Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I typically purchase trade paperbacks/graphic novels.

What do you prefer and why?

Snatch and run

I have subscriptions which come very very late as well as buy single issues on occasion which also arrive in the shops very, very late. Shipping sucks, why the hell does it need to go to New Zealand before coming to Europe?

In Astonishing X-Men's case I own single issues and the tradepaper back.

I put on my Masked Avenger costume and tackle people as they come out of comic book shops.

When that's not viable I generally order the trades.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I put on my Masked Avenger costume and tackle people as they come out of comic book shops.


Amen to that brother

That's always a viable option

Buy lots when they come out

Mostly single issues at a comic book shop. I have about 30-40 trades/paperbacks too.

I get all my goods from my local comic shop. I get Previews every month. The nice thing about my shop is that I can order anything from previews through my comic shops online previews setup. SO that is how I submit my orders. EVERY STORE SHOULD DO THIS.

http://www.happyharborcomics.com/

My old shop, I had to write everything down & hand in a piece of paper, then pray that they would not lose it. I would never get any statues, tee shirts, toys or alternative comics cause the dude imputing all these orders hated anything not Marvel or DC! LOL THANK GOD I NO LONGER SHOP THERE!!!

MY COMICS STORE JUST had an 80% off sale on all back issues. So now I am 8 issues away from a complete run of Avengers West Coast!

w00t

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I have subscriptions which come very very late as well as buy single issues on occasion which also arrive in the shops very, very late. Shipping sucks, why the hell does it need to go to New Zealand before coming to Europe?

In Astonishing X-Men's case I own single issues and the tradepaper back.

Trust me, we have the same problems in Canada (WHERE MOST COMICS ARE PRINTED!!!! Or used to be at least..)

I've only ever had one subscription. My wife got me a year-long subscription to the Incredible Hulk about 3 yrs ago as an Xmas present.

AWFUL SERVICE!!! I would peruse my local comic shop every few weeks, see the newest issue of 'Planet Hulk' out, and have to wait LITERALLY 1-2 months before mine arrived in the mail.

Never again...

Its bit of both for me Single Issues and trades/Omnibus especally for the older stuff.

I get trades when they come out for a a certain arc in a series. For events I wait till its over and buy it and all the tie ins all at once

mostly single issues when they come out..

if stories are good i'll buy trade paperbacks

i only get trades when i can't get my hands on the individual issues, tbh.

i prefer trades when its a story arc. I only prefer single issues for events since the tie ins arnt in the trade.

Wait till kids come out of the comic store and beat the shit outta them.

I buy hardcovers only. Unless it's a comic I don't really care for, then I buy the TPB.

I Read comics over someones shoulder.





I usually buy trades or hardcovers for most things these days, exceptions being Spidey, sometimes Batman and up until now, Cap.

Up until Cap Reborn, I bought single issues. However I think I'm gonna start getting the trades for Cap from now on.

I sometimes buy the single issues for a major event but I prefer the trades (I'm waiting for the Blackest Night trade which is killing me, after reading the first issue)

I have a few random things in single issues, some one shots, some Green Lantern. I own Millar's run of Ultimates in single issue, but I'm really tempted to buy the Omnibus on Amazon cos it looks gorgeous

DCP! (Since no one is saying it)

Mostly singles then if I need to show anyone something that they ignored (you know who you are) then I can scan easier. TPB if I don't have it and want them all, very quick, last way to go eBay shopping

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
DCP! (Since no one is saying it)

DCP? Why what ever is that good sir?

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
DCP! (Since no one is saying it)

Well at least you're honest......










BURN HIM ALIVE!!!!!!!

(Actually I sometimes use DCP myself in deciding whether to buy a trade or not.)

I go to the store and/or buy them legit.

You know, like a fan.

Single issues if I love the series, trades if I can't be bothered with those.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I go to the store and/or buy them legit.

You know, like a fan.

Single issues if I love the series, trades if I can't be bothered with those.

-AC
You can buy them legit online..........


how does getting them online make you less of a fan.......








I personally have a sub scription and by individual issues, and by old ones either as a trade or dollar or 5 dollar bin box. I also buy CD roms as well.

-BH

Yeah, my (legally obtained) ASM #1-500 CDs are one of the prizes of my collection. There's also a couple good store links in the comic resources thread here in this forum.

I buy most of mine from the local shop. The dude who works Wednesdays and I have a fair amount in common, so we bullsh*t and whatnot while he plays video games at work and I browse lazily through the comics.

Lately, I've been buying a lot of my trades/graphic novels off of Amazon. They're cheaper and arrive in great condition, etc.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
DCP? Why what ever is that good sir?

Comic version of Limewire.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I go to the store and/or buy them legit.

You know, like a fan.

Single issues if I love the series, trades if I can't be bothered with those.

-AC

If I wasnt a fan, I wouldnt even bothered getting comics in any format. To be honest to get trades, Id rather go to DCP. In the long run, trades dont worth much.

On the legal side, If I like a particular event (GL:Rebirth, Sinestro Corps, Planet Hulk), Ill go to ebay. Most times after an event finished people would sell the complete thing on ebay. Sometimes much cheaper If buying all issues separately.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You know, like a fan.-AC

Now you've lost me.

Originally posted by theICONiac
Trust me, we have the same problems in Canada (WHERE MOST COMICS ARE PRINTED!!!! Or used to be at least..)

I've only ever had one subscription. My wife got me a year-long subscription to the Incredible Hulk about 3 yrs ago as an Xmas present.

AWFUL SERVICE!!! I would peruse my local comic shop every few weeks, see the newest issue of 'Planet Hulk' out, and have to wait LITERALLY 1-2 months before mine arrived in the mail.

Never again...

That's interesting, mine comes around the same time 2 months late is at best. I've had 3 months late before.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Comic version of Limewire.


Where do you find this comic version of Limewire??

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
That's interesting, mine comes around the same time 2 months late is at best. I've had 3 months late before.

A 3 month gap happened once to me...

The 'Incredible Hulk' series ended (well, changed to Incred Herc) and I didn't recieve any more, even though I was sure I still had a 12th issue owed to me. So I went out an bought Rulk # 1.

Lo and behold, approx. 3 months later Rulk # 1 shows up in my mailbox.

Wonder if service from DC is as bad??

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Darth, it doesn't matter if trades aren't worth "much".


I wonder what's jacking up the price. Oh, that'll be downloaders. Leeching music wasn't enough, not it's comics too.



I dont agree with that. The pricing its something that comes with the times (same as gas). When I started collecting, comics were between $1.25 -$2 at the most. Now its between $3 and $5. It has nothing to do with downloaders. Downloading comics is something that hasnt been around for that long time anyways. I agree that some creators deserve every penny. Some on the other hand, do not. Something like Ultimatum I wouldnt pay a dime for. Even If I downloaded it, it would be deleted right after because its crap. Same for anything by Rob Liefield. Like I stated, when I like a particular storyline, I try to get it on ebay or at the local comic book store.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
I dont agree with that. The pricing its something that comes with the times (same as gas). When I started collecting, comics were between $1.25 -$2 at the most. Now its between $3 and $5. It has nothing to do with downloaders. Downloading comics is something that hasnt been around for that long time anyways. I agree that some creators deserve every penny. Some on the other hand, do not. Something like Ultimatum I wouldnt pay a dime for. Even If I downloaded it, it would be deleted right after because its crap. Same for anything by Rob Liefield. Like I stated, when I like a particular storyline, I try to get it on ebay or at the local comic book store.

Ridiculous argument.

If you went to a restaurant and had a bad meal, you wouldn't then refuse to pay. You'd pay because that's the right thing to do and because you know you'd get in legal trouble if you didn't. You would then proceed to not come back.

Therefore, even if a comic is crap, the fact that you've had it in your possession and read it means that they deserved the money for it. The only reason you don't give it is because stealing from the internet is anonymous and cowardly.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Ridiculous argument.

If you went to a restaurant and had a bad meal, you wouldn't then refuse to pay. You'd pay because that's the right thing to do and because you know you'd get in legal trouble if you didn't. You would then proceed to not come back.

Therefore, even if a comic is crap, the fact that you've had it in your possession and read it means that they deserved the money for it. The only reason you don't give it is because stealing from the internet is anonymous and cowardly.

-AC

When I go to a restaurant I know what Im ordering for the most part. If I order something and I dont like it how they cooked it, I either dont go to that restaurant or dont order that particular food.

If I buy a bad comic, it is not because they deserve the money. It means that I dont read comics at the comic book store. I buy them with my hard earn dollars only to find out at home that they are utter crap. Now not only im stuck with a crappy book thats not gonna worth anything but I wasted my money on it. On todays economy we cant afford to waste money just like that. Unlike music, downloading comics really dont do anything(besides reading free) for whoever does it since the real value for a comic will be for the actual book and not a file.

Bottom line, If I can download a comic, preview it and if I like it then buy, I should do so. I wouldnt give the Liefields, Loebs(lately at least) or the Reginals Hudlins of the comic book universe a dime.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
When I go to a restaurant I know what Im ordering for the most part. If I order something and I dont like it how they cooked it, I either dont go to that restaurant or dont order that particular food.

...but you pay regardless.

No more need be said, but you did anyway. So I'll reply.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
If I buy a bad comic, it is not because they deserve the money. It means that I dont read comics at the comic book store. I buy them with my hard earn dollars only to find out at home that they are utter crap.

Then stick to what you know you like. You do it with food, why not with comics? If you want to take the risk, then that's your own fault. You shouldn't try to get around it by, you know, downloading the comic.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Now not only im stuck with a crappy book thats not gonna worth anything but I wasted my money on it. On todays economy we cant afford to waste money just like that. Unlike music, downloading comics really dont do anything(besides reading free) for whoever does it since the real value for a comic will be for the actual book and not a file.

It's not a matter of whether you're stuck with it or not. It's a matter of; if you aren't prepared to stick with what you know will be good, then you run the risk of buying something disappointing. That's the risk you run. If you're gonna bring the economy into this, then that's all the more reason to pay for comic books, because those people are human too. They do need to be paid for their jobs.

In THIS economy, nobody deserves to be ripped off of money they earn from their work. You wouldn't like it done to you.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Bottom line, If I can download a comic, preview it and if I like it then buy, I should do so. I wouldnt give the Liefields, Loebs(lately at least) or the Reginals Hudlins of the comic book universe a dime.

Then don't own their comics at all, if they're that bad.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri




In THIS economy, nobody deserves to be ripped off of money they earn from their work. You wouldn't like it done to you.

-AC

Thank u! I dont like to get ripped off. Because of that I will only buy a comic IF I like it. Green Lantern, X-men, Avengers Ill pay for. Anything else, only if I like it.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri




Then don't own their comics at all, if they're that bad.

-AC

Thats the thing, I dont. Best part, Im not losing any sleep over it.

Thats all for now. Got some free ppv to watch online.

Trying to justify downloading comics illegally seems pretty ridiculous to me. I don't have as much of an issue with older franchises where the author and/or creator of a comic are deceased. Creative rights and whatnot. As such, I disagree with a fair amount of copyright law that keeps characters as non-public properties long after their creators are gone. Comics are trickier, because you have ongoing changes to authors. But I wouldn't have an issue with downloading, say, stuff from the early part of the century, whose writers and artists are all gone. Living authors though.....yeah.

Even saying you're "browsing" them, then deleting them if they stink, is disingenuous to the industry. I don't like paying for sh*t more than anyone else. But I support the industry I love, even if I end up with a few duds in my collection. Browsing in comic shops, usually encouraged (and legal), is a great way around this.

That said, I've done some spot research for tourneys through such means. An unfortunate necessity of the insane amount of information that one must know on such short notice in order to even compete. It's one of the reasons I prefer watching/judging/hosting to entering tourneys (there are others, however). I always feel a little dirty inside, but realize that I could never order everything in time and would likely lose early and often in the tourneys otherwise.

if i buy a comic, and think it's shite, i can't bring it back to the store and say i didn't like it and i want a refund.

i will gladly pay full price for a comic that is worth the money, but i seriously have no sympathy for anyone who's going to a) butcher characters and call it a comic, and B) put out a sub standard product.

fans are supposed to vote with their wallets, and as long as people keep buying stuff like matt fraction x-men, nothing is going to change. i'm not going to be a contributor to that, hence me not reading x-men anymore.

but people download the good stuff mostly and just keep it at that which is a huge problem.

Me personally i read parts of it at the comic shop to see if I want to buy it or not, unless it's part of a series i'm currently reading.

Originally posted by jalek moye
but people download the good stuff mostly and just keep it at that which is a huge problem.

Me personally i read parts of it at the comic shop to see if I want to buy it or not, unless it's part of a series i'm currently reading.

and that's fine. people should support the comic industry so that they can see the writers they like put out more comics and such...

I only DL just for scans but I will try and support the industry as best I can. In fear that some day comics books will die out and only online will be in its future.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
When I go to a restaurant I know what Im ordering for the most part. If I order something and I dont like it how they cooked it, I either dont go to that restaurant or dont order that particular food.

and if you don't like it at the time, you can send it back to the kitchen. so yeah, as you said, you have options...

Originally posted by The Nuul
I only DL just for scans but I will try and support the industry as best I can. In fear that some day comics books will die out and only online will be in its future.

If it turns out like that i'll probably won't ready as many comics not a big fan of online comics.

Originally posted by Kazenji
If it turns out like that i'll probably won't ready as many comics not a big fan of online comics.
neither am I

I like physically having them to take somewhere or read whenever. instead of needing to be on the computer

Originally posted by tjcoady
In response to your last comment, Will Rules was clearly kidding.

The times I've downloaded comics are: Miracleman, Micronauts, and to get the issues of Suicide Squad that have never been reprinted.



I agree with that, I would download things that you can't get access to without paying some guy alot more then its worth.

But for modern ones we need to support thes writers and artist that make good products

Originally posted by tjcoady
In response to your last comment, Will Rules was clearly kidding.

The times I've downloaded comics are: Miracleman, Micronauts, and to get the issues of Suicide Squad that have never been reprinted.

Do I feel guilty? A little bit. But not really. These are comics that are being kept out of print by ridiculousness, and I've actually tried to pay for them, and couldn't.

I agree completely with your point. However, it's utterly fallacious to claim that the reason comics aren't sixty cents anymore is downloaders. Comic prices increased in 1993, for instance- clearly long before downloading them was an issue.

The reason albums cost so much is not because of downloading, but because of the current state of the record industry; especially considering the fact that the artist makes MAYBE fifty cents off every album sold. As wealthy as some pop artist is getting off CD sales, Sony or someone else is getting much, much wealthier.

Anyways, that's outside of the purview of this thread. Generally, what I don't buy individually when it comes out (usually about five a week), I just read in the store. I'm pretty friendly with the guy at my shop, and it's not really an issue for him, because I'm a regular customer who drops a decent, if not ridiculous amount of money each week.

Completely agreed and yes I was joking around, clearly humour is lost on some people

I can't justify downloading comic (even though I have occasionally downloaded in the past) but I understand why people do it.

Many people, especially fans like to perceive a relationship with the industry they are constantly buying into. They see it as almost an ongoing relationship, where they support the authors and their work. But at the end of the day, a business is a business. We are paying customers and if the general consensus amongst fans is that a comic is bad, blame is inevitably going to be placed on the author/artist/publisher. If Marvel or DC or whatever company prints a bad comic, then fans aren't voting with their dollars for that comic if they buy it because (unless you're fortunate enough to read it before purchase) you can't tell whether it's worth "voting" for or not. Combine that problem with the sinking quality of some titles matched with the rising of prices (due to the general state of the economy worldwide) and you can easily see why people do it.

Not saying it's right, but it's understandable. The comics industry isn't doing itself any favours at the moment and it's not just the fault of the fans who download, even though there is an obvious issue there in terms of business.

That's a nothing argument, though.

"You can see why people do it.". I can't, I can't see why people download comics by authors or companies they know they dislike, just to say "See? Shit. Glad I didn't buy it.".

I don't sit here downloading stuff by Chris Claremont just to say I dislike it.

Now, back to my lunch.

-AC

I am 17,with no job.I have never downloaded a comic,ever,and my collection is still massive.


So if you have ever downloaded a comic,just note,you are little more than a black hole, sucking away nutrients that could be used to sustain us real fans,and valuable members of society. You festering piles of dog shit.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's a nothing argument, though.

"You can see why people do it.". I can't, I can't see why people download comics by authors or companies they know they dislike, just to say "See? Shit. Glad I didn't buy it.".

I don't sit here downloading stuff by Chris Claremont just to say I dislike it.

Now, back to my lunch.

-AC

No, your argument doesn't make sense. How do they know they won't like it until they read it? By author? I have hated Jeph Loeb's recent stuff but he has written some brilliant comics as well. Character? Title? Artist? Same rule applies.

I don't know anyone who buys or downloads a title so they can go "See I'd knew it'd be crap!" They buy it to read it and then they discover if they like it or not.

Like I've already said, I'm not justifying it but some people download a comic to see if it's worth picking up or not. "Fans vote with their dollars" is a stupid statement put out by the major publishers.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
I am 17,with no job.I have never downloaded a comic,ever,and my collection is still massive.


So if you have ever downloaded a comic,just note,you are little more than a black hole, sucking away nutrients that could be used to sustain us real fans,and valuable members of society. You festering piles of dog shit.

then seriously, how do you afford them?

also, lulz at this "real fans" bs.

Originally posted by willRules
Completely agreed and yes I was joking around, clearly humour is lost on some people

I can't justify downloading comic (even though I have occasionally downloaded in the past) but I understand why people do it.

Many people, especially fans like to perceive a relationship with the industry they are constantly buying into. They see it as almost an ongoing relationship, where they support the authors and their work. But at the end of the day, a business is a business. We are paying customers and if the general consensus amongst fans is that a comic is bad, blame is inevitably going to be placed on the author/artist/publisher. If Marvel or DC or whatever company prints a bad comic, then fans aren't voting with their dollars for that comic if they buy it because (unless you're fortunate enough to read it before purchase) you can't tell whether it's worth "voting" for or not. Combine that problem with the sinking quality of some titles matched with the rising of prices (due to the general state of the economy worldwide) and you can easily see why people do it.

Not saying it's right, but it's understandable. The comics industry isn't doing itself any favours at the moment and it's not just the fault of the fans who download, even though there is an obvious issue there in terms of business.

Not a good argument. This happens occasionally, but it's very easy as a discerning reader to avoid series, authors, companies, etc. that you dislike and gravitate toward those that you do enjoy. Exceptions will occur, but acting like a significant amount of purchases end up being disappointments is a gross mischaracterization. If it continues on a regular basis, the buyer is just dumb. After a while, buying bad comics is the buyer's fault, not the company's, since like you said it's a business. Sometimes "bad" sells.

Originally posted by willRules
No, your argument doesn't make sense. How do they know they won't like it until they read it? By author? I have hated Jeph Loeb's recent stuff but he has written some brilliant comics as well. Character? Title? Artist? Same rule applies.

I don't know anyone who buys or downloads a title so they can go "See I'd knew it'd be crap!" They buy it to read it and then they discover if they like it or not.

Like I've already said, I'm not justifying it but some people download a comic to see if it's worth picking up or not. "Fans vote with their dollars" is a stupid statement put out by the major publishers.

If I needed to, I could name 5 authors, maybe 3-4 series, and a couple indie companies that I don't touch. As a rule. And the same with stuff that I would buy without hesitation. I'm nearly always satisfied, or at least don't feel swindled. Tell me, how is that not voting with my dollars?

Originally posted by Digi
Not a good argument. This happens occasionally, but it's very easy as a discerning reader to avoid series, authors, companies, etc. that you dislike and gravitate toward those that you do enjoy. Exceptions will occur, but acting like a significant amount of purchases end up being disappointments is a gross mischaracterization. If it continues on a regular basis, the buyer is just dumb. After a while, buying bad comics is the buyer's fault, not the company's, since like you said it's a business. Sometimes "bad" sells.



If I needed to, I could name 5 authors, maybe 3-4 series, and a couple indie companies that I don't touch. As a rule. And the same with stuff that I would buy without hesitation. I'm nearly always satisfied, or at least don't feel swindled. Tell me, how is that not voting with my dollars?

Obviously a fan shouldn't be continually buying a book they don't like but they have to obtain at least one issue in order to determine whether the book is for them or not. Chances are that's gonna be a first issue, which is one of many reasons why issue no 1s sell so well and why some titles are constantly revamped or retitled. If Marvel bring out a first issue of a new title and I can't tell whether I like it or not, I may vote with my dollars by buying the issue. This is clearly independent of my personal taste. I could love or hate the issue.

It goes without saying that a sustained purchase would be ridiculous if it's not to someones taste. Nonetheless first issues usually sell well before the gradual dip in prices, when people often leave and for a new title starting out, especially for creator owned work, every sale means something.

I think you're right. Sometimes bad does sell. This is certainly not what I had in mind when I voted using my own money. I can understand why people consider downloading.

This is why I think DC are doing very well for releasing previews or backup features to give people a flavour of a title. I suppose at least Marvel have a recap page. However the industry needs to develop or improve on their methods of selling a title rather than just hyping it. This is why review sites like ign are so important for understanding the tone of a title.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
I am 17,with no job.I have never downloaded a comic,ever,and my collection is still massive.


So if you have ever downloaded a comic,just note,you are little more than a black hole, sucking away nutrients that could be used to sustain us real fans,and valuable members of society. You festering piles of dog shit.

I started my collection around 16. Everything was fine and dandy since I had no bills to pay. I got by the allowance I was given which Im guessing is ur case (or rich mommy and daddy). Lets see how ur tune change when u grow up, have kids, a house, cars but more importantly, bills!

I think someone that has no job really has no input as to those that have to choose between bills to pay and a hobby. While there are people that can afford all the bills/kids. that doesnt apply to everyone.

Originally posted by -Pr-
then seriously, how do you afford them?

also, lulz at this "real fans" bs.

Answer the man if u dont mind.

Originally posted by willRules
No, your argument doesn't make sense. How do they know they won't like it until they read it? By author? I have hated Jeph Loeb's recent stuff but he has written some brilliant comics as well. Character? Title? Artist? Same rule applies.

1) I'm referring to people, like Vicious, who literally cannot stand certain authors or whatever. He clearly doesn't like Liefield, at all, so don't go downloading Liefield's stuff.

2) Then you take a risk. When did this "I need to know exactly what anything is, and own it, before I pay for it." shit come from?

You're not "previewing" it, you're not sampling a couple pages or an excerpt from Marvel.Com, you're illegally downloading a comic.

Originally posted by willRules
I don't know anyone who buys or downloads a title so they can go "See I'd knew it'd be crap!" They buy it to read it and then they discover if they like it or not.

That's how it should be. You pay for something to decide if you like it or not, it's not a good argument to say "I might not like this, so I should be able to own it before owning it, in case I dislike it.".

I'll explain why in my reply to Vicious.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
I started my collection around 16. Everything was fine and dandy since I had no bills to pay. I got by the allowance I was given which Im guessing is ur case (or rich mommy and daddy). Lets see how ur tune change when u grow up, have kids, a house, cars but more importantly, bills!

I think someone that has no job really has no input as to those that have to choose between bills to pay and a hobby. While there are people that can afford all the bills/kids. that doesnt apply to everyone.

Here's the fact; if you wanna whine about economy then why the **** are you buying comics in the first place? If money is SO tight that you are whining about buying a shit comic, maybe spend the money on shit you NEED rather than stuff you want in ANY case.

If you have bills to pay, kids a house and cars...and the upkeep of all those is costly, why pay for any comics? You can't afford them so don't buy them.

"That's why I download".

I'm sorry, but "I can't afford it." isn't a good reason to steal. Never has been, never will be. If you are literally going to die of hunger on the street because you have no job and can't get one due to the vicious cycle of homelessness, I'll turn a blind eye if I see you steal an apple.

If you want to steal a LUXURY hobby item simply because you can't afford to pay, then you've got no argument.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

1) I'm referring to people, like Vicious, who literally cannot stand certain authors or whatever. He clearly doesn't like Liefield, at all, so don't go downloading Liefield's stuff.



Liefield is a great example. I hate his art. Even before opening the book I know Ill hate his art. Why? because he sux and to this day his art hasnt evolved. I wont give him a penny. Ill be more than happy to download it and see if I like the story. He could be out of the job tomorrow because of me. I'll sleep like a baby.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Here's the fact; if you wanna whine about economy then why the **** are you buying comics in the first place? If money is SO tight that you are whining about buying a shit comic, maybe spend the money on shit you NEED rather than stuff you want in ANY case.

If you have bills to pay, kids a house and cars...and the upkeep of all those is costly, why pay for any comics? You can't afford them so don't buy them.

"That's why I download".

I'm sorry, but "I can't afford it." isn't a good reason to steal. Never has been, never will be. If you are literally going to die of hunger on the street because you have no job and can't get one due to the vicious cycle of homelessness, I'll turn a blind eye if I see you steal an apple.

If you want to steal a LUXURY hobby item simply because you can't afford to pay, then you've got no argument.



Not sure where this whine shit came from but im not whinning. I got my priorities straight which are family, bills etc. IF I have money to spare and I want to buy a comic, I want the most for my dollar. Which is why Ill buy comic books that I feel are worth it (on ebay that is). Is buying from ebay wrong since the seller is bound to make more money than the store (sometimes)?. Im not the one whinning because I feel that by 7 people downloading (yes, look at the poll, Im not the only one) u feel they are taking from the industry. Unless im missing something, artists/writers get paid by the page/book, not by comission (sorry if they are). If a particular comic doesnt sell well the book gets canceled and they get moved to something else. Unless they are crappy at their craft and in which case, who needs them? Dont knock it because ur moral compass dont allow u to do it. Get off ur freaking high horse. Everybody downloads these days whether its audio, video, software, books. Just because its comic books doesnt make it any more heinous.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri


1) I'm referring to people, like Vicious, who literally cannot stand certain authors or whatever. He clearly doesn't like Liefield, at all, so don't go downloading Liefield's stuff.

2) Then you take a risk. When did this "I need to know exactly what anything is, and own it, before I pay for it." shit come from?

You're not "previewing" it, you're not sampling a couple pages or an excerpt from Marvel.Com, you're illegally downloading a comic.



That's how it should be. You pay for something to decide if you like it or not, it's not a good argument to say "I might not like this, so I should be able to own it before owning it, in case I dislike it.".



I'll explain why in my reply to Vicious.



Here's the fact; if you wanna whine about economy then why the **** are you buying comics in the first place? If money is SO tight that you are whining about buying a shit comic, maybe spend the money on shit you NEED rather than stuff you want in ANY case.

If you have bills to pay, kids a house and cars...and the upkeep of all those is costly, why pay for any comics? You can't afford them so don't buy them.

"That's why I download".

I'm sorry, but "I can't afford it." isn't a good reason to steal. Never has been, never will be. If you are literally going to die of hunger on the street because you have no job and can't get one due to the vicious cycle of homelessness, I'll turn a blind eye if I see you steal an apple.

If you want to steal a LUXURY hobby item simply because you can't afford to pay, then you've got no argument.

-AC

Is there any real difference between downloading a comic and spending time in your local Chapters reading a comic in one of their comfy sofa-chairs? What about borrowing trades from your library?

Originally posted by theICONiac
Is there any real difference between downloading a comic and spending time in your local Chapters reading a comic in one of their comfy sofa-chairs? What about borrowing trades from your library?

Yes.

Wait . . . no.

Originally posted by theICONiac
Is there any real difference between downloading a comic and spending time in your local Chapters reading a comic in one of their comfy sofa-chairs? What about borrowing trades from your library?
Chapters is Canadian and downloading isn't.

Originally posted by theICONiac
Is there any real difference between downloading a comic and spending time in your local Chapters reading a comic in one of their comfy sofa-chairs? What about borrowing trades from your library?

THANK YOU icon.

Jesus H Christ! Anyone can walk into ANY Barnes and Noble or Borders and pick up the comic books from the comic bin read the bloody thing and just leave. There is no crime...just like you can listen to music on a radio for free.

I swear...all these illegal technical internet mumbo jumbo is quite silly at times. Makes you wonder who really lives in fear?

As for the topic.

I obtain my comics from the following:

Comic book shops, Subscriptions (which is rare nowadays), Conventions, or back in my Jr. High days...borrow them or trade them with other comic book nerds.

I'd rather DL everything I want to read than pay for any of it.

Originally posted by WhoopeeDee
THANK YOU icon.

Jesus H Christ! Anyone can walk into ANY Barnes and Noble or Borders and pick up the comic books from the comic bin read the bloody thing and just leave. There is no crime...just like you can listen to music on a radio for free.

I swear...all these illegal technical internet mumbo jumbo is quite silly at times. Makes you wonder who really lives in fear?

As for the topic.

I obtain my comics from the following:

Comic book shops, Subscriptions (which is rare nowadays), Conventions, or back in my Jr. High days...borrow them or trade the with other comic book nerds.

Yeah, there's the difference though. You say there's no difference but you clearly outline one as not being a crime, while the other clearly is. That's a pretty big difference.

Just because it's not illegal to do the browsing thing, doesn't mean it's any less cheap and shifty. My point is that not paying for shit you want is retarded. Libraries are consentual, the manufacturers agree to have them there and usually for a set fee.

It's not about living in fear. The police have proven that illegal downloading is so hard to trace that you may as well not live in fear. My issue is with, ya know, not doing it for personal reasons because I like paying for my comics and paying the people who created them.

Congrats on keeping up your Marciano-esque streak for being able to miss a points with more raw efficiency than Usain Bolt.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Liefield is a great example. I hate his art. Even before opening the book I know Ill hate his art. Why? because he sux and to this day his art hasnt evolved. I wont give him a penny. Ill be more than happy to download it and see if I like the story. He could be out of the job tomorrow because of me. I'll sleep like a baby.

Oh, so many ways for me to tear this point to shreds.

1) You seem to cockily admit your thievery as if it's cool. This doesn't bolster your point, it re-enforces mine.

2) You know you won't like him so you shouldn't be owning his stuff without paying.

3) You say you download it because you might like the story, BUT, you've already decided you won't give him a penny and you would happily contribute to him being out of a job.

So, summation; like Liefield's stories or not, you are enthusiastically trying to contribute to a lack of payment for the man's work. It has nothing to do with being able to afford it or a recession, and everything to do with you being rather disgusting, bitter and scummy. To wish someone out of a job, who many people like, because YOU don't? That's just beyond mental retardation. That's conscious bastardry.

I hope you genuinely get fired soon, to balance the karma.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Not sure where this whine shit came from but im not whinning. I got my priorities straight which are family, bills etc. IF I have money to spare and I want to buy a comic, I want the most for my dollar. Which is why Ill buy comic books that I feel are worth it (on ebay that is). Is buying from ebay wrong since the seller is bound to make more money than the store (sometimes)?. Im not the one whinning because I feel that by 7 people downloading (yes, look at the poll, Im not the only one) u feel they are taking from the industry. Unless im missing something, artists/writers get paid by the page/book, not by comission (sorry if they are). If a particular comic doesnt sell well the book gets canceled and they get moved to something else. Unless they are crappy at their craft and in which case, who needs them? Dont knock it because ur moral compass dont allow u to do it. Get off ur freaking high horse. Everybody downloads these days whether its audio, video, software, books. Just because its comic books doesnt make it any more heinous.

First off, don't EVER use the "Everyone does it" card and expect for ME to take you seriously. Did your parents ever tell you the wise advice of; "If your friend jumps off a bridge, do you do it?" or not?

As for eBay, if it were illegal it wouldn't be thriving, would it?

"Copyrights allow people like painters, musicians, writers, and software developers to have some control over how their work is used or shared with others.

Trademarks allow people like clothing and product designers to protect their product's reputation. After all, their products have a good reputation because of all the money and effort these people invested in them.

Patents help people protect their new technological innovations. The person who comes up with the technology for the world's first time travel machine will certainly want to get some credit for it!".

eBay's policy is very simple:

Don't sell fakes, bootlegs or other such stuff.

Don't use pictures taken from a manufacturer or source, use your own etc.

There's a whole section dedicated to explaining how protecting intellectual property works on that site.

Besides, even on a simpler level if you look at a one for one trade; someone buys a comic from a store, eBay sells it. That's not him sharing the comic, it's him giving it up and another single person owning it.

Half the time new comics are sold for store price on there ANYWAY, and the people doing that kind of selling are established sellers like MyComicShop. People and groups who buy IN bulk from the source, like any store.

Now, back issues are different, as they go for a variant of price. However, Marvel and just about any other comic book manufacturer or writer knows this and accepts it. Besides, it has nothing to do with them as time passes.

They earned royalties when the comics were released. In time, as they stopped being pressed, more people still wanted to own them. So, since they were no longer in production, it went to trading/buying/selling. This is not illegal, this is just adaptation for something that literally is never gonna come out again.

Music is different because CDs RAAARELY go out of print. So there's no excuse, and comic companies are making sure to bolster their employees worth in the NOW because of this.

Let me explain; nobody knew, when the first Action Comics #1 hit the shelves for not even a dollar, that there would eventually be only 12 known copies left on the planet in any condition that would be worth anything. Nor that said worth would be at 500 grand and sometimes a million, nor that they'd see NO return on this.

Now, the comics we buy will NEVER be as valuable as those older ones.

1) They're printed in MUCH higher number, so more people will end up with a copy.

2) They do constant reprints, sometimes before the comics even sell out. You've got all kinds of variant covers now.

Comics will always be valued retrospectively, but due to the way they're made, it at least buffers the sell-on loss that writers and the companies suffer.

It's not comparable to illegal downloading because you dislike a writer or because you have some retarded "I can't afford it." excuse.

I can't afford a Porsche; you won't see me stealing one from the dealership.

Let's break it down; all you arrogant downloaders tell me something.

If you got taken to court, just tell me how confident you'd be that you'd get off with half the arguments you present on the internet?

We both know you'd be hearing the clanging of jailbars before the gavel even hit the wood.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri


1) I'm referring to people, like Vicious, who literally cannot stand certain authors or whatever. He clearly doesn't like Liefield, at all, so don't go downloading Liefield's stuff.

2) Then you take a risk. When did this "I need to know exactly what anything is, and own it, before I pay for it." shit come from?

You're not "previewing" it, you're not sampling a couple pages or an excerpt from Marvel.Com, you're illegally downloading a comic.



That's how it should be. You pay for something to decide if you like it or not, it's not a good argument to say "I might not like this, so I should be able to own it before owning it, in case I dislike it.".


Take the risk? No. I'm a paying customer who wants to make sure I get my moneys worth. I think Marvel and DC needs to improve on their sampling, such as Marvel.com Digital comics. They have improved but there's still a long way to go. They cater to us, not the other way round.

I would go on, but I think Darth Vicious is handling his own points just fine.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Answer the man if u dont mind.

Originally posted by thebeast
I'd rather DL everything I want to read than pay for any of it.
Thanks for ur honesty kind sir.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So, summation; like Liefield's stories or not, you are enthusiastically trying to contribute to a lack of payment for the man's work. It has nothing to do with being able to afford it or a recession, and everything to do with you being rather disgusting, bitter and scummy. To wish someone out of a job, who many people like, because YOU don't? That's just beyond mental retardation. That's conscious bastardry.

-AC

Fail! Last comic I read from Liefield was Onslaught return. Liefield was just the ARTIST. The storyline was mainly Loebs. Most of the small amount of stuff I got from Liefield hes just the "artist" (if u call what he does art)

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

I hope you genuinely get fired soon, to balance the karma.
-AC

There are 2 things that I know for a fact.
1- Im so valuable for the company I work for that I wont be let go anytime soon. For some unexplained reason I could be let go bu thats like saying Superman will be a Marvel comic next month.
2- I'll be using the skills Ive gathered in that company to get some FREE comic books tomorrow afternoon.

I hope that Karma fellow pass by ur place and burn it to the ground. Wont lose any sleep if u and ur hard paid collection are in it while its burning.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
First off, don't EVER use the "Everyone does it" card and expect for ME to take you seriously. Did your parents ever tell you the wise advice of; "If your friend jumps off a bridge, do you do it?" or not?

-AC
Im sure u have done it also. U wont admit to it here of course.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

As for eBay, if it were illegal it wouldn't be thriving, would it?....
-AC

Didnt care for none of that.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If you got taken to court, just tell me how confident you'd be that you'd get off with half the arguments you present on the internet?

We both know you'd be hearing the clanging of jailbars before the gavel even hit the wood.

-AC

Please provide a link with that awesome news were a person got sent to jail for downloading comic books? Take ur time too.

At the most people get fined for DL music/video. Unless u own/run a bit tottent site(Pirate Bay) and live in China.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah, there's the difference though. You say there's no difference but you clearly outline one as not being a crime, while the other clearly is. That's a pretty big difference.

Just because it's not illegal to do the browsing thing, doesn't mean it's any less cheap and shifty. My point is that not paying for shit you want is retarded. Libraries are consentual, the manufacturers agree to have them there and usually for a set fee.

It's not about living in fear. The police have proven that illegal downloading is so hard to trace that you may as well not live in fear. My issue is with, ya know, not doing it for personal reasons because I like paying for my comics and paying the people who created them.

Congrats on keeping up your Marciano-esque streak for being able to miss a points with more raw efficiency than Usain Bolt.



Oh, so many ways for me to tear this point to shreds.

1) You seem to cockily admit your thievery as if it's cool. This doesn't bolster your point, it re-enforces mine.

2) You know you won't like him so you shouldn't be owning his stuff without paying.

3) You say you download it because you might like the story, BUT, you've already decided you won't give him a penny and you would happily contribute to him being out of a job.

So, summation; like Liefield's stories or not, you are enthusiastically trying to contribute to a lack of payment for the man's work. It has nothing to do with being able to afford it or a recession, and everything to do with you being rather disgusting, bitter and scummy. To wish someone out of a job, who many people like, because YOU don't? That's just beyond mental retardation. That's conscious bastardry.

I hope you genuinely get fired soon, to balance the karma.



First off, don't EVER use the "Everyone does it" card and expect for ME to take you seriously. Did your parents ever tell you the wise advice of; "If your friend jumps off a bridge, do you do it?" or not?

As for eBay, if it were illegal it wouldn't be thriving, would it?

"Copyrights allow people like painters, musicians, writers, and software developers to have some control over how their work is used or shared with others.

Trademarks allow people like clothing and product designers to protect their product's reputation. After all, their products have a good reputation because of all the money and effort these people invested in them.

Patents help people protect their new technological innovations. The person who comes up with the technology for the world's first time travel machine will certainly want to get some credit for it!".

eBay's policy is very simple:

Don't sell fakes, bootlegs or other such stuff.

Don't use pictures taken from a manufacturer or source, use your own etc.

There's a whole section dedicated to explaining how protecting intellectual property works on that site.

Besides, even on a simpler level if you look at a one for one trade; someone buys a comic from a store, eBay sells it. That's not him sharing the comic, it's him giving it up and another single person owning it.

Half the time new comics are sold for store price on there ANYWAY, and the people doing that kind of selling are established sellers like MyComicShop. People and groups who buy IN bulk from the source, like any store.

Now, back issues are different, as they go for a variant of price. However, Marvel and just about any other comic book manufacturer or writer knows this and accepts it. Besides, it has nothing to do with them as time passes.

They earned royalties when the comics were released. In time, as they stopped being pressed, more people still wanted to own them. So, since they were no longer in production, it went to trading/buying/selling. This is not illegal, this is just adaptation for something that literally is never gonna come out again.

Music is different because CDs RAAARELY go out of print. So there's no excuse, and comic companies are making sure to bolster their employees worth in the NOW because of this.

Let me explain; nobody knew, when the first Action Comics #1 hit the shelves for not even a dollar, that there would eventually be only 12 known copies left on the planet in any condition that would be worth anything. Nor that said worth would be at 500 grand and sometimes a million, nor that they'd see NO return on this.

Now, the comics we buy will NEVER be as valuable as those older ones.

1) They're printed in MUCH higher number, so more people will end up with a copy.

2) They do constant reprints, sometimes before the comics even sell out. You've got all kinds of variant covers now.

Comics will always be valued retrospectively, but due to the way they're made, it at least buffers the sell-on loss that writers and the companies suffer.

It's not comparable to illegal downloading because you dislike a writer or because you have some retarded "I can't afford it." excuse.

I can't afford a Porsche; you won't see me stealing one from the dealership.

Let's break it down; all you arrogant downloaders tell me something.

If you got taken to court, just tell me how confident you'd be that you'd get off with half the arguments you present on the internet?

We both know you'd be hearing the clanging of jailbars before the gavel even hit the wood.

-AC yawn

Originally posted by willRules
I Read comics over someones shoulder.





I usually buy trades or hardcovers for most things these days, exceptions being Spidey, sometimes Batman and up until now, Cap.

Up until Cap Reborn, I bought single issues. However I think I'm gonna start getting the trades for Cap from now on.

I sometimes buy the single issues for a major event but I prefer the trades (I'm waiting for the Blackest Night trade which is killing me, after reading the first issue)

I have a few random things in single issues, some one shots, some Green Lantern. I own Millar's run of Ultimates in single issue, but I'm really tempted to buy the Omnibus on Amazon cos it looks gorgeous Are you going to find out what happens in BN. Will be hard to avoid it.


Anyway just because you download doesn't make you not a true fan, I'm a fan of that comic not the creator or whatever. I care about myself and my money not the industry, I'm not bothered that my money doesn't go to them, I don't give a shit if the price gets jacked up, I don't have to worry about it do I.

I only Download comics now..heres one reason of many......i spent my hard earned money on countdown...then into Death Of The New Gods.....then DC bends over for Morrison...i gave it a shot..after 4 issues of the crappiest writing ever..there was an interview released...it was Dido and Morrison laughing about how Countdown and DOTNG was osmething we cant understand.....and something to the effect that..why cant we just read a new story....well i spent 52 issues and another 8 on a story that was disregarded....and to gloat about it in an interview...well after i spent my money collecting the rest of final crisis and its tie ins(i thought maybe there was something to be redeemed thru this mess)...it was a absolute failure and a slap in the face to me as a reader/buyer of said comics...well i dont pay for any DC comics these days....i download them....and i dont care for an industry that insults me...i have a huge collection of comics that i can share with my kids and others..from a time when comics were good.

Originally posted by thebeast

Anyway just because you download doesn't make you not a true fan, I'm a fan of that comic not the creator or whatever. I care about myself and my money not the industry, I'm not bothered that my money doesn't go to them, I don't give a shit if the price gets jacked up, I don't have to worry about it do I.

But the thing is if you like the story and art thats being drawn thats currently happening in that comic series then friggan buy the actual comic and help get the money back to the writer, artist.

Originally posted by -Pr-
then seriously, how do you afford them?

also, lulz at this "real fans" bs.

your inability to detect sarcasm is lulz.

Originally posted by thebeast
Are you going to find out what happens in BN. Will be hard to avoid it.

I'm sure I'll find out beforehand. Even if I'm careful, my temptation will probably get the better of me But I bought the Sinestro corps war in single issues. It rocked, but upon reflection, I reckon I could have easily waited for the trades, which I think look so much nicer and sit so much better on my shelf. These days I gravitate towards the trades.

Originally posted by starlock
I only Download comics now..heres one reason of many......i spent my hard earned money on countdown...then into Death Of The New Gods.....then DC bends over for Morrison...i gave it a shot..after 4 issues of the crappiest writing ever..there was an interview released...it was Dido and Morrison laughing about how Countdown and DOTNG was osmething we cant understand.....and something to the effect that..why cant we just read a new story....well i spent 52 issues and another 8 on a story that was disregarded....and to gloat about it in an interview...well after i spent my money collecting the rest of final crisis and its tie ins(i thought maybe there was something to be redeemed thru this mess)...it was a absolute failure and a slap in the face to me as a reader/buyer of said comics...well i dont pay for any DC comics these days....i download them....and i dont care for an industry that insults me...i have a huge collection of comics that i can share with my kids and others..from a time when comics were good.

Exactly. You are a good example of my point earlier. You don't know what to expect until you purchase the issue. If someone said you were voting with your dollars to justify buying what you didn't enjoy, you'd be pretty upset. Now I think Countdown is a sustained purchase so really, you should have dropped out, you did vote with your dollars there. However FC was a major event. Chances are it altered some of your regular titles. DC expects you to pick it up. It's hyped, as an event, you bought it and you "voted with your dollars" for something you didn't really want to vote for upon hindsight.


Originally posted by Kazenji
But the thing is if you like the story and art thats being drawn thats currently happening in that comic series then friggan buy the actual comic and help get the money back to the writer, artist.

Agreed.

This is why the industry needs to put a better job into advertising it's smaller titles through previews. A good example was the first few pages of X-men: First Class. When it was first released, preview pages were everywhere, there was a real push for it. I think that does a better job to hook someone onto a title because it gives them a real sense of flavour for the title and doesn't give them as much incentive to download in order to see what the stories are like. I wish that had been done for Cornell's Cap Britain, the title might have lasted longer.

Plus the rising costs don't help any of this.

Originally posted by Kazenji
But the thing is if you like the story and art thats being drawn thats currently happening in that comic series then friggan buy the actual comic and help get the money back to the writer, artist.

No. I would rather me have the money then them. Why would I WANT to give my money away to them when I could easily get them for free.

I care about what benefits me not them. I don't really give a shit about the writer and artist.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri




I did say "...and/OR buy them legit.". Read properly. This means that the words "and" and "or" are both applicable. So let's use "or":

"I go to the store OR buy them legit.". Clearly meaning that you can get them legit without getting them from a store.

If you're gonna pursue this vendetta against me, at least make it credible by...ya know...not being wrong.



I am mistaken.



I have no vendetta against you, nor do I really care anything about you. I was responding to a thread.





-BH

Originally posted by thebeast
No. I would rather me have the money then them. Why would I WANT to give my money away to them when I could easily get them for free.

I care about what benefits me not them. I don't really give a shit about the writer and artist.
now that is where the problem is

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
I hope that Karma fellow pass by ur place and burn it to the ground. Wont lose any sleep if u and ur hard paid collection are in it while its burning.

Really? Over an internet discussion?

People amaze me sometimes.

Originally posted by willRules
Obviously a fan shouldn't be continually buying a book they don't like but they have to obtain at least one issue in order to determine whether the book is for them or not. Chances are that's gonna be a first issue, which is one of many reasons why issue no 1s sell so well and why some titles are constantly revamped or retitled. If Marvel bring out a first issue of a new title and I can't tell whether I like it or not, I may vote with my dollars by buying the issue. This is clearly independent of my personal taste. I could love or hate the issue.

It goes without saying that a sustained purchase would be ridiculous if it's not to someones taste. Nonetheless first issues usually sell well before the gradual dip in prices, when people often leave and for a new title starting out, especially for creator owned work, every sale means something.

I think you're right. Sometimes bad does sell. This is certainly not what I had in mind when I voted using my own money. I can understand why people consider downloading.

This is why I think DC are doing very well for releasing previews or backup features to give people a flavour of a title. I suppose at least Marvel have a recap page. However the industry needs to develop or improve on their methods of selling a title rather than just hyping it. This is why review sites like ign are so important for understanding the tone of a title.

I still fail to see how you understand downloaders because of first-issue sales, which are a miniscule drop in the bucket compared to any comic enthusiasts collection. So what if you buy a bad issue now and then? Shrug and move on. Don't resort to illegal downloads, or sympathize with those who do.

And "bad selling" is because a lot of people happen to like what you or I might consider to be bad. It doesn't mean we should be downloading bad authors or series because we don't enjoy it.

But yes, review sites are great, as is just being a conscious consumer. Between those things, there's no reason to be angry at an industry, or indeed angry at anyone but yourself.

Originally posted by jalek moye
now that is where the problem is



A thankful minority still, however. The comic industry is thriving atm.

And he's just a sock, so we can't really listen to what he says. By his tone, my guess is that he was just looking for shock value.

Originally posted by Digi

And he's just a sock, so we can't really listen to what he says. By his tone, my guess is that he was just looking for shock value.

Out of curiosity, how do you mods route out the socks? Consistently similiar tonal-quality from post to post? THe exact same IP address/ISP combo something?

Or is it some 'Top-Secret' thingie you can't say?

.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Really? Over an internet discussion?

People amaze me sometimes.

For every action....

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri


I hope you genuinely get fired soon, to balance the karma.


-AC

There's a reaction.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious


I hope that Karma fellow pass by ur place and burn it to the ground. Wont lose any sleep if u and ur hard paid collection are in it while its burning.

Originally posted by theICONiac
Out of curiosity, how do you mods route out the socks? Consistently similiar tonal-quality from post to post? THe exact same IP address/ISP combo something?

Or is it some 'Top-Secret' thingie you can't say?

Top Secret. You've just increased your chance to be banned by about 50% merely from asking about it.



...PM if you're interested. It's nothing secret or special, but I'd rather not spam the thread any more.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
For every action....



There's a reaction.

Not that it matters, nor am I defending his choice of words, but hoping someone gets fired and hoping someone gets burned down in a fire are two different levels of insults.

Either way keep it civil the two of you. No need to insult to prove a point, no matter how much you disagree.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Fail! Last comic I read from Liefield was Onslaught return. Liefield was just the ARTIST. The storyline was mainly Loebs. Most of the small amount of stuff I got from Liefield hes just the "artist" (if u call what he does art)

You clearly have a vendetta against the man whereby you'd download his stuff even if you liked it.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
There are 2 things that I know for a fact.
1- Im so valuable for the company I work for that I wont be let go anytime soon. For some unexplained reason I could be let go bu thats like saying Superman will be a Marvel comic next month.
2- I'll be using the skills Ive gathered in that company to get some FREE comic books tomorrow afternoon.

Well, you have reasonably rotten outlooks, so it makes sense that you'd cooly act like stealing is good. It's one of the reasons I hope you get fired. Regardless of how well you do at your job.

By the way, do your job for free. Seriously. Who are you to ask to be PAID for your work? Craziness.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
I hope that Karma fellow pass by ur place and burn it to the ground. Wont lose any sleep if u and ur hard paid collection are in it while its burning.

How is me hoping you lose your job, because you hope Liefield loses his, proportionate to you hoping my house burns down and I lose my possession?

You idiot.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Im sure u have done it also. U wont admit to it here of course.

I've factually never downloaded a comic in my life. Fact.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Please provide a link with that awesome news were a person got sent to jail for downloading comic books? Take ur time too.

At the most people get fined for DL music/video. Unless u own/run a bit tottent site(Pirate Bay) and live in China.

I never said they did, I asked downloaders if they think their arguments would hold up in court.

As Digi and I are proving, there's literally a wafer thin layer of any decent arguments to be made for illegal downloading.

It essentially boils down to "I can't afford it." which defeats itself, or "I wanna know what it's like before I buy it.". The latter would be fair enough to understand (Though I'd still disagree), but when you're a seasoned reader you know what you're going to like or dislike, usually.

Also, it's the same with food, music or anything. If everyone could go around taking anything they wanted, things might as well not even BE for sale.

-AC

Originally posted by Martian_mind
your inability to detect sarcasm is lulz.

in fairness, it didn't look like sarcasm.

Originally posted by -Pr-
in fairness, it didn't look like sarcasm.


Maybe if you're drunk and irish.


or just irish.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Maybe if you're drunk and irish.


or just irish.

ok... ermm

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Snatch and run
lol, same here.

Mostly downloads nowadays since there are hardly any comic shops over here. Guess im not a true fan.....LMAO at such nonsense.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You clearly have a vendetta against the man whereby you'd download his stuff even if you liked it.



I do not. I just hate his art. I got his last work because of Onslaught which is a character I like.



Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Well, you have reasonably rotten outlooks, so it makes sense that you'd cooly act like stealing is good. It's one of the reasons I hope you get fired. Regardless of how well you do at your job.

By the way, do your job for free. Seriously. Who are you to ask to be PAID for your work? Craziness.


Please, stop ur whinning. There have been no reports that downloaders affect the comic book industry like downloading cds. They get paid before the book gets reaches the store. If it gets cancelled, they give them another book to work on.

Im so good at my job that I mostly get paid just to show up.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

How is me hoping you lose your job, because you hope Liefield loses his, proportionate to you hoping my house burns down and I lose my possession?

You idiot.


Liefield has also worked as a writer. He could do that as long as he doesnt "draw". Is not proportionate, Didnt say it was. U wishing something bad happens to me, I feel the same. In this world it doesnt have to make sense. People have been killed for far less in this world. U should do us both a favor and start a bonfire in ur bed before u go to sleep.

As for juvenile insult. It's easy for a ***** ass like urself to insult somebody hiding behind the confort of a computer.



Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I've factually never downloaded a comic in my life. Fact.



I meant in general (movies, music etc). U know u have. Its ok to admit it.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

As Digi and I are proving, there's literally a wafer thin layer of any decent arguments to be made for illegal downloading.

Was that a calling out the mod for help? Even he admitted to downloading media at one point or another:
Originally posted by Digi


That said, I've done some spot research for tourneys through such means. An unfortunate necessity of the insane amount of information that one must know on such short notice in order to even compete. /B]

U dont see me calling out the name sof those that also download and by the looks of the poll, we are the majority.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It essentially boils down to "I can't afford it." which defeats itself, or "I wanna know what it's like before I buy it.". The latter would be fair enough to understand (Though I'd still disagree), but when you're a seasoned reader you know what you're going to like or dislike, usually.



If I cant afford something like comics, movies or music and can get them for free. I will

I do buy comics after Ive read them and liked them.

All the seasoned readors in the world couldnt have predicted that "Countdown", "Final Crisis" etc. would turned out to be such pieces of crap.


By the way, Today it's Wednesday. Free comic book day!

Free comic day ??

has'nt that already been and gone.

facepalm

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
I do not. I just hate his art. I got his last work because of Onslaught which is a character I like.

Then stop saying stupid comments like "I'd never give him a penny".

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Please, stop ur whinning. There have been no reports that downloaders affect the comic book industry like downloading cds. They get paid before the book gets reaches the store. If it gets cancelled, they give them another book to work on.

Im so good at my job that I mostly get paid just to show up.

What would you do if they said to you "No more getting paid, just do it for free."?

Would you continue working or would you say "Hahahahhahaa bye."?

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Liefield has also worked as a writer. He could do that as long as he doesnt "draw". Is not proportionate, Didnt say it was. U wishing something bad happens to me, I feel the same. In this world it doesnt have to make sense. People have been killed for far less in this world. U should do us both a favor and start a bonfire in ur bed before u go to sleep.

As for juvenile insult. It's easy for a ***** ass like urself to insult somebody hiding behind the confort of a computer.

That computer line works both ways. It's easy to claim that other people are being tough behind the computer, but it's easy to call people out behind a computer too. I'm every bit the person I am online, in person.

Secondly, if it's not proportionate, then why say it? You say "Stop whining (One N)" and yet, you actually wish death upon me because I'm tanning your behind. Hmm.

Real mature way for a man with wife and kids to be acting.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
I meant in general (movies, music etc). U know u have. Its ok to admit it.

No, I factually have not. Of course, this is where you disagree with factual truth and then say that I have. It's a circular nonsense argument. I can't prove I haven't, you can't prove I have.

Fact, though; I haven't.

I don't download movies, I prefer watching them on DVD or going to the cinema. Same with music. You don't own a four digit CD collection by downloading.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Was that a calling out the mod for help? Even he admitted to downloading media at one point or another:

U dont see me calling out the name sof those that also download and by the looks of the poll, we are the majority.

1) No, it wasn't. It was me telling you that we're both saying the same thing in different words. There's no point in me replying to WillRules if I'm just going to say the same thing.

I've been saying it before Digi got involved. Anyone who knows my name on this forum knows that I need no help. Especially not with the likes of you.

2) He admitted to downloading things that are rare. I disagree, but it's not what YOU do. It's nowhere near on par with what you do.

3) Majority means shit.

The majority of voting America voted for George Bush. You gonna argue that they made the right choice because there was more of them?

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
If I cant afford something like comics, movies or music and can get them for free. I will

Stealing isn't getting something for free, it's...stealing.

If someone is giving you free samples; there's no price.

If you steal something; there is a price, you're just ignoring it.

There's a difference between free and stealing. Nobody is going to offer to pay for something being given to them, but decent people pay for shit with a price.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
I do buy comics after Ive read them and liked them.

Just because the internet has made this possible, doesn't make it right.

I'm not AGAINST the idea of trying before you buy, but legally. iTunes has previews of the songs so you can hear them before you buy them for example.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
All the seasoned readors in the world couldnt have predicted that "Countdown", "Final Crisis" etc. would turned out to be such pieces of crap.

I'm not saying there are no exceptions, but that's life. Me? There are EXTREMELY rare exceptions. Most of the comics I buy, I like. Most of what I try out, I like.

You seem to dislike a Hell of a lot of comics if you're resorting to downloading. That, or you're not a seasoned reader. If you honestly have to try things before you buy them no matter what, then you either have no clue what you're into, or you are lying to me about your argument for downloading.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
By the way, Today it's Wednesday. Free comic book day!

Yeah, free comic book day legally. In stores. Do you honestly like to make shit arguments or is it by accident?

-AC

Forgot to edit this in:

To a degree, I DO actually agree about Liefield. Not back in the day, because his art seemed to fit the times. Now, though, it seems as though everyone is sucking their cheeks in; I call it the L.F.C. The Liefield Face Crator. It's disastrous, besides the odd issue he has where he brings his A-game.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Then stop saying stupid comments like "I'd never give him a penny".

-AC
I havent bought anything drawn by Liefield since the 90's.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
What would you do if they said to you "No more getting paid, just do it for free."?

Would you continue working or would you say "Hahahahhahaa bye."?

-AC

Whos asking the comic book artist/writers to work for free? Nobody. They still get paid regardless how many people download.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That computer line works both ways. It's easy to claim that other people are being tough behind the computer, but it's easy to call people out behind a computer too. I'm every bit the person I am online, in person.

-AC

People that know me know for a fact that I dont call people out. I walk to them and either solve the issue by talking or simply beat their asses. In ur case I would ask questions after.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Secondly, if it's not proportionate, then why say it? You say "Stop whining (One N)" and yet, you actually wish death upon me because I'm tanning your behind. Hmm.
-AC

This aint no stupid report were I wash my spelling. Who gives a fk about spelling on a board? Oh yeah, u. I guess im not a true fan of message boards either.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Real mature way for a man with wife and kids to be acting.

-AC
I guess because someone has a wife and kids that means we supposed to be punks like u? Hell no. If I have a problem with someone, I'll bring them home, drive back and settle it.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

No, I factually have not. Of course, this is where you disagree with factual truth and then say that I have. It's a circular nonsense argument. I can't prove I haven't, you can't prove I have.

Fact, though; I haven't.

I don't download movies, I prefer watching them on DVD or going to the cinema. Same with music. You don't own a four digit CD collection by downloading.
-AC
Not that u'll admit it anyways.
Do GigaBytes count?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I've been saying it before Digi got involved. Anyone who knows my name on this forum knows that I need no help. Especially not with the likes of you.

-AC
Why bring up the mods name in the first place? The "likes" of me? Pray tell what u mean by that wise and straight arrow sir.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
2) He admitted to downloading things that are rare. I disagree, but it's not what YOU do. It's nowhere near on par with what you do.

3) Majority means shit.

The majority of voting America voted for George Bush. You gonna argue that they made the right choice because there was more of them?

-AC
-I download comics, he doesnt. Big deal.
-Majority means that most people dont share ur "im a tru fan because I dont download comics".
-I aint going there. We aint talking politics.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You seem to dislike a Hell of a lot of comics if you're resorting to downloading. That, or you're not a seasoned reader. If you honestly have to try things before you buy them no matter what, then you either have no clue what you're into, or you are lying to me about your argument for downloading.

-AC
Thats a dumbass statement. If I download them its because I like them.


Bottom line. I download and buy them if I like them (eventually). Some download because they are dissappointed with how they have spent only to be given back mediocre books. Some download because its free.

There's nothing more to say on the subject. Now if u wish to continue ur personal attack on me, I'll be happy to oblige. Just be glad that ur protected behind that screen.


Free comic book day continues!

Take a chill friends. I am sure the Mods will post again

I've have bought many many comics over a thirty year period

I download em for the scans, because I post on numerous boards

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
I havent bought anything drawn by Liefield since the 90's.

Two-part question:

1) You HAVE bought stuff from him, correct?

2) If he did something you liked, you'd buy it, right?

If the answer to either or both questions is "Yes", then saying something like "I'd never give him a penny." is null and void. Why? Because yes, you have and/or yes, you would.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Whos asking the comic book artist/writers to work for free? Nobody. They still get paid regardless how many people download.

It depends on the company. Some comic book artists and writers get paid royalties.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
People that know me know for a fact that I dont call people out. I walk to them and either solve the issue by talking or simply beat their asses. In ur case I would ask questions after.

...and thus I lured you smack into doing what you claimed I was doing; making threats over the net, from behind a computer.

Funny guy, not too bright though.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
This aint no stupid report were I wash my spelling. Who gives a fk about spelling on a board? Oh yeah, u. I guess im not a true fan of message boards either.

It's a text-based discussion board. If you haven't got a care for articulation, grammar or presentation of the way you represent yourself, then maybe consider posting by audio...

Spelling and grammar doesn't stop being applicable outside of work or school. If you stopped using maths outside of class, where would you be in life?

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
I guess because someone has a wife and kids that means we supposed to be punks like u? Hell no. If I have a problem with someone, I'll bring them home, drive back and settle it.

What? I'm just saying that it's not the best attitude for someone with a kid to have. Generally when you have a child, you stop acting like one.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Not that u'll admit it anyways.
Do GigaBytes count?

I don't have to admit what I've never done. You are factually wrong. You have no counter argument, it's your word against mine...regarding me. I win, you lose.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Why bring up the mods name in the first place? The "likes" of me? Pray tell what u mean by that wise and straight arrow sir.

Because he shared the same opinion and I referred to him by name. What's the issue here? Are you running out of steam?

Idiots. What did you think I meant? Now I don't know if you're a stupid man or if you're just acting stupid, but currently you are being an idiot. I do not mean that as an insult, I mean it by the impression you genuinely give me.


Originally posted by Darth Vicious
-I download comics, he doesnt. Big deal.
-Majority means that most people dont share ur "im a tru fan because I dont download comics".
-I aint going there. We aint talking politics.

We don't need to be talking politics, it's the principle of the example;

Majority doesn't make something right. They weren't right for voting Bush just because there were more of them, just like downloaders are not "right" because there are more.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Thats a dumbass statement. If I download them its because I like them.

How does that work? You download to find out if you like comics, according to you. You say you buy them IF you like them, which one can assume is the conclusion drawn AFTER you download them...right?

Download > Decide if you like it > Buy/Don't buy. Right?

Then why would you suggest it's:

Like > Download? Unless...you download...anyway. Unless...you were lying about using it as a method of previewing.

Ooh, sort of slipped up there, didn't you? As evidenced here:

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
I download and buy them if I like them (eventually).

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
If I download them its because I like them.

Hmm. So, you download BECAUSE you like them, but you also download them to find out if you like them.

Makes perfect sense* (See end of post).

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
There's nothing more to say on the subject. Now if u wish to continue ur personal attack on me, I'll be happy to oblige. Just be glad that ur protected behind that screen.

It's not a personal attack, firstly.

Secondly:

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
It's easy for a ***** ass like urself to insult somebody hiding behind the confort of a computer.

Really, I'd give up. Personally. If I had just been torn to shreds by my own hypocrisy, to THAT degree, I'd just walk away.

-AC

*None whatsoever.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri


Two-part question:

1) You HAVE bought stuff from him, correct?

2) If he did something you liked, you'd buy it, right?

If the answer to either or both questions is "Yes", then saying something like "I'd never give him a penny." is null and void. Why? Because yes, you have and/or yes, you would.



1)- Back in the 90's. New Mutants, Heroes Reborn. I didn't learn about the wondeful world of downloading comics well after 2002. Even though they started well before that (I believe).

2) No. I mean, never say never but if his style hasn't improve in all this time, I doubt it ever will.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It depends on the company. Some comic book artists and writers get paid royalties.


Like who? Most of the stuff I get it's Marvel and DC. Stuff that I doubt sales will be affected by downloaders (X-men, Green Lantern).

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
...and thus I lured you smack into doing what you claimed I was doing; making threats over the net, from behind a computer.




Perhaps. All I know is I can back it up. Maybe one day, however unlikely, we'll run into each other.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

It's a text-based discussion board. If you haven't got a care for articulation, grammar or presentation of the way you represent yourself, then maybe consider posting by audio...

Spelling and grammar doesn't stop being applicable outside of work or school. If you stopped using maths outside of class, where would you be in life?


While I do get what u mean, sometimes I dont care. If I spelled something wrong or forgot punctuations, fk it. Afterall, I'm just talking to u. U aint that big on my list for me to correct grammar mistakes.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
What? I'm just saying that it's not the best attitude for someone with a kid to have. Generally when you have a child, you stop acting like one.



Which is why avoid trouble. When it cant be avoided, Im not worried because I know I can handle myself. So according to u, If u have a kid and someone either insult u or lets say punches u, Do u walk away? It wont surprise me if u say yes.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I don't have to admit what I've never done. You are factually wrong. You have no counter argument, it's your word against mine...regarding me. I win, you lose.




True. It would make u a hypocrite if u downloaded other media and not comic. So yes, I understand why would u say no even if u did.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Because he shared the same opinion and I referred to him by name. What's the issue here? Are you running out of steam?

Idiots. What did you think I meant? Now I don't know if you're a stupid man or if you're just acting stupid, but currently you are being an idiot. I do not mean that as an insult, I mean it by the impression you genuinely give me.


The issue is simple, no need to bring others into the conversation. I couldve named others that shared my opinion but have not. Especially not a mod.

Same impression I got of u the moment u said I/we are not true fans because we choose to download.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

We don't need to be talking politics, it's the principle of the example;

Majority doesn't make something right. They weren't right for voting Bush just because there were more of them, just like downloaders are not "right" because there are more.


Yet u keep bringing it up. If it makes u happy, I didnt vote for Bush. The man shouldve never been president. Thats all im saying when it comes to politics.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

How does that work? You download to find out if you like comics, according to you. You say you buy them IF you like them, which one can assume is the conclusion drawn AFTER you download them...right?

Download > Decide if you like it > Buy/Don't buy. Right?

Then why would you suggest it's:

Like > Download? Unless...you download...anyway. Unless...you were lying about using it as a method of previewing.


Download>Read>Liked?, Yes>ebay
Download>Read>Liked?, No>Delete

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not a personal attack, firstly.

Secondly:



Really, I'd give up. Personally. If I had just been torn to shreds by my own hypocrisy, to THAT degree, I'd just walk away.



And yet, even though I said I was done, here u are. Where's the hypocrisy? Ive never denied I downloaded comics. I download comics and IF I like them enough, Ill get them eventually (Its not like im flat out denying it). I will not buy every single thing I like but I will buy nonetheless.

Use Ignore option people...it prevents the idiots, trolls, and people with mental issues (i.e. nutjobs) to harrass you.

Also bitter people. It's good for those, too.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
1)- Back in the 90's. New Mutants, Heroes Reborn. I didn't learn about the wondeful world of downloading comics well after 2002. Even though they started well before that (I believe).

2) No. I mean, never say never but if his style hasn't improve in all this time, I doubt it ever will.

Then you've obviously given him "a penny". Secondly, do you continue to download his material, to this day? Pretty sure you said you do. So, regardless of whether you like the book or not, you don't buy it because of his art?

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Like who? Most of the stuff I get it's Marvel and DC. Stuff that I doubt sales will be affected by downloaders (X-men, Green Lantern).

Making that argument is silly.

"I doubt one person will change anything.". The same was probably said when the first person started littering. Then it became another, then another, now we have an over-polluted planet.

Catch my breadcrumbs?

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Perhaps. All I know is I can back it up. Maybe one day, however unlikely, we'll run into each other.

What makes you assume I can't? Laughable theory, really. The person doing the threatening can always back it up, under the assumption that the other guy can't.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
While I do get what u mean, sometimes I dont care. If I spelled something wrong or forgot punctuations, fk it. Afterall, I'm just talking to u. U aint that big on my list for me to correct grammar mistakes.

It shouldn't take importance of person, you should correct them anyway, but that's not here nor there.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Which is why avoid trouble. When it cant be avoided, Im not worried because I know I can handle myself. So according to u, If u have a kid and someone either insult u or lets say punches u, Do u walk away? It wont surprise me if u say yes.

What...? I was talking about threatening someone on an internet forum because you're angry that you're losing the debate. That's not mature behaviour is it?

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
True. It would make u a hypocrite if u downloaded other media and not comic. So yes, I understand why would u say no even if u did.

...but I don't, so you can stop harping on it.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
The issue is simple, no need to bring others into the conversation. I couldve named others that shared my opinion but have not. Especially not a mod.

Why? It's an open forum. If I want to reference someone by name, it means literally nothing besides that.

You began this as an accusation that I was asking for help, when I simply referenced another poster by name. Odd. Desperate and odd.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Yet u keep bringing it up. If it makes u happy, I didnt vote for Bush. The man shouldve never been president. Thats all im saying when it comes to politics.

For the love of...

I am NOT talking about politics. Look at the bigger picture. It ended badly, but MOST people chose it. Does that make it right? No.

Therefore, there's a warm place in your anus for the argument "The majority of us disagree.". Because it means shit.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Download>Read>Liked?, Yes>ebay
Download>Read>Liked?, No>Delete

That's not what you just said, though. Sort it out.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
And yet, even though I said I was done, here u are. Where's the hypocrisy? Ive never denied I downloaded comics. I download comics and IF I like them enough, Ill get them eventually (Its not like im flat out denying it). I will not buy every single thing I like but I will buy nonetheless.

I'm a hypocrite because YOU said you were done, but I came back? How does that work? I never said I was done, you did, and yet...here YOU are.

How is that anything to do with me? I've exposed everything you said as hollow, unsustainable and hypocritical and now you want to leave, but you won't. That's not my fault.

-AC

Is that u WD

woot

Download, buy tradebacks and occasional hardcovers.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Also bitter people. It's good for those, too.

That's how we deal with you

I'm also broke as sh*t most of the time, but easily manage to find the $12 or so each week that I need for whatever 3-4 titles I'm interested in. Seriously, at worst maybe $16 a week means you can follow about 16 dedicated titles a month, or some combination of ongoing series, one-shots, etc. Not a bad industry that allows for that kind of leeway. Thus, I have no sympathy who use money as an excuse for downloading.

Originally posted by Digi
I'm also broke as sh*t most of the time, but easily manage to find the $12 or so each week that I need for whatever 3-4 titles I'm interested in. Seriously, at worst maybe $16 a week means you can follow about 16 dedicated titles a month, or some combination of ongoing series, one-shots, etc. Not a bad industry that allows for that kind of leeway. Thus, I have no sympathy who use money as an excuse for downloading.

If I want recent comics they'll be shipped on the day and at around 40-50 crowns. That's almost 10 American dollars for a single comic. I was ale however to purchase the Final Crisis + Superman Beyond hardcover for roughly 220, shipping included. Thus, my reasoning for downloading current comics and purchasing collections and tradebacks online. I have no qualms about downloading comics. All literature, art, music and so on should be completely free and funded by the government.

Until that happens, I'll download in protest and pay for the comics of the author's who deserve it.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Download, buy tradebacks and occasional hardcovers.



That's how we deal with you

Because you clearly have me on ignore.

That or you unblocked me just to say that. Either way, cowardly and sad. Bitter about the tanning I gave you, huh?

Join their club.

-AC

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
If I want recent comics they'll be shipped on the day and at around 40-50 crowns. That's almost 10 American dollars for a single comic. I was ale however to purchase the Final Crisis + Superman Beyond hardcover for roughly 220, shipping included. Thus, my reasoning for downloading current comics and purchasing collections and tradebacks online. I have no qualms about downloading comics. All literature, art, music and so on should be completely free and funded by the government.

Until that happens, I'll download in protest and pay for the comics of the author's who deserve it.

I pay for the authors who deserve it too. That is, I buy what I want and enjoy it. They deserve that money. Are the authors you're swindling out of money, and indeed the industry itself, to blame because the government isn't like you want it to be? This, frankly, seems like a immature way out of paying people what they deserve. Imagine yourself as an artist, writer, whatever. Would you happily live off of pennies while people stole your comics? I don't care what your answer is, but you should care what it is. It either means you're willing to let society live in crime while hard-working people go poor, or you have a double standard.

Also, lots of online comic shops sell for less. Just wait a little bit, and avoid spoilers. Not that hard, all things considered.

That also sounds scarily socialist to me, possibly Communist.

Originally posted by Digi
I pay for the authors who deserve it too. That is, I buy what I want and enjoy it. They deserve that money. Are the authors you're swindling out of money, and indeed the industry itself, to blame because the government isn't like you want it to be? This, frankly, seems like a immature way out of paying people what they deserve. Imagine yourself as an artist, writer, whatever. Would you happily live off of pennies while people stole your comics? I don't care what your answer is, but you should care what it is. It either means you're willing to let society live in crime while hard-working people go poor, or you have a double standard.

Also, lots of online comic shops sell for less. Just wait a little bit, and avoid spoilers. Not that hard, all things considered.

We're using the words "earned" and "deserve" a bit loosely here. Loeb does not deserve a dime, a cent, a nickle, any kind of coin, note or anything. A lot of awful writers do not deserve money, plain and simple. I do not support the sale of overpriced comics. I do not support 10 dollars a Hulk 13. I do not support it and I will not pay for it. There is no way to gauge what an author deserves. The man who wrote New X-men deserves more money than the man who wrote X-statix. You do not charge someone the same price for a crappy apartment as you do for a grand house. A better analogy could be art, the prices of paintings differentiates greatly. This is not necessarily an accurate gauge of how much their respective owners/creators earn, not in the least.

The comics of great quality are very rarely the ones that sell. I'd rather support them, but even doing that seems pointless when the entire industry is flawed.

Originally posted by Digi
That also sounds scarily socialist to me, possibly Communist.

Yes, it would be a lot simpler, wouldn't it? Author's guaranteed money and comics for everybody. That would be so awesome!

Originally posted by guy222
Is that u WD

woot

At your service!

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
We're using the words "earned" and "deserve" a bit loosely here. Loeb does not deserve a dime, a cent, a nickle, any kind of coin, note or anything.

Then you do not deserve to own it.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Then you do not deserve to own it.

-AC

Which I do not.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Which I do not.



Very witty

Ok, hypothetical situation:

I go into my local library, and borrow every trade put out about the 'Walking Dead'. Robert Kirkman doesn't get a penny from me.

Have I done something wrong?

Originally posted by WhoopeeDee
At your service!

Great to see ya

This topic garnering lots of results

Originally posted by theICONiac
Ok, hypothetical situation:

I go into my local library, and borrow every trade put out about the 'Walking Dead'. Robert Kirkman doesn't get a penny from me.

Have I done something wrong?

You're dealing with a finite number.

When they are shared online, they are "cloned" in a sense. This is also why it's completely different from stealing, since the original owner does not cease to have it.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
We're using the words "earned" and "deserve" a bit loosely here. Loeb does not deserve a dime, a cent, a nickle, any kind of coin, note or anything. A lot of awful writers do not deserve money, plain and simple. I do not support the sale of overpriced comics. I do not support 10 dollars a Hulk 13. I do not support it and I will not pay for it. There is no way to gauge what an author deserves. The man who wrote New X-men deserves more money than the man who wrote X-statix. You do not charge someone the same price for a crappy apartment as you do for a grand house. A better analogy could be art, the prices of paintings differentiates greatly. This is not necessarily an accurate gauge of how much their respective owners/creators earn, not in the least.

The comics of great quality are very rarely the ones that sell. I'd rather support them, but even doing that seems pointless when the entire industry is flawed.

Then don't buy Hulk 13, don't buy X-statix. Buy good comics. Then the undeserving people don't get your money, and you don't have to read sh*tty comics. And people who do like those comics will happily buy them. Problem solved. Nothing you said justifies downloading comics. It merely justifies not being stupid with purchasing decisions.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Yes, it would be a lot simpler, wouldn't it? Author's guaranteed money and comics for everybody. That would be so awesome!

Communism's a flawed system, and socialism strips freedoms away from people in a number of ways. You're more than welcome to disagree (there are those who legitimately do), and I'm not going to turn this into a political discussion. But if your understanding of such political systems is this straight-forward and rosy, then you have no actual information about them. Because, imo, what would be more awesome is if people paid for the intellectual properties of others instead of finding disingenuous excuses for theft.

N/A

Originally posted by Digi
Communism's a flawed system, and socialism strips freedoms away from people in a number of ways. You're more than welcome to disagree (there are those who legitimately do), and I'm not going to turn this into a political discussion. But if your understanding of such political systems is this straight-forward and rosy, then you have no actual information about them. Because, imo, what would be more awesome is if people paid for the intellectual properties of others instead of finding disingenuous excuses for theft.

I'd watch those wild claims.

Piracy is not akin to theft. The store does not lose a copy of the comics nor does it lose a possible purchase. There is no way to properly estimate the loss of money the store/company suffers from piracy. So yeah, piracy is not theft. That isn't up for debate, because that's just how it is. Downloading a comic is unethical, but not the same as stealing a physical copy.

Communism is also far less flawed than say Capitalism. It doesn't necessarily remove that many freedoms, considering the amount of opportunities it would open for a load of people. It's also great how like America, a capitalistic system has far more restrictions on their inhabitants than Norway with their socialistic system. The whole anti-piracy idiocy seems to be centred around a system which DOES NOT work. Every system has it flaws, trying to insult me based on a claim I did not make is yeah.....less than great.

How much did the comic book writers make in the 80s? Before people started downloading? They were millionaires? The decline in pay for comic book artists and writers is like a myth. Even before downloading was an option they made shit wages and could barely get by. This hasn't changed today and there's little reason to blame piracy. If these guys were paid by the government, it would be a major step up for basically any author.

Being pro-piracy in 2009, based on the ideas that most of you pirate for, is kind of like being anti-marijuana in 2009.

Now, there is just so much evidence to counter the needlessness of your piracy that it's almost ridiculous you'd argue for it.

Every time someone comes up with a factually good argument as to why piracy is shit, you essentially retort with something subjective and hypothetical.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Being pro-piracy in 2009, based on the ideas that most of you pirate for, is kind of like being anti-marijuana in 2009.

Now, there is just so much evidence to counter the needlessness of your piracy that it's almost ridiculous you'd argue for it.

Every time someone comes up with a factually good argument as to why piracy is shit, you essentially retort with something subjective and hypothetical.

-AC

Ok, hypothetical situation:

I go into my local library, and download on the libraries computers every trade put out about the 'Walking Dead'. Robert Kirkman doesn't get a penny from me.

Have I done something wrong?

The honest, ethical, and legal way in Canada.

Downloads.

Originally posted by theICONiac
Ok, hypothetical situation:

I go into my local library, and download on the libraries computers every trade put out about the 'Walking Dead'. Robert Kirkman doesn't get a penny from me.

Have I done something wrong?

That's stealing from the library, though.

Authors give permission for libraries to have their books.

-AC

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
We're using the words "earned" and "deserve" a bit loosely here. Loeb does not deserve a dime, a cent, a nickle, any kind of coin, note or anything. A lot of awful writers do not deserve money, plain and simple. I do not support the sale of overpriced comics. I do not support 10 dollars a Hulk 13. I do not support it and I will not pay for it. There is no way to gauge what an author deserves. The man who wrote New X-men deserves more money than the man who wrote X-statix. You do not charge someone the same price for a crappy apartment as you do for a grand house. A better analogy could be art, the prices of paintings differentiates greatly. This is not necessarily an accurate gauge of how much their respective owners/creators earn, not in the least.

The comics of great quality are very rarely the ones that sell. I'd rather support them, but even doing that seems pointless when the entire industry is flawed.



Yes, it would be a lot simpler, wouldn't it? Author's guaranteed money and comics for everybody. That would be so awesome!

You know, I don't care about your political views, to each his own.

But you have pretty godawful aesthetic views if you didn't like Milligan's late, great "X-Static"

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Being pro-piracy in 2009, based on the ideas that most of you pirate for, is kind of like being anti-marijuana in 2009.

Now, there is just so much evidence to counter the needlessness of your piracy that it's almost ridiculous you'd argue for it.

Every time someone comes up with a factually good argument as to why piracy is shit, you essentially retort with something subjective and hypothetical.

-AC

Eh, which factually good argument was that? I haven't seen a single one. It seems to be "it's like stealing!" and nothing more. And claims that the authors aren't getting what they deserve. Which basically assumes that every comic that's been downloaded is a lost purchase. Which is faaaaaar from the truth.

Originally posted by tjcoady
But you have pretty godawful aesthetic views if you didn't like Milligan's late, great "X-Static"

It's a good comic, I just wasn't a big fan of it

Originally posted by Blanket
The honest, ethical, and legal way in Canada.

Downloads.

Welcome Back Zooey.

Canada's laws are dumb.

You can't upload, but you can download. I understand what the point is (To target those RESPONSIBLE for downloading being possible), and agree with it, but downloaders are still playing their part.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Eh, which factually good argument was that? I haven't seen a single one. It seems to be "it's like stealing!" and nothing more. And claims that the authors aren't getting what they deserve. Which basically assumes that every comic that's been downloaded is a lost purchase. Which is faaaaaar from the truth.

1) It being stealing is as good an argument as any, for a kick off.

2) Every single thing that I've posted has just about proven that there's literally no excuse for downloading unless it's because you can't be bothered to pay. If that's the only defense you have, that you're a lazy slob who wants shit without having to pay, then admit it at least.

That isn't a good argument though.

The "I can't afford it" one is bs. The "I'm trying before I buy" one is full of more holes than a homosexual at an Alabama N.R.A. meeting.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

The "I can't afford it" one is bs. The "I'm trying before I buy" one is full of more holes than a homosexual at an Alabama N.R.A. meeting.

-AC

ho ho ho.

It's actually quite hard to hurt a flagship title by refraining to buy it since comic book stores still order a set amount of issues for distributing regardless of whether or not people are going to buy it. The writers and artists change so frequently that there's no reason to cut the amount of orders for those kind of titles. If you look at Uncanny X-Men this decade it's "sales" have remained stagnant through the "good" and the "bad" and all the price raising.

Same goes for movies, they're still breaking box office records even with all the so called piracy out there.

Regardless of that I just stopped buying/viewing trash, I have my few subscriptions, only watch things that I feel are worth my while and am happier for it. Am a bit peeved that my wallet doesn't hurt either industry but I just don't have time any more to care.

P.S. Marvel are also ass hats for making it so difficult for people like me who live in Europe from get their hands on their Annual issues. Thank God for Amazon.

it's legal to dl in canada? awesome.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
It's actually quite hard to hurt a flagship title by refraining to buy it since comic book stores still order a set amount of issues for distributing regardless of whether or not people are going to buy it. The writers and artists change so frequently that there's no reason to cut the amount of orders for those kind of titles. If you look at Uncanny X-Men this decade it's "sales" have remained stagnant through the "good" and the "bad" and all the price raising.

excellent point.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
P.S. Marvel are also ass hats for making it so difficult for people like me who live in Europe from get their hands on their Annual issues. Thank God for Amazon.


As an Englishman, I feel your pain.

Its hard to get annual issues in the Uk? Since when?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Canada's laws are dumb.

facepalm

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
1) It being stealing is as good an argument as any, for a kick off.

2) Every single thing that I've posted has just about proven that there's literally no excuse for downloading unless it's because you can't be bothered to pay. If that's the only defense you have, that you're a lazy slob who wants shit without having to pay, then admit it at least.

That isn't a good argument though.

The "I can't afford it" one is bs. The "I'm trying before I buy" one is full of more holes than a homosexual at an Alabama N.R.A. meeting.

-AC

1) No, it's not stealing. Keep it up like a broken record, but piracy is not the same as theft. Piracy is piracy and it's not the same as stealing. Piracy is punished in a different manner according to the law. Stealing is also based on the LOSS of property and a finite number of items.

2) First of all, you have a hard time constructing arguments without trying to project your own impressions of what a pirate looks like and is. A slob is a crude and lazy person. How does this translate to downloading? If anything, they would be immoral or unethical, not lazy. If you're going to try and sneak in some insults at least try and keep 'em in the ballpark.

Now, on to the point. It cannot be proven, in the least. You'er claiming that authors are not paid what they have earned if someone downloads a comic? Incorrect. They have already been paid. You can't make a case for this, they are paid long, long before the comics even hit the stands. The store owners are not paid sufficiently and the company might stand some future economical loss, but even this can be argued. So claiming that writers and artists are not paid what they deserve, is a lie. Further more, you have no way of gauging how much they do deserve, considering all the things that would factor in.

It's not really the matter of wanting to pay or not. I want to pay for some comics, not all.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
It's actually quite hard to hurt a flagship title by refraining to buy it since comic book stores still order a set amount of issues for distributing regardless of whether or not people are going to buy it. The writers and artists change so frequently that there's no reason to cut the amount of orders for those kind of titles. If you look at Uncanny X-Men this decade it's "sales" have remained stagnant through the "good" and the "bad" and all the price raising.

Same goes for movies, they're still breaking box office records even with all the so called piracy out there.

Regardless of that I just stopped buying/viewing trash, I have my few subscriptions, only watch things that I feel are worth my while and am happier for it. Am a bit peeved that my wallet doesn't hurt either industry but I just don't have time any more to care.

P.S. Marvel are also ass hats for making it so difficult for people like me who live in Europe from get their hands on their Annual issues. Thank God for Amazon.

People who are anti-piracy seem to be completely oblivious to the actual effects it has on the industry. There was no actual increase in pay for small-time comic book writers. Even big-time writers like Joss Whedon do not make a lot of money off of the comics that are sold. They are also paid by the page, so what the hell does sales have to do with their paycheck? The companies have already paid the writers, artists and pencilers, etc. Poor sales might have future consequences but it's not like they get a set percentage out of the sales.

And like you mentioned, stores have a standard amount of comics that they order.

Dude, aren't you from Britain? You have no right to complain! I used to have to drive 3 hours to reach one of the 4 stores in this entire country who sells comics

Originally posted by Kris Blaze



People who are anti-piracy seem to be completely oblivious to the actual effects it has on the industry. There was no actual increase in pay for small-time comic book writers. Even big-time writers like Joss Whedon do not make a lot of money off of the comics that are sold. They are also paid by the page, so what the hell does sales have to do with their paycheck? The companies have already paid the writers, artists and pencilers, etc. Poor sales might have future consequences but it's not like they get a set percentage out of the sales.

Yes quite. You're just making excuses and you're morally bankrupt. You're dumb, Canadas dumb, Norways dumb in fact everybodys dumb except me. Your argument has more holes in it than a....than a.....something with alot of holes in it.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
1) No, it's not stealing. Keep it up like a broken record, but piracy is not the same as theft. Piracy is piracy and it's not the same as stealing. Piracy is punished in a different manner according to the law. Stealing is also based on the LOSS of property and a finite number of items.

Yeah, theft of intellectual property is stealing. Piracy is stealing. It works THAT was. It not being tangible doesn't make as much a difference as you'd like to think. The only broken record here is you.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
2) First of all, you have a hard time constructing arguments without trying to project your own impressions of what a pirate looks like and is. A slob is a crude and lazy person. How does this translate to downloading? If anything, they would be immoral or unethical, not lazy. If you're going to try and sneak in some insults at least try and keep 'em in the ballpark.

I'm not projecting my own images of anything. Most excuses for piracy are laziness, fact. A lack of desire to pay for shit you want to own or actually go out to buy it. Laziness.

I'm not sneaking anything in, at all.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Now, on to the point. It cannot be proven, in the least. You'er claiming that authors are not paid what they have earned if someone downloads a comic? Incorrect. They have already been paid. You can't make a case for this, they are paid long, long before the comics even hit the stands. The store owners are not paid sufficiently and the company might stand some future economical loss, but even this can be argued. So claiming that writers and artists are not paid what they deserve, is a lie. Further more, you have no way of gauging how much they do deserve, considering all the things that would factor in.

Certain comics companies DO pay on royalties, we're not just talking about the big two here. It's like manufactured pop groups get paid salary, not royalties. Most artists are paid by royalties, so it effects those. Not everyone is a Britney Spears or a Mike Deodato, earning set salaries for big comics.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
It's not really the matter of wanting to pay or not. I want to pay for some comics, not all.

So it is about that, then...how odd.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
People who are anti-piracy seem to be completely oblivious to the actual effects it has on the industry. There was no actual increase in pay for small-time comic book writers. Even big-time writers like Joss Whedon do not make a lot of money off of the comics that are sold. They are also paid by the page, so what the hell does sales have to do with their paycheck? The companies have already paid the writers, artists and pencilers, etc. Poor sales might have future consequences but it's not like they get a set percentage out of the sales.

And like you mentioned, stores have a standard amount of comics that they order.

Dude, aren't you from Britain? You have no right to complain! I used to have to drive 3 hours to reach one of the 4 stores in this entire country who sells comics

I have every right to complain. I bus an hour and a half, two depending on traffic, to comic stores because I love comics and I love owning comics.

I am anti-piracy because I think it's disgraceful and it perpetuates the idea that anonymous theft is cool, to keep doing it, and reduces the cultural impact of any art. Everyone wants to know what things are before they try them, there's no risk taking and no chance anymore. It's like channel surfing. Nobody sits and listens to whole albums anymore because of downloading single songs, iPod shuffles and shit.

It's damaging on greater cultural levels than monetary.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah, theft of intellectual property is stealing. Piracy is stealing. It works THAT was. It not being tangible doesn't make as much a difference as you'd like to think. The only broken record here is you.

It's copyright infringement, which is not theft. You might not think that one differs from the other, but the law does. The dictionary does and so on.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not projecting my own images of anything. Most excuses for piracy are laziness, fact. A lack of desire to pay for shit you want to own or actually go out to buy it. Laziness.

It's a fact? Back it up with something. Please direct me towards a study which proves that most excuses for piracy are laziness. I also wonder how you can OWN something if you downloaded. Pirating a comic does not make one the rightful owner. I know this, you know this, so where is this desire to own them? I do not want to own comics without buying them. It's not possible. Or are you claiming that having 5 MB on your computer is the same as owning a comic?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I have every right to complain. I bus an hour and a half, two depending on traffic, to comic stores because I love comics and I love owning comics.

I am not talking to you. The post was clearly directed at ExodusCloak.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I am anti-piracy because I think it's disgraceful and it perpetuates the idea that anonymous theft is cool, to keep doing it, and reduces the cultural impact of any art. Everyone wants to know what things are before they try them, there's no risk taking and no chance anymore. It's like channel surfing. Nobody sits and listens to whole albums anymore because of downloading single songs, iPod shuffles and shit.

lmao, what is this? You're complaining about how piracy diminishes the RISK in purchasing comics? I'm sorry but there should not be any risk at all. This isn't gambling. Buying a comic should not be the same as rolling a dice. Song downloading? Save that for the bitter anti-pirate's blog. It doesn't have anything to do with this. Nor does the song/album analogy function here. You think downloading results in people not getting the entire series or plots? What in the world...

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Its hard to get annual issues in the Uk? Since when?

Outside of a specific comic shop, I have to hope that the British reprints will include the latest annual.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Dude, aren't you from Britain? You have no right to complain! I used to have to drive 3 hours to reach one of the 4 stores in this entire country who sells comics

The Vega system?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

I have every right to complain. I bus an hour and a half, two depending on traffic, to comic stores because I love comics and I love owning comics.



Sucks to be u! No wonder u bitter. I feel good knowing u have to go through all that just to get ur fix. Me on the other hand, have 2 stores in town plus like 5 more in a 10 mile radius and I still choose to download.

Originally posted by willRules
Outside of a specific comic shop, I have to hope that the British reprints will include the latest annual.



Cant you get them online? Apart from amazon of course.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Downloading a comic is unethical,

My point, she is made.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
but not the same as stealing a physical copy.

Never said it was. It's a form of theft, though.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Communism is also far less flawed than say Capitalism. It doesn't necessarily remove that many freedoms, considering the amount of opportunities it would open for a load of people. It's also great how like America, a capitalistic system has far more restrictions on their inhabitants than Norway with their socialistic system. The whole anti-piracy idiocy seems to be centred around a system which DOES NOT work. Every system has it flaws, trying to insult me based on a claim I did not make is yeah.....less than great.

Disagreement is not insulting. I also didn't defend capitalism as a perfect system, so you can effectively forget your straw man attack on it.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
How much did the comic book writers make in the 80s? Before people started downloading? They were millionaires? The decline in pay for comic book artists and writers is like a myth. Even before downloading was an option they made shit wages and could barely get by. This hasn't changed today and there's little reason to blame piracy. If these guys were paid by the government, it would be a major step up for basically any author.

False distinction. The comic industry is doing far better today than it has in past decades. It's a bigger market. But that doesn't mean that downloading doesn't make them lose a fair amount of money. It does. If it didn't, they wouldn't care about it.

You're still trying to say it's ok to steal from a person because the government isn't like you want it to be. Example: I think we should all have government-subsidized cars. You have two cars and I have none. So I'm going to steal yours, in moral protest. Same thing. You can disagree with a system of government. But to use that to swindle people out of money is cowardly and disingenuous to those who you rip off. It's not their fault they aren't paid by the gov't. But it's certainly your fault that they aren't getting the money they deserve in the system we do have implemented.

Also, social freedoms are not economic freedoms. In a system where money is distributed and divided entirely by the government, there is no economic freedom, which translates to personal freedoms. Legalizing drugs, allowing piracy, or whatever else makes it seem "free," far from makes up for that. But, again, this is free market economics 101, which you seem happily oblivious to. I'd rather not have a discussion where your knowledge is almost entirely one-sided.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Cant you get them online? Apart from amazon of course.

Yeah of course, sometimes.

Originally posted by willRules
Yeah of course, sometimes.

So whats the problem? Maybe 'sometimes' is the important word here.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
It's copyright infringement, which is not theft. You might not think that one differs from the other, but the law does. The dictionary does and so on.

Different branch, same tree.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
It's a fact? Back it up with something. Please direct me towards a study which proves that most excuses for piracy are laziness. I also wonder how you can OWN something if you downloaded. Pirating a comic does not make one the rightful owner. I know this, you know this, so where is this desire to own them? I do not want to own comics without buying them. It's not possible. Or are you claiming that having 5 MB on your computer is the same as owning a comic?

You know as well as I do that people do not care about owning the specific comic, or else they'd buy it. Stop being dumb. I'm referring to owning, as in being in possession of (Loosely used term), the contents.

Of all the debates I've had, literally everyone has said, to one degree or another, that they can't be bothered to buy them. Are there exceptions? Of course. I said most. From experience. Do YOU have counter proof?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
lmao, what is this? You're complaining about how piracy diminishes the RISK in purchasing comics? I'm sorry but there should not be any risk at all. This isn't gambling. Buying a comic should not be the same as rolling a dice. Song downloading? Save that for the bitter anti-pirate's blog. It doesn't have anything to do with this. Nor does the song/album analogy function here. You think downloading results in people not getting the entire series or plots? What in the world...

Obviously the point of actually respecting the idea of when you are meant to have something and not stealing it is beyond you.

It's simple, really.

-AC

Actually my point was that piracy doesn't really have an effect on flagship titles due to the way comics are ordered and distributed via Diamond. The ones who lose out are the local comic book stores sitting with the excess stock which might or might not get sold. And for some reason these stores haven't felt the need to cut their orders in UXM's case. I'm not british I'm from the ROI :P

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Canada's laws are dumb.

You can't upload, but you can download. I understand what the point is (To target those RESPONSIBLE for downloading being possible), and agree with it, but downloaders are still playing their part.
Not DL'ing is dumb.

By legally DL'ing files? lulz



Nom nom nom, comics, and music.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Canada's laws are dumb.

You can't upload, but you can download. I understand what the point is (To target those RESPONSIBLE for downloading being possible), and agree with it, but downloaders are still playing their part.



You know you should emigrate to Canada, they obvously need somebody with your intelligence and integrity to sort them out.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

2) Every single thing that I've posted has just about proven that there's literally no excuse for downloading unless it's because you can't be bothered to pay. If that's the only defense you have, that you're a lazy slob who wants shit without having to pay, then admit it at least.


-AC
I down load comics and it has nothing to do with me being unwilling to pay. There are many reason for why people down load comics, and doing so is not stealing.

Me for example down load comics in order to post them as scans in debates because I do not own a scanner, however I still go out and buy the comics I down load.

Your view somes to be quite narrow.

-BH

I consider downloading to be a silent and nonviolent form of protest against much of the crap that gets put out by the companies, and I'm going to keep doing it. There was literally zero chance of my ever buying another comic book before I started downloading so the companies aren't out a single penny due to the issues I've obtained over the net.

What's more, all the little rectons the companies keep coming up with alter the older stories and if you forked over the cash it means that they've changed the story you bought to something else and your issue is null and void. Unless they're going to start handing out checks to everyone who ever bought a story as a collectors item that was later revealed to be false advertising, I don't have to much sympathy for the companies losses. They can b*tch to me when they send me an issue that features Supes ACTUALLY dying or give me back the $1.25 I paid for the original...

Originally posted by darthgoober
What's more, all the little rectons the companies keep coming up with alter the older stories and if you forked over the cash it means that they've changed the story you bought to something else and your issue is null and void.

thorinn

Only if you post on a stupid comic book debating website.

If you own the comics and enjoy reading them, that's all that matters. I don't really give a f*ck if they "count" for KMC debates.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I consider downloading to be a silent and nonviolent form of protest against much of the crap that gets put out by the companies, and I'm going to keep doing it. There was literally zero chance of my ever buying another comic book before I started downloading so the companies aren't out a single penny due to the issues I've obtained over the net.

What's more, all the little rectons the companies keep coming up with alter the older stories and if you forked over the cash it means that they've changed the story you bought to something else and your issue is null and void. Unless they're going to start handing out checks to everyone who ever bought a story as a collectors item that was later revealed to be false advertising, I don't have to much sympathy for the companies losses. They can b*tch to me when they send me an issue that features Supes ACTUALLY dying or give me back the $1.25 I paid for the original...

.... How does that make any sense at all? Retcons can't literally deprive you of the pleasure that you experienced when you originally read the comic.

Originally posted by batdude123
thorinn

Only if you post on a stupid comic book debating website.

If you own the comics and enjoy reading them, that's all that matters. I don't really give a f*ck if they "count" for KMC debates.
I can't help it, I think about more than just goes on between the covers of the specific issue in question. If they later tell me that the issue I bought was a dream or a clone, it takes away from my enjoyment of the issue I already paid money for. It might not bother you or others, but it bothers me. There's probably plenty of things that bother you that I could care less about too.

And it was like that long before I joined KMC, which is why it had been years since I'd actually bought a comic when I joined the forum.

Originally posted by tjcoady
.... How does that make any sense at all? Retcons can't literally deprive you of the pleasure that you experienced when you originally read the comic.
They can deprive you of the pleasure you get when you go back and re-read the issue after the recton.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I can't help it, I think about more than just goes on between the covers of the specific issue in question. If they later tell me that the issue I bought was a dream or a clone, it takes away from my enjoyment of the issue I already paid money for. It might not bother you or others, but it bothers me. There's probably plenty of things that bother you that I could care less about too.

And it was like that long before I joined KMC, which is why it had been years since I'd actually bought a comic when I joined the forum.

Then, my friend, your priorities are out of whack.

Originally posted by batdude123
Then, my friend, your priorities are out of whack.
I say the same thing about the companies.

A silent form of protest? Downloading?

Then how is anyone gonna know you're even protesting? Dumbest argument ever. "I'm anti-war, so I'm gonna sit at home, not vote and say nothing.".

Battlehammer, it IS stealing. Fact. Either prove illegally downloading ISN'T or don't chime in. I've proven it is, do you have counters?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You know you should emigrate to Canada, they obvously need somebody with your intelligence and integrity to sort them out.

Got an argument, or are you just gonna keep your miniskirt on and keep dancing with the pom poms for Kris?

I'm sure ya look hot and everything, but this is a debate, not a "Who can get on their knees for Kris the fastest." contest.

-AC