Tipping servers and other job items with money motivation.

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dadudemon
Inimalist and I have been discussing this and we each bring up some good points on motivation for tips or other services. I don't care if this thread goes off on tangents, as long as it focuses on motivation for money.


What is the motivation? What is the best way to go about tipping and why? Keep in mind cognitive evaluation theory and other theories on economics. Some of these theories do have empirical efforts, so they should all be brought up.














I hear from some that tipping in Russia might embarrass your server. Is that really true?

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by dadudemon
What is the motivation?

The basic motivations would be to ensure your service is good in the future if you return and secondly that empathy will, for lack of a better word, hurt you if you don't tip someone when it's socially appropriate.

Originally posted by dadudemon
What is the best way to go about tipping and why?

The best way to tip is to offer goods or currency equal to a percentage of your meal's value relative to the server's subjective quality, local customs and personal economic factors.

lil bitchiness
The whole tipping business is bullshit. In Japan it is offensive to tip a taxi driver, because he works for his money and does not take charity.

When I go to the bar or a restaurant, the waiter/tress there has been employed to do a job of serving and giving me a great service. It is in their job description to give a good service and that is what the employer pays them to do.
So, what is tipping? Giving them money for doing what they were supposed to be doing anyway.

If the wage is too low, that is nobody's problem - get another job where the wage is higher.

chomperx9
you should tip based on how good your service was not how much it was.

like i mentioned in the other thread a family can order over $100 in food and get slow and bad service.

while another family eats a meal at a restaurant for $40 bucks and they got better service and the waiter or waitress was more kind than the other one at the more expensive restaurant.

just cause you purchased more of something doesnt do any changes on the performance of how good a waiter or waitress served you.

chomperx9
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
The whole tipping business is bullshit. In Japan it is offensive to tip a taxi driver, because he works for his money and does not take charity.

When I go to the bar or a restaurant, the waiter/tress there has been employed to do a job of serving and giving me a great service. It is in their job description to give a good service and that is what the employer pays them to do.
So, what is tipping? Giving them money for doing what they were supposed to be doing anyway.

If the wage is too low, that is nobody's problem - get another job where the wage is higher. yes i agree 100%

King Kandy
The point of tipping is to subsidize the wages of the waiters. In fancy restaurants the tips are more because they serve fewer people and thus get fewer tips.

This is not good. When I went to Japan, you never tip anybody anything, and it made my food and taxi expenses nearly 20% less.

MildPossession
I think also in Iceland, tipping is seen as quite rude, they don't expect a tip at all.

I'm 100% with Lil Bitchiness on this.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
When I go to the bar or a restaurant, the waiter/tress there has been employed to do a job of serving and giving me a great service. It is in their job description to give a good service and that is what the employer pays them to do.
So, what is tipping? Giving them money for doing what they were supposed to be doing anyway.

No, they get paid to do the job. That's it. Their salary doesn't change for "great service" or "awful service" unless someone tips them better or worse.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
If the wage is too low, that is nobody's problem - get another job where the wage is higher.

People typically don't end up as waiters due to their huge number of job options. The wages are low because of tipping in the first place.

Symmetric Chaos
edit

Lord Lucien
I don't tip unless I'm afraid to piss of my company. I look towards Steve Buscemi's lines in Reservoir Dogs as inspiration.

Darth Macabre
Ryan Reynolds in Waiting says it best..."Don't **** with people who handle your food."

That is all.

Robtard
If you don't want to tip, then don't eat out or ask for services where a tip is expected. Cheap bastards, the lot of you.

chomperx9
Originally posted by Robtard
If you don't want to tip, then don't eat out or ask for services where a tip is expected. Cheap bastards, the lot of you. i agree with you there but are you going to leave a decent tip if you got bad service from your waiter ?

they expect you to tip at a buffet when your the one thats doing the work getting up and getting your own food and drinks. why should you tip there ?

Robtard
Originally posted by chomperx9
i agree with you there but are you going to leave a decent tip if you got bad service from your waiter ?

they expect you to tip at a buffet when your the one thats doing the work getting up and getting your own food and drinks. why should you tip there ?

It's an unwritten rule that bad service affects a tip, so if the server is an idiot or rude, then it's fine to modify the gratuity. Personally, It's extremely rare that I ever leave less than 15%, usually 20%, but I don't go back if the service was that bad.

I've never heard tipping at a buffet, it's rare I eat a one, so I'm ignorant here.

chomperx9
Originally posted by Robtard
It's an unwritten rule that bad service affects a tip, so if the server is an idiot or rude, then it's fine to modify the gratuity. Personally, It's extremely rare that I ever leave less than 15%, usually 20%, but I don't go back if the service was that bad.

I've never heard tipping at a buffet, it's rare I eat a one, so I'm ignorant here. ive been to many buffets where on there tab to sign after paying theres a blank spot for tip. i never put an amount on those. and if they spit on your food then everyone else would eat it as well cause the trays are open to everyone.

inimalist
Originally posted by dadudemon
Inimalist

not capitalized

Originally posted by dadudemon
and I have been discussing this and we each bring up some good points on motivation for tips or other services. I don't care if this thread goes off on tangents, as long as it focuses on motivation for money.


the point was about whether under-tipping/not tipping for perceived poor performance would be an effective tool of motivation for people to become better waiter/waitresses.

Given you seem to have devoted a thread to it, I may as well give it an honest effort. Learning is probably my worst area of psych...

I'll give it a look, but what about this: as a concept, "over" and "under" tipping are relative to the person. in the thread that spawned this, chomper said he only paid in accordance with performance, indicating that he would never "under/over tip". The amount he paid, regardless of the standard, was the proper amount, regardless of the perceptions of the waiter/waitress. Additionally, some people standardly pay more or less than the social norm for tipping, meaning that some cases may appear to be an over/under tip even though there is no intent on the part of the customer to communicate this.

Additionally, many factors other than performance would affect how much you tip. Whether there are social influences, if you with family or with people you hardly know, if you are drunk, the physical attractiveness of the server, you current economic situation or how much money you have on your person, and even just your overall mood irrespective of the meal/service. These things would not only affect how much you would be willing to pay, but also how you perceive the service and the experience. If you are broke, just had a fight with your wife and get some guy who didn't have time to shave before going into work (assuming you aren't into the rugged type) serve you, you might not realize he got called in on his day off when they were understaffed, and he is working the load of 3 people. He gets your order wrong, your mood presets you to under-tip to "teach him a lesson", whereas all it is communicating to him is that you are cheap and ignorant.

For what you are saying to be correct, there would have to be a stronger link between performance and tip than any other factor, including how much a customer normally tips. For a person to effectively learn to perform better, they would have to believe they performed poorly and know that this was the specific reason that they were tipped at a rate lower than standard, and that would have to be the actual motivation of the customer. This is similar to how, when punishing a child, one should attempt to use a punishment that is related to the wrong activity the child was doing. Hitting someone with a toy is better controlled by taking away the child's toy privileges than by sitting them in a corner, I guess iirc.

However, one might not need tip and performance to be the strongest correlation of variables for performance to impact tip in a significant way, and the cultural standard is such that there is enough regularity in tipping to account for people who tip based solely on performance and those who regularly over/under tip. It might be argued that some social pressure to over-tip might force the real average tip above the standard, but that is sort of irrelevant, as I would give you that over-tipping would improve performance (though relative to the caveats I gave).

The reason why over tipping might improve performance but under tipping would not comes from Skinner, and a lot of other learning research. Skinner, at the end of his career, got into the psychology of rehabilitation and the prison system. Basically, he said that prisons failed because they punished people, they gave them no motivation or incentive to get better.

Now, personality differences are important, and as you said, to you getting what you perceived as an "under-tip" made you try harder. That is awesome. However, I know for a fact it doesn't work that way with me , and, not to sound all pompous, that might say more about how you rationalize failure to yourself than about any real behavioural changes.

inimalist
Originally posted by chomperx9
they expect you to tip at a buffet when your the one thats doing the work getting up and getting your own food and drinks. why should you tip there ?

any buffet I have ever gone to has had servers getting drinks and fairly constantly clearing/replacing dirty dishes from people's tables.

I don't think I'd tip if they didn't do that, its not really much more than a cafeteria at that point (though, I guess I throw my change in their tip jars all the time...)

Originally posted by Robtard
It's an unwritten rule that bad service affects a tip, so if the server is an idiot or rude, then it's fine to modify the gratuity. Personally, It's extremely rare that I ever leave less than 15%, usually 20%, but I don't go back if the service was that bad.


Those are my feelings as well

chomperx9
Originally posted by inimalist
and fairly constantly clearing/replacing dirty dishes from people's tables.

thats what they are paid to do. i work at a music store i gotta clean the counter alot after work how come i dont get tipped for that ?

inimalist
Originally posted by chomperx9
thats what they are paid to do. i work at a music store i gotta clean the counter alot after work how come i dont get tipped for that ?

its not the cultural norm

I'd assume your boss also doesn't pay you at a rate lower than you should be getting on account of all the tips you make.

inimalist
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I don't tip unless I'm afraid to piss of my company. I look towards Steve Buscemi's lines in Reservoir Dogs as inspiration.

I don't think that was the point of that scene...

Z-qV9wVGb38

no, I'm pretty sure I'm right here...

wink so good eh?

Darth Macabre
Originally posted by chomperx9
thats what they are paid to do. i work at a music store i gotta clean the counter alot after work how come i dont get tipped for that ? That's not a service.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
No, they get paid to do the job. That's it. Their salary doesn't change for "great service" or "awful service" unless someone tips them better or worse.



People typically don't end up as waiters due to their huge number of job options. The wages are low because of tipping in the first place.

In their job description it is obligatory to give good service - otherwise noone will come eat or spend time/money at the place.
Good service is mandatory for all service jobs - and many service jobs are not tipped.
Search ANY service jobs, and the requirement is 'good/exceptional' customer service.

As it's been said, tipping in a lot of countries is rude and offensive to the person. They are doing a job, not begging or looking for charity because their wage is shit.

The fact that tip is EXPECTED is even worse and more pathetic.
If you cannot find a better job than waitress, then perhaps you should have spent more time in school getting an education.

Silver Service and professional waiters are paid shit loads of money because their service is already exceptional - they're trained professionals - the art of fine service has been supplanted by those who only wait table for the quick buck or to get through college.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
In their job description it is obligatory to give good service - otherwise noone will come eat or spend time/money at the place.
Good service is mandatory for all service jobs - and many service jobs are not tipped.
Search ANY service jobs, and the requirement is 'good/exceptional' customer service.

As it's been said, tipping in a lot of countries is rude and offensive to the person. They are doing a job, not begging or looking for charity because their wage is shit.

The fact that tip is EXPECTED is even worse and more pathetic.
If you cannot find a better job than waitress, then perhaps you should have spent more time in school getting an education.

Silver Service and professional waiters are paid shit loads of money because their service is already exceptional - they're trained professionals - the art of fine service has been supplanted by those who only wait table for the quick buck or to get through college.

You're of course welcome to consistently not tip at restaurants and see what happens to your service srug

dadudemon
Originally posted by inimalist
not capitalized

I am dead serious when I say I debated capital or no captial, before submitting. I decided to capitalize since it was the start of the sentence and your name is a word-name, with a missing leter.

chomperx9
if you can read each others stuff then there shouldn't be a biggy over capitalization or missing one letter. oooo big deal for not hitting shift

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You're of course welcome to consistently not tip at restaurants and see what happens to your service srug How sad is it that we have to submit to them when they're the ones being paid for service.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
How sad is it that we have to submit to them when they're the ones being paid for service.

You don't have to do anything. If you're honestly that terrified of waiters I suggest buying a cookbook or, if your a total incompetent, lots of ramen.

And "paying for food" is hardly the same thing as "submitting". This reminds me of the people who say you're morally justified in gunning down repo men.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
How sad is it that we have to submit to them when they're the ones being paid for service.

Exceptionally sad.

chomperx9
tipping should go by performance not by how much the total is.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You don't have to do anything. If you're honestly that terrified of waiters I suggest buying a cookbook or, if your a total incompetent, lots of ramen.

And "paying for food" is hardly the same thing as "submitting". This reminds me of the people who say you're morally justified in gunning down repo men.

What the hell is the point of that post? I am more than happy to tip a CHEF whos talent for cooking is on my plate, than a waiter who does NOTHING.

My partner is a head chef at a very prominent and expensive restaurant in Montreal.

He prepares food which goes for $50 and up per course - yet, he gets NO tip.

Instead, some half wit who managed to get a plate of food from point A to point B gets a 15% tip from a party that just ate for $2 000.

Tips should go to chefs. He has a good wage, because what he does deserves a good pay, but equally if someone is satisfied, they should be tipping a chef, not someone who brought the plate someone else decorated and cooked the food that is on it.

I see a lot of sense in rewarding a waiter who has brought me food, and not a chef who actually went through trouble to make it.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
What the hell is the point of that post? I am more than happy to tip a CHEF whos talent for cooking is on my plate, than a waiter who does NOTHING.

My partner is a head chef at a very prominent and expensive restaurant in Montreal.

He prepares food which goes for $50 and up per course - yet, he gets NO tip.

Instead, some half wit who managed to get a plate of food from point A to point B gets a 15% tip from a party that just ate for $2 000.

Tips should go to chefs. He has a good wage, because what he does deserves a good pay, but equally if someone is satisfied, they should be tipping a chef, not someone who brought the plate someone else decorated and cooked the food that is on it.

Just bullshit, is all it is.

Tipping doesn't alter what you're paying because their wages are already adjusted on the assumption they get tips (and it's voluntary so stop crying about it). If you don't want to tip, don't tip. It's entirely up to you.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You don't have to do anything. If you're honestly that terrified of waiters I suggest buying a cookbook or, if your a total incompetent, lots of ramen.

And "paying for food" is hardly the same thing as "submitting". This reminds me of the people who say you're morally justified in gunning down repo men. No, when the only reason you tip them is because of fear that they will tamper with your food, it's submitting to, dare I say, terrorism.

I pay for the food and their service. When the service is good, I know they earn the paycheck they've agreed to work for. When it's bad (and I mean bad, not just "behind schedule" bad) I refuse to go there for a few months.

It's a sad affair when giving extra money to your server is a standard and expected practice. May as well hand the guy who pumps my gas an extra $5 for saying "Have a nice day, sir."

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No, when the only reason you tip them is because of fear that they will tamper with your food, it's submitting to, dare I say, terrorism.

I pay for the food and their service. When the service is good, I know they earn the paycheck they've agreed to work for. When it's bad (and I mean bad, not just "behind schedule" bad) I refuse to go there for a few months.

It's a sad affair when giving extra money to your server is a standard and expected practice. May as well hand the guy who pumps my gas an extra $5 for saying "Have a nice day, sir."

Except it's really not. The tradition of tipping resulted in waiters being given lower pay-checks due to the tipping. It doesn't apply to any other professions because their no history so their earning are modified based on that expectation.

It can't be terrorism because terrorists seek you out. This happens completely the other way around. You went out of your way to travel to a restaurant and be exposed to these apparently evil people.

So like I said all these complaints are stupid. If you scared of waiters DON'T GO TO A FVCKING RESTAURANT!

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Tipping doesn't alter what you're paying because their wages are already adjusted on the assumption they get tips (and it's voluntary so stop crying about it). If you don't want to tip, don't tip. It's entirely up to you.

Not really. Tips are standard now and expected.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Except it's really not. The tradition of tipping resulted in waiters being given lower pay-checks due to the tipping. It doesn't apply to any other professions because their no history so their earning are modified based on that expectation.

Really, though, like I said all these complaints are stupid. If you scared of waiters DON'T GO TO A FVCKING RESTAURANT! Do YOU tip?

dadudemon
Originally posted by inimalist
the point was about whether under-tipping/not tipping for perceived poor performance would be an effective tool of motivation for people to become better waiter/waitresses.

Given you seem to have devoted a thread to it, I may as well give it an honest effort. Learning is probably my worst area of psych...

I'll give it a look, but what about this: as a concept, "over" and "under" tipping are relative to the person. in the thread that spawned this, chomper said he only paid in accordance with performance, indicating that he would never "under/over tip". The amount he paid, regardless of the standard, was the proper amount, regardless of the perceptions of the waiter/waitress. Additionally, some people standardly pay more or less than the social norm for tipping, meaning that some cases may appear to be an over/under tip even though there is no intent on the part of the customer to communicate this.

Additionally, many factors other than performance would affect how much you tip. Whether there are social influences, if you with family or with people you hardly know, if you are drunk, the physical attractiveness of the server, you current economic situation or how much money you have on your person, and even just your overall mood irrespective of the meal/service. These things would not only affect how much you would be willing to pay, but also how you perceive the service and the experience. If you are broke, just had a fight with your wife and get some guy who didn't have time to shave before going into work (assuming you aren't into the rugged type) serve you, you might not realize he got called in on his day off when they were understaffed, and he is working the load of 3 people. He gets your order wrong, your mood presets you to under-tip to "teach him a lesson", whereas all it is communicating to him is that you are cheap and ignorant.

I would not tip at all if the service was horrible. I don't do this "under/over" thing. That's just unnecessarily complicated. I calculated tip at 20% and then round up to the nearest dollar. I've only once not tipped at all. The lady didn't bring out something I ordered, denied that I ordered, and it showed up on my receipt. She also gave me a drink that was probably sitting next to something hot before she brought it to me. (the glass was warm and the beverage almost room temp. No, she didn't pee in it. We didn't get that far yet.) nd got mouthy with me about our order when I asked for the item.

I brought it to her manager. Did not tip the mouthy piece of crap (when I was nice), and got half off of my meal.

That type of person should either drastically change they way the serve, or quit their job where they don't interact with people.

Now, had it just stayed at that, and I tipped at my wife's required 20%+, do you think she would have "learned" as well if I didn't tip at all, especially since there was hardly anyone there?

Originally posted by inimalist
For what you are saying to be correct, there would have to be a stronger link between performance and tip than any other factor, including how much a customer normally tips. For a person to effectively learn to perform better, they would have to believe they performed poorly and know that this was the specific reason that they were tipped at a rate lower than standard, and that would have to be the actual motivation of the customer. This is similar to how, when punishing a child, one should attempt to use a punishment that is related to the wrong activity the child was doing. Hitting someone with a toy is better controlled by taking away the child's toy privileges than by sitting them in a corner, I guess iirc.


Luckily, there's a control for almost every place. The outgoing, ultra-efficient server that gets more tips per table than anyone else.

Coworkers talk. And they talk and talk about their tips, almost every table. When an idiot finds out that they are pulling half as much as everyone else, they will ask what others do differently. If you can guess, I was the ultra-efficient outgoing waiter. I made money. I taught others how to get the most tip...even veterans.

I made mistakes. Most of them were in my first week. It's not rocket science, which is why it isn't a very high paying job.

Originally posted by inimalist
However, one might not need tip and performance to be the strongest correlation of variables for performance to impact tip in a significant way, and the cultural standard is such that there is enough regularity in tipping to account for people who tip based solely on performance and those who regularly over/under tip. It might be argued that some social pressure to over-tip might force the real average tip above the standard, but that is sort of irrelevant, as I would give you that over-tipping would improve performance (though relative to the caveats I gave).

The reason why over tipping might improve performance but under tipping would not comes from Skinner, and a lot of other learning research. Skinner, at the end of his career, got into the psychology of rehabilitation and the prison system. Basically, he said that prisons failed because they punished people, they gave them no motivation or incentive to get better.

No, I agree that over-tipping actually plays more of a role in server performance.

To the server, "you were just a little b*tch who wanted everything." However, I found that the server who could meet the "little b*tch's" demands and then some, received a bigger tips from those people. As one frequent customer who was notorious put it to me, "all of these people are idiots and can never get it right."


If everyone treated it the way I did, no tipping would be just as effective as over-tipping, both to indicate poor performance or exceeding expectations, obviously respectively.

However, people are stupid. I don't expect the world to be perfect. I will continue to over-tip regardless of performance because I care more about making my wife happy than "teachin that idiot a lesson." big grin

Originally posted by inimalist
Now, personality differences are important, and as you said, to you getting what you perceived as an "under-tip" made you try harder. That is awesome. However, I know for a fact it doesn't work that way with me , and, not to sound all pompous, that might say more about how you rationalize failure to yourself than about any real behavioural changes.

Except, "under-tipped" or "no-tip" is covered in the basic training for being a server. Of course, they probably preface it with "now, this isn't always the case"...but my training, as well as all of the newbs got the ol' "if they didn't leave a tip or they left a small tip, evaluate what you did and try to improve on it."


The first day for servers comprised of HOW to get the biggest tip possible and the do's and don'ts. For things to be that standardized, I would think it's not the way i particularly think.

dadudemon
Originally posted by chomperx9
if you can read each others stuff then there shouldn't be a biggy over capitalization or missing one letter. oooo big deal for not hitting shift

Well, in my case, I hit the shift instead of not hitting it...meaning, it was deliberate.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Do YOU tip?

I don't usually go to restaurants. But yes I usually leave a 15% tip much in the same way that when I go to a gas station I don't drive off before the guy comes back.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I don't usually go to restaurants. But yes I usually leave a 15% tip much in the same way that when I go to a gas station I don't drive off before the guy comes back.

I don't understand your comparison.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Not really. Tips are standard now and expected.

Which doesn't change anything I said.

You choose to tip or not.
You choose to go to a restaurant.
The restaurant still pays them less than they otherwise would.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Which doesn't change anything I said.

You choose to tip or not.
You choose to go to a restaurant.
The restaurant still pays them less than they otherwise would.

I wonder about that: why don't they get paid minimum wage?

What type of loop hole exists for them not to have to pay them minimum wage?

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't understand your comparison.

Taking a good or service and not upholding the part of the contract where you pay for said good or service. It's voluntary every time except that the waiter cannot legally enforce the contract, really tipping is less extortion than paying for anything else since it's not robbery in the eyes of the law.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Which doesn't change anything I said.

You choose to tip or not.
You choose to go to a restaurant.
The restaurant still pays them less than they otherwise would.

I couldn't give a rats ass they don't get paid a lot. Not my problem.

And I do chose what I do, that however does not change anything I said in my original post, which indicates that the culture of tipping is bullshit.
Which it is.
End.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by dadudemon
I wonder about that: why don't they get paid minimum wage?

What type of loop hole exists for them not to have to pay them minimum wage?

That's not what I mean. If a restaurant forbid accepting tips they would have to raise wages to get any waiters. Tipping costs you nothing in America.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I couldn't give a rats ass they don't get paid a lot. Not my problem.

And I do chose what I do, that however does not change anything I said in my original post, which indicates that the culture of tipping is bullshit.
Which it is.
End.

No it's not.

END. (the capitals make it more true)

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
No it's not.

END. (the capitals make it more true)

That's rich coming from someone who doesn't really eat out.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
That's rich coming from someone who doesn't really eat out.

Rich coming from someone who actively chooses to eat out.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That's not what I mean. If a restaurant forbid accepting tips they would have to raise wages to get any waiters. Tipping costs you nothing in America. That's the problem, though. I'd personally feel better paying a bit more for a meal to cover a server's extra pay than be made to feel obligated to simply hand them money in the name of exemplary service.

At McDonald's, the workers at the cash desk are forbidden to accept tips. Their pay is minimum wage.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Rich coming from someone who actively chooses to eat out.

Of course. I therefore have an understanding of why tipping is unfair to others who work at a restaurant.
See chef and busboy.

dadudemon
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
That's rich coming from someone who doesn't really eat out.

laughing laughing laughing


shifty

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by dadudemon
laughing laughing laughing


shifty

You're such a dirty bastard.

inimalist
Originally posted by dadudemon
I am dead serious when I say I debated capital or no captial, before submitting. I decided to capitalize since it was the start of the sentence and your name is a word-name, with a missing leter.

The M would have been capitalized. The second letter of a word is not capitalized at the beginning of a paragraph.

Originally posted by chomperx9
if you can read each others stuff then there shouldn't be a biggy over capitalization or missing one letter. oooo big deal for not hitting shift

I take this deathly seriously

Rogue Jedi
Tipping is offensive in parts of the world? Never knew that.

I tip according to service. If a waiter/waitress at a restaraunt is nice, if they go outta their way to accomodate, I tip 15ish%, even if the food is crappy.

I don't tip pizza drivers.

I don't tip taxi drivers.

I Come to think of it, the only people I tip are waiters/waitresses.

Tipping can be non monetary, also. I get free food from my hotel guests all the time. The local police come by and eat out continental breakfast every morning. I get offered concert tickets left and right.

dadudemon
Originally posted by inimalist
The M would have been capitalized. The second letter of a word is not capitalized at the beginning of a paragraph.

Since it's a name, though, the "first" letter doesn't exist, and we start with "i", so I'm figuring on capitlizing it.



I originally typed it lower case. I hit preview, and it just looked wrong. I didn't want my post to start resembling chomper's. (No offense, chomper)



Originally posted by inimalist
I take this deathly seriously

Yeah right. A bowl or two later and the only thing you'll care about is a bag of dorritos.

dadudemon
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
You're such a dirty bastard.

I didn't post one word and you got it.





That's actually sexy. naughty

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by dadudemon
I didn't post one word and you got it.





That's actually sexy. naughty

lol I was going to say how it's not just your head that's in a gutter, but you whole fell in, but then I released that just by being on the same line as you, I am in the same gutter position too!

-Pr-
I've never understood the culture of tipping. In europe (a few parts ive been to anyways) it's not the done thing, nor is it expected. Coming to canada i honestly wondered how the hell am i going to learn how to tip, how much is enough etc...

seriously, i know some people need the money, and on occasion i have tipped a little, but telling me i'm expected to pay extra for a service i already paid for just seems, i dunno, silly.

chomperx9
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I couldn't give a rats ass they don't get paid a lot. Not my problem.

And I do chose what I do, that however does not change anything I said in my original post, which indicates that the culture of tipping is bullshit.
Which it is.
End. laughing i love you in_love

chomperx9
if you eat in at whataburger they bring you your oder to your table. how come your not supposed to tip them and im sure they make less then what waiters get at a nice restaraunt.

dadudemon
Originally posted by chomperx9
if you eat in at whataburger they bring you your oder to your table. how come your not supposed to tip them and im sure they make less then what waiters get at a nice restaraunt.

YOU DON'T TIP THEM! YOU EVIL MAN, YOU!














And, just so you guys know, this is why I chose 20% to tip:


Just move the decimal over to the left, one place. Then double the resulting number.



For something that totals 65.24.


that's 6.52

Double it.

13.04 <----that's your tip.


It's quick and easy and it makes you look smart to people busting their brains to calculate it.



For those of you who want to round down to 18%.


Do what I did above to find the 20%.


Then, move the decimal over one more place to get the amount that you subtract from 13.04.



So,


13.04-1.30 = 11.74




11.74= 65.24*.18



It seems complicated, but it's not. It're real easy, as long as you can move a decimal and do 2nd grade math.

chomperx9
Originally posted by dadudemon
YOU DON'T TIP THEM! YOU EVIL MAN, YOU!














And, just so you guys know, this is why I chose 20% to tip:


Just move the decimal over to the left, one place. Then double the resulting number.



For something that totals 65.24.


that's 6.52

Double it.

13.04 <----that's your tip.


It's quick and easy and it makes you look smart to people busting their brains to calculate it.



For those of you who want to round down to 18%.


Do what I did above to find the 20%.


Then, move the decimal over one more place to get the amount that you subtract from 13.04.



So,


13.04-1.30 = 11.74




11.74= 65.24*.18



It seems complicated, but it's not. It're real easy, as long as you can move a decimal and do 2nd grade math. i dont go by % i go by performance just cause you spend 100 bucks on food at a restaurant doesnt mean they should get a $20 tip. their performance has nothing to do with how much you ordered.

dadudemon
Originally posted by chomperx9
i dont go by % i go by performance just cause you spend 100 bucks on food at a restaurant doesnt mean they should get a $20 tip. their performance has nothing to do with how much you ordered.

So, you'll give a $20 tip to someone who did a ridiculously good job...even if you only ordered a margarita and your date ordered a $10 side?

If so, you'd be the most awesomest customer ever. yes

-Pr-
Originally posted by dadudemon
YOU DON'T TIP THEM! YOU EVIL MAN, YOU!














And, just so you guys know, this is why I chose 20% to tip:


Just move the decimal over to the left, one place. Then double the resulting number.



For something that totals 65.24.


that's 6.52

Double it.

13.04 <----that's your tip.


It's quick and easy and it makes you look smart to people busting their brains to calculate it.



For those of you who want to round down to 18%.


Do what I did above to find the 20%.


Then, move the decimal over one more place to get the amount that you subtract from 13.04.



So,


13.04-1.30 = 11.74




11.74= 65.24*.18



It seems complicated, but it's not. It're real easy, as long as you can move a decimal and do 2nd grade math.

you still haven't explained WHY we should tip, though. stick out tongue

chomperx9
Originally posted by dadudemon
So, you'll give a $20 tip to someone who did a ridiculously good job...even if you only ordered a margarita and your date ordered a $10 side?

If so, you'd be the most awesomest customer ever. yes no i wouldnt but would you leave a 20 tip after spending 100 bucks at a fancy restaraunt and the waiter messed up your order was slow brought you dirty silver wear now does that deserve a 20% tip ?

dadudemon
Originally posted by -Pr-
you still haven't explained WHY we should tip, though. stick out tongue


Because tipping is the dictate of the social norm.


And being a nonconformist, in this particular facet, is not socially acceptable.


Tip or be chided!

jalek moye
I don't tip unless people with me make me tip. I've never understood why everyone tips. I mean we do it because they don't make much but they don't make much because we tip.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by dadudemon
Because tipping is the dictate of the social norm.


And being a nonconformist, in this particular facet, is not socially acceptable.


Tip or be chided!

Majoratarianism! mad

dadudemon
Originally posted by chomperx9
no i wouldnt but would you leave a 20 tip after spending 100 bucks at a fancy restaraunt and the waiter messed up your order

Ahem


*server big grin


And, if the waiter only did it to one of us and apologized and admitted fault, I would still tip. Making a mistake is to be expected.


Originally posted by chomperx9
was slow

If they were slow but told me they would be a bit due to being busy, with an apology, of course I wouldn't mind.


Originally posted by chomperx9
brought you dirty silver wear

The server didn't wash the silverware and doesn't and shouldn't inspect them.

However, it is VERY disgusting. lol

If they apologized and comp'ed something, sure, I would still tip them as much as I would have if they didn't make a mistake.

Originally posted by chomperx9
now does that deserve a 20% tip ?


If they did all of the above, even with apologies, it wouldn't be acceptable. I wouldn't tip.

I would have walked out when I got dirty silveware.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Majoratarianism! mad
I, uh.



Damnit! sad

chomperx9
Originally posted by dadudemon
Ahem


*server big grin


And, if the waiter only did it to one of us and apologized and admitted fault, I would still tip. Making a mistake is to be expected.




If they were slow but told me they would be a bit due to being busy, with an apology, of course I wouldn't mind.




The server didn't wash the silverware and doesn't and shouldn't inspect them.

However, it is VERY disgusting. lol

If they apologized and comp'ed something, sure, I would still tip them as much as I would have if they didn't make a mistake.




If they did all of the above, even with apologies, it wouldn't be acceptable. I wouldn't tip.

I would have walked out when I got dirty silveware. do you go to church ?

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by chomperx9
do you go to church ?

I think they call it a Tabernacle.

dadudemon
Originally posted by chomperx9
do you go to church ?


What relevance is this question.


I need to know where you're coming from to be able to answer this correctly.

chomperx9
Originally posted by dadudemon
What relevance is this question.


I need to know where you're coming from to be able to answer this correctly. to answer this correctly ? its a yes or no question

dadudemon
Originally posted by chomperx9
to answer this correctly ? its a yes or no question

I obviously cannot answer the question, based on this response.

Rogue Jedi
Aren't waiters and waitresses paid shit salaries?

chomperx9
Originally posted by dadudemon
I obviously cannot answer the question, based on this response. you ask me a question il answer it. if the answer is yes then ok just wondering if no same thing

-Pr-
Originally posted by dadudemon
Because tipping is the dictate of the social norm.


And being a nonconformist, in this particular facet, is not socially acceptable.


Tip or be chided!

in america, yes. but i'm not american. stick out tongue

chomperx9
Originally posted by -Pr-
but i'm not american. stick out tongue so where you from ?

-Pr-
Originally posted by chomperx9
so where you from ?

ireland, but currently living in canada.

chomperx9
Originally posted by -Pr-
ireland, but currently living in canada. blame canada blame canada

-Pr-
Originally posted by chomperx9
blame canada blame canada

i haven't been here that long, so i have no idea how the whole tipping thing works over here...

dadudemon
Originally posted by chomperx9
you ask me a question il answer it. if the answer is yes then ok just wondering if no same thing

What are you goals for your question? Why is it even important?

Are you trying to equate perceived altruisms in my post to some sort of theological teaching?

Areyou trying to equate some sort of perceived negative to some sort of theological teaching?

If you don't answer that, you will never get an answer from me.

chomperx9
Originally posted by dadudemon
What are you goals for your question? Why is it even important?

Are you trying to equate perceived altruisms in my post to some sort of theological teaching?

Areyou trying to equate some sort of perceived negative to some sort of theological teaching?

If you don't answer that, you will never get an answer from me. has nothing to do with what you posted was just curious thats all.

dadudemon
Originally posted by chomperx9
has nothing to do with what you posted was just curious thats all.

K.


No. I'm atheist.

chomperx9
Originally posted by dadudemon
K.


No. I'm atheist. alright was just wondering

GCG
Im not tipping anyone who doesnt aknowledge the presence of the customer. I may understand that it could be busy, but a simple "i will soon be with you" is enough for me.

Basically if you get attention and are pampered around, a tip would be deserved.


If you need to constantly chase to get service, then you have every right to complain and ask for a discount. Which most of the times works.

inimalist
Originally posted by dadudemon
Since it's a name, though, the "first" letter doesn't exist, and we start with "i", so I'm figuring on capitlizing it.

I originally typed it lower case. I hit preview, and it just looked wrong. I didn't want my post to start resembling chomper's. (No offense, chomper)

The word, however, is still "Minimalist". The awkwardness of it is half of the fun. But no, I invented it, so the "i" stays small.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yeah right. A bowl or two later and the only thing you'll care about is a bag of dorritos.

thats offensive to a diabetic. Please be more careful

also, a couple of bowls and I'm more likely to type 3 paragraphs about why the M is decadent.

inimalist
Originally posted by -Pr-
i haven't been here that long, so i have no idea how the whole tipping thing works over here...

expected 35%

we also tip receptionists and secretaries, so if you've had a job interview that didn't go to well, that probably explains it


























laughing

lil bitchiness
You are mean. lol

The Dark Cloud
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
The whole tipping business is bullshit. In Japan it is offensive to tip a taxi driver, because he works for his money and does not take charity.

When I go to the bar or a restaurant, the waiter/tress there has been employed to do a job of serving and giving me a great service. It is in their job description to give a good service and that is what the employer pays them to do.
So, what is tipping? Giving them money for doing what they were supposed to be doing anyway.

If the wage is too low, that is nobody's problem - get another job where the wage is higher.

Well, tipping is a tradition that helps ensure good service. It might be their job, but they are paid garbage and the law recognizes that part of their income is from tips. If you don't believe in tipping then you simply don't deserve good service. Nothing on this planet says you have no class more so than being cheap.

Robtard
Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
Nothing on this planet says you have no class more so than being cheap.

What about shitting yourself, reaching in for a handful and then smearing it all over the table?

The Dark Cloud
Originally posted by Robtard
What about shitting yourself, reaching in for a handful and then smearing it all over the table?

Depends on who's table it was big grin

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
Well, tipping is a tradition that helps ensure good service. It might be their job, but they are paid garbage and the law recognizes that part of their income is from tips. If you don't believe in tipping then you simply don't deserve good service. Nothing on this planet says you have no class more so than being cheap.

Oh right, I see, so people in other countries simply have no class. That's just offensive, not to mention ridiculous and wrong.
Tipping is an American custom rarely seen elsewhere as it is in North America.

I don't give a flying feck their wage is low. The law does not 'recognize their low wage' or any such thing - their wage is low BECAUSE they receive tons and tons of tips.
Hence government deducts 15% of their wage, whatever it is, because it cannot TAX the tip they get.

This ridiculous custom has equated professional waiters with those who can't get a better job or collage student getting though school - which is even more offensive and wrong.
Waiters elsewhere, trained waiters, have higher wage, because they don't depend on charity and begging in order to do their job.
It's demeaning and pathetic and hence considered quite rude in many parts of the world.

The Dark Cloud
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Oh right, I see, so people in other countries simply have no class. That's just offensive, not to mention ridiculous and wrong.
Tipping is an American custom rarely seen elsewhere as it is in North America.

I don't give a flying feck their wage is low. The law does not 'recognize their low wage' or any such thing - their wage is low BECAUSE they receive tons and tons of tips.
Hence government deducts 15% of their wage, whatever it is, because it cannot TAX the tip they get.

This ridiculous custom has equated professional waiters with those who can't get a better job or collage student getting though school - which is even more offensive and wrong.
Waiters elsewhere, trained waiters, have higher wage, because they don't depend on charity and begging in order to do their job.
It's demeaning and pathetic and hence considered quite rude in many parts of the world.

Well, as someone who's traveled extensivly thru much of Europe, Canada, and Latin America I can say this. The service is MUCH better in Latin America (tipping is quite common in Latin America) and the US than it is in Canada and Europe, hell, even many Europeans I've met will acknowledge this. I've also NEVER had anyone offended by the tips I give them and I give them in Europe and Canada too.

You can have your condescending attitude towards tipped employees and they deserve each and every tip they get simply because they have to deal with people like YOU.

Ushgarak
Canada has a near identical tipping culture to the US, so you saying the service is much worse in Canada kinda destroys your own argument, doesn't it? Makes me very sceptical as to the value of the extensive travel you claim.

It's also ridiculous to call her attitude condescending. It's not condesending to expect someome paid to do their job to do their job without additional 'encouragement' from you, doubly so when the practise is weirdly confinded to certain areas only.

I'm with Lil. Tipping actually makes me acutely uncomfortable, and the idea that it is socially unacceptable to NOT tip is hideous. Simple peer pressure bullying.

Robtard
You don't have to tip, but be mindful enough not to eat at or request a service where tipping is expected because of the professionals wage. Rather simple, really.

Ushgarak
That statement in absolutely no way removes or lessens what a horrible thing tipping is, and it is equally ridiculous that people should feel they have to stay away from places like restaurants because they don't want to get involved in this absurd tipping ritual.

Like I say, just social bullying. Telling people to stay away is likewise. I find that rather horrible, actually. And that is masquerades as a voluntary thing and then it becomes this "If you don't like it, stay away..." issue... that's actively immoral.

Tipping is arbitrary and unfair and weirdly confined to just certain areas which makes the moral argument behind it bullshit. The whole practice should be abolished and all service industries playing by the same rules.

It is within living memory that tipping just about anywhere was considered rude. Now this ridiculous social pressure has forced Governments to adjust laws to align with it. It's... soft-headed gibberish, the whole thing.

Robtard
First of all, you've yet to prove that tipping is a horrible practice as a fact. Need to do that first.

Not tipping a person for their service is as you put it "rather horrible", in places where tipping is established.

Mind you, if you don't tip nothing horrible is going to happen to you, just rude (and cheap) behavior.

Edit: I see you added. Until it's reworked and standards are set. Bewary where you eat/ask for servies, if tipping is so bothersome to you.

Ushgarak
You think it is something that needs proving? If you cannot see how something so arbitrary, unfair and socially nauseating ias a bad thing then that is your own problem.

And your second sentence is a direct symptomn of this. So it is horrible to NOT tip now, is it? This whole thing which is based around giving someone extra for good service, voluntarily... now that's been twisted aroudn to the point where if you do not AUTOMATICALLY pay them, YOU are considered the horrible one? And should expect rude behaviour from professionals as a result? Again- this is simply bullying me for my money.

Seriously, this is the type of thing that causes problems in society, and I find your support of it frankly disturbing.

lil bitchiness
Actually, you have just confirmed everything Ush said in regards to social bullying and peer pressure.

You stated that not tipping is 'rude and cheap behavior'. Which nicely illustrates Ush's point.

The Dark Cloud
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Canada has a near identical tipping culture to the US, so you saying the service is much worse in Canada kinda destroys your own argument, doesn't it? Makes me very sceptical as to the value of the extensive travel you claim.

It's also ridiculous to call her attitude condescending. It's not condesending to expect someome paid to do their job to do their job without additional 'encouragement' from you, doubly so when the practise is weirdly confinded to certain areas only.

I'm with Lil. Tipping actually makes me acutely uncomfortable, and the idea that it is socially unacceptable to NOT tip is hideous. Simple peer pressure bullying.

Canada does not have the same tipping culture the US does. Tipping in Canada is more common than in Europe but not as extensive as in the US. Years ago when I worked in the Las Vegas casino industry we had a saying..."What's the difference between Canoes and Canadians?...Canoes tip"

I know not all Canadians or Europeans are cheap, some tip quite well. There are also many cheap Americans.

I'll add I know quite about service in the UK as well. My sister lives in North Yorkshire so I visit your country every year and know firsthand how service there is as well. In general it is average by American standards, though it has been good on some occasions and really crappy on others. The people always seem genuinely thankful when I leave them a tip.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Again- this is simply bullying me for my money.


Less so than paying for anything else, actually.


And our social problems don't come from tipping, them come from people thinking that society should fall in line with them so quickly. The closest thing we have to real rebels any more is whiny little children.

Robtard
Originally posted by Ushgarak
You think it is something that needs proving? If you cannot see how something so arbitrary, unfair and socially nauseating ias a bad thing then that is your own problem.

And your second sentence is a direct sytmpomn of this. So it is horrible to NOT tip now, is it?This whole thing which is absed aroudn giving someone extra for good service, voluntarily... now that's been twisted aroudn to the point where if you do not AUTOMATICALLY pay them, YOU are considered the horrible one? And should expect rude behaviour from professionals as a result? Again- this is simply bullying me for my money.

Seriously, this is the type of thing that causes problems in society, and I find your support of it frankly disturbing.

So you can't explain it?

It is horrible, considering you're asking for a service where tipping is already established. If the service is horrible, feel free to adjust the gratuity, or not tip at all, that's fine. No one's "bullying" you for money, as on one is forcing you to eat somewhere were tipping is the norm.

What exactly now causes problems for society? Tipping?

Ushgarak
Sorry, Canada does have a tipping culture, and Ontario even has it written into its minimum wage laws, which si something you will only find done similarly in the US.

Meanwhile, all you are saying is... service differs depending on where you go. A tipping cukture makes bugger all difference to that.

dadudemon
Originally posted by inimalist
The word, however, is still "Minimalist". The awkwardness of it is half of the fun. But no, I invented it, so the "i" stays small.

K.

But you can't reneg on this and say I'm a tard for not capitalizing my sentences like a good little 2nd grader.



Originally posted by inimalist
thats offensive to a diabetic. Please be more careful

What? I'm totally lost.

Originally posted by inimalist
also, a couple of bowls and I'm more likely to type 3 paragraphs about why the M is decadent.


K.

Robtard
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Actually, you have just confirmed everything Ush said in regards to social bullying and peer pressure.

You stated that not tipping is 'rude and cheap behavior'. Which nicely illustrates Ush's point.

Wrong, utterly wrong.

Asking for a service where you know tipping is an established practice and then not tipping (providing the service was to your liking) is rude and cheap.

There's no bullying, unless you're being forced to ask for the service.

The Dark Cloud
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Sorry, Canada does have a tipping culture, and Ontario even has it written into its minimum wage laws, which si something you will only find done similarly in the US.

Meanwhile, all you are saying is... service differs depending on where you go. A tipping cukture makes bugger all difference to that.

Do you even read my posts? I agree, Canada does have a tipping culture, just not to the same extant the US does.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by dadudemon
But you can't reneg on this and say I'm a tard for not capitalizing my sentences like a good little 2nd grader.

Capitalization is nothing but a concession to the evils of social pressure. In fact there's an element of bullying in that if you never capitalize things on your resume people might be unwilling to give you a job.

Ushgarak
Originally posted by Robtard
So you can't explain it?

It is horrible, considering you're asking for a service where tipping is already established. If the service is horrible, feel free to adjust the gratuity, or not tip at all, that's fine. No one's "bullying" you for money, as on one is forcing you to eat somewhere were tipping is the norm.

What exactly now causes problems for society? Tipping?

I can and have explained it- you just simply cannot or will not acknowledge it.

The point is that making tipping something expected by default- that IS the horrible thing. And it IS bullying to expect me to tip by default. There is no other area in society where effectively blackmailing people for money in this way is acceptable. It's intensly aggravating that people want to calibrate it so tipping is the norm, but regardless of their pay structure it is absolutely wrong to expect people to pay tips by default.

I'd simply turn it around and say- if your job needs tip for you to make the money you need, then your job is contributing to that immorality and you should get out of it- preferably by being in one of the very many similar public service jobs where there is no cultural expectation of fleecing your customers for more money.

And if a service charge IS still necessary, then just include it in the damn bill rather than making this "you haven't paid me, now I am going to treat you like crap even though I am meant to be a professional" piece of bullshit.

And people like you are supporting this simple bullying immorality. Very sad, really.

And the fact of the after is that I do pay the tip, of course- precisely because of that emotional bullying. The same way I'd pay up iif I got mugged by someone with a gun. That people can find it acceptable though... mystifies me. One of those things that akes me worry about people.

Ushgarak
Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
Do you even read my posts? I agree, Canada does have a tipping culture, just not to the same extant the US does.

Ah, so now you admit that Canada does have a tipping culture, you can also freely admit that you saying that the service there was not as good kinda craps over your original point, doesn;t it?

Sorry, but everyone reading your original post can see it was based around the idea of tipping not being a Canadian thing, which explained your experiences of poor service there.

Your whole argument was undermined there.

Ushgarak
Originally posted by Robtard
Wrong, utterly wrong.

Asking for a service where you know tipping is an established practice and then not tipping (providing the service was to your liking) is rude and cheap.

There's no bullying, unless you're being forced to ask for the service.

No, she is completely right, and expecting me to pay is completely wrong.

You are in the wrong- and are contributing to the bullying by supporting it.

Robtard
Would be some sort of moral quandary if you happened to be serviced in some manner by a person who works solely on tips, ie that's their only income.

The Dark Cloud
Originally posted by Ushgarak
I can and have explained it- you just simply cannot or will not acknowledge it.

The point is that makign tipping something expected by default0- that IS the horrible thing. And it IS bullying to expect me to tip by default. There is no other area in society where efectively blackmailing people for money in this way is acceptable. It's intensly aggravating that people want to calibrate it so tipping is the norm, but regardless of their pay structure it is absolutely wrong to expect people to pay tips by default.

I'd simply turn it around and say- if yuor job needs tip for you to make the money you need, then your job is contributing to that immorality and you shoudkl get out of it.

And if a service charge IS still necessary, then just include it in the damn bill rather than making this "you haven;t paid me, now I am goign to treat you like crap even though I am meant to be a professional" piece of bullshit.

And people like you are supporting this simple bullying immorality. Very sad, really.

And the fact of the after is that I do pay the tip, of course- precisely because of that emotional bullying. The same way I'd pay up iif I got mugged by someone with a gun. That people can find it acceptable though... mystifies me. One pof those things that akes me worry about people.

WOW...Just, WOW! Emotional bullying? Immoral?
The lengths some people will go to to justify being cheap. I don't think Robtard is the one needing worrying about

Robtard
Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, she is completely right, and expecting me to pay is completely wrong.

You are in the wrong- and are contributing to the bullying by supporting it.

I could say "no you're wrong", but that'd just be circular.

Until you can show me how you're being forced to both eat/ask for a service where tipping is expected, it's not bullying.

Like I said, no one's forcing you to leave a tip and nothing bad will happen to you if you don't. But I'd avoid going back to that eatery, just saying.

dadudemon
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Oh right, I see, so people in other countries simply have no class. That's just offensive, not to mention ridiculous and wrong.
Tipping is an American custom rarely seen elsewhere as it is in North America.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I don't give a flying feck their wage is low. The law does not 'recognize their low wage' or any such thing - their wage is low BECAUSE they receive tons and tons of tips.

Objection, your honor. They do not get "tons and tons" of tips...unless they work at a t*tty bar and are serving the food/drinks topless with a side of lap-dance.

Being a server isn't a very good living. You can make more in most call centers. Trust me. Back in the day, I quit serving to go make more in a call center. no expression


Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Hence government deducts 15% of their wage, whatever it is, because it cannot TAX the tip they get.

WHAT?

No. You are taxed on your tip income.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. The money you make per hour, pretty much all goes to taxes, because after your tips for the day are reported, the money you got paid per hour almost all goes to taxes.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
This ridiculous custom has equated professional waiters with those who can't get a better job or collage student getting though school - which is even more offensive and wrong.

What?

I'm confused again.

What's wrong with being a server if you're a college student...or a dumbass.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Waiters elsewhere, trained waiters, have higher wage, because they don't depend on charity and begging in order to do their job.
It's demeaning and pathetic and hence considered quite rude in many parts of the world.

But, you see, to us, it's demeaning and pathetic to treat your servers so poorly, regardless of their wage. There's no better way to show your satisfaction of service by bonusing the person who rendered services. A thank you is empty and meaningless. But a crisp 20 isn't. It actually means something.

jaden101
I don't know why this is causing the debate it is. You tip at the end. If the service is shit then don't tip and don't go back.

I've even, on occassion, said to a waiter who gave a really crap service (regardless of whether the food is good) "Here's a tip for you...stop being such a miserable, useless **** and maybe you'd make more money" and then walked out without paying. Anyone tries to stop you then you just say you're not paying because the service is utterly terrible.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Robtard
Would be some sort of moral quandary if you happened to be serviced in some manner by a person who works solely on tips, ie that's their only income.

Asking for any sort of payment is social bullying. Sometimes if you leave without paying they'll send the fvcking cops after you. You can actually end up in jail for conceding to this social bullying that is so deeply embedded in our culture.

Ushgarak
Robtard-

If you cannot see how people are socially obligated to pay up then you are either being blind or willfully obstructive to the argument- in which case, I will pay you no futher attention. All reasonable people know that that scial expectation is there.

dadudemon
Originally posted by jaden101
I don't know why this is causing the debate it is. You tip at the end. If the service is shit then don't tip and don't go back.

Exactly. thumb up

Robtard
Originally posted by Ushgarak
obtard-

If you cannot see how people are socially obligated to pay up then you are either being blind or willfully obstructive to the argument- in which case, I will pay you no futher attention. All reasonable people know that that scial expectation is there.

Originally posted by Robtard

Like I said, no one's forcing you to leave a tip and nothing bad will happen to you if you don't. But I'd avoid going back to that eatery, just saying.

The Dark Cloud
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Jesus Christ...I did in the beginning


, you can also freely admit that you saying that the service there was not as good kinda craps over your original point, doesn;t it?

No, I'm saying it isn't as prevelant as it is in the US, which it isn't, and thus service isn't as good. Please learn something about human nature

Sorry, but everyone reading your original post can see it was based around the idea of tipping not being a Canadian thing, which explained your experiences of poor service there.

oh, I'm glad you understand how everyone else views this, thanks for setting me straight

Robtard
Originally posted by dadudemon
Exactly. thumb up

I said that pages ago, where in the **** is my thumbs up.

Ushgarak
Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
WOW...Just, WOW! Emotional bullying? Immoral?
The lengths some people will go to to justify being cheap. I don't think Robtard is the one needing worrying about

Again, it is extremely disturbing that you think it is cheap to not pay someone for a job that they are already being professionally paid for. And you yourself routinely do not tip many other people that serve you during your life.

My payment for good service should be included in the cost of the meal and nowhere else. I should never feel obligated by default to pay those serving me extra just... because they were doing their damn job! I don't ask my students to tip me, do I?

Bringing out this 'cheap' argument is part of that emotional blackmail. And again, you are contributing to it.

Very poor stuff indeed.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Robtard
I said that pages ago, where in the **** is my thumbs up.


You ass. I had to let go of your dick to even give Jaden the thumbs up. My other thumb is in your ass.




You had better tip me or I'll give you the Adolph Hitler with this other thumb.

Ushgarak
Robtard- you saying 'no-one is forcing you' is, basically, avoiding the point and is untrue. You are socially expected to do so, which makes refusing exceptionally difficult. Again, if you don';t ackonwledge that, it is either willful obstruction or stupidity.

Dark Cloud- no you did not in the beginning; that is a feeble lie. Like I said, your original post implied there was no such culture in Canada. Stop trying to wriggle out of it.

The Dark Cloud
Originally posted by dadudemon









. A thank you is empty and meaningless. But a crisp 20 isn't. It actually means something.


thumb up

Ushgarak
Actually, is is again extremely sad that a genuine 'thank you' is being lessened in value so. And the idea that thanks should be replaced with money is... again horrifying.

Robtard
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Robtard- you saying 'no-one is forcing you' is, basically, avoiding the point and is untrue. You are socially expected to do so, which makes refusing exceptionally difficult. Again, if you don';t ackonwledge that, it is either willful obstruction or stupidity.


No one is forcing you, it's expected, but not even the waiter (who you've stiffed, imo) has the right to force a tip from you.

Just curious, do you tip (and hate it) or no?

Ushgarak
I already answered that above. Yes, I hate it.

And it is effectively forced. Again- social pressure. Added to which is the idea that if I DON'T tip, I am somehow making a complaint, which is insane.

Why people accept this is a mystery to me. It is completely illogical, arbitrary, contrary to good sense and specially appleid to a very small number of jobs. Yet people seem to think it is normal and acceptable- principally, it must be said, in the US. It's almost brainwashing.

The Dark Cloud
messedigh: Well, I can see where this is going. I think further discussion on the matter is pointless. I'm going out for a drink, and I'll remember to tip my bartender.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Robtard- you saying 'no-one is forcing you' is, basically, avoiding the point and is untrue. You are socially expected to do so, which makes refusing exceptionally difficult. Again, if you don';t ackonwledge that, it is either willful obstruction or stupidity.

No, I'd say for most of the strong personalities here, refusing is quite easy. In fact, I'd so most of the American GDFers would be far more likely to not tip with bad service than the average American would. Just a guess.

Ushgarak
Thankfully, tipping the barman in the UK is still seen as the height of rudeness. You buy them a dirnk instead.

Robtard
Ushgarack,

Then stop being such a wuss and succumbing to "social pressures", **** the servers and don't tip, if you feel that strongly about it.

Edit: Why is it "brainwashing" is the US? When tipping isn't a US phenomenom.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Actually, is is again extremely sad that a genuine 'thank you' is being lessened in value so. And the idea that thanks should be replaced with money is... again horrifying.

Not replaced, but supplemented with.


Think of it this way: it's socialism. laughing

Ushgarak
Originally posted by dadudemon
No, I'd say for most of the strong personalities here, refusing is quite easy. In fact, I'd so most of the American GDFers would be far more likely to not tip with bad service than the average American would. Just a guess.

Assuming that is true, it doesn't change my argument as it applies to the majority of people rather than 'strong personalities'.

Ushgarak
Originally posted by dadudemon
Not replaced, but supplemented with.

Good God, do you really think that? Do you really think that supplements a thank you rather than destroying its value?

I'm... shocked. What the hell is wrong with people these days? A decent thanks you has no need of any supplementing by bribery.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
Canada does not have the same tipping culture the US does. Tipping in Canada is more common than in Europe but not as extensive as in the US. Years ago when I worked in the Las Vegas casino industry we had a saying..."What's the difference between Canoes and Canadians?...Canoes tip"

I know not all Canadians or Europeans are cheap, some tip quite well. There are also many cheap Americans.

I'll add I know quite about service in the UK as well. My sister lives in North Yorkshire so I visit your country every year and know firsthand how service there is as well. In general it is average by American standards, though it has been good on some occasions and really crappy on others. The people always seem genuinely thankful when I leave them a tip.

Of course it has. I live in Canada and there is a tipping culture of 15%. And in Quebec it is written in the minimum wage law, as well. 15% deducted, so if you don't make the tip of 15%, you CAN technically lose money.

If that is not imposing, I don't really know what is.

Ushgarak
Originally posted by Robtard
Ushgarack,

Then stop being such a wuss and succumbing to "social pressures", **** the servers and don't tip, if you feel that strongly about it.

Edit: Why is it "brainwashing" is the US? When tipping isn't a US phenomenom.

Sorry, but the US is pretty much ground zero of the tip culture. It is seen globally as an American thing.

And you can put on all the bravado you like- but I reckon in fact nearly all of you submit to social pressures. Mr. Pink talked big but he paid up.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by dadudemon
Objection, your honor. They do not get "tons and tons" of tips...unless they work at a t*tty bar and are serving the food/drinks topless with a side of lap-dance.

Being a server isn't a very good living. You can make more in most call centers. Trust me. Back in the day, I quit serving to go make more in a call center. no expression




WHAT?

No. You are taxed on your tip income.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. The money you make per hour, pretty much all goes to taxes, because after your tips for the day are reported, the money you got paid per hour almost all goes to taxes.



What?

I'm confused again.

What's wrong with being a server if you're a college student...or a dumbass.



But, you see, to us, it's demeaning and pathetic to treat your servers so poorly, regardless of their wage. There's no better way to show your satisfaction of service by bonusing the person who rendered services. A thank you is empty and meaningless. But a crisp 20 isn't. It actually means something.

I am talking about Canada, and tip income WAS taxed but since you cannot PROVE tip income and many don't REPORT the tip income, you are taxed on your wage assuming you earned tip.

Robtard
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Sorry, but the US is pretty much ground zero of the tip culture. It is seen globally as an American thing.

And you can put on all the bravado you like- buty I reckon in fact nearly all of you submit to social pressures. Mr. Pink talked big but he paid up.

Yet other countries have it, odd, no.

I don't smoke, I rarely drink, I'll call anyone that cuts me off while driving a "stupid c**t"... wait, I do tip.

Mr. Pink gave a dollar because his meal was being paid for by someone else, his own words.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Sorry, but the US is pretty much ground zero of the tip culture. It is seen globally as an American thing.

And you can put on all the bravado you like- but I reckon in fact nearly all of you submit to social pressures. Mr. Pink talked big but he paid up.

Exactly.

I fail to see why it is difficult for people to comprehend that tipping is not a common thing elsewhere and in many places considered very rude, while in others it is not expected.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Robtard
Yet other countries have it, odd, no.

I don't smoke, I rarely drink, I'll call anyone that cuts me off while driving a "stupid c**t"... wait, I do tip.

All of that is giving into social pressures, even the decision to write in English. In fact, technically, everything that anyone does is the result of social pressure in one way or another.

Ushgarak
Pretty much no other countires have it as storngly as the US. I don't think anywhere outside the American continent has tax laws adjusted to it. Many countries see any attempt to tip as incredibly rude.

Like many other things in American culute, it is 'seeping out' from the States- a very bad thing. But I have no idea why youn think this is 'odd'. America is the centre and source of tipping culture... pretty much a simple fact.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Robtard
Yet other countries have it, odd, no.

I don't smoke, I rarely drink, I'll call anyone that cuts me off while driving a "stupid c**t"... wait, I do tip.

Mr. Pink gave a dollar because his meal was being paid for by someone else, his own words.

Which other countries have it?

In West European countries that do have some kind vague tipping it is included in the bill.

Robtard
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Exactly.

I fail to see why it is difficult for people to comprehend that tipping is not a common thing elsewhere and in many places considered very rude, while in others it is not expected.

No, not exactly, as tipping isn't an American phenomenon.

What's that have to do with anything. Taking off your shoes is a common practice in Asian countries, would you outright refuse if you where in a country where it was the norm based on the grounds that in another country it isn't expected?

Ushgarak
Originally posted by Robtard
Yet other countries have it, odd, no.

I don't smoke, I rarely drink, I'll call anyone that cuts me off while driving a "stupid c**t"... wait, I do tip.

Mr. Pink gave a dollar because his meal was being paid for by someone else, his own words.

Pink was bullied into it, simple as that! Geez.

Ushgarak
Originally posted by Robtard
No, not exactly, as tipping isn't an American phenomenon.


I cannot put this any other way than this:

Yes it is.

That other countries- notably those NEXT to the US- have adopted it does not change that.

Robtard
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Which other countries have it?

In West European countries that do have some kind vague tipping it is included in the bill.

Canada for one, as people have mentioned above. Latin American companies.

So W. Euro do have a tipping system, it's just cleverly disguised as "included in the bill", I think you've been had, Ms., you tip and you accept it as normal.

Ushgarak
Originally posted by Robtard
What's that have to do with anything. Taking off your shoes is a common practice in Asian countries, would you outright refuse if you where in a country where it was the norm based on the grounds that in another country it isn't expected?

I'd object if I found the idea immoral.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Good God, do you really think that? Do you really think that supplements a thank you rather than destroying its value?

Uh. Yeah.


If someone said,"Thank you." to me and handed me a 20, I'd be like, wow, this guy really means it.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I'm... shocked. What the hell is wrong with people these days? A decent thanks you has no need of any supplementing by bribery.

I'm shocked. I didn't know you were a Jew.

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