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Deathwing gets the DS, battle takes place outside Luigi's mansion.

they better not mess up my lawn. what can deathwing do?

The fact that Deathwing became a puppet master, taking control of dragons (Including Malygos, Alexstrasza and Ysera) when he held it, incinerated entire armies and sent Malygos across the planet along with making the blue dragonflight extinct with the DS has me declare him a winner.

Even without it, he has shown enough power to win. Although all he needs to win is Endless Hunger.

Endless hunger is also allowed in.

It will consume Kain. He is not a good enough magician to survive it.

wipe your feet before you come inside

Sorry. Deathwing is stated not to care about honor or nobility. He won't care about your floor.

then he gets no crumpets or tea

There's one thing you should know about Deathwing. He never loses He doesn't always win, but he doesn't lose. So he'll get those crumpets, one way or the other.

Except in Days of the Dragon

Either way Deathwing alone is imo more then enough to defeat Kain, adding in the Demon Soul with the combined power of the Four remaining Aspects turns the odds entirely to Deathwings advantage.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
There's one thing you should know about Deathwing. He never loses He doesn't always win, but he doesn't lose. So he'll get those crumpets, one way or the other. over kain dead and mangled body

Originally posted by Utrigita
Except in Days of the Dragon

Either way Deathwing alone is imo more then enough to defeat Kain, adding in the Demon Soul with the combined power of the Four remaining Aspects turns the odds entirely to Deathwings advantage.

In Day of the Dragons, he did not win. Although he did not lose. He did attain some red dragon eggs and is scheming beneath Grim Batol.

Indeed. It required a top-tier Azerothian magician to stop Endless Hunger. Supposedly, in order to beat Neltharion you need to be Medivh material or higher.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
over kain dead and mangled body

Exactly. Just tell Neltharion where you want it.

This is more interesting and gains more respectful attention by me than the evil pig thread. Whats stopping Kain from teleporting out of the way of any major DS blast/attack, on top of Neltharian and then casting a spirit death into the dragons head/face?

The DS stretched a width adequate to destroy thousands of soldiers. To my knowledge, the longest Kain has teleported is a few hundred meters (Straight line distance). Could be wrong of course, but that distance is not adequate to be safe.

Spirit Death is by Azerothian definition magical, and Deathwing is resistant to magical, energy, immortal as well as physical and elemental attacks. And because he can detect magic and sense mind, Kain has no way of sneaking up on him either.

I know where my money is.

He could just time it so that the moment the wave/projectile/force or w/e it is that comes is behind him as he teleports so he dodges it, and what is the maximum range DW has used the soul?

yes but there are many types of magic, resistent or not he may not be able to take Kains spell. Blizzard games use the "magical" damage as a seperate one from elemental, poison and other types of magic spells have, sometimes however theres just plain "magic" like arcane or w/e. This is a death/warlock spell or at least thats prob what it closely resembles. has he ever survived having a soul ripping spell hit him? or anything close to its like?

Also Kain could still use the soul reaver itself to dig into the dragons eyes, he does not have to sneak, simply teleport, combine it with Kains ability to float in the air for a moment he could combine it to use several teleportations if Death wing is somehow able to keep out of Kains range constantly, but I doubt death wing will be able to figuire on Kain teleporting atop him. once kains on top theres no way DW could get him off unless he does some mad air movements.

kain could use the repel shield to repel magic back at DW, the DS is magic is it not?

ScreamPaste, may I troll BT in your thread? Pleeeeease?

Don't let him use Repel shield either, its banned as it allows Kain to block anything thrown at him.

That's a no limit fallacy, Moo, it doesn't actually do that.

Is that a yes or a no?

And whaaaaat? I was informed it blocks physical attacks, projectiles and spells, which should include about everything.

hes trying to play on the idea that the shield cannot stop a physical attack beyond what its been shown, which would be true in gameplay, yes.

magicwise however, its irrelvent.

Yes, Moo, you may carry on as you see fit.

No limit fallacies in this thread will be ignored.

Well if it blocks everything, then yeah it would be irrelevant.

It blocks most types of typical attack of a fair level, unless its magic, in which case it does not block it at all, it reflects it back like a mirror would reflect light.

The Demon Soul protects its wielder from magical attacks too. Not only that, it reflects the spells cast right back at the caster.

lol your not serious?

Yes he is.

lol how would you know? you have no idea about warcraft, hell even I know more of it than you seem to.

If he is, then this is going to be a funny old fight.

Originally posted by Burning thought
lol your not serious?

Well, it did protect Deathwing from Dreadlords' and Eredars' spells. Not even Archimonde bothered to attack him.

Well if it can reflect spells then well have spells flying all over the place...although when you say he did not bother to attack him, is this the reason why you claim spells cannot harm him? its not good evidence if it is.

Originally posted by Burning thought
lol how would you know? you have no idea about warcraft, hell even I know more of it than you seem to.

If he is, then this is going to be a funny old fight.

Unlike you I actually read other people's posts.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Well if it can reflect spells then well have spells flying all over the place...although when you say he did not bother to attack him, is this the reason why you claim spells cannot harm him? its not good evidence if it is.

Other Burning Legion casters attacked him and got pwned by their own spells.

I just wanted to point out that Archimonde knew better :P

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Unlike you I actually read other people's posts.

daft thing to say, stop trolling me and this thread for that mater, youve nothing worth to input.

Ok so its going to end up a no spell fight......because theyll be tossing spells and it would be flying around the place, Kain would have to use his non spell powers to win this himself. Deathwing has physical might, size and prob speed.

So, you're saying Kain gets wrecked?

Not yet he doesnt, he still has a soul devouring sword, teleportation and his target is large which means it has blind spots, areas of its body where it cant hit.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ok so its going to end up a no spell fight......because theyll be tossing spells and it would be flying around the place, Kain would have to use his non spell powers to win this himself. Deathwing has physical might, size and prob speed.

Fact is that the Demon Soul is so much more versatile. Deathwing, in his sheer madness, only used the destructive side of it.

It also has powers over magic(Malygos), life(Alexstrasza), the mind(Ysera), and time(Soridormi). The specific degree of these powers are unknown.

again, like the soul reaver which has conflict, time, dimention and energy, and through Kain, mind, state and death. The degree of which is known if it was not for the argument of what regulation means.

Another thing is that, well, when it comes to souls in Warcraft, thing get a bit fuzzy.

There are beings who survived getting their souls destroyed without any real side effects(unless you count becoming a prick a side effect).

Either way this is not an easy fight for either side, Deathwings size and shape will work to Kains advantage who can teleport to escape deathwings assaults, including on top of deathwing himself to use the reaver to pierce bare skin or through holes in his adamantium.

Also its arguable if powers like immolation from Blood omen 2 are spells, their more pyrokinesis mind powers than spells.

Wouldn't teleportation be a spell?

No, and its not targeted at Deathwing, its an ability effecting Kain himself.

So transmutation could bypass the shield?

Dont know? why? if its a spell no, if it is another effect then I dont know, you would have to explain a bit more please.

It basically allows you to without beam ore anything to change the phyiscal structure in a target. Deathwing did it in DotD. I'm just curious if the repel Shield have ever repelled a spell (which I'm not even sure that it is) that doesn't need to hit Kain in order to function the fact that he is there is enough.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
In Day of the Dragons, he did not win. Although he did not lose. He did attain some red dragon eggs and is scheming beneath Grim Batol.

Indeed. It required a top-tier Azerothian magician to stop Endless Hunger. Supposedly, in order to beat Neltharion you need to be Medivh material or higher.


He didn't get the eggs, not in the Book atleast he got the wagon but then Tyran followed him, and then after the battle the aspects arrived, they got there power back and well pwned him, he lost his position in the alliance, the eggs he claimed (in the book atleast) I would call it a Loss

The changed version of Endless Hunger that Deathwing used, even Medivh, without the counterspell that Krasus knew, would imo have died, but agreed you need Medivh ore above to take down Deathwing.

Originally posted by Utrigita
He didn't get the eggs, not in the Book atleast he got the wagon but then Tyran followed him, and then after the battle the aspects arrived, they got there power back and well pwned him, he lost his position in the alliance, the eggs he claimed (in the book atleast) I would call it a Loss

The changed version of Endless Hunger that Deathwing used, even Medivh, without the counterspell that Krasus knew, would imo have died, but agreed you need Medivh ore above to take down Deathwing.

I guess that could be true. My memory is a little vague revolving DotD. I just thought he succeeded in hiding the eggs just before the battle with the aspects. We do know, however, as of NotD that Deathwing is doing something beneath Grim Batol.
So I guess he was defeated, although Deathwing always lands on his feet.

That's true, I guess. Krasus with all his knowledge had only one single spell that could beat Endless Hunger (During it's early stage). I can't imagine anyone below Titan level can do anything about it if it reaches the level Krasus feared.

Originally posted by Utrigita
It basically allows you to without beam ore anything to change the phyiscal structure in a target. Deathwing did it in DotD. I'm just curious if the repel Shield have ever repelled a spell (which I'm not even sure that it is) that doesn't need to hit Kain in order to function the fact that he is there is enough.

I dont know, its just a shield that reflects spells. Technically/logically I cant see how the spell hitting Kain (I assume you mean a physical object, fireball, blast etc) is relevent simply because no spell actually hits Kain with the shield active, it just reflects.

In the case of the repel shield not working for some reason, e.g. a curse:

Has deathwing cast this without hitting the being, what are its specifics? cast time, did he stay still while casting it, what did it actually do when used, who was it used against etc.

Unless it is indeed without projectile, casts and hits instantly etc and unless ofc Deathwing has a bit of luck hes not going to likely hit Kain with it quick enough considering Kain will be teleporting atop him and jabbing the reaver into his eyes. And thats if Artifical glory is correct that Death Wing or the demon soul does indeed passively shield him from spells all over his body without his whim.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
That's true, I guess. Krasus with all his knowledge had only one single spell that could beat Endless Hunger (During it's early stage). I can't imagine anyone below Titan level can do anything about it if it reaches the level Krasus feared.

From the quote I remember he did not actually say there was only a single counter, simply that the spell he thought up was the only spell he could have done at the time.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I dont know, its just a shield that reflects spells. Technically/logically I cant see how the spell hitting Kain (I assume you mean a physical object, fireball, blast etc) is relevent simply because no spell actually hits Kain with the shield active, it just reflects.

In the case of the repel shield not working for some reason, e.g. a curse:

Has deathwing cast this without hitting the being, what are its specifics? cast time, did he stay still while casting it, what did it actually do when used, who was it used against etc.

Unless it is indeed without projectile, casts and hits instantly etc and unless ofc Deathwing has a bit of luck hes not going to likely hit Kain with it quick enough considering Kain will be teleporting atop him and jabbing the reaver into his eyes. And thats if Artifical glory is correct that Death Wing or the demon soul does indeed passively shield him from spells all over his body without his whim.


It doesn't move like a physical object, it just affects the target, no projectile ore visible form, not even a hint that it have been casted ore it's being used.

He was alone with Rhonin and melted a rock the size of Rhonin before Rhonin's eyes and then had the Lava vanish on the ground without lifting a finger. There was no cast time. Merely stating to Rhonin that if he wanted he could do the same to him.

No projectile and no Cast time from the looks of it. I highly doubt that the Soul Reaver will be enough to kill Deathwing, first you are going through the Adamantium Plating and you need the force of Alexstrasza at full power to strick them with enough force to actually injure Deathwing, on top of that he didn't have his shield active at the time because he didn't believe that Alexstrasza could injure him. AG is correct as mentioned in the DS is the power of Malygos, which apparently during the attack from the Demons, made it possible for Deathwing to without even being aware of it, was capable of throwing their spells right back at them.

Originally posted by Burning thought
From the quote I remember he did not actually say there was only a single counter, simply that the spell he thought up was the only spell he could have done at the time.

He tried a spell first that was supposed to counter it, that was the only counterspell against it that Krasus was sure would work and it would have hadn't Deathwing not altered the spell which made the counterspell useless, Krasus had another spell but he wasn't even sure that it could stop the endless hunger, and he was well aware that a single mistake was enough to kill him, and as you already know it was a spell that was old spoken in a nigh forgotten laungh and etc.

Originally posted by Utrigita
It doesn't move like a physical object, it just affects the target, no projectile ore visible form, not even a hint that it have been casted ore it's being used.

He was alone with Rhonin and melted a rock the size of Rhonin before Rhonin's eyes and then had the Lava vanish on the ground without lifting a finger. There was no cast time. Merely stating to Rhonin that if he wanted he could do the same to him.

No projectile and no Cast time from the looks of it. I highly doubt that the Soul Reaver will be enough to kill Deathwing, first you are going through the Adamantium Plating and you need the force of Alexstrasza at full power to strick them with enough force to actually injure Deathwing, on top of that he didn't have his shield active at the time because he didn't believe that Alexstrasza could injure him. AG is correct as mentioned in the DS is the power of Malygos, which apparently during the attack from the Demons, made it possible for Deathwing to without even being aware of it, was capable of throwing their spells right back at them.



He tried a spell first that was supposed to counter it, that was the only counterspell against it that Krasus was sure would work and it would have hadn't Deathwing not altered the spell which made the counterspell useless, Krasus had another spell but he wasn't even sure that it could stop the endless hunger, and he was well aware that a single mistake was enough to kill him, and as you already know it was a spell that was old spoken in a nigh forgotten laungh and etc.

is this stated and implied or is it simply not stated? if this is a book the fact it does not have a statement of a cast time does not mean it does not have one, or an action.

Thats not necesserily transmutation, it could just be a targeted spell, this is one of those feats where I would need a quote. It may not actually work against living beings, Death wing could have been bluffing. If he could do such a thing he may have done it to a dragon or an aspect.

The SR is perfect to kill him, it attacks his soul and Kain could strike somewhere not touched by adamantium, theres always a crevice, there could be an opening, hell push it between plates, there has to be a hole because adamantium does not bend like flesh, if it comes down to it, Kain could go for the eyes.

Does it say he was not aware, is there a quote?

so...Krasus did indeed know several that "could" have possibly worked against it, which means its not necesserily beyond Kain to stop, all the unspoken spell was made up of was light and heat, Kain has both.

Originally posted by Burning thought
is this stated and implied or is it simply not stated? if this is a book the fact it does not have a statement of a cast time does not mean it does not have one, or an action.

Thats not necesserily transmutation, it could just be a targeted spell, this is one of those feats where I would need a quote. It may not actually work against living beings, Death wing could have been bluffing. If he could do such a thing he may have done it to a dragon or an aspect.

The SR is perfect to kill him, it attacks his soul and Kain could strike somewhere not touched by adamantium, theres always a crevice, there could be an opening, hell push it between plates, there has to be a hole because adamantium does not bend like flesh, if it comes down to it, Kain could go for the eyes.

Does it say he was not aware, is there a quote?

so...Krasus did indeed know several that "could" have possibly worked against it, which means its not necesserily beyond Kain to stop, all the unspoken spell was made up of was light and heat, Kain has both.

Why would he do such a thing on a dragon or an aspect? He kicked their asses without such spells. Twice. Two out of three times. Also in case you have not noticed, Azerothians are very tender in battle. You next to never see anyone go all-out in battle. There are spells that can kill someone with a gesture, yet such spells are next to never used.

Yes, it states that he was aware of this. A single word, a single letter missed in the nigh-unspeakable language could kill him. I'm not going to get you a quote, and not sure Utrigita will either. In my opinion, you aren't really worth the trouble. If you are distrustful, that's your problem. Not mine. If you don't believe me/us, I'm not going to try convince you.


Krasus said that only one other spell could help him against Endless Hunger. It's ridiculous how you speak of it as if it's that simple. You are aware that Krasus has both light and heat spells as well, right? Just like any other mage in all of Azeroth. Fire and light are two of the most basic spells on the planet. The fact that Kain master both is not impressive at all. Azerothian children mages can as well. It will not help him.

If Korialstrasz himself has to go to such extent that he risk his own life to stop a spell, you can't be so daft as to think that it's so easily countered that all he has to do is burst some fire on it and light up the room. He's done both those in the past, and since he was the only one knowing that Deathwing was still alive (Except for Nozdormu), he would be an idiot to risk his life unless it was absolutely necessary. He said himself that if he did not stop the spell there and then, it would be too late to do anything about it.

Krasus is no idiot.

And Kain is a magical weakling in comparison to Warcraft magicians. He won't stand a chance at stopping the Endless Hunger.

First off ^agreed Q.

Originally posted by Burning thought
is this stated and implied or is it simply not stated? if this is a book the fact it does not have a statement of a cast time does not mean it does not have one, or an action.

Thats not necesserily transmutation, it could just be a targeted spell, this is one of those feats where I would need a quote. It may not actually work against living beings, Death wing could have been bluffing. If he could do such a thing he may have done it to a dragon or an aspect.

The SR is perfect to kill him, it attacks his soul and Kain could strike somewhere not touched by adamantium, theres always a crevice, there could be an opening, hell push it between plates, there has to be a hole because adamantium does not bend like flesh, if it comes down to it, Kain could go for the eyes.

Does it say he was not aware, is there a quote?

so...Krasus did indeed know several that "could" have possibly worked against it, which means its not necesserily beyond Kain to stop, all the unspoken spell was made up of was light and heat, Kain has both.

It is shown to be the case (as much as it can be shown in a book), Ehmm when a guy basically without lifting a finger ore doing anything else for that matter, I see no reason to assume that it requires cast time ore a action, to think that is does when shown that it doesn't is in logical imo.

Sure I will translate it to the best of my abilities



I take the liberty of pointing out that from English to my language and back to English again the context can easily have changed, I have noticed that before, so if the English version (which is ultimate canon) has another description of the encounter it's imo the correct one. Deathwing doesn't bluff, he cheats and so on but he doesn't bluff, he shows that feat to Rhonin to assure Rhonin that right now he is living only because he is of use to Deathwing. Rhonin was well aware of that fact. Which would have been as Q mentioned extremely boring, Deathwing can raise a freaking volcano if he wants why doesn't he in DotD do that? because it would blow the plot to bits.

Has the Soul Reaver ever stolen a Soul from a Aspect of the earth ore to refrain have it ever stolen the Soul from a living being of tremendous power? Yeah straight after the eyes of Deathwing great idea, because then Deathwing most certainly doesn't see him, do you think that because Deathwing is large he isn't agile?



He knew two, the one he tried first and the second he tried afterwards. If I didn't formulate that clearly enough I apologise. If the spell was as simple as you wishes it to be, it couldn't instantly have killed Krasus if he had spoken out a wrong word neither would it have made a amount of heat so high that a Dragon thinks it would burn it too death.

What page (roughly) did the Rhonin thing take place on? I have the english version, so with a page number I can have a look.

page 131, I mention it because I recall numerous incidents in Harry Potter and other translated books where the things I read was slightly altered from the ones in the english version, I especially recall a Star Wars where in the english version the force user pushed his hand forward while in the translated version if I translated back it would be something like a hand gesture. So it's cool to have you check Q

131 for me is when he rescue Rhonin (again). I have the pocket version, I'm afraid.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Why would he do such a thing on a dragon or an aspect? He kicked their asses without such spells. Twice. Two out of three times. Also in case you have not noticed, Azerothians are very tender in battle. You next to never see anyone go all-out in battle. There are spells that can kill someone with a gesture, yet such spells are next to never used.

Yes, it states that he was aware of this. A single word, a single letter missed in the nigh-unspeakable language could kill him. I'm not going to get you a quote, and not sure Utrigita will either. In my opinion, you aren't really worth the trouble. If you are distrustful, that's your problem. Not mine. If you don't believe me/us, I'm not going to try convince you.


Krasus said that only one other spell could help him against Endless Hunger. It's ridiculous how you speak of it as if it's that simple. You are aware that Krasus has both light and heat spells as well, right? Just like any other mage in all of Azeroth. Fire and light are two of the most basic spells on the planet. The fact that Kain master both is not impressive at all. Azerothian children mages can as well. It will not help him.

If Korialstrasz himself has to go to such extent that he risk his own life to stop a spell, you can't be so daft as to think that it's so easily countered that all he has to do is burst some fire on it and light up the room. He's done both those in the past, and since he was the only one knowing that Deathwing was still alive (Except for Nozdormu), he would be an idiot to risk his life unless it was absolutely necessary. He said himself that if he did not stop the spell there and then, it would be too late to do anything about it.

Krasus is no idiot.

And Kain is a magical weakling in comparison to Warcraft magicians. He won't stand a chance at stopping the Endless Hunger.

"shrug" but still its still not implication that it may work on living beings, I mean if hes only used it on a rock. Hard case to make especially since its quite vague.

Quotes are very important in debates, for example in the other thread it turned the pigs time spell from an instant win for him to a pointless waste. utrigita is usually good at providing evidence.

So he has two spells that could help him? your overhyping the spell too much, the sitation could also factor largely into it, perhaps what with Deathwing also there he could not risk another spell that could take longer, time Kain has that Krasus does not. Well thats all its stated the spell had, maybe he has not the power of both or your giving him too much credit or something.

Well I dont know the situation, what I do know from the quote you provided before is that it was brighter than the sun or something and had incredible heat, its all fairly vague and as it seems now he had other spells that may have worked, there may be other factors instead of just raw spell talent for why he could not get rid of it more easily.

"shrug" not in canon, and in this thread Kain has a vast amount of magic powers so stating him as a magical weakling is redundant when he could likely destroy/defeat these "warcraft magicians".



Originally posted by Utrigita
First off ^agreed Q.



It is shown to be the case (as much as it can be shown in a book), Ehmm when a guy basically without lifting a finger ore doing anything else for that matter, I see no reason to assume that it requires cast time ore a action, to think that is does when shown that it doesn't is in logical imo.

Sure I will translate it to the best of my abilities



I take the liberty of pointing out that from English to my language and back to English again the context can easily have changed, I have noticed that before, so if the English version (which is ultimate canon) has another description of the encounter it's imo the correct one. Deathwing doesn't bluff, he cheats and so on but he doesn't bluff, he shows that feat to Rhonin to assure Rhonin that right now he is living only because he is of use to Deathwing. Rhonin was well aware of that fact. Which would have been as Q mentioned extremely boring, Deathwing can raise a freaking volcano if he wants why doesn't he in DotD do that? because it would blow the plot to bits.

Has the Soul Reaver ever stolen a Soul from a Aspect of the earth ore to refrain have it ever stolen the Soul from a living being of tremendous power? Yeah straight after the eyes of Deathwing great idea, because then Deathwing most certainly doesn't see him, do you think that because Deathwing is large he isn't agile?



He knew two, the one he tried first and the second he tried afterwards. If I didn't formulate that clearly enough I apologise. If the spell was as simple as you wishes it to be, it couldn't instantly have killed Krasus if he had spoken out a wrong word neither would it have made a amount of heat so high that a Dragon thinks it would burn it too death.

fairly vague quote,and these golden rings Deathwing summoned may be significant as well, range is also important, by the sounds of it it was merely a room, he may also need to have his opponent nearby. Also was this human form or dragon form? this may also be relevent.

Ime curious, ive heard this but has he actually raised a volcano?

define tremendous power and explain its relevent to stealing the soul which is typically a fairly defenceless immaterial part of a being that that being cannot usually sense itself or protect. Soul attacks are one of the nastiest, Deathwing being tremendously powerful is an opinion, more unusual is the paradox of stating something as able to resist something simply based on tremendous power yet if it is drained of its soul, then it is bested.

But I am correct, it was heat and light that did it, does this heat have other external feats? I mean Kains light fills a room and blinds enemies, his fire incinterates them and his pyrokenisis immolate has albiet in anothers usage shattered rock through heat.

All kain has to do is teleport away from endless hunger, hell even atop Deathwing, Deathwings own spell could, forgive the wording be the "death" of him if Kain moves around and on top of Deathwing, the hunger may devour its caster.

I'd like to highlight a flaw in this logic. Kain's not a living being.

also, in another thread you argued that his body is an inanimate husk that shouldn't work .

yeh, it "should" be an inanimate husk but its still alive through his scion of balance effect, its not as if a rock, certainly not when hes teleporting around, half the time not giving Deathwing a target to even aim a spell at regardless of its status of being a non projectile spell.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Quotes are very important in debates, for example in the other thread it turned the pigs time spell from an instant win for him to a pointless waste. utrigita is usually good at providing evidence.

No, they really aren't. Often helpful to determine a feat, but only vital if you are so obsessed with being right that you don't trust a fellow member. If you don't believe the others, you aren't obliged to debate that point. If you do from that point forth is your choice. Quotes from books, movies or games should NEVER be an expectation, but rather an appreciation for being privileged the time and effort of a fellow member.

Quotes are appreciated. Useful. Effective. Not important.
I've seen you time and time again get a quote that everyone except for you have ended up agreeing with. Giving you quotes is in my opinion a waste of time. You abuse the width of the English language and use your own bias to decree yourself correct.

I'll answer the rest tomorrow.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
131 for me is when he rescue Rhonin (again). I have the pocket version, I'm afraid.

It's directly after in my version at least, Krasus entire talk with Malygos.

Originally posted by Burning thought
fairly vague quote,and these golden rings Deathwing summoned may be significant as well, range is also important, by the sounds of it it was merely a room, he may also need to have his opponent nearby. Also was this human form or dragon form? this may also be relevent.

Ime curious, ive heard this but has he actually raised a volcano?

define tremendous power and explain its relevent to stealing the soul which is typically a fairly defenceless immaterial part of a being that that being cannot usually sense itself or protect. Soul attacks are one of the nastiest, Deathwing being tremendously powerful is an opinion, more unusual is the paradox of stating something as able to resist something simply based on tremendous power yet if it is drained of its soul, then it is bested.

But I am correct, it was heat and light that did it, does this heat have other external feats? I mean Kains light fills a room and blinds enemies, his fire incinterates them and his pyrokenisis immolate has albiet in anothers usage shattered rock through heat.

All kain has to do is teleport away from endless hunger, hell even atop Deathwing, Deathwings own spell could, forgive the wording be the "death" of him if Kain moves around and on top of Deathwing, the hunger may devour its caster.

It's vague because there isn't anything more to work on, the rings was one of Rhonins strongest spell, I just added the context to why Deathwing choosed to show to Rhonin what he could do to him. They was out in the open and given the context I would say there is some distance between Rhonin and Deathwing. Whether ore not Deathwing was in his dragon form ore not is of no concern his power's doesn't change.

Not in the Books, but as mentioned if Deathwing did that in the center of the Alliance Castle for instance he would rip the plot to shreds.

Deathwing has power imo beyond anyone in LoK, I'm interested in knowing against whom Kain has with the Soul Reaver claimed a soul that makes you think it would work on Deathwing, please don't say that because it works on humans it auto works on Deathwing. Perhaps in LoK, that is not the case in Warcraft.

You are correct in some sense, that light and fire was present but it is imo beyond anything Kain can has shown capable of conjuring, if all it toke was a fireball and a lightflare Krasus wouldn't have been scared by the Endless Hunger, that much is certain.

Teleport away from a Hunger that will basically hunt him forever? I wish him Good Luck, as for Deathwing being killed by his own randomized Spell... I find that extremely unlikely.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
No, they really aren't. Often helpful to determine a feat, but only vital if you are so obsessed with being right that you don't trust a fellow member. If you don't believe the others, you aren't obliged to debate that point. If you do from that point forth is your choice. Quotes from books, movies or games should NEVER be an expectation, but rather an appreciation for being privileged the time and effort of a fellow member.

Quotes are appreciated. Useful. Effective. Not important.
I've seen you time and time again get a quote that everyone except for you have ended up agreeing with. Giving you quotes is in my opinion a waste of time. You abuse the width of the English language and use your own bias to decree yourself correct.

I'll answer the rest tomorrow.

Thats what a lazy person who does not or cannot provide feats would say, just trusting someone is pointless, ive given you an example where that does not work and if I had an infnite memory and patience, could find many more, especially warcraft quotes. Although this is your statement against mine with evidence, so mine is stronger.


But then thats your opinion, just like its their opinion on the quote, its unimportant if they agree, especially if their on your side to begin with, its me you need to change the decision of, which is the main goal of debating. And through real evidence you need to use it. Also remember what I said about evidence, none of the statements in this thread hold it which outlines the importance of evidence, imagine if I just told you Kain could use regulation powers to infnitly control magic? yet you now youve seen my evidence disagree with that.....thats a piece of evidence from my side AND yours that outlines the truth that evidence is extremely important.

The fact you are either too lazy to provide evidence or dont want me pulling your quotes apart to make your characters feats seem less powerful is neither here nor there or a baring on their importance.

Originally posted by Utrigita
It's vague because there isn't anything more to work on, the rings was one of Rhonins strongest spell, I just added the context to why Deathwing choosed to show to Rhonin what he could do to him. They was out in the open and given the context I would say there is some distance between Rhonin and Deathwing. Whether ore not Deathwing was in his dragon form ore not is of no concern his power's doesn't change.

Not in the Books, but as mentioned if Deathwing did that in the center of the Alliance Castle for instance he would rip the plot to shreds.

Deathwing has power imo beyond anyone in LoK, I'm interested in knowing against whom Kain has with the Soul Reaver claimed a soul that makes you think it would work on Deathwing, please don't say that because it works on humans it auto works on Deathwing. Perhaps in LoK, that is not the case in Warcraft.

You are correct in some sense, that light and fire was present but it is imo beyond anything Kain can has shown capable of conjuring, if all it toke was a fireball and a lightflare Krasus wouldn't have been scared by the Endless Hunger, that much is certain.

Teleport away from a Hunger that will basically hunt him forever? I wish him Good Luck, as for Deathwing being killed by his own randomized Spell... I find that extremely unlikely.

oh but what spells he can perform may, if we take a simple spell that may need a gesture to perform, a dragon making a gesture is arguably slower/quicker or more obvious than a human. Its small diffrence but it can be important. By the looks of it, Deathwing has to not only see what he is melting but also an effort of will.

Anyone? the Elder God could prob defeat most of warcraft or at least those on the planet. And your not making any logical sense, your argument seems to be "I think DW is more powerful so he atuomatically resists/defeats an ability because Kain is not as impressive!" thats a lot of illogical bs tbh and its not backed by anything. no the sword has not taken the soul of anyone other than humanoids although its the only weapon that can harm the Elder God who is a continental sized being, perhaps best described in the Warcraft unvierse as the "mother of all old gods". The power of a weapon does not change depending on the target, never has at least in the Soul reavers case, its a soul devouring weapon, simple....Kain strikes Deathwing who apprently so far seems to have no soul resistances and he drops dead or so weak Kain has more or less won.

Not certain, perhaps its just because he did not think of them at the time or he judged such as spells as weak despite the hunger not showing any feats to show its strong against them, either way the spell itself was of light and heat, thats it.....

You find it unlikely do you? unlikely when kain could easily be sitting atop him? on him? sitting on one of his Adamantium plates while invisible or made out of mist and DW is thinking how foolish he was for conjuring something that is about to devour him in its path towards Kain. Kain has powers that make this hunger fairly useless, as useless as Kains time freezing bolt chasing the "Flash".

Originally posted by Utrigita
It's directly after in my version at least, Krasus entire talk with Malygos.

Found it. So here's how it is, comparing and elaborating your quote first:



The golden rings is in fact Rhonin's spell and not Deathwing's. Therefore irrelevant to actual feat preformed by our Neltharion. Rhonin narrated that it was a spell particularly good at binding ancient entities and dragons foremost. Deathwing proves that his level of power is beyond mere binding magic.
Deathwing in this state was in his human form, for what it's worth.



Continuation for verification that it in fact works on living:

Well thats not a fact that it works on living ,a threat is not a fact, but still, evidence is better than statement. I answered utrigitos above on the matter however.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Well thats not a fact that it works on living ,a threat is not a fact, but still, evidence is better than statement. I answered utrigitos above on the matter however.

He melted a rock. How is that not dangerous for a living, if directed at them? I'll just go ahead and have you meet Tyrygosa.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6593/image012cgm.jpg

These two pictures show how Tyrygosa is melting people in very little time. In the first picture, Tyrygosa is even extremely weak, barely able to stand, let alone cast a spell. She is snared by the skeleton Ichor (The talker) in the next panel because she was too weak to fight back.

In the second, she has gathered new strength and had a chance to rest. It's taking place roughly a day later, when they were ambushed by minions of Dar'Khan.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2832/image006ngr.jpg

Now to my point with showing you Tyrygosa doing this. Neltharion is more than a thousand times more powerful (Than Korialstrasz), not to mention a dragon Aspect and an insane amount of years older as well as more cunning in the magical arts.

Now imagine him, not only a thousand times more powerful, but almost quadruple his own strength because he is carrying the Demon Soul.


If you don't think he can melt Rhonin, we're done here

Those scans make it look like an expelling of magical energy, not simply a stare, looks like a diffrent type of spell to me, its obvious he could melt Rhonin, not that I know who Rhonin is but since you talk of him as if hes nothing in comparison to DW ill take that on base value.

If Deathwings spell is to do with a blast of magic like that then it may have disadvantages.

But its irrelvent, DW in the quote looks at the stone and it goes molten, considering Kain will be teleporting constantly if he knows whats best with (kain is no fool and may be older and wiser than DW himself), especially if the Dragon is using the highly destructive demon soul then its not going to be as simple as melting that stone. not to mention, whats the likeliness hes going to use this tactic which he used to simply scare Rhonin on Kain when hes holding far more powerful weapons and is I assume, going all out in this battle.

Considering that melting someone isn't a particularly impressive feat, I can see no reason why Deathwing, let alone with the Demon Soul in his possession, wouldn't be able to cast it on a living being.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Considering that melting someone isn't a particularly impressive feat, I can see no reason why Deathwing, let alone with the Demon Soul in his possession, wouldn't be able to cast it on a living being.

Medivh melted someone by thinking it, or "At will" as the RPG book would explain it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
oh but what spells he can perform may, if we take a simple spell that may need a gesture to perform, a dragon making a gesture is arguably slower/quicker or more obvious than a human. Its small diffrence but it can be important. By the looks of it, Deathwing has to not only see what he is melting but also an effort of will.

Anyone? the Elder God could prob defeat most of warcraft or at least those on the planet. And your not making any logical sense, your argument seems to be "I think DW is more powerful so he atuomatically resists/defeats an ability because Kain is not as impressive!" thats a lot of illogical bs tbh and its not backed by anything. no the sword has not taken the soul of anyone other than humanoids although its the only weapon that can harm the Elder God who is a continental sized being, perhaps best described in the Warcraft unvierse as the "mother of all old gods". The power of a weapon does not change depending on the target, never has at least in the Soul reavers case, its a soul devouring weapon, simple....Kain strikes Deathwing who apprently so far seems to have no soul resistances and he drops dead or so weak Kain has more or less won.

Not certain, perhaps its just because he did not think of them at the time or he judged such as spells as weak despite the hunger not showing any feats to show its strong against them, either way the spell itself was of light and heat, thats it.....

You find it unlikely do you? unlikely when kain could easily be sitting atop him? on him? sitting on one of his Adamantium plates while invisible or made out of mist and DW is thinking how foolish he was for conjuring something that is about to devour him in its path towards Kain. Kain has powers that make this hunger fairly useless, as useless as Kains time freezing bolt chasing the "Flash".

If we go by what the translated version said it would have no relevance the speed of Deathwing's eyefocus don't change drastically, however going by what the original text said Deathwing apparently has to move his finger to the target in the dragons case a claw, so Kain has to move instantly ore he will be melted. The spell pretty much happened instantly, the force of will required was at most minimal, If Malygos can choose to look whatever he likes (shapeshifting) in some dark hidden cornor of his mind, it shows just how much energy/will it requires for the dragons to use their magic.

Most of the mortal population, true but so could many other beings on Azeroth that doesn't make them above deathwing by default, neither do I see how the Elder God has any relevance since the Soul Reaver didn't steal the Elder God's Soul. No I just want like you did proof of what makes you think that Kain could draw out the Soul of Deathwing. The Dreadlords soul stealing beings couldn't do anything that could be related to soul magic against the ordinary dragons in war of the ancient, based on that I have no reason to believe that a Sword that has so far only has a instant effect on Humans (when they was weakened), and the Elder God was hardly continental size. Absolutely nonsense to be honest, the power of a Gun is greatly reduced when you are trying to use it to bring down a tank. Even a Nuke would based on the target have a different effect, the blast power might be the same but the armor of the given target, makes a difference. Even if we automatically assume that the Soul Reaver steal the targets soul (which it have failed to do on atleast two occasions, the Elder God and the Hylden Lord) it would still have to go through the adamantium plating on Deathwing and his magical shield.

Sorry but that is just plain ignorancy, if a Fireball spell and a flare spell would have been sufficiant, first off Krasus wouldn't almost have been paralyzed with fear, secondly he would have used a fireball and light, seen as how he immidiately after creates light and seen as how his first spell used in War of the Ancient was a immolation spell, he didn't he used a spell he had never spoken only read about and that Spell (the counterspell) was devoured by the Endless hunger, it also pretty much highlightens what would happen with a fireball ore a light flare, so your saying that Heat and light is enough is from my point of view a complete lack of misunderstanding concerning the Character that was in the situation.

I find it unlikely that Deathwing would place something in his home what could potentially kill him. You don't think that Deathwing can teleport? I'm sure Kain would be fine sitting on adamantium plates that is being heated by the fires that flow around in Deathwing's veins which is around the heat of molten lava in the mist form (I personally have my doubt that he can even get anywhere close to DW when DW holds the Demon Soul because Malygos tried that and as you know got blown across the planet)... While it might be a option for Kain to use his timeslow it would mean that he has to leave his mist form, and well melting is next.

Originally posted by Utrigita
If we go by what the translated version said it would have no relevance the speed of Deathwing's eyefocus don't change drastically, however going by what the original text said Deathwing apparently has to move his finger to the target in the dragons case a claw, so Kain has to move instantly ore he will be melted. The spell pretty much happened instantly, the force of will required was at most minimal, If Malygos can choose to look whatever he likes (shapeshifting) in some dark hidden cornor of his mind, it shows just how much energy/will it requires for the dragons to use their magic.

Most of the mortal population, true but so could many other beings on Azeroth that doesn't make them above deathwing by default, neither do I see how the Elder God has any relevance since the Soul Reaver didn't steal the Elder God's Soul. No I just want like you did proof of what makes you think that Kain could draw out the Soul of Deathwing. The Dreadlords soul stealing beings couldn't do anything that could be related to soul magic against the ordinary dragons in war of the ancient, based on that I have no reason to believe that a Sword that has so far only has a instant effect on Humans (when they was weakened), and the Elder God was hardly continental size. Absolutely nonsense to be honest, the power of a Gun is greatly reduced when you are trying to use it to bring down a tank. Even a Nuke would based on the target have a different effect, the blast power might be the same but the armor of the given target, makes a difference. Even if we automatically assume that the Soul Reaver steal the targets soul (which it have failed to do on atleast two occasions, the Elder God and the Hylden Lord) it would still have to go through the adamantium plating on Deathwing and his magical shield.

Sorry but that is just plain ignorancy, if a Fireball spell and a flare spell would have been sufficiant, first off Krasus wouldn't almost have been paralyzed with fear, secondly he would have used a fireball and light, seen as how he immidiately after creates light and seen as how his first spell used in War of the Ancient was a immolation spell, he didn't he used a spell he had never spoken only read about and that Spell (the counterspell) was devoured by the Endless hunger, it also pretty much highlightens what would happen with a fireball ore a light flare, so your saying that Heat and light is enough is from my point of view a complete lack of misunderstanding concerning the Character that was in the situation.

I find it unlikely that Deathwing would place something in his home what could potentially kill him. You don't think that Deathwing can teleport? I'm sure Kain would be fine sitting on adamantium plates that is being heated by the fires that flow around in Deathwing's veins which is around the heat of molten lava in the mist form (I personally have my doubt that he can even get anywhere close to DW when DW holds the Demon Soul because Malygos tried that and as you know got blown across the planet)... While it might be a option for Kain to use his timeslow it would mean that he has to leave his mist form, and well melting is next.

As I said above, Kain could be teleporting constantly which he would be doing considering the DS power and Kain is no fool, and if he is melted he would prob reform as mist, hell the mist form is an instant transformation of his body so he could resist this melting from that by turning himself even less viscous, gas>liquid. I doubt DW will use this power anyway, hes got the choice of all this power from the DS or his melting trick, I doubt hes going to choose melting.

Its relevent because the EG was massively wounded by it, it was the only weapon capable, I was outlining out stating it to be just a soul stealing weapon is folly when it has other unususal properties, including hitting a being that both spectral and material beings cant seem to strike. because thats what the sword is made to do and DW so far has no resistance shown. When did a dreadlord attempt to steal the soul of a dragon? or DW? was the dragon shielded or defenceless? and no, the only time the Soul reaver has an instant effect in gameplay is in BO1, where its a one hit kill which obliterates the beings body as well. Hardly continental? Nosgoth is either a continent or a planet, either way the EG is enormous (and can make itself far larger on a whim) and far larger than things in Warcraft, it would probably smother even a titan with its size.

wrong, the power of the gun is exactley the same when fired at a tank, the only problem is the resistance of the tank is massively higher than the guns power and it is "resisted". Only in this case, we have Kains power of his sword and seemingly zero resistance from DW. Furthermore the only reason the Hylden Lords soul is not taken is because of the Nexus stone which protects him from the reavers power, Kain uses it agains him to regain the sword in the end of BO2. The EG is an unkown being, it may not even have a soul, we know it absorbs them, eats them and then puts them into the wheel to recreate them as life but thats it. We know it slices through his tentacles like butter.

As I said, timing could also be important, perhaps the light he creates is no more than an Luminous from harry potter or w/e its called and not enough, perhaps his fireball takes too long to cast or he was not certain it would have been useful so he used this dangerous spell which he thought was the strongest he could have performed in the time period he had. Either way this hunger is featless and due to the fact it would devour DW and kain cna escape it with ease its irrelvent, a useless spell in comparison to DS and this melting.

I dont know, can he teleport? if so has he done it in Dragon form? Do we know the plates heat up like this to burn Kain? and as I said, Kain could stand on Deathwing, theres no evidence to suggest a plate covers ever piece of skin DW has, its illogical, there would have to be slits between plates so DW can move, especially on his arms, tail, neck etc. Malygos is a huge dragon, he would be an easy target to strike with the soul, Kain being small has an advantage over Malygos.

Kain puts up his repel shield early on to repel magic back at DW, then he continues on to teleport to escape this melting fate or blasts from the DS and DW physical attacks. He teleports atop DW and fires an incapacitation bolt into DW head, freezing him in time who drops like a rock into the ground below. kain finishes his opponent with one of his soul devouring powers, unless he can claim the DS for himself and use it to blast DW into piecies.

Originally posted by Utrigita
While it might be a option for Kain to use his timeslow it would mean that he has to leave his mist form, and well melting is next.

Remember that Neltharion neglected time magic even without the Demon Soul.

How? when? and in what form?

Originally posted by Burning thought
How? when? and in what form?

It's War of the Ancients, Day of the Dragon or Beyond the Dark Portal. At least as far as I know, he has only made an appearance in those three. Nozdormu participated in Day of the Dragon, so that might be it.

Of course, Soridormi participated in War of the Ancients.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain puts up his repel shield early on to repel magic back at DW, then he continues on to teleport to escape this melting fate or blasts from the DS and DW physical attacks. He teleports atop DW and fires an incapacitation bolt into DW head, freezing him in time who drops like a rock into the ground below. kain finishes his opponent with one of his soul devouring powers, unless he can claim the DS for himself and use it to blast DW into piecies.

If he teleported atop DW he would most likely get blown away, if not, his incapacitation bolt would be reflected back on him. Not like it really matters, because DW has been shown to shrug of incapacitation and using time powers against him with the Demon Soul would be pretty much moot.

Kain's best chance is to try to quickly teleport in and snatch the DS.

Snatch the DS is beyond unlikely. Deathwing's physical strength dwarf that of Kain by far.

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
Snatch the DS is beyond unlikely. Deathwing's physical strength dwarf that of Kain by far.

Snatch not necessarily with physical strength.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Snatch not necessarily with physical strength.

Then what? Kain's meek telekinesis is out of the question as well.

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
Then what? Kain's meek telekinesis is out of the question as well.

Like teleporting away with it? Or maybe striking it with Soul Reaver? Persons that didn't participate in the creation of the Demon Soul are apparently able to at least damage it.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Like teleporting away with it? Or maybe striking it with Soul Reaver? Persons that didn't participate in the creation of the Demon Soul are apparently able to at least damage it.

Kain lack the capability to damage the Demon Soul. Teleporting away with it is also unlikely, since Deathwing will have a grip on it, very possibly tight within his palm. Kain can't fly anyway, so gravity would work in his disadvantage.

If anything, Kain is toast if he teleport in front of Deathwing. He might as well grip him as he did Rhonin, only tight.

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
Kain lack the capability to damage the Demon Soul. Teleporting away with it is also unlikely, since Deathwing will have a grip on it, very possibly tight within his palm. Kain can't fly anyway, so gravity would work in his disadvantage.

If anything, Kain is toast if he teleport in front of Deathwing. He might as well grip him as he did Rhonin, only tight.

If he has it gripped tightly in him palm, then yeah, Kain wouldn't be able to get it.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
If he has it gripped tightly in him palm, then yeah, Kain wouldn't be able to get it.

If I remember it properly, Deathwing's physical force was adequate to break through a magical barrier and tear DS loose with pure strength. This during the end of War of the Ancients.

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
If I remember it properly, Deathwing's physical force was adequate to break through a magical barrier and tear DS loose with pure strength. This during the end of War of the Ancients.

Yeah. That barrier would also nuke anyone trying to get past through it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
As I said above, Kain could be teleporting constantly which he would be doing considering the DS power and Kain is no fool, and if he is melted he would prob reform as mist, hell the mist form is an instant transformation of his body so he could resist this melting from that by turning himself even less viscous, gas>liquid. I doubt DW will use this power anyway, hes got the choice of all this power from the DS or his melting trick, I doubt hes going to choose melting.

Its relevent because the EG was massively wounded by it, it was the only weapon capable, I was outlining out stating it to be just a soul stealing weapon is folly when it has other unususal properties, including hitting a being that both spectral and material beings cant seem to strike. because thats what the sword is made to do and DW so far has no resistance shown. When did a dreadlord attempt to steal the soul of a dragon? or DW? was the dragon shielded or defenceless? and no, the only time the Soul reaver has an instant effect in gameplay is in BO1, where its a one hit kill which obliterates the beings body as well. Hardly continental? Nosgoth is either a continent or a planet, either way the EG is enormous (and can make itself far larger on a whim) and far larger than things in Warcraft, it would probably smother even a titan with its size.

wrong, the power of the gun is exactley the same when fired at a tank, the only problem is the resistance of the tank is massively higher than the guns power and it is "resisted". Only in this case, we have Kains power of his sword and seemingly zero resistance from DW. Furthermore the only reason the Hylden Lords soul is not taken is because of the Nexus stone which protects him from the reavers power, Kain uses it agains him to regain the sword in the end of BO2. The EG is an unkown being, it may not even have a soul, we know it absorbs them, eats them and then puts them into the wheel to recreate them as life but thats it. We know it slices through his tentacles like butter.

As I said, timing could also be important, perhaps the light he creates is no more than an Luminous from harry potter or w/e its called and not enough, perhaps his fireball takes too long to cast or he was not certain it would have been useful so he used this dangerous spell which he thought was the strongest he could have performed in the time period he had. Either way this hunger is featless and due to the fact it would devour DW and kain cna escape it with ease its irrelvent, a useless spell in comparison to DS and this melting.

I dont know, can he teleport? if so has he done it in Dragon form? Do we know the plates heat up like this to burn Kain? and as I said, Kain could stand on Deathwing, theres no evidence to suggest a plate covers ever piece of skin DW has, its illogical, there would have to be slits between plates so DW can move, especially on his arms, tail, neck etc. Malygos is a huge dragon, he would be an easy target to strike with the soul, Kain being small has an advantage over Malygos.

Kain puts up his repel shield early on to repel magic back at DW, then he continues on to teleport to escape this melting fate or blasts from the DS and DW physical attacks. He teleports atop DW and fires an incapacitation bolt into DW head, freezing him in time who drops like a rock into the ground below. kain finishes his opponent with one of his soul devouring powers, unless he can claim the DS for himself and use it to blast DW into piecies.

If he teleports around constantly the chance for him to get a killing stricke in imo decrease, never claimed he was. The melten rock in case you might have overlooked it vanished, even if Kain reforms it would still count as a knockout. Yes because mist most certainly could withstand the temperatues that is required to melt a rock.. Perhaps not, it is still a possible option for him, and with the demon soul at his disposal the speed ore effect would be greatly empowered.

It was wounding the elder god that was basically just flesh, furthermore Kain was stricking directly at the eye of the Elder God the most undefended part of the entire body. But the main point is that when the Soul Stealing didn't affect the Elder God the slightest I have no reason to believe that it would affect Deathwing. It might have other usefull abilities but against Deathwing I doesn't see any of those abilities playing a role that could help Kain. Neither has the Elder God yet it managed fine against the Soul Reaver. A single Dreadlord tried during the war of the ancient to affect a Dragon with what I would describe as a soul stealing spell, he failed. And I would assume that the Dragon had no defense at that point of time. So you entire reason for saying that the Soul Reaver steals the Soul of Deathwing is a gameplay mechanic? Let me rephase my question, has the Soul Reaver ever stolen the soul from a healthty being on the first hit (and only stolen the soul)? So you are suggesting that this being http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhLQXcaVM0k That must be some very small continents in LoK, you entire that he can shapeshift his size... Has he ever done that ore are you speculating that he can?

The power/effect of the gun is also reduced then. Deathwing got something that the Elder God didn't have, Adamantium plating around it's entire body and again the Soul Reaver didn't on the first hit Steal the Soul of the Elder God I have no reason to believe it would on Deathwing. I would like to see the quote ore movie clip that points out that the Hylden Lord soul is only protected by a nexus. Sorry but that doesn't automatic grant him immunity, the fact still remains that the Soul Reaver, Didn't autosteal his soul like you are suggesting it's going to do against Deathwing.

That is farfetched imo, Krasus immidiately after the encounter creates light and the Immolation in WotA it also more ore less happens immidiately, you are suggesting that Krasus a old and wise being that is respected by all his collegues in Dalaran thought "Damm I can cast this Fireball spell and Light spell but wait I could also cast this intense and highly dangerous spell that could with a single wrong phase kill me, let me for the fun of it try the one that can instant kill me" Is that what you are suggesting? That Krasus is a idiot? The Hunger is most certainly not featless, It devoured anything in it's path and shown that the counterspell that should have killed it was devoured too, it shows that it feast on anything, magic ore material alike.

Yes he has teleported both in his Dragon Form and without it. Are you seriously suggesting that a metal that is placed next to something that is around somewhere from 700-2500 degrees isn't going to be hot? Do you have anything that suggest that his mist form can be near this level of heat? It covers his entire body, I would say it's just as inlogical as Kain standing on Deathwing. The size of the Object didn't matter it was iirc a Area of Effect spell that simply lashed out from Deathwing, all the blue Dragons around him was instantly killed, while Malygos toke a fly. Q can probably recall it better.

You have yet to provide anything that would suggest that Kain's repel shield would protect him from the transmutation effect. Deathwing got alot more to offer then Physical attacks. I think this is third time it escaped you notice but Deathwing can raise a Magical shield to protect him. Again right infront of Deathwing with the Demon Soul? He wouldn't even have time, secondly a time based attack against a being that holds the power from (atleast according to DotD) the Aspect of time good luck, thirdly in DotD Nozdormu tried with a Time Attack against Deathwing it failed, this was Nozdormy that still according to Krasus could with a grain of Sand erase him from Time and space forever (ore untill Nozdormu bothered bringing him back), none would ever know he had existed. The Demon Soul doesn't have any effect on Deathwing so I don't quite see how getting it would help Kain.

To try and run the same as you this is what I see happen: Kain beings by activating his repel shield (he has a dragon infront of him anything else would be suicide) Deathwing maybe tries a few spells and notice they are being repeled (I personally doesn't think that the Repel Shield is strong enough to withstand magical attack from Deathwing but nvm) and then tries Melting, Kain notices it and teleports away like you say probably on top of Deathwing, Deathwing notices his Enemy is gone unleashes the attack that he used against Malygos even if Kain does go into his mist form it will be blown to the wind litterally, otherwise he will be killed instantly.

Do you care to illustrate what Kain is going to do with the Demon Soul once he gets it (beside enraging Deathwing), Nekros couldn't and he had experience using it, do anything to Deathwing with the Demon Soul in his possession, only look powerless as Deathwing claimed what he wanted.

Originally posted by Utrigita
If he teleports around constantly the chance for him to get a killing stricke in imo decrease, never claimed he was. The melten rock in case you might have overlooked it vanished, even if Kain reforms it would still count as a knockout. Yes because mist most certainly could withstand the temperatues that is required to melt a rock.. Perhaps not, it is still a possible option for him, and with the demon soul at his disposal the speed ore effect would be greatly empowered.

It was wounding the elder god that was basically just flesh, furthermore Kain was stricking directly at the eye of the Elder God the most undefended part of the entire body. But the main point is that when the Soul Stealing didn't affect the Elder God the slightest I have no reason to believe that it would affect Deathwing. It might have other usefull abilities but against Deathwing I doesn't see any of those abilities playing a role that could help Kain. Neither has the Elder God yet it managed fine against the Soul Reaver. A single Dreadlord tried during the war of the ancient to affect a Dragon with what I would describe as a soul stealing spell, he failed. And I would assume that the Dragon had no defense at that point of time. So you entire reason for saying that the Soul Reaver steals the Soul of Deathwing is a gameplay mechanic? Let me rephase my question, has the Soul Reaver ever stolen the soul from a healthty being on the first hit (and only stolen the soul)? So you are suggesting that this being http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhLQXcaVM0k That must be some very small continents in LoK, you entire that he can shapeshift his size... Has he ever done that ore are you speculating that he can?

The power/effect of the gun is also reduced then. Deathwing got something that the Elder God didn't have, Adamantium plating around it's entire body and again the Soul Reaver didn't on the first hit Steal the Soul of the Elder God I have no reason to believe it would on Deathwing. I would like to see the quote ore movie clip that points out that the Hylden Lord soul is only protected by a nexus. Sorry but that doesn't automatic grant him immunity, the fact still remains that the Soul Reaver, Didn't autosteal his soul like you are suggesting it's going to do against Deathwing.

That is farfetched imo, Krasus immidiately after the encounter creates light and the Immolation in WotA it also more ore less happens immidiately, you are suggesting that Krasus a old and wise being that is respected by all his collegues in Dalaran thought "Damm I can cast this Fireball spell and Light spell but wait I could also cast this intense and highly dangerous spell that could with a single wrong phase kill me, let me for the fun of it try the one that can instant kill me" Is that what you are suggesting? That Krasus is a idiot? The Hunger is most certainly not featless, It devoured anything in it's path and shown that the counterspell that should have killed it was devoured too, it shows that it feast on anything, magic ore material alike.

Yes he has teleported both in his Dragon Form and without it. Are you seriously suggesting that a metal that is placed next to something that is around somewhere from 700-2500 degrees isn't going to be hot? Do you have anything that suggest that his mist form can be near this level of heat? It covers his entire body, I would say it's just as inlogical as Kain standing on Deathwing. The size of the Object didn't matter it was iirc a Area of Effect spell that simply lashed out from Deathwing, all the blue Dragons around him was instantly killed, while Malygos toke a fly. Q can probably recall it better.

You have yet to provide anything that would suggest that Kain's repel shield would protect him from the transmutation effect. Deathwing got alot more to offer then Physical attacks. I think this is third time it escaped you notice but Deathwing can raise a Magical shield to protect him. Again right infront of Deathwing with the Demon Soul? He wouldn't even have time, secondly a time based attack against a being that holds the power from (atleast according to DotD) the Aspect of time good luck, thirdly in DotD Nozdormu tried with a Time Attack against Deathwing it failed, this was Nozdormy that still according to Krasus could with a grain of Sand erase him from Time and space forever (ore untill Nozdormu bothered bringing him back), none would ever know he had existed. The Demon Soul doesn't have any effect on Deathwing so I don't quite see how getting it would help Kain.

To try and run the same as you this is what I see happen: Kain beings by activating his repel shield (he has a dragon infront of him anything else would be suicide) Deathwing maybe tries a few spells and notice they are being repeled (I personally doesn't think that the Repel Shield is strong enough to withstand magical attack from Deathwing but nvm) and then tries Melting, Kain notices it and teleports away like you say probably on top of Deathwing, Deathwing notices his Enemy is gone unleashes the attack that he used against Malygos even if Kain does go into his mist form it will be blown to the wind litterally, otherwise he will be killed instantly.

Why? one of Kains dimentional teleports is an actual move that is supposed to strike, Kain uses it to strike many enemies in diffrent places with precision, teleportation will be too much for DW to react or follow to and certainly not use this power on. Mist may not be a viable target at all....

Nexus stone protecting Sarafan lord:
http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/az/nexus.php

Basically just flesh? one beings flesh could be stronger than anothers, and its not just flesh, it was thick tentacles that could pound through stone and survive the weight of the rest of the world as he burrows under it, yet Kains sword slices through it like air. Eye and tentacles. Elder God may not have a soul, its not something that would have a soul, its already an ethereal creature itself on the level of a soul. The EG has not shown soul resistance? Raziel has opened his cowl in its presence many times, the EG does not have a soul, it may be an enormous being made out of some sort of spectral matter ,but its not a soul. What you would describe as a soul steal? a spell as well? sorry but thats not good enough, was it soul stealing or not? no it has not stolen a soul from a healthy being alone on the first hit although in the LOK universe (or at least in BO1), when your soul is ripped out your body explodes even if Kain uses a spell to disect it. So that question is fairly useless. And no, my reason for the Soul reaver taking DW soul is because hes defenceless against soul ripping which the Soul reaver does unless your trying to claim it does not take souls now?

Small continents or that was only the piece of the EG on the old sanctuary, not the piece that is in the swamps, the time streaming chamber, the underworld, beneath the abyss etc etc, and as you see in the video, he multiplies the amount of tentacles he has several times almost instantly.

yeh thats going ot be useful when Kain pushes his sword through a hole in the plating, in a connection point for the arms/tail/neck to move or in Neltharians eye. DW is defenceless and the EG has survived millions of soulike entities sucking in souls around him, you do realise Raziel every time he opens his cowl is like a suction that absorbs all souls within an area around him.

old, respected, wise, has done two spells with the same effect as his "ancient" one. It could just be PIS to make this not so endless hunger seem impressive before its immedialtey defeated. Your inventing this heat based on logic on real life metals, Adamantium is not, also the more dense a metal is, the more heat it can absorb before melting point, I am assuming this Adamantium could take a ton of heat before melting so it may be cool to the touch. Unless theres evidence this adamantium is hot its a moot point. Kain could just quickly apparate in and slash Neltharians eyes, blinding the beast and taking its soul at once.

You are understanding that DS has the element of power Noz and these other dragons draw from, part of their essence which is why the dragons were screwed because DW had a part of them, they could not do much to him because he had their power, but thats not to suggest a time spell from Kain, or anything else from him would be effected, its a diffrent type of spell, from a diffrent source.

Why would he go straight to using the attack he used against malygos? if he cant see his opponent, also I would like to see evidence of this spell, what it can do but more importantly how long it took to cast and what it was like, was it an AOE like you claim or just projected force, maybe DW did not have full control over its use and it was a passive attack from the DS.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Do you care to illustrate what Kain is going to do with the Demon Soul once he gets it (beside enraging Deathwing), Nekros couldn't and he had experience using it, do anything to Deathwing with the Demon Soul in his possession, only look powerless as Deathwing claimed what he wanted.

I dont know, thats why I said "unless Kain can" claim it for himself, I didnt say he could do so, I do not know how it DS is used.

Lol

Originally posted by Burning thought
old, respected, wise, has done two spells with the same effect as his "ancient" one. It could just be PIS to make this not so endless hunger seem impressive before its immedialtey defeated

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/tactical_facepalm.jpg

Should've expected PIS to join in on the party. I would've brought more cookies.

Originally posted by Burning thought

Adamantium is not, also the more dense a metal is, the more heat it can absorb before melting point, I am assuming this Adamantium could take a ton of heat before melting so it may be cool to the touch. Unless theres evidence this adamantium is hot its a moot point. Kain could just quickly apparate in and slash Neltharians eyes, blinding the beast and taking its soul at once.


Adamantium can heat up but it can't be melted, destroyed or broke down unless you have some incredibly powerful cosmic powers or control over magnetism on a molecular level. Adamantium once completed isn't hot at all. If the question is if Kain could affect, break or slice through adamantium then I'll go ahead and say no he can't.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Adamantium can heat up but it can't be melted, destroyed or broke down unless you have some incredibly powerful cosmic powers or control over magnetism on a molecular level. Adamantium once completed isn't hot at all. If the question is if Kain could affect, break or slice through adamantium then I'll go ahead and say no he can't.

It's not the same as in Marvel.

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
It's not the same as in Marvel.

Wow...here's a guy who feels incredibly stupid. I thought ADA only existed in Marvel.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Wow...here's a guy who feels incredibly stupid. I thought ADA only existed in Marvel.

No, in Warcraft Deathwing requested of the goblins to be clad in adamantium plating so that his skin wouldn't melt and his body defeat itself. As far as I'm aware, it's the second most durable metal in Warcraft.

And I was not suggesting he attacks the adamantium at all anyway. DW had his body plated in it because the Demon Soul was destroying his body.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Nonsense and irrelvency just to try and make a counter argument, the Sarafan lord needing a stone is pis? what a stupid thing to say, its not stupidity on anyones part at all...

I'm sorry, but your PIS claim was pretty stupid too. Even I can say that, and I'm no Warcraft adept.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats not what this says, this says the Demon soul caused the corruption:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Dragon_Soul

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/tactical_facepalm.jpg

Wiki!

No your a warcraft fan and an anti-Kain/BT supporter. And I can claim PIS if I wish, youve claimed it in the past.

Go and find a better piece of evidence, Wiki is useful for information on KMC and is marginally better than proofless words by most members.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No your a warcraft fan and an anti-Kain/BT supporter. And I can claim PIS if I wish, youve claimed it in the past.

Go and find a better piece of evidence, Wiki is useful for information on KMC and is marginally better than proofless words by most members.

Never said you can't call PIS ermm You said his PIS call was stupid. I said your PIS call was stupid. That's all there was to it mmm

Let me tell you though, that I love Kain.

I see......chidlike foolery as I imagined so....wish I had a facepalm picture to spam every so often.

Nonsense and thats not clever either.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I see......chidlike foolery as I imagined so....wish I had a facepalm picture to spam every so often.

Nonsense and thats not clever either.

Nothing childish with it. Your PIS claim WAS stupid.

Think what you want of my opinion revolving Kain. Just don't credit yourself with the lie that you've turned me into a hater. Kain is an awesome character, despite you.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I see......chidlike foolery as I imagined so....wish I had a facepalm picture to spam every so often.

Nonsense and thats not clever either.

I'm counting every time you use the word "child" or any variation on it as an insult.

Starting right now, at 7, because I know you've used it at least 7 times by now.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I'm counting every time you use the word "child" or any variation on it as an insult.

Starting right now, at 7, because I know you've used it at least 7 times by now.

I have a genius baby cousin, so being called a child is not an insult to me

Its not an insult at all. I just think its funny that he sees it as one, especially with such a twisted concept of what is childish.

Yeah, I just saw it as an excuse to brag about my baby cousin

He sounds cool. How old is he?

Did he graduate preschool at age 1?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
He sounds cool. How old is he?

Did he graduate preschool at age 1?

Yes. Yes, MooCowofJustice. He graduated preschool at age 1

She is 9. As sharp and perceptive as an adult with a shocking memory Really, I'm pretty sure she is classified as a child genius by psychological terms.

I lost the game. I apologize.

Neat though. I wish I had a genius relative...

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I lost the game. I apologize.

Neat though. I wish I had a genius relative...

You do if you don't have a fear of rivality The child will blossom into an up and coming politician or something. I swear it.

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
Nothing childish with it. Your PIS claim WAS stupid.

Think what you want of my opinion revolving Kain. Just don't credit yourself with the lie that you've turned me into a hater. Kain is an awesome character, despite you.

I think his was more Stupid, you not giving reasons is what leads me to belive it was just a childish jibe and not an intelligent comment with good reasons.

I will

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I'm counting every time you use the word "child" or any variation on it as an insult.

Starting right now, at 7, because I know you've used it at least 7 times by now.

Why would I use it as an insult? I think its a childish opinion, for reasons ive given above, especially the way she displayed it. Your crude obsession with trolling me and trying to provoke/bait me into a fight is also childish

You're up to 10. Keep it up.

Should I count when you quote someone who said childish? That'd put you at 12, in just one post.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I think his was more Stupid, you not giving reasons is what leads me to belive it was just a childish jibe and not an intelligent comment with good reasons.

You're claiming PIS because one of the worlds most talented magicians had to dig into the depths of his knowledge in order to find a way to beat an prohibited spell from times of old. A spell weaved by none less than Deathwing himself.

Really, to me it appears like nothing more than a shortage of proper arguments. When weak men fail, they strike below the belt.
It's been declared a whole lot of times in the past that Krasus is no fool. He would not risk his life if it was not absolutely necessary. You claim it to be PIS because according to YOURSELF, the spell should not be that hard to counter. The fact that you think yourself brighter than Krasus amuse me.

Want me to elaborate even further why I think it's stupid? I can most certainly do at least a few more paragraphs.

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
You're claiming PIS because one of the worlds most talented magicians had to dig into the depths of his knowledge in order to find a way to beat an prohibited spell from times of old. A spell weaved by none less than Deathwing himself.

Really, to me it appears like nothing more than a shortage of proper arguments. When weak men fail, they strike below the belt.
It's been declared a whole lot of times in the past that Krasus is no fool. He would not risk his life if it was not absolutely necessary. You claim it to be PIS because according to YOURSELF, the spell should not be that hard to counter. The fact that you think yourself brighter than Krasus amuse me.

Want me to elaborate even further why I think it's stupid? I can most certainly do at least a few more paragraphs.

I am claiming PIS because his spell is nothing but fire and light, the only reason why he wouldnt use light or fire in seperate ways is either, as I said, casting times or PIS, the guy already said there were other spells he could have used, the counter to the spell being absorbed he only had one more. By the sounds of it the hunger is only dangerous because of what it "could" eventually do if left unchecked, not because its a threat right away, certainly not to Kain in this thread.

Another stupid childish jibe, no wonder I immediatley think most of your posts are from a childs perspective because of this nonsense. Proper arguments? if you had any understanding of either side, this "hunger" is but a small part of it, theres about 3/4 other paragraphs with diffrent arguments and this is one of the more pointless ones debated on the side.

I never said it "should not" I said, it was not because the spell he pulled off to defeat it consisted of fire and light, what was the quote for the spell exactley?

Yes please, elaborate.

12 now BT. But can you do me a favor? When you try to insult someone like that, can you just put it out in the open so its easy to see? I don't like having to read your posts.

Thanks.

I can't believe BT's debating this.

DeathWing has the DS, he stomps.

Youve even said yourself you dont even know who these Warcraft characters are...trollington

No, I've said I don't know much about Warcraft, I know enough, from reading posts, that Deathwing wins. :P

I actually read all the posts in these threads and can make points in threads concerning most of these characters now. Do I understand the grand scheme of things in the Warcraft verse? No. But I don't need to.

I dont think youve read anything much at all, certainly not arguments, youve just counted the number of anti-bt/kain supports and decided its about time for you to hop into the thread and try and make a jibe. You have no idea what either of the characters in this matchup can do.

Actually, I do, there've been /several/ threads featurign Deathwing by now. =P

And lol. Okay, BT, counter the DS?

I debate, not feed trolls, which is why ill w8 for utrigitos to post for a debate. Although you, Moo and the rest of the kiddies can continue to troll this and other threads, ive reported you both btw.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I am claiming PIS because his spell is nothing but fire and light, the only reason why he wouldnt use light or fire in seperate ways is either, as I said, casting times or PIS, the guy already said there were other spells he could have used, the counter to the spell being absorbed he only had one more. By the sounds of it the hunger is only dangerous because of what it "could" eventually do if left unchecked, not because its a threat right away, certainly not to Kain in this thread.

Another stupid childish jibe, no wonder I immediatley think most of your posts are from a childs perspective because of this nonsense. Proper arguments? if you had any understanding of either side, this "hunger" is but a small part of it, theres about 3/4 other paragraphs with diffrent arguments and this is one of the more pointless ones debated on the side.

I never said it "should not" I said, it was not because the spell he pulled off to defeat it consisted of fire and light, what was the quote for the spell exactley?

Yes please, elaborate.

The fact that you are not an Azerothian arcanist decline you the right to make that judgement revolving Endless Hunger. You're saying he beat it with nothing but fire and light, but I'll point out that there was chanting involved as well. How you're missing the point that magic is part of the spell is beyond me.

Q'Anilia earlier said that even a young magician can cast light and fire spells. If Endless Hunger was so easy to beat as you claim it to be, it first of all would never have been prohibited. Secondly, Krasus would not have risked his life taking it on. He could've escaped and informed the world of Deathwing's return, but instead risked his life by preparing a counter spell that was as dangerous to him as Endless Hunger was.

Amateur magicians has cast light and fire spells with a hand gesture. Yet you think Krasus, an elder of the Kirin Tor and on top of that, an ancient dragon is forced to resort to a deadly spell to beat another fatal one. He spoke in an ancient language where a single flaw in the chant would be the death of him. How you can even say that it's just light and heat, I can't understand. Either you're just determined on being right, or you really don't understand Warcraft mysticism.


Now over to the actual PIS case. Deathwing is a world-known betrayer of all life, hunted, hated and currently plotting on setting the planet ablaze. Have the mortal races perish once and for all and rule the planet supreme. The only thing that can prove a problem to his plans, is if someone discover the true identity of Lord Prestor.

Deathwing, intelligent as he is, knows that the only way anyone will learn the truth is to dig into Prestor's past. The only one capable of such a feat is a talented magician. The only place where this can be done, is at Lord Prestor's residence.

To no surprise, Lord Prestor set magical traps. A trap an intruder through the ways of magic would spring. A trap that not even Krasus senses as he enters the residence through his spells. If a plan you've been planning for ten thousand years has a slight risk of being exposed, you guard that plan. As Deathwing did.

Now I ask you: Why would Deathwing, one of the greatest minds on the planet, guard his scheme with a spell any amateur can counter? He wouldn't.
If anyone intrude in his past, there's only one way to make sure everything remains a secret. The intruder must die.

I don't know about you, but if I wanted to keep such a big secret safe, I'm pretty sure I'd use a prohibited spell as well. After all, a spell of such age and with such a threat magnitude, only a few on the planet can do anything about.

Krasus was one of those few, but admitted by himself, if it had grown any further, he wouldn't have been able to stop it either.



So think. Think real hard. Then answer these two questions. The rest of my post can be ignored:
1. Do you think Korialstrasz is an idiot?
2. Do you think Neltharion is an idiot?

Originally posted by Burning thought
I debate, not feed trolls, which is why ill w8 for utrigitos to post for a debate. Although you, Moo and the rest of the kiddies can continue to troll this and other threads, ive reported you both btw.

Curious. I reported you too Quite the report party.

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
The fact that you are not an Azerothian arcanist decline you the right to make that judgement revolving Endless Hunger. You're saying he beat it with nothing but fire and light, but I'll point out that there was chanting involved as well. How you're missing the point that magic is part of the spell is beyond me.

Q'Anilia earlier said that even a young magician can cast light and fire spells. If Endless Hunger was so easy to beat as you claim it to be, it first of all would never have been prohibited. Secondly, Krasus would not have risked his life taking it on. He could've escaped and informed the world of Deathwing's return, but instead risked his life by preparing a counter spell that was as dangerous to him as Endless Hunger was.

Amateur magicians has cast light and fire spells with a hand gesture. Yet you think Krasus, an elder of the Kirin Tor and on top of that, an ancient dragon is forced to resort to a deadly spell to beat another fatal one. He spoke in an ancient language where a single flaw in the chant would be the death of him. How you can even say that it's just light and heat, I can't understand. Either you're just determined on being right, or you really don't understand Warcraft mysticism.


Now over to the actual PIS case. Deathwing is a world-known betrayer of all life, hunted, hated and currently plotting on setting the planet ablaze. Have the mortal races perish once and for all and rule the planet supreme. The only thing that can prove a problem to his plans, is if someone discover the true identity of Lord Prestor.

Deathwing, intelligent as he is, knows that the only way anyone will learn the truth is to dig into Prestor's past. The only one capable of such a feat is a talented magician. The only place where this can be done, is at Lord Prestor's residence.

To no surprise, Lord Prestor set magical traps. A trap an intruder through the ways of magic would spring. A trap that not even Krasus senses as he enters the residence through his spells. If a plan you've been planning for ten thousand years has a slight risk of being exposed, you guard that plan. As Deathwing did.

Now I ask you: Why would Deathwing, one of the greatest minds on the planet, guard his scheme with a spell any amateur can counter? He wouldn't.
If anyone intrude in his past, there's only one way to make sure everything remains a secret. The intruder must die.

I don't know about you, but if I wanted to keep such a big secret safe, I'm pretty sure I'd use a prohibited spell as well. After all, a spell of such age and with such a threat magnitude, only a few on the planet can do anything about.

Krasus was one of those few, but admitted by himself, if it had grown any further, he wouldn't have been able to stop it either.



So think. Think real hard. Then answer these two questions. The rest of my post can be ignored:
1. Do you think Korialstrasz is an idiot?
2. Do you think Neltharion is an idiot?

great so he chanted to make the fire and light...

No you see, you missed my point about cast times and such alongside the fact that the hunger seems more dangerous over time, which is prob why its prohibited it could "theoretically" given time have consumed most of the world.

When has this hand gesture been made? and if so, if he could create the same forces in a few gesture as his ancient spell then that outlines why PIS is the best possible answer, since the spell was not stated to have any other traits, apart from perhaps more intensity.

Thats all it says it is, ime not saying its just light and heat am I, thats what the book says, you want it to be more than it really is.

What knocks your argument down is the first wizard that came through did indeed counter it in what? his second spell or something? sure it may be impressive to you but other than that, obvioulsy it was not as impressive as you give it credit for.

To answer both, i think your looking further into it than the book wants you to, I think that Blizzard are just good writers, want to make interesting events like they do in most books (ive read the diablo series sinwar trilogy, so I see PIS in that as well) and need to hold up some of their story events with interesting situations yet not broken because of a lack of PIS. Theres always PIS when strong powers are involved at some point. This sounds to me like one of them.

I sometimes wonder if Deathwing even has a soul anymore.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
I sometimes wonder if Deathwing even has a soul anymore.

I wouldn't be shocked if he didn't

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
I sometimes wonder if Deathwing even has a soul anymore.

One could wonder that yes.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I debate, not feed trolls, which is why ill w8 for utrigitos to post for a debate. Although you, Moo and the rest of the kiddies can continue to troll this and other threads, ive reported you both btw.

Should I count "kiddies" as "childish" variation?

Edit: Meh, I will.

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
1. Do you think Korialstrasz is an idiot?
2. Do you think Neltharion is an idiot?

Far from it. If this was Marvel or DC, they would have the superpower "Super Intelligence". They are both Azerothian masterminds.

Originally posted by Utrigita
The Stone certainly helped a lot if the canon is that the Sarafan Lord died with one strike. That is pure nonsense, Obviously you have a wrong understand off that PIS actually means, PIS is when Flash doesn’t knock out his opponent in the first page of the Comic, ore when Firelord (Mid level Herald) loses to Spiderman, in this case Plot Induced STUPIDITY would be if Neltharion hadn’t guarded his mansion (to allow Krasus to enter unhindered), then Neltharion would have jobbed for the sake of the plot, Krasus didn’t Job for the sake of the plot, Krasus stretched his abilities and knowledge to its limit and barely survived. As a weapon against Deathwing that is going to kill him in the first strike according to you? No. Is it a great weapon, yes but here it’s up against a being that it’s from my point of view while be lucky if it can damage much less kill Deathwing.

When I came to that part of DotD, there was not a single bit of surprise in my mind. Both Neltharion and Korialstrasz lived up to what's expected of them. Neltharion is smart enough to set a trap so dangerous, that mortal magicians as well as most immortal magicians and even eternal level magicians would die from it.
Korialstrasz would later come to narrate that he in fact had studied the magical arts longer than most, since ancient times. When other dragons had soared the skies, he had studied magic. The fact that Korlaistrasz was forced to bring up a spell that was virtually an unknown is not only a feat worth respecting Deathwing for, but him as well. Both the fact that he knew of this, and that he succeeded in casting it.

Korialstrasz is acknowledged by each member of The Six seperately to be the most powerful in the Kirin Tor. That's not a title lightly given, especially as the Kirin Tor (As stated by Medivh) are conceited as well as arrogant magicians. Deathwing later commendated the mystical intruder of his mansion for having survived the Endless Hunger. Worth mentioning, Deathwing is even tougher to have compliment someone else than The Six. The only other Deathwing has complimented, is Medivh.


Truth be told, if there's any PIS at all in this encounter, it's that Lord Prestor did not have a better concealed past, or worked out. Korialstrasz uncovered more than he was supposed to not due to what Deathwing did, but rather discovered due to the lack of a background.