

Originally posted by Eminence
Are you always on here?

I have to get up at 4:45 to drop my mom off at work. Then I run or go to the gym, then I'm tired, so I sit down and pop on the webz and trollpost. I'm also on call four days a week for a job that rarely actually needs me, so I have nine hours blocked out.

Good? Good. Now stfu. I have a suspicion that you're not as fat as the Divine One Gideon makes you out to be. Maybe not as thin as me or as muscular as Wolvie... but not Shamu, no.

...so. are we ever gonna go back to topic?

no

...great.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
no

Lord Lucien
I have a suspicion that you're not as fat as the Divine One Gideon makes you out to be. Maybe not as thin as me or as muscular as Wolvie... but not Shamu, no.You are sexy.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
no

Originally posted by Eminence
You are sexy. 2nd time today I've been called sexy by you. Once more makes it canon.