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1. Spartan Red Team fully equipped
2. Rayne and Raziel
3. Tidus Zidane Squall
4. Samus
5. Mewtwo
6. Trance Kuja

Rules no time magic. 2 soul steals for the entire gauntlet. Kain gets best equipment. everyone gets best equipment but no time magic.

Loses at first team.

how so

Should have problems with first. Has already lost once to Raziel. Not sure about third. Goes down at fourth and fifth. Can't say anything about sixth.

I'm assuming that by Spartans you meant ones like Master Chief. And by team I'm thinking anywhere like 4 to 16.

I don't know the whole story of Halo, so I'm saying that they all have the same armor he does. Because of that Armor, Kain will have one hell of a time damaging them.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I'm assuming that by Spartans you meant ones like Master Chief. And by team I'm thinking anywhere like 4 to 16.

I don't know the whole story of Halo, so I'm saying that they all have the same armor he does. Because of that Armor, Kain will have one hell of a time damaging them.

He won't damage them. He isn't strong enough to even scratch their armor.

Yes. And a team of people he can't damage WILL overwhelm him.

Doesn't Kain have soul-stealing abilities and powerful magic? That's what I always hear from him and if that's true, a group of Spartans shouldn't be any trouble.

I'm guessing Kain fails in Round 2.

To steal a soul the Soul Reaver has to strike its opponent. It will not get through the armor to do so, BT manipulates the definition as loophole to say it can steal souls no matter what.

He only gets two soul steals anyway.

what kind of powerful magic does kain have

His best is probably time magic.

ouch... oh well better have back up magic

I can't wait to see what BT comes up with this time.

probably enough to get him to mewtwo with both soul steals in tact. but pokemon have no souls

If he got to MewTwo the spite would be epic.

i thought this would be a semi tough gauntlet for kain

Who is Trance Kuja?

villian in ff9 blows up a planet with ultima

lol mewtwo will have a new pet

Kain kills most of the gauntlet with ease, before reaching M2 he kills Trance Kuja then assaults M2, Kains no good like most characters against beings of incredible psy power that can react within an instant whch is why he would lose the majority against Starkiller who he would take a few wins using mist, thing is M2 apprently manipulated the weather on a global scale so Kain loses at M2, hes the only one in the gauntlet to pose a threat however.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice


I don't know the whole story of Halo, so I'm saying that they all have the same armor he does. Because of that Armor, Kain will have one hell of a time damaging them.

Yeah right............more like Kain wipes them out.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
He won't damage them. He isn't strong enough to even scratch their armor.

He wouldn't have to. He would only need to use Inspire Hate.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
He wouldn't have to. He would only need to use Inspire Hate.

Not sure that would work. According to what I remember Obsidian Fury saying, they have the intelligence of supercomputers. They are pretty adept thinkers. I think they would shake Inspire Hate of pretty swiftly.

Besides, no one Spartan can take any other out with ease. They can take more beating than they can give out.

its a spell not a psychic attack, not to mension Kain does not have to hit their armour, just rip out their souls or freeze them in time, I dont think Kain actually has to kill his opponent to win this, since it is still a defeat.

And hows all their gadgets agains lightning? will they short circuit?

but as A.I said, inspire hate will do. Having a clever or fast thinking mind does not mean you can defend yourself from a psychic or indeed a spell if the spell could be defended against by anything other than a magical resistance, its just illogical.

And besides does'nt Kain have his Mist ability?..................there goes them Halo soldiers weapons use down the drain.

Originally posted by Burning thought
its a spell not a psychic attack, not to mension Kain does not have to hit their armour, just rip out their souls or freeze them in time, I dont think Kain actually has to kill his opponent to win this, since it is still a defeat.

Spell or not, it is attacking their psyche. A psyche that is far beyond that of mortal men. And would Kain really have to waste his two soul taps on the Spartans? He only has two, and I think there are seven Red Team Spartans.

Originally posted by Burning thought
its a spell not a psychic attack, not to mension Kain does not have to hit their armour, just rip out their souls or freeze them in time, I dont think Kain actually has to kill his opponent to win this, since it is still a defeat.

And hows all their gadgets agains lightning? will they short circuit?

but as A.I said , inspire hate will do. Having a clever or fast thinking mind does not mean you can defend yourself from a psychic or indeed a spell if the spell could be defended against by anything other than a magical resistance, its just illogical.

Oh goddamn it. Anyway, I thought that time spells were disallowed in this match.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Oh goddamn it. Anyway, I thought that time spells were disallowed in this match.

Time spells are. And he's limited to taking two souls.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Spell or not, it is attacking their psyche. A psyche that is far beyond that of mortal men. And would Kain really have to waste his two soul taps on the Spartans? He only has two, and I think there are seven Red Team Spartans.

Far beyond? their mind is faster perhaps but that does not make them any more able to resist Kain getting into their minds, nor would it be able to suppress a sudden maddness and anger to attack their allies, have they show nto be able to do this? and its not attacking their psyke, its arranging it diffrently so they see their allies as their enemies.

Samus is perhaps the only obvious one Kain may need a soul steal for.

Also what is the durability of a Spartan? heat resistance, as I brought up earlier, lightning.

Kain is not going to be able to be hit by 1,2, prob not 3, 6 and Samus may be able ot hit him, I dont know much of her or her speed.

Originally posted by Burning thought
its a spell not a psychic attack, not to mension Kain does not have to hit their armour, just rip out their souls or freeze them in time, I dont think Kain actually has to kill his opponent to win this, since it is still a defeat.

And hows all their gadgets agains lightning? will they short circuit?

but as A.I said, inspire hate will do. Having a clever or fast thinking mind does not mean you can defend yourself from a psychic or indeed a spell if the spell could be defended against by anything other than a magical resistance, its just illogical.

kain has only 2 soul steals and no time powers.

I don't also see him getting by Trance Kuja... or to for that matter & spartan's suits are built for heat resistance also, they take plasma shots often & an auto-temp adjustment was added into the suit.

Kuja is weak, what feats do plasma shots have? auto-temp ajustement sounds just like a device to keep the wearer cool at all times, nothing to do with a protection against attacks.

kain has inumerable things to hit the spartans with, if one does not work another likely will. Either that or they die of old age

This makes me laugh. Kain can't damage the Spartans.

As for the mind things, Kain would have to be more intelligent with a more powerful mind to affect a Spartan's at all.

Mist doesn't help Kain at all either, since I've no doubt Spartans are faster in every way than Kain and he has to come out of mist to attack. I doubt any form of serious control over it as well.

If I remember correctly Kuja controls and manipulates mist

the first group has a minimum of 3 spartans. so soul stealing is out of the question to advance. 2nd group was a gimme fight kain should stomp. 3rd is more interesting tidus is untrained, squall was trained to be a mercenary and zidane was built to become better than kuja. 4th fight could be a simple "soul steal" otherwise its a tough one. the 5th should be the 6th. and trance kuja is just an added toss up fight depending on who can argue better.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
This makes me laugh. Kain can't damage the Spartans.

As for the mind things, Kain would have to be more intelligent with a more powerful mind to affect a Spartan's at all.

Mist doesn't help Kain at all either, since I've no doubt Spartans are faster in every way than Kain and he has to come out of mist to attack. I doubt any form of serious control over it as well.


Makes no logical sense troll, much like any and all of your arguments. Especially since this is a spell, not Kains mind were talking about so the effect is not debatable, I know full well the Spartans do not have magical resistance and I doubt they even have defences agianst psychic.

The Spartans will be miles away from Kain before they can even realise whats going on combined with teleport and mist, they will not know whats hit em before he inspires hate then constantly hits them with lightning storms, energy blasts, maybe he will go dimentional and slash them all quickly beheading them, their not made of adamantium.

The only really tough fight in this match is Samus, the only impossible fight for Kain is probably Mewtwo, tbh I dont know enough on him, I could probably find a weakness or two if someone showed me evidence but I know hes fairly quick and has some amazing TK.

Mewtwo shows mercy at the sight of 298 pokemon crying.

lol Pokemon dont kill people do they? maybe he will class Kain as a person and not kill him. Thing is ive heard M2 has a super computer speed brain but has he used his stronger forms of TK insanely fast? the only knowledge on him I have is a poor memory of the Pokemon movie, why did he throw little orbs of power at Mew if he could toss him about with an actual TK?

Mewtwo killed those scientist in the beggining of the movie, then later him & mew petrified ash I guess and all the pokemon cried except him and that heartless mew.

All I know is mewtwo was created from mew who supposedly has DNA of all pokemon. I guess they were equal, though I think they were building mewtwo to be better.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Makes no logical sense troll, much like any and all of your arguments. Especially since this is a spell, not Kains mind were talking about so the effect is not debatable, I know full well the Spartans do not have magical resistance and I doubt they even have defences agianst psychic.

The Spartans will be miles away from Kain before they can even realise whats going on combined with teleport and mist, they will not know whats hit em before he inspires hate then constantly hits them with lightning storms, energy blasts, maybe he will go dimentional and slash them all quickly beheading them, their not made of adamantium.

The only really tough fight in this match is Samus, the only impossible fight for Kain is probably Mewtwo, tbh I dont know enough on him, I could probably find a weakness or two if someone showed me evidence but I know hes fairly quick and has some amazing TK.

Yeah, real logic never makes much sense to you does it? You stopped saying childish all the time now, should I start a troll accusation count instead?

Has Kain ever used that spell to take over someone with a more powerful mind than his own? Hell, has he used that at all?

Mist and Teleporting make me laugh. Mist dash isn't fast at all, and teleportation will not help him do any real physical damage. I'm sure Spartans can react fast enough to dodge him anyway.

Your MewTwo argument is fail. Pokemon only don't kill because its a kids show. They are perfectly capable of killing their opponents, except maybe for other Pokemon.

MewTwo mindwipes Kain. Kain won't overpower MewTwo in that department either.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Yeah, real logic never makes much sense to you does it? You stopped saying childish all the time now, should I start a troll accusation count instead?

Has Kain ever used that spell to take over someone with a more powerful mind than his own? Hell, has he used that at all?

Mist and Teleporting make me laugh. Mist dash isn't fast at all, and teleportation will not help him do any real physical damage. I'm sure Spartans can react fast enough to dodge him anyway.

Your MewTwo argument is fail. Pokemon only don't kill because its a kids show. They are perfectly capable of killing their opponents, except maybe for other Pokemon.

MewTwo mindwipes Kain. Kain won't overpower MewTwo in that department either.

Ofcourse it does, problem is a childish mind like yours could never comprehend.

Does not even make sense, theres no "power" in the Spartans mind, simply more intelligent or faster maybe than a typical humans but its nothing to do with commandering a mind like Kain can, thus their screwed.

while in mist kain will just fly and be immune to any and all weapons they may try and use, teleport will not do damage, no youve grasped that perhaps, but all his other powers from range will, the Spartans would never be able to retaliate.

Ill use your argument against you, when has M2 wiped a mind as advanced as Kains?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ofcourse it does, problem is a childish mind like yours could never comprehend.

Does not even make sense, theres no "power" in the Spartans mind, simply more intelligent or faster maybe than a typical humans but its nothing to do with commandering a mind like Kain can, thus their screwed.

while in mist kain will just fly and be immune to any and all weapons they may try and use, teleport will not do damage, no youve grasped that perhaps, but all his other powers from range will, the Spartans would never be able to retaliate.

Ill use your argument against you, when has M2 wiped a mind as advanced as Kains?

Yay. 14 now.

A minds strength would be interpreted through how fast it can think, react, how intelligent the person is, and various other things. To take over something, you have to be able to overpower what is already in possession of said thing.

All I've ever seen Kain do in mist form is be useless and dash slowly to the side. And no, Kains other spells will not. That armor is made of pure win. The Inui that is Kain cannot penetrate walls of pure win.

M2 wiped a mind as advanced as Kains...probably when he wiped Ash's mind. But he mindwiped an entire group of people and Pokemon on the island, including an Alakazam, which have IQ ratings of 5000.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Yay. 14 now.

A minds strength would be interpreted through how fast it can think, react, how intelligent the person is, and various other things. To take over something, you have to be able to overpower what is already in possession of said thing.

All I've ever seen Kain do in mist form is be useless and dash slowly to the side. And no, Kains other spells will not. That armor is made of pure win. The Inui that is Kain cannot penetrate walls of pure win.

M2 wiped a mind as advanced as Kains...probably when he wiped Ash's mind. But he mindwiped an entire group of people and Pokemon on the island, including an Alakazam, which have IQ ratings of 5000.

Yeh, and when that thing has nothing to defend itself another force, its compeltly overpowered, e.g. Spartans mind defenceless against kains mind powers, or indeed his spell even more so...then their defeated.

By the sounds of it you dont know much of anything to do with Spartans at all yet your trying to debate for them....pathetic.

lol.......and he didnt mind wipe them, he altered their mind to forget what happened. IQ means nothing in overpowering someones mind.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yeh, and when that thing has nothing to defend itself another force, its compeltly overpowered, e.g. Spartans mind defenceless against kains mind powers, or indeed his spell even more so...then their defeated.

By the sounds of it you dont know much of anything to do with Spartans at all yet your trying to debate for them....pathetic.

lol.......and he didnt mind wipe them, he altered their mind to forget what happened. IQ means nothing in overpowering someones mind.

pHEwreYqs4g

strong willed people can block mind attacks. such as jabba the hut. mewtwo never mindwiped a strong minded person. he may have wiped an alakazam but we will never know because i dont speak pokemon.

bt explain how kain gets past match 3

...-EPICHEADDESK-

You mean to tell me, an Alakazam with powerful TK, which makes Kain's TK look like a gust of wind, is not strong willed? With psychic powers, andan IQ of 3000, it's easy to mindwipe?

You fail. Epicly. MewTwo is spitey spite, and Kain never makes it that far.

you dont know for sure if mewtwo wiped the pokemon's minds. he was preaching that pokemon didnt need trainers. he was probably hopin for them to rebel

Thats a force induced mind trick, under diffrent rules, for example apprently some creatures are not as affected by the force as others. I dont know much on SW but ive heard Hutts like Jabba are all fairly resistent to mind tricks like that. But you just brought up a good example of how willpower means nothing, its resistence thats important which is logical, because without passive resistence, having strong willpower is no good if you dont know when the opponent is going to use mind powers.

match 3? whats your move list, what can they all do? I have been told of random gameplay events and I assume Tidus is the FF10 version? I finished that game at its release but cannot remember any specific canon event that puts him at an advantage over kain or the typical character.

dont recall any feats since i have played those games in years. but zidane was built to surpass kuja

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
...-EPICHEADDESK-

You mean to tell me, an Alakazam with powerful TK, which makes Kain's TK look like a gust of wind, is not strong willed? With psychic powers, andan IQ of 3000, it's easy to mindwipe?

You fail. Epicly. MewTwo is spitey spite, and Kain never makes it that far.

TK? wow, thats going to work wonders against someone in your mind...what a terribly Screampaste answer...

First, explain how being strong willed helps against someone invading your mind, especially if you do not know when its coming and how to defend against it in the first place, you would need a specific technique, its not good just sitting there thinkign "his not taking my mind!!", its illogical that that would do anything at all.

IQ of 3k? once again, wonderful....the fact your extremely intelligent is really going help you, if old Einstein sat there going on about Maths in his oh so intelligent mind do you think thats going to stop a mental invasion?

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
dont recall any feats since i have played those games in years. but zidane was built to surpass kuja

Kuja has done nothing for Kain to be impressed by, and being built to surpass someone is very diffrent to actually surpassing them.

Here's a fact; Psychic types are resistant to psychic pokemon attacks, TADAH; it has epic resiistance, and epic will power, and MewTwo still skooled it.

kuja blew up a planet, created dragon armies from mist, created a summon, tanked bahamut's mega flare, destroyed a magical seal thousands of years old, and he won the final battle of FF9. kuja rocks shit

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
kuja blew up a planet, created dragon armies from mist, created a summon, tanked bahamut's mega flare, destroyed a magical seal thousands of years old, and he won the final battle of FF9. kuja rocks shit

but can he do this within 1/2 seconds...I doubt it....

And most of these sound overrated, ive had Trance Kuja debates before and the best opponetns could come up with is Kuja survived Bahmahts breath.....

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Here's a fact; Psychic types are resistant to psychic pokemon attacks, TADAH; it has epic resiistance, and epic will power, and MewTwo still skooled it.

I dont remember M2 ever mind controlling or indeed mind wiping anyone in that movie, show me.....All i remember is M2 bending Allakazams spoons or something like that.

Match three is not important as he doesn't pass Match 1.

Edit: Er. Late reply.

BT you missed Scream's point entirely too. That was an epic lol.

not really, his point is void if M2 never actually mind controlled Allakazam....thing is, i know he made dark pokemon, an army of them, if he could just mind control pokemon he would not have gone through the trouble. I wouldnt be surprised if he could not mind control at all.

He mindwiped everyone at the end of the movie so that they wouldn't remember that event ever took place.

He mindcontrolled Nurse Joy for at least a year while he built himself a castle on that island.

Thats not mind wiping, thats mind altering, theres a very very large difference. Which means he prob never wiped or controlled Allakazam, I rest my case.

It is mind altering, but only in the sense that you erase their memory.

if it tried that it would likely reach the same success as Marcus against young Kain, he could mind control completly a large number of adults, including the intelligent yet Kain was immune, Marcus was just able to read his thoughts.

Marcus is a human right? MewTwo isn't human, and he has psychic powers unlike anything else in the Pokemon world.

All of this is irrelevant though, since he doesn't make it past the first fight.

no, hes a vampire, a Vampire who can control a small army of people of varying intellects yet cannot even grasp the youngest,unwise and most clueless mind for even a second.

only you will troll and spam that, which would be fine if you could debate it but you cannot. Spartans can never reach or touch Kain and their not immune to damage.

Kain's never met anything on MewTwo's level. Hell, MewTwo rips Kain apart with TK, or subpunch's for the lolz.

Rips him apart? Kain can survive as weather particles, ripping him aparts going to do nothing. Tk is the only weapon M2 has that is of any use in this fight, Ill w8 until someone who actually knows M2 shows a feat of him doing something impressive and quickly with his TK that would destroy/disrupt Kain enough for him to be unable to kill M2.

If Kain teleports away he'd have forfeited. They can certainly hit Kain, since there's nothing to suggest he can dodge bullets.

Its not a forfeit if you keep out of an enemies effective range only to keep them hepless and under attack. He wouldnt need to dodge anything if hes made out of mist. Also he wouldnt have to dodge any bullets, hes got them inspired by hate nad killing eachother remember.

MewTwo can literally stop Kain from turning into Mist, and even if Kain does, MewTwo can still harm him, easily.

Also, Kain loses at the Spartans, as he has no way to kill them.

He has disrupted weaher patterns from what Ive heart, how quickly he did it and how much concentration he required i dont know.

Unless their unarmed Kain can use their own weapons against them even if he does not have the interest in mind controlling or disrupting them in that way.

Depending on M2 speed at using Psychic power, Kain could just turn into mist and when he tries his little weather manip, turn back into solid Kain and slice M2's head off. The guy has a fast mind but that does not mean his body can react as quickly nor does it mean he can call upon his power as fast.

MewTwo is FAR faster than Dragonite, who flies at 2500 miles per hour.

He uses his powers instantly, and he didn't need to concentrate at all to /kill everyone on the planet with a storm./

Also, he can literally use disable on Kain's abilities to stop him from using them entirely.

Disable mist, use Shadow ball. GG.

Isn't there a scene in the beginning of MewTwo just sitting there waving his wrist in a circle? Then it cuts out to the sky and the clouds are swirling?

MewTwo didn't just disrupt weather patterns, he manipulated the weather to create a storm powerful enough to destroy the world.

"Speed of psychic power?" Are you serious? Psychic power moves as fast as thought, duh.

Kain can't manipulate Mist form as well as you want him to. Unless of course you can provide a video of him doing something other than dashing lazily to the side.

Originally posted by Burning thought
but can he do this within 1/2 seconds...I doubt it....

And most of these sound overrated, ive had Trance Kuja debates before and the best opponetns could come up with is Kuja survived Bahmahts breath.....



I dont remember M2 ever mind controlling or indeed mind wiping anyone in that movie, show me.....All i remember is M2 bending Allakazams spoons or something like that.

it was basically instant, upon return back to gaia Kuja already had the planet being covered in mist, which recently the only thing making mist was destroyed.

he also can quickly create the creatures from mist, bahamut's attack nearly destroyed an entire city before he was stopped & it wasn't even Kuja's trance form who took the attack

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
MewTwo is FAR faster than Dragonite, who flies at 2500 miles per hour.

He uses his powers instantly, and he didn't need to concentrate at all to /kill everyone on the planet with a storm./

Also, he can literally use disable on Kain's abilities to stop him from using them entirely.

Disable mist, use Shadow ball. GG.

Great, very useful when kain just teleports, covering no physical space at all and appears next to him. Also show me M2 faster than this speed.

lol he never killed everyone on the planet and I just watched some M2 vids, he concentrates all the time, especially when he first begins he takes like 2/3 seconds to charge his power.

Disables pokemon DNA powers.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Isn't there a scene in the beginning of MewTwo just sitting there waving his wrist in a circle? Then it cuts out to the sky and the clouds are swirling?

MewTwo didn't just disrupt weather patterns, he manipulated the weather to create a storm powerful enough to destroy the world.

"Speed of psychic power?" Are you serious? Psychic power moves as fast as thought, duh.

Kain can't manipulate Mist form as well as you want him to. Unless of course you can provide a video of him doing something other than dashing lazily to the side.

I dunno but theres a scene where hes in a tank and he wakes up and takes several seconds to charge his power and an effort of will for each of his abiltiies. Its about as fast as Kains TK, only more powerful.

false, psychic power needs concentration as M2 shows us.

Mist form is just him with concious control over his form in mist. In-game he uses it to pass through grates (showing control over mist through objects and able to part the mist) and can control it from blowing around so he controls its form as well. Kain describes it:



Originally posted by SpadeKing
it was basically instant, upon return back to gaia Kuja already had the planet being covered in mist, which recently the only thing making mist was destroyed.

he also can quickly create the creatures from mist, bahamut's attack nearly destroyed an entire city before he was stopped & it wasn't even Kuja's trance form who took the attack

Show me?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Disables pokemon DNA powers.


I dunno but theres a scene where hes in a tank and he wakes up and takes several seconds to charge his power and an effort of will for each of his abiltiies. Its about as fast as Kains TK, only more powerful.

false, psychic power needs concentration as M2 shows us.

Mist form is just him with concious control over his form in mist. In-game he uses it to pass through grates (showing control over mist through objects and able to part the mist) and can control it from blowing around so he controls its form as well. Kain describes it:

I need to know what you're talking about with the bold.

Thats where the movie first starts, and he literally just woke up after having a dream. Its the first time he was ever awake.

You would have to prove theres any kind of strong wind and would have to prove he can hold it for prolonged periods of time.

I've no doubt MewTwo can TK Kain's mist form as well.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I need to know what you're talking about with the bold.

Thats where the movie first starts, and he literally just woke up after having a dream. Its the first time he was ever awake.

You would have to prove theres any kind of strong wind and would have to prove he can hold it for prolonged periods of time.

I've no doubt MewTwo can TK Kain's mist form as well.

Its not directed at you

Yeh, damned shame for him....

hes outside all the time, I dont have to prove any of those things based on the fact he can hold it indefinatley in Blood omen. Theres also no logical strain on his being for him not to be able to hold it. its not magical, its just a skill he can do through supernatural means.

youtube it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its not directed at you

Yeh, damned shame for him....

hes outside all the time, I dont have to prove any of those things based on the fact he can hold it indefinatley in Blood omen. Theres also no logical strain on his being for him not to be able to hold it. its not magical, its just a skill he can do through supernatural means.

Well if its something as full of fail as what you usually say, I'd like to be able to yell at you for it. I'm just REALLY hoping you weren't planning on saying that it only disables Pokemon abilities.

As usual, over look or ignore the point. Good job.

So? If there's no wind then it means nothing. MewTwo could just mess with him and hurl a rock at him to scatter the mist and laugh as Kain's consciousness fades from existence because he can't pull himself together.

So far there's no reason to believe he can change direction mid form, maintain the form if scattered, or even survive if the vapor was to come under extreme heat or sunlight.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Rips him apart? Kain can survive as weather particles, ripping him aparts going to do nothing. Tk is the only weapon M2 has that is of any use in this fight, Ill w8 until someone who actually knows M2 shows a feat of him doing something impressive and quickly with his TK that would destroy/disrupt Kain enough for him to be unable to kill M2.

Ripping Kain apart is not the same as Kain going into his mist form. One is a voluntary seperation of condensed gas, the other is a sudden, involuntary, shredding of solid flesh.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Rips him apart? Kain can survive as weather particles, ripping him aparts going to do nothing. Tk is the only weapon M2 has that is of any use in this fight, Ill w8 until someone who actually knows M2 shows a feat of him doing something impressive and quickly with his TK that would destroy/disrupt Kain enough for him to be unable to kill M2.

Shadowcat can phase through solid material and survive while intangible. Ramming her head through a wall won't do anything to her at all...wait...what?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice


As usual, over look or ignore the point. Good job.

So? If there's no wind then it means nothing. MewTwo could just mess with him and hurl a rock at him to scatter the mist and laugh as Kain's consciousness fades from existence because he can't pull himself together.

So far there's no reason to believe he can change direction mid form, maintain the form if scattered, or even survive if the vapor was to come under extreme heat or sunlight.

As usual playing silly bugger, good job.

Theres always air current....hes outside so that means hes stopping his mist from being blown away. cant pull himself together? he does it all the time and try tossing rock into mist, it doesnt suddenly blow apart....it just flies through it.. thing is M2 wont get the chance, Kain would have beheaded him before the rock flies at him.

Well yes there is, he seeps through objects as a form and can reform solid afterwards, as i said, seeps through objects, his mist would have to be seperated to go through bars for example. heat/sunlight does not destroy mist, it may simply make more which will make it harder for m2, who is already dead by now.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Ripping Kain apart is not the same as Kain going into his mist form. One is a voluntary seperation of condensed gas, the other is a sudden, involuntary, shredding of solid flesh.

Point being Kain can transform his body and control its form even when made of a diffrent material and all over the place, cutting him up will be useless, he will just mist and reform.

Originally posted by Burning thought
As usual playing silly bugger, good job.

Theres always air current....hes outside so that means hes stopping his mist from being blown away. cant pull himself together? he does it all the time and try tossing rock into mist, it doesnt suddenly blow apart....it just flies through it.. thing is M2 wont get the chance, Kain would have beheaded him before the rock flies at him.

Well yes there is, he seeps through objects as a form and can reform solid afterwards, as i said, seeps through objects, his mist would have to be seperated to go through bars for example. heat/sunlight does not destroy mist, it may simply make more which will make it harder for m2, who is already dead by now.



Point being Kain can transform his body and control its form even when made of a diffrent material and all over the place, cutting him up will be useless, he will just mist and reform.

Thank you for proving my point.thumbup

Haven't you ever been outside on a day with no wind? The air feels pretty damn still, and that's because it is.

The rock could be very large. Even if its smaller the wind gust following it will blow the mist form apart, quickly separating it farther apart than Kain can reform from.

And no. You prey on Kain's teleportation like its real speed. MewTwo has his own barrier that blocks pretty much anything.

Do you know why fog disappears after it shows up in the morning? Because it starts to mix more with the air above it when the sun rises. The sun warms the air causing it to rise.

Again though. All of this is irrelevant since MewTwo can just mind wipe him. And the mind wipe is irrelevant because he doesn't get through the first fight.

Edit: Kain needs to demonstrate an ability to mist and reform his body after having a limb severed too by the way.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Thank you for proving my point.thumbup

Haven't you ever been outside on a day with no wind? The air feels pretty damn still, and that's because it is.

The rock could be very large. Even if its smaller the wind gust following it will blow the mist form apart, quickly separating it farther apart than Kain can reform from.

And no. You prey on Kain's teleportation like its real speed. MewTwo has his own barrier that blocks pretty much anything.

Do you know why fog disappears after it shows up in the morning? Because it starts to mix more with the air above it when the sun rises. The sun warms the air causing it to rise.

Again though. All of this is irrelevant since MewTwo can just mind wipe him. And the mind wipe is irrelevant because he doesn't get through the first fight.

Edit: Kain needs to demonstrate an ability to mist and reform his body after having a limb severed too by the way.

I have had fairly dry days but there is always air or a breeze no matter how small, but not atop a large castle on top of a mountain or indeed, exploring around those mountains themselves.

Nope not true, you dont get wind gusts that toss mist apart when objects fall through it. and blow it far apart where Kain can reform from? give me the logical reasoning for this, it makes no sense to belive Kain canot reform from mist from any distance as long as he has shown to be able to survive while its seperated from him.

No, its better than speed.

Fog does not disapear and Kain is not just normal mist, as he exists in many temperatures throughout the game, especially light. And the sun causing air to rise means little when Kain is in control of his form.

M2 could alter his mind to forget he was in a location...oh wait...no he cant because Kain is already at that location and even in his youth has resisted a far more powerful mind controller.

nope, hes already demonstrated that he can have his mist particles seperated, he does it all the time, he has full control over it. Thats like saying somebody else cutting off one of Jedahs limbs would kill him where his own seperation of a limb would not. Its illogical, Kain would reform from physical destruction.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I have had fairly dry days but there is always air or a breeze no matter how small, but not atop a large castle on top of a mountain or indeed, exploring around those mountains themselves.

Nope not true, you dont get wind gusts that toss mist apart when objects fall through it. and blow it far apart where Kain can reform from? give me the logical reasoning for this, it makes no sense to belive Kain canot reform from mist from any distance as long as he has shown to be able to survive while its seperated from him.

No, its better than speed.

Fog does not disapear and Kain is not just normal mist, as he exists in many temperatures throughout the game, especially light. And the sun causing air to rise means little when Kain is in control of his form.

M2 could alter his mind to forget he was in a location...oh wait...no he cant because Kain is already at that location and even in his youth has resisted a far more powerful mind controller.

nope, hes already demonstrated that he can have his mist particles seperated, he does it all the time, he has full control over it. Thats like saying somebody else cutting off one of Jedahs limbs would kill him where his own seperation of a limb would not. Its illogical, Kain would reform from physical destruction.

How does it not make sense? The greater the distance you have separated your body in any different form would have to make it harder to pull yourself back together. Its like Sandman, he can only maintain control when each particle of sand is still within a specific distance.



Right, silly me. Fog doesn't disappear, I forgot. I could have just looked out my window and taken a look at the fog that's been there since the day I was born if I needed a reminder.

A mind controller more powerful than MewTwo...no.

Yeah, but he hasn't demonstrated an ability to reform by mist after having a limb severed. There's no reason to believe he can since that limb would be separated, and as such he cannot turn it to mist. And no, it's not like saying that at all. It's like saying that I can maintain mental control over a limb that no longer has contact with my brain.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
How does it not make sense? The greater the distance you have separated your body in any different form would have to make it harder to pull yourself back together. Its like Sandman, he can only maintain control when each particle of sand is still within a specific distance.



Right, silly me. Fog doesn't disappear, I forgot. I could have just looked out my window and taken a look at the fog that's been there since the day I was born if I needed a reminder.

A mind controller more powerful than MewTwo...no.

Yeah, but he hasn't demonstrated an ability to reform by mist after having a limb severed. There's no reason to believe he can since that limb would be separated, and as such he cannot turn it to mist. And no, it's not like saying that at all. It's like saying that I can maintain mental control over a limb that no longer has contact with my brain.

You still have not made a specific argument or reason for it to make a diffrence, the mist is still kain, if it can even be blown apart at all its illogical that it would suddenly lose this property, especially since Kain exists outside of his being anyway as a soul like all vampires.

Its not technically disapeared, simply moved....in Kains case, he moves his own mist.

M2 has so far not mind controlled anyone other than a young woman....

Its nothing like saying that, because Kains brain is irrelvent, his spiritual control is all thats relevent, and havnig his physical form in lets say, several places at once like the instance with the mist means little to the spirit which would not suddenly depart. Kain can seperate his mist and exist while doing so, the limb itself being seperated is the same if not better than kain being seperated by himself and turned into mist particles in the first place.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You still have not made a specific argument or reason for it to make a diffrence, the mist is still kain, if it can even be blown apart at all its illogical that it would suddenly lose this property, especially since Kain exists outside of his being anyway as a soul like all vampires.

Its not technically disapeared, simply moved....in Kains case, he moves his own mist.

M2 has so far not mind controlled anyone other than a young woman....

Its nothing like saying that, because Kains brain is irrelvent, his spiritual control is all thats relevent, and havnig his physical form in lets say, several places at once like the instance with the mist means little to the spirit which would not suddenly depart. Kain can seperate his mist and exist while doing so, the limb itself being seperated is the same if not better than kain being seperated by himself and turned into mist particles in the first place.

I just facepalmed in real life. He has no proof that he can reform when his body is separated farther than the few inches it took to get through all these spaces. Saying there's no reason to believe he can't defies all logic but yours.

Right. It's mixed with regular air to the point where its been so separated that it isn't fog anymore. It's mixed to a point where Kain can't prove he would have any control over his form anymore if he were the fog.

Your point? The Strength of MewTwo's mind is spoken for through all of his psychic abilities. He'd have no problem mind controlling anyone. He doesn't have to anyway, Kain cannot escape his TK, a mindwipe, or even get through any Barrier MewTwo has.

Has Kain ever demonstrated any control over a severed limb? Has it been stated that he could still control a severed limb?

This is still irrelevant, as the team of Spartans can and will separate Kain's mist form, removing his only defense. And Kain has no way to hurt them.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I just facepalmed in real life. He has no proof that he can reform when his body is separated farther than the few inches it took to get through all these spaces. Saying there's no reason to believe he can't defies all logic but yours.

Right. It's mixed with regular air to the point where its been so separated that it isn't fog anymore. It's mixed to a point where Kain can't prove he would have any control over his form anymore if he were the fog.

Your point? The Strength of MewTwo's mind is spoken for through all of his psychic abilities. He'd have no problem mind controlling anyone. He doesn't have to anyway, Kain cannot escape his TK, a mindwipe, or even get through any Barrier MewTwo has.

Has Kain ever demonstrated any control over a severed limb? Has it been stated that he could still control a severed limb?

This is still irrelevant, as the team of Spartans can and will separate Kain's mist form, removing his only defense. And Kain has no way to hurt them.

I just chuckled and rolled my eyes in real life, because your not making any clear argument, theres no logical reasoning behind him not being able to reform from meters away if hes already shown he can reform and move through obstacles that already seperate him, the fact their more seperated makes no logical diffrence.

Thing is, this does not happen to Kains form at all, its a supernatural form that despite canonically being out in light does not suddenly evaporate.

Sorry but the strength of M2 mind is known, thing is strength of mind does not make up for what he can do with it, which is shown by feats, so far theres not a single feat showing he can mind control more than a young girl which<<<<<small armies of soldiers and priests which means Kain is>>>M2 mind powers. It seems to me M2 will be the one who is Mind controlled or destroyed by other means, his powers do not have fast enough to stop Kains every movement.

irrelvent, thats like me asking if M2 has ever used Psy powers on a vampire, pointless question. Hes shown to be able to dissolve his entire body into a gas and move it around, change its form and reform again, this means the fact one of his legs is in a diffrent place than it usually is has no baring on his powers.

Spartans are going to remove mist? lol you made me "chuckle in real life!"...stop blabbering wally, the Spartans die at eachothers hands or their own weapons turned on them or they die of old age, theyll never touch Kain.

Wait, is BT honestly suggesting Kain could beat MewTwo? haermm

Mewtwo could beat Kain with a thought

Originally posted by Burning thought
I just chuckled and rolled my eyes in real life, because your not making any clear argument, theres no logical reasoning behind him not being able to reform from meters away if hes already shown he can reform and move through obstacles that already seperate him, the fact their more seperated makes no logical diffrence.

Thing is, this does not happen to Kains form at all, its a supernatural form that despite canonically being out in light does not suddenly evaporate.

Sorry but the strength of M2 mind is known, thing is strength of mind does not make up for what he can do with it, which is shown by feats, so far theres not a single feat showing he can mind control more than a young girl which<<<<<small armies of soldiers and priests which means Kain is>>>M2 mind powers. It seems to me M2 will be the one who is Mind controlled or destroyed by other means, his powers do not have fast enough to stop Kains every movement.

irrelvent, thats like me asking if M2 has ever used Psy powers on a vampire, pointless question. Hes shown to be able to dissolve his entire body into a gas and move it around, change its form and reform again, this means the fact one of his legs is in a diffrent place than it usually is has no baring on his powers.

Spartans are going to remove mist? lol you made me "chuckle in real life!"...stop blabbering wally, the Spartans die at eachothers hands or their own weapons turned on them or they die of old age, theyll never touch Kain.

Like I said, it defies all logic except yours.

I highlighted every bit of your failed logic.

Fact 1) Mist form never survived any serious displacement or extreme heat.

Fact 2) Everything MewTwo can do shows the strength of his mind, as psychic powers rely on the minds power. If your mind is not strong enough to TK a rock the size of a house, you will not TK said rock.

Fact 3) Kain cannot get around a mind wipe. And Mist form doesn't help as MewTwo can TK that as well. Kain cannot hurt MewTwo or the Spartans.

Fact 4) Your logic fails.

The Spartans likely can't harm themselves since their armor is incredibly durable.

The force from a grenade explosion or the heat from a plasma pistol ought to separate mist enough. There's even a Plasma grenade.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Like I said, it defies all logic except yours.

I highlighted every bit of your failed logic.

Fact 1) Mist form never survived any serious displacement or extreme heat.

Fact 2) Everything MewTwo can do shows the strength of his mind, as psychic powers rely on the minds power. If your mind is not strong enough to TK a rock the size of a house, you will not TK said rock.

Fact 3) Kain cannot get around a mind wipe. And Mist form doesn't help as MewTwo can TK that as well. Kain cannot hurt MewTwo or the Spartans.

Fact 4) I have no logic

The Spartans likely can't harm themselves since their armor is incredibly durable.

The force from a grenade explosion or the heat from a plasma pistol ought to separate mist enough. There's even a Plasma grenade.

troll/spam/bait etc

1) does not need to

2) No, if your psychic/TK strength/skill over said power is not strong enough, your mind will not lift it, no matter how developed or skilled a human mind is it will never lift so much as a pebal.

3) false, not a fact at all, merely your own foolish garble because all Kain has to do is turn into mist and he would escape mind wipe unless you can show me M2 capable of entering the mind of a being without a brain at the time not that its relevent, technically Kains brain does not work so his physical brain is not a weakpoint.

4) I corrected this so called fact

lol? you dont even know anything about Spartans, stop trolling this thread or ill report.

both mentioned weapons would also kill their owners when kain Mind controls or inspires hates them.

MewTwo can fight ghoist types who have no physical form with his psychic moves, just sayin'.

regular gunfire as far as I remember just bounces off of the spartan armor & plasma weapon is not in their standard equipment at all.

then again I don't know what he meant by fully equiped.

pfI9MxNmdR4

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
MewTwo can fight ghoist types who have no physical form with his psychic moves, just sayin'.

Show me this

well considering all psychic pokemon can hit ghost types ermm

no prove Ghost Pokemon they are as ethereal as their name suggests then show me M2 mind wiping or mind altering them to prove your point.

Fighting and normal moves go through ghost pokemon doing no damage. They are still susceptible to hypnosis, confuse ray, psychic, confusion, psybeam, psycho cut.. ect. Basicly everything MewTwo does effect them, despite their lack of physical form.

Hell, ghost pokemon are actually considered ghosts in the pokemon verse. Ghastly and such are supposed to be the spirits of dead pokemon.

ghost types can't be touched by physical attacks unless they have been identified by foresight. mewtwo can simply use sunny day and evaporate kain if he goes to mist form.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
ghost types can't be touched by physical attacks unless they have been identified by foresight. mewtwo can simply use sunny day and evaporate kain if he goes to mist form.

I don't think the sun could evaporate him that fast unless Kain stays in that form.

True though that Ghosts can't be hit. They are a bit redundant. They are weak against ground attacks, yet they have that one special latent skill that nulls all ground attacks.

only ghastly haunter and gengar are weak against ground because of their poison 2ndary type. ghost is weak against it poison is.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Fighting and normal moves go through ghost pokemon doing no damage. They are still susceptible to hypnosis, confuse ray, psychic, confusion, psybeam, psycho cut.. ect. Basicly everything MewTwo does effect them, despite their lack of physical form.

Hell, ghost pokemon are actually considered ghosts in the pokemon verse. Ghastly and such are supposed to be the spirits of dead pokemon.

So your talking gameplay mechanics then by the sounds of it?

And gastly according to:

http://www.pokemondb.co.uk/pokedex/gastly

Is suspectable to fire, water, etc...so much for being ethereal, these are physical forces so obviously being classed as a ghost pokemon has little to do with anything, psychic simply does more damage than usual in gameplay.

physical meaning touching, as in counter would be a defense against it. pokemon snap shows the ghosts disappearing through objects meaning ghosts can be ethereal or not by their own choosing.

Or the pokemon are Ethereal and can be hurt by energy attacks just like any ethereal creature in any fiction. Psychic attacks happen to be good at it. Kain has no way of defending himself from MewTwo, who can TK his freaking mist form, disable him, tear him apart, strike him down with a shadow ball, disperse him, turn him to stone, paralyze him, put him to sleep, ect.

Originally posted by Burning thought
So your talking gameplay mechanics then by the sounds of it?

And gastly according to:

http://www.pokemondb.co.uk/pokedex/gastly

Is suspectable to fire, water, etc...so much for being ethereal, these are physical forces so obviously being classed as a ghost pokemon has little to do with anything, psychic simply does more damage than usual in gameplay.

in the Pokeverse those are considered elemental/energy attacks. A glacier falling on Ghastly will do nothing, but an icebeam from Dewgong will.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Or the pokemon are Ethereal and can be hurt by energy attacks just like any ethereal creature in any fiction. Psychic attacks happen to be good at it. Kain has no way of defending himself from MewTwo, who can TK his freaking mist form, disable him, tear him apart, strike him down with a shadow ball, disperse him, turn him to stone, paralyze him, put him to sleep, ect.

Has Disable worked on anything outside of Pokemon?

I've been preaching the evaporation and separation defense for Kain's useless Mist form for the last two pages. BT just doesn't get it.

wei he didnt mean disable the move, he meant disable as in keep kain from doing anything, psychic lock.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
in the Pokeverse those are considered elemental/energy attacks. A glacier falling on Ghastly will do nothing, but an icebeam from Dewgong will.

In the pokeverse ala gameplay mechanics? have these statistics been used in actual canon?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Or the pokemon are Ethereal and can be hurt by energy attacks just like any ethereal creature in any fiction. Psychic attacks happen to be good at it. Kain has no way of defending himself from MewTwo, who can TK his freaking mist form, disable him, tear him apart, strike him down with a shadow ball, disperse him, turn him to stone, paralyze him, put him to sleep, ect.

All those highlighted are either false due to M2 taking too long to concentrate before he is himself destroyed or are just lists of things he can do in general that would not be effective against Kain. M2 only hope would be to stop Kain from doing things, if Kain is physical, smash him, if he turns mist, manip the mist but from recently looking at M2 vids, it seems he needs to concentrate a fair deal before he actually fullfills various effects, including damage.

haermm You realise MewTwo is superior to Kain in every way, right?

Faster, stronger, more durable, smarter, better powers.

He doesn't need to concentrate do do anything, hell, he can maintain a world wide storm, and simultaneously combat Mew o_O

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
haermm You realise MewTwo is superior to Kain in every way, right?

Faster, stronger, more durable, smarter, better powers.

He doesn't need to concentrate do do anything, hell, he can maintain a world wide storm, and simultaneously combat Mew o_O

All of these statements are either false or irrelvent

Faster- teleportation>speed

stronger- when? actual feats, not gameplay numbers

durability- same as above

smarter? the guy apprently has all these TK powers yet when facing perhaps his greatest nemesis uses shadow balls.....not really smarter, Kain has far more intellectual feats.

better powers? all he can do is cause some concentrated physical effects, he just has more powerful TK.

he just stimulates the weather, where is it stated he is constantly maintaining it? hell whos to say this is even difficult or that hes not concentrating? perhaps thats why he is pathetic in combat through most of the film....

He concentrates on most levels and its not likely its going to avail him, one teleport and slash and M2 falls lifelessly and headless to the ground.

Originally posted by Burning thought
All of these statements are either false or irrelvent

Faster- teleportation>speed

stronger- when? actual feats, not gameplay numbers

durability- same as above

smarter? the guy apprently has all these TK powers yet when facing perhaps his greatest nemesis uses shadow balls.....not really smarter, Kain has far more intellectual feats.

better powers? all he can do is cause some concentrated physical effects, he just has more powerful TK.

he just stimulates the weather, where is it stated he is constantly maintaining it? hell whos to say this is even difficult or that hes not concentrating? perhaps thats why he is pathetic in combat through most of the film....

He concentrates on most levels and its not likely its going to avail him, one teleport and slash and M2 falls lifelessly and headless to the ground.

If teleportation > speed, then I was right in Link vs Sephiroth when I used Zant's teleportation for reaction timing. Which means Link stomps Sephiroth and Kain. I wasn't right apparently, so I know you're wrong.

Strength doesn't even matter here.

Durability doesn't matter here, since Kain can't do anything.

Smarter. Supercomputer thoughts > anything Kain has ever done.

Better powers meaning more powerful. MewTwo said he created the storm. Stimulating the weather? He bent the sky to his will by TKing air currents, the only way you can create your own weather pattern.

You have some amusing fantasies.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
If teleportation > speed, then I was right in Link vs Sephiroth when I used Zant's teleportation for reaction timing. Which means Link stomps Sephiroth and Kain. I wasn't right apparently, so I know you're wrong.

Strength doesn't even matter here.

Durability doesn't matter here, since Kain can't do anything.

Smarter. Supercomputer thoughts > anything Kain has ever done.

Better powers meaning more powerful. MewTwo said he created the storm. Stimulating the weather? He bent the sky to his will by TKing air currents, the only way you can create your own weather pattern.

You have some amusing fantasies.

Teleportion is not a reaction speed feat, theres a very large diffrence, and wtf? Kain would kill Sephiroth and Link together...quite easily.

It does if Kain punches through m2 head.

Erm...no not exactley, wisdom and intellgience does not come just because you have a fast mind, unfortunatley m2 has done nothing in comparison to Kain in actual actions of intellect.

Kain can call lightning from the sky to decimate large forces, which is far quickly than what M2 did albiet less powerful, but in a VS debate, far far more useful.

So.. Instantly stirring up a world-wide cataclysm isn't as useful as a few stray lightning bolts? Did you watch the video that was linked in the other thread, where MewTwo blocks freakin' lightning with TK?

Its not instant at all lol, even Phantom Miria who I would say has a vaster knowledge of Pokemon than you do did not state that it was instant, infact she pointed it out its one of the few powers he has that took some time.

What good is a world wide cataclsm when opponents like Kain, Kratos, Dante, Sephiroth even little dinky link could smash you before you let it loose and furthermore, what use is it when it did not actually suceed in causing the cataclsm, hell even start until near the end of the film.

Your logic is still terrible. If Teleportation is better than speed, it would have to be faster than speed. Which means reacting to it is better than reacting to speed.

Kain isn't fast enough to do that, nor is he powerful enough to get past any Barrier MewTwo can put up.

Alakazam > Kain. MewTwo > Alakazam. MewTwo > Kain.

What good is lightning in this fight? No good at all.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Your logic is still terrible. If Teleportation is better than speed, it would have to be faster than speed. Which means reacting to it is better than reacting to speed.

Kain isn't fast enough to do that, nor is he powerful enough to get past any Barrier MewTwo can put up.

Alakazam > Kain. MewTwo > Alakazam. MewTwo > Kain.

What good is lightning in this fight? No good at all.

When you teleport, it can cover more ground than speed depending on the speed itself, but as a move its better because your opponent cant attack you during the teleport because obviously you are not there.


Feats of barrier? find them, furthermore barrier protecting againt magic.

Only in TK, mind powerwise Kain actually has shown resistance.

Just like M2 worldwide storm.

The storm took him less time than it would take for Kain to achieve anything, and furthermore, he maintained it without any visible concentration.

He maintained world-wide, freakin TK of /air/ without effort. Also, your pot shot at Link was lul, reported. The storm would have destroyed everything on the planet when MewTwo unleashed it.

Kain would teleport and behead M2 long before the storm would be worthh even starting to prepare....

likely the same with most of M2 powers.

Originally posted by Burning thought
When you teleport, it can cover more ground than speed depending on the speed itself, but as a move its better because your opponent cant attack you during the teleport because obviously you are not there.


Feats of barrier? find them, furthermore barrier protecting againt magic.

Only in TK, mind powerwise Kain actually has shown resistance.

Just like M2 worldwide storm.

You miss the point, or ignore it. Surprise surprise.

Redirecting a Gyrados Hyper Beam, colliding with Mew's barrier at high speeds multiple times, I think it took a Flamethrower from Charizard maybe not though, and once the energy from the barrier was propelled forward it turned Ash to stone.

Pokemon special attacks > magic. Hell, the magic still does physical damage. On a technicality, the Pokemon special attacks don't do physical damage.

Not to anything on MewTwo's level.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
You miss the point, or ignore it. Surprise surprise.

Redirecting a Gyrados Hyper Beam, colliding with Mew's barrier at high speeds multiple times, I think it took a Flamethrower from Charizard maybe not though, and once the energy from the barrier was propelled forward it turned Ash to stone.

Pokemon special attacks > magic. Hell, the magic still does physical damage. On a technicality, the Pokemon special attacks don't do physical damage.

Not to anything on MewTwo's level.

Whats the feat of a Garydos beam at the time? theres nothing impressive that youve stated. When is it stated Ash was turned to stone?

Oh I see, so Medihv in Warcraft is weaker than Pokemon special attacks? Again, a very silly thing to say and it depends on what magic so your missing the plot again.

Firstly, this idea of Kain beheading MewTwo is lol. Wouldn't happen. Secondly, MewTwo rips Kain apart with TK. The storm is just a vulgar display of power, in terms of feats. Would he actually conjure a storm in a one on one fight? Nah, he'd rip your jaw off through your ass, crush you, or pull you apart.

Your just re-stating nonsense that I have already touched upon, M2 will be beheaded and his Tk is not quite quick enough, he needs to concentrate first, in which case Kain does a teleport next to him, M2 loses his target and therefore his concetration and dies from a sword in the back of the head.

yeh he prob would, because in a VS his power is useless, unlike Kains lightning storm thus my point....

Originally posted by Burning thought
Whats the feat of a Garydos beam at the time? theres nothing impressive that youve stated. When is it stated Ash was turned to stone?

Oh I see, so Medihv in Warcraft is weaker than Pokemon special attacks? Again, a very silly thing to say and it depends on what magic so your missing the plot again.

The fact that it is the most powerful Pokemon move at the time with a base power of 150, and it coming from Gyrados means its stronger than anything Kain has taken. You can look at him, he was turned to stone.

Maybe. Medihv has probably displayed more powerful magic than Kain has though. I'm missing the plot? I didn't know this debate was a story.

I'm still not sure why this fight is being discussed. It's well accepted that he doesn't get through the first fight. Inspire Hate does nothing since the Spartans likely aren't affected, they can't hurt themselves anyway and Mist form doesn't help Kain as it gets separated until its no longer mist or separated farther than Kain can maintain control over.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
The fact that it is the most powerful Pokemon move at the time with a base power of 150, and it coming from Gyrados means its stronger than anything Kain has taken. You can look at him, he was turned to stone.

Maybe. Medihv has probably displayed more powerful magic than Kain has though. I'm missing the plot? I didn't know this debate was a story.

I'm still not sure why this fight is being discussed. It's well accepted that he doesn't get through the first fight. Inspire Hate does nothing since the Spartans likely aren't affected, they can't hurt themselves anyway and Mist form doesn't help Kain as it gets separated until its no longer mist or separated farther than Kain can maintain control over.

zomg! base power of 150! you dont say!! Moocow that is one of the poorest arguments you have stated so far. He just went still and gray, that does not mean he is made out of stone just because he resembles the colour.....

oh so your argument is shown as the blunder that it is, your stating Kains magic is not powerful enough, not magic in general, which is not the point. my question was, has the shield actually stopped magic.

Not really, more intellectual members, especially myself disagree with the Spartans beating Kain. Your argument is weak, I will leave you in your confusion about characters you dont know much of and wait until someone with more clue over Spartans debates in their favour or those with some sense who can see Kain beating them will take one of the other characters in the gauntlet to debate.

Originally posted by Burning thought
zomg! base power of 150! you dont say!! Moocow that is one of the poorest arguments you have stated so far. He just went still and gray, that does not mean he is made out of stone just because he resembles the colour.....

oh so your argument is shown as the blunder that it is, your stating Kains magic is not powerful enough, not magic in general, which is not the point. my question was, has the shield actually stopped magic.

Not really, more intellectual members, especially myself disagree with the Spartans beating Kain. Your argument is weak, I will leave you in your confusion about characters you dont know much of and wait until someone with more clue over Spartans debates in their favour or those with some sense who can see Kain beating them will take one of the other characters in the gauntlet to debate.

Pokemon Fire Red Pokedex on Gyrados: It has an extremely aggressive nature. The Hyper Beam it shoots from its mouth totally incinerates all targets.

It doesn't have to. Kain cannot break the shield. Better things have tried.

I know enough of Spartans to know that Kain cannot hurt them, and they cannot hurt themselves. Keep insulting my intelligence, it makes me laugh.

Did BT just include himself as an intellectual?

And yeah. BT, to put that in perspective, from the pokedex.
"It has an extremely aggressive nature. The Hyper Beam it shoots from its mouth totally incinerates all targets. "

Edit: DAMN YOU MOO, YOU SNIPED ME.

You find that on Serebii?

Bulbapedia.

Mewtwoi can teleport too. not to mention that he can stop kain before kain realizes the match has begun.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Pokemon Fire Red Pokedex on Gyrados: It has an extremely aggressive nature. The Hyper Beam it shoots from its mouth totally incinerates all targets.

It doesn't have to. Kain cannot break the shield. Better things have tried.

I know enough of Spartans to know that Kain cannot hurt them, and they cannot hurt themselves. Keep insulting my intelligence, it makes me laugh.

i asked for feats not a hyperbolic statement.

Seems not in your argument so far. Kain tells M2 to lower his shield with his own mind powers.

I dont have to insult anything, no you dont know anything about Spartans or Kain.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
Mewtwoi can teleport too. not to mention that he can stop kain before kain realizes the match has begun.

Prove this, show M2 stopping an destroying an entity quickly.

That's not hyperbolic statement, Gyarados is known, and listed, all through out ithe pokedex for destroyign cities and mountains when it's pissed.

BT you have used Kain stopping someone in time and killing them. never back up the claim. then you say kain can tk whoever and kill them. now when someone uses your tactic against you, you want proof. Mewtwo thinks faster than a super computer. he broke alakazam's hold on its on spoons. alakazam telekinesis surpasses kains. mewtwo lifted an entire herd of tauros. they were helpless. kain's body is not a better specimen than a tauros. he is not faster than a supercomputer. he is stopped and he is killed. How is depending on mewtwo.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
BT you have used Kain stopping someone in time and killing them. never back up the claim. then you say kain can tk whoever and kill them. now when someone uses your tactic against you, you want proof. Mewtwo thinks faster than a super computer. he broke alakazam's hold on its on spoons. alakazam telekinesis surpasses kains. mewtwo lifted an entire herd of tauros. they were helpless. kain's body is not a better specimen than a tauros. he is not faster than a supercomputer. he is stopped and he is killed. How is depending on mewtwo.

I back up the claim every time with the same old site people who debate with me have seen every time, the move is quite clearly shown.

Theres no tactic against me that I would use.

yeh, TK surpasses Kain, I never said any diffrent, show me where I said Kains Tk surpasses m2?


M2 cannot call upon his power at the speed of his mind however, he does not fire his powers as fast as a super computer, he concentrates.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
Mewtwoi can teleport too. not to mention that he can stop kain before kain realizes the match has begun.

Mewtwo doesn't have teleport in canon.

Kain can literally do nothing to MewTwo, who'll simply set up a barrier powerful enough to survive direct attacks from Mew.

Kain's slower than MewTwo, who's faster than the effortlessly mach 2 Dragonite.

MewTwo can control global weather patterns effortlessly, move islands with TK, erase the memories of Pokemon with psychic powers beyond anythign Kain has ever seen.

He's physicly stronger and more durable than Kain too.

Kain can do nothing. MewTwo will erase his memories, disable his powers, rip him apart or crush him with TK. If Kain tries to tleeport, MewTwo's already disabled it, he tries to Mist, MewTwo TK's his mist back into the shape of Kain's body and puppets him for lulz before disassembling his molecules.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Kain's slower than MewTwo, who's faster than the effortlessly mach 2 Dragonite.

Before anything is said about this being "flight" or "travel" speed, Mewtwo can learn 'Aerial Ace', which is described as "An extremely speedy and unavoidable attack". While "Unavoidable" is counted out since it's a no-limit fallacy in a debate such as this, this move does indeed put Mewtwo above Kain in speed, who's barely peak human in his best speed feat.

"Extremely speedy" in the Pokémon universe is pretty speedy.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Kain can literally do nothing to MewTwo, who'll simply set up a barrier powerful enough to survive direct attacks from Mew.

Kain's slower than MewTwo, who's faster than the effortlessly mach 2 Dragonite.

MewTwo can control global weather patterns effortlessly, move islands with TK, erase the memories of Pokemon with psychic powers beyond anythign Kain has ever seen.

He's physicly stronger and more durable than Kain too.

Kain can do nothing. MewTwo will erase his memories, disable his powers, rip him apart or crush him with TK. If Kain tries to tleeport, MewTwo's already disabled it, he tries to Mist, MewTwo TK's his mist back into the shape of Kain's body and puppets him for lulz before disassembling his molecules.



False, kain would be next to m2 with one teleport who wouldnt even know Kain is there until the sword is in his head.

That last bit is false, because M2 cannot seem to control the mind of anything more than a young woman, Kain has seen and passively defeated the psy powers of a vamp who could control small armies of older soldiers and priests.

not likely durable, what leads you to thinking that?

M2 will try to erase his memories and end up going unconcious with the strain only to have Kain overpower his mind and take him over. He will take his 1/2 second process of concentration and by the end of it Kain will be behind him, his power wil be useless and his body sliced in half.

The whole idea of M2 in this forum is based on childhood fantasies, the real canon M2 has motly impressive physical feats, nothing more.

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
Before anything is said about this being "flight" or "travel" speed, Mewtwo can learn 'Aerial Ace', which is described as "An extremely speedy and unavoidable attack". While "Unavoidable" is counted out since it's a no-limit fallacy in a debate such as this, this move does indeed put Mewtwo above Kain in speed, who's barely peak human in his best speed feat.

"Extremely speedy" in the Pokémon universe is pretty speedy.

Only Canon M2 is supposed to be allowed, not what the player can teach him....

Originally posted by Burning thought
Only Canon M2 is supposed to be allowed, not what the player can teach him....

It is canon. Although if TM/HM is allowed or not, that's up to the OP. It's canon still. Usable is a different story though.

The move may be canon but if you have to Teach m2 it, then its not canon to m2, since M2 in the actual canon does not learn things on a players whim.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain kills most of the gauntlet with ease, before reaching M2 he kills Trance Kuja then assaults M2, Kains no good like most characters against beings of incredible psy power that can react within an instant whch is why he would lose the majority against Starkiller who he would take a few wins using mist, thing is M2 apprently manipulated the weather on a global scale so Kain loses at M2, hes the only one in the gauntlet to pose a threat however.

THIS WAS NOT EDITED THIS IS A DIRECT QUOTE.

Yes indeed, i changed my mind ,you see I like you must have had the base value idea that M2 can instantly use powers to destroy and stop kain at every level but the truth i found out by wathcing a few Pokemon movie vids on youtube is that he has to concentrate for a good while (second or two, dependong on the ability) before an effect happens.

M2 has powerful TK i give him that, but Ive learnt from other members that his actual inner mind powers, e.g. against the minds o other beings are a lot to be desired, perhaps with all his intellgience and psy power, his violent and hostile nature takes away from his potential of being a true mind invader/conquerer.

Originally posted by Burning thought
that he has to concentrate for a good while (second or two, dependong on the ability) before an effect happens.

Excuse me? Which moves are you looking at?

9m0tYb3Npjg

0:24.5-0.26.5

2 seconds to break a glass container about his height.

at 0.54 M2 is seen glowing, presumerably started before we see him since he is already powering up and by 0.56/57 he has cracked a couple of tubes...hardly impressive tbh, its not until 1.01 he unleashes a great deal of power, which makes me belive he has to concentrate for a fair deal before he deals any major damage.

at 2.13 he is hit by a ball that is a display that obvioulsy his reaction time is not as impressive as one would want it to be.

he was just born. that video proves his awesomeness. as of the second mewtwo movie he surpassed mew because his powers kept growing.

He just woke up you mean.....still does not back him up being any quicker at any time.

Find me some vids to counter my claim please, show me M2 doing things instantly on a whim.

And m2 was not just born at 2.13, he was beaten by obvious attacks again and again, the sort that if his body could react at the speed of his mind (super computer) should allow him to escape. Obvioulsy this is not hte case.

Originally posted by Burning thought
9m0tYb3Npjg

0:24.5-0.26.5

2 seconds to break a glass container about his height.

at 0.54 M2 is seen glowing, presumerably started before we see him since he is already powering up and by 0.56/57 he has cracked a couple of tubes...hardly impressive tbh, its not until 1.01 he unleashes a great deal of power, which makes me belive he has to concentrate for a fair deal before he deals any major damage.

at 2.13 he is hit by a ball that is a display that obvioulsy his reaction time is not as impressive as one would want it to be.

Your first two examples were when he was born. He had lived for about a minute when he accomplished those two feats. Giovanni and him both agreed that he had not developed his powers at that point.

an epic durability feat, that be. It didn't even hurt him, what's Kain's sword going to do?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
an epic durability feat, that be. It didn't even hurt him, what's Kain's sword going to do?

Able to survive explosion based damage not slicing of an unkown damage is not a epic feat of durability.

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
Your first two examples were when he was born. He had lived for about a minute when he accomplished those two feats. Giovanni and him both agreed that he had not developed his powers at that point.

He was alive bofore that period, arguably fully grown, this still as I said before does not back him up being any faster.

So I will w8 patiently until you provide several M2 feats of instant power of a high degree, since so far, he seems to move at this speed consistently.

Firstly, it still makes him faster than Kain, even if your entire claim wasn't utter crap.

Secondly, no, he'd never been awake prior to that. That was the first thing he ever did. This is like you dropping out of your mom, and being a master martial artist, just a tad unlikely.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Firstly, it still makes him faster than Kain, even if your entire claim wasn't utter crap.

Secondly, no, he'd never been awake prior to that. That was the first thing he ever did. This is like you dropping out of your mom, and being a master martial artist, just a tad unlikely.

Showing M2 move slower than the instant you claim he does is utter crap? lol, probably to your argument but to mine it works perfectly until Miria can get a "adult" or more "learned" M2 list o showings.

no, Kain can teleport and slash 5 soldiers in one move, M2 will still be too slow by about a second, maybe 1.5

Nothing alike, m2 did not have to learn how to use his powers, merely according to Mira learn how to use them better. Either way he was still slower

Your entire argument is "omg he got hit in a movie".

Hit by /Mew/.

So, you've shown him, wake up for the first time, havign never used his powers before, and with no clue who or what he is, blow up an island.

Then, you show him being hit by the very beign he was cloned after. You have no argument.

Hell, even in the opening scene of that video when he's just been newly born, there are instances of instant power use.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Your entire argument is "omg he got hit in a movie".

Hit by /Mew/.

So, you've shown him, wake up for the first time, havign never used his powers before, and with no clue who or what he is, blow up an island.

Then, you show him being hit by the very beign he was cloned after. You have no argument.

Hell, even in the opening scene of that video when he's just been newly born, there are instances of instant power use.


So? thats his class of power as a Pokemon, ive seen similiar things in the cartoons from most Pokemon, their just evolved or w/e and their already using great powers.

And I show you him being hit by an obvious ball of energy, its nothing to do with who threw it at all, it was obvious, it crossed the screen in like half a second, if his reaction time was of a Supercomputer then this does not avail him at all.

He had already started psychic power usage, there were a couple of instantces where he simply started at an object after charging his power and they blew up in about half a second, a few imobile crumbling walls.

Ive shown him take too long to defeat Kain, thats all I need, ive shown his supercomputer mind means nothing in this argument as well.

He also had pretty much instant moves even in control of areas that he wasn't in.

what will kain's tele do when mewtwo can do the same thing anyway?

If you honestly believe Kain can beat MewTwo, you're dillusional.

You've proved nothing, your argument holds no water, and your proof contradicts itself, hell. One of the things you highlighted is a durability feat which will disallow Kain from even hurting MewTwo.