what where the elves doing at helms deep??
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glorfindel
the film has it so wrong that i almost (but not qite) made a sound in the picture house,(gasp)
the elves where sent to help the humans fight the orcs in rememberance of the last whole all alliancxe between men and elves against sauron, but the allies were gondor and the elves not the rohan
it was a great film but why change it ?
mah
its no mystery, as PJ changed some parts he felt would be better for the film
glorfindel
must admit it did work well
Dexx
yes..but it wasn't necessarry. Instead he could've kept the last alliance, as you said, between elves and gondor (if he didn't), and simply increase the rohirrim's number...300 was a little low indeed. Eomer's appearance was suited enough.
Ushgarak
He couldn't have 'kept' the Last Alliance, it was done and dusted at the end of the Second Age.
But yes, to give the Elves more dramatic emphasis in the film, he MASSIVELY increased the number of Riders Eomer took with him, and beefed up the Helm's Deep defences with Elves.
Dexx
just a company of dwarves was missing
finti
nah they ran underneath the cameras
Dexx
i loved that gimly shot with the huge armor
"it's a little tight across the chest"
Fitch
yeahthat was awsome.I wonder when he had time to change....
Dejio
Did anyone feel really bad everytime an elf died in the Helms Deep scene?
They're so pure and dignified that it's just such a waste that some of them were killed by some stinkin Uruk-Hai.
Dexx
i kinda like the uruk-hai. But i was sorry to see haldir go
Dejio
Yeah, me too. My friends were shocked when he died. Too bad. We could've seen more of him in action in ROTK.
Ushgarak
Consideirng how many he kills in its history, Tolkien was always damn reticent to kill main characters in LOTR.
Dexx
i don't even remember how haldir dies in the books.
But, yes..the silmarillion is full of those damned sudden deaths.
Mujaffa
have you seen mosqitos when you spray'em with hairspray...they fell like flies
Fitch
what a comparation.....
Mujaffa
it's the easiest one!
mah
well they didn't die QUITE as easily
Mujaffa
yeah but biggest fatalities where orcs, then elfs
Dejio
...10,000 Uruk-Hai's dead... Whoh, that's a lot of bodies. Wonder what they did with them? Burn them? It must've stinked up the place all the way to Isengard.
Anyway, I liked how the whole "Elf-in-Helms Deep" thing worked out in the movie. It may not be accurate, but it was enjoyable nonetheless.
Dark_Queen
hi all,im new to this forum.i hope u dont mind me joining into the discussion a bit late...
actually,i thought the elves in helms deep looked good and all that,but the elves's last battle was the last alliance one with men(as you have mentioned).Pj shouldn't have involved them.And with Haldir dying..well,that was abit too dramatic i thought.
Anyway,the elves are suppose to be passing onto the grey havens aren't they??
Dark_Queen
Ushgarak
Oh, there are still enough Elves to fight in LOTR, even in the books. Just not enough to form a true alliance wth man any more.
Fire
I still think it was a great touch of PJ
but I should shut up I'm just an elf fan
Arien
back to the haldir dying thingie.
well, in ROTK he was eaten by a warg.
PJ wanted to give him an honorable death.
id take being slayed by orcs over being chomped on by
a warg any day. how bout u?
General Kaliero
I'd rather see him chomped by a warg. Those things are cool.
Captain REX
I'm rereading The Hobbit for the first time in awhile, so now I have a visual of what those things look like.
Nah, Haldir deserved an honorable death.
I swear, one of the Elves gave the great Wilhelm scream! He was killed and fell off the wall and did the great Wilhelm scream! Ya know, the one that stormtroopers do when they die?
Izz
was he eaten by a warg??????? what chapter? i can't remember it at all...
Mithrandir
omg captain rex, ur so right! I swear i thought i was hearing things when i hard that elf fall, it did sound like a stormtrooper!
mah
yeah, there was some article on that on theonering or something, and you're indeed correct rex
Myndon
it has been said that the elves were used for helms deep instead of the other people to make the whole storyline more simpiler
Captain REX
'Sounds' good to me Myndon.
I knew my ears wouldn't deceive me!
Anyway, the Elves fought well at the battle. Archers really make a difference. Believe me, this is true even in Age of Empires!
Jimmy Cokes
I don't think Haldir was killed by a Warg. I don't even think he was in ROTK. He was just expanded by PJ in the film and killed off to get an emotional reaction, which I think worked rather well.
In other news, I might have my history mixed up, but I believe that Rohan was part of Gondor around the time of the great alliance, and even if not, men in general were fighting Sauron, so there's nothing weird about the elves helping. The country isn't important. It's elves and men.
Jimmy
Ushgarak
There was no such place as Rohan then; it was called Caelnardhon and was part of Gondor, which was much more mighty then (along with Arnor up north). It had also not existed very long; Gondor and Arnor were brand new, having only just been set-up by the refugees who fled from Numenor when it was destroyed, and immediately its leader, Elendil, allied with the Elven leader, Gil-Galad, to try and sort out Sauron once and for all (the men from Numenor being peeved that Sauron had tricked their comrades into self-destruction when he was technically their captive, Numenor having defeated and captured Sauron a long while back)
Caelnardhon never recovered from the Great Plague and was depopulated. After the Eotheod from the north saved Gondor from the invasion of the Easterling Balchoth, about 500 years before LOTR, they were granted Caelnardhon in reward, it was renamed Rohan, and they became its masters, the Rohirrim, or Horse Lords (though the Elves had called them that for ages. They called themselves then the Eorlingas and called the land the Riddermark).
But yes, obviously Man and Elf fought in Alliance back then, hence The Last Alliance. The question really was how did the Elves get there so quick, and why put them there when they were not in the book. Which I think has been answered.
But yes, I don't remember Haldir dying in the book either.
PeekaReet
I didn't like Haldir....but he was still touching while dying...oh well....he was kinda....ahem *forgive me* GAY LOOKING....yeah...ok Im done...
anyhoo, i didn't think much about the elves at Helms Deep...i was expecting something like that....he changed so much....
aniron
The elves were at helms deep because Lord elrond sent them, if you remember that in the two towers when Arwen is leaving, lady Galadriel appears sending thoughts to elrond and asks hi if he leaves men to stand alone, so he sent elves to fight in helms deep as the final help from him
username39120jo
U rok, for saying what i have not had the guts to say! couldn't agree more!
GABRIEL05
Yeah. The elves did look kinda "trojan army" and they did die kinda like punks. I was heated that they didn't show the Huron army. Also I didn't like the scene where Aragorn says "ride out with me" and they ride out with 20 or so dudes and kick all that Uruk arse. How tha hell did 20 riders take on so many orcs and not die? But I'm mainly mad about the Huron army.
billyboyd4ever
i got the impression that the elves were @ helm's deep in place of the rangers...but am i wrong?
pinksuezo
consarnit how many times do i have to repeat it?
pj sed havin rangers come in would b confusin to ordinary audience, and having humans-only in war of ring battles would not b good enough for movies, so yeah, the elves were a replacement for the rangers.
Shadowfax
i was wondering abt the elves, BUT I WANTED 2 NO MORE Y THEY MADE IT LUK LIKE ARAGORN DIED cos that wasnt in the buks n i was really shocked, but i think it was so that all the ppl hu knew wat was basically gonna happen ddnt get bored, BUT ID NEVA GET BORED IN LOTR
n e wayz
night_fire999
the elves were there coz otherwise the Rohirrim would have most definitely looked like they were going to die, and if they survived it would be a miracle, and it wouldn't look as good
Fire
the elves were just there because they are without a doubt the crowed favorite
that's the only reason
aniron
the elves were the allies, the last bit with the men of gondor was the final piece of help, gandalf brought them back to bring piece towards edoras and gondor, geesh ppl doesn't any1 take notice of whats goin on (no offence) lol
Fire
yea but this question was namely to se why the elves were their in the movie and not in the book
billyboyd4ever
+ i kno that, i was just saying thats why i thoguht the elves were there sheesh!
Fire
btw go Rex comparing LOTR tactics with AoE you're good mate but indeed archers made a difference
and when Haldir died, there wasn't enough blood
pinksuezo
sheeshsarnit!!!
Aragorn#1
You know what i dont get (stupid question) but Haldir was first seen (in fotr) in lothlorien with Galadriel but Elrond sent the elves to helms deep so was Haldir in rivendell or did Galadriel send some elves with him too or what the hell is going on???
pinksuezo
the elves r from lorien cus rivendell elves r leavin and not so powerful, and anyway in the books the humans of middle earth dont know of galadriel, but only of a magical dangerous forest, but they do know of elrond.
if there were elves from rivendell, i dunno, but maybe.
ugthebarbarian
They are probably from both Rivendell and Lothlorien. Galadriel said "Do WE leave Middle-earth to its fate?..."
GABRIEL05
I think they are only from Lorien, because Rivendell is too far away.
Aragorn#1
Ya but Haldir said " I brings word form Elrond from rivendall"so that means elrond sent the elves but Haldir is from Lothlorien
billyboyd4ever
i think it is a coalition but mainly comprised of elves from lorien
Fire
probably seeing as they are related
billyboyd4ever
haha yea that would make sense..
chica16
maybe elrond just wanted to make it look like it was all his idea hahaha
billyboyd4ever
yea...conceited little jerk!!! ahah jk
sammilicious
Halidar's death was a bit sad.. i had a bit of a teary moment in the cimena's.. like him and arogorn were mates..., but i also have a bit of a tear when the elves rocked up to Helm's deep... just kindof gave me hope that they all weren't gonna die real quickly.. i haven't gotten up to the bit in the book where he dies.. is it in the third book???
pinksuezo
sammilicious, haldir dont appear in books after the original appearance in lothlorien... the moviemakers changed a lot of things
billyboyd4ever
yea...he went off to the grey havens @ the beginning of the fellowship after helping frodo + sam + merry + pippin
shadow link
i think that pj well his writers anyway who filled in the gaps did a fantastic job of sort of summerising each section so it was right for the movie
no bit went totally away from the book so as to ruin the book.
even though every little detail wasnt included he still captured the different moods tolkein was trying and did create. thats the main thingi
shadow link
its alright for people to say which things were changed but theuy shouldnt say it ruined the movie and therefore pj did a bad job, sure its something to talk about but he had to change things so as to make it a good movie and no he didnt ruin any part of the movie by changing details from the books, the part with farimir is debatable but yeah
shadow link
not on the topic-are most of the people in these countries from Europe or USA coz im typing at night then then the next day all replies are in the afternoon previously in my time
i need to no exactly wats happening here
Orli'sElf7
lol yea the times are mad different...like it says its 5:03 am on ur last post..bt its 12:42pm here in the US...lol but yea i do agree...for not following the books ver batum..i still think it made for a pretty interesting movie. there still are some scenes that i wouldn't have minded seeing in the movies tho : /
sammilicious
billyboyd forever, merry and pippen didn't go to the west.. they both died in gondor, only frodo, bilbo, sam, gandalf, legalos and gimli pass to the grey havens
Corlindel
I hope JRR Tolkien does not have acess to see the movie in Valinor, because maybe he will send all the Valar and Maiar to fight their last battle against Peter Jackson's cast.
billyboyd4ever
um sweety woa youre really messed up there...1st of all i was talking about haldir who went to the grey havens, not merry + pip, and 2nd of all merry + pip DO NOT die in gondor, they go back to the shire!!!
sammilicious
ooh my bad.. whoopsies..totally misread that up there... but merry and pippen don't die in the shire.. they leave and do a bit of travelling and both of them are by theordin when he dies and they die soon after i think... well that's what it says in those huge are appendices at the end of the book.. man that was a read
billyboyd4ever
yea, but i thought you meant they died in the battle of pelannor fields/the last battle, thats why i was confused, but yea i think youre rit w/the whole appendix thing...
Exa
*LOL*
But (I think) Tolkien was human, so nobody knows if he's really in Valinor...
The arrival of the elves was one of my favourite scenes, yet I think it's stupid;
Though there were still some hundred elves left in Middle-earth, they were far too weak to do something like that; while the earth dies, they're fading away, and usually fading people don't fight
Exabyte
AWWWWWW
Owch, my posts back then were even more pointless than they're now
if that's possible... omg, that must've been one of my very first posts here... not even a week after I registered touched
hyper N00000000b hyper *shouts at self*
Elessea
Awwwww touched that's cute
No...your posts arn't pointless...they're fun...
And you're an adorable Noob...not a stupid one
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