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The fight takes place inside of a large, packed, warehouse. There is more than enough room for Spiderman to crawl around up top or even websling launch to the other side, and there is more than enough room in the aisles, between pallets for Ozy to navagate.





Who wins, and why?

Spider-man; here's why:

A lot stronger

More durable

Spider-sense

Webbing

Greater agility

Arguably more speed

With no prep, Parker wipes the floor with Veidt.

Originally posted by Robtard
Spider-man; here's why:

A lot stronger

More durable

Spider-sense

Webbing

Greater agility

Arguably more speed Mainly the first two.

Spiderweb flavoured annhilation awaits Ozymandias early on.

And the part he looks forward to, in all likelyhood: The spideyfist

Spidey Penis in Ozy's watchhole.

I see more durability and strength for spiderman. Fighting speed easily goes to Ozy, though.


Intelligence easily goes to Veidt.


Depends on what Veidt brings to the match, as far as weapons goes. What did he use in the movie, other than his bullet proof hands, lol.



Including PIS, Spiderman can't punch hard enough to knock someone out. hahaha


Veidt can, though.






He lost to the Comedian, but later wipes the floor with the Comedian. The Comedian could punch through walls....and get his head busted through thick marble counters, by Ozy.



Ozy certainly has much more strength than a normal human. His reaction time is so fast that an unskilled eye would mistake it for precognition on terms with Jedi ability.


To me, the only thing Ozy needs to win is some sore of weapon. But, I refuse to give Ozy any weapons he didn't use in the film.






So, unless Ozy has a weapon such as a sword or gun, Spiderman wins. If Ozy gets even something such as as sword, he wins no problem. He just doesn't have the ability to break through Spiderman's tough skin....skin that should be tougher than the Comedians absurdly tough skin.






So, Ozy with sword or better. Spiderman if Ozy is unarmed.






Someone clarify if Ozy had any weapons in the film. I've only seen the movie once...when it first came out.

Ummmmmm yeah Spidey "not being able to knock someone out" is the most accomplished absurdist statement Ive read on here this week.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Ummmmmm yeah Spidey "not being able to knock someone out" is the most accomplished absurdist statement Ive read on here this week.


But, it's true.


He had a hard time knocking anyone out...cept that wrestler, if I'm not mistaken...even then, he had a hard time...was at least scared fer a bit.

Probably holding back.

A skilled 9 stone guy can knock you out.

A spideydude would remove your head. It could be that he was holding back a bit (killing wasnt a big thing of his) which makes infinitely more sense than "Spiderman couldnt knock someone out if he tried...."

Spidey speed + lots of webbing + a few good punches to the face = Ozy getting buttraped.

Like Ozymandias was on an episode of....."Oz"....

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Probably holding back.


Maybe, but there's little evidence of that. In fact, we have evidence to the contrary. Spiderman would be fighting his hardest against someone trying to kill his Aunt May, right? So why do his punches seem...human against a human opponent, Otto.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
A skilled 9 stone guy can knock you out.

A 4 stone dwarf could knock me out...given the right circumstances.

Also, keep your lame British stones away from me.



Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
A spideydude would remove your head.

Only movie feats are allowed. He never did it. Ozy dodged bullets at mere feet, knocked heads through thick solid slabs of marble. Compare and contrast those feets. I think PP has some feats that can match that, with ease.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
It could be that he was holding back a bit (killing wasnt a big thing of his) which makes infinitely more sense than "Spiderman couldnt knock someone out if he tried...."

Since it is never mentioned in the film, we can only go by movie feats.




Stick to the movies, not to reality.


Yes, I am dead serious.



You can't try to be realistic. Spiderman would have almost have punched a hole through Flash's chest in Spiderman 1, but he didn't.

His powers were in flux then, against Flash..

I'm gonna guess Spidey, if he hit Ozy with all his strength, holding nothing back, would turn Ozy's head into a chicken pot pie.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
His powers were in flux then, against Flash..


Compare the durability of Spiderman to The Comedian.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Compare the durability of Spiderman to The Comedian.

Spidey is way more durable than Comedian.

Spidey wins.

Did Ozy show any strength feats that would enable him to break free of webbing?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Did Ozy show any strength feats that would enable him to break free of webbing?

He did break a solid slab of marble with the Comedian's head.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Spidey is way more durable than Comedian.

Spidey wins.


You need to do a better job than that. Give reasons for each side.

Originally posted by dadudemon
He did break a solid slab of marble with the Comedian's head. That means the Comedian has a hard head haermm

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
That means the Comedian has a hard head haermm

And that Ozy is pretty effin' strong.

That feat alone puts both the Comedian and Ozy at superhuman.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And that Ozy is pretty effin' strong.

That feat alone puts both the Comedian and Ozy at superhuman.

More like Metahuman.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You need to do a better job than that. Give reasons for each side. Originally posted by Robtard
Spider-man; here's why:

A lot stronger

More durable

Spider-sense

Webbing

Greater agility

Arguably more speed

Rob pretty much made it clear why.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Did Ozy show any strength feats that would enable him to break free of webbing?
He had enough strength to lift that sweet ass laser.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Rob pretty much made it clear why.

You didn't prove anything.




Quoting another poster does nothing to prove your point, especially when that poster does not provide any feats or post those feats.


Also, this was comparing Spiderman's durability to The Comedian's durability.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And that Ozy is pretty effin' strong.

That feat alone puts both the Comedian and Ozy at superhuman.

Hollis Mason disagrees with you. His movie canon book "Under the hood" reveals (along with the movie itself) that the coming of Manhattan in the 60s was the dawn of the superhero.

Everyone else was a simple "masked avenger"

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Hollis disagrees with you. His movie canon book "Beneath the hood" reveals (along with the movie itself) that the coming of Manhattan in the 60s was the dawn of the superhero.

Too bad the movie has superhuman feats. Since we go by movie feats, Ozy has superhuman strength and time perception.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Everyone else was a simple "masked avenger"

By some definitions, some superheros can just be masked heros.

Don't you guys know? Normal people in comic book stuff are super humans compared to normal people in real world stuff. Not even kidding, any nameless face in that movie/comic could do the exact same thing if they had the same training.

I think someone is forgetting Uncle Ben's law, which Peter adheres to: "With great power comes great responsibility." Peter isn't a murderer, he holds back.

Anyone arguing that a guy who can stop a speeding train and support several tons, can't knock-out someone because "he didn't do it", is factually being an ass.

For the record though, Spider-man did beat someone the **** up, he beat Harry (who is super-powered) into a pulp, when the gloves came off.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You didn't prove anything.

Quoting another poster does nothing to prove your point, especially when that poster does not provide any feats or post those feats.


Also, this was comparing Spiderman's durability to The Comedian's durability.

Okay, jack-ass, further proof:

Spider-man; here's why:

A lot stronger - Stopping the train, holding the cable trolley filled with people, supporting the wall.

More durable - Bomb blowing up in face, being punched by super-powered guys lilke the Goblin who is equal in strength to Spider-man, thrown through walls, being pounded on by a 5-story tall Sandman.

Spider-sense - Early warning system

Webbing - Can be used offensively in multiple ways, is extremely strong

Greater agility - Various feats, one great one was the instant twisting while flying through the gated path in SM2, another was dodging gunfire as dodging varyies projectiles from Goblin and New Goblin.

Arguably more speed - Dodging the gunfire, the fight scene with Flash, Flash was punching way faster than anyone in Watchmen. Ozy grabbing the bullet is way impressive though, so like I said, it's arguable, they're probably close here.

So out of the six specs above, Ozy has one on Spider-man.

Originally posted by Robtard


Anyone arguing that a guy who can stop a speeding train and support several tons, can't knock-out someone because "he didn't do it", is factually being an ass.



QFT

Originally posted by Robtard
Okay, jack-ass, further proof:

Spider-man; here's why:

A lot stronger - Stopping the train, holding the cable trolley filled with people, supporting the wall.


Granted.

Originally posted by Robtard
More durable - Bomb blowing up in face, being punched by super-powered guys lilke the Goblin who is equal in strength to Spider-man, thrown through walls, being pounded on by a 5-story tall Sandman.


Peter was also bleeding and damaged.

You've got all of the other ones, though. By all accounts, if a bomb that blasted PP a few feet, damaged his face, then why did not the massive amount of force from ultra Sandman no bust open PP? The way I estimate the numbers, the force, per square inch, would be much greater when sandman was hitting him. Not only would it have shredded PP's costume, it would have busted his skin open. It should have also crushed him. But it didn't.

Originally posted by Robtard
Spider-sense - Early warning system

Rarely used and proved to have little advantage in the movies. We have the Flash coming up behind PP. In the burning building. The trays falling. Any others?

Originally posted by Robtard
Webbing - Can be used offensively in multiple ways, is extremely strong

Which ways did he use his webbing, offensively?

Originally posted by Robtard
Greater agility - Various feats, one great one was the instant twisting while flying through the gated path in SM2, another was dodging gunfire as dodging varyies projectiles from Goblin and New Goblin.

Originally posted by Robtard
Arguably more speed - Dodging the gunfire, the fight scene with Flash, Flash was punching way faster than anyone in Watchmen. Ozy grabbing the bullet is way impressive though, so like I said, it's arguable, they're probably close here.

I detect a bias, now. No, the fight at the beginning of the film was superior to any fight in the Spiderman films, in terms of speed, and fighting ability.

Originally posted by Robtard
So out of the six specs above, Ozy has one on Spider-man.

Speed, and the ability to react, and brains, I give to Ozy. These are his, easily.


Durability and strength go to Spidey, easily.


This is why Ozy wins this, imo.




Give Ozy prep and Spidey prep....PP goes down. (lol?)

Considering what he's been through, some blood and pain is nothing.

That's enough to count, he has it, he used it; it helped him. It's a valuable asset. I detect bias here in trying to make Spider-sense out to be nigh-useless.

Sticking people up, sticking things and then using the webbing as a fulcrum to launch said items, those web-balls he fired at Harry, it's an offensive weapon, or can be, that webbing. Ozy wouldn't be able to break free, going by maximum strength feats for Ozy and the webbing.

The Ozy/Comedian fight was more bad- ass, but in terms of raw speed, Flash was punching like a mofo and Peter was dodging, super-speed dodging. Remember how slow Flash's fist appeared to Peter from his heightened perspective?

Speed, arguably, if so not by much, as they're close. Ability to react goes to Peter, his super-speed combined with the spider-sense give him the edge.

With prep sure, as Veidt would/could use his genius and billions to set-up a scenario where Spider-man would die and Veidt wouldn't need to get his hands dirty. Straight up fight, Veidt gets punched through the face.

His superior brains'll look good all over the pavement.

(Unless he has recently become so smart that he can out think gravity)

He'd be "The smartest man in the morgue" as the comedian put it.

Given the tram puts lift Spider-man's in the class 10 range as in the ability to lift 10 tons. Given their back and forth fighting and struggling i'd figure that Goblin is in the same range. Meaning that when Goblin throws something. Its coming damn fast. Infact assuming rough parity between his lifting and throwing ability. That is to say something like 20x the best real world athlete(1000lbs vs 10 tons) then Goblins projectiles are probably traveling at around 300fps or 20x faster then the fastest recorded fast ball which clocks in around 150pfs. For the sake of safe range in estimates though lets assume that Goblin is only half as strong as Spider-man and doesn't have the throwing skill of pro-ball players so can only throw half as fast. His projectiles are still going to be traveling at 500-700fps. The muzzle velocity on a Colt .45 Auto is 400fps and other pistols range in the area of 500-800fps. Which means even low balling it Peter was dodging multipile projectiles moving at bullet speed. Where as Ozy barely got away with one. In other words Pete has a major speed/reaction time advantage.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I see more durability and strength for spiderman. Fighting speed easily goes to Ozy, though.


Intelligence easily goes to Veidt.


Depends on what Veidt brings to the match, as far as weapons goes. What did he use in the movie, other than his bullet proof hands, lol.



Including PIS, Spiderman can't punch hard enough to knock someone out. hahaha


Veidt can, though.






He lost to the Comedian, but later wipes the floor with the Comedian. The Comedian could punch through walls....and get his head busted through thick marble counters, by Ozy.



Ozy certainly has much more strength than a normal human. His reaction time is so fast that an unskilled eye would mistake it for precognition on terms with Jedi ability.


To me, the only thing Ozy needs to win is some sore of weapon. But, I refuse to give Ozy any weapons he didn't use in the film.






So, unless Ozy has a weapon such as a sword or gun, Spiderman wins. If Ozy gets even something such as as sword, he wins no problem. He just doesn't have the ability to break through Spiderman's tough skin....skin that should be tougher than the Comedians absurdly tough skin.






So, Ozy with sword or better. Spiderman if Ozy is unarmed.






Someone clarify if Ozy had any weapons in the film. I've only seen the movie once...when it first came out.

Until Ozy stops a subway train with sheer strength and determination alone he has nothing on spiderman strength wise.

Also I think spider-man still has more fighting speed than Ozy. True ozy was catching bullets and shit, but spider man straight up dodges them like their nothing. When he faught doc ock he had to be incredibly fast at attacking which he was. Not to mention in spider man 3 in the beginning when he faught Harry.

Originally posted by Kaibs
Also I think spider-man still has more fighting speed than Ozy. True ozy was catching bullets and shit, but spider man straight up
dodges them like their nothing.

I disagree. Ozy has Spiderman beaten in spades, on fighting speed.

Ozy dodges bullets like they're nothing, and, unlike Spiderman, he was dodging them from a highered assassin, not a bank robbing street thug.

Spiderman was also moving around while the assassin was mere feet away while pointing a gun at a stationary Ozy. he dodged the bullets AFTER the gun was fired, while staring right down the barrel. That's faster reaction than any speed feat we get from spiderman.

Originally posted by Kaibs
When he faught doc ock he had to be incredibly fast at attacking which he was. Not to mention in spider man 3 in the beginning when he faught Harry.

Doc Oc is also fully human. Spiderman couldn't even knock out Doc Oc with punches when his Aunt was in danger.

Originally posted by Robtard
That's enough to count, he has it, he used it; it helped him. It's a valuable asset. I detect bias here in trying to make Spider-sense out to be nigh-useless.

I just don't see Spiderman using it very much in actual fights for one reason:

It's almost useless because Spiderman is so durable, agile, and fast anyway.

They basically nulled that ability. Where does he use it in the second and third films?

Originally posted by Robtard
Sticking people up, sticking things and then using the webbing as a fulcrum to launch said items, those web-balls he fired at Harry, it's an offensive weapon, or can be, that webbing. Ozy wouldn't be able to break free, going by maximum strength feats for Ozy and the webbing.

I agree. Ozy would not be able to break free...unless he had a weapon like a sword. And, dodging those web-balls would be a breeze for Ozy. They would be far slower than those bullets he dodged.

Originally posted by Robtard
The Ozy/Comedian fight was more bad- ass, but in terms of raw speed, Flash was punching like a mofo and Peter was dodging, super-speed dodging. Remember how slow Flash's fist appeared to Peter from his heightened perspective?

I'm still going with the Ozy Comedian fight as faster and far more complex. That fight, alone, give Ozy a fighting feat that is greater than anything Spiderman does in all three films, in terms of complexity and speed.

Originally posted by Robtard
Speed, arguably, if so not by much, as they're close. Ability to react goes to Peter, his super-speed combined with the spider-sense give him the edge.

Yeah, it goes to Ozy on speed, no doubt.

Originally posted by Robtard
With prep sure, as Veidt would/could use his genius and billions to set-up a scenario where Spider-man would die and Veidt wouldn't need to get his hands dirty. Straight up fight, Veidt gets punched through the face.

Indeed.



In fact, I am guilty of gimping, here.


I just gimped Ozy by not giving him prep. He has one of the greatest minds on Earth, if not THE greatest mind on Earth. I just gimped him of one of his best if not the best asset of his.


This is what I was talking about when I said almost every thread is a gimp thread.

DDM,

2nd film, when he grabs Mary Jane, dives and dodges the Saturn that Ock threw through the Cafe' window. He was warned first by his Spider-sense. He would have been hit by the car and MJ killed, had he not had it.

3rd film: Can't recall, only watched it once, as it's pure shit.

Prep is somewhat silly, as most inferior people could defeat greater opponents with prep, just a matter of how much prep you give them. Remember the Lex Luther Vs Hogwarts thread, were Luthor got a year of prep (or some other ridiculous amount of time).

Originally posted by Robtard
DDM,

2nd film, when he grabs Mary Jane, dives and dodges the Saturn that Ock threw through the Cafe' window. He was warned first by his Spider-sense. He would have been hit by the car and MJ killed, had he not had it.

I remember that, now. But it wasn't in a fight....like being in a warehouse and getting surprised by Ozy.




Originally posted by Robtard
3rd film: Can't recall, only watched it once, as it's pure shit.

It wasn't pure shit....but it certainly wasn't what I wanted.

Originally posted by Robtard
Prep is somewhat silly, as most inferior people could defeat greater opponents with prep, just a matter of how much prep you give them. Remember the Lex Luther Vs Hogwarts thread, were Luthor got a year of prep (or some other ridiculous amount of time).

But when a character's major defining ability is his brain, then that is his weapon.


PP is smart, but not as smart as Veidt.

I would put Veidt higher than Read Richards, especially considering he's every bit, if not more so, intelligent as Reed Richards, but unlike Reed, he isn't absent minded and fully understands manipulation of people. He's like Doom, Reed, and Danzo (from Naruto) all rolled up into one person.


This is why Ozy has been gimped, by me.

Capturing or killing Spiderman would be easy for Ozy...with only an hour of prep.

Dude, you're spitting-hairs here, and being willfully stupid in the process. Spider-sense acts as an early warning system to danger, the end.

Na, it was pure shit, even had corn in it. I try to imagine that SM3 doesn't exist.

I've agreed that with prep, Veidt can win. He'd need more than an hour to set up some scheme to defeat Spider-man, cuz catching him by surprise and relying solely on that isn't going to win the day for him, it's going to end with his pretty-boy face being punched through.

Is Spider man's punching power still being questioned?

The only question is, would it go completely through Veidt's head or just cave in his face.

I'm thinking the former, if this is Spider-man unrestrained.

IMO, Ozy's face would end up like Rudy Tomjanovich's.

1k1i4Ddngg8



See Smoky here at 1:28



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Originally posted by Robtard
Dude, you're spitting-hairs here, and being willfully stupid in the process. Spider-sense acts as an early warning system to danger, the end.

You missed the part in one of my others posts that says he rarely uses it because he simply doesn't need it due to his speed and agility.

Originally posted by Robtard
Na, it was pure shit, even had corn in it. I try to imagine that SM3 doesn't exist.

Damn. It must have really made you sad, then.

Originally posted by Robtard
I've agreed that with prep, Veidt can win. He'd need more than an hour to set up some scheme to defeat Spider-man, cuz catching him by surprise and relying solely on that isn't going to win the day for him, it's going to end with his pretty-boy face being punched through.

I disagree. Veidt is so far up there in intelligence that he is seen watching a shit load of stations at once. This is "comfortable" to him as any less isn't enough for him to feel comfortable and relaxed. That puts him far above human level. He is well into the superhuman level on intellect, which is why he can dodge bullets AFTER they are fired at him when he's stationary...from just a few feet.

Not as good as spidey sense.

Ozzy is only human, no matter how powerful humans are depicted.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Not as good as spidey sense.

Ozzy is only human, no matter how powerful humans are depicted.

A human with super human speed, strength, agility, and intelligence.

All those first attributes are matched by or excelled at by Herr VanSpiiiiiderhoffen.

The intelligence, sure, Parker, being a big science freak, may be a little behind Ozzymandias, but his much proven instinct/comabat intelligence more than looks after him just fine.

Parker seemed to be able to hang with Octavius who was no schmuck, in the cerebral stakes, either...

Originally posted by dadudemon
A human with super human speed, strength, agility, and intelligence.

Nothing close to Spider-Man.

When he's swinging around New York, climbing on walls and able to lift as much, maybe.

-AC

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
All those first attributes are matched by or excelled at by Herr VanSpiiiiiderhoffen.

Not speed. Agility, yes, but he moves faster and in one definition, that would make him more agile.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
The intelligence, sure, Parker, being a big science freak, may be a little behind Ozzymandias, but his much proven instinct/comabat intelligence more than looks after him just fine.

Parker is really smart, but not even close to Ozy.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Parker seemed to be able to hang with Octavius who was no schmuck, in the cerebral stakes, either...

Sort of. He's not quite the mind of Octavius, but he was able to understand what Doc Oc was doing.

He moves faster and has spidey sense. The combination of the that and the way thatSpidey seems to experince slowtime perception, make Spidey the fav for speed.

So you agree that he is no dumbass himself, and is basically not gonna get retarded out of this fight, then?

What the hell is this? Are we seriously comparing Blake's durability to Spider-Man's?

I always thought Watchmen(minus Manhattan) vs Spider-Man would be a good match.

Parker likely tear right through them, with a combo of webbing, flips, punches and kicks, their human durability being the greatest weak-spot.

Niteowl's laser be a good weapon, doubt it's ever find it's target though.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
He moves faster

I disagree, based on fact.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
and has spidey sense.

Ozy' reaction time is better. Ozy > Spiderman's spidersense.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
The combination of the that and the way thatSpidey seems to experince slowtime perception, make Spidey the fav for speed.

No, Ozy's perception is just as slow, if not slower, and he can avoid MUCH faster objects.


Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
So you agree that he is no dumbass himself, and is basically not gonna get retarded out of this fight, then?

PP is a VERY smart person. But he can't hold a candle to Veidt.

Originally posted by Robtard
Parker likely tear right through them, with a combo of webbing, flips, punches and kicks, their human durability being the greatest weak-spot.

Niteowl's laser be a good weapon, doubt it's ever find it's target though.

See, Ozy can react faster than Spiderman and he also has superhuman durability (not on scale with spiderman, though). Veidt could easily take several punches from Spiderman, no problem. This is fact. See Oto vs. Spidey.




But, like I said, unless Veidt gets some sort of hard metal object, like a sword, he is losing this fight.

IMO, Veidt can't block the strong punches and kicks from Spiderman as long as Spiderman can keep it up. Spiderman's endurance should be > Ozy's, imo.

Very doubtful Ozy can react faster, despite your insistence, the movie feats prove you likely wrong.

Veidt by all accounts has peak human durability, he bruised and bleed when Niteowl beat on him; while Niteowl is very strong, he has nothing compared to how hard a person of Spider-man's strength could dish out, considering he'd be unrestrained in this fight.

Using the 'Doc Ock being punched' is a fail, Parker isn't a murderer and he's held in check by Uncle Ben's Law.

Forgot to add:

Even with a sword, Ozy's not hitting Spider-man before he gets his face punched in. A full-blow from Parker even in the shoulder would cripple Ozy.

This also isn't taking into account the webing he'd likely recieve via long range before the fight came to close quarters.

Only way Ozy wins here, is with extensive prep and Parker being ignorant to the plot.

id say that a sword would actually be a hindrance. contrary to what final fantasy and naruto say it takes more effort to swing a sword then to throw a punch. fighting with a sword makes you slower and offers you less angles of attack then if youre fighting with your hands. thus itd be poor judgment on your part to make yourself even slower against someone who can already dance around you in circles with his superior speed.

^ The black chic has a point.

Originally posted by Robtard
Very doubtful Ozy can react faster, despite your insistence, the movie feats prove you likely wrong.


Movie feats prove the exact opposite, actually.


Here's an example.

Peter Parker is dodging those blade star thingies. He barely dodges them.

They are traveling MUCH slower than bullets.



Originally posted by Robtard
Veidt by all accounts has peak human durability, he bruised and bleed when Niteowl beat on him; while Niteowl is very strong, he has nothing compared to how hard a person of Spider-man's strength could dish out, considering he'd be unrestrained in this fight.

Yet, Oto didnt' even bleed or bruise.


Therefore, Niteowl is > Spiderman in strenght.

Originally posted by Robtard
Using the 'Doc Ock being punched' is a fail, Parker isn't a murderer and he's held in check by Uncle Ben's Law.

Right...cept, not. He was trying to save Aunt May from certain death, after he had killed multiple people. Knocking out Doc Oc would've been a great thing to do.


Here's another reason:

How fast Parker's hands were moving. They were moving just as fast as a regular person's. In order for him to generate more force, he'd have to move them faster. Simply physics. This is why he wasn't punching through Doc Oc's head.







Knowing that, that would explain many other things, too.










But, fact is, Ozy is faster. Significantly faster.

However, Ozy can't block and dodge Parker's punches all day. Ozy has to have something that can damage Parker, like a blade. Punches will do jack against Spiderman.



I have to watch the movie again to see if Ozy has any weapons besides his fists.

Originally posted by Robtard
Forgot to add:

Even with a sword, Ozy's not hitting Spider-man before he gets his face punched in. A full-blow from Parker even in the shoulder would cripple Ozy.

This also isn't taking into account the webing he'd likely recieve via long range before the fight came to close quarters.

Only way Ozy wins here, is with extensive prep and Parker being ignorant to the plot.

That's why they are in a warehouse packed with stuff. It gives Ozy plenty of room to dodge as well as Spiderman.


I wanted this versus to be more ability thinking on their feet and ability.




Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
id say that a sword would actually be a hindrance. contrary to what final fantasy and naruto say it takes more effort to swing a sword then to throw a punch. fighting with a sword makes you slower and offers you less angles of attack then if youre fighting with your hands. thus itd be poor judgment on your part to make yourself even slower against someone who can already dance around you in circles with his superior speed.

Yeah, except, no.

The blade travel's faster because of simple lever physics. Veidt has more than enough reaction advantage on Spidey. He is also much more intelligent than spidey, making the sword and ance fight more of a Chess match for Veidt.

Parker would be on the defense, the whole time.


Also, there's other blades that could be used for their advantage, too.



And, since when does bringing a sword into a fight mean jack? If H2H combat was faster, then we wouldn't have things such as swords. That's a very poor reason to cite using a sword as bad.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Movie feats prove the exact opposite, actually.

Here's an example.

Peter Parker is dodging those blade star thingies. He barely dodges them.

They are traveling MUCH slower than bullets.



Yet, Oto didnt' even bleed or bruise.


Therefore, Niteowl is > Spiderman in strenght.

Right...cept, not. He was trying to save Aunt May from certain death, after he had killed multiple people. Knocking out Doc Oc would've been a great thing to do.


Here's another reason:

How fast Parker's hands were moving. They were moving just as fast as a regular person's. In order for him to generate more force, he'd have to move them faster. Simply physics. This is why he wasn't punching through Doc Oc's head.

Knowing that, that would explain many other things, too.

But, fact is, Ozy is faster. Significantly faster.

However, Ozy can't block and dodge Parker's punches all day. Ozy has to have something that can damage Parker, like a blade. Punches will do jack against Spiderman.

I have to watch the movie again to see if Ozy has any weapons besides his fists.

There were also several of them he had to keep tract of while twisting and dodging out of the way. Considering Goblin's strength, they were likely traveling extremely fast.

To ignore Parker's punching power in regards to his strength is just foolish, so you should stop. If Parker had taken out Ock with one hit, there wouldn't have been a movie.

Ozy couldn't block Parker's hits, they'd shatter him if he tried. As far as dodging, it's likely he couldn't dodge more than one.

Originally posted by dadudemon


And, since when does bringing a sword into a fight mean jack? If H2H combat was faster, then we wouldn't have things such as swords. That's a very poor reason to cite using a sword as bad.

Because people who historically fought with swords didn't fight super-powered beings and when you do connect with a sword, it's more damaging than a punch.

Originally posted by Robtard
There were also several of them he had to keep tract of while twisting and dodging out of the way. Considering Goblin's strength, they were likely traveling extremely fast.


Cept, not even anywhere close to bullets.

Originally posted by Robtard
To ignore Parker's punching power in regards to his strength is just foolish, so you should stop. If Parker had taken out Ock with one hit, there wouldn't have been a movie.

We can only go by movie feats, nothing else. We also have physics on our side now, too.

Originally posted by Robtard
Ozy couldn't block Parker's hits, they'd shatter him if he tried. As far as dodging, it's likely he couldn't dodge more than one.

He can. Now that I've figured out why Parker doesn't knock out regular humans with ease (it's a physics problem), then I understand.

Ozy can block them, no problem.

The problem is Ozy knocking out Parker or even damanging him.

We already know Ozy is faster than Parker, and Ozy's reaction time is better. It's just proving whether or not Ozy has a blade of some sort to damage parker.

Originally posted by Robtard
Because people who historically fought with swords didn't fight super-powered beings and when you do connect with a sword, it's more damaging than a punch.


R U kidding me?


Parker doesn't fight as fast as some real world humans. Fact.

He is good at dodging...but actually fighting, he throws punches just as slow as an average joe.

Originally posted by dadudemon
The blade travel's faster because of simple lever physics.


only on the downward stroke. the 'wind-up" of the blow takes longer however.




because a sword can end a fight in one blow regardless of where it hits even when people are wearing armor. a punch can not. that has to do with all the extra momentum behind a sword swing. notice that in my post i never said anything about the strength and cutting power only the speed.

Originally posted by dadudemon
R U kidding me?


Parker doesn't fight as fast as some real world humans. Fact.

such as?

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
such as?

Any seasoned martial artist.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Any seasoned martial artist.

where did this happen in the movies?

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
only on the downward stroke. the 'wind-up" of the blow takes longer however.

No, any time the blade is moving about a fulcrum, it travels much faster than the hands.


And, knowin Ozy, his blade would be ultra touch experimental metal that is also ultra light.

And, no, "wind up sword" strikes if for amatures, Claymores, and certain types of swings.

Nice try, but the sword slowness argument is a logical fallacy.



Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
because a sword can end a fight in one blow regardless of where it hits even when people are wearing armor. a punch can not. that has to do with all the extra momentum behind a sword swing. notice that in my post i never said anything about the strength and cutting power only the speed.


Doesn't change the fact that your argument is invalid. If we were talking about an unangered Reed Richards, you may have a point, but we are talking about a person whose reaction time is faster than PP's and has mastered many martial arts.

Originally posted by dadudemon
R U kidding me?


Parker doesn't fight as fast as some real world humans. Fact.

He is good at dodging...but actually fighting, he throws punches just as slow as an average joe.

No, super-powered beings don't actually exist.

I believe Ms. Marvel's point was that hitting Parker with a sword would be a bit harder than punching him, due to his speed/agility. Not the other way around.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, any time the blade is moving about a fulcrum, it travels much faster than the hands.

no.




no.



this doesnt even conflict with anything ive said.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
such as?

I don't understand the question. We are talking about real world martial artists versus PP's in movie fight scenes.

Why are you asking this question? If you are asking because you would like to know the names of real world martial artists who are faster than PP, then I cite every single one who has trained for a while.


If you want real names, just google search and any of them should work.

Originally posted by Robtard
I believe Ms. Marvel's point was that hitting Parker with a sword would be a but harder than punching him, do to his speed/agility. Not the other way around.

thank ye.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't understand the question. We are talking about real world martial artists versus PP's in movie fight scenes.

Why are you asking this question? If you are asking because you would like to know the names of real world martial artists who are faster than PP, then I cite every single one who has trained for a while.


If you want real names, just google search and any of them should work.

how about you just answer the question instead of dodging it?

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
no.

Basic physics. You can't deny it.




Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
no.

Yup. Sure would. Why would he use anything else? Do you have evidence that he would use something else?



Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
this doesnt even conflict with anything ive said.
What you said doesn't even conflict with what I said, hence why I said it. You can't make a strawman argument. Either negate my points or don't respond. That's how it works.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Cept, not even anywhere close to bullets.

We can only go by movie feats, nothing else. We also have physics on our side now, too.

He can. Now that I've figured out why Parker doesn't knock out regular humans with ease (it's a physics problem), then I understand.

Ozy can block them, no problem.

The problem is Ozy knocking out Parker or even damanging him.

We already know Ozy is faster than Parker, and Ozy's reaction time is better. It's just proving whether or not Ozy has a blade of some sort to damage parker.

We don't actually know, considering Goblin's physical strength, could be faster. Like I said pages ago, if anything, it's close.

Then if we do apply the laws of physics, someone with enough strength to stop a speeding out of control train can generate enough force to punch through a skull

He could try to block Peter's blows, they'd just shatter his arms and legs, due to the force and small area of contact, you know, physics.

Originally posted by dadudemon
What you said doesn't even conflict with what I said, hence why I said it. You can't make a strawman argument. Either negate my points or don't respond. That's how it works.

theres nothing to argue against. you havent even tried to back up anything youve said. why should i bother making any effort to do anything?

Originally posted by Robtard
No, super-powered beings don't actually exist.

"R U kidding me?


Parker doesn't fight as fast as some real world humans. Fact.

He is good at dodging...but actually fighting, he throws punches just as slow as an average joe. "

Originally posted by Robtard
I believe Ms. Marvel's point was that hitting Parker with a sword would be a but harder than punching him, do to his speed/agility. Not the other way around.

No it wouldn't.

I've already addressed that exact point.

"The blade travel's faster because of simple lever physics. Veidt has more than enough reaction advantage on Spidey. He is also much more intelligent than spidey, making the sword and ance fight more of a Chess match for Veidt.

Parker would be on the defense, the whole time.


Also, there's other blades that could be used for their advantage, too."




Veidt is faster than Parker. Fact.

Veidt fights faster than Parker. Fact.

Give Veidt an ultra light sword and he increases his striking speed even more. Fact.

childish.

Originally posted by Robtard
We don't actually know, considering Goblin's physical strength, could be faster. Like I said pages ago, if anything, it's close.

No, we know that it was much slower than bullets. Much slower.

We see Parker jump up a few feet and turn and rotate. His initial velocity, when jumping, has to be at a certain speed, in order to obtain the height in his jump that he did. We can compare the slow down in time to the height. It doesn't come any where close.

You're grasping with that point, there, Robtard. It's been many years since I've seen the film, but, I could have sworn we see them travel real time at one point, and then slow time.

Originally posted by Robtard
Then if we do apply the laws of physics, someone with enough strength to stop a speeding out of control train can generate enough force to punch through a skull

If only we had a movie feat for that. If only.

Since we see how fast his punches are, we know he's not generating near enough velocity to do that.

To further that point, since we see him fight not very much faster than normal peeps, it's obvious he can't do that.

Originally posted by Robtard
He could try to block Peter's blows, they'd just shatter his arms and legs, due to the force and small area of contact, you know, physics.

I agree that he could grab Veidt and snap his bones. That'd be reasonable, because he has the strenght to do that.

However, Veidt reacts faster and that is far too unlikely to happen to begin with. Besides, Vedit is the better Martial Artist. Very unlikely that Veidt would be even remotely stupid enough to get himself caught.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
theres nothing to argue against. you havent even tried to back up anything youve said. why should i bother making any effort to do anything?

Your denying that you're wrong. That's fine.

You can do a youtube seach and find any video show martial artists fighting faster than punches or kicks Spiderman threw. I can't.


You can google search and find many martial artists names.


Why should I waste my time proving the obvious to you? You know you're wrong. Your point fell flat on its face before I responded.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
childish.


Quoting what I've already covered is not chidish. It's intelligent as it saves time. No need to rehash.












Edit- As it stands right now:



Ozy cannot win without a blade to cut Spiderman.


If someone can watch Watchmen again, see if he has a blade with him. He doesn't have to use it...he just has to have one.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, we know that it was much slower than bullets. Much slower.

We see Parker jump up a few feet and turn and rotate. His initial velocity, when jumping, has to be at a certain speed, in order to obtain the height in his jump that he did. We can compare the slow down in time to the height. It doesn't come any where close.

You're grasping with that point, there, Robtard. It's been many years since I've seen the film, but, I could have sworn we see them travel real time at one point, and then slow time.



If only we had a movie feat for that. If only.

Since we see how fast his punches are, we know he's not generating near enough velocity to do that.

To further that point, since we see him fight not very much faster than normal peeps, it's obvious he can't do that.



I agree that he could grab Veidt and snap his bones. That'd be reasonable, because he has the strenght to do that.

However, Veidt reacts faster and that is far too unlikely to happen to begin with. Besides, Vedit is the better Martial Artist. Very unlikely that Veidt would be even remotely stupid enough to get himself caught.

Actually, during that scene it does that camera slow-down to illustrate Parker's super-abilities. So they very well likely been traveling at bullet speeds.

We do have movie feats of Spider-man's strength and how much force he can generate with his body. The train, the cable trolley, the metal wall, punching Goblin so he goes flying back; there are others.

Even with human speeds, that amount of force is punching through. So it's moot point.

No, Veidt is out-classed, rather simple. Give him a sword, he's not hitting Parker before Parker hits him; it'd be over. This is of course taking into accoount that Parker wouldn't just web him and the blade from a distance.

Are you trolling for fun or being serious?

Originally posted by Robtard
Actually, during that scene it does that camera slow-down to illustrate Parker's super-abilities. So they very well likely been traveling at bullet speeds.

No, based on how fast he jumps up and how slow they are traveling, I can eyeball it and tell you that they are not anywhere close to bullet speed.



They'd also have to create a sonic boom which would sound like a crack, if they are traveling close to bullet speed. Also, the Goblin's arm would have broken the sound barrier and also made a loud noise, there'd also be a shock wave, visable, in slow mo.


Even if they forgot all of that, there's the simple fact that they are traveling much slower than bullets.

Originally posted by Robtard
We do have movie feats of Spider-man's strength and how much force he can generate with his body. The train, the cable trolley, the metal wall, punching Goblin so he goes flying back; there are others.

But, the speed at which he generates that force is accumulated over time. It's slow.

Originally posted by Robtard
Even with human speeds, that amount of force is punching through. So it's moot point.

No, it is not. He'd have to generate enough speed to punch through. This is fact.

Originally posted by Robtard
No, Veidt is out-classed, rather simple. Give him a sword, he's not hitting Parker before Parker hits him; it'd be over. This is of course taking into accoount that Parker wouldn't just web him and the blade from a distance.


No, Veidt would outclass Spiderman in speed. Spiderman doesn't stand a chance. And, you're forgetting that Spiderman can't websling faster than a bullet. Not even close. Veidt can dodge bullets at close range. There's no hope for Parker if Veidt has a bladed weapon.


Originally posted by Robtard
Are you trolling for fun or being serious?

I was wondering the same about you.


On screen feats, only. PP cannot punch through people. Fact.

He throws punches just as slow as an average joe. Fact.


You're claiming otherwise. Fact.


Veidt has better speed feats than Parker. Fact.

Veidt's perception of time is slower than Parkers. Fact.


These points are not debatable.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Veidt could easily take several punches from Spiderman, no problem. This is fact. But would Spider-Man be effected by Veidt? The guy was taking a pounding from a giant Sandman. Spider-Man has tanked Goblin's grenades at point blank range. Both are superhuman IMO. But Spider-Man when it comes to strength, durability, and a few other things is in a completely different class.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
But would Spider-Man be effected by Veidt?

Nope. Not at all. Even Veidts super strenght to bust through a slab of solid Marble isn't enough strenght to damage Parker. It probably won't tickle, but it won't be enough.


This is why I say he has to have a blade.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
The guy was taking a pounding from a giant Sandman. Spider-Man has tanked Goblin's grenades at point blank range. Both are superhuman IMO. But Spider-Man when it comes to strength, durability, and a few other things is in a completely different class.

I agree on the Strength, Agility (not reaction speed, fighting speed, but Agility), and MAJORLY durability. Veidt is said to be every bit as agile as any Olympic athlete. That puts him right below Spiderman as Spiderman is above Olympic Athelete.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, based on how fast he jumps up and how slow they are traveling, I can eyeball it and tell you that they are not anywhere close to bullet speed.



They'd also have to create a sonic boom which would sound like a crack, if they are traveling close to bullet speed. Also, the Goblin's arm would have broken the sound barrier and also made a loud noise, there'd also be a shock wave, visable, in slow mo.


Even if they forgot all of that, there's the simple fact that they are traveling much slower than bullets.



But, the speed at which he generates that force is accumulated over time. It's slow.



No, it is not. He'd have to generate enough speed to punch through. This is fact.




No, Veidt would outclass Spiderman in speed. Spiderman doesn't stand a chance. And, you're forgetting that Spiderman can't websling faster than a bullet. Not even close. Veidt can dodge bullets at close range. There's no hope for Parker if Veidt has a bladed weapon.




I was wondering the same about you.


On screen feats, only. PP cannot punch through people. Fact.

He throws punches just as slow as an average joe. Fact.


You're claiming otherwise. Fact.


Veidt has better speed feats than Parker. Fact.

Veidt's perception of time is slower than Parkers. Fact.


These points are not debatable.

Dude, you jsut said you don't recall the scene well, but now you're telling me you know how fast Spider-man and the blades were travelling despite the scene being slowed because you "eye-balled it"? Going to call BS on this one, as you have no point of reference to how fast the camera was slowed.

His punches aren't "slow", he can punch at least as fast as a human, which is fast enough considering the power he'd be packing.

Spider-man dodges bullets, more than one too and while web-slinging. Be dodges both machine gun and shotgun fire, in SM2. Ergo, Spider-man can dodge a blade.

I see, the "he didn't specifically do something, so he can't do it" argument, despite him showing other greater feats that prove he could also do the lesser feat. Nice tactic, it's total BS, but nice.

Spider-man didn't do a lot of things, like lift a Honda, punch through cardboard, eat a whole wheat bagel, should we also assume he can't?

You're being a clown now.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Even Veidts super strenght to bust through a slab of solid Marble Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Veidt forcing Blake through the marble?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Veidt is said to be every bit as agile as any Olympic athlete. Source?

Originally posted by dadudemon
That puts him right below Spiderman as Spiderman is above Olympic Athelete. Even if Veidt was infact olympic level(which is below peak human by the way) he'd be miles away from Spider-Man in some areas. Only areas Veidt trumps Spider-Man in is in martial arts ability and intelligence. Veidt is comparable in speed and possibly superior in reaction speed.

Originally posted by Robtard
Dude, you jsut said you don't recall the scene well,


Correction:

No I didn't.


You're taking that out of context.

Here's what I said:

"It's been many years since I've seen the film, but, I could have sworn we see them travel real time at one point, and then slow time."



Oops


Gotta go.


I'll reply to the rest when I get back.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Veidt forcing Blake through the marble?

That makes it an even better strength feat. Is that what you're trying to indicate?

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Source?

Comics.


However, I don't have the comic.



Originally posted by Darth Martin
Even if Veidt was infact olympic level(which is below peak human by the way) he'd be miles away from Spider-Man in some areas. Only areas Veidt trumps Spider-Man in is in martial arts ability and intelligence. Veidt is comparable in speed and possibly superior in reaction speed.

Olympic level is peak human. And the wiki stated he was peak human...



Veidt is faster, both physically, and reaction time, than Spiderman...if we are to bo by the movies.

Originally posted by Robtard
His punches aren't "slow", he can punch at least as fast as a human, which is fast enough considering the power he'd be packing.

Nah. It's simple physics, bro.

Originally posted by Robtard
Spider-man dodges bullets, more than one too and while web-slinging. Be dodges both machine gun and shotgun fire, in SM2. Ergo, Spider-man can dodge a blade.

At a distance, while moving, from street thugs. We've been over this already.

Originally posted by Robtard
I see, the "he didn't specifically do something, so he can't do it" argument, despite him showing other greater feats that prove he could also do the lesser feat. Nice tactic, it's total BS, but nice.

Nah. We can't pull feats out of our ass. You know better.

Originally posted by Robtard
Spider-man didn't do a lot of things, like lift a Honda, punch through cardboard, eat a whole wheat bagel, should we also assume he can't?

This is when we use what's called logic. If Spiderman was seen going all out against a regular human with cybernetic arms, then we can only assume that he absolutely cannot punch through a human.

We also have how fast he was moving to also prove that.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're being a clown now.

No, it all actuality, you're being a Spiderman fanboy.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That makes it an even better strength feat. Is that what you're trying to indicate? I was under the impression that you were implying that Veidt punched directly through the marble. No, I was thinking the feat would be weaker because of it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Comics. I haven't read the graphic novel. But I've heard Veidt did nothing impressive stat-wise to be considered above peak human, if that. But the movies contradict this completely. We see him leap what looked to me like 10 feet, dodge/evade bullets to a degree, predict path/catch bullet, and display superhuman strength in knocking Rorschach multiple yards away with H2H combat manuevers.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Olympic level is peak human. And the wiki stated he was peak human. So what? Wiki can be altered and changed by you and I to say whatever we so please. It's hardly reliable when it comes to these kinds of things. Olympic level isn't Peak human if we're going by books or wiki. Peak human usually means superior to any olympic level athlete who has ever competed on record.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
I was under the impression that you were implying that Veidt punched directly through the marble. No, I was thinking the feat would be weaker because of it.

I haven't read the graphic novel. But I've heard Veidt did nothing impressive stat-wise to be considered above peak human, if that.

Dodging bullets AFTER they are fired. (There is a major difference between dodging bullets before they are fired, which is what spiderman and most everyone else does, and what Veidt did.), catching them, and simultaneously defeating in combat, two of the most skilled h2h fighters in the world...

Originally posted by Darth Martin
IBut the movies contradict this completely.

Not at all. In fact, some speculate they made Veidt stronger in the movie.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
We see him leap what looked to me like 10 feet, dodge/evade bullets to a degree, predict path/catch bullet, and display superhuman strength in knocking Rorschach multiple yards away with H2H combat manuevers.

Cool. So we are in almost an agreement here.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
So what? Wiki can be altered and changed by you and I to say whatever we so please.

Nah. I'm going with it beacuse it's written by the fans who happen to agree with me. That's what I thought from the comics. So that's what I'm sticking to. You can use a different set of parameters, I'm sticking with common perception.


Originally posted by Darth Martin
It's hardly reliable when it comes to these kinds of things. Olympic level isn't Peak human if we're going by books or wiki. Peak human usually means superior to any olympic level athlete who has ever competed on record.

Nah. I got my idea from the comics. I could have sworn they talked about him being peak human, activating all of his brain, etc.


No, peak human is at the best of human ability. Peak human would be an Olympic athlete. Peak human is just that: peak human. In fact, several superhereos are listed as peak human when they are not at the ceiling limit for peak human, yet are still considered that way for strength.

Where are you getting your idea of peak human from? (It's wrong, btw. But you obviously got it from somewhere.)











And, busting someone's head through the marble is certainly a lot harder than doing it outright. Here's why: The Comedian is not a solid object like a block of steal. He's flesh and blood. Lol. His flesh would have absorbed some of the blow, so he would have to have struck him harder than required to break it.

Like I said, I haven't read the book. Just going by what I hear. If the Veidt's feats on film were even remotely accurate to there potrayal in the book then I'd agree that he's above peak human.

Originally posted by dadudemon
In fact, some speculate they made Veidt stronger in the movie. Bingo. That's what this nerd here speculates.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Cool. So we are in almost an agreement here.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Where are you getting your idea of peak human from? (It's wrong, btw. But you obviously got it from somewhere.) I joined KMC because of the CBVF.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Like I said, I haven't read the book. Just going by what I hear. If the Veidt's feats on film were even remotely accurate to there potrayal in the book then I'd agree that he's above peak human.

From what I can tell, he is stronger and more durable than in the film. Other than that, he's spot on.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Bingo. That's what this nerd here speculates.


AHA!



Originally posted by Darth Martin
I joined KMC because of the CBVF.

That's cool.


But, peak human isn't nevessarily peak human potential, as we see several examples of charaters that are considered peak human strength that are not the full 800lbs.

What do you think. Agree?

Originally posted by dadudemon
But, peak human isn't nevessarily peak human potential, as we see several examples of charaters that are considered peak human strength that are not the full 800lbs.

What do you think. Agree? If were regarding comic books then I have top disagree. Regardless of what the handbooks sayt we see feats by characters all the time that contradict them. For example, the handbooks state Cap's maximum capacity is 800lbs. Yet we've seen him lift 1100 lbs. Same goes for Batman. People also confuse Marvel's system with DC's. They'll try and apply DC characters to Marvel's system and it just doesn't work.

You can be peak human in a certain area and not in the others. For example, Daredevil is atleast peak human in agility but might not be in other categories. Same goes for Nightwing.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
If were regarding comic books then I have top disagree. Regardless of what the handbooks sayt we see feats by characters all the time that contradict them. For example, the handbooks state Cap's maximum capacity is 800lbs. Yet we've seen him lift 1100 lbs. Same goes for Batman. People also confuse Marvel's system with DC's. They'll try and apply DC characters to Marvel's system and it just doesn't work.


Where is this fabled system from DC?


Also, that thing about Captain America. He bench pressed it, he didn't lift it over his head.

Lifting over the head is harder.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
You can be peak human in a certain area and not in the others. For example, Daredevil is atleast peak human in agility but might not be in other categories. Same goes for Nightwing.

This is correct. In the movie, Veidt is peak human intelligence, perception, reaction speed, strength, and durability.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nah. It's simple physics, bro.

At a distance, while moving, from street thugs. We've been over this already.

Nah. We can't pull feats out of our ass. You know better.

This is when we use what's called logic. If Spiderman was seen going all out against a regular human with cybernetic arms, then we can only assume that he absolutely cannot punch through a human.

We also have how fast he was moving to also prove that.

No, it all actuality, you're being a Spiderman fanboy.

I've seen slow moving metal punches go through sheet metal, they used force, not speed to go through. Spider-man's punches travelling a human speeds combined with his physical strength would go through a skull.

Still dodging multiple rounds, one being a shotgun shattering.

Not pulling feats out of my ass, you're just playing games now. He's strong enough to stop a train, yet a human skull is just too much for him? Ridiculous. The Doc Ock not dying has been covered, Parker isn't a killer and ending Ock that fast would equate to us not having a film, same reason why Jedi don't use their force abilities more often.

It's a moot point anyhow, as one punch to the face (or anywhere really) would end Veidt, crushing bone or no.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Where is this fabled system from DC? That's my point. There is no such thing unless you go on DC Database by Wikia. No concrete site or hanbook for strength in DC to my knowledge.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, that thing about Captain America. He bench pressed it, he didn't lift it over his head. He holds a falling skyscraper over his head which is stated to be over 1000 lbs. Check the respect thread.

Originally posted by dadudemon
In the movie, Veidt is peak human intelligence, perception, reaction speed, strength, and durability. Depends. If we judge him by movie characters I'd say he's superhuman. He'd probably just be high level street(hovering around peak human more or less) if we took him movie feats and ranked him in the Comic Book Tiers thread.

Originally posted by Robtard
I've seen slow moving metal punches go through sheet metal, they used force, not speed to go through. Spider-man's punches travelling a human speeds combined with his physical strength would go through a skull.


Except, no they wouldn't and didn't.


That point is dead.

Originally posted by Robtard
Still dodging multiple rounds, one being a shotgun shattering.

Which is still not better than Veidt dodging a bullet AFTER it was fired at him while he was stationary.


Also, the spread on buckshot at that range is still fairly clustered.

Originally posted by Robtard
Not pulling feats out of my ass, you're just playing games now. He's strong enough to stop a train, yet a human skull is just too much for him? Ridiculous.

Except, no.

Not seen in the film and his punches are not fast enough to have enough inertia.


Originally posted by Robtard
It's a moot point anyhow, as one punch to the face (or anywhere really) would end Veidt, crushing bone or no.

No it wouldn't. His punches didn't crush Oc's skull or face.


This is not even a point, anymore, Robtard. It is not debatable. If it didn't happen in the film, it isn't a feat.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
That's my point. There is no such thing unless you go on DC Database by Wikia. No concrete site or hanbook for strength in DC to my knowledge.

Then we go by what comic book fans consider and also what real world feats are.


If we go by the real world, Veidt was superhuman in multiple categories.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
He holds a falling skyscraper over his head which is stated to be over 1000 lbs. Check the respect thread.

I'm not sure what you're referring to, then. Holding it over his head, however, is still not lifting. It's holding.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Depends. If we judge him by movie characters I'd say he's superhuman. He'd probably just be high level street(hovering around peak human more or less) if we took him movie feats and ranked him in the Comic Book Tiers thread.

Yup.

Even in the comic books, peak human isn't necessarily the best.

No one in the real world can lift 800lbs over their head. Peak human would be someone who trained for years and reached genetic potential. No human has done that. So, the definition of peak human, even for comic books, is not really peak human, but a tad higher...when it comes to strength.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Except, no they wouldn't and didn't.

That point is dead.

Which is still not better than Veidt dodging a bullet AFTER it was fired at him while he was stationary.

Also, the spread on buckshot at that range is still fairly clustered.

Except, no.

Not seen in the film and his punches are not fast enough to have enough inertia.

No it wouldn't. His punches didn't crush Oc's skull or face.


This is not even a point, anymore, Robtard. It is not debatable. If it didn't happen in the film, it isn't a feat.

Instead of playing silly games, use logic, I'm sure you can. If a greater feat is done, it stands to reason a lesser one can be accomplished. Might as well argue that Superman can't crush a beer can, 'cuz he didn't crush one in the film'.

Originally posted by Robtard
Instead of playing silly games, use logic, I'm sure you can. If a greater feat is done, it stands to reason a lesser one can be accomplished. Might as well argue that Superman can't crush a beer can, 'cuz he didn't crush one in the film'.

No. You're missing it.



Spiderman would have to throw a punch absurdly fast to go through the bones. It's simple physics. He never is shown throwing punches absurdly fast. Sure, superhuman agility and durability is shown.










This is the last time I respond to "Spiderman can punch through heads." He simiple didn't and was shown otherwise.

Logic dictates that Spiderman can punch through a head. Great. Not what happens in the films. We can only guy by film feats. He was shown being pissed off and was trying his hardest to free his Aunt. Didn't happen and he couldn't punch fast enough to knock out Oc.













At worst, he would send Veidt a few feet. Still wouldn't knock out Veidt as he took just as much from The Comedian.

You're missing simple movie logic, many heroes could end a fight early and simpler, they don't, why? Because there's a movie to be had. It's also explained that in the Uncle Ben clause, that Parker isn't a killer and holds back.

-Gandalf should have just called in the hawk squadron, grabbed Frodo, jumped on the back of one of the birds, flown over Mt Doom and just dropped the ring (and Frodo) in, the end. But what kind of story would that be.

-Jedi should just use their force powers to take out shielded droids, they don't.

Anyhow, now you're saying Spider-man would only 'knock Veidt back a few feet at worst?' Talk about a willful adherence to illogic. He sent Flash flying far further than that, he also wasn't trying to kill him, as he would Veidt here.

Guess Superman can't punch through skulls either, 'cuz it wasn't shown.'

Originally posted by Robtard
Anyhow, now you're saying Spider-man would only 'knock Veidt back a few feet at worst?' Talk about a willful adherence to illogic. He sent Flash flying far further than that, he also wasn't trying to kill him, as he would Veidt here.

Guess Superman can't punch through skulls either, 'cuz it wasn't shown.'

Because:

1. Veidt is much much stronger than flash.

2. Veidt is much much more agile than flash.

3. Veidt is much much more durable than Flash.



Also, Superman wasn't seen fighting his hardest to save his "mom", now was he?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Because:

1. Veidt is much much stronger than flash.

2. Veidt is much much more agile than flash.

3. Veidt is much much more durable than Flash.



Also, Superman wasn't seen fighting his hardest to save his "mom", now was he?

Those three points have no bearing on Spider-man knocking Veidt back after he's been hit, which was your premise on Spider-man only 'knocking Vedit a couple of feet back, at the worst.'

Superman was seen punching at human speeds though; by your 'logic', he can't generate enough "inertia" to go through a human skull.

Does Ozy like have a super strong human skull? Or is he just flesh and bone like us?

Lol @ "Inertia"

Originally posted by Robtard
Gandalf should have just called in the hawk squadron, grabbed Frodo, jumped on the back of one of the birds, flown over Mt Doom and just dropped the ring (and Frodo) in, the end. But what kind of story would that be?

That story would be both funny and sad (but mostly funny).

Originally posted by dadudemon
Except, no they wouldn't and didn't.


That point is dead.




I disagree, DDM, I think that his point stands.
If you sledgehammered someone in the face at human speed with a sledgehammer, that face/skull would go through, man.

Superman would definitely through his mass etc be able to go through.
That it is likely that he can be punching at superspeed just cements the fact that the view that "Superman can punch through a human skull" is ridiculous.

This "Onscreen feats" rule when distorted to this extreme (like any rule distorted to the extreme in threads) is tantamount to the dual crimes of gimpery and tomfoolery, sir.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
I disagree, DDM, I think that his point stands.
If you sledgehammered someone in the face at human speed with a sledgehammer, that face/skull would go through, man.


This would be a no sequitor intertial fallacy.


Sledge weighs more. Also, the majority of the mass is at the end of the sledge. Also, a sledge is solid, meaning their is no inertial loss upon impact from the skin absorbing some of the translational energy, the bones "squishing" together, and the cartilage compacting.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Superman would definitely through his mass etc be able to go through.
That it is likely that he can be punching at superspeed just cements the fact that the view that "Superman can punch through a human skull" is ridiculous.

Superman could punch through a skull because he can move at super speed, has fought at superspeed, etc. When superman goes all out, it's obvious.


However, when Spiderman went all out, he couldn't even knock out a human. The answer is obvious: he wasn't swinging any faster than a regular human would...meaning he wasn't building up enough inertia to knock Oc the f*ck out.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
This "Onscreen feats" rule when distorted to this extreme (like any rule distorted to the extreme in threads) is tantamount to the dual crimes of gimpery and tomfoolery, sir.

Glad I'm not doing that and you guys are, though.

I haven't given Ozy any feats that weren't shown on screen. Why should I do it for Parker?



Still, it still stands that Ozy loses without a blade.





I swear to jebus, as soon as I watch this film again, I'm going to check to see if Ozy ever had a blade: in his office, on his person, referenced, etc.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Superman could punch through a skull because he can move at super speed, has fought at superspeed, etc. When superman goes all out, it's obvious.


No, not according to movie feats, when we see Superman punch (in SM2), he punches are normal human speeds, ergo, by applying the same logic you applied to Spider-man above, he couldn't generate enough "inertia" to go through a skull.

Originally posted by dadudemon Not seen in the film and his punches are not fast enough to have enough inertia.

DDM brings up a good point in Ock. Is Spider-Man fighting in character or bloodlusted? Does Ock have superhuman durability?

Originally posted by dadudemon
At worst, he would send Veidt a few feet. Still wouldn't knock out Veidt as he took just as much from The Comedian. Veidt didn't take anything from Blake. Besides Blake grabbing Veidt I don't recall Blake ever physically touching Veidt offensively in the fight(which speaks volumes of Veidt's skill/speed). Again, we cannot compare Spider-Man to the Comedian.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
DDM brings up a good point in Ock. Is Spider-Man fighting in character or bloodlusted? Does Ock have superhuman durability?


Already covered with logic, Spider-man isn't a murderer, so he holds back, see: Uncle Ben's Law. Ock is just a human.

It would also make for a poor story, if the Hero just won in the first 15 mins.

If that's so Spider-Man must have been punching Ock at our level. Otherwise he wouldn't be able to get up.

For this thread, is Spider-Man fighting in character or is he bloodlusted. For Veidt it doesn't matter seeing in how he'll be going for the kill.

It's assumed that all VS characters are going all out, unless specified by the thread starter that they're holding back. For objectivity reasons.

So yes, Spider-man is trying to kill Veidt and Veidt is trying to kill Spider-man, to both their max potential.

Originally posted by Robtard
No, not according to movie feats, when we see Superman punch (in SM2), he punches are normal human speeds, ergo, by applying the same logic you applied to Spider-man above, he couldn't generate enough "inertia" to go through a skull.

The difference is Superman has gone superspeed. We see hum run superspeed, therefore, he can move his arms fast enough.


Pay attention.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
If that's so Spider-Man must have been punching Ock at our level. Otherwise he wouldn't be able to get up.

For this thread, is Spider-Man fighting in character or is he bloodlusted. For Veidt it doesn't matter seeing in how he'll be going for the kill.

Logic dictates that Spiderman WAS bloodlusted. Why would Spiderman let his Aunt die after Oc had killed many people, already?

Simple: he wouldn't. He learned his lesson with the thief that later killed Uncle Ben.











I will no longer debate the fanboyish idea that movie spiderman can punch through a human. He might be able to, but he didn't. He certainly never showed the ability to move fast enough to move his fist through human flesh. Superman has.

Originally posted by dadudemon
The difference is Superman has gone superspeed. We see hum run superspeed, therefore, he can move his arms fast enough.


Pay attention.
Originally posted by dadudemon
He might be able to, but he didn't. He certainly never showed the ability to move fast enough to move his fist through human flesh. Superman has.

Pay attention, you can not arbitarily decide when to take the "seen on film" rule to the most absurb regions, logic be damned, and then ignore the absurdness you dictated when it suits you.


So when has Superman punched at these super-speeds? Not ran, flown, jumped, skipped or farted; punched? If you can't show it, then by your 'logic', Superman can't generate the needed "inertia" in his fist to go through a skull.

Because Spider-man has moved at super-human speeds too, he was so when he was in the zone during the Flash fight scene.

Originally posted by Robtard
Pay attention, you can not arbitarily decide when to take the "seen on film" rule to the most absurb regions, logic be damned, and then ignore the absurdness you dictated when it suits you.


So when has Superman punched at these super-speeds? Not ran, flown, jumped, skipped or farted; punched? If you can't show it, then by your 'logic', Superman can't generate the needed "inertia" in his fist to go through a skull.

Because Spider-man has moved at super-human speeds too, he was so when he was in the zone during the Flash fight scene.


Pay attention.

Spiderman never moved at superspeeds.

"I will no longer debate the fanboyish idea that movie spiderman can punch through a human. He might be able to, but he didn't. He certainly never showed the ability to move fast enough to move his fist through human flesh. Superman has."

Originally posted by dadudemon
Spiderman never moved at superspeeds. He dodged Goblin's projectiles in the burning building. Why would he have to run? He spins webs.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Pay attention.

Spiderman never moved at superspeeds.

"I will no longer debate the fanboyish idea that movie spiderman can punch through a human. He might be able to, but he didn't. He certainly never showed the ability to move fast enough to move his fist through human flesh. Superman has."

Ha, 'moving the goal post', now. Nice tactic.

Do get back to me when you're able to show where Superman punched at greater than normal speeds, 'cuz you know, seen on film, or they can't do it', logic be damned.


Or you can just stop being absurd and let logic in.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
He dodged Goblin's projectiles in the burning building. Why would he have to run? He spins webs.

The Flash fight scene is a perfect example. when the camera slows down to illustrate how fast he's moving in relation to Flash's punches.

Not that'd he'd need a faster punch than an average person's to tear flesh and crush bone, with the strength-level he's at.

That as well. It clearly shows time slowing down for Parker similar to as it does for Matrix characters.

Originally posted by Robtard
Ha, 'moving the goal post', now. Nice tactic.

Do get back to me when you're able to show where Superman punched at greater than normal speeds, 'cuz you know, seen on film, or they can't do it', logic be damned.

Edit: Hulk too, he never punched at super-speeds. So he can't go through bone or flesh either, it seems.

Or you can just stop being absurd and let logic in.

Since we know Superman can move at super speeds, then we can logically conclude that he could punch through a human body.


Since Spiderman never did, we can never assume, in consort with the films, that Spiderman can generate enough force to quickly punch through human flesh.

Sure, he could probably set a human on a piece of wood that had a hole in the center and as long as he could get enough leverage, he could force his fist through the guts of that human. But where is he going to get the leverage? Even if spiderman is standing straight up with one fist right on the human's guts, that is still not nearly enough force to push through the flesh.







Do you understand NOW why Spiderman didn't punch through Doc Oc's head?


Spiderman COULD have ripped Doc OC's head off. FACT.


Spiderman COULD rip Ozy's head off. FACT.



You can debate that point, if you want to.


Fail on Hulk, btw.

1. Hulk can generate enough explosive speed. If he were the size of Parker, he could punch right through flesh. Newb.

2. Hulk's arm weighs more than Parker does. With his explosive speed, sure he could punch through flesh...if it were a blue whale.

3. You newb. Hulk's fist has some much surface area that it would just smash and crush the flesh and bone. It would pulverize it. Part of creating enough inertia is also creating enough concentrated force, in a small area, in order to punch through the flesh.

I've already told you why he didn't crush Ock's face; it's not because he lacks the physical ability to do it. Ock didn't even bleed, even if Parker where human, Ock would have had a bloody nose.

If you were given the tremendous level of strength capable of stopping a 250 ton out of control train being pushed by the several thousand tons of torque it's engines where generating, you could go through someone's face, while only punching as fast as you can now.

In short: Unless you're exceptionally slow, a human's punch is fast, very fast, add super-duper strength; there you have it.

So just stop and apply logic.

Originally posted by Robtard
I've already told you why he didn't crush Ock's face; it's not because he lacks the physical ability to do it. Ock didn't even bleed, even if Parker where human, Ock would have had a bloody nose.

If you were given the tremendous level of strength capable of stopping a 250 ton out of control train being pushed by the several thousand tons of torque it's engines where generating, you could go through someone's face, while only punching as fast as you can now.

In short: Unless you're exceptionally slow, a human's punch is fast, very fast, add super-duper strength; there you have it.

So just stop and apply logic.

Fact fail.

The train weighed more.


The engines were turned off at one point.


A human punch is VERY slow, relative to a bullet. And spiderman can't punch faster than bullets, but Ozy can certainly react faster than bullets.



Just stop. Your logic is so pitiful.



Show me where parker punches fast enough to punch through flesh. Show me where he moved his fists fast enough to do so.

I'll concede the point if you do.




Both your superman and Hulk excuses were pitiful, as well.




Again, this isn't about Spiderman winning. It's about Ozy losing.


Spiderman winning is almost assured, unless Ozy gets a blade. Focus on that.

-It was a rough estimate, train weighing more only adds to the tons of force Parker could put behind a punch, unrestrained.

-Actually, the train conductor said "I can't stop it", after Ock set the train to full throttle and ripped out the controls.

-Objects don't have to travel as fast as bullet to break skin and bone.

-Parker punches at least as fast as an average person, probably faster, since he's lean and fit (from a movie standpoint, he can move at some degree of super-speeds, but we'll let that slide, just for you). Add several tons of force behind that average punch, combined with the smallish surface area of his knuckles/fist. It can go through human skin and bone.

-You set the absurb rules, if Superman and Hulk weren't shown punching at super-speeds, then by your logic, they can't generate enough "inertia" to go through, that's all you, son.

Originally posted by Robtard
-It was a rough estimate, train weighing more only adds to the tons of force Parker could put behind a punch, unrestrained.

-Actually, the train conductor said "I can't stop it", after Ock set the train to full throttle and ripped out the controls.

Yet, it stopped eventually with Parker's help. As soon as he let it go, it should have continued. This means that, eventually, the engines stopped driving the train.


I thought you would have picked up on that, being the "spiderman can punch through a human" person you are.

Originally posted by Robtard
-Objects don't have to travel as fast as bullet to break skin and bone.


This was never in question.

Originally posted by Robtard
-Parker punches at least as fast as an average person,


I agree. Probably faster?

\Originally posted by Robtard
-Add several tons of force behind that average punch, combined with the smallish surface area of his knuckles/fist. It can go through human skin and bone.

Except, no. He has to move his fist fast enough to do that. In order for him to produce that, he has to be able to put that strength behind the punch. He can't do it as he doesn't weigh enough and he can't move fast enough. He' have to anchor himself on something and use the strength of his body to do so.

\Originally posted by Robtard
-You set the absurb rules, if Superman and Hulk weren't shown punching at super-speeds, then by your logic, they can't generate enough "inertia" to go through, that's all you, son.

No. This is where you use deductive reasoning. Hulk can produce massive forces, causing himself to move very fast. Much faster than a human. Absurdly faster. He moved like a 1000 miles in a day. His body can generate a shit ton of force, in split seconds, or else he couldn't launch himself as far as he can. Do you know how fast his legs have to move in order for him to propel himself in such a massive jump? That's what you're missing, Robtard.





I promise. Lol


this time...fer real


I will not address any further attempts to justify a punch through human punch from movie Spiderman.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yet, it stopped eventually with Parker's help. As soon as he let it go, it should have continued. This means that, eventually, the engines stopped driving the train.

I thought you would have picked up on that, being the "spiderman can punch through a human" person you are.

This was never in question.

I agree. Probably faster?

\

Except, no. He has to move his fist fast enough to do that. In order for him to produce that, he has to be able to put that strength behind the punch. He can't do it as he doesn't weigh enough and he can't move fast enough. He' have to anchor himself on something and use the strength of his body to do so.

\

No. This is where you use deductive reasoning. Hulk can produce massive forces, causing himself to move very fast. Much faster than a human. Absurdly faster. He moved like a 1000 miles in a day. His body can generate a shit ton of force, in split seconds, or else he couldn't launch himself as far as he can. Do you know how fast his legs have to move in order for him to propel himself in such a massive jump? That's what you're missing, Robtard.

I promise. Lol

this time...fer real

I will not address any further attempts to justify a punch through human punch from movie Spiderman.

Because when an engine is forcibly stopped by outside means, it tends to stall. Most logical. Either way, train stopping was a show of complete burt force, engines or no.

He is anchored, as his feet/hands can stick to surfaces.

Ha, no. I know Hulk can go through flesh and bone, as he has the physical force to so so; that isn't the issue. The issue: Applying the logic you applied to Spider-man, he couldn't, 'cuz Hulk he never punched at super-speeds on film, ergo he can generate the inertia.' Spider-man can also jump great distances; he's done it on film. Not Hulk leaps, but super-human nonetheless.

You're absurdly twisting the 'seen on film' rule when you want, then dismissing what you laid before and applying logic when it suits you.

So. How about that durability of Spiderman?

Doesn't look like Ozy wins without a blade.

I'm astounded that this has gotten to 7 pages.

Jeez...Is this how I sounded in the Swagger/Batman thread?

If by "sounded" you mean, silly, illogical and whining, then yes; you also sound like that in most threads.

I kid.

I meant going on and on and on and on and on about the same thing.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Jeez...Is this how I sounded in the Swagger/Batman thread?

In a word...Yes.

Lesson learned, man.....Its a two way street, though.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Lesson learned, man.....Its a two way street, though.

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2369487/2/istockphoto_2369487_one_way_street_sign.jpg

Originally posted by dadudemon

I will not address any further attempts to justify a punch through human punch from movie Spiderman.

Just so we are clear the argument you are making is that guys who can dent metal and destroy brick work and concrete with errent blow can not do the same to human bones and tissue. Good grief man if thats the case why don't we build bunkers out of corpses instead of contrete or weapons out of bone instead of metal.

Lets have fun with a few other things you've said. The basis for your argument that Parker can't bust heads is a speed issue. Well lets see people have cracked each others skulls with such fine implement as rocks, hammers, and bats. Now bats and hammers aside for a moment. A rock isn't going to be much longer if at all then a persons arm, ecspecialy if they have it palmed. So any talk about the weapon adding to the leverage or fulcrum etc of the user is out. Rocks being heavy and the like tend to slow a swing down when used as a bludgeon. So speed is out. So how is it then that rocks can bust heads? Their is also the issue of hydraulic presses, car crushers and the like that while they do not move super fast. Crush cars. Unless of course you think a human is tougher then a car.

Lets address the issue of reaction time. Just before his fight with Flash we see how Parker views the world. I fly shown flapping its wings gets off maybe 2-3 flaps in 4 seconds(Parker time). Fly's in real life flap their wings something like 200 times a second. Even if we round up to 5 flaps in 4 seconds. It means Peter is experiencing a second like it is a minute more or less. Meaning that a bullet traveling at 400fps(Colt .45) would be the equivlent of an object moving at less then 10mph to Parker. Most of us could dodge 10mph projectiles and ball players hit objects traveling 100mph. In other words bullet move very slow for Mr. Parker. Much slower then they seemed to move for Adrien.

Originally posted by Nightstick
Just so we are clear the argument you are making is that guys who can dent metal and destroy brick work and concrete with errent blow can not do the same to human bones and tissue. Bingo. We have a winner.

Originally posted by Robtard
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2369487/2/istockphoto_2369487_one_way_street_sign.jpg Bullshit, takes two to tango.

Originally posted by Nightstick
Just so we are clear the argument you are making is that guys who can dent metal and destroy brick work and concrete with errent blow can not do the same to human bones and tissue. Good grief man if thats the case why don't we build bunkers out of corpses instead of contrete or weapons out of bone instead of metal.

No. That's not what I said at all. I am saying that Spiderman cannot generate enough speed in a punch, unless anchored, in order to accomplish that. There's not arguing this point. It's simple physics. In order for Spiderman to pull that off, he'd have to punch near about half the speed of a bullet.

Originally posted by Nightstick
JLets have fun with a few other things you've said. The basis for your argument that Parker can't bust heads is a speed issue. Well lets see people have cracked each others skulls with such fine implement as rocks, hammers, and bats. Now bats and hammers aside for a moment. A rock isn't going to be much longer if at all then a persons arm, ecspecialy if they have it palmed. So any talk about the weapon adding to the leverage or fulcrum etc of the user is out. Rocks being heavy and the like tend to slow a swing down when used as a bludgeon. So speed is out. So how is it then that rocks can bust heads? Their is also the issue of hydraulic presses, car crushers and the like that while they do not move super fast. Crush cars. Unless of course you think a human is tougher then a car.

Lets address the issue of reaction time. Just before his fight with Flash we see how Parker views the world. I fly shown flapping its wings gets off maybe 2-3 flaps in 4 seconds(Parker time). Fly's in real life flap their wings something like 200 times a second. Even if we round up to 5 flaps in 4 seconds. It means Peter is experiencing a second like it is a minute more or less. Meaning that a bullet traveling at 400fps(Colt .45) would be the equivlent of an object moving at less then 10mph to Parker. Most of us could dodge 10mph projectiles and ball players hit objects traveling 100mph. In other words bullet move very slow for Mr. Parker. Much slower then they seemed to move for Adrien.


I didn't read the rest because it was most likely rubbish. You had a false premise so whatever you concluded would also be false. For further insight into why you typed too much just to be wrong, read the thread.




I'm going back on what I said earlier.


Ozy wins, unarmed, no problem. He beats Spiderman senseless.

8 Pages of trolling by one person, and you all fell for it.

http://www.salagir.com/gfx/troll-web.jpg

Originally posted by Placidity
8 Pages of trolling by one person, and you all fell for it.


Uh. No. Sorry. Just because everyone else is a Spiderman fanboy, doesn't mean I'm a troll.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Uh. No. Sorry. Just because everyone else is a Spiderman fanboy, doesn't mean I'm a troll.

But. No. Sorry. Your whole style is troll.

Agreed.
And DDM did wellyou get 8 pages out of it, but his argument went the way of
Spiderman anchors himself to whatever he likes with his wallclimbing microhooks and smacks the c*** out of his target, be it wall, concrete or effeminate masked avenger human.

Far faster, far stronger, more agile, and vastly more durable. Spiderman owns.

/thread