Kyp Durron, Corran Horn Vs. Darth Caedus

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truejedi
In Fury, Luke turns down an opportunity to lead an attack on Caedus. He instead turns the mission over to Kyle Katarn. If instead, the mission had consisted of Kyp and Corran, and they had gotten Jacen alone, would they have been able to finish him off?

No 3 areas of combat, instead, One fight to the death.

Vorpal Ruin
Jacen loses. Kyp and Corran are two of the strongest in the NJO, and they aren't going to lose to Caedus 2v1.

chilled monkey
Originally posted by truejedi
In Fury, Luke turns down an opportunity to lead an attack on Caedus. He instead turns the mission over to Kyle Katarn. If instead, the mission had consisted of Kyp and Corran, and they had gotten Jacen alone, would they have been able to finish him off?

No 3 areas of combat, instead, One fight to the death.

An interesting idea, but keep in mind the goal of that mission was to plant a tracking device on Caedus, not to kill him.

Lightsnake
So? They'd have killed him if they were in ANY way capable of it given the threat he was. Hold back against Caedus and you'll get killed.

truejedi
Well, the initial mission idea (pg. 37 i think) was to CAPTURE Caedus. I don't think even these two would be capable of that. Kill him, but not capture him. The tracker was the backup plan in case the attack failed.

Vorpal Ruin
Whats it matter if the mission was to put a tracking device on him in the book? This is a different scenario.

truejedi
thank you VR. This is an all-encompassing battle to the death.

bayhunter12
Caedus takes this.

truejedi
Well, I see Horn as the weak link, And i'm unsure how to substantiate Kyp's saber skills. So I think Caedus might win as well. But then i remeber that he lost to Jaina, and i'm just all confused.

Vorpal Ruin
Hows Corran a weak link? He would probably be able to use Caedus' own force lightening against him. He also outdueled Mara Jade in lightsaber combat. Him paired with the force titan Kyp Durron should be more than enough to beat Caedus.

truejedi
refresh my memory of Horn's exploits. I remember Ghanner Rhysode had to rescue him one time. And then he fought and killed the warmaster of the Vong, but I seriously can't think of anything other than those 2 things.

Kyp is a force beast, but i don't remember anything he has done with a saber. Can anyone fill in the blanks there?

BruceSkywalker
Jacen ftw, not easily though

Vorpal Ruin
People are saying Caedus would win, but nobody is saying why.

Lord Lucien
Off-topicish, but has anyone ever wondered why, when opportunities to take on the big bad guy come about, that the protagonists always decide to either solo, go with a partner, or just a few guys. Take every Master. Every Knight too. Luke faces him alone---take everyone, jackass.

truejedi
or just send Luke. How many times did Luke not even bother to go kill Caedus because it would send him to the dark side?

Remember the ridiculous fight between Seba, Ben, and Luke against Caedus, where they end up retreating to save Seba? If they had just stayed and fought, and Luke had gone ahead and taken out Jacen, they could have gotten Seba help faster. THAT was so stupid it barely bears repeating.

Elite Hunter
Originally posted by chilled monkey
An interesting idea, but keep in mind the goal of that mission was to plant a tracking device on Caedus, not to kill him.

No, only Katarn knew the truth about the mission, the other jedi knights had no clue, it is explained later on in the book in a conversation between Luke, Ben and Kyp (or Corran but im pretty sure its kyp)

Dr McBeefington
Originally posted by Elite Hunter
No, only Katarn knew the truth about the mission, the other jedi knights had no clue, it is explained later on in the book in a conversation between Luke, Ben and Kyp (or Corran but im pretty sure its kyp)

And Katarn was the only real powerful Jedi on the mission. That would have been one hell of a battle but the mission objective was to plant a tracer on Jacen, not kill him.

truejedi
but...but...but... I don't care. What if they wanted to kill him, and it was just Kyp. And Horn? Would they kill him? Or would they die?

Darth_Glentract
Gotta give it to Corran and Kyp. I dont think Jacen ever surpassed Kyp in brute strength with the Force and isnt likely to be able to use his special techniques during battle cause they wouldnt really help him there. Corran helping out leaves Jacen overwhelmed.

xxxpoppunker182
Just curious here but most people seem to keep saying kyp is a force beast and titan. Can anyone give me some feats or exploits that kyp has done? Because I don't recall him doing anything special in DN, LOTF, or anything in FOTJ so far.

Vorpal Ruin
Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
Just curious here but most people seem to keep saying kyp is a force beast and titan. Can anyone give me some feats or exploits that kyp has done? Because I don't recall him doing anything special in DN, LOTF, or anything in FOTJ so far.

You should recall him being able to duplicate Luke Skywalker's feat of manipulating a dovin basal.

truejedi
pulled the suncrusher out of a star.

mattatom
Originally posted by truejedi
pulled the suncrusher out of a star. With Exar Kun's Spirit to help him.

truejedi
Originally posted by mattatom
With Exar Kun's Spirit to help him.

true, we don't know how much power Kun's spirit had though. Not enough to beat Luke on his own, apparently. Or he would have done it instead of waiting for Kyp to join him.

xxxpoppunker182
Kyps power increased alot with Kuns spirit I remember that in the JA books.

either way you guys are saying kyp is a force titan for manipulating a dovin basal and pulling the suncrusher out of the gas giant yavin with the aid of Kuns spirit. And even though you didn;t mention it Luke said Kyp has more potential than he does(I dunno if that was retconed or not).

That's not nearly enough evidence IMO to call someone a force titan or a beast with the force.

I'm not trying to burt anyones bubble it's just I want to know what he's done exactly because as far as i've read he hsn't done anything THAt awesome aside from the dovin basal thing.

XER
Yeah nothing THAT awesome aside from arguably the greatest display of power and control over the Force in the entire mythology.

Vorpal Ruin
Originally posted by XER
Yeah nothing THAT awesome aside from arguably the greatest display of power and control over the Force in the entire mythology.

Indeed.

xxxpoppunker182
no it isn't THAT big of a feat.

arguably the greatest display of power........ not even close.

Luke, Sidious, Jacen and others have demonstrated better display's of power and control over the force.

Vorpal Ruin
Name Luke or Jacen's feats that are so much better that Kyp's is "not even close".

XER
red explain to everyone how a black hole works plz

Lord Lucien
It's god sucking the fabric of the universe through a straw from his Star Palace in Heaven.

Red Nemesis
1. Neb, a quark is (theoretically, they haven't found proof yet so it was scientific modesty to add the qualifier) considered an indivisible unit of matter.

2. Black holes and microblackholes:





To put it simply, a black hole is an area that nothing can get away from. Naturally, this implies that it has a very large gravitational pull.

But.

This is why the good folks at CERN were given so much grief. There was concern that the normal operation would give rise to a stable microblack hole able to interact with the earth in such a way as to destroy it. They thought we were gonna get eaten.

There are objections to this that span many levels of scientific awareness- from the argument that if it could've happened it would've already (since they're just re-creating conditions in the upper atmosphere) to the idea that any black hole they create will have the gravity of the two protons they collided (my personal favorite) to the high end math suggesting that Hawking radiation (or some other factor involving dimensions?) precludes such an event. So CERN is cool.

But I digress.

Black holes as they are presented in the NJO- that is, black holes able to rapidly change the course of a starfighter sized object and suck ships into their event horizon, to say nothing of blaster shots, would have to have immensely powerful gravitational fields. As in, many thousands greater than Earth.

Kyp moved an object with a mass many times greater than Earth. This puts his TK feat above N and above Luke and above Sidious and, lord forgive me, far above Yoda and Mace. I'm not entirely sure that you comprehend the immensity of the feat. We'll try this:

There is a passage (vaguely recalled, a source would be nice?) in which a Republic starfighter intersects a black hole. The entire ship is consumed. The entire ship, easily capable of withstanding the gees present in high speed space combat, to say nothing of a planet's gravity was pulled in within seconds (or else the ship would've kept sailing past the black hole). This means that (that hole, at least) would have to have a gravity well capable of exerting force greater than a planet's gravity.

Kyp could've moved the moon that Bane did with his eyes closed and his hands tied behind his back. But he didn't. He moved the planet he was on instead.


Edit: If anyone needs proof that Luke is a Force GOD then think of this: the black hole at the center of the galaxy that he is compared to? That is a super massive black hole, many millions of times greater than the ones Kyp was struggling with. Also (in case that was poetic license) Luke used the trick several times in a row during... TFU? Kyp was only able to do one at a time.

truejedi
luke did it t00!!

Red Nemesis
Also #2: Didn't Jaina do it? And Leia? That makes me sad on the outside.

truejedi
did they? i'm not sure on that one.

xxxpoppunker182
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
1. Neb, a quark is (theoretically, they haven't found proof yet so it was scientific modesty to add the qualifier) considered an indivisible unit of matter.

2. Black holes and microblackholes:





To put it simply, a black hole is an area that nothing can get away from. Naturally, this implies that it has a very large gravitational pull.

But.

This is why the good folks at CERN were given so much grief. There was concern that the normal operation would give rise to a stable microblack hole able to interact with the earth in such a way as to destroy it. They thought we were gonna get eaten.

There are objections to this that span many levels of scientific awareness- from the argument that if it could've happened it would've already (since they're just re-creating conditions in the upper atmosphere) to the idea that any black hole they create will have the gravity of the two protons they collided (my personal favorite) to the high end math suggesting that Hawking radiation (or some other factor involving dimensions?) precludes such an event. So CERN is cool.

But I digress.

Black holes as they are presented in the NJO- that is, black holes able to rapidly change the course of a starfighter sized object and suck ships into their event horizon, to say nothing of blaster shots, would have to have immensely powerful gravitational fields. As in, many thousands greater than Earth.

Kyp moved an object with a mass many times greater than Earth. This puts his TK feat above N and above Luke and above Sidious and, lord forgive me, far above Yoda and Mace. I'm not entirely sure that you comprehend the immensity of the feat. We'll try this:

There is a passage (vaguely recalled, a source would be nice?) in which a Republic starfighter intersects a black hole. The entire ship is consumed. The entire ship, easily capable of withstanding the gees present in high speed space combat, to say nothing of a planet's gravity was pulled in within seconds (or else the ship would've kept sailing past the black hole). This means that (that hole, at least) would have to have a gravity well capable of exerting force greater than a planet's gravity.

Kyp could've moved the moon that Bane did with his eyes closed and his hands tied behind his back. But he didn't. He moved the planet he was on instead.


Edit: If anyone needs proof that Luke is a Force GOD then think of this: the black hole at the center of the galaxy that he is compared to? That is a super massive black hole, many millions of times greater than the ones Kyp was struggling with. Also (in case that was poetic license) Luke used the trick several times in a row during... TFU? Kyp was only able to do one at a time.

He manipulated an artificial micro black hole once?

don't get me wrong it's impressive but you are using this one feat to infer he is awesome with everything else in the force and that's not always true, for example the horn family can be very strong in the force but he BLOWS at TK and is awesome at illusions.

Honestly I don't mean to argue i just want to know what else he has done aside from his one claim to force using fame.

Red Nemesis
Aside from the discretionary power to total civilizations? makes N look a bit tame by comparison, doesn't it? His two feats (the Ravager and the instakill) one feat (Ravager) is enough to put him in contention for most powerful Sith (on some lists). You don't think this exponentially more impressive feat is comparable?

truejedi
hooray. cause luke did it too. more than once. I'm not sure about Jaina or Leia though.

Vorpal Ruin
Wasn't Luke just sitting down while manipulating the black hole? Kyp was piloting a fighter ship I think.

truejedi
Luke was piloting in at least one example.

Vorpal Ruin
Well I know atleast his first time he wasn't piloting. It probably got a little easier after his 1st attempt. While Kyp's was piloting while in combat.

Gideon
Quote ze relevant passages for my assessment plz.

Darth_Glentract
I'm 99% sure that Luke was a passenger in a combat shuttle when he performed the black hole feat. Is it that amazing of a thing? Not really, because if it was as far beyond as we seem to think that it is, why didn't he just crush every enemy in his path with ease. The dovin basals didn't have several times the mass of a black hole or Luke would have had no problems in any of his other fights.

However, Luke was more drained from the technique than Kyp appeared to be. Granted, such techniques are far easier once mastered (like when Luke created a doppleganger the Jade Shadow. The first time almost killed him, after mastery it was difficult but nothing like the first time).

There are things that DO point to Kyp being a beast with the Force though.

"Of course, my best was nothing compared to Kyp Durron's best. Kyp's growth in the Force was nothing shy of incredible. In just over a week he surpassed anything the rest of us where doing by light-years. Master Skywalker didn't know what to do with him, he was so good. Kyp gave us hope that reestablishing the Jedi Order could be and would be done."
―Corran Horn commenting on Kyp's power. Its from I, jedi (my favorite SW book)

"Kyp Durron, young and impetuous much like me when I was his age. Once my greatest student then my greatest enemy under the tutelage of the shade of Exar Kun. He has been through much... I believe Kyp could become the greatest of us all."
―Luke Skywalker

"Kyp is an exceptionally powerful Jedi. He'd have to be. The only reason he's still alive is that people who mattered believed that his talent overbalanced his past crimes."
―Jaina Solo

In addition to what else has been said, Kyp also fought and killed a Leviathan on Corbos. A Leviathan was a Sith "superweapon."

I think those pretty much make him being powerful evident.

Red Nemesis
Because the writers are not cognizant of the incredible power such a feat would require. Ignorance on their part, and therefore PIS on Luke's.


*More than a planet* Not more than a black hole.

Also: Your argument against the magnitude of the feat is that he doesn't apply the power elsewhere? You want to say this feat (which he reproduces multiple times) isn't as impressive because his other feats aren't impressive? That's both foolish and wrong.

Dr McBeefington
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Because the writers are not cognizant of the incredible power such a feat would require. Ignorance on their part, and therefore PIS on Luke's.


*More than a planet* Not more than a black hole.

Also: Your argument against the magnitude of the feat is that he doesn't apply the power elsewhere? You want to say this feat (which he reproduces multiple times) isn't as impressive because his other feats aren't impressive? That's both foolish and wrong.


Amen.

Gideon
Gideon
Quote ze relevant passages for my assessment plzNOW

truejedi
Gideon? For Kyp? or for Luke?

Darth_Glentract
Yeah Gideon, not really sure what youre asking for.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Because the writers are not cognizant of the incredible power such a feat would require. Ignorance on their part, and therefore PIS on Luke's.

It doesn't matter if the authors realize the physics behind it. You can't throw out canon under the banner of PIS. The overwhelming evidence points that Luke doesn't have the power to move several planets equivalent of matter.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
*More than a planet* Not more than a black hole.

Sorry, I misspoke (typed? lol). The difference is inconsequential. The Earth has a mass of aprox 6E24kg. So that's 6E22 times the mass of the average guy he might fight (100kg, 220 pounds). Why didn't he propel Lumiya into space with a twitch of his finger? He obviously wanted to. The same when fighting Unuthul, Lomi Plo, or Welk? It just doesn't add up, bud.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Also: Your argument against the magnitude of the feat is that he doesn't apply the power elsewhere? You want to say this feat (which he reproduces multiple times) isn't as impressive because his other feats aren't impressive? That's both foolish and wrong.

When were the multiple other times? I only remember that one time on Dantooine. Be specific.

"During the Battle of Dantooine of the Yuuzhan Vong War, Luke tricked a vehicle's dovin basals into colliding its own black hole against itself by using the Force to hold the void against the pull of the dovin basals; then reversing the direction of his own pull, adding it to the pull of the dovin basals, so that the void would collide against the spine of the vehicle."

The Dovin Basal still did most of the work, not Luke.

BTW, theoretically black holes have no practical lower limit for their minimum mass, so we don't know if it was a few tons for a dovin basal, or (and this is ridiculous to believe) the size of massive astronomical black holes seen in space.


Luke is no Force god. The most powerful, yeah definitely (possibly equaled only by Sidious at his peak), but he isn't this ridiculous being that no one can hold a candle against.

Dr McBeefington
This was never in question so I don't see why you're bringing it up.

Darth_Glentract
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
This was never in question so I don't see why you're bringing it up.

I've noticed people say repeatedly that Luke is a Force god and I'm disputing it, so that was brought up. As for me calling him the most powerful, I was just saying that I agree. I'm not arguing to say he's weak. Just didn't want to make that impression.

truejedi
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Yeah Gideon, not really sure what youre asking for.



It doesn't matter if the authors realize the physics behind it. You can't throw out canon under the banner of PIS. The overwhelming evidence points that Luke doesn't have the power to move several planets equivalent of matter.



Sorry, I misspoke (typed? lol). The difference is inconsequential. The Earth has a mass of aprox 6E24kg. So that's 6E22 times the mass of the average guy he might fight (100kg, 220 pounds). Why didn't he propel Lumiya into space with a twitch of his finger? He obviously wanted to. The same when fighting Unuthul, Lomi Plo, or Welk? It just doesn't add up, bud.



When were the multiple other times? I only remember that one time on Dantooine. Be specific.

"During the Battle of Dantooine of the Yuuzhan Vong War, Luke tricked a vehicle's dovin basals into colliding its own black hole against itself by using the Force to hold the void against the pull of the dovin basals; then reversing the direction of his own pull, adding it to the pull of the dovin basals, so that the void would collide against the spine of the vehicle."

The Dovin Basal still did most of the work, not Luke.

BTW, theoretically black holes have no practical lower limit for their minimum mass, so we don't know if it was a few tons for a dovin basal, or (and this is ridiculous to believe) the size of massive astronomical black holes seen in space.


Luke is no Force god. The most powerful, yeah definitely (possibly equaled only by Sidious at his peak), but he isn't this ridiculous being that no one can hold a candle against.

QFT
I really had never thought of the black hole feat as so great until Red pointed it out what a great feat that was. (thanks Red!!!)

Moving something with the mass of several planets is.... A whole new level.

And if you are looking for the Luke quote gideon, it was posted a week or two ago, somewhere. No question it happened. If you are looking for the Kyp quote, i don't have that one.

Dr McBeefington
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I've noticed people say repeatedly that Luke is a Force god and I'm disputing it, so that was brought up. As for me calling him the most powerful, I was just saying that I agree. I'm not arguing to say he's weak. Just didn't want to make that impression.

Where has anyone called him a force god in the past few years here?

truejedi
Glentract, it was actually YOUR QUOTE calling Luke a force God that had me conceding a point to Gideon last week. (i contended that no one seriously thought of luke as an untouchable force-god.) Red posted your quote from last year calling him one, and i had to concede.

So its not some people, it was you. (And lucien)

Hewhoknowsall
This may seem very off topic, but when the Hidden One zapped Luke with lightning Luke managed to stop it but got knocked back pretty far, and yet Mace was able to stop Sidious's lightning without getting knocked back. And Sidious >>>> Hidden One.

truejedi
Originally posted by truejedi
Glentract, it was actually YOUR QUOTE calling Luke a force God that had me conceding a point to Gideon last week. (i contended that no one seriously thought of luke as an untouchable force-god.) Red posted your quote from last year calling him one, and i had to concede.

So its not some people, it was you. (And lucien)

EDIT: though to be honest, reading your quote again, it seems like maybe you didn't quite mean it like that...

Red Nemesis
The minimum theoretical mass is the plank mass. (It is very small. That's all that is important.)

The minimum mass for a black hole that would have the properties we've seen is not small in the least. They had a gravitational pull capable of altering starship sized objects' trajectory so quickly that it was a valid propulsion system in combat. This indicates that the pull of gravity must necessarily be much greater than that of a plank body.

Dr McBeefington
So what you're saying is...Luke is a force God.

Gideon
truejedi
Gideon? For Kyp? or for Luke?

Both plz.



A wild night of passion?

shifty

truejedi
Originally posted by Gideon
Both plz.




I found this posted by Eminence 2 weeks ago when you asked for the same passage.

The Kyp one, i have no memory of, nor do i have the source.

Darth_Glentract
Aww, no replay Nemesis?

Originally posted by truejedi
Glentract, it was actually YOUR QUOTE calling Luke a force God that had me conceding a point to Gideon last week. (i contended that no one seriously thought of luke as an untouchable force-god.) Red posted your quote from last year calling him one, and i had to concede.

So its not some people, it was you. (And lucien)

What quote was that? Was on even on here a week ago? I'm totally confused.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
The minimum theoretical mass is the plank mass. (It is very small. That's all that is important.)

The minimum mass for a black hole that would have the properties we've seen is not small in the least. They had a gravitational pull capable of altering starship sized objects' trajectory so quickly that it was a valid propulsion system in combat. This indicates that the pull of gravity must necessarily be much greater than that of a plank body.

Greater than a plank body does not mean the mass of several planets and we know that didn't control the entire force of the dovin basal, he tricked it into consuming itself.

Originally posted by Gideon
A wild night of passion?

I've got the KY jelly ready...

truejedi
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Luke in Dark Nest is a LOT weaker than NJO Luke, so you should read that if NJO-god-Luke was all that was keeping you from reading NJO.

Nemises quoted you from 2005 i believe, in saying that NJO Luke was a force-God.

Red Nemesis
Did I say that the reason it has the mass of several planets is that it is > a plank body? The answer is a resounding no.

Read:


A plank body would have a gravitational pull on the surrounding universe equal to its mass. The reason it would be considered a black hole is that it is concentrated in such a small space; in that small space it would be able to entrap light, but it wouldn't be different from a proton outside of its event horizon. The black holes we see do not exert a gravitational pull equal to that of a plank body- not even close. Their effective fields extend far past their event horizons and show incredible strength.

So: NO

truejedi
gravity is my favorite concept in all of physics. Fascinating.

Red Nemesis
Gravity makes me angrY with a capital Y: FIND ME A GRAVITON NOW CERN! blowup

Ima gonna blow me up an Enterprise!

xxxpoppunker182
alright so kyp has one awesome feat with the force.

Now I want to know what ELSE he has done.

the leviathan thing is cool although I don't know exactly what happened.

This is just because I'm curious and wookiee doesn't always have everything.

Darth_Glentract
Aww, no reply for the rest of my last post?

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Did I say that the reason it has the mass of several planets is that it is > a plank body? The answer is a resounding no.

A plank body would have a gravitational pull on the surrounding universe equal to its mass. The reason it would be considered a black hole is that it is concentrated in such a small space; in that small space it would be able to entrap light, but it wouldn't be different from a proton outside of its event horizon. The black holes we see do not exert a gravitational pull equal to that of a plank body- not even close. Their effective fields extend far past their event horizons and show incredible strength.

So: NO



I still cant see that pointing towards the black hole having had mass of several planets. And, Luke didn't overwhelm the black hole, he just somewhat directed it.

"As they brought it close to the vehicle, Luke pushed with the Force. Since the dovin basals were already tugging the void back toward the vehicle, they were not prepared to have the travel accelerated."

And think about this. Can you really justify a mass of several planets just above a planets surface. Everyone around would be pulled. It'd probably rip the planet in half.

Red Nemesis
I missed it. So we see Luke's ability magnified. Not only is he capable of manipulating the massive black hole, he is capable of doing so while directly counteracting the force of the Dovin Basal. This makes the feat even moar pwn.




Hmm. I hadn't considered this. *thinx*


...

The black holes have the gravitational pull to quickly change the directions of starships. Starships are not particularly massive, but it also had the capacity to absorb starships. This indicates that the gravity is > gee forces encountered during acceleration.

But Also: The black hole doesn't have a gravity well as large as a planet. It is as strong (?), but not nearly as large.

Srsly. This doesn't make any sense. Maybe we should PM DDM? He was a physix major for a while, maybe he'll know.

I'm gonna back off this point, even if only to check facts. I think it is obvious that physics can't apply in the SW universe (hello: LIGHTSABERS) and that this might just have to default to a case of soft Sci-Fi magic. (damn.)

XER
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I missed it.

Lies. big grin

Darth_Glentract
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I missed it. So we see Luke's ability magnified. Not only is he capable of manipulating the massive black hole, he is capable of doing so while directly counteracting the force of the Dovin Basal. This makes the feat even moar pwn.

Not really. You know the game where you and an opponent stand on one leg and push against each other and the try to pull the other person down? It's basically the same thing. The dovin basal controlled the black hole. Luke just tugged on it in one direction and then when it overcompensated towards the ship he just pushed it a little farther than what the dovin basal was trying to do.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Hmm. I hadn't considered this. *thinx*


...

The black holes have the gravitational pull to quickly change the directions of starships. Starships are not particularly massive, but it also had the capacity to absorb starships. This indicates that the gravity is > gee forces encountered during acceleration.

But Also: The black hole doesn't have a gravity well as large as a planet. It is as strong (?), but not nearly as large.

Srsly. This doesn't make any sense. Maybe we should PM DDM? He was a physix major for a while, maybe he'll know.

I'm gonna back off this point, even if only to check facts. I think it is obvious that physics can't apply in the SW universe (hello: LIGHTSABERS) and that this might just have to default to a case of soft Sci-Fi magic. (damn.)

DDM? Who's that?

I'm afraid it might not be possible to get an explanation that doesn't defy the laws of physics, but we can try.

We know that dovin basals dont are not all the same size and that they don't emit just one power micro-black hole. Perhaps the one used as shielding is FAR smaller than ones that would have to be used for propulsion? Still might suck people in from a pretty far distance but might no crack the planet smile Plus it was just one dovin basal, where capital ships has 60, most of which were probably used to much greater extend than near a planet. A Rakamat is just a ground vehicle. The difference between a ISD and a AT-AT.

Red Nemesis
Daduomon (sp?) who posts in the General, Star Trek, and Manga (and comix?) sections.


Only this game is played by pushing an (apparently?) incredibly massive object with your mind. It wouldn't matter if Luke could counteract the Dovin Basal's push if he couldn't move the Black hole himself.

Darth_Glentract
Not necessarily. Dovin basal puts the dovin basal next to the ship. Luke pulls with 20 power (arbitrary number) away from the ship. Ship counters with 20. Luke pushes with 20. Even though it takes more than Luke used to push it. The dovin basal moves because he tricked the dovin basal to move it.

Red Nemesis
Hmm...

gideongarner01
Kyp and corran alone are below caedus by a decent margin. But together I think they have the power to beat caedus for a very slight majority of 6-6.5/10. Caedus is easily in the top 5 strongest sith ever possibly even top 3. But kyp is a top 5 Jedi and corran should be able to make it into the top 10.

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