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I have so much confidence in dbz that I can pretty much use regular dragonball when goku was a teenager and I'm pretty sure you wont find feats comparable. Since this is an anime thread I'm using feats from ANIME only. I would love for you to do the same thing. You can use any character of your choice from the anime side and if you want to use marvel and dc, you can use comics from them or tv shows but with ANIME/MANGA, I would like to just see ANIME instead.

I'm going to put up two combat speed feats and next week I'm going to put up another one. I want someone to break my pride about dragonball showing me that people can fight faster. I dont care what kind of Mach speed they are going etc... show me someone fighting similar or better.

Scan 1: This is goku and tien fighting at blinding speed. They're not only fighting faster than the eye can see but they completely disappear for long periods of time, they vanish without reappearing. So this feat alone puts them far above the human eyes standard. Show me something similar or better.

Fast forward it to:

2 minutes and 8 seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nQu-42Lmvg&feature=related

The other feat is on the same

On this scene, goku turns into a live tornadoe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fGdq5W499c&feature=related

In the first chapter of Saint Seiya, Seiya literally throws like a dozen punches at lightspeed.

Your problem is that you use no standard for what you consider "comparable". You simply only care about style over substance. No matter what anyone posts, you will just say "sorry, not good enough" without explaining why, other than it doesn't impress you enough, based on subjective judgements.

I have a challenge for you:

Take one of these speed feats and use physics and mathematics to calculate it. Otherwise you've got nothing.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Your problem is that you use no standard for what you consider "comparable". You simply only care about style over substance. No matter what anyone posts, you will just say "sorry, not good enough" without explaining why, other than it doesn't impress you enough, based on subjective judgements.

I have a challenge for you:

Take one of these speed feats and use physics and mathematics to calculate it. Otherwise you've got nothing.

The problem with you is that you use physics and mathematics for a comic. By using your standard everyone in marvel can move light speed.

The writer doesnt write EVERYTHING off as a light speed attack, they just set the character at one spot for the plot of the story.

Can you show something similar or not?

Except to base the speed on something there has to be some number put to it to even hope to find something as fast or fast. Sped lines, or moving faster than somebody can see doesn't say anything at all except that they are moving fast than the human eye can follow.

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/Kento300/?action=view&current=getbackers_vol05_089_byaaah.jpg
http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/Kento300/?action=view&current=getbackers_vol05_090_byaaah.jpg

That's a good speed feat but there isn't anyway to know how fast he moves. He just moves faster than the guy can comprehend. Gai's done the same thing and Ban is much faster than Gai....even Haku has done the same thing. And Gokou has and we all know Gokou is faster than Haku. But they are all drawn or animated the same way with no real way to tell the actual speed its done at.

To make a better speed challenge you need something with more substance that you can attach a speed to.

Samurai Deeper Kyo has so many speed feats too. such as...

http://www.onemanga.com/Samurai_Deeper_Kyo/47/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Samurai_Deeper_Kyo/47/11/
http://www.onemanga.com/Samurai_Deeper_Kyo/47/12/
http://www.onemanga.com/Samurai_Deeper_Kyo/47/13/

And many more.

Originally posted by carver9
The problem with you is that you use physics and mathematics for a comic. By using your standard everyone in marvel can move light speed.

The writer doesnt write EVERYTHING off as a light speed attack, they just set the character at one spot for the plot of the story.

Can you show something similar or not?

Yup you got him.

Originally posted by carver9
The problem with you is that you use physics and mathematics for a comic. By using your standard everyone in marvel can move light speed.

Of course not. Only the ones who have shown the ability to move lightspeed.



Of course. When did I say otherwise?



Again, depends on your criteria for "similar". What standards are you using to judge, other than your own subjective interpretation of the artwork?

Yup you got him.

Stop cheerleading and actually debate, or get out.

He is asking for a challenge without setting up the rules in the first place.

It's like saying "Hey, I bet you can't beat me at this game if I just make the rules up as I go along"?

I ask again, what criteria does he use to judge which feats are better or not? All of his arguments boil down to "this looks really fast because of the art style".

Give me something quantifiable.

Yeh DBZ is FTL

ANy proof there?

Originally posted by Peterlane
Yeh DBZ is FTL I assume you have some evidence to back your baseless claim up?

Well I suppose he is technically correct. They do have spaceships that are FTL, and teleportation techniques that are technically FTL.

Shut up Mike. estahuh

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Your problem is that you use no standard for what you consider "comparable". You simply only care about style over substance. No matter what anyone posts, you will just say "sorry, not good enough" without explaining why, other than it doesn't impress you enough, based on subjective judgements.

I have a challenge for you:

Take one of these speed feats and use physics and mathematics to calculate it. Otherwise you've got nothing.

You want to know your problem, you dont accept anime feats on a anime forum. This forum isnt based only off of the manga, this is an anime/manga forum so you cant throw things that is presented to you from dbz out of the door if its shown from the anime because you dont like it.

When they make this a straight manga thread THEN you can do that but if I present a scan from the anime and what I said was shown in the anime then you need to show me something better from the anime or a manga comic that beats my scan.

Dragon ball z anime is accepted here, deal with it.

Originally posted by carver9
You want to know your problem, you dont accept anime feats on a anime forum. This forum isnt based only off of the manga, this is an anime/manga forum so you cant throw things that is presented to you from dbz out of the door if its shown from the anime because you dont like it.

When they make this a straight manga thread THEN you can do that but if I present a scan from the anime and what I said was shown in the anime then you need to show me something better from the anime or a manga comic that beats my scan.

Dragon ball z anime is accepted here, deal with it. That has nothing to do with what you quoted....He says you can't prove how fast they are going so the challenge is moot...and you come back with the anime is accepted??

Originally posted by Kento
Except to base the speed on something there has to be some number put to it to even hope to find something as fast or fast. Sped lines, or moving faster than somebody can see doesn't say anything at all except that they are moving fast than the human eye can follow.

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/Kento300/?action=view&current=getbackers_vol05_089_byaaah.jpg
http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/Kento300/?action=view&current=getbackers_vol05_090_byaaah.jpg

That's a good speed feat but there isn't anyway to know how fast he moves. He just moves faster than the guy can comprehend. Gai's done the same thing and Ban is much faster than Gai....even Haku has done the same thing. And Gokou has and we all know Gokou is faster than Haku. But they are all drawn or animated the same way with no real way to tell the actual speed its done at.

To make a better speed challenge you need something with more substance that you can attach a speed to.

What I showed you was completely different than what you just showed. Goku and tien were invisible the entire time, there was no sign of there bodies during part of the fight, it wasnt just a wink out and wink back in, they were gone. Thats faster than the human eyes.

I get everything that you said but it didnt help your case.

Originally posted by Kento
That has nothing to do with what you quoted....He says you can't prove how fast they are going so the challenge is moot...and you come back with the anime is accepted??

LOL, I said that to endless mike for a reason. He throws anime feats out of the window from dbz all the time.

Originally posted by carver9
What I showed you was completely different than what you just showed. Goku and tien were invisible the entire time, there was no sign of there bodies during part of the fight, it wasnt just a wink out and wink back in, they were gone. Thats faster than the human eyes.

I get everything that you said but it didnt help your case. Oh that wasn't trying to prove faster at all. Just making a point.

What would you say trumps that feat? Gokou dodging without appearing to move? Something like that? Or what? Because somebody can put a feat up that they would assume faster but there isn't any guarantee that you would except it. So an idea would be better on something you'd accept as faster.

The next challenge. I call this the dodging feat. Nappa is dodging punches from 3 picollos and 3 krillins that is moving at super speed without being touched. Can someone provide something comparable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04PcNOgiTWo&feature=related

Fast forward it to 1 minute and 30 seconds.

Originally posted by Kento
Oh that wasn't trying to prove faster at all. Just making a point.

What would you say trumps that feat? Gokou dodging without appearing to move? Something like that? Or what? Because somebody can put a feat up that they would assume faster but there isn't any guarantee that you would except it. So an idea would be better on something you'd accept as faster.

There are plenty of feats that are faster. Almost everything goku did while fighting the ginyu force was faster. Answer this, the feat that you put up, do you think it was faster or as fast as what goku did and if so can you please tell me why so that I wont discredit it?

Originally posted by carver9
There are plenty of feats that are faster. Almost everything goku did while fighting the ginyu force was faster. Answer this, the feat that you put up, do you think it was faster or as fast as what goku did and if so can you please tell me why so that I wont discredit it? It's pretty much the same. Disappearing from view of normal humans. Just Piccolo and Tien do it for a longer period of time because Ban was dealing with a lackey.

Edit - Er I mean Gokou and Tien...not Piccolo

Originally posted by carver9
You want to know your problem, you dont accept anime feats on a anime forum. This forum isnt based only off of the manga, this is an anime/manga forum so you cant throw things that is presented to you from dbz out of the door if its shown from the anime because you dont like it.

We use the original sources unless specified otherwise. Not non-canon adaptations.



Except no.

And again, you're not providing any criteria for judgement here. Simply saying "show me something more impressive" is impossible if you don't define what standards you use to judge "impressive".

* in YuYu Hakusho, in a boat upon going to the Dark Tournament, Hiei attacked Yusuke and they sparred faster than normal eyes can see... they only stopped when Yusuke managed to catch and clip Hiei's sword between his two fingers...

* also, the battle between Sensui and a resurrected Yusuke in the Makai world is kinda Dragonball-ish...

* in Rurouni Kenshin... in Shishio arc, battle between Kenshin and Sugiro, the heartless boy...

Originally posted by peejayd
* also, the battle between Sensui and a resurrected Yusuke in the Makai world is kinda Dragonball-ish...
Yeah... That was a rather weird, yet anti-climactic way to wrap up the Chapter Black saga.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
We use the original sources unless specified otherwise. Not non-canon adaptations.



Except no.

And again, you're not providing any criteria for judgement here. Simply saying "show me something more impressive" is impossible if you don't define what standards you use to judge "impressive".

Why isnt it accepted here? Anime and Manga has the same source but it also have some differences. Again, this is an anime thread, anime feats are accepted here even if you dont like it.

This is a anime vs forum, not a anime (except if its not shown in the manga) vs forum. You need to ask the mod to make a manga forum for you so that you can discredit all anime feats because again, anime is accepted here.

Now show me some proof that tells us that all anime feats arent acceptede here.

Originally posted by peejayd
* in YuYu Hakusho, in a boat upon going to the Dark Tournament, Hiei attacked Yusuke and they sparred faster than normal eyes can see... they only stopped when Yusuke managed to catch and clip Hiei's sword between his two fingers...

* also, the battle between Sensui and a resurrected Yusuke in the Makai world is kinda Dragonball-ish...

* in Rurouni Kenshin... in Shishio arc, battle between Kenshin and Sugiro, the heartless boy...

Can you post a link please, I want to see this.

I also posted the dodging feat. Do you have anything comparable?

Not sure about speed, but I know no DBZ character could beat the final robot from Gurren Lagaan.

Actually Tengen toppa gurren lagann is much faster than any Z fighter given that it can move it's limbs at millions of times the speed light and leap between galaxies.

Then there's Super Tengen toppa gurren lagann from the second movie who's even bigger.



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mDeEtq1IRR8/SiFbyqIgDeI/AAAAAAAAA-c/iQa7-O1LS2o/s400/Super%2BTengen%2BToppa%2BGurren%2BLagann.jpg

That black area in its head is Tengen toppa gurren lagann.

Originally posted by carver9
Why isnt it accepted here? Anime and Manga has the same source but it also have some differences. Again, this is an anime thread, anime feats are accepted here even if you dont like it.

Since you're the OP, you can say that, fine, but just know that in general the original source is used, not non-canon adaptations.



Sorry, no. If the anime is the original/canon work, it is accepted. However usually the manga is the original/canon work.



No Non-canon Sources
Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

A canon source is one that is regarded as being 'in continuity'. In the example of Star Trek; instances from the series and movies can be used, but books are definitely out. Comic book crossovers are usually unusable as they ignore common sense most of the time (DC vs. Marvel is certainly unusable in some cases in our debates!).

This includes JLA/Avengers. Canon or not, people just aren't going to agree on it in most cases. Besides, there should be plenty of other comics with which to make your point.

This principle extends to characters with multiple versions, alternate timelines, etc. Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed.

A mod confirmed earlier on in the Superman forum that these rules apply to all vs debates on KMC forums.

Saint Seiya characters are faster then DBZGT fighters. In the manga it was mention they where moving beyond light years of speed in a matter minutes worth.

I would post some scans later since this site does not let me post more then one images once I'm more well known to the site.

Originally posted by carver9
Can you post a link please, I want to see this.

I also posted the dodging feat. Do you have anything comparable?

* i have none... i'll try to find it in youtube...

The DBZ feats shown are very impressive at all

Shush, this thread is no place for logic

^lol.it seems ur right
Originally posted by Naija boy
The DBZ feats shown are very impressive at all

Just in case i was misunderstood by some I meant to say they arent very impressive.

I figured as much.

They look flashy, which is all Carver cares about.

He also has no idea how fast light actually is.