Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Iceman, Maverick and Cpt. Steven Hiller are on patrol one day and run across this dogfight:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t511446.html

Hiller, piloting his F/A-18 Hornet, is in command of Maverick and Iceman, who are piloting their F-14's with Slider and Goose. Hiller sees the alien craft and orders a retreat before the 4 way dogfight combatants see them.

Too late.

Ironman, Jango, Star scream and Vader, all at once, turn their attention to Hiller and his two wingmen.

Hiller, Iceman and Maverick are on the run. They are over a vast desert, with narrow canyons all around. Can they escape and report back to base?

To make things fair, all aircraft here have the same top speed, all are fully fueled and armed, and there are no shields.

Considering Iron Man made a mockery of two F-22 Raptors, far more advanced than the planes in either movie, and could have wiped them out had he decided to use available weaponry, I'd say the pilots are dust.

Especially when you consider Starscream did take a few of them out.

Iron Man took one out accidentally, no less. Their guns didn't bother him and a tank missile didn't do much, so I don't see why plane ones would. Besides, he has flares, as demonstrated.

Iron Man takes them solo.

End.

-AC

ACs right.

Besides.

It'll just be Hiller vs the other side, as Iceman and Maverick'll still be in the showers together or volleyballing in slowmotion together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyN8VN4BSzM








But at least Hiller could set Goose's corpse on fire and throw it out the back of the plane using it as a chaffe flare, delaying his demise a few seconds longer.

You gotta remember that all aircraft have the same max speed, the pursuers must outpilot their prey.

No we dont.

Starscream is WAY faster.

Baymovie Starscream is fast enough to travel between earth and Cybertron/mars etc in very little time.
(Besides f-14s and f-18s have different speeds.)


Hiller is dead.
Jeff Goldblum and his 1995 laptop cannot save him now.


This should have been in the "One sided fights" thread.

Um, yes you do, max speed is the same for all the aircraft, read the OP.

I did **** up putting Mav and Ice in F-14's, although they will have the same max speed, they are slow in manuevering. Lets Replace Iceman with Viper, and put the three pilots in a couple of those quick ass MIG's, the ones in the Top Gun end battle.

Yet you put Starscream (Much faster) in....then try to strip him of all you can.... Gimpboy.



Well the F-22, Starscream outspeeds and manuvures the f14s and f18 and partly transformed, rips their wings off and laughs as the plane crashes to earth. The end.

Read the MVF rules, #7 in particular, I am free to handicap as much as I please.

All aircraft have the same max speed. Hiller, Viper and Mav are in the fast and quick MIG's.

Then f*** this thread, man.

Gimped to pointlessness.

Yeah not really, forces IM, SS, Vader and Jango to rely on their piloting skills instead of their superior craft.

Regardless. Its too gimped away from logic.

And thats a silly thing to say, because Starscreams pilots himself.

And he'd out pilot the humans as easily. As would Ironman.
Anakin or vader could rip the wings off....

So it really changes nothing, but comes across as a spite gimp that fails..

SS has gotta catch them first, he can't chase them down with speed, he must outfly them. And let's get real, Viper, Mav and Hiller are all Top Guns, they won't be easy prey.

No force magic here, just piloting for Vader.

Do me a favor, if all you are gonna do is scream gimp ahoy, then dont post here. No MVF rules are being broken, nothing is out of order.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
SS has gotta catch them first, he can't chase them down with speed, he must outfly them. And let's get real, Viper, Mav and Hiller are all Top Guns, they won't be easy prey.

No force magic here, just piloting for Vader.

Do me a favor, if all you are gonna do is scream gimp ahoy, then dont post here. No MVF rules are being broken, nothing is out of order.

To think you moan when people call you out on your lack of logic, I swear.

"They're all Top Guns.". Yes, because they sent Pee Wee Herman after Iron Man, and Starscream clearly took out inexperienced rookies...(Sarcasm).

Stop being so ridiculous. Here, I know, I'll get the "You can't post without insulting.". You know what? You deserve it here, and I hope Impediment sees what dumb things the Vs forum thread rules cause.

"They're all better, but I'm making them shitter so it's a fair fight.", which it isn't anyway. They'd still win.

Seriously, Pete. What's the point? The point of Vs threads is for fun discussion, but not at the cost of intelligence. If the best way you can come up with a thread is retarded gimping, then don't create any.

"Starscream can't fly as fast because I say so.", what? Dumb. Yet, we're the ones who have to leave the thread? Why not just stop making dumb threads?

Definitely taking this to Impediment. I advise anyone else who feels this kind of gimping is pathetic to do the same.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
To think you moan when people call you out on your lack of logic, I swear.

"They're all Top Guns.". Yes, because they sent Pee Wee Herman after Iron Man, and Starscream clearly took out inexperienced rookies...(Sarcasm).

Stop being so ridiculous. Here, I know, I'll get the "You can't post without insulting.". You know what? You deserve it here, and I hope Impediment sees what dumb things the Vs forum thread rules cause.

"They're all better, but I'm making them shitter so it's a fair fight.", which it isn't anyway. They'd still win.

Seriously, Pete. What's the point? The point of Vs threads is for fun discussion, but not at the cost of intelligence. If the best way you can come up with a thread is retarded gimping, then don't create any.

"Starscream can't fly as fast because I say so.", what? Dumb. Yet, we're the ones who have to leave the thread? Why not just stop making dumb threads?

Definitely taking this to Impediment. I advise anyone else who feels this kind of gimping is pathetic to do the same.

-AC

Agreed.

Also: RJ. Starscream was never shown at his gimped air speed in the movies and your weird little scenario is in conflict with canon.

And "All i wanna do is scream gimp ahoy..?"
No. Rj. I explained that Starscream would (unless placed at a gimped distance from the planes, would destroy them, anyway.
Human pilots cannot make the sort of G turns and maneuvers that Starscream can, and Starscream has faster reactions and better weaponry too.)

The funny thing is, if you go to the rules thread you'll see complaints about Peter regarding his insistence in ignoring what happens in the movies, and trying to change them.

This isn't new.

-AC

Sadly not.



Just to make it official...
http://www.fastfancydress.co.uk/templates/imagedirectory/maniac%20mask%20lg.jpg

Total mismatch. I'd like to think that each of my team could solo.

I say they all die.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Total mismatch. I'd like to think that each of my team could solo.

I say they all die. I'd say Mav dies, Viper stands a 50/50 chance, but Hiller, I'd say he stands a better than average chance.

If 2 die through being within ungimped range all three are dead, regardless of who is slightly better than who.

Its like saying "who is the best corpse", in this instance.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t478590.html

7) When the thread starter makes a new thread, it is very important to cement the conditions of the scenario in the first few posts. This is to avoid cunfusion and frustration among the other posters. It will not be acceptable for the thread starter to randomly change the conditions of the thread at random intervals. Once the settings/weapons/gear/handicaps/abilities/etc have been cemented in the first few posts of the thread, that is how they will stay. Therefore, be very sure and for certain of how you want your thread to be constructed.

settings/weapons/gear/handicaps/abilities/etc


handicaps

*Yawn.*

Smuggly quoting rules that you cried all week to get bought in doesnt make you look any less of a tool here, when trying to justify its use.

However. If those are the rules, then we must be allowed non-RJ fantasy bias versions of the thread in question for non-shitty-bias reasons. Otherwise you would be allowed to gimp every possible matchoff, which of course, is WAY beyond retarding the quality of the board..

Cry me a river, *****. If you are gonna continue crying about this, then go to every single thread in the MVF where a combatant has been handicapped and say the same shit.

Accept the fact that your thread severely sucks and is totally unworkable.

This thread has been two pages of showing how much it fails.

-AC

Whatever, you have addressed Impediment, as have I, lets wait and see what his decision is.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Cry me a river, *****. If you are gonna continue crying about this, then go to every single thread in the MVF where a combatant has been handicapped and say the same shit.

You're the one crying that SS needs gimping.

Cried that Hogwarts were getting slaughtered too quickly.. etc

Now you cry when your Top Gun heroines are annihilated too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQWUZ8a2Ho&feature=PlayList&p=37CF8FD98C885CFE&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=102
Pussy.

OK man, whatever you say.

Yeah man whatever YOU say..

(Means he was fixated on playing with kids, living in a land of make believe and never matured to having an adult penis, also, but you'll have overlooked that, naturally.)

Immortal. lolz

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not referring to you as Peter Pan entirely, only because you never want to grow up. Not his other traits. Obviously you aren't a skilled, immortal, flying swordsman who can do anything.

I actually find it disturbing I had to explain this to a man with nearly four decades on the clock. Seriously. You didn't get that at the start, Pete?

-AC Nah, you referred to me as Peter Pan, so I'll accept it fully and assume all his powers.

You just made my day.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Nah, you referred to me as Peter Pan, so I'll accept it fully and assume all his powers.

You just made my day.

That desperate flip-flopping reminds me of a fish. Hmm, fish.

Now, you're Ariel from The Little Mermaid.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Nah, you referred to me as Peter Pan, so I'll accept it fully and assume all his powers.

You just made my day.


*has buttsex with RJ because AC expects it*



Edit- If he's some hot, barely clothed chic from mythos, then I'll be glad to **** em. The bewbz are more than big enough to squeese together.


Double edit - This is me, sploogin in her butt:


http://thetorchonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/little_mermaid-the_metaphor_is_obvious.jpg


I provided the pics, so it DID happen. I win the internetz.

Thus proving the only thing Ariel's threads are good for.

My work is done. Next time, create a better thread.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Thus proving the only thing Ariel's threads are good for.

My work is done. Next time, create a better thread.

-AC

Did you like the splooge in the butt pic? I laughed pretty hard. ahhhh...

Originally posted by dadudemon



*has buttsex with RJ because AC expects it*



Edit- If he's some hot, barely clothed chic from mythos, then I'll be glad to **** em. The bewbz are more than big enough to squeese together.


Double edit - This is me, sploogin in her butt:


http://thetorchonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/little_mermaid-the_metaphor_is_obvious.jpg


I provided the pics, so it DID happen. I win the internetz.

You do indeed on this day.
Hard to beat, that.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That desperate flip-flopping reminds me of a fish. Hmm, fish.

Now, you're Ariel from The Little Mermaid.

-AC Nah, I answer to RJ or Pete.

New scenario...

All are flying F22's, all can achieve the same max speed as SS, all can maneuver like SS.

Even playing field.

Okay, the human pilots die because of the G forces involved.

Also SS's superiority and natural experience at moving and controlling speeds.... Being able to transform and attack with other worldy weapons. That along with his ability to take hits from human weapons and be intact all make him superior.

They're not the same, though.

Starscream is more advanced and more intelligent. He's also much faster.

The Earth F-22s are just not as close.

Iron Man would solo them. It's a dumb thread, man.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Nah, I answer to RJ or Pete.

Then I guess that's a WHOLE lot of dodging you're gonna be doing! Not gonna look good.

Hell, you're probably not even gonna reply to this, Ariel. That's more to do with me being right than anything else though, Ariel.

-AC

Dude, maneuvering like SS means they can do all the same shit he can, damn the G forces.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude, maneuvering like SS means they can do all the same shit he can, damn the G forces.

Why do you just ignore stuff, like an idiot?

They CAN'T maneuver like Starscream, that's the whole point. They literally couldn't, scientifically impossible. He's an alien, he isn't affected by g-force. They are.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why do you just ignore stuff, like an idiot?

They CAN'T maneuver like Starscream, that's the whole point. They literally couldn't, scientifically impossible. He's an alien, he isn't affected by g-force. They are.

-AC

Me saying they can maneuver the same means just that, they can maneuver the same. Besides, The human pilots are gonna take to the canyons obviously, hardly a place for all out speed.

Well, to be fair, SS doesn't get to participate in this. It wouldn't be fair. It would be a mismatch.


Only humans get to participate.


Stark is smarter than all of them.

He wins there.

Anaking is the best all around...being second in smarts to Stark, and the best pilot out of the humans.

From there...you guys can take your pics.

What dogfight feats does SS have?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude, maneuvering like SS means they can do all the same shit he can, damn the G forces.

Nope. The. G. Forces. Would. Kill. Them.

Manuvering like Starscream...?

Where are the planes you mention shown being a transformer like SS is...? Im afraid you make no sense here.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
What dogfight feats does SS have?


Seriously...?

Watch the 1st TFs bay movie. I believe he took out 6-plus f22s single handedly in both Plane and Robot modes then quickly back to plane mode.

RJ,


They do have a point about the F-22s.


They can literally pull g's and manuvers that WOULD kill a human, if they were in the cock pit.

I saw this on future weapons. They actually put limiters on the F-22 to keep pilots from killing themselves with it's awesome maneuvers.


It is literally so sturdy that a pilot could try their hardest to cause the craft to sheer, and it wouldn't. Wouldn't even crack. That's how beastly this planes are. That's also why the cost billions of dollars.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Me saying they can maneuver the same means just that, they can maneuver the same. Besides, The human pilots are gonna take to the canyons obviously, hardly a place for all out speed.

No, it doesn't, because they can't. Sorry. It doesn't. It's nonsensical and dumb, and so are you for suggesting it.

As for dogfight feats, he took out about three or four F-22s in the first movie.

Besides, what the f*ck is a "dogfight feat"? You've been in a dogfight or you haven't? We don't need to know much more than Starscream being a massively advanced organism that would outclass, speed, maneuver and fight the rest of them.

Fact.

Originally posted by dadudemon
RJ,


They do have a point about the F-22s.


They can literally pull g's and manuvers that WOULD kill a human, if they were in the cock pit.

I saw this on future weapons. They actually put limiters on the F-22 to keep pilots from killing themselves with it's awesome maneuvers.


It is literally so sturdy that a pilot could try their hardest to cause the craft to sheer, and it wouldn't. Wouldn't even crack. That's how beastly this planes are. That's also why the cost billions of dollars.

None of that is true here because he says it's not.

That's literally what he just told me.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Me saying they can maneuver the same means just that, they can maneuver the same.

Nonsense.

-AC

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, to be fair, SS doesn't get to participate in this. It wouldn't be fair. It would be a mismatch.


Only humans get to participate.


Thats definitely where RJ Fu**ed up.

As I said despite all his gimping attempts, it really should have been in the mismatches thread.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, it doesn't, because they can't. Sorry. It doesn't. It's nonsensical and dumb, and so are you for suggesting it.

As for dogfight feats, he took out about three or four F-22s in the first movie.

Besides, what the f*ck is a "dogfight feat"? You've been in a dogfight or you haven't? We don't need to know much more than Starscream being a massively advanced organism that would outclass, speed, maneuver and fight the rest of them.

Fact.



None of that is true here because he says it's not.

That's literally what he just told me.



Nonsense.

-AC You know, you made the choice to post here, not us. How hard is it to just ignore the thread if you don't approve? I mean, what motivates a person like you to talk the shit that you do?



Fact?

Here's some facts:

MY thread.

MY conditions.

NOT yours.


The human pilots can go as fast and manuever the same as SS, FACT.

They are all flying the same type of F22's, which means all aircraft can perform equally, FACT.

No amount of complaining will change these FACTS.



Dogfight feat is Hiller outflying the alien in ID4, it is Maverick facing off against six MIG's, it is Viper and Maverick's Dad facing off against so many MIG's they couldn't count them.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You know, you made the choice to post here, not us. How hard is it to just ignore the thread if you don't approve? I mean, what motivates a person like you to talk the shit that you do?

I wonder when you're gonna say the same shit to Dadudemon, who has said the same things of your F-22 boosting/Starscream gimping as we have; that it's not possible.

Oh, you're not, are you?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Fact?

Here's some facts:

MY thread.

MY conditions.

NOT yours.

The human pilots can go as fast and manuever the same as SS, FACT.

FACT that this is a stupid gimp decision and therefore removes any credibility from you or the thread, thus it deserves to be closed the second a mod gets to see it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
They are all flying the same type of F22's, which means all aircraft can perform equally, FACT.

Ariel, Starscream doesn't FLY an F-22, he is a Cybertronian alien in the visual form of one, not with the same performance as one, you complete cretin.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No amount of complaining will change these FACTS.

My thoughts exactly.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dogfight feat is Hiller outflying the alien in ID4, it is Maverick facing off against six MIG's, it is Viper and Maverick's Dad facing off against so many MIG's they couldn't count them.

Yeah, and all of that means crap against the fact that Starscream would wipe them out, so would Iron Man. Solo.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You know, you made the choice to post here, not us. How hard is it to just ignore the thread if you don't approve? I mean, what motivates a person like you to talk the shit that you do?



Fact?

Here's some facts:

MY thread.

MY conditions.

NOT yours.


The human pilots can go as fast and manuever the same as SS, FACT.

They are all flying the same type of F22's, which means all aircraft can perform equally, FACT.

No amount of complaining will change these FACTS.



Dogfight feat is Hiller outflying the alien in ID4, it is Maverick facing off against six MIG's, it is Viper and Maverick's Dad facing off against so many MIG's they couldn't count them.

Maverick wasnt alone. Fact.

Migs aint shit next to an F22. Fact. (let alone an alien that can fly between planets in like hours.)

Human pilots cant endure what Starscream can aerodynamically.

Its BULLSHIT that human pilots can cope with what SS can.

Hiller doing all that shit toward the end was in zero g.
I'll say that again: Zero G. And there arent inertial dampeners like there must've been in ID4.

No Hillar's squadron earlier in the movie cried as they were torn apart.

Because no matter how orgasmically you say he flew, earth ships cant deal with shielding.

By the way, RJ that "My thread not yours" tantrum was pure netsuicidez.

That's what's funny.

Ariel will sit there telling me that the world revolves around me, or so I think. Yet, he reduces himself to "No! MY THREAD! I DECIDE!", like a child with toys.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri


I wonder when you're gonna say the same shit to Dadudemon, who has said the same things of your F-22 boosting/Starscream gimping as we have; that it's not possible.

Oh, you're not, are you?



FACT that this is a stupid gimp decision and therefore removes any credibility from you or the thread, thus it deserves to be closed the second a mod gets to see it.



Ariel, Starscream doesn't FLY an F-22, he is a Cybertronian alien in the visual form of one, not with the same performance as one, you complete cretin.



My thoughts exactly.



Yeah, and all of that means crap against the fact that Starscream would wipe them out, so would Iron Man. Solo.

-AC Wow, you are so full of anger. All that hot air, all the insults, how's that chip on your shoulder? Do you feel better? Hmm? I know I do, laughter is the best medicine for the soul, and you do make me laugh.

DDM doesn't come off to me with the air of superiority that you do. He doesn't throw insults around like you do. He is quite pleasant to talk to, unlike you, Mr. Pewpy pants.

Do you sign on here rubbing your hands together, a shit eating grin on your face, just aching to get in the shit? You have this impression of me, an immature, clueless dolt, but I gotta tell you, if being like you is what it takes to have a clue, to not be an immature idiot, have at it, I want no part of it. I can't imagine living with myself like that, I'd sooner eat a bullet.

Still didn't answer what motivates you to be such an angry little cuss. Breast feeding issues? Dropped on your head as a child?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Maverick wasnt alone. Fact.

Migs aint shit next to an F22. Fact. (let alone an alien that can fly between planets in like hours.)

Human pilots cant endure what Starscream can aerodynamically.

Its BULLSHIT that human pilots can cope with what SS can.

Hiller doing all that shit toward the end was in zero g.
I'll say that again: Zero G. And there arent inertial dampeners like there must've been in ID4.

No Hillar's squadron earlier in the movie cried as they were torn apart.

Because no matter how orgasmically you say he flew, earth ships cant deal with shielding.

By the way, RJ that "My thread not yours" tantrum was pure netsuicidez.

Iceman was there, he took out one damn MIG, big deal.

I was talking about when Hiller took to the canyons, not when he was in space.

No shields, OP.

I was just saying that you guys can ***** and moan all you want, not gonna change the conditions.

Shit thread then.


Hiller lost his ship. Great stuff. Also, Starscream could just transform and rip his wings off.

He wouldnt be wasting time shooting those slow moving avoidable tracer shots for ages allowing Hiller to get away.

Watch Bayformers 1 to get an idea how soon Hiller would be cremated.

By the time Hiller would have gotten to the Oh" of "Oh no! You did not shoot that green shit at ME!!!!", Hillards widow's telegram will have begun its journey to his Pole Dancer wife.

Iron Man solo's, as they can't do much to him. He doesn't even have to use weapons. Just merely wait until one gets behind him for an attack, then hit the air-brakes and just sit back as it crashes into him and takes itself out.

Robtard wins, fatality.

SS has to CATCH them first.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
SS has to CATCH them first.
No.

They can't do shit to him. He can transform and just pop them out of the sky.

Unless this scenario allows for them to have unlimted range and they can just fky away in a straight line.

Originally posted by Robtard
Iron Man solo's, as they can't do much to him. He doesn't even have to use weapons. Just merely wait until one gets behind him for an attack, then hit the air-brakes and just sit back as it crashes into him and takes itself out.

Robtard wins, fatality.

lolz

*Impressed that Robtard managed it before the words "finisssshhhhh hiiiiiiim" had finished reverberating in the air.

Originally posted by Robtard
Iron Man solo's, as they can't do much to him. He doesn't even have to use weapons. Just merely wait until one gets behind him for an attack, then hit the air-brakes and just sit back as it crashes into him and takes itself out.

Robtard wins, fatality. Well, IM would have to catch them, you know, and what if he is hit by machine gun fire or a missile?

Originally posted by Robtard
No.

They can't do shit to him. He can transform and just pop them out of the sky.

Unless this scenario allows for them to have unlimted range and they can just fky away in a straight line. The scenario is that the pilots take to the canyins to evade their pursuers. SS and the others must outfly their prey, catch them, and defeat them.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Well, IM would have to catch them, you know, and what if he is hit by machine gun fire or a missile?

He was hit by F-22 Raptor fire, it mildly dented his armour and chipped some paint.

He was hit by a tank shell, it mildly dented his armour and chipped some paint. He also has flares to counter incoming air-to-air missiles.

Okay.

First of all.



They GIMPED THE UTTER LIVING SHIT OUT OF THE F-22s in the Transformers movie.

The way the F-22 is designed, they wouldn't even BE in the combat zone before one of their uber missiles made contact with SS.

Despite the Transformers uber computing abilities, they still are stupid. FACT.


Just because Bay and the Ironman movie gimped the F-22s, doesn't mean that we have to gimp them in here in, to.


BTW, the F-22s are gimped by default. lol so Lockeheed Martin doesn't play by your guys rules, either. lol

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The scenario is that the pilots take to the canyins to evade their pursuers. SS and the others must outfly their prey, catch them, and defeat them.

Which he will easily do.

Originally posted by Robtard
He was hit by F-22 Raptor fire, it mildly dented his armour and chipped some paint.

He was hit by a tank shell, it mildly dented his armour and chipped some paint. He also has flares to counter incoming air-to-air missiles. Well too bad this is not a head to head dogfight thread, it's a pursuit thread. All aircraft the same speed.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Wow, you are so full of anger. All that hot air, all the insults, how's that chip on your shoulder? Do you feel better? Hmm? I know I do, laughter is the best medicine for the soul, and you do make me laugh.

DDM doesn't come off to me with the air of superiority that you do. He doesn't throw insults around like you do. He is quite pleasant to talk to, unlike you, Mr. Pewpy pants.

It's not a matter of how it's said, but what's said.

He has the same issues we do, and you claim that if we dislike or disagree with the gimping then we should leave. Right? Why not say the same to him?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Do you sign on here rubbing your hands together, a shit eating grin on your face, just aching to get in the shit? You have this impression of me, an immature, clueless dolt, but I gotta tell you, if being like you is what it takes to have a clue, to not be an immature idiot, have at it, I want no part of it. I can't imagine living with myself like that, I'd sooner eat a bullet.

Still didn't answer what motivates you to be such an angry little cuss. Breast feeding issues? Dropped on your head as a child?

Nobody is angry. I just don't like idiots, of which you are one.

Please, do the bullet thing.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Well too bad this is not a head to head dogfight thread, it's a pursuit thread. All aircraft the same speed.

No they don't.

Iron Man and Starscream are faster. Fact.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The scenario is that the pilots take to the canyins to evade their pursuers. SS and the others must outfly their prey, catch them, and defeat them.

Starscrem and Iron Man are far more maneuverable than all those jets. I'd imagine Vader's and Jango's spaceships are too.

So yeah, they can outmaneuver and set-up a kill shot. F-14 & F-18 are aged planes; F-14 is retired from serive for a reason.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Well too bad this is not a head to head dogfight thread, it's a pursuit thread. All aircraft the same speed.

So the F-18/F-14s are not trying to attack back?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri


It's not a matter of how it's said, but what's said.

He has the same issues we do, and you claim that if we dislike or disagree with the gimping then we should leave. Right? Why not say the same to him?



Nobody is angry. I just don't like idiots, of which you are one.

Please, do the bullet thing.



No they don't.

Iron Man and Starscream are faster. Fact.

-AC


Because he is polite?

Trust me, if I ever see myself becoming remotely as you are, I'll eat a shotgun shell.

DON'T IGNORE MY POST, BITCHES!


LOL

Addressed it in the realllllllllll thread, not the gimpey version.

Originally posted by Robtard
So the F-18/F-14s are not trying to attack back? F22's, Rob.

And no, they see dogfight taking place and are attempting to return to base for reinforcements.

Nobody is ignoring it.

Starscream would just solo them.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Because he is polite?

So it IS personal bias. You don't have issues with what we say, despite continuing to tell us to get out if we don't like it. Why not just say "Either say it politely or get out." in that case?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
F22's, Rob.

And no, they see dogfight taking place and are attempting to return to base for reinforcements.

Starscream would catch them because he's faster.

Fact. You deciding he isn't doesn't change that.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
F22's, Rob.

And no, they see dogfight taking place and are attempting to return to base for reinforcements.

They're doomed in anycase.

Wait, Rob, hold on. Shit. The whole idea at first was that they see the alien craft (TIE fighter and Slave 1), and are attempting to return to base. But if they see F22's, thats a different story.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Nobody is ignoring it.

Starscream would just solo them.



So it IS personal bias. You don't have issues with what we say, despite continuing to tell us to get out if we don't like it. Why not just say "Either say it politely or get out." in that case?



Starscream would catch them because he's faster.

Fact. You deciding he isn't doesn't change that.

-AC Actually, since I made the thread and they are all flying F22's that can go the same speed, yeah, it is my decision. It does change it, at least in this thread.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
F22's, Rob.

And no, they see dogfight taking place and are attempting to return to base for reinforcements.

Opening said F-14 and F-18, but okay, F-22 it is.

Let me get this straight, all vehicles have the same max speed here, the F-22s are trying to run away and IM, SS, Vader and Jango are chasing them?

Then like I said above, IM and SS are more maneuverable and can react quicker, so they're going to cut the distance, close-in and fire. I'd imagine Vader's and Jango's spacecraft are more maneuverable than less advanced Earth tech too.

So I'd probably come down to SS out-classing them all, since he is the ****ing plane and isn't controlling it, he reaches the F-22s first and destroys all four. /the end

But the human pilots being human, and all, couldnt fly them to the same degree that SS can.

Ye cannae change the laws of physics, cap'n.

Originally posted by Robtard
Opening said F-14 and F-18, but okay, F-22 it is.

Let me get this straight, all vehicles have the same max speed here, the F-22s are trying to run away and IM, SS, Vader and Jango are chasing them?

Then like I said above, IM and SS are more maneuverable and can react quicker, so they're going to cut the distance, close-in and fire. I'd imagine Vader's and Jango's spacecraft are more maneuverable than far less advanced Earth tech. And I guess the fact that Hiller was able to evade the alien fighter in ID4 means nothing? That alien craft was every bit as maneuverable as IM and SS.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
But the human pilots being human, and all, couldnt fly them to the same degree that SS can.

Ye cannae change the laws of physics, cap'n. Hiller fared pretty good as he flew through the canyons.

Originally posted by Robtard
Opening said F-14 and F-18, but okay, F-22 it is.

Let me get this straight, all vehicles have the same max speed here, the F-22s are trying to run away and IM, SS, Vader and Jango are chasing them?

Then like I said above, IM and SS are more maneuverable and can react quicker, so they're going to cut the distance, close-in and fire. I'd imagine Vader's and Jango's spacecraft are more maneuverable than far less advanced Earth tech too.

So I'd probably come down to SS out-classing them all, since he is the ****ing plane and isn't controlling it, so he reaches them first and destroys all four.

Yeah, just another gimpage/revision that RJ bought in again due to the rule ammendment he cried so very long and so very hard to get bought in at the time of the Hogwarts Vs Jedi-Clones thread.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And I guess the fact that Hiller was able to evade the alien fighter in ID4 means nothing? That alien craft was every bit as maneuverable as IM and SS.

Hiller also crashed, now didn't he.

SS is the ****ing plane, he isn't controlling it. He's going to out-class everyone, cut the distance first and kill himself some F-22. /the end

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Hiller fared pretty good as he flew through the canyons.

Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr did he lose his plane in the only move that would work, once he realised he couldnt shake the alien off...?


(Rhetorical question, in case you hadnt guessed)

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr did he lose his plane in the only move that would work, once he realised he couldnt shake the alien off...?


(Rhetorical question, in case you hadnt guessed) He ran out of fuel If he still had fuel, he would have utilized the chute and escaped.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Actually, since I made the thread and they are all flying F22's that can go the same speed, yeah, it is my decision. It does change it, at least in this thread.

Why would Iron Man fly an F-22? "They are ALL flying F-22s".

Also, Starscream doesn't FLY one nor is he one, technically.

-AC

RJ,

You were wrong in your assertion that the ID4 alien craft are more maneuverable than IM or SS. Once their shielding went down, they were being taking out (easily too) by F-18s. An F-18 couldn't compete with IM or SS, as an F-22 doesn't.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
He ran out of fuel If he still had fuel, he would have utilized the chute and escaped.

Yeah he burned up his fuel running like a little girl.

So he managed to shoot down the ID alien ship...?

Nope. He failed to and got very lucky against something that Starscream would rip apart in seconds.

Rest assured that SS will not be running out of fuel.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Iceman, Maverick and Cpt. Steven Hiller are on patrol one day and run across this dogfight:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t511446.html

Hiller, piloting his F/A-18 Hornet, is in command of Maverick and Iceman, who are piloting their F-14's with Slider and Goose. Hiller sees the alien craft and orders a retreat before the 4 way dogfight combatants see them.

Too late.

Ironman, Jango, Star scream and Vader, all at once, turn their attention to Hiller and his two wingmen.

Hiller, Iceman and Maverick are on the run. They are over a vast desert, with narrow canyons all around. Can they escape and report back to base?

To make things fair, all aircraft here have the same top speed, all are fully fueled and armed, and there are no shields.

WHy are you saying Vader cant use the force. YOU LITERALLY didnt say he couldnt..

Originally posted by Kaibs
WHy are you saying Vader cant use the force. YOU LITERALLY didnt say he couldnt..

Because http://timesonline.typepad.com/style/images/2007/10/19/gimp_3.jpg

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Hiller fared pretty good as he flew through the canyons.

You're also realizing that they were doing training in Top Gun right. And that none of them were considered "Top Gun" until the end right? Even if you want to count them at the end of the movie, they still do not compare to Vader's piloting skills period. ALl three put together dont equal up to Vader. And to add Iron Man and Starscream is just ****ing overkill. You can say that team Top Gun starts out ahead thats fine. Let them. THat would just be even easier for the other team to bring them down. You also gotta realize the Jets they're using are way outdated to today's technology. Dont say no they're not because I can assure you, that you know nothing about military weaponry or aircraft besides what you read on Wikipedia. Im not trying to start shit but im also just saying dont go there. Back to the point. This thread was just a bad idea. I know you thought it'd be interesting but its not even though you severely gimped them. It's still not. Team Top Gun all die. And that's the end of it.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
But the human pilots being human, and all, couldnt fly them to the same degree that SS can.

Ye cannae change the laws of physics, cap'n.

See, I can agree with this. This would be factually correct.


Even if we limit SS to just F-22 abilities, he will still outclass them in the fact that he has a much better computer, can maneuver the plane better than any human pilot can because he would remove the inhibitors, and probably has better weapons due to being a Transformer.






However, in the films. As the F-22s approached the city, they would have easily identified all targets and taken them out, before any one in the city, transformers included, could have made visual contact.


StarScream would have taken a high yeild, super missile and been down for the count.



Sabo rounds were affected for their heat. Missiles get much hotter when the explode.

That's why SS may still be used........



maybe....


If he's distracted, the F-22s in the real world, might stand a chance of taking him out.

...and yet, we're all wrong and it's just me who has an issue with Ariel and his gimping.

Clearly. Clearly I am alone here.

-AC

Ariel, as in the Asian band 'Peterpan'?

Originally posted by Robtard
Ariel, as in the Asian band 'Peterpan'?

Very clever.

Okay. I've had 5 PM's from 3 people about this. Let me see if I have this straight:

Sadako says: RJ is not adhering to MVF rule #7 by changing the scenarios of the fight/race in mid-thread.

AC says: Spite.

RJ says: Who would win in this survival race? The humans in their fighter jets, or the other team?

Am I right?

Just to chime in, here is my opinion on the thread, thus far:

All three human pilots are blown to shit. Starscream is an alien robot who can travel through f*cking space. There is no G-Force factor with him, I imagine, since he, apparently, is not affected by inertia. At least, not in the cognizant sense, I presume. Iron Man has superior air agility and some pretty heinous firepower (one lil' rocket blew up a tank and his Uni-beam conquers.), and, personally, I really don't feel the need to even mention the other two contenders.

I would greatly appreciate it if ALL 3 of you (Sadako, AC, and RJ) would respond to this query. Not in PM Land, I mean. Just quote me and post it here.

Oh, and let's dispense with the name calling (pu$$y, b*tch, etc.). Now.

I got no problem with someone saying this person or that person wins, but when they step in and deliberately start shit, yeah, that aint cool. If they dont like the thread conditions, then why not just ignore it?

Impediment, you can clearly see the nonsense in the criteria for this thread.

You are not a fool, you are a logical, unbiased moderator. His criteria is ridiculous, it doesn't work and it defies sense.

Handicaps are ridiculous when they are so retarded and extreme. This thread should be locked.

The only one who feels it works is Ariel and Mon, kind of. Nobody else finds it cool, and by the way, you've endured this before. You've gotten continual complaints about Rogue Jedi's inability to comprehend what makes a decent thread and how his inability to accept his misgivings causes threads like this.

It's about time you did something about it.

He says he has no issue with someone saying who wins or whatever, but when we do, he says "No but that's not allowed because I said so and it's my thread and I'm allowed to change what I want.". You are the moderator and you have already disagree with his opinion and agreed with ours.

You should get rid of gimping. It's not helping the forum and more debates here are about gimping than they are about the actual characters.

-AC

Okay, let me say this, having read posts by AC and RJ:

RJ: I have to agree the other party that your handicaps are, unfortunately, very restricting. I'm not going to use the term "gimped", because, honestly, I don't like that term. I appreciate you coming to me with your complaints, however, people do have the right to post their opinions in your thread that you made. If I told AC that he was not allowed to post in here because his opinions, however blunt they may be, I would be wrong.

AC: The only thing I have to ask of you, sir, is that you refrain from such bold and, sometimes, blunt opinions. You are a good debater, I have to admit. However, you sometimes tend to go for the throat, if you get my drift. I can't lock this thread, because I would be just as much in the wrong had I, for example, sided with RJ to ask you to not post in here simply because you don't agree with his posts.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
should get rid of gimping. It's not helping the forum and more debates here are about gimping than they are about the actual characters.

-AC

When you say "gimping", do you mean very one sided (spite) fights, or things that violate MVF rule #7?

Originally posted by Impediment
Okay, let me say this, having read posts by AC and RJ:

RJ: I have to agree the other party that your handicaps are, unfortunately, very restricting. I'm not going to use the term "gimped", because, honestly, I don't like that term. I appreciate you coming to me with your complaints, however, people do have the right to post their opinions in your thread that you made. If I told AC that he was not allowed to post in here because his opinions, however blunt they may be, I would be wrong.

AC: The only thing I have to ask of you, sir, is that you refrain from such bold and, sometimes, blunt opinions. You are a good debater, I have to admit. However, you sometimes tend to go for the throat, if you get my drift. I can't lock this thread, because I would be just as much in the wrong had I, for example, sided with RJ to ask you to not post in here simply because you don't agree with his posts.

I agree that I brought SS and the others way down, but it was only in the interest of giving the Earth pilots a fighting chance. What's wrong with that? I said they all have the same max speed in the OP, because if SS and his posse are at full strength,, duh, Hiller and the others are pwned epically in minutes. Piloting skill, that's what I set out for.

Originally posted by Impediment
AC: The only thing I have to ask of you, sir, is that you refrain from such bold and, sometimes, blunt opinions. You are a good debater, I have to admit. However, you sometimes tend to go for the throat, if you get my drift. I can't lock this thread, because I would be just as much in the wrong had I, for example, sided with RJ to ask you to not post in here simply because you don't agree with his posts.

I'm not going to refrain from holding any kind of opinion. This isn't a forum full of kids. Ariel is approaching 40 and you're much older than me, too.

Mon doesn't take what I say seriously, and he's 26.

We're not children. So there's no need to comfort blanket them. If the aforementioned people can't take my opinions, then that's honestly tough shit, would you not agree? They're grown ass men ALLEGEDLY. By age at least. Don't you think it's a bit perverse asking a 23 year old male to stop going for the throat of a near 40 year old one? Surely he can handle himself.

You've seen the way he posts. At least I post on topic, no matter how vehement I am. He sits there replying AT me, not TO me, with YouTube videos and nonsense.

As for the previous quote; I think that if a thread's participants need SEVERE handicapping to make the fight possible, it shouldn't be allowed.

This thread, for example. If the only way a discussion or fight can be had is by severely, illogically and retardedly crippling the stance of another, then don't allow it.

Captain America Vs Darth Maul, say. To say "They don't have a shield or a sabre respectively.", that would be taking away something from BOTH opponents, yet...they would still be able to have a conceivably entertaining battle without any dumb criteria.

This one is a prime example of how NOT to do it. So is his Bob Lee Swagger thread. Other people gimp too, it is NOT just Ariel, but at the same time he is most prominent.

Also, he fails time and time again to grasp WHY it's stupid. Evidenced here;

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I agree that I brought SS and the others way down, but it was only in the interest of giving the Earth pilots a fighting chance. What's wrong with that? I said they all have the same max speed in the OP, because if SS and his posse are at full strength,, duh, Hiller and the others are pwned epically in minutes. Piloting skill, that's what I set out for.

WHY do you still not get it?

"I brought him down because otherwise the rest would get pwned.". EXACTLY.

So then instead of INSISTING on an unworkable-unless-gimped fight, why not just think of a fight that's workable without gimping?

Please tell me why you do not get that.

-AC

I'm not here to hold any hands or powder anyone's butt, AC. Age means nothing to me, rather maturity does. A member came to me and asked me, a moderator, to step in and ask for you to, hopefully, not be so blunt. Simple.

As far as my opinions go on RJ's threads, well.............that is why I consider myself to be an un-biased mod: I don't take sides or throw my opinions.

I love debating in the MVF, and I consider myself a nerd who loves discussing such scenarios.

Seriously, if you have issues with "gimping" and other such spite topics, why not just go to the MVF Social Thread and we will discuss it there? That's why I made it.

Originally posted by Impediment
When you say "gimping", do you mean very one sided (spite) fights, or things that violate MVF rule #7?

When a thread is made where one character clearly has every advantage and then ridiculous amounts of down-grading is done until that character loses and that is the strict reason for the thread, to have that character lose, that is the problem.

Slight modes like taking away weapons to have H2H fights etc isn't the problem.

Originally posted by Robtard
When a thread is made where one character clearly has every advantage and then ridiculous amounts of down-grading is done until that character loses and that is the strict reason for the thread, to have that character lose, that is the problem.

Slight modes like taking away weapons to have H2H fights etc isn't the problem.

So, again, we have a spite issue here?

How would you recommend we try to solve this?

There is no solving it. Either we allow the thread starter to handicap as they see fit, or allow no handicapping at all. There is no grey area.

If the rule is altered to "Well, handicapping is allowed ONLY to a certain point", just imagine the shitstorm.

Originally posted by Impediment
So, again, we have a spite issue here?

How would you recommend we try to solve this?

I say nothing, as I have no problem telling RJ (and others) why their gimping fails.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
There is no solving it. Either we allow the thread starter to handicap as they see fit, or allow no handicapping at all. There is no grey area.

If the rule is altered to "Well, handicapping is allowed ONLY to a certain point", just imagine the shitstorm.

By that logic, then, how would I, as a mod, handle it when other posters chime in and start to wail on said thread settings?

My goal is to be as fair as I can, all the while not taking sides.

Sometimes I feel as if I am being pushed by both sides to, in fact, take a side.

I will only take sides if I feel that I absolutely have to.

I mean, this is why we debate, right?

Originally posted by Impediment
By that logic, then, how would I, as a mod, handle it when other posters chime in and start to wail on said thread settings?

My goal is to be as fair as I can, all the while not taking sides.

Sometimes I feel as if I am being pushed by both sides to, in fact, take a side.

I will only take sides if I feel that I absolutely have to.

I mean, this is why we debate, right?

Then in that case, when people complain to you, come in, objectively view the thread; take into account the opposing viewpoints and tell the retarded people/side they're wrong.

Then end the thread. (or not)

Originally posted by Impediment
By that logic, then, how would I, as a mod, handle it when other posters chime in and start to wail on said thread settings?

My goal is to be as fair as I can, all the while not taking sides.

Sometimes I feel as if I am being pushed by both sides to, in fact, take a side.

I will only take sides if I feel that I absolutely have to.

I mean, this is why we debate, right?

They shouldn't "wail", they should either accept the conditions or not post at all. If no MVF rules are being broken, then their "wailing" is a moot point.

I start all my threads with a certain set of conditions. If I **** up and misjudge the playing field, then I am completely open to any and all thoughts on new conditions, or altering the current ones. Rob knows this. sadako knows this. Or, of it is obvious right away a certain side wins, then I am also open to new conditions to create an even playing field. This comes in handy when I rush making a thread and don't think things through, making it one sided by mistake.

This thread, it is as close as we can get to an even playing field, that's why I handicapped SS and crew.

With all due respect, Ariel's last post is absolute horseshit.

For one, he should stop "rushing" in his thread creation and avoid thinking things through.

Two, Impediment, look at this and make a decision. You're a mod, and nothing's getting done here. It's a simple premise.

He continually makes threads that are spite driven or gimped to retardation. His excuse is "If I didn't gimp it, it'd be pointless.", EXACTLY. If it's pointless, stop making them, focus on making threads that do NOT REQUIRE handicapping to this degree or gimping to this degree.

Do you understand what I'm saying? If the only way THIS thread can happen is with such retarded criteria, why not...just...make one that isn't as retarded? If people spend more time discussing the criteria of a battle than the battle itself, then obviously there's an issue.

What you SHOULD do is just say that there's no gimping in either direction. If you have to handicap someone so a thread will work, not to make it more interesting, but so it will WORK, then it obviously needs to be closed.

The whole "They should just not post." bs is dumb. If we'd not posted, what would have happened? Wasted thread that nobody wants to partake in because it's retarded. Ariel obviously has a thing for gimped threads, people have complained about this time and time again, Impediment.

So if it were ignored NOW, it would have come up again in time.

The solution is that you need to stop handicaps. They need to be removed from this forum. You can have plenty of fun discussion without them. It will cause people to put more thought into the threads they create, too.

"Oh wait, I can't create a *Gimp thread* because handicaps are gone. Guess I have to pick a more creative, workable alternative.". Unlike Ariel, who just types names and presses "Post Thread".

It's the best solution and you know it is.

-AC

Relax. Take a pill.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
They shouldn't "wail", they should either accept the conditions or not post at all. If no MVF rules are being broken, then their "wailing" is a moot point.

I start all my threads with a certain set of conditions. If I **** up and misjudge the playing field, then I am completely open to any and all thoughts on new conditions, or altering the current ones. Rob knows this. sadako knows this. Or, of it is obvious right away a certain side wins, then I am also open to new conditions to create an even playing field. This comes in handy when I rush making a thread and don't think things through, making it one sided by mistake.



Not to take sides, but this seems to be very logical.



If someone is a dumbass and makes a simple mistake, just alter the thread conditions.

I've done it before in a Voldemort thread. I forgot one major detail that allowed an easy win, or something.





If someone forgets, in AC's scenario, to remove Captain America's shield, but remove the Jedi's saber, then it is perfectly understandable to go back and correct that mistake, which is what RJ is saying.




However, that would be gimping the Jedi as the saber is extremely important to their ability to fight. It is integral and symbolic, for thousands of years, to a Jedi. It is almost an extension of the Jedi. To remove it would be to horribly gimp them. Captain America, on the other hand, is a trained martial artist, his extreme durability, super strength, etc. He is a beast without his shield, and has fought quite a few times without it.






See how it works, AC? Do you see how gimping can be interpreted from a different set of opinions?






And, no, I think Robtard has done a good job at NOT gimping people and going along with scenarios.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Two, Impediment, look at this and make a decision. You're a mod, and nothing's getting done here. It's a simple premise.

-AC

Dude. Cool it. Stop being an a**hole. Imp's doing plenty.

Originally posted by dadudemon
However, that would be gimping the Jedi as the saber is extremely important to their ability to fight. It is integral and symbolic, for thousands of years, to a Jedi. It is almost an extension of the Jedi. To remove it would be to horribly gimp them. Captain America, on the other hand, is a trained martial artist, his extreme durability, super strength, etc. He is a beast without his shield, and has fought quite a few times without it.

So Jedi are nothing without their weapons? No.

Captain America's shield is every bit as essential, iconic and integral to his fighting style, this is seen in the movies.

Either way, he isn't saying what I'm saying.

Originally posted by dadudemon
See how it works, AC? Do you see how gimping can be interpreted from a different set of opinions?

No, gimping to Ariel's degree is dumb.

Hence why Imp is going to get rid of handicaps and/or gimping.

-AC

I see gimping a lot in the Games Vs and some of it is understandable, but nothing that goes so far as to force the participants to ignore the laws of physics just to qualify for any form of discussion.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
There is no solving it. Either we allow the thread starter to handicap as they see fit, or allow no handicapping at all. There is no grey area.

If the rule is altered to "Well, handicapping is allowed ONLY to a certain point", just imagine the shitstorm.

Wrong. Now I am I guess the "newest" poster on the MVF and that's fine, however throughout my time here I have noticed that RJ does not only "handicap" his threads from the beginning, but if someone does win with logic he goes on to further handicap shit. Shouldn't it just be established that you can only severely **** a side over once and if they still win then just accept it and move on? I'm not here to start shit with people I like these silly little scenarios for some reason, and they kill downtime. But when I post a relevant point sometimes I will only say RJ in this case because I've had situations with him it doesn't really get retaliated with logic. He tries to counteract such statement with another "handicaping" or unlogical statement. Pardon my typos. It's late. I have a paper to write, and I just got pulled over by the ****in police 15 minutes ago so im pissed.

"Moving the goalpost" is what you're referring to, or a form of it. RJ is good at this; it's entertaining at times.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Iceman, Maverick and Cpt. Steven Hiller are on patrol one day and run across this dogfight:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t511446.html

Hiller, piloting his F/A-18 Hornet, is in command of Maverick and Iceman, who are piloting their F-14's with Slider and Goose. Hiller sees the alien craft and orders a retreat before the 4 way dogfight combatants see them.

Too late.

Ironman, Jango, Star scream and Vader, all at once, turn their attention to Hiller and his two wingmen.

Hiller, Iceman and Maverick are on the run. They are over a vast desert, with narrow canyons all around. Can they escape and report back to base?

To make things fair, all aircraft here have the same top speed, all are fully fueled and armed, and there are no shields.

Even with the same top speed. The quintet has way more firepower and durability. Hiller and company maybe able to beat a retreat, but its a long shot.

Things might be more fair if Hiller and company got Alien Fighter or if everybody got the same aircraft. Just a thought.

See, this is the issue. We know that one side can win in a stomp here, so gimping that side until it loses proves what? That they can lose if they're gimped enough.

Fights where one character/side is way overpowered over the other shouldn't be done at all(or only done very intelligently), as that winning-side can only go down, while the losing-side can only go up.

It turns into 'how far do we need to gimp until the winning-side loses' debate. This is of course not taking into account someone of particularly high imagination and match making skill.

Originally posted by Robtard
See, this is the issue. We know that one side can win in a stomp here, so gimping that side until it loses proves what? That they can lose if they're gimped enough.

Fights where one character/side is way overpowered over the other shouldn't be done at all(or only done very intelligently), as that winning-side can only go down, while the losing-side can only go up.

It turns into 'how far do we need to gimp until the winning-side loses' debate. This is of course not taking into account someone of particularly high imagination and match making skill.

Well according to Rogue Jedi. He was going for pilot skill vs pilot skill. Which seems like a reasonable question. Which is why I suggested putting everybody in the same aircraft or at least more comperable craft.

How about this. Replace Viper with McClane, what then, Rob?

Originally posted by Nightstick
Well according to Rogue Jedi. He was going for pilot skill vs pilot skill. Which seems like a reasonable question. Which is why I suggested putting everybody in the same aircraft or at least more comperable craft.

That's fine and it was done; the gimped side still won, as Starscream outclasses them in piloting, as does Vader, arguably. There's also the issue of Iron Man being in an F-22, which is just ridiculous.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
How about this. Replace Viper with McClane, what then, Rob?

As far as I know, McClane doesn't have jet piloting skill.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So Jedi are nothing without their weapons? No.

Duh. But they certainly are a lot less, in battle, without it, Mr. Strawman.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Captain America's shield is every bit as essential,

Lie.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
iconic

To the fan, yes.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
and integral to his fighting style,

Lie.





Fact is, Captain America has fought many long hard battles without his shield. In fact, during his first days, he didn't even have it.







Sure, his shield is very important and it helps him win many fights.

However, he can certainly can fight almost as well, unless under fire.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Fact is, Captain America has fought many long hard battles without his shield. In fact, during his first days, he didn't even have it.


The second sentence is not true.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/thumb/3/31/Captain_America_Comics_1.jpg/300px-Captain_America_Comics_1.jpg

Originally posted by Robtard
The second sentence is not true.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/thumb/3/31/Captain_America_Comics_1.jpg/300px-Captain_America_Comics_1.jpg
That's not the shield I'm referring to. I'm referring the vibranium-iron alloy shield...as is AC.


If I were to assume where AC was coming from, Captain America's shield may be resistant, perfectly, to a light saber. Removing both the shield and the light saber in effect "nulls" their respective "weapons".


BTW, "it" in my post refers to that special shield. Had I meant a shield, period, I would have said the following:


" he didn't even have a shield."

Originally posted by dadudemon
Duh. But they certainly are a lot less, in battle, without it, Mr. Strawman.



Lie.



To the fan, yes.



Lie.





Fact is, Captain America has fought many long hard battles without his shield. In fact, during his first days, he didn't even have it.







Sure, his shield is very important and it helps him win many fights.

However, he can certainly can fight almost as well, unless under fire.

No, not "Lie".

We're discussing the movies.

-AC

Originally posted by Impediment
Okay. I've had 5 PM's from 3 people about this. Let me see if I have this straight:

Sadako says: RJ is not adhering to MVF rule #7 by changing the scenarios of the fight/race in mid-thread.

AC says: Spite.

RJ says: Who would win in this survival race? The humans in their fighter jets, or the other team?

Am I right?

Just to chime in, here is my opinion on the thread, thus far:

All three human pilots are blown to shit. Starscream is an alien robot who can travel through f*cking space. There is no G-Force factor with him, I imagine, since he, apparently, is not affected by inertia. At least, not in the cognizant sense, I presume. Iron Man has superior air agility and some pretty heinous firepower (one lil' rocket blew up a tank and his Uni-beam conquers.), and, personally, I really don't feel the need to even mention the other two contenders.

I would greatly appreciate it if ALL 3 of you (Sadako, AC, and RJ) would respond to this query. Not in PM Land, I mean. Just quote me and post it here.

Wow that more or less sums that up for me.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
They shouldn't "wail", they should either accept the conditions or not post at all. If no MVF rules are being broken, then their "wailing" is a moot point.

I start all my threads with a certain set of conditions. If I **** up and misjudge the playing field, then I am completely open to any and all thoughts on new conditions, or altering the current ones. Rob knows this. sadako knows this. Or, of it is obvious right away a certain side wins, then I am also open to new conditions to create an even playing field. This comes in handy when I rush making a thread and don't think things through, making it one sided by mistake.

This thread, it is as close as we can get to an even playing field, that's why I handicapped SS and crew.

Dude that you change rules/scenarios is not in dispute.

Its just that you almost exclusively use them to YOUR own ends.
Over and over within a thread until a win for the gimped, superior, win every time logically, side exist as a ball for you to angrily bat forever and ever.

This and the Harry Potter vs SW thread are truly epic examples of this.

Ifyou knew there a was an amusing level of disparity between the capabilities of either side, then stick it in the Mismatch thread where your idea could entertain, rather than infuriate.

The world would be a marginally better place then.

Originally posted by Robtard
That's fine and it was done; the gimped side still won, as Starscream outclasses them in piloting, as does Vader, arguably. There's also the issue of Iron Man being in an F-22, which is just ridiculous. I hope the last part was sarcasm haermm

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I hope the last part was sarcasm haermm

No, RJ.

You're forgetting the Prime Rule.

This is serious business.

I see....Well, if IM's F22 is destroyed, he can eject and use his suit

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I see....Well, if IM's F22 is destroyed, he can eject and use his suit


I say put Ironman on the opposite team of SS. They would balance themselves out, me thinks.


Ironman tried his hardest not to destroy the F-22s, and he ended up destroying one and almost got the other. In Ironman, they at least "found" Ironman with their uber sensors that exist in real life, adding to a bit more realism than Tranformers. IMO, Ironman is deadlier against F-22s than SS, only because Ironman did so well against them while NOT trying to harm them. lulz?

Mix it up, *****.

So, Ariel.

How does it feel to know that Impediment is pretty much agreeing that such gimping and handicaps have no place in this forum and is going to stop it?

Pretty much makes me right all along, as he said.

Enjoy putting Iron Man in a fighter jet while it lasts.

-AC

This shit is going to stop, I agree.

I'm tired of being everyone's backseat pokéMOD.

If I see a spite/gimp (as some people put it) thread, it will be closed.

However, let me say that I will use my best judgement before I make such a decision.

Can this thread get back on topic, or do I just need to close it?

No offense, but if your best judgement has let this thread get to seven pages...

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No offense, but if your best judgement has let this thread get to seven pages...

-AC

I tend to let my peers argue it out before I intervene, kitten. heartbeat


'Tis only because of you, and the input of others, have I reached this conclusion.

Shall we vacation in Prague or Milan?

Originally posted by Impediment
I tend to let my peers argue it out before I intervene, kitten. heartbeat


'Tis only because of you, and the input of others, have I reached this conclusion.

Shall we vacation in Prague or Milan?

I wanted to go to Bumblescum, Alabama.

-AC

gAHCVNTiwM4

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So, Ariel.

How does it feel to know that Impediment is pretty much agreeing that such gimping and handicaps have no place in this forum and is going to stop it?

Pretty much makes me right all along, as he said.

Enjoy putting Iron Man in a fighter jet while it lasts.

-AC




All he said is that the conditions were very restrictive.


Originally posted by Impediment


RJ: I have to agree the other party that your handicaps are, unfortunately, very restricting.
See? Very restricting, and in this thread. And I admitted that I handicapped SS alot to make the playing field even. So in reality, Mattie and I are on the same page. I simply took MVF rule # 7 and took it to the extreme. If I had known the shitstorm that would come of it, I would never have done it.

I will continue to handicap combatants as I see fit, but trust me, lesson learned on handicapping like I did here. A solution I had in mind is pming Rob or sadako IF I feel that the handicap is too extreme, seeing as how they share the same opinion as you do, and seeing as how, despite being at odds with me frequently, I know they are good guys and I know they will be straight with me.

Just a thought.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
All he said is that the conditions were very restrictive.


See? Very restricting, and in this thread. And I admitted that I handicapped SS alot to make the playing field even. So in reality, Mattie and I are on the same page. I simply took MVF rule # 7 and took it to the extreme. If I had known the shitstorm that would come of it, I would never have done it.

I will continue to handicap combatants as I see fit, but trust me, lesson learned on handicapping like I did here. A solution I had in mind is pming Rob or sadako IF I feel that the handicap is too extreme, seeing as how they share the same opinion as you do, and seeing as how, despite being at odds with me frequently, I know they are good guys and I know they will be straight with me.

Just a thought.

According to the PM I got entitled "You're right", we're getting different versions.

You will not continue to handicap as you see fit.

"If I see a spite/gimp (as some people put it) thread, it will be closed.".

You make spite/gimp threads. So no, you will not continue to do that as you see fit.

Too bad.

What is it with you? You keep suggesting all these solutions instead of the one that works best. If you HAVE to gimp a thread or handicap a thread just so it works, DON'T do it in the first place. Just make one that DOESN'T need gimping OR handicapping.

WHY am I explaining this to you for the 90th time? Seriously? What about that do you not understand?

Impediment is only being so touchy about this because he's friends with you. Any other mod would have and should have changed the rules ages ago. He agrees with me, he's said so publically and in PMs.

-AC

Tell you what, go to every thread here, and if there is any handicapping whatsoever going on, repost that. Because according to you, if one side is handicapped even slightly, it is a spite/gimp thread.

And yes, I will continue to start threads and handicap as I see fit.

This thread broke no rules, it is in complete accordance with rule # 7.

A "spite/gimp" thread is different than what I did here. A spite thread is taking one guy and pitting him against another KNOWING that guy A is way too much for guy B. If sadako made a thread titled "McClane versus Pee Wee Herman", that is a spite thread. A gimp thread is taking two guys who are pretty close to being even, and handicapping one way down so that there is no way he can win.

All I did here was take two sides and make them close to being even.

Then stop making them...?
Put em in the unfair matches thread?

Well if your gonna carry on nicking the cool ideas for threads, then ruining them by always changing goal posts, whilst gleefully gloating that you have impunity to do so, then realise this: Im done with your threads, and I reserve the right to make a similar thread if yours is deemed a gimped out waste steeped in your own personal fantasy.
If you'd now effectively say what goes on these threads, Id be done with the section, as it'd be 'devoid of' and indeed 'opposed to' debating logic in any form.

The Hogwarts/Sw thread was an unbeautiful but powerful example of RJnian gimping at its finest.

Fixed:
"A gimp thread is taking a thread, and handicapping one way down so that there is no way he can win."

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Tell you what, go to every thread here, and if there is any handicapping whatsoever going on, repost that. Because according to you, if one side is handicapped even slightly, it is a spite/gimp thread.

And yes, I will continue to start threads and handicap as I see fit.

This thread broke no rules, it is in complete accordance with rule # 7.

A "spite/gimp" thread is different than what I did here. A spite thread is taking one guy and pitting him against another KNOWING that guy A is way too much for guy B. If sadako made a thread titled "McClane versus Pee Wee Herman", that is a spite thread. A gimp thread is taking two guys who are pretty close to being even, and handicapping one way down so that there is no way he can win.

All I did here was take two sides and make them close to being even.

Nope. I see what your trying to say, but if that were me I would have said to just put it in the "Greatest mismatches of all time thread". (as I have all the way through this.)