Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/wowwiki/images/5/52/Dar%27khan-attack.jpg

How would Dar'Khan Drathir fare against the Nosgothian lord Kain? The battle take place at the Isle of Quel'Danas by the Sunwell and this would be Dar'Khan at his strongest against Kain as he's seen in Legacy.

Kain is severed from the Nosgothian source of power and only has his standard powers without infinite fuel. Durations and effects are limited to as they are encountered in the game, and Dar'Khan isn't allowed to absorb the Sunwell.
Dar'Khan is allowed to use the land of Quel'Danas in combat and Kain can't be effected by the necklace of Dar'Khan.

The reason I'm making this thread is because I think that Dar'Khan and Kain is roughly the same level of power. I think it would be the most even Kain Vs. Azerothian fight.

http://ui20.gamespot.com/1075/kain_2.jpg

ok nice to see an actual limit placed on Kains fuel to avoid the banter that goes backwards and forth about Kains magic source.

So Kain can do what? can he cast spells? can he use all his Nosgoth abilities yet their limited to the usage and durations shown in the gamepaly?

just want to get that straight.

Further questions are what has Dar'khan done exactley? what would you claim to be the move list that he would follow to stop Kain? whats stopping Kain from doing the ability i outlined recently in the Kain vs Demitri thread?

When has Dar'Khan done anything apart from getting his dumbass killed over and over again?

I'm currently gathering some feats. Might still take twenty minutes or so since I'm going to post pretty much all his feats at once.

gdgd

Dar'Khan is so much more than merely a dying dumbass. It wasn't for no reason that he posed a threat to two adult blue dragons and a band of heroes.


Teleport:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image017.jpg?t=1250292412

Energy Ball:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image004.jpg

Energy Sphere:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image006.jpg?t=1250292429

The ability to encase magic and release it:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image007.jpg?t=1250292445

Telekinesis:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image008.jpg?t=1250292529

Counterspell:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image011.jpg?t=1250292556

Personality- Calm as a summer breeze:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image015.jpg?t=1250292573

More than able to take on a blue dragon:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image016.jpg?t=1250292608

Anti-magic dome:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image017-1.jpg?t=1250292640

Illusionist:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image006-1.jpg?t=1250292661

Can filter magical auras (A.k.a track magic), which is the primary reason Arthas kept him in his ranks. Because of his strength in that particular area:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image009.jpg?t=1250292684

Reacted to an ambush and incoming throwing knife, utterly destroying the knife:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image012.jpg?t=1250292737

Harkyn Grymstone realised Dar'Khan as a Puppet Master. Shoots Dar'Khan in the chest with a blunderbuss.
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image013.jpg?t=1250292770

Dar'Khan proves that his body is more than mere elven, tanking Harkyn's gunfire and regenerates:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image015-1.jpg?t=1250292835

Dar'Khan cuts of airsupply:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image016-1.jpg?t=1250292897


Some of the feats I'm having problem uploading. This will have to do for now. I'll gladly explain anything you don't understand in any of the providen feats. I understand some accomplishment can be confusing if you aren't cunning in the Azerothian schools of magic and the various spells and magicians that can be encountered.

So how are they useful against Kain? most of these abilities sound fairly useless, especially reacting to the 200-300 millisecond teleport Kain can do to cut Dar'khan in half, their Tk seems similiar and most of his spells like the energy ones did not actually hit anything so their of unkown power. The only thing he can seem to do is detect that Kain is magical and perhaps hope to cut off Kains air supply

Dar'Khan gets incinerated:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image017-2.jpg?t=1250293453
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image019.jpg?t=1250293451

Dar'Khan returns some time later:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image024.jpg?t=1250293498
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image025.jpg?t=1250293513

Sleep:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image026.jpg?t=1250293531

Raises dead with a thought:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image006-2.jpg?t=1250293549

Once again proves why he's the top hunter for Arthas:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image013-1.jpg?t=1250293650

Dar'Khan begins showing his true power: His vast mind, when he's able to keep Anveena paralyzed while talking to Sylvanas and at the same time control Korialstrasz with his mind:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image008-1.jpg?t=1250293692
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image009-1.jpg?t=1250293752

Magic ensnare + Silence:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image001.jpg?t=1250293764

Magic shield:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image012-1.jpg?t=1250293785

Magic resistance:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image013-2.jpg?t=1250293798

Dar'Khan openly admit Krasus more powerful. He proves here that being more powerful doesn't necessarily protect you from Dar'Khan and his mindcontrol:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image014.jpg?t=1250293813

Senses a band of elven rangers and with but a thought, raises another undead army:
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image003.jpg?t=1250293919

Originally posted by Burning thought
So how are they useful against Kain? most of these abilities sound fairly useless, especially reacting to the 200-300 millisecond teleport Kain can do to cut Dar'khan in half, their Tk seems similiar and most of his spells like the energy ones did not actually hit anything so their of unkown power. The only thing he can seem to do is detect that Kain is magical and perhaps hope to cut off Kains air supply

An energy ball generally has the destructive power to shatter furniture (The Last Guardian), send grown men flying from the shockwave of it striking next to them (Rise of the Lich King) and generally has the ability to take out common beasts (Wolves and the likes).
Technically, the energy ball is merely an arcane blast in the form of focused magic.

As for Kain and his teleport, Dar'Khan has proven decent reactiontime (Him blocking the dagger being one) and is not much different from Kain in terms of reaction time. Even would Kain teleport and end up behind him with intent to strike, Dar'Khan still has a chance to react given how Kain has to both reappear and swing his blade before his attack will have taken any effect.
Given Dar'Khan being a prominent tracker of magic, he'd sense Kain the moment he appear behind him and react accordingly. As seen in his telekinesis feat, Kain can be sent flying with a thought.

We should not be forgetting the fact that Dar'Khan not only tanked actual blunderbuss rounds capable of damageing a dragon (I can get a scan of that as well), but regenerate from it immediately. A cut isn't deadly, and given how Dar'Khan showed that the blunderbuss didn't even penetrate his body, it would take a good amount of strength to properly cut him in half. Strength I have yet to see Kain manifest.

I have to agree with Rapidash. This fight could go either way. Dar'Khan doesn't have as many damage feats as Kain, but Dar'Khan is better at staying alive and his telekinesis is more potent.

Originally posted by Rapidash
An energy ball generally has the destructive power to shatter furniture (The Last Guardian), send grown men flying from the shockwave of it striking next to them (Rise of the Lich King) and generally has the ability to take out common beasts (Wolves and the likes).
Technically, the energy ball is merely an arcane blast in the form of focused magic.

As for Kain and his teleport, Dar'Khan has proven decent reactiontime (Him blocking the dagger being one) and is not much different from Kain in terms of reaction time. Even would Kain teleport and end up behind him with intent to strike, Dar'Khan still has a chance to react given how Kain has to both reappear and swing his blade before his attack will have taken any effect.
Given Dar'Khan being a prominent tracker of magic, he'd sense Kain the moment he appear behind him and react accordingly. As seen in his telekinesis feat, Kain can be sent flying with a thought.

We should not be forgetting the fact that Dar'Khan not only tanked actual blunderbuss rounds capable of damageing a dragon (I can get a scan of that as well), but regenerate from it immediately. A cut isn't deadly, and given how Dar'Khan showed that the blunderbuss didn't even penetrate his body, it would take a good amount of strength to properly cut him in half. Strength I have yet to see Kain manifest.

Well obvioulsy its useless then since damaging furntiture and wolves is not going to bother Kain.

Ive not seen all teh story about the dagger, youve shown me him stopping a dagger in the air but I dont know the distance that it was thrown, whether or not Dar'khan had some other advantage over the thrower such as knowing he was coming etc and yes Kain has to reapear but the moment he does Dar'khan is pretty much destroyed, theres no chance of him turning and using a spell effectively since kain strikes pretty much instantly as he appears. Maybe but with a thought? looking at his TK the guy gestures a lot with his hands and it may take a moment of concetration as well for all we know and dont forget Kain could do the same with his own Tk, as well as chain Khan in the air with telekinetic chains and to stop it all Kain would have to do is turn to mist.

Khan was definaltey damaged and perhaps dragons are not as resistant as you would first have me belive if a blunder bus, a fairly old and not necesserily deadly weapon can damage it, it would depend on the round and whether it was the same one that hit the dragon tht hit khan, can you show me the round exactley?

My bio shows that kind of strength and Kain does not need sterngth, his blade is sharp and has penetrated thick solid rock with ease and thats when its the blood reaver, a far far weaker weapon than the soul reaver. The blast looked more of a small explosion, not a direct damage attack like Kains sword, Khan would loose his body and his soul.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I have to agree with Rapidash. This fight could go either way. Dar'Khan doesn't have as many damage feats as Kain, but Dar'Khan is better at staying alive and his telekinesis is more potent.

Better at staying alive? TK more potent? Kain using repel shield and teleportation can keep himself from any and all things Khan could probably do to him and furthermore a quick mist could survive the rest and Khan has similiar TK, in the scan of Tk rapidash shows him tossing some men around, men far lighter by the looks of them than Kains targets.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Better at staying alive? TK more potent? Kain using repel shield and teleportation can keep himself from any and all things Khan could probably do to him and furthermore a quick mist could survive the rest and Khan has similiar TK, in the scan of Tk rapidash shows him tossing some men around, men far lighter by the looks of them than Kains targets.

What has Kain ever done that compare his telekinesis with that of Dar'Khan? The only feat I've ever seen brought up is him throwing that guy around in the room. Even if Kain doesn't have as light enemies, does those he throw around compare to the weight of four elves combined?

The link providen by Rapidash does not only show that Dar'Khan can throw people around with at least as much force, but also that it's done with a thought rather than with a gesture. To my memory, Kain require a gesture to use his telekinesis.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
What has Kain ever done that compare his telekinesis with that of Dar'Khan? The only feat I've ever seen brought up is him throwing that guy around in the room. Even if Kain doesn't have as light enemies, does those he throw around compare to the weight of four elves combined?

The link providen by Rapidash does not only show that Dar'Khan can throw people around with at least as much force, but also that it's done with a thought rather than with a gesture. To my memory, Kain require a gesture to use his telekinesis.

How do you know it was 4 elves combined? the scan is not as clear as all that, it could have been one at a time or a couple at a time, fact remains Kain can throw around fully armoured up soldiers, those lightly clad elves do not compare.

Its done through mental rather than a gesture you mean, as i said before a thought cannot be argued unless its stated, he could take concentration time or a moment of projected focus.

All irrelvent, its no use against Kain and Kain can do the same thing to khan....

Dar'Khan for a small hard fought win.

lol but how? by feats hes done very very little to even harm Kain, even if he has monstrous durability and is immune to kains nasty one hit defeating spells the guy may as well be flinging around a paper sword to try and destroy Kain.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Well obvioulsy its useless then since damaging furntiture and wolves is not going to bother Kain.

Ive not seen all teh story about the dagger, youve shown me him stopping a dagger in the air but I dont know the distance that it was thrown, whether or not Dar'khan had some other advantage over the thrower such as knowing he was coming etc and yes Kain has to reapear but the moment he does Dar'khan is pretty much destroyed, theres no chance of him turning and using a spell effectively since kain strikes pretty much instantly as he appears. Maybe but with a thought? looking at his TK the guy gestures a lot with his hands and it may take a moment of concetration as well for all we know and dont forget Kain could do the same with his own Tk, as well as chain Khan in the air with telekinetic chains and to stop it all Kain would have to do is turn to mist.

Khan was definaltey damaged and perhaps dragons are not as resistant as you would first have me belive if a blunder bus, a fairly old and not necesserily deadly weapon can damage it, it would depend on the round and whether it was the same one that hit the dragon tht hit khan, can you show me the round exactley?

My bio shows that kind of strength and Kain does not need sterngth, his blade is sharp and has penetrated thick solid rock with ease and thats when its the blood reaver, a far far weaker weapon than the soul reaver. The blast looked more of a small explosion, not a direct damage attack like Kains sword, Khan would loose his body and his soul.

http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image011-1.jpg?t=1250514764
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image012.jpg?t=1250292737

I'll have you take in consideration that his movement of the arm is drawn as a blur so the move is faster than initial glance might imply.
Dar'Khan didn't know he was coming, but as he turned around he noted the dagger and destroyed it. Given how incredibly strong the warrior that threw the dagger is, it did travel at a high speed.

Dar'Khan uses handgestures for various spells, but not all. Telekinesis is one example where he apply with thought rather than gesture and in Azeroth, that type of move is called "at will", which is a type of casting.
Dar'Khan has cast a protective spell as well as used telekinesis with a though. Kain require time to react and move as well and while fast, not fast enough to outspeed Dar'Khan. Assuming Dar'Khan isn't holding back and going all out, Kain will be countered by the time his blade would hit Dar'Khan.


Let's also add that there is a lot Dar'Khan can do that isn't included in the panels. He is an adept spellcaster of Azerothian calibur. While not on the same level of Krasus or Jaina, he does have a good amount of attack spells.

Not sure if its possible, but one way he could do it would be to telekinetically rip the Soul Reaver out of Kain's hands and hack him to death with it. I don't know whether it would kill him or not, but it seemed to work on Raziel. Plus apparantly the Soul Reaver is an uber-haxxed weapon.

Hes only tossed around people in light clothing by the looks of the scans, certainly not overpowered Kain who is at least a 30+ tonner, maybe more and besides Kain would be teleporting about so quickly it wouldnt be such an easy plan to just grip it out of Kains hands, and then to kill Kain with it? Kain only needs one of his soul spells or blood shower to kill Khan if in his undead form he requires blood and he likely needs a soul. Or he could possess Dar'Khan with his own soul anyway.

And using repel shield Kain could become effectively immune to Khans magic. Its an almost impossible task to kill Kain if your Khan, and probably nearly as difficult to keep alive.

And wat do you mean the Soul reaver is an uber haxxed weapon?

Kain is not class 30+.

Please have a look at blunder 4 in my bio, so far only part 1 of blunder 4 is relevent.

It steals souls, probably with as little as a scratch and can cut through boulders, that seems like a pretty powerful weapon to me. Plus I've seen you wax lyrically about how good it is. The only thing I don't know is whether it would be able to kill kill Kain (does he even have a soul?).

And Dar'Khan's tk just seems more powerful then Kains. He's shown throwing 3-4 elves around with visible ease (the weight of 3 people > an armoured knight), without even looking at them or slowing down. Kain always gestures to use tk, whereas his opponent doesn't even have to look at his target, so Dar'Khan will be able to use it faster and with more powerful effects. Add to that his shieldspell which is powerful enough not just to block a knife, but to liquidate it, and his exceedingly fast reflexes and I can see him taking whatever Kain throws at him, physical-wise.

Kains soul is arguably untouchable based on the fact its only locked to his body through his heart, yet his heart is torn out so its debatable whether or not anything can harm Kains soul if technically it should not be anchored or attached to his body, although I doubt in actual canon the Soul reaver taking Kains soul, in this debate he could probably.

But thats still not the same as pulling the sword from Kains grip and actally using it against him, Kain could just grab it back with TK if he felt so inclined but he does not need his sword to kill Khan.

One spell is all Kain needs, you can choose from incapaciate which is the time bolt to freeze khan, blood shower if he does indeed blood in his body or a soul attack.

I thought I'd show roughly how strong Jorad is. Jorad is the one that threw the dagger. I take it I don't have to elaborate how strong you have to be in order to break out of being frozen solid.

http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image013-3.jpg?t=1250600463
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/Rapidash_album/Image014-1.jpg?t=1250600475

Can you explain that to me please, it looks to me like a sorceror of some kind has a hand in it?

Also tbh I dont know how strong you would have to be, i guess first it depends on the thickness of the ice. staying alive within a block of ice without dieing of the cold is a fairly good feat however.

The one talking to Jorad is Krasus. The only thing Krasus does, which is done in a seperate panel, is that he remind Jorad that physical restrictions aren't as restricting for the likes of him that one would think it to be.

The ice is durable enough to keep a dragon frozen solid. Jorad was strong enough to shatter the same ice from the inside when he himself was frozen. What makes shattering ice from the inside so impressive is the fact that you have no momentum at all. You don't have room to tensify your muscles, you certainly don't have room to create force through speed. Ice and cold num muscles to a point where your body weaken and you end up no longer being at your peak.

Most importantly, as already mentioned, when you are frozen solid, there's no room for momentum. No momentum equal minimum to no force at all.

Originally posted by Rapidash
The one talking to Jorad is Krasus. The only thing Krasus does, which is done in a seperate panel, is that he remind Jorad that physical restrictions aren't as restricting for the likes of him that one would think it to be.

The ice is durable enough to keep a dragon frozen solid. Jorad was strong enough to shatter the same ice from the inside when he himself was frozen. What makes shattering ice from the inside so impressive is the fact that you have no momentum at all. You don't have room to tensify your muscles, you certainly don't have room to create force through speed. Ice and cold num muscles to a point where your body weaken and you end up no longer being at your peak.

Most importantly, as already mentioned, when you are frozen solid, there's no room for momentum. No momentum equal minimum to no force at all.

Although breaking out of ice with your whole body obviously is not the same strength requirements with throwing a knife, nor is it likely that the fact he broke out of ice contribute to how hard or how skilled he is at putting weight behind a balanced knife to strike a target. Even wizards such as Gandalf in lord of the rings can stop 3+ objects at high speed quite quickly and Gandalf is hardly one of the greater wizards in fiction.

Although still, that does not mean it helps him against Kain who could teleport-->strike--->teleport before Khan can bring upon him any worthwhile attack, it cannot be assumed he can bock every one especially when he does not know when kain will strike again.

You are basing your second paragraph on Kain being faster than Dar'Khan both physically and mentally. Let's not forget that Dar'Khan can teleport as well and is by no means a fool. And all Dar'Khan has to do, really, is react to the strike and make Kain's impale a glancing blow and he's all good.
Or teleport himself when Kain vanish.

Ive not seen how fast Khans teleport is from start to finish so I dont know how quickly he can appear, re-appear and actually fight from that angle. All Kain has to do is get some distance between them so he can cast the time reaver to slow time around them and teleport next to Khan, then obviously he is doomed.

I recently recalled this thread and I thought it worth a bump. In my opinion, this is the most even thread Kain has been in.

This guy is stronger than a lot of his opponents and actually has some variety in his attacks. What was your argument that declares this as even? what do you think Khan brings to the table?

I find his level of power and his knowledge in magic equal to Kain. The extent of both characters powers is fuzzy, but looking at the big picture, this is one of those battles that could go either way.

The battle hands on only a few aspects, the most important being speed and reaction times. Recent tests have found that Kain can percieve, react, strike and move in around 0.2 seconds. Khans reaction feat of stopping the knife is fairly ambigous however since I cannot see where the knife is coming from, the distance etc.

Dar'Khan for a small hard fought win.

Infact the latest strength estimate of Kain, hell even the lowest one would mean Tk will never hold him physically, his durability based on PSI means he would have to have thousands of tonnes of blunt force to come close to damaging his body and if Dar'Khan gets past that Kain can still pull him apart physically. Kain does not need to use magic in this fight.

1. You did your math wrong.
2. "Your math isn't canon!" durlaugh

Desperately trolling me in every thread is not going to stop your butt from being so sore you know? it wont actually make your lowly arguments correct either.

Pot, kettle, black.

So, I just finished the Sunwell trilogy, and I believe Dar'Khan is more powerful.

An interesting thing to see would be what would happen if Dar'Khan slipped one of his rings on Kain.