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Thor hammer is broken in this fight, he retains his power.

Who win?

Team 2 6/10

Why is that?

Team 2.

Originally posted by Raoul
Team 2.

Why

Thor and beta ray bill is 2 of the most powerful on the field, Orion=Supes. So why does team to get the edge?

Originally posted by carver9
Why

i think they're just that bit better. not by a whole lot, but enough to take the wins.

If norrin went up against Thor, things might shift, but seeing as he only as a 1/3 chance if they pair off, those aren't high enough odds for me.

Thor vs Surfer - 5/10
Thor vs Stardust 6/10
Thor vs Superman 5/10

BRB vs Surfer - 4/10
BRB vs Stardust - 5/10
BRB vs Superman - 4/10

Orion vs Surfer - 5/10
Orion vs Stardust 4/10
Orion vs Superman 4/10

I think Orion can at least draw even with Stardust. You can't give Thor a majority over Stardust and then say Orion only wins 4/10.

the problem for team 1 is the damn speed edge. Orion is the only one who can stop a blitz.

Team 2.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I think Orion can at least draw even with Stardust. You can't give Thor a majority over Stardust and then say Orion only wins 4/10.

the problem for team 1 is the damn speed edge. Orion is the only one who can stop a blitz.

Can and did.

Read up on Thor/BRB, son.

I know Bill at least stalemated Stardust.

And you still haven't proved that Thor or Bill can stop a true blitz.

T2 6/10

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I know Bill at least stalemated Stardust.

And you still haven't proved that Thor or Bill can stop a true blitz.

That's the full extent of your BRB knowledge? Impressive! It's been proved time and time again. In fact, I dare say Thor's speed feats at least matches the ones we see Superman bring. I'll do the list.

- Catching bullets
- Repairing things fast
- Hitting several times in a blur.

All of whom ROGUE complete with ridiculous ease during Claremont's run on x-men. This does not make someone capable of blitzing Thor.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
That's the full extent of your BRB knowledge? Impressive! It's been proved time and time again. In fact, I dare say Thor's speed feats at least matches the ones we see Superman bring. I'll do the list.

- Catching bullets
- Repairing things fast
- Hitting several times in a blur.

All of whom ROGUE complete with ridiculous ease during Claremont's run on x-men. This does not make someone capable of blitzing Thor.

Excuse me? That's your speed feats? haermm NONE OF THAT compares to Supes, Orion or even Surfer's speed feats.

You better have something more or just admit Thor and BRB are slugs.

Also: Rogue? Seriously? You and I both know she's nowhere near fast enough to face high end speedsters.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Thor vs Surfer - 5/10
Thor vs Stardust 6/10
Thor vs Superman 5/10

BRB vs Surfer - 4/10
BRB vs Stardust - 5/10
BRB vs Superman - 4/10

Orion vs Surfer - 5/10
Orion vs Stardust 4/10
Orion vs Superman 4/10

I disagree

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Excuse me? That's your speed feats? haermm NONE OF THAT compares to Supes, Orion or even Surfer's speed feats.

You better have something more or just admit Thor and BRB are slugs.

Also: Rogue? Seriously? You and I both know she's nowhere near fast enough to face high end speedsters.

Seriously, you fail at reading comprehension. I was mocking the list of Superman's speed feats, since those are the recurring feats which people use to back up his speed.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Excuse me? That's your speed feats? haermm NONE OF THAT compares to Supes, Orion or even Surfer's speed feats.
i like the "or even surfer's feats" part, it almost sounds like his are the easiest to replicate out of the bunch listed.

Nah. just that Surfer hardly ever uses his speed in combat. And Superman's speed feats are just plain better than Thor and BRB's combined. Stop hatin'.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Nah. just that Surfer hardly ever uses his speed in combat. And Superman's speed feats are just plain better than Thor and BRB's combined. Stop hatin'.

READ my posts stupid.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Nah. just that Surfer hardly ever uses his speed in combat. And Superman's speed feats are just plain better than Thor and BRB's combined. Stop hatin'.

thats still not saying that they cant keep up with him because honestly, they can.

I've been awake since 4:30am watching stage 16 of the 2009 Tour De France. I am very tired and about to sleep for a few hours. I only got about 2-3 hours sleep.

So please, SHUT THE **** UP. uhuh

G'night.

say what you will about his application of it, but his top speed away from an atmosphere > the other characters you listed.

like it or not he is the fastest and if he doesn't want to be caught/hit, he won't.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/Rewmac/Scans/Superman/Supermanv2172pg13.jpg

Some of Superman's super impressive stuff. Ramming a fist up the ass of a probe and flying around him. Notice how awesomely awesome his super speed his. It's freakin' super, he's flying around and punching the guy! and the guy like....is just standing there!! And it looks identical to the time when Wolverine punched Domina 20 times before she could do anything! Awesome, right?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I've been awake since 4:30am watching stage 16 of the 2009 Tour De France. I am very tired and about to sleep for a few hours. I only got about 2-3 hours sleep.

So please, SHUT THE **** UP. uhuh

G'night.

facepalm

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
That's the full extent of your BRB knowledge? Impressive! It's been proved time and time again. In fact, I dare say Thor's speed feats at least matches the ones we see Superman bring. I'll do the list.

- Catching bullets
- Repairing things fast
- Hitting several times in a blur.

All of whom ROGUE complete with ridiculous ease during Claremont's run on x-men. This does not make someone capable of blitzing Thor.

Not equal to blitzing the omega beams, going fast enough to be invisible and creating air vacuums via said speed against the Elite. Not to mention totally owning his peers in Mongul and Doomsday.

It's fair to say Superman is on another tier with respect to combat speed.

Originally posted by Allankles
Not equal to blitzing the omega beams, going invisible and creating air vacuums against the Elite. Not to mention totally owning his peers in Mongul and Doomsday with speed.

It's fair to say Superman is on another tier with respect to combat speed.

Let's see.

- Dodging beams fast, really cool. Not that impressive though, especially since ligthspeed seems to be their limit.

- That's great, for people who cannot perceive people going at superspeed.

- Okay....I guess that's not bad?

- Owning Mongul, those are my favourite. In one of them Superman gets off like 3 or 4 heatvision/punches or icebreath/kicks by the time Mongul has one. In the other he parries 4 of Mongul's punches, WHICH COMPLETELY WEARS OUT MONGUL. How are these impressive? Heat and cold barely affect Thor, he's not going to fight Superman barehanded and Mongul BARELY HAS ANY SPEED FEATS!

- Doomsday, yes. This is a good fight. He flies around doomsday and hits him a couple of times, before vibrating through his punches/flame breath. Just a couple of things though. Mjolnir will hit people even when they're intangible! And a fight with Doomsday does not in any way indicate superiority over Thor in speed!

Originally posted by carver9
thats still not saying that they cant keep up with him because honestly, they can.

They could to a point but when you can move fast enough to make air vacuums in moments and be invisible, you're in another bracket.

WW is the best gauge. Most feel she's faster than Thor not enough to blitz him but fast enough to land 2 to every 1 he lands. Superman has put to shame the speed of Hermes on at least two occasions, demonstrating he's a fair bit faster than a superhero with a speed god's abilities.

Again, neither BRB or Thor a speedblitzing the Elites or Doomsday.

Originally posted by Allankles
They could to a point but when you can move fast enough to make air vacuums in moments and be invisible, you're in another bracket.

WW is the best gauge. Most feel she's faster than Thor not enough to blitz him but fast enough to land 2 to every 1 he lands. Superman has put to shame the speed of Hermes on at least two occasions, demonstrating he's a fair bit faster than a superhero with a speed god's abilities.

Again, neither BRB or Thor a speedblitzing the Elites or Doomsday.

Funny thing about Hermes, Thor caught him easily when he was trying a sneak attack.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Let's see.

- Dodging beams fast, really cool. Not that impressive though, especially since ligthspeed seems to be their limit.



Instead of referencing wolverine and other totally unrelated people you can examine his entire body of work. Blitzing the omega beams demonstrates how fast he can propel his body since (unlike other energy attacks) they follow their target indefinitely until they land. So it shows that he can propel his body a lot quicker than what Thor and BRB can manage in a CQC situation.

Mongul is no different from Hulk and other top tier strong men who have tagged and fought top tiers across their companies.

The Elite don't have deficiency with speed perception, seeing as Superman wasn't visible. It wasn't that he left after images, he left nothing except an air vacuum from his speed trail which took out the magician through his shields.

IMO Team1 Has the more H2H combat accume imo. WIth the exception of supes. But each guy on team 1 is loves to use their melee combat. Also I think Thor is skyfather level now is that what the OP said? He doesn't have any real featsright unless im mistaken... on which thor this is.

But.. SS and SD are both high level energy users with great exp. And supes is just supes.

Most of the exotic shit SS might do in the fight Thor or BRB can combat and if Orion get shis astro harness can withstand alot.

What I don't like is the fact that I think SS can get defensive while juicing up Supes with plenty of sunligt energy even if he is fly around dodging. That would be a likily lead to victory.

A amped supes would crush Orion is they were even before and imo beat BRB equally but thor would be still tough. regardless I think After a long ****ing fight and Either Thor left standing and maybe SS and/or supes (i can see possible both living till the end) and Thos loses. 5.5 team 2

Originally posted by Allankles
Instead of referencing wolverine and other totally unrelated people you can examine his entire body of work. Blitzing the omega beams demonstrates how fast he can propel his body since (unlike other energy attacks) they follow their target indefinitely until they land. So it shows that he can propel his body a lot quicker than what Thor and BRB can manage in a CQC situation.

Mongul is no different from Hulk and other top tier strong men who have tagged and fought top tiers across their companies.

The Elite don't have deficiency with speed perception, seeing as Superman wasn't visible. It wasn't that he left after images, he left nothing except an air vacuum from his speed trail which took out the magician through his shields.

The omega beams isnt that fast.

Originally posted by Allankles
Instead of referencing wolverine and other totally unrelated people you can examine his entire body of work. Blitzing the omega beams demonstrates how fast he can propel his body since (unlike other energy attacks) they follow their target indefinitely until they land. So it shows that he can propel his body a lot quicker than what Thor and BRB can manage in a CQC situation.

Mongul is no different from Hulk and other top tier strong men who have tagged and fought top tiers across their companies.

The Elite don't have deficiency with speed perception, seeing as Superman wasn't visible. It wasn't that he left after images, he left nothing except an air vacuum from his speed trail which took out the magician through his shields.

- Like I said, around lightspeed. How fast do you think Thor and BRB fly? Supersonic? speed of sound? Speed of turtle? 500 km/hour?

- Exactly, Mongul is no different. His durability is below Thor's, he has less feats, he is weaker and so on. Blitzing him does therefore not make Superman capable of blitzing Thor. Especially when he did not really Blitz Mongul, but parried his attacks.

- Okay, that's great. The elite are not Thor however, not even close. Nor do they have anyone with impressive Superspeed.

You failed to counter everything else.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Funny thing about Hermes, Thor caught him easily when he was trying a sneak attack.

Right, they guy who came barreling in with with a chariot? Not hard to extend out your hand and grab someone by the collar. And Thor is likely not faster either way, that was just timing.

Also no one said Thor doesn't have a measure of superspeed, he just can't propel his body as quickly as Superman. This should be obvious.

Originally posted by Allankles
Right, they guy who came barreling in with with a chariot? Not hard to extend out your hand and grab someone by the collar. And Thor is likely not faster either way, that was just timing.

Also no one said Thor doesn't have a measure of superspeed, he just can't propel his body as quickly as Superman. This should be obvious.

Like I said, how fast do you think Thor moves then?

He didn't just grab him, he countered his speed. Hermes IS the god of speed.

Funny thing, Deathstroke constantly tags Flashes.

Funny thing, Batman caught a speeding Kid Flash.

OMG THEY MATCH SUPERMAN!

Orion solos

Originally posted by carver9
The omega beams isnt that fast.

Imagine Surfer shooting out a beam of the PC at Thor. Lets assume Thor dives out of the way of the oncoming beam. Following me so far? Now imagine if Surfer could bend and twist that beam to make it follow Thor, to ensure it strikes? Never ceasing until it struck him?

Imagine how much movement Thor would have to make to avoid such a beam? He's likely to get tagged after the first evasion, Thor doesn't accelerate his body like Superman.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Like I said, how fast do you think Thor moves then?

He didn't just grab him, he countered his speed. Hermes IS the god of speed.

He didn't counter him with speed. He turned quickly and grabbed him off his chariot, it's not like he was actually matching him.

Originally posted by Allankles
Imagine Surfer shooting out a beam of the PC at Thor. Lets assume Thor dives out of the way of the oncoming beam. Following me so far? Now imagine if Surfer could bend and twist that beam to make it follow Thor, to ensure it strikes? Never ceasing until it struck him?

Imagine how much movement Thor would have to make to avoid such a beam? He's likely to get tagged after the first evasion, Thor doesn't accelerate his body like Superman.

Question.

Why would Thor fly around like an idiot, when he can raise his hammer and have it instantly absorbed into Mjolnir?

Originally posted by Allankles
He didn't counter him with speed. He turned quickly and grabbed him off his chariot, it's not like he was actually matching him.

Thor was flying.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Question.

Why would Thor fly around like an idiot, when he can raise his hammer and have it instantly absorbed into Mjolnir?

You're missing the point, which is that Thor wouldn't be able to dodge such a beam beyond the first evasion, because he doesn't have that kind of acceleration.




Thor was flying.

Yes but it was more about timing and reflexes, no one has denied Thor has a measure of superspeed, but the feat was more about a single reaction. It doesn't put his combat speed on Supes level.

Originally posted by Allankles
Imagine Surfer shooting out a beam of the PC at Thor. Lets assume Thor dives out of the way of the oncoming beam. Following me so far? Now imagine if Surfer could bend and twist that beam to make it follow Thor, to ensure it strikes? Never ceasing until it struck him?

Imagine how much movement Thor would have to make to avoid such a beam? He's likely to get tagged after the first evasion, Thor doesn't accelerate his body like Superman.

But surfer beams is faster than darkseid omega blast. If darkseid blast was so fast batman would move at light speed also since he has dodged them on numerous of occasions.

Now we do have instances of surfer shooting at thor and beta and both of them react so fast that they lift there hammers up to deflect the blast.

Originally posted by Allankles
You're missing the point, which is that Thor wouldn't be able to dodge such a beam beyond the first evasion, because he doesn't have that kind of acceleration.





Yes but it was more about timing and reflexes, no one has denied Thor has a measure of superspeed, but the feat was more about a single reaction. It doesn't put his combat speed on Supes level.

Why doesnt he have that kind of acceleration when he has flown 3 times the speed of light?

Originally posted by Allankles
You're missing the point, which is that Thor wouldn't be able to dodge such a beam beyond the first evasion, because he doesn't have that kind of acceleration.

No, you are clearly missing the point. Thor does not have any feats where he's flying around from beams because he does not need to. This is the same reason why Thor does not have feats where he is flying around someone hitting them. He does not need to and such a style would only hamper him. Superman, who is incredibly limited offensively for a high herald, needs to employ speed and manoeuvring. Thor, whose arsenal stems from the hammer he holds in his hand, does not.

Originally posted by Allankles
Yes but it was more about timing and reflexes, no one has denied Thor has a measure of superspeed, but the feat was more about a single reaction. It doesn't put his combat speed on Supes level.

It's a feat where it takes Thor a split second to get airborne.

How fast do you think he moves in the air. I want a direct answer to this.

There are two or three people in this thread who are bang out of order. if people don't settle down, there'll be warnings handed out.

thanks.

orion has 1 shotted supes
he killed DS
he is the superior here

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Exactly, Mongul is no different. His durability is below Thor's, he has less feats, he is weaker and so on. Blitzing him does therefore not make Superman capable of blitzing Thor. Especially when he did not really Blitz Mongul, but parried his attacks.

Mongul is quite durable or at least has very high damage soak. Regardles, durability is besides the point. Thor doesn't do what Supes did to Mongul there, he doesn't dodge every attack, he doesn't have that kind of speed.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
- Okay, that's great. The elite are not Thor however, not even close. Nor do they have anyone with impressive Superspeed.


The Elite had a meta human rating that rivaled Superman's, if not surpassed them (as one former checkmate member suggested). Considering the amount of damage they put on Supes, I'd say they are a valid measure, they pwned Superman for much of that story.

And as far their speed feats go, the Elite's speed blitzed several villains in the same story. Killing them before they knew what hit them. They also punked Superman, BFR'ing him in one instances before he could react.

Superman just changed gears (quite literally) with regards to combat speed in their last battle. Superman's superiority in the speed department is self evident.

Originally posted by carver9
Why doesnt he have that kind of acceleration when he has flown 3 times the speed of light?

Travel speed? Accelearation deals with how he propels his body in close quarters. You're lying to yourself if you think he can speed blitz the omega beams.

BFR'ing Superman is pretty simple....

There are a couple of things you simply cannot comprehend it seems. You're trying to put Thor in Superman's shoes and making a lot of wild claims, without actually being capable of retorting any of the points I make. I'm not sure if you're cowering away from a challenge or simply trying to be coy, or maybe even purposely misunderstanding what I'm writing here. But I am making arguments for why Thor would be able to counter a blitz. Instead of trying to counter this, you are making arguments for why Thor would not be able to blitz the people Superman did.

Why are you doing this? Do you not understand that Thor has a completely different fighting style? Still you fail to answer how fast you think Thor travels.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
No, you are clearly missing the point. Thor does not have any feats where he's flying around from beams because he does not need to.

Whether he needs to or not is besides the point, he does not possess the same split second acceleration that Superman does.



Originally posted by Kris Blaze
It's a feat where it takes Thor a split second to get airborne.

How fast do you think he moves in the air. I want a direct answer to this.

It only takes a moment for transition between one action and the next, you don't need super speed for that. You also don't have to be able to speedblitz people to react quickly and instinctively to an on rushing chariot.

Superhuman reflexes for certain, but that wasn't what we were arguing.

Address ALL OF THE POINTS in my post at once.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
BFR'ing Superman is pretty simple....

There are a couple of things you simply cannot comprehend it seems. You're trying to put Thor in Superman's shoes and making a lot of wild claims, without actually being capable of retorting any of the points I make. I'm not sure if you're cowering away from a challenge or simply trying to be coy, or maybe even purposely misunderstanding what I'm writing here. But I am making arguments for why Thor would be able to counter a blitz. Instead of trying to counter this, you are making arguments for why Thor would not be able to blitz the people Superman did.

Why are you doing this? Do you not understand that Thor has a completely different fighting style? Still you fail to answer how fast you think Thor travels.

But I've carried my argument through. I asked you to keep in mind Superman's entire body of work. Somehow you have it in your head that grabbing a chariot riding Hermes by the collar is ample evidence that Thor can counter Superman's speed in a CQC scenario.

That wasn't even a cqc scenario, at least not as it pertains to Superman.

Speed can be nullified when used with such simplicity. They are so many angles your argument fails to address with regards to combat speed, I'm facing the difficulty of having too many counter arguments.

Simply put, when Superman's level of speed is used for evasion and combined with his fighting skills and experience the result is tremendously efficient. Again this is in a close quarters scenario. The truth is you've not shown that you can see all the angles. Fighting is all about speed.

Originally posted by Allankles
But I've carried my argument through. I asked you to keep in mind Superman's entire body of work. Somehow you have it in your head that grabbing a chariot riding Hermes by the collar is ample evidence that Thor can counter Superman's speed in a CQC scenario.

That wasn't even a cqc scenario, at least not as it pertains to Superman.

Speed can be nullified when used with such simplicity. They are so many angles your argument fails to address with regards to combat speed, I'm facing the difficulty of having too many counter arguments.

Simply put, when Superman's level of speed is used for evasion and combined with his fighting skills and experience the result is tremendously efficient. Again this is in a close quarters scenario. The truth is you've not shown that you can see all the angles. Fighting is all about speed.

This post reeks of ignorance. In your mind, Superman is fighting a boxer with flight, isn't he?

- Cannot see all angles. Thor's defence is impenetrable, his vortex can contain a big enough explosion to take out 1/5 of a universe. Nothing Superman can do will get through this. Thor's Mjolnir defence is absolute.

- Evasion. You cannot dodge an energy siphon. Sucking the life force, energy, soul out of Superman is something that he cannot dodge. There is no beam to run away from, since it's Superman's essence being PULLED into something.

- Movement. Like I've proven, accelerating quickly is easy for Thor. Mjolnir lets him maintain faster than light speed which he can navigate at. Your entire argument seems to be built around "Superman is a superior hand to hand combatant" and "Thor cannot fly fast!" both are wrong.

- You think that Thor's only incident of Super speed is the Hermes incident? Once again, something that anybody who has read Thor or even looked in his respect thread would realize is a stupid claim.

- "This is in a close quarters scenario" why? Hypnotism, shrinking, BFR, vortex trap and so on. There are tons of different ways Thor could dispatch of Superman that would not involve close combat. All Thor has to do is react to Superman and seeing as he can react to things much faster than the speed of light and has millenia worth of fighting experience, I reckon he'd do just fine.

Once again, how fast do you think Thor flies?

Originally posted by carver9
But surfer beams is faster than darkseid omega blast. If darkseid blast was so fast batman would move at light speed also since he has dodged them on numerous of occasions.

Now we do have instances of surfer shooting at thor and beta and both of them react so fast that they lift there hammers up to deflect the blast.

Since when are the speed of energy beams specified? This is where your arguments hit a brick wall.

And Batman has never dodged any omega beams. The two times Darkseid even thought about shooting beams at Batman he killed him (killed him in Rock of Ages and killed his original body in FC).

The only Batman that has dodged the Omegas is the animated Bruce Timm Batman.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
This post reeks of ignorance. In your mind, Superman is fighting a boxer with flight, isn't he?



Once again, how fast do you think Thor flies?


You seem to have lost all perspective. My entire argument was about Thor's speed and Superman's speed. I already know about Thor's esoteric abilities.

I thought we were on the same page, but it appears we were arguing different points. If Thor requires his shields doesn't that already speak to Superman's speed advantage?

What does Thor's ambiguous flight speed matter now? It doesn't seem to have factored into your last post.

Originally posted by Allankles
Since when are the speed of energy beams specified? This is where your arguments hit a brick wall.

And Batman has never dodged any omega beams. The two times Darkseid even thought about shooting beams at Batman he killed him (killed him in Rock of Ages and killed his original body in FC).

The only Batman that has dodged the Omegas is the animated Bruce Timm Batman.

Some beams moves slower than others and darkseid beams isnt that fast.

Based on what exactly? Seeing has he's had no problem tagging the people he wishes to tag.

Originally posted by Allankles
Based on what exactly? Seeing has he's had no problem tagging the people he wishes to tag.

basing it off of all the people that deflected his beams with ease.

Originally posted by Allankles
You seem to have lost all perspective. My entire argument was about Thor's speed and Superman's speed. I already know about Thor's esoteric abilities.

I thought we were on the same page, but it appears we were arguing different points. If Thor requires his shields doesn't that already speak to Superman's speed advantage?

What does Thor's ambiguous flight speed matter now? It doesn't seem to have factored into your last post.

Someone seem to have poured all their stat points in dodging. Thor isn't as fast as Superman. He's just more than fast enough to keep up with him.

Don't get upset because Superman's sole argument on this forum for keeping up with heralds is "ZOMFG SPEED" where as the rest seem to have a multitude of different ways to approach a fight.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Someone seem to have poured all their stat points in dodging. Thor isn't as fast as Superman. He's just more than fast enough to keep up with him.

Don't get upset because Superman's sole argument on this forum for keeping up with heralds is "ZOMFG SPEED" where as the rest seem to have a multitude of different ways to approach a fight.

True statement.

Originally posted by carver9
basing it off of all the people that deflected his beams with ease.

Right! So no valid argument.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Someone seem to have poured all their stat points in dodging. Thor isn't as fast as Superman. He's just more than fast enough to keep up with him.

You're welcome to believe that. I don't think he is, because of not only the speed but the precision and skill Superman adds to that speed.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Don't get upset because Superman's sole argument on this forum for keeping up with heralds is "ZOMFG SPEED" where as the rest seem to have a multitude of different ways to approach a fight.

lol Superman has more than enough in his locker to keep up with these heralds. He has a natural autoshield, and if we're free to use every power in continuity like you seem to do with Thor, he has Torquasm Rao which will prevent any soul draining.

Originally posted by Allankles
You're welcome to believe that. I don't think he is, because of not only the speed but the precision and skill Superman adds to that speed.



lol Superman has more than enough in his locker to keep up with these heralds. He has a natural autoshield, and if we're free to use every power in continuity like you seem to do with Thor, he has Torquasm Rao which will prevent any soul draining.

He doesnt have torquasm anymore

Originally posted by carver9
He doesnt have torquasm anymore

Torquasm Vo might be retconned, but I don't know about Torquasm Rao. Rao was more like deep meditative exercises that tethered the soul to the cosmos or was the whole scientific discipline of the ancient Kryptonians, with Vo being just one part of Rao.

Originally posted by Allankles
Torquasm Vao might be retconned, but I don't know about Torquasm Rao. Rao was more like deep meditative exercises that tethered the soul to the cosmos.

He doesnt have it and was kris said was true, the only thing that makes him even a threat towards any high herald is his speed, without it he wouldnt even last 3 panels against them.

What Kris said was far fetched. Doesn't fall under CIS even, Rao is just as valid truth be told, like the Phantom Zone projector or esoteric powers to be called upon at the insistence of the plot.

Originally posted by Allankles
What Kris said was far fetched. Doesn't fall under CIS even, Rao is just as valid truth be told, like the Phantom Zone projector or esoteric powers to be called upon at the insistence of the plot.

Kris made a good point, without speed supes along with wonder woman, etc...
wouldnt last 2 to 3 panels against someone like thor, surfer, brb, etc...
and Supes no longer possess that power so why're you still bringing it
up. When was the last time he actually even used it?

Originally posted by carver9
the only thing that makes him even a threat towards any high herald is his speed http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w86/KingoftheDead666/Facepalm.jpg

Originally posted by kgkg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w86/KingoftheDead666/Facepalm.jpg

cant pull it up, at work. What is it?

Kris was far fetched. He brought up Thor's high end feats and ignored Superman's. Two, Thor's defense is far from impregnable. Further Superman has his own energy attacks.

Just not a balanced analysis at all. I mean, no one brings up Superman's absorption feats, like the Mageddon war head or his ability to get stronger with electricity absorption, because whatever kind of debate we're having would lose focus, and it's better to argue averages.

Lastly, Rao is just as valid seeing as it's not a direct combat power but a body of mental and physical disciplines. I only brought it up to balance out the over-the-top non CIS argument.

Originally posted by Allankles
Kris was far fetched. He brought up Thor's high end feats and ignored Superman's. Two, Thor's defense is far from impregnable. Further Superman has his own energy attacks.

Just not a balanced analysis at all. I mean, no one brings up Superman's absorption feats, like the Mageddon war head or his ability to get stronger with electricity absorption, because whatever kind of debate we're having would lose focus, and it's better to argue averages.

Lastly, Rao is just as valid seeing as it's not a direct combat power but a body of mental and physical disciplines. I only brought it up to balance out the over-the-top non CIS argument.

No one is arguing that superman is weak because he is very powerful BUT
if you compare his power toooooooooooooo, lets say, surfer, thor, and beta ray
bill, he falls far behind. The three of them is equal to him physically,
BUT they're much more powerful than him. The only thing that gives superman
a saving grace, basically HOPE against them is his speed. Without his speed
each of them could basically just one shot him every damn time. Heat vision
wont work on any high herald, ice breath sure as hell aint working against
the 3 on this list so superman only option is to fight it out and without
the small speed edge that he has he would get CRUSHED by the high heralds
list above in this post.

I say team 2.

Team 1 is deffinitively more powerful, on paper.

But team 2 have more possibilities: Orion can be bfr, Stardust is un killable, and even if team 1 is fast, team 2 is helluva more faster. And Surfer or Stardust can amp Superman really fast too.

Originally posted by carver9
Heat vision
wont work on any high herald,

Heat vision won't work but some ambigous energy or magical blast will? You don't get it, he has abilities in every category, he just doesn't have the versatility; soul powers, transmutation etc. abilities that are not useful against their peers and other powerful beings for the most part.

And no one here is one shotting Superman, he's tanked several blasts from magical skyfathers and beat on a few himself.

And if we're listing abilities superman already has an energy shield around his body that might be breached by Thor's and BRB's lightning but he's taken such attacks for years and he's not going to make himself an easy target.

For most scenarios Supes has the beatings of both.

Thor vs Surfer - 6/10
Thor vs Stardust 6/10
Thor vs Superman 5/10

BRB vs Surfer - 4/10
BRB vs Stardust - 5/10
BRB vs Superman - 4/10

Orion vs Surfer - 4/10
Orion vs Stardust 5/10
Orion vs Superman 4/10

i think it more like this

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Orion can be bfr, How??

Originally posted by Allankles
Heat vision won't work but some ambigous energy or magical blast will? You don't get it, he has abilities in every category, he just doesn't have the versatility; soul powers, transmutation etc. abilities that are not useful against their peers and other powerful beings for the most part.

And no one here is one shotting Superman, he's tanked several blasts from magical skyfathers and beat on a few himself.

And if we're listing abilities superman already has an energy shield around his body that might be breached by Thor's and BRB's lightning but he's taken such attacks for years and he's not going to make himself an easy target.

For most scenarios Supes has the beatings of both.

So you honestly think that supes could withstand the attacks that Beta ray
bill was dishing out on stardust? I think it would kill him, hell I think
he would be koed by the attacks that beta ray bill put on the fernus wolf.

I agree also with the statement that supes has an energy shield around him
but so does hyperion and hyperion shields allowed him to withstand an
exploding sun but he still fell to thors hammer and commented on the blunt
of impact that it possess. Glads survived a solar system destroying blast
without even feeling it and swam in stars but he also comment on thors hammer
and overrall power, supes would get dropped if thor wanted to. This is if
supes doesnt rely on his speed.

I'm pretty sure if sufer hit supes with some of the attacks he hit unilord with
it would ko him. I'm pretty sure if thor hit supes with the god blast it
would either ko him or kill him. Im pretty sure if brb hit supes with the attack
that he hit stardust with that destroyed a planet, it would ko supes. Each
of them have ways of one shotting supes.

Originally posted by Allankles
What Kris said was far fetched. Doesn't fall under CIS even, Rao is just as valid truth be told, like the Phantom Zone projector or esoteric powers to be called upon at the insistence of the plot.

You're bringing up retconned shit. Talk about far fetching.

I'd like to know how energy absorption would fall under plot power, considering that Thor uses it every other god damned issue.

thor/beta ray vs superman should be a battlezone fight.

Good luck finding people who want to dig up that many scans,anyways whats stopping thor from anti-force blasting supes and don't bring in the he hardly uses it crap he uses it all the time.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
thor/beta ray vs superman should be a battlezone fight.

And it will be.

Only I'll be representing Loki in his shitstomp against Superman.

kewl

SS amps Superman to make it an easier fight for them. Team 2

that is true.

Didn't Busiek state that a lot of Superman's one-off abilities were going to be removed from continuity? Soul vision, T-Vo/Rao etc.

Originally posted by Ouallada
Didn't Busiek state that a lot of Superman's one-off abilities were going to be removed from continuity? Soul vision, T-Vo/Rao etc.

Torquasm Rao was not a one-time ability and since it's more like training, there's no reason why it would be retconned.

Orion's used the Astro Force to one-shot Superman (twice, I think.) BRB would trounce Stardust, yet again. Thor/Surfer is always a good match. Could go either way. But with his seeming upgrade in Annihilation I might give Surfer the small majority.

I'll take Team One for a majority barring no Surfer or Stardust amps for Superman. Team One has more raw power to work with.

Originally posted by Allankles
Torquasm Rao was not a one-time ability and since it's more like training, there's no reason why it would be retconned.

Probably not, but the Q&A session I read definitely spoke about T-vo not having a place in continuity, and T-vo has always been the more maligned of the two in any case. Out of curiosity, when was the last time T-Rao was specifically used on panel?

Allan doesn't know. He doesn't even read Superman. He likes reading Buster Bunny.

http://i30.tinypic.com/166gglg.jpg

Originally posted by Ouallada
Didn't Busiek state that a lot of Superman's one-off abilities were going to be removed from continuity? Soul vision, T-Vo/Rao etc.

"soul vision" isn't a one off ability.


far as the thread goes, kris and allankles. put each other on ignore or be civil to each other. it's either that or get warnings.

Originally posted by Ouallada
Out of curiosity, when was the last time T-Rao was specifically used on panel?

I think its last appearance was in the Superman title back in 2001 or 2000.

And Eny, you were looking for an excuse to post one of your guilty pleasures, weren't you?

Originally posted by Raoul
"soul vision" isn't a one off ability.


far as the thread goes, kris and allankles. put each other on ignore or be civil to each other. it's either that or get warnings.

I can't speak for Kris, but I personally have no problem with him.

Originally posted by Allankles
And Eny, you were looking for an excuse to post one of your guilty pleasures, weren't you?
The only Guilty Pleasures I have are by Laurell K. Hamilton.

Originally posted by Raoul
"soul vision" isn't a one off ability.




I had something more along the lines of being rarely used. In any case,





Looks like that's gone for now. The take on the Torquasm disciplines is a little shadier. What Kurt stated was that they are likely to be removed from continuity, but that another writer could expand on them in the future. Basically not saying anything conclusive. In any case, T-Rao is pretty much fine in my book for a character like Superman, but it should be exclusive to Kryptonians (unlike the last time I saw it on panel, when Lois used it). T-vo is slightly out of character for Superman, on the other hand.

Originally posted by Enyalus
The only Guilty Pleasures I have are by Laurell K. Hamilton.

Twilight fanbase

Originally posted by Ouallada
I had something more along the lines of being rarely used. In any case,





Looks like that's gone for now. The take on the Torquasm disciplines is a little shadier. What Kurt stated was that they are likely to be removed from continuity, but that another writer could expand on them in the future. Basically not saying anything conclusive. In any case, T-Rao is pretty much fine in my book for a character like Superman, but it should be exclusive to Kryptonians (unlike the last time I saw it on panel, when Lois used it). T-vo is slightly out of character for Superman, on the other hand.



Twilight fanbase

it isn't considered metaphysical, though. it's supposed to be simply another spectrum he can see in.

also, sadly, busiek doesn't write superman anymore.

Originally posted by Ouallada
Twilight fanbase
Not even close. That's why Twilight gets filed under the 'Young Adult' section.

Team 1 wins.

I unno... Superman has beaten Thor, SS pwns BRB and Orion really won't be able to put down Stardust...

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
I unno... Superman has beaten Thor, SS pwns BRB and Orion really won't be able to put down Stardust...

Superman only beat Thor due to Thor's initial shock over the hammer nonsense. Thor always does better in rematches. Look at how much better he did against Gladiator and the Rulk the second time around.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
I unno... Superman has beaten Thor, SS pwns BRB and Orion really won't be able to put down Stardust...



That crossover shouldnt be brought up because in that case Ironman>Thor since he one shotted supes with a blast of his repulsor ray. Superman was a beast throughout that story though, he ran through everyone.