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Who Wins?

Originally posted by Kotor3
Who Wins?
Luke "Teh Force g0d" Skywalker.

Originally posted by mattatom
Luke "Teh Force g0d" Skywalker.

Z0mg I got quoted, i is teh happiest.

lol, I just agree. Luke is a loser and should die......

Luke isn't a Force god circa Dark Empire. It's still like 15 years till NJO even begins. Mace wins.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Luke isn't a Force god circa Dark Empire. It's still like 15 years till NJO even begins. Mace wins.

Not necessarily. Remember Luke in DE was able to defeat Palpatine who at that time was even more powerful and formidable than when Mace fought him (yes I know, ABC, but it still shows how skilled and powerful Luke is).

True, Luke needed Leia's help to turn Palpatine's Force Storm against him, but the lightsabre duel prior to that Luke won himself.

The first duel where Luke lost doesn't count. At that point Luke's head was still messed up.

Plus, while Luke in DE has a very close call with the Dark Side he pulls away from it at the end and so won't be using it here, thus Mace's Vaapad won't be quite so effective.

Originally posted by Incanus
lol, I just agree. Luke is a loser and should die......

Luke is awesome. He is the ultimate Jedi.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Not necessarily. Remember Luke in DE was able to defeat Palpatine who at that time was even more powerful and formidable than when Mace fought him (yes I know, ABC, but it still shows how skilled and powerful Luke is).

True, Luke needed Leia's help to turn Palpatine's Force Storm against him, but the lightsabre duel prior to that Luke won himself.

The first duel where Luke lost doesn't count. At that point Luke's head was still messed up.

Plus, while Luke in DE has a very close call with the Dark Side he pulls away from it at the end and so won't be using it here, thus Mace's Vaapad won't be quite so effective.
Luke, Leia, and Anakin's defeating Sidious had nothing to do with a combat scenario, it was an overwhelming wave of Light Sided goodness that threw Palpatine off course in the midst of his Force Storm. In a strictly combative sense, Mace will f*ck Luke's shit up, Vaapad or no.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Luke, Leia, and Anakin's defeating Sidious had nothing to do with a combat scenario, it was an overwhelming wave of Light Sided goodness that threw Palpatine off course in the midst of his Force Storm. In a strictly combative sense, Mace will f*ck Luke's shit up, Vaapad or no.

Yeah but before that, Luke fought Palpatine in a duel and defeated him (even cut off his hand). The "overwhelming wave of Light Sided goodness" came AFTER that.

So in a strictly combative sense, Luke can handle Mace.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Yeah but before that, Luke fought Palpatine in a duel and defeated him (even cut off his hand). The "overwhelming wave of Light Sided goodness" came AFTER that. Ah, yes. I know that one now. Wasn't Luke being aided by Leia's Force Harmony, which isn't present here? Nor is there present here Luke's inside information and knowledge of the Dark Side and workings surrounding Palpatine, whose place has been taken by Windu. Windu's Vaapad is foreign to Luke, but Luke's Shien... not so much to Windu.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Ah, yes. I know that one now. Wasn't Luke being aided by Leia's Force Harmony, which isn't present here? Nor is there present here Luke's inside information and knowledge of the Dark Side and workings surrounding Palpatine, whose place has been taken by Windu. Windu's Vaapad is foreign to Luke, but Luke's Shien... not so much to Windu.

Everything is foreign to Luke, so what? Windu's Vaapad is irrelevant unless this is dark side Luke. It seems that by DE Luke is already very powerful, so its doubtful Mace is going to **** anyone's **** up.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Everything is foreign to Luke, so what? Windu's Vaapad is irrelevant unless this is dark side Luke. It seems that by DE Luke is already very powerful, so its doubtful Mace is going to **** anyone's **** up. Perhaps I was being overzealous when I said that. But Vaapad is foreign to Luke, and that certainly counts, especially when said unfamiliar style is being used by it's creator and master. This Luke is powerful, but he's not the titan that the NJO series produces 19 years later. He may win, but for the life of me, I can't see him beating Mace.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Perhaps I was being overzealous when I said that. But Vaapad is foreign to Luke, and that certainly counts, especially when said unfamiliar style is being used by it's creator and master. This Luke is powerful, but he's not the titan that the NJO series produces 19 years later. He may win, but for the life of me, I can't see him beating Mace.


And once again LL, how on earth does Vaapad matter against a light sider?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Perhaps I was being overzealous when I said that. But Vaapad is foreign to Luke, and that certainly counts, especially when said unfamiliar style is being used by it's creator and master. This Luke is powerful, but he's not the titan that the NJO series produces 19 years later. He may win, but for the life of me, I can't see him beating Mace.

i'm thinking Mace wins too, He did beat sidious, so Luke beating sidious doesn't put luke above mace, even if you don't think luke had any help in the duel. but do remember, Luke also uses a custom form of lightsaber combat, so Mace would be as unfamiliar with Luke's style as Luke is with Mace's.

Originally posted by truejedi
i'm thinking Mace wins too, He did beat sidious, so Luke beating sidious doesn't put luke above mace, even if you don't think luke had any help in the duel. but do remember, Luke also uses a custom form of lightsaber combat, so Mace would be as unfamiliar with Luke's style as Luke is with Mace's. Seriously? IIRC, he was a master at Form V.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Seriously? IIRC, he was a master at Form V.

well, i read somewhere in NJO a few paragraphs explaining LUke's form. I don't own any of those, so If i get you a quote, it'll be a little while, but i did find this sentence in wiki (which i despise, so don't take it as offered proof )



It sounds almost word for word what i remember reading, so i don't think it is completely out of left field. Srry i can't be more specific for you. I'm so out of practice remembering what i read where that its getting frustrating!

Originally posted by truejedi
well, i read somewhere in NJO a few paragraphs explaining LUke's form. I don't own any of those, so If i get you a quote, it'll be a little while, but i did find this sentence in wiki (which i despise, so don't take it as offered proof ) Maybe as of NJO, yeah. But Shien was his whole thang in DE, I believe. He got it from copying Vader. Ugh, then they got in to that whole Fast, Medium, Strong thing for the Jedi Knight games.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Maybe as of NJO, yeah. But Shien was his whole thang in DE, I believe. He got it from copying Vader. Ugh, then they got in to that whole Fast, Medium, Strong thing for the Jedi Knight games.

k, thanks! lol, yeah, the fast, medium strong thing was stupid. Seems like it would glitch when i played too, and it would be almost impossible to switch back and forth between them.

i say mace takes this but not easily.

The fast, medium and strong things nwere the three circles of defense converted into attack. Wish they made one where you picked a style..............

Uh I though they were tought low, mid and high in the JA trilogy.

No it was Fast, Medium, Strong. Strong was fun online, let's you do a "DFA".

I was talking about the Jedi Academy books. Ive never played the games.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
And once again LL, how on earth does Vaapad matter against a light sider?

Well, Luke will be completely unfamiliar with the combos. He may also be surprised that a light side practitioner fights so aggressively or what have you; Mace is unique. Also: Vaapad makes Mace better even against non-sith; it draws upon his own darkness to fight.

That better not be some form of racist comment....... His 'iner darkness' thats not nice, man.

Racism ain't helpful at all.

Unless it is helpful, then it is.

Originally posted by truejedi
i'm thinking Mace wins too, He did beat sidious, so Luke beating sidious doesn't put luke above mace.

What you have to remember though is that the Palpatine Luke fought was a lot more formiddable than the one Mace fought.

Firstly, Palpatine's knowledge/power had increased a lot after RotS, because he had more time to collect and study Dark Side lore.

Second, when Luke fought him he had transferred his spirit into a new body, so he was now (physically) younger and stronger while still having all his skill and power.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Ah, yes. I know that one now. Wasn't Luke being aided by Leia's Force Harmony, which isn't present here?

Yeah you're right. I think (just my opinion) that Leia's Force Harmony just kept the Dark Side from confusing his mind, since he'd just snapped out of Palpatine's thrall. It wasn't giving him extra power or anything.

Originally posted by Incanus
That better not be some form of racist comment....... His 'iner darkness' thats not nice, man.

Don't worry. It isn't. It just refers to Mace's natural predisposition towards aggression. He himself notes inthe RotS novel that Vaapad "channels my own inner darkness into a weapon of the light." His words.

Mace windu...

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Racism ain't helpful at all.

Racism? Wut?



I'm so glad you're on ignore. This calls for both a
"What the fvck is wrong with you!?"
and a
http://holycrapthatsfunny.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/facepalm.jpg

Read shatterpoint. Or even this:
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I don't mean to throw this thread off topic, but it seems to have died anyway. This seems like the ideal place for a definitive discussion about what Vaapad does and does not do.

Case 1:
Vaapad practitioner vs. Dark Side User

This is the most common instance in vs. Threads- See Mace vs. Palpatine. In this situation, the 'superconducting loop' comes into effect. In the only canon case of this occurrence, Vaapad was thrown against a superior force user (Sidious). The Superconducting loop serves to equalize the disparity between the Vapaad user and his opponent. This only comes into effect with Force powers- it copied Sidious's Force Speed, but would not be able to copy someone's innate speed- like Grievous.

Case 2:
Vapaad Practitioner vs. Neutral user or non- Force Sensitive

This is probably the most common occurrence in universe, as there are fewer DS users to fight than say, droids. In this situation Vaapad is fueled by the user's inner darkness- the innate power of Mace Windu, for example. The 'loop does not come into play, but the user still 'skirts the penumbra' of the DS, as shown by Shatterpoint. This is the style that Windu uses in any fight where he is not outclassed by a DS force user.

Case 3:
Vaapad Practitioner in a Sparring setting

The consensus on the boards is that Vapaad does not automatically use the metaphysical aspects of the style in a fight. The combinations of the saber style, the sequences, would be unaffected by the users 'mood'. I take issue with this idea.














This shows that to use Vaapad at all, one must enjoy the battle, and to do so one must fight the lure of the Dark Side. Simply using the form on Karun Hal (without a lightsaber in his hand) pushed him dangerously close to the Dark Side:


You can't get Vaapad results without using a Vaapad state of mind.

Yeah, I think he was just kidding...

Jokes are supposed to be funny. If he learns then I will have helped him. If not then he can stay on ignore; stupidity is contagious.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Jokes are supposed to be funny. What don't you f*cking understand?! Gimme a f*cking answer!

He... he was looking at the lights...

No! No, f*ck no!

It's f*cking distraaacting... OOOOH, GOOOOD!

F*ck! What the f*ck is it with you?

He was... looking at the lights...

Seriously man, you and me, we're f*cking done professionally.


F*cking ass.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Seriously man, you and me, we're f*cking done professionally.


F*cking ass. Originally posted by Lord Lucien
F*ck! What the f*ck is it with you? Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No! No, f*ck no! Originally posted by Lord Lucien
What don't you f*cking understand?! Gimme a f*cking answer!
You've been saying F*uck alot recently Lucien, run out of meds?

Originally posted by mattatom
You've been saying F*uck alot recently Lucien, run out of meds? Please don't tell me you haven't seen Bale Out.

Put together by Revolucian!

...

I never picked up on the homophony between "lucian" and "lution."

Luc, you're a newbringer!

*gasp, doubletriple entendre!*