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Crazy idea, but i was wondering. The perfect being, or a jedi master that is a great fighter? Btw, this is Rule of Two Bane, mid book. And the feats that include manipulation, such as creating a galaxy network of spies, cant be used in this, but all combat feats can.

Bane is not a perfect being at all.

I have always thought this to be a tough match. Mace does have shatterpoint and vaapad which would eneable him to see every weakness bane has along with all the darkside energy bane would use=nothing because of vaapad.

Orbs bane is crazy with a saber but IMO he is too much in a rage and i belive mace windu to be way more level headed than orbs bane.

also GL said only yoda and mace were on Sidious's level in lightsaber combat so it's tough to gauge but I would give it to mace windu 6 or 7/10 times.

Well, the prophecy of the Sith'ari would disagree with you. Bane has been acknowledged to canonically be the Sith'ari.

Originally posted by Incanus
Well, the prophecy of the Sith'ari would disagree with you. Bane has been acknowledged to canonically be the Sith'ari.

um no it wouldnt. just because he iis the sith ari means he was the one to reform the sith order thats all.

Yeah, that... that was a horrible reason. Mace's Vaapad is gonna do wonders against Bane.

What all does Vapaad do anyways? i only know 1 thing, Bane shoots at least 12 lughtning bolts from all angles when he shoots, so it would be hard for Mace to stop it all.

Vaapad took the user's inherent darkness and love of battle and used it to fuel their strength and speed without turning them to the Dark Side (though they came close). For it to be really effective, the user also employed the opponents fury and darkness against them, forming a superconducting loop, which Mace used to defeat Palpatine.

Well, that would certainly SUCK for Bane. But remember, he has the orbalisks. Lightsabers are virtually useless against him.

Virtually, but having Bane's Lightning thrown back at him would probably yield a result similar to (or worse than, really) Worror's little surprise move.

Well, Bane has 12 bolts with 1 hand, so he may be able to block his own lightning. Bot no, Worrors move was far worse, as it amplified it beyond 2 million volts. Normally 1 bolt only contains an excess of 1 million.

Originally posted by Incanus
Well, Bane has 12 bolts with 1 hand, so he may be able to block his own lightning. Bot no, Worrors move was far worse, as it amplified it beyond 2 million volts. Normally 1 bolt only contains an excess of 1 million. I've read that book recently and I don't recall it amplifying by 100%, or at all, actually. And I can't really see Bane blocking his own Lightning here. Whereas the Lightning killed Worror, it won't actually be touching Mace. So Bane is facing a very likely death at the hands of his Orbalisks, which apparently will release a deadly toxin in to his system when they die of "over-feeding" on Bane's own Lightning. Even if Bane survives the encounter due to his bulk and strength, he'll certainly be in no condition to keep fighting (he'll be unconscious).

Well, it was reflected back and went to the other side while still hitting him, so he was hit by 2-3 times as many bolts. That is alot of electricity. What would Mace do when Bane launches a concussive blast, when he LEVELED a Rakatan temple with 1 blast? And what about his force storm? after 1 hour it was extremely powerful. After 20 YEARS, imagine the power of it.

His Force storm was amplified by the other Sith Lords, including Kaan and Kopecz. And Mace was able to telekinetically overturn an AT-TE with ease, used the Force to punch through battle droids, used the Force to hurl away hundreds of droids (I hated those cartoons sometimes, but the CGI one still sucks more) and according to Wookiee, unleashed a Force attack which obliterated droids. Then there's his whole use of Force Crush, and something about his fight with Kar Vastor. I haven't read that book, but apparently there's some serious shit he pulls against a guy bigger than Bane.

I'm not saying this would be an easy fight, but Mace is capable of withstanding Bane and defeating him, especially when he employs a lightsaber style that is completely foreign to Bane.

Force Storm as in the archives on Korriban, on Ruusan that wasnt force storm, it was an ancient sith ritual.

Originally posted by Incanus
Well, that would certainly SUCK for Bane. But remember, he has the orbalisks. Lightsabers are virtually useless against him.

Mace's use of shatterpoint would allow him to see into all of banes weaknesses and exploit them.

Oh that thing with Githany. Was its power gauged, or was it just looked at in awe by the as of yet unqualified Bane and Gith? I really don't see how an undirected swirl of Lightning is going to be more effective than a concentrated blast right at the opponent, especially someone of Mace\s power and speed.

Dude, he did that after 1 hour. There was thunder and everything, and after 20 YEARS of working on it, how powerful do you think it would be?

Not good enough to take down Mace. You might want to ask yourself why he didn't employ such a technique against Farfalla's strike team that was giving him and Zannah such trouble. Because it obviously requires concentration and time to do it. In either of these cases he can afford no such luxury.

Yeah, but say he is able to immobilize Mace long enough using a power he learned from Revan, or Nadds holocron, what about then? Mace would be screwed if Bane pulled a force storm off. He may even be able to change the weather of the planet using that power. Idk. Maybe.

Originally posted by Incanus
Yeah, but say he is able to immobilize Mace long enough using a power he learned from Revan, or Nadds holocron, what about then? Mace would be screwed if Bane pulled a force storm off. He may even be able to change the weather of the planet using that power. Idk. Maybe.

You my friend are what we call a Bane fanboy.

Originally posted by Incanus
Yeah, but say he is able to immobilize Mace long enough using a power he learned from Revan, or Nadds holocron, what about then? Mace would be screwed if Bane pulled a force storm off. He may even be able to change the weather of the planet using that power. Idk. Maybe. The Dark Side of speculation is a pathway to many hypotheses some consider to be infallible.

Yeah, but he did learn force techniques from those holocrons, and Belia Darzu's. He may not have shown them yet, but he has. What Sith Lord would NOT put all their knowledge in their holocrons, which were where they stored all their knowledge? Maybe he learned an advanced form of stasis field that works on powerful force users. Maybe not. But still, it would be a good fight. And if Bane dosnt use lightning, then the Orbalisks would protect him from Maces lightsaber, he could swat it away and decapitate him, like he did to Farfalla. I should quote Farfalla with this, remember, an echani jedi wapons master, and him, empowered by battle meditaition, were fighting him at the same time: "Hes to strong. Both physically and in the force. Its like fighting a force of nature. We cant do this alone." Johun! Sarro! We need reinforcements!" I think that that would be kind of hard for Mace to fight that. Even though Vapaad owns dark siders, Mace would have a killer fight. Btw, both were jedi masters, with an Ithorian jedi master who focused on perfecting his battle meditation empowered them.

Yes true. But Johun was something of an impediment, and Farfalla's graceful style of dueling (most likely Makashi) has nothing on Mace's Vaapad. And in terms of generality, I'd substitute Bane's stalemate against 3 opponents empowered by Battle Mediditation for Mace's Vaapad and Shatterpoint any day.

Originally posted by Incanus
Yeah, but he did learn force techniques from those holocrons, and Belia Darzu's. He may not have shown them yet, but he has. What Sith Lord would NOT put all their knowledge in their holocrons, which were where they stored all their knowledge? Maybe he learned an advanced form of stasis field that works on powerful force users. Maybe not. But still, it would be a good fight. And if Bane dosnt use lightning, then the Orbalisks would protect him from Maces lightsaber, he could swat it away and decapitate him, like he did to Farfalla. I should quote Farfalla with this, remember, an echani jedi wapons master, and him, empowered by battle meditaition, were fighting him at the same time: "Hes to strong. Both physically and in the force. Its like fighting a force of nature. We cant do this alone." Johun! Sarro! We need reinforcements!" I think that that would be kind of hard for Mace to fight that. Even though Vapaad owns dark siders, Mace would have a killer fight. Btw, both were jedi masters, with an Ithorian jedi master who focused on perfecting his battle meditation empowered them.

according to GL's statement that the PT jedi are the golden age of Lightsaber combatants that makes all the jedi in that fight<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<to Mace.

Ok, shatterpoint shows Mace his enemies weak spots right? Well, how accurate is his lightsaber? Can he guide it to a very small joint without a master of battle meditation, and the enchani thrived off Johun being there, it said so in the book. And if he hits the joints, he will think Bane is dead, but Bane would be more powerful from the pain, the Orbalisks would heal him, then Mace would be freaked out how he nearly chopped off the dudes arm2, then he uses that arm to keep fighting like nothing happened. @ xxxpoppunker182 And dude, Tulak Hord would utterly destroy ANY jedi of the era in pure lightsaber combat, as they are probably less than children playing with toys compared to them.

Originally posted by Incanus
Ok, shatterpoint shows Mace his enemies weak spots right? Well, how accurate is his lightsaber? Can he guide it to a very small joint without a master of battle meditation, and the enchani thrived off Johun being there, it said so in the book. And if he hits the joints, he will think Bane is dead, but Bane would be more powerful from the pain, the Orbalisks would heal him, then Mace would be freaked out how he nearly chopped off the dudes arm, then he uses that arm to keep fighting like nothing happened.

not if mace cuts his head off

and shatterpoint points out ALL weakness's believe it or not those orbalisks on him would FALL off of bane if one knew their weakness which shatterpoint shows mace.

and how old are you? you sound like you're 14 and like you just want bane to win so you disregaurd some cannon evidence which makes you a fanboy

Uhhh, i havnt read any of those things that indicate Mace would win, so its more like lack of material evidence. And the only weakness in the orbalisks is electricity, and does Mace know force lightning? i thought not. And I am not a Bane fanboy. Only lack of material, and i read the Bane books.

Originally posted by Incanus
@ xxxpoppunker182 And dude, Tulak Hord would utterly destroy ANY jedi of the era in pure lightsaber combat, as they are probably less than children playing with toys compared to them. A statement that Star Wars' almighty prophet, the divine George Lucas (may he smite Allah's enemies) disagrees with. Nothing is known of Tulak Hord other than Kreia's comment. And as she is an in-universe character giving an opinion, her comment is overruled by a vast majority.

Originally posted by Incanus
Uhhh, i havnt read any of those things that indicate Mace would win, so its more like lack of material evidence. And the only weakness in the orbalisks is electricity, and does Mace know force lightning? i thought not. And I am not a Bane fanboy. Only lack of material, and i read the Bane books.

wookieepedia.com

check this out and consult this site on information on SW characters and come to a conclusion about the outcome of vs's fights before making threads. and whenever you hear about something you don't know of go there and look it up.

here is the definition of shatterpoint.

Shatterpoints were perceived like faults in a Corusca gem. In relation to events, a single "strike," or action, could cause events to transpire completely differently than they might otherwise have. Often, shatterpoints existed for only brief moments, as they could be affected by even the smallest actions. Shatterpoints could also be discovered in the physiology of living beings. Cade Skywalker was able to perceive shatterpoints in Darth Talon, whom he had previously healed from mortal injury. By focusing through the Force on where the healing had taken place, Skywalker was able to see where her old wounds were, and reopen them.

When applied to physical items, shatterpoints worked much in the same manner. An individual would view an item through the Force, noting where it came together and also noting weak points in its composition. By allowing the Force to surge through them into the weak point, individuals could effectively "shatter" the object, causing it to break into multiple fragments. Because the Force granted supernatural ability to those who were adept in its use, materials thought to be near-indestructible were easily destroyed. Such was the case with Jedi Knight Jaina Solo, who effortlessly shattered a disc of pure beskar while practicing the technique under her uncle, Luke Skywalker.

What makes you think Bane didnt learn this if it had been discovered in his time? And i have read Banes wookieepedia, but not Mace's. Wolverine thinks that none of it can be used here. It can, and i know that, but i just havnt read Mace's.

Originally posted by Incanus
What makes you think Bane didnt learn this if it had been discovered in his time? And i have read Banes wookieepedia, but not Mace's. Wolverine thinks that none of it can be used here. It can, and i know that, but i just havnt read Mace's. That's not how we do things with canon. It needs to actually be said that Bane knew of this technique before we can say he did.

@Incanus as to Tulak hord Lucien proved you wrong with canon now let me show you the error of your conclusion.

Kraya is an IN universe character who just so happens to be a master manipulator and a treacherous liar Sith Lord. NOTHING she say's in game is can be taken as infallible accept for the ending remarks on the LS ending and maybe some others.

Mace wins this. As has been said before his skill with Vaapad will easily give him an edge, factor in his shatterpoints and its a victory for Mace.

Beyond that Mace has shown some insane force feats that even would make Bane gasp in awe such as sending hundreds of battle droids away with a push and easily pushing away a AT-TE.

I finally read Maces page, and yeah, he may be able to win. Shatterpoint would be huge factor in getting past the Orbalisks, but what about Banes skill with a lightsaber? And Mace would gasp in awe when hhe saw Bane as a relitively untrained sith (he had maybe a year or so)crush a temple with 1 single blast. While it probably took Mace years to be able to do hwat he did, i think Banes was a little more impressive. And yes, i am losing right now, but my material for Bane is a bit limited. Even with wookieepedia. And Kreia wasnt lying when she said those things about the sith that were entombed upon Korriban, why would she? It wouldnt help the Exile, or hurt her.

Originally posted by Incanus
I finally read Maces page, and yeah, he may be able to win. Shatterpoint would be huge factor in getting past the Orbalisks, but what about Banes skill with a lightsaber? And Mace would gasp in awe when hhe saw Bane as a relitively untrained sith (he had maybe a year or so)crush a temple with 1 single blast. While it probably took Mace years to be able to do hwat he did, i think Banes was a little more impressive. And yes, i am losing right now, but my material for Bane is a bit limited. Even with wookieepedia. And Kreia wasnt lying when she said those things about the sith that were entombed upon Korriban, why would she? It wouldnt help the Exile, or hurt her. Mace being awed at Bane's rate of improvement doesn't mean anything in a fight, since it also wouldn't exist. In fact, both Mace and Bane should be overawed at that fact that Mace has time traveled back to face him---sup with that?


And Kreia was lieing. Even if the game designers didn't intend her to, it contradicts Lucas' statement of the PT being the best of the best of the Jedi Order--ever. In fact, the only way to avoid Kreia lieing in this case is if she is comparing the Ancients to the KotOR era, with no nevermind towards the later PT which is superior to both of the older time frames.

Ok then. But Bane would more likely have been revived than Mace going back in time. Like what happened to Sidious, only with his original corpse. That would be freaky, Bane be brought back to life on Lehon. Or wherever he is buried. I still think Mace would have a hard time killing Bane, dont you?

Definitely, very hard indeed. Bane is anything but lightweight. He's at least 3rd or 4th on the most powerful Sith list. But ultimately, in any evenly set situation which doesn't involve PIS or handicaps---Mace will win.

Yeah, most likely. But Bane still has 1 advatage: Mace may have created Vapaad, but Bane would most likely find a form that he knows to effectively counter it. He knew every single lightsaber form, including Jar'Kai at a later age, as when he went to Tython. But as long as 1 orbalisk is attached to Bane, which Shatterpoint can only break where they are connected, not break the entire thing, but as long as 1 survives, Bane can be stabbed and heal almost immediatly. Dont forget, that Mace would have to hit Bane before he knew he couldnt be killed by a lightsaber. then he would try the rest of Banes body, all while trying to fend off Banes reckless pounding. It would be hard for anyone to do that. Bane has a chance of winning, no denying. and it is a decent chance, Mace just has a better.

Originally posted by Incanus
Yeah, most likely. But Bane still has 1 advatage: Mace may have created Vapaad, but Bane would most likely find a form that he knows to effectively counter it. He knew every single lightsaber form, including Jar'Kai at a later age, as when he went to Tython. But as long as 1 orbalisk is attached to Bane, which Shatterpoint can only break where they are connected, not break the entire thing, but as long as 1 survives, Bane can be stabbed and heal almost immediatly. Dont forget, that Mace would have to hit Bane before he knew he couldnt be killed by a lightsaber. then he would try the rest of Banes body, all while trying to fend off Banes reckless pounding. It would be hard for anyone to do that. Bane has a chance of winning, no denying. and it is a decent chance, Mace just has a better.

Dude to be a master of vaapad( which is maces adaptation to juyo) you must learn and be very well trained in like 4 other lightsaber forms and there is no counter to vaapad's superconducting loop

Dude, Vapaad I know is almost if not purely offense. Bane has masted Soresu and Ataru, which are almost purely defensive forms. I think with his dueling skills, the orbalisks, and his raw power he would hold Mace off till they are both extremely tired.

Originally posted by Incanus
Dude, Vapaad I know is almost if not purely offense. Bane has masted Soresu and Ataru, which are almost purely defensive forms. I think with his dueling skills, the orbalisks, and his raw power he would hold Mace off till they are both extremely tired.

I'm not saying that mace rocks bane easily. This will be a sweet fight but in the end mace comes out on top because he is just better than bane is.

Eh, yeah. Still, there are a few things Bane may pull...... He may gain a new power in the next book that would let him destroy Mace, but we will have to wait.

Originally posted by Incanus
Eh, yeah. Still, there are a few things Bane may pull...... He may gain a new power in the next book that would let him destroy Mace, but we will have to wait.

NO in the next book Bane dies. and until bane learns somthing amazingly awesome that can just kill mace straight off mace will always beat bane.

If wishes were fishes and speculation was fertilization then we'd all be swimming with the three eyed guppies of the Maybe gulf, which runs in to the What If sea.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
NO in the next book Bane dies. and until bane learns somthing amazingly awesome that can just kill mace straight off mace will always beat bane. Source? All i read about the new book is that Zannah senses her time to challenge her master is approaching. Bane is growing old. He may have a 5th book. It has not been shown.

WTF is this sh1T?! Mace gets destroyed.

Originally posted by Incanus
Source? All i read about the new book is that Zannah senses her time to challenge her master is approaching. Bane is growing old. He may have a 5th book. It has not been shown.

He was signed on to write a trilogy thats all I am 99% sure that zannah kills bane in the next book but yes i could be wrong.

I hear a Neb sweet little puppy in the backyard. Gimme a second while I ignore it.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
He was signed on to write a trilogy thats all I am 99% sure that zannah kills bane in the next book but yes i could be wrong.

That's what fans expect to happen. Draw Karpyshyn stated in an interview that he likes to surprise the audience and have things turn out in ways that people wouldn't expect.

Originally posted by OOBAEW
That's what fans expect to happen. Draw Karpyshyn stated in an interview that he likes to surprise the audience and have things turn out in ways that people wouldn't expect.

everything he wants = nothing when it comes down to what lucas arts wants.

lucas arts likes being predictable?

Mace still gets destroyed btw.

Drew will most likely trun it into a cycle or longer, with 5, with Bane making his holocron in the next and dying of old age in a fifth. He clearly showed that he would kill Zannah in Rule of Two, as he attacked her, and she would have died if she couldnt talk sense into him. He is actually more powerful than ever now. As he grows older, and with Darzu's holocron, he will become more and mroe powerful. Zannah will have to use his when he is dead to learn more. He will keep finding holocrons til he is dead. A trilogy will soon be completed to show us our answers.

Originally posted by Incanus
Drew will most likely trun it into a cycle, with Bane making his holocron in the next and dying of old age. He clearly showed that he would kill Zannah in Rule of Two, as he attacked her, and she would have died if she couldnt talk sense into him. He is actually more powerful than ever now.

Zannah eventually kills bane that is CANON.

Originally posted by OOBAEW
lucas arts likes being predictable?

nevermind.

Since when?

Originally posted by OOBAEW
Since when?

Comics bro comics.

Where is your source that says she killed him?

Originally posted by Incanus
Where is your source that says she killed him?

same comics bro or maybe it was jedi vs sith? i dunno I'll look into it more but i'm goin to bed.

Lies.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I hear a Neb sweet little puppy in the backyard. Gimme a second while I ignore it.
Is he actually Neb? *adds OOBAEW to ignore list*

The level of Mace wankery (and PT wankery) in this thread makes me ill. Trying to use a statement about an entire group to prove an individual is above another is laughable. Bane most probably wins.

In a saber fight? Advantage: Mace.

How so?

Vapaad would make a superconductive loop alowing Mace to be far stronger and faster. I have 1 question about Shatterpoint that may change the fight outcome: can it break organic material? if it cant Mace is screwed. Yes, the orbalisks are organic.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The level of Mace wankery (and PT wankery) in this thread makes me ill. Trying to use a statement about an entire group to prove an individual is above another is laughable.

Your condescension is on the rise, I see. Apparently arguing with DS brings the worst out in people; I'll have to speak to him about his possible contagion.

And explain to me how the recitation of fact constitutes wankery.



Prove it.

Bane will win if Mace's Shattepoint cant break organic material, and he cant use it to kill him......... it would make small lines in the orbalsisk, so he would have to take off Banes hands, the his head.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane most probably wins.

If you're trying to impersonate Neb, you should be more like 'Bane would wtflolomglmaomoreinternetslangPWNZORRSS Mace.'

But no, Mace wins.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
If you're trying to impersonate Neb, you should be more like 'Bane would wtflolomglmaomoreinternetslangPWNZORRSS Mace.'

But no, Mace wins. Show me where anything says that Mace's Shatterpoint can break organic material, or Vapaad is his only choice. And that alone wouldnt work to well.

by Incanus
Show me where anything says that Mace's Shatterpoint can break organic material, or Vapaad is his only choice. And that alone wouldnt work to well.

You just don't understand shatterpoint it's not like organic organisms have one spot that if you touch it we just fall apart. It would allow mace to see how the orbalisks WEAKEN bane believe it or not they do have weakness's.

also shatterpoints change and mace would be constantly aware of where bane is weakest ast and exploit that weakness to his advantage giving him a win but it would be an amazing fight to see. can you just drop this now please? everyone on here besides you already KNOWS mace would beat bane let's put this to rest now.

Originally posted by Incanus
Show me where anything says that Mace's Shatterpoint can break organic material, or Vapaad is his only choice. And that alone wouldnt work to well.
In Shatterpoint Mace sees shatterpoints in human flesh allowing him to see were a single strike will easily kill a man.

Only way to kill Bane when his orbalisks are on him are 2 ways that have been stated: Hit him with force lightning, and cut off his head. Mace would obviously see the weakness of orbalisks, but that is lightning. How would he produce it? Other than Bane using his, is Mace strong enough in the force to make it ALL go into his blade and be reflected, because if one hits him, he is dead, which means Mace would have to be about as strong as Bane is in the force. Wait, is he? I know Mace wins 7/10 times, yes. But I just want to know how Mace would exxploit the electricity flaw, and only m1 place can kill Bane without it. Not a very good argument, but it is one nonetheless......

Yeah, but i think Sidious was holding back so he would let Anakin see him "dying" Bane would not have such restrictions. And yes, Shatterpoint IS a force skill, and Bane does have the force barrier at all times. Banes TK powers range to destroying a temple in 1 blast from a few seconds of concentration, to lifting a reanimated rancor off the ground to kill it(i think) And to cast lightning, one must be instructed on how to do it. I am sure Plo was pissed off enough to just do it instinctively, but i doubt Mace would.

Originally posted by Incanus
Yeah, but i think Sidious was holding back so he would let Anakin see him "dying" Bane would not have such restrictions. And yes, Shatterpoint IS a force skill, and Bane does have the force barrier at all times. Banes TK powers range to destroying a temple in 1 blast from a few seconds of concentration, to lifting a reanimated rancor off the ground to kill it(i think) And to cast lightning, one must be instructed on how to do it. I am sure Plo was pissed off enough to just do it instinctively, but i doubt Mace would.

so if someone has a force barrier up no force power works on him......

the only way shatter point would be negated is if someone like caedous ben luke jaina or mara. And i believe sidious did this in rots. was to hide ones presence in the force so you couldn't be sensed. Something Bane doesn't know how to do.

everything else you said is irrelevant to the fight you are just naming off stuff he can do.

Acutally, Bane can do that, as he taught Zannah to, she just learned a more advanced sorcery of it, and she could project a light side aura, not just hiding. Otherwise, alot of jedi would have found them. And no, if the guy attacking another guy with a force barrier is stronger than the other, then it would break the barrier, and still hit him. But I think Bane is more powerful in the force than Mace is......... Is he? im not entirely sure, but i think...........

A by Incanus
Acutally, Bane can do that, as he taught Zannah to, she just learned a more advanced sorcery of it, and she could project a light side aura, not just hiding. Otherwise, alot of jedi would have found them. And no, if the guy attacking another guy with a force barrier is stronger than the other, then it would break the barrier, and still hit him. But I think Bane is more powerful in the force than A is......... Is he? im not entirely sure, but i think...........

Bane didn't know the ability to completely conceal his force presence from other nor did zannah. I know what you are talking about i own both bane books and have read them they do not posess the same ability.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Very well, on second thought I was probably a little hasty in my evaluation. As I recall, I got a little angry when I saw the argument that since the PT was the 'golden age', that meant that every individual of that age must surely be above every individual of every other. And that Shatterpoint will let Mace instant pwn Bane with all his weaknesses. Though yes, DS has rubbed my nerves raw these last few days.
Mace isn't 'every individual,' he's the second best Jedi of the entire age


No, he doesn't. He uses a curved hilt saber along with Djem So.
Guess what? Mace is very familiar with curved hilts

And Jar'Kai is a variant of Ataro, stated in PoD. Point being? Grievous, who knew Juyo, was not able to replicate Vaapad with his moves

And it uses a style Bane will not be familiar with

Why could THAT be...could it be ANAKIN WAS PALPATINE'S SHATTERPOINT AS MACE REALIZES A VERY SHORT TIME LATER?

Or, again, that he can search for one, which won't help him if said Shatterpoint isn't there, which isn't precisely meaningful to the guy with the gaps at his wrists and uncovered head

Great. And Mace specializes in penetrating tight defenses. Notice he can relieve Bane of hand or head


Sure. Bane loses in the pure skill, speed and possibly strength department. He has a large, uncovered target with the guy who also mastered absolute precision with his abilities dueling him

Given Mace's been shown to block the lightning of more powerful beings..

Mmmhmmm.

I'm sure no one needs to explain why this isn't a valid comparison.

The implication is that Grievous couldn't "replicate" Vaapad because he wasn't a Force-sensitive, and therefore was unable to even attempt the "technique of dark flirtation." A few moments of dueling seems to be enough time for him to mimic much of the physical nature of the form, though.This would be an obvious indicator that individuals don't necessarily have to have combat-related shatterpoints, which, if I'm understanding him correctly, was Neph's point. Palpatine's greatest flaw was that he had complete faith in Anakin; that's irrelevant in a situation like the one we're discussing, a versus match.

Bane's "weak places" would be his head, wrists, and ankles. If you want to call those "shatterpoints" go right ahead, but then you may as well note eyeballs, extremities, and genitals to be universal shatterpoints. You wouldn't necessarily be wrong, it just isn't a very relevant conclusion.

You sort of address this in a different segment of your post, which I appreciate, although you do still seem to put more importance on Bane's only exposed areas than is appropriate considering he's going up against someone with no armor.



Aaaaand... I think I've fulfilled my nitpicking quota for the day. I'm not looking to argue anything, I just haven't had a chance to completely assert my control of you people yet today.

Uhh, maybe Banes shatterpoint is Zannah? He is focused on training her till he dies, and that is his ONLY focus. He has no goal other than to train the person who will succeed him. I doubt Mace would hold off both Zannah AND Bane, which it would come to if he tried to kill her.

Originally posted by Incanus
Uhh, maybe Banes shatterpoint is Zannah? He is focused on training her till he dies, and that is his ONLY focus. He has no goal other than to train the person who will succeed him. I doubt Mace would hold off both Zannah AND Bane, which it would come to if he tried to kill her.

i am positive zannah isnt his ONLY SHATTERPOINT u are clearly reaching for any excuse to make bane

u are a complete and utter fanboy

dude, i am only thinking from a few months after reading the book, so i cant remmeber all of Banes weaknesses. I know lightning is one, and so is Zannah, obviously. There is a small joint connetcting the orbalisks that they left exposed, but they cover the other side, so you cant cut all the way thru. That spot dosnt matter then, because the orbalisks will heal him in a second or two.

he could cut all the through because the orbalisks bells isnt lightsaber proof its vulnerable

The orbalisks cover the other side of his arm, so Mace cant cut his arm off, only his hand. The shells would remain on Bane. Even the inside is immune to lightsabers.

Originally posted by Eminence
The implication is that Grievous couldn't "replicate" Vaapad because he wasn't a Force-sensitive, and therefore was unable to even attempt the "technique of dark flirtation." A few moments of dueling seems to be enough time for him to mimic much of the physical nature of the form, though.
I don't see your "implication" at all. What I see is that Greivous is unable to replicate the state of mind which is as important to the form as the moves which the General seemingly leanred.

But it was a good enough replication that he was able to makeMace want to end the fight more quickly.

Originally posted by Incanus
But it was a good enough replication that he was able to makeMace want to end the fight more quickly.
So...
Ironicly the deul is debatable that it even happened as it contradicts the Clone Wars Short series.

its does?

Originally posted by Incanus
The orbalisks cover the other side of his arm, so Mace cant cut his arm off, only his hand. The shells would remain on Bane. Even the inside is immune to lightsabers.

The inside is NOT immune to lightsaber or any kind of blade or blaster. it's like an armadillo.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
The inside is NOT immune to lightsaber or any kind of blade or blaster. it's like an armadillo. see how this in the can kid makes shit up?

No, the inside of the shell. The skin is suceptible, but not the shell. The shell is immune to virtually any weapon.

Originally posted by ~:Mr.Anderson:~
see how this in the can kid makes shit up?

Yeah, I'm also starting to notice that.

ares834
I don't see your "implication" at all. What I see is that Greivous is unable to replicate the state of mind which is as important to the form as the moves which the General seemingly leanred. That's pretty much exactly what I just said.
If I'm reading it right, this is actually correct. I believe what he's saying is that while a lightsaber may be able to penetrate the underside of an orbalisk, it'll still have to cut through the shell on the way out, which it can't.

But I have to ask, how is this relevant? No one's going to be attacking the inside of the orbalisks while they're still attached to Bane.

@ Incanus and Eminence

yes the shell of orbalisks is impenetrable to lightsabers BUT do you know what happens when you KILL the orbalisk? It falls off right after it injects you with poison.

That + the force behind the thrust of the lightsaber blade WOULD cut his hand off.

@Eminence

It really isn't a big deal but I am right so at this point I'm just defending my own honor.

I seem to have swept myself off my feet........

Here is an example of VALID abc:

Mace Windu beat Sidious.

Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu_XLDlDWLQ

Most claim that Sidious is the most powerful sith of all time.

Proof: Read all of the numerous Sidious vs X sith threads.

Question to Bane supporters: If Mace Windu is capable of defeating the most powerful sith of all time, then why can't he defeat the not-most powerful sith of all time? Does Bane have some special advantage over Mace Windu that Sidious doesn't?

Suspected rebuttal: That's ABC!!!!!!!

Rebuttal to rebuttal: ABCs are sometimes inaccurate because A only beats B due to some advantage/circumstance that would not apply to A vs C. For example: A bomber could blow up a tank, and I'm pretty sure that a tank could blow up a bunch of SAMS. Does that mean that a bomber has the advantage over a bunch of SAMS? In this scenario however, A (Mace Windu) beat B (Sidious) due to great skill (albiet not superior to Sidious's), vapaad and shatterpoint, ALL OF WHICH STILL APPLY TO A vs C (Bane).

Conclusion: Mace Windu could PROBABLY defeat Bane.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Here is an example of VALID abc:

Mace Windu beat Sidious.

Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu_XLDlDWLQ

Most claim that Sidious is the most powerful sith of all time.

Proof: Read all of the numerous Sidious vs X sith threads.

Question to Bane supporters: If Mace Windu is capable of defeating the most powerful sith of all time, then why can't he defeat the not-most powerful sith of all time? Does Bane have some special advantage over Mace Windu that Sidious doesn't?

Suspected rebuttal: That's ABC!!!!!!!

Rebuttal to rebuttal: ABCs are sometimes inaccurate because A only beats B due to some advantage/circumstance that would not apply to A vs C. For example: A bomber could blow up a tank, and I'm pretty sure that a tank could blow up a bunch of SAMS. Does that mean that a bomber has the advantage over a bunch of SAMS? In this scenario however, A (Mace Windu) beat B (Sidious) due to great skill (albiet not superior to Sidious's), vapaad and shatterpoint, ALL OF WHICH STILL APPLY TO A vs C (Bane).

Conclusion: Mace Windu could PROBABLY defeat Bane.

Well, it's still not entirely valid because the Sids vs Mace fight was in a closed area and it was a lightsaber fight, not a force battle.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Well, it's still not entirely valid because the Sids vs Mace fight was in a closed area and it was a lightsaber fight, not a force battle.

How wasn't it also a force battle?

Sidious used the force to boost his speed.
Mace used his force techniques to put Sidious on his ass and deflect Sidious force lightning.
Sidious used force lightning.

But Bane would make a concussive force that would pulverize every bone in Maces body if he couldnt protect himself from it to at least a moderate degree. I would say Mace at least 5-6/10 with Bane winning the rest. Very good fight though.

Originally posted by Incanus
But Bane would make a concussive force that would pulverize every bone in Maces body if he couldnt protect himself from it to at least a moderate degree. I would say Mace at least 5-6/10 with Bane winning the rest. Very good fight though.

no darkside energy bane unleashes will touch mace because of vaapad.

Originally posted by ~:Mr.Anderson:~
see how this in the can kid makes shit up?

Do you think I'm making stuff up?

How is a Force Push 'darkside energy'?

But it is not always darkside energy Bane unleashes, as in a spectrum of it he is using force push, which is more of a neutral power. However it is almost always dark side energy. And if Mace's bones are a liquid or jelly, do you really think Vapaad will matter?

Originally posted by Nephthys
How is a Force Push 'darkside energy'?

I actually agree with Incanus for the most part on this one.

Bane using force push isn't the same thing as letting his rage/anger/whatever he uses as his main focus to call on the darkside to unleash a blast that devastating.

So ya I interpret that as a darkside blast.

The bone crushing wave is his form of advanced force push. He used it before he became truly powerful in the darkside. It was in POD. On Lehon.

Originally posted by Incanus
The bone crushing wave is his form of advanced force push. He used it before he became truly powerful in the darkside. It was in POD. On Lehon.

if he called upon the darkside to do it regardless of how powerful in the darkside he is it's still darkside energy.

Originally posted by Nephthys
How is a Force Push 'darkside energy'?

theres no such thing as a "neutral power". the only thing that determines the alignment of an ability is the users intent and his mindset. dark siders use the force by harnessing their hatred and compassion so it doesnt matter what "type" of move it is the move itself doesnt actually require dark side or light energy specifically. thats why luke and mace and that creek freezing guy can use stuff like crush and choke and lightning and still be lightsiders. the type of energy used depends on the users alignment.

bane harnesses the force by using his anger so any force attack he uses will be powered by the dark side.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
... both Mace and Bane should be overawed at that fact that Mace has time traveled back to face him---sup with that?

Ms.Marvel
bane harnesses the force by using his anger so any force attack he uses will be powered by the dark side. Techniques like crush or choke are simply telekinesis used with malicious intent. They aren't composed of "dark energy."

Originally posted by Eminence
Techniques like crush or choke are simply telekinesis used with malicious intent. They aren't composed of "dark energy." Yes he is right. Choke is simply using TK to close their windpipe. You cant use choke to kill someone and not want them to die, or scare them, or torture them.

Originally posted by Eminence
Techniques like crush or choke are simply telekinesis used with malicious intent. They aren't composed of "dark energy."

those are still darkside powers.

Yes, because if you use them you have most likely fallen ,to the dark side, or are a believer in the Potentium. Or maybe you are like Luke ad remade the powers into lighside powers. Kyle Katarn used them, and he wasnt a dark sider. He always used choke and such with the intent to kill(malicious) stormtroopers, and he always gave off lightside energies doing it. The force has no light or dark, it is the intent of the user on how to use them. So if Bane uses the powers trying to utterly destroy Mace, then it is dark side. If he intends to hurt not kill, then it is not. If he intends to kill, but not leave Mace as a pile of jelly, then it is not dark side.(May be a little hypocrisy here but i couldnt think of any other wordings that wouldnt make it sound like it.)

Originally posted by Eminence
Techniques like crush or choke are simply telekinesis used with malicious intent. They aren't composed of "dark energy."

almost none of the force powers in the mythos use actual dark energy but many of them are considered dark side techniques... which further proves my point. what matters is what you feel inside you when you use it more then the actual nature of the technique.

a force push is simple TK but it still involves you connecting to the force itself. so if you connect to the force by using your anger and hatred then imo your force push will still be evil in nature.

Originally posted by Incanus
Yes, because if you use them you have most likely fallen ,to the dark side, or are a believer in the Potentium. Or maybe you are like Luke ad remade the powers into lighside powers.

when did luke remake powers into lightside powers?

The point is vaapad is a superconductive loop of darkside energy and if they are calling upon the darkside to do ANYTHING it's still the darkside and it still goes back at the user.

Electric jusgement is like force lightning, right? he shoots lightning from his fingers....... And Bane has been established as a good duelist, but Mace more so. I htink Mace would win with lightsabers if he could exploint Banes Shatterpoint(s), but in force i think Bane wins.

Originally posted by Incanus
Electric jusgement is like force lightning, right? he shoots lightning from his fingers....... And Bane has been established as a good duelist, but Mace more so. I htink Mace would win with lightsabers if he could exploint Banes Shatterpoint(s), but in force i think Bane wins.

Lukes electric judgement in the last NJO book wasn't just lightside lightning it wasn't even electric judgement it was something completely new.

Oh........ havnt read any books except part of one couldnt keep it for long.......

Wow, I really don't come here often anymore. Excuse me for the late reply.

Originally posted by Kotor3
How wasn't it also a force battle?

Sidious used the force to boost his speed.
Mace used his force techniques to put Sidious on his ass and deflect Sidious force lightning.
Sidious used force lightning.

You always use the force to boost your speed in a lightsaber only battle. Not sure about Shatterpoint, but I think it can also be used in a lightsaber fight (though that would only be bad for the A-B-C as Sids then doesn't use the Force while Mace does).

Sidious only used Force lightning after the fight was over and he was disarmed while Mace used his lightsaber to deflect the lightning.