Darth Bane vs Darth Krayt

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Incanus
Was wondering if Krayt was more powerful than Bane.. Dont think so but wondering............. Vong crab armor vs Orbalisks.................1. Sabers
2.Force
3.All out
4.Stamina

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by Incanus
Was wondering if Krayt was more powerful than Bane..

No

ares834
Why have you created so many god damned Bane threads?

Lord Lucien
Cuz it's the only books he's read.

Incanus
Yeah, pretty much..... Cant get any more =-( Plus trying to make a list in the most powerful sith in history in my mind, and cant figure out where to put Bane............

Vorpal Ruin
Originally posted by Incanus
Yeah, pretty much..... Cant get any more =-( Plus trying to make a list in the most powerful sith in history in my mind, and cant figure out where to put Bane............

Probably somewhere between 2nd and 5th.

Incanus
Ok, now i just have to make the rest of the list......... =-( i put Bandon on bottom.........

bayhunter12
Bane destroys him, end of story.

Incanus
K, i also didnt know how powerful Krayt was, so wasnt sure if he would be able to have at least 10 minutes.............. I was pretty sure Bane would pwn him though.........

bayhunter12
Bane is one of the strongest sith ever so yeah he wins without much of a fight.

Wolverine2179
This is the what? 4th bane thread you created, do you like have a hard on for him?

BruceSkywalker
Hett gets beat down

Incanus
Originally posted by Wolverine2179
This is the what? 4th bane thread you created, do you like have a hard on for him? Read a post earlier how i am tring to compile a list of the strongest sith to exist, Palpatine on top, Bane below but at least 3rd. So stfu.

Wolverine2179
Are you trying to troll? If so then your failing miserably.

I don't see how creating bane spam threads to compile a list of the most powerful sith is anything meaningful but rather it shows your blatant fanwankery of bane.

Sorry spud but bane isn't number one.

Incanus
dude, just stfu Sidious would kill Bane 9/10 times trying to see where Bane fits in among them, and where the others do to.

Wolverine2179
Bane fits in your ass perfectly so thats all you need to know where bane "fits".

Nephthys
banned

Careful Wolvie. Incanus, you should probably report him.

Eminence
STFU.

Who voted for Krayt? That isn't even funny. I demand warningz.

Wolverine2179
Originally posted by Nephthys
banned

Careful Wolvie. Incanus, you should probably report him. Why are you supporting a ***? You should support me instead! Then i'll bow down to you.

Eminence
No, you bow to me.

kotorfan
lol. I don't see anything wrong with creating a few threads to make a sith list...

if something was wrong with that, a mod would have come already. since this is the 4th thread.

and its 4 not 10.

btw I put Bane cuz its so obvious. Bane is almost invincible, unless krayt can electrocute his orbalisks. He took all the force from the 5 or so force pikes and without injury.

Nephthys
You are clearly bashing him, and if it was me, I wouldn't put up with that shit, no matter how annoying I might be.

And I've had guys bow to me before, and its usually just so they get a good angle for a jab to the crouch.

chilled monkey
Darth Krayt wins this one.

He's a Jar'Kai master and Bane has no knowledge of Jar'Kai. He beat Anakin in a duel when he was still a Jedi. He survived the Clone Wars and in his own words, has killed thousands of opponents since then. He also defeated Cade Skywalker, who only survived because his mother shot Krayt in the back.

Krayt was powerful enough to keep himself alive for 187 years, and to slow down the growth rate of the Yuuzhan Vong parasites that were consuming him (true, he had to spend time in stasis to do both). He also reversed Andeddu's attempt to have his armour devour him and banished Andeddu back into his holocron. Heck, it's possible that Andeddu wouldn't even have been able to do that if he hadn't caught Krayt by surprise.

Plus, he rebuilt the Sith from scratch, meaning he would have had to scour the galaxy for apprentices and train them. He also made them completely loyal to him. He had to have been very powerful to keep his apprentices from ganging up on him (which Bane and Revan thought was impossible).

Eminence
chilled monkey
Darth Krayt wins this one.Absolutely not.

Kas'im and Raskta Lsu would beg to differ.

An AOTC-era Anakin. Impressive, but hardly enough to put him up there with Bane. Also keep in mind that he was far younger then than he was in Legacy, and that a post-ROTS Obi-Wan defeated him.

Quotes, scans, names?

Cade is impressive, but he isn't an upper tier warrior.

This isn't relevant.

Again, not relevant.

So indoctrination = superior capability as a warrior?

xxxpoppunker182
Originally posted by chilled monkey
He also made them completely loyal to him. He had to have been very powerful to keep his apprentices from ganging up on him (which Bane and Revan thought was impossible).

Um Wryylok 3 betrayed and killed Krayt so no they weren't loyal. Also the One sith are weak like the brotherhood of darkness.

Incanus
Uhh, bttw the thing about killing alot of ppl. He did, as he became the chief of a tusken clan, and led hem in their clan war with 2 lightsabers................ but Bane was able to kill a sith lord without a pproblem, and never drawing his lightsaber. Qoordis was at leasst moderatly powerful.

Eminence
So he led an army of Tusken Raiders to go kill... farmers.

chilled monkey
Originally posted by Eminence
Absolutely not.

Absolutely yes.

Originally posted by Eminence
Kas'im and Raskta Lsu would beg to differ.

Exactly. When using Jar'Kai, Kas'im beat Bane. Bane only survived because Kas'im stopped fighting to make a little speech (which allowed Bane to nail him with a Force wave attack). Here is a quote:

"The battle was rejoined, but now it was Bane who was in full retreat. Without proper training, even his enormous command of the Force was unable to anticipate the unfamilir sequences of the two-handed fighting style. His mind was flooded with a million options of what his opponent might attempt and he had no experience to draw on to eliminate any of them"

Originally posted by Eminence
An AOTC-era Anakin. Impressive, but hardly enough to put him up there with Bane. Also keep in mind that he was far younger then than he was in Legacy, and that a post-ROTS Obi-Wan defeated him.

Perhaps not, but as you say, he was still a youth when he beat Anakin. He's gotten a lot more experienced and powerful since then. Same with the Obi-Wan fight.

Originally posted by Eminence
Quotes, scans, names?

Quote from Claws of the Dragon:

"I completed training as both Jedi and Sith. I honed my skills in the Clone Wars and I've killed thousands of opponents since then."

Originally posted by Eminence
Cade is impressive, but he isn't an upper tier warrior.

Fair comment, but Cade is a Skywalker, meaning he has the same power as Anakin and Luke. Plus he's beaten Darth's Talon and Nihl.

Originally posted by Eminence
This isn't relevant.

Power in the Force isn't relevant? Since when?

Originally posted by Eminence
Again, not relevant.

See above.

Originally posted by Eminence
So indoctrination = superior capability as a warrior?

Again, power in the Force. Power enough to keep all of his apprentices in line, so that they didn't gang up on him. Something Bane thought was impossible.

Dr McBeefington
Originally posted by chilled monkey
Exactly. When using Jar'Kai, Kas'im beat Bane. Bane only survived because Kas'im stopped fighting to make a little speech (which allowed Bane to nail him with a Force wave attack). Here is a quote:

"The battle was rejoined, but now it was Bane who was in full retreat. Without proper training, even his enormous command of the Force was unable to anticipate the unfamilir sequences of the two-handed fighting style. His mind was flooded with a million options of what his opponent might attempt and he had no experience to draw on to eliminate any of them"
Ah, so you're assuming Krayt is anywhere on the level of Kas'im, for Bane to play around with him until he starts using Jar'kai. Interesting.




This matters how exactly?




Great. How many were force users?




He really ISN'T upper tier when it comes to battle but his raw force abilities are definitely upper tier.




Unless Krayt's is anywhere near Bane's, it's not.





Or the fact that Krayt got a bunch of average warriors and lackeys and the only one who was either as strong as him, or stronger than him, ended up killing him when he had the chance. This is ridiculous logic btw. The two orders train completely different. Bane's order trains the apprentice to surpass the master, Krayt's order teaches everyone to abide by the emperor's orders.

chilled monkey
Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
Um Wryylok 3 betrayed and killed Krayt so no they weren't loyal.

Hang on. A SINGLE guy betrayed him, so where does this "they" come from?

That's one guy, compared to thousands of fanatically loyal followers who would happily kill themselves if Krayt ordered them to. Plus, consider how long One Sith was in existence for. In all that time, they ALL obeyed Krayt until Wryylok 3's backstab. That was the first and only time.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
Also the One sith are weak like the brotherhood of darkness.

There's been nothing to suggest 'weakness' in the One Sith, especially since Wryylok defeated Darth Andeddu, Talon defeated Jedi Masters etc.

Besides, the brotherhood of darkness are nothing like One Sith. The brotherhood of darkness failed because it was built on the idea of its members all being equal. One Sith does not do this. One Sith follows a single leader who is the embodiment of the dark side's power and strength. This is perfectly in accord with Sith beliefs.

xxxpoppunker182
by chilled monkey
Hang on. A betrayed him, so where does this "they" come from?

That's one guy, compared to thousands of fanatically loyal followers who would happily kill themselves if Krayt ordered them to. Plus, consider how long One Sith was in existence for. In all that time, they ALL obeyed Krayt until Wryylok 3's backstab. That was the first and only time.



There's been nothing to suggest 'weakness' in the One Sith, especially since Wryylok defeated Darth Andeddu, Talon defeated Jedi Masters etc.

Besides, the brotherhood of darkness are nothing like One Sith. The brotherhood of darkness failed because it was built on the idea of its members all being equal. One Sith does not do this. One Sith follows a single leader who is the embodiment of the dark side's power and strength. This is perfectly in accord with Sith beliefs.

Ya your right it was just one guy not they

But weakness still stands on the one sith and if you don't remember All the sith holocrons agree with me.

Dr McBeefington
Originally posted by chilled monkey

There's been nothing to suggest 'weakness' in the One Sith, especially since Wryylok defeated Darth Andeddu, Talon defeated Jedi Masters etc.

Yes, a weakened Andeddu, wonderful. There's nothing to suggest any of them are powerhouses either, except for Wyyrlok.

Yes we get it, the 1 sith is a perversion of the ancient sith and the true sith, so what?

chilled monkey
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Ah, so you're assuming Krayt is anywhere on the level of Kas'im, for Bane to play around with him until he starts using Jar'kai. Interesting.

Do you actually know anything about Krayt?

Bane won't get chance to "play around until he starts using Jar'Kai" because Krayt will be using it from the word go. Bane was able to 'play around' with Kas'im because he initially used a double-bladed sabre, something Bane had taken pains to familiarise himelf with. Krayt doesn't use a double-bladed sabre. He normally uses a pair of lightsabres.


Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
This matters how exactly?

He beat Anakin while still relatively inexperienced and has improved a lot since then. I'd say that says a lot for his skill.


Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Great. How many were force users?

Doesn't say.


Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
He really ISN'T upper tier when it comes to battle but his raw force abilities are definitely upper tier.

Fair comment, but remember Cade beat two Emperor's hands. His skills are at least nothing to scoff at.


Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Unless Krayt's is anywhere near Bane's, it's not.

Did Bane keep himself alive for 187 years with the Force? Did Bane do anything to keep the growth of his parasites in check? Nope, he had to rely on a special helmet, gloves and boots to keep them from growing over his face, hands and feet.

So Krayt's power is most likely comparable to Bane's.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Or the fact that Krayt got a bunch of average warriors and lackeys and the only one who was either as strong as him, or stronger than him, ended up killing him when he had the chance.

Bane was convinced that any Master who trained several apprentices would be overthrown because the weaker apprentices would combine their strength to do it, so it doesn't matter if they were average or not.

Eminence
chilled monkey
Absolutely yes.So clever.

And then... ten years happened, and he was confronted by no less than the greatest duelist in the Order herself, an Echani Jar'Kai practitioner who had dedicated herself wholly to the study of the lightsaber and was reputed to have slain more Sith than the thought bomb itself.

He's also gotten older and frailer.

Farmers? Stormtroopers?

Killing a whole lot of random, unnamed non-Force-sensitives isn't especially impressive.

Prove it. Raw talent =/= combat capability. Cade has the former in spades and certainly impresses in the latter, but he's never shown himself to be quite near Bane's level.

It isn't "power in the Force." A Force-sensitive surviving through stasis for over 180 years when an ordinary man (Han Solo) could be expected to live to 120 isn't particularly impressive.

And by this logic, Celeste Morne is the most powerful Force-user in history.

See above.

Either list relevant feats or drop the argument. Krayt has done absolutely nothing that puts him on Bane's level as a warrior.

Dr McBeefington
Originally posted by chilled monkey
Do you actually know anything about Krayt?
Uh seeing as how I have a copy of every Legacy comic, yes indeedy. What is your point?


Go ahead and prove Krayt is anywhere NEAR the level of Kas'im.





AOTC Anakin? really?





Right, moot point then.





Still not top tier unless you consider ANYONE in the Legacy era top tier.





No, Krayt's knowledge of immortality may be comparable or superior to Bane's, which is hardly a valid point, since the apprentices in Bane's order kill the masters. Once again, moot point.




Yet another moot point.

chilled monkey
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Yes, a weakened Andeddu, wonderful. There's nothing to suggest any of them are powerhouses either, except for Wyyrlok.

There was absolutely nothing to indicate Andeddu was weakened. In fact, it would be completely out of character for him to do what he did if he was weakened. All evidence indicates he was at full power when Wyyrlok defeated him.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington


Krayt was first trained by Xoxaan, one of the first Sith Lords ever. If anything, what he did was return them to how they were meant to be. The ancient Sith did not have a Rule of 2. Th Rule of 2 is certainly not a requirement to be Sith.

Plus, I clearly explained why One Sith's philosophy is in keeping with Sith beliefs.

Dr McBeefington
Originally posted by chilled monkey
There was absolutely nothing to indicate Andeddu was weakened. In fact, it would be completely out of character for him to do what he did if he was weakened. All evidence indicates he was at full power when Wyyrlok defeated him.
This is bullshit and you know it. Andeddu was finally in his body after thousands of years. His skills have atrophied. It's actually your job to prove he retained all of his power.



This discussion isn't valid for this debate.

chilled monkey
Originally posted by Eminence
And then... ten years happened, and he was confronted by no less than the greatest duelist in the Order herself, an Echani Jar'Kai practitioner who had dedicated herself wholly to the study of the lightsaber and was reputed to have slain more Sith than the thought bomb itself.


True, but Bane was hopped up on orbalisks which made 90% of him lightsabre-proof, as well as boosting his power. He doesn't have them anymore.


Originally posted by Eminence
Either list relevant feats or drop the argument. Krayt has done absolutely nothing that puts him on Bane's level as a warrior.

* Defeated Anakin.

* Defeated Aurra Sing. (I must admit my knowledge of this one is secondhand)

* Defeated Cade Skywalker.

* Defeated four elite Imp. Knights.

All through skill (as far as I know). While Bane's skills are highly impressive, his victories were mainly due to-

A) Force power (Kas'im)

B) Orbalisks. (Farfalla and co.)

Incanus
Technically, on Korriban Krayt talked to Bane, and Bane said that Krayts order would fail. Banes order failed because of another prophecy that would be fulfilled by the most powerful force user in history. Luke force god Skywalker. And Anakin Skywalker, the one who had the strongest connection to teh force in the old order.

chilled monkey
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
This is bullshit and you know it. Andeddu was finally in his body after thousands of years. His skills have atrophied. It's actually your job to prove he retained all of his power.

No, what's ****** is the idea that Andeddu would start a fight if he was weakened.

Going into battle knowing that you are not at your peak is a very stupid thing to do and Andeddu was not a stupid guy. He was also a coward.

So why would someone who was both intelligent and cowardly do something as out of character as start a fight when weakened?

The only way he would ever start a fight is if he was at full strength. There's your proof right there.

Incanus
Nah, Andeddu was thinking he would confuse Wyrrlok or something, and stab him. Wyrrlok was just able to make the vision turn on Andeddu thru some skill in manipulation.

chilled monkey
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Uh seeing as how I have a copy of every Legacy comic, yes indeedy. What is your point?

My point is that you were saying Bane would be able "to play around with him until he starts using Jar'kai," meaning you are saying Krayt won't be using Jar'Kai at the start of the fight. That's what you're saying.

When in fact Krayt WILL be using Jar'Kai at the start since that's his preferred style.

So why, if you "have a copy of every Legacy comic" would you say something as ridiculous as "until he starts using Jar'Kai"?


Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Go ahead and prove Krayt is anywhere NEAR the level of Kas'im.

Go ahead and prove that Krayt will start the fight with a double-bladed sabre (which he won't).

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
AOTC Anakin? really?

Yep.

Dr McBeefington
i'm not going to respond to you until you learn to include the whole argument in a single post, rather than making 4-5 separate posts.

Eminence
Going through your "argument" point by point would be a waste of time, so I'll make this concise:

Krayt has no lightsaber or Force feats that compare to Bane's. There are no accolades from either characters in-universe or narration that attribute to him any terrific power or skill.

You have no case.

chilled monkey
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
i'm not going to respond to you until you learn to include the whole argument in a single post, rather than making 4-5 separate posts.

Suit yourself. I'll take that as my win then.

Originally posted by Eminence
Going through your "argument" point by point would be a waste of time, so I'll make this concise:

Krayt has no lightsaber or Force feats that compare to Bane's. There are no accolades from either characters in-universe or narration that attribute to him any terrific power or skill.

You have no case.

Spud, if you had bothered to read my previous posts you would know I've already answered this one, but if you insist;

Krayt has beaten opponents through lightsabre skill. See previous post for details.

Bane has beaten opponents mainly through factors other than lightsabre skill (Force power and orbalisks).

Plus, he is WAY more experienced than Bane.

Dr McBeefington
Originally posted by chilled monkey
Suit yourself. I'll take that as my win then.

Don't make me have to agree with Faunus. Why the hell would you put me in that position?

chilled monkey
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Don't make me have to agree with Faunus. Why the hell would you put me in that position?

It's nothing personal. Just the way things happened to go.

Dr McBeefington
Ok well then you don't have any kind of an argument. Move along now.

Eminence
chilled monkey
Suit yourself. I'll take that as my win then.Uh, no. You have to actually be right to be cocky.

That'd be my domain.

Your previous posts were addressed multiple times apiece.

Even assuming that Krayt is more technically skilled than Bane, he isn't remotely as powerful in the Force. That is why he loses, because he has no defense whatsoever against someone so overwhelmingly more powerful.

Yeah...

Who cares? Most of his "experience" consists of fighting battle droids , farmers , and unnamed, unidentified nobodies. His leadership of the Sith is completely irrelevant.

Bane, as I've shown in previous posts, has defeated several quality opponents. The fact that he abuses the power of the orbalisks isn't a point against him, it's a point in his favor.

Spud, you have no case.

chilled monkey
Originally posted by Eminence
Even assuming that Krayt is more technically skilled than Bane, he isn't remotely as powerful in the Force. That is why he loses, because he has no defense whatsoever against someone so overwhelmingly more powerful.

Kas'im pointed out that a more skilled duellist can beat a foe more powerful in the Force (just look at Grievous).


Originally posted by Eminence
Bane, as I've shown in previous posts, has defeated several quality opponents. The fact that he abuses the power of the orbalisks isn't a point against him, it's a point in his favor.


But he doesn't have orbalisks anymore.

Dr McBeefington
Originally posted by chilled monkey
Kas'im pointed out that a more skilled duellist can beat a foe more powerful in the Force (just look at Grievous).
Which proves what exactly? Faunus didn't say Krayt was more skilled. He said that even if he was, it still doesn't help your argument.






So?

Incanus
Bane is still highly skilled in all forms of lightsaber combat that involve the use of a singe blade saber. He can effectivly use double blade also, as he taught Zannah to do it. He most likely would be able to effectivly use Jar'Kai by then end of the new book, as he fought 2 powerful people using it.

kotorfan
That doesn't make sense.

So just by fighting with someone who uses a certain style means Bane learns it?

Its like saying I am know how to use the character Metaknight in Brawl, because I fought against someone who knew how to use Metaknight.

Or

I know how to hack a psp, because I've played on a hacked psp.

Dr McBeefington
Originally posted by kotorfan
That doesn't make sense.

So just by fighting with someone who uses a certain style means Bane learns it?

Its like saying I am know how to use the character Metaknight in Brawl, because I fought against someone who knew how to use Metaknight.

Or

I know how to hack a psp, because I've played on a hacked psp.

Yea, the time he spent with Kas'im enabled Bane to learn the style from the absolute best. And that comparison is invalid.

Eminence
chilled monkey
Kas'im pointed out that a more skilled duellist can beat a foe more powerful in the Force (just look at Grievous).This is the second time you've tried this; I'm not going to repeat myself again. Every point you've brought up has been dealt with. You have no case, concede graciously.

Incanus
I think he was referring to the end of ROT when teh orbalisks are taken off Bane so Caleb can heal him. And after the temple incident with Kas'im, Bane would have made it a point to learn Jar'Kai so he wouldnt be killed the next time he fought someone using it. Bane also learned every style from Kas'im because Kas'im was pretty much the only teacher that would teach him, and so he taught Bane a whole bunch of lightsaber ****.

WollfMyth
Darth Bane impressed me more. He is the better duelist and more skilled with telekinesis. Krayt might be equal to him in Force Lightning.

Stigma
Necro, much? stick out tongue

carthage
Krayt easily

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