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Sorry if this exact fight has been done before but I'm a noob to the forums and looking through ALL of the fights is just a little too much of a task right now.

Anyway, the fight is the four most powerful Jedi from the Clone Wars versus the four most powerful (known) Sith from the Old Republic. The fight is all out between sabers and Force skills and there are no restrictions save one. Nihilus' drain game is fun for all to be sure. And we could argue alllllll day about whether his opponents would be powerful enough to stop it or not. So for argument's sake I'm declaring right now that he can't use it. We don't know enough about it at all. Does it work on everyone except the Exile? Does it not work on the Exile because she was severed from the Force? One-shot fights are no fun anyway.

Okay, so you can have them fighting whoever you want to but I would assume Yoda would fight Nihilus, Mace would fight Revan, Obi-Wan would fight Malak, and Anakin would fight Sion. Just my opinion but you guys can do whatever you want to. Have fun XD

Oh and P.S. This is every one of them at their strongest. Jedi from ROTS...Revan and Malak from the end of KOTOR...Nihilus and Sion from the end of KOTOR II.

Jedi take this if it's ROTS anakin. mace takes revan due to vapaad. yoda beats nihilus because nihilus has no notable saber feats. and anakin should be able to beat sion. kenobi beats malak.

Wrong.

Originally posted by Craju Kenobi
Sorry if this exact fight has been done before but I'm a noob to the forums and looking through ALL of the fights is just a little too much of a task right now.

Anyway, the fight is the four most powerful Jedi from the Clone Wars versus the four most powerful (known) Sith from the Old Republic. The fight is all out between sabers and Force skills and there are no restrictions save one. Nihilus' drain game is fun for all to be sure. And we could argue alllllll day about whether his opponents would be powerful enough to stop it or not. So for argument's sake I'm declaring right now that he can't use it. We don't know enough about it at all. Does it work on everyone except the Exile? Does it not work on the Exile because she was severed from the Force? One-shot fights are no fun anyway.

Okay, so you can have them fighting whoever you want to but I would assume Yoda would fight Nihilus, Mace would fight Revan, Obi-Wan would fight Malak, and Anakin would fight Sion. Just my opinion but you guys can do whatever you want to. Have fun XD

Oh and P.S. This is every one of them at their strongest. Jedi from ROTS...Revan and Malak from the end of KOTOR...Nihilus and Sion from the end of KOTOR II. Three of the most powerful Jedi of the most powerful generation of any Jedi accompanied by the master of defensive lightsaber fighting VS. The Captains of Ambiguity.

Nuh-Uh.

By Old Republic, I was referring to KOTOR timeframe Old Republic. I guess I should have specified. Though still, the only one I see coming close to matching Revan or Nihilus' strength is Bane. Sion can't die until he wants to - or you obliterate it his every cell so he can't regenerate and Malak... Okay, well Malak is far from the strongest but you catch the general idea.

I agree though Bayhunter. And it it s ROTS Anakin.

Oh and by the way Nemesis, you should explain something further than just saying "Wrong." It doesn't help to validate your statement.

Darth Sidious?

I hear that a lot Lucien. I realize that the games give little to go on for the EXACT power levels of the Force Users but it isn't so bad as to say no one can ever argue their strength. It DOES give feats (Nihilus pulling his battleship out of the Mass Shadow Generator, Revan defeating countless foes in lightsaber combat, etc...)

Some of the members here make it seem like just because it wasn't in a book or movie that the levels of power can't possibly be justified as accurate. Why? I'm just failing to understand why everyone seems so reluctant to debate game characters... Kyle Katarn started off in a game and look where he is. lol

From the Old Republic 66. Sidious would OWN Revan and Nihilus one-on-one. DE Sidious maybe even at the same time. XD

Originally posted by Craju Kenobi Nihilus pulling his battleship out of the Mass Shadow Generator
yes.

no. We have no proof that Revan defeated a single foe in lightsaber combat. In fact, you just said it was true, i challenge you, PROVE IT.



Power levels, fine. Combat levels, NO. We can't prove anything about the combat prowess of Darth Revan. Try. The invitation is still open.



Kyle Katarn's game was accompanied by books. As was Starkiller's.

Had I tried to validate the statement then this might have been a valid point. As it is you just look silly.

Here is 'validation': You asserted that Revan, Malak, Nihilus, and Sion were knowns. They are not. Malak certainly isn't, Revan is not, nor is Sion. While the KotOR comics might change this, at this point we do not know enough to use these characters (especially Malak and Sion) in VS. battles. N. is the only one I'd feel comfortable using at all.




The problem is that we know so little about them. The only measure we have to evaluate them is subjective, non-canon gameplay. (Revan is the worst, if only because of the volume of ambiguous feats to his name.)

Originally posted by Craju Kenobi
I hear that a lot Lucien. I realize that the games give little to go on for the EXACT power levels of the Force Users but it isn't so bad as to say no one can ever argue their strength. It DOES give feats (Nihilus pulling his battleship out of the Mass Shadow Generator, Revan defeating countless foes in lightsaber combat, etc...) The trouble is, how powerful were these countless foes? Were they really, really good? Or were they just crappy and mediocre? Or some level in between? How powerful was Yusanis, or Mandalore, or Malak? Just how good were they if you were to compare them, to say, Anakin Skywalker?


THAT'S what we don't know. We know they did stuff just not the manner in which they did it, or how difficult it was for them. You get morons and fanboys like S_W_Legend and Kotor3 arguing that being charismatic or winning a war is somehow an accurate gauge of one's specific and detailed abilities in regards to lightsaber combat or telekinesis. They're not. That's why books and guides are brilliant, they tell us HOW much trouble they had, WHAT they actual did, WHY they did it. They detail to us reaction times, saber styles, levels of knowledge and power.

KotOR has NONE of those things, and it's the absence of such canonical details that render it's characters as Unknowns, something several simpletons in here don't understand.

Okay, I'm going to try and redirect all of this self-appointed hatred away from myself, lol.

So Revan didn't defeat anyone in lightsaber combat? Who are you in the game then? Malak especially since you fight him ALONE. It's stated numerous times he defeated Madalore the Ultimate. It may have been unarmed combat but he probably used a lightsaber. Either way, notable feat. Revan defeating the leader of well...basically the Spartans of the Star Wars universe is giving a lot of steam to his combat prowess.

The Kyle Katarn thing was meant to be a joke hence the lol.

What would be a valid point? Me telling you to say more than wrong? Okay, then do it from now on. Anyway, to validate something is to authenticate it. To authenticate something is to prove its certainty. Saying "wong" means nothing and is worth nothing toward your point. You didn't prove or confirm anything.

Anyway, about the gameplay... There is some level of canon to all games and when they are made into books or comic books, this proves to be true. All of Starkiller's and Kyle's powers are maintained from their games to their respective book adaptations. This would obviously be true for Revan as well.

Anyway, let me get back on target here. I hate it when these threads turn into a giant pointless debate so far diverged from the actual topic that they become mindless dribble. ASSUMING ALL of the Sith have their abilities (save Nihilus' brain drain) that they had in their games and defeated ALL of their opponents respectively, and even that ALL of the stories about them were true. Who would win now?

I'm sorry if I'm making enemies already on this board. I'm seriously not meaning to. Lol, it's only my second day. I'd like to avoid the hate mail until at least my third day. But anyway, I'm to blame for this thread getting off subject anyway so...

I completely agree with you Lucien. We don't KNOW for certain how powerful any of the characters are in comparison to the more recent Jedi. But I wanted that to be the point of this versus thread. I mean, we don't really know how strong Plo Koon is to Ben Skywalker either but we'll still do the fight.

All we have to go on is what we know from the character's backgrounds: their triumphs, their failures, whatever. Just because they're from a game doesn't make them any worse than if they were from the movie. Movie characters are just easier to decipher.

I realize it's laid out for you in books and guides but use your imagination. These are just opinions. They don't have to be right. You won't be stoned if you're not. Personally, I place Revan just below Dooku and Mace. Malak, way further down. That's just me.

Originally posted by Craju Kenobi
I completely agree with you Lucien. We don't KNOW for certain how powerful any of the characters are in comparison to the more recent Jedi. But I wanted that to be the point of this versus thread. I mean, we don't really know how strong Plo Koon is to Ben Skywalker either but we'll still do the fight. Becasue they never met, yes. But characters like these are given detailed accounts as to what they can do. They also are compared to, and interact with, characters who meet characters. Get me?

All we have to go on is what we know from the character's backgrounds: their triumphs, their failures, whatever. Just because they're from a game doesn't make them any worse than if they were from the movie. Movie characters are just easier to decipher. Much, much more so, given the level of details and story surrounding them.

I understand and that's fine. If you want to debate it you can and if not, you don't have to. For those who do though, just express your personal opinions. Use your imaginations.

If Sion can't die, then how does the jedi team take this? In terms of sheer skill, I think team 1 has it, but being invincible sure counts for something.

Originally posted by Craju Kenobi
I understand and that's fine. If you want to debate it you can and if not, you don't have to. For those who do though, just express your personal opinions. Use your imaginations. Welcome to KMC's Star Wars forums. Here in the Versus, we follow canon. Our imaginations, opinions, and preferences come 4th, 3rd, and 2nd, respectively to canon and logic.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
If Sion can't die, then how does the jedi team take this? In terms of sheer skill, I think team 1 has it, but being invincible sure counts for something. I was just thinking that, that is his only feat. Looking like a burntout woodfire.

Originally posted by Craju Kenobi
Okay, I'm going to try and redirect all of this self-appointed hatred away from myself, lol.


No one hates you. Being a brand new member, i'm not surprised that you haven't thought this one through before.


It can't be proven that he used a lightsaber to kill a single opponent. Mines, grenades, blasters, all of these and more could have been used.



First, there is no proof that Revan used a lightsaber, only that he defeated him. Second, how do you know Malak was powerful?


We have no way of proving how competent Mandalore was in combat.



Prove it.


We have no idea how this fight went. Perhaps Revan was taking instant-heal med packs all the way through the fight? Perhaps Revan went into stealth mode, and snuck around laying mines all the way around Mandalore? That is something that he would never be able to do against a force sensitive. Maybe Mandalore accidently stabbed himself? The point is, we just can't know.



k. Then maybe you would like to present an actual example where we allow someone without a single verifiable achievement to be used in a versus forum?

Which you can't do with KOTOR characters.


You put three unknowns as some of the most powerful sith in the history of the galaxy. Nemesis hardly has to prove anything to say that statement was wrong.



True, and the second this happens for KOTOR, we can use Revan in any thread you want. I would never argue with you in that instance.



Not so much. Look at it this way. In Jedi Knight, I killed Desann with a lightning blast. I force-choked Tavion and threw her over the edge of the chasm where they fought. This did not make these fight outcomes necessarily true. Now i don't think JK 3 was actually made into a book? But if it was, the manner in which i killed Tavion or Desann might have been contradicted. Kyle might have done it with a lightsaber. He might have done it with a blaster or explosives. We just don't know. So we can't put Kyle's lightsaber skills as better than Desann's if Kyle walked up behind Desann and shot him in the head. Does this make sense? Same works for Revan. Maybe Revan used explosives to win every fight. If so, great, its still an accomplishment, but its kinda hard to say that Revan is a better lightsaber duelist than.... ANYONE if he never won a fight with one.


How would you even know?



You still haven't answered a question for me: How did Revan kill his opponents? And what opponents did Nihilus kill without his drain? And what opponents did Sion kill?

Assuming all the things you want us to assume still leaves us with zero information to debate combat.


No one is making you an enemy. Learn. Be open to logic. Don't stubbornly cling to your original viewpoint simply because you want it to be true.

Enjoy KMC.

Listen to me, listen. I abandon this argument okay? Like I said, if you do want to debate the ACTUAL fight than you can do so. If not, then don't. It's simple. Draw from all of the canon source you can and when that's exhausted (and obviously it will be) use your imaginations. If you don't want to then don't post. This is simple.

If you want me to admit I was wrong then I'm wrong fine. But don't argue about THIS anymore. I'm interested to see what people think if they WERE to fight. What they THINK, not necessarily what would happen. XD

I really hope this is the last time I have to say this, lol.

This is still completely wrong. LOOK at what you wrote:

You say that I should explain my assertion. This is a valid point.

You then say that my assertion ("wrong" does nothing to 'help to validate statement.' Do you see why this is silly? My assertion was that you were incorrect in your statement. I conveniently highlighted the portion in the my quote of your sentence so that you would be able to tell what, specifically, I thought was wrong. That was all I posted. Nowhere did I post anything that would qualify as an attempt to validate anything (until the next post). So saying that it is ineffective at supporting a statement is absolute nonsense.

This is why you looked silly and did not have a valid point. There was nothing to aim the point at.


I killed Malak with dual pistols. For the final blow I got out my lightsaber and hit him with it.




Kyle and Starkiller had books substantiating their powers. Revan does not. Unless you can see the future and have read the KotOR book then you don't know that he has .

What is canon in KotOR is not enough to decide upon his combat prowess.


The characters you seem to want to discuss are not part of the Star wars canon continuity. We may as well be discussing how Elmo would fare against my RP character Trask.

Ahhhh, read my previous post please.

I realize everyone wants to be right and has a reputation to uphold but please, please stop arguing this. EVERYTHING any of you say I accept as me being wrong. Now you can leave happy. You win! lol

Now like I said, anyone want to debate this fight go ahead.

Originally posted by Craju Kenobi
I realize everyone wants to be right and has a reputation to uphold but please, please stop arguing this. EVERYTHING any of you say I accept as me being wrong. Now you can leave happy. You win! lol Buddy, saying something like this doesn't win you friends and respect. I recognize your meaning and where you're coming from, but just be careful with the (unintentional, I'm sure) insinuations.

But that just degenerates to "MY IMAGINATION IS BETTER THAN YOURS" and I don't think that would be any superior to an off-topic funfest. Not even a little.

Also: Don't call him buddy, guy!

Oh trust me, none of this is for friends, lol. I really could care less. I'm on this board for my own purposes. I just want the pointless arguing to end. If it can't, I obviously need to find another board to do what I need to do.

Why can't he call me buddy? XD

Cause I'm not you're buddy, guy.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Cause I'm not you're buddy, guy.
I'm not your guy, friend!

1. Why can't we be friends?
2. What is it that needs to be done on a Star Wars forum, exactly?
3. He's not your friend, buddy!

I guess I'll continue with... I'm not your buddy, dude! XD

I'm not saying we can't be friends, I'm just saying that I'm not overly trying to make any here. And nothing HAS to be done in a Star Wars forum. I just need something done that I need the fan's pov for. That's why I wanted the pointless argument to end and the debate for the fight (also possibly considered pointless, lol) to begin.

okay then. IMO (opinion only) Yoda speed rushes Nihilus, Sion, and Malak, then fights a short duel with revan before driving his lightsaber all the way through Revan's eyeball.

Meanwhile, Anakin and Obi-wan play blackjack. Obi-wan wins because Anakin keeps going bust.

Alright, just a few pointers. I'm not attacking you, I'm helping you.

Originally posted by Craju Kenobi
Sorry if this exact fight has been done before but I'm a noob to the forums and looking through ALL of the fights is just a little too much of a task right now.

You can use the 'search' button. It's somewhere at the the top, you can't miss it. You pick Advanced Search, then Advanced Option, mark Search titles only and Show results as threads, fill in the names of who you think about using and voila!

Originally posted by Craju Kenobi
I understand and that's fine. If you want to debate it you can and if not, you don't have to. For those who do though, just express your personal opinions. Use your imaginations.

What Lucien said, this entire versus forum is based on the idea that we do not let our imaginations run wild and express our personal idea's. Canon is first, logic is second and subjectivity is the last number.

Originally posted by Craju Kenobi
Oh trust me, none of this is for friends, lol. I really could care less. I'm on this board for my own purposes. I just want the pointless arguing to end. If it can't, I obviously need to find another board to do what I need to do.

That's exactly the reason why we don't use unknowns in Versus threads, because the arguing would be pointless and in circles. 'Debating' about this actual topic will make people have headaches. So don't start threads with unknowns in them. Maybe you're right though, if you want people to give their on take on how a fight would go without having to explain themselves, you should find another board.

Btw, we are not trying to make you look bad and prove you're wrong, we're trying to make clear how we debate around here.

I think that the dark side wins here. Although Malak isn't notably good for anything he could be the diversion. Darth sion would go after the hardest opponent (mace or yoda) since he can't die anyways. Then send Revan against the next most powerful because Revan has more notable feats than Malak. Nihilus against Obi because Nihilus is stronger in the force and has a more offensive fighting style. That leave malak to fight anakin. Dark Side wins!

P.S. I like how you continue to defend your position whether their are unknowns or not. That is the point of debat right? debating the unknowns and then coming up with the most logical conclusion. That happens alot in life. You have several unknowns but you have to take the info. that you DO have and make the most logical conclusion! That is what I did above! Hope this helps Craju Kenobi!!

You have several unknowns but you have to take the info.

If we go with this then:

Yoda takes N and stalemates- his broader knowledge of the Force allows him to keep up with the mammoth TK N has available

Mace takes Revan, using Vapaad to capitalize on Revan's (rumored) strength in the Force.

Kenobi meets Sion, providing him a brick wall against which to spend his fury. Sion will not be able to breech his defenses- he's no Grievous.

Anakin is > Malak. (Who has no feats to put him in an upper tier, let alone even with Skywalker.) This frees him up to go help Mace with Revan.

The two then proceed to tear Sion to shreds. (Amputations will quickly overwhelm his regen capability?) The four then proceed to N, which could go either way. It depends upon how one interprets the gigadrain.

But True, what's Mace doing? XD

I truly do appreciate what you said Jamefril and that's exactly what I'm trying to accomplish here. Unknowns or no, I'd still like to include them in the forum. I did think that was the point of a debate too. Thank you so much.

Nemesis that was excellent, thank you. A very well thought out and detailed explanation of exactly how the fight might go. I tend to agree one hundred percent. Great fight, even with unknowns.

I appreciate the criticism Slash and if I have to find another board I will. But the posts above tell me that based on the logic given, people CAN use their imaginations to tell them who wins what fight, even with unknowns presented.

But even without unknowns, isn't the entire point of a versus thread to use your imaginations and make opinionated statements? Given, they should be based on evidence but what it still comes down to is that the fights cannot be proven either way. None of the characters in the threads actually fight in canon (maybe a few?) so we don't know for sure who would win. I just think it's a pity to not use a character just because we don't think we know enough about him. Some of the deepest characters come from the games, Revan for example.

Hell, people were matching Starkiller up with Yoda and Sidious when they saw the first trailer, even before th game came out.
"He brings down a ******** star destroyer. Trumps anything Yoda ever did!"
Not to say that this is right or wrong - true or untrue, I'm just saying. It's fun to debate the unknowns because they're just that. Sometimes when you put everything on paper and figure it out to its fullest, it becomes a little less amazing (to me anyway). Maybe the mods on here should make a purely Unknown based versus forum, if you guys don't want it here so much. Just something to think about...

Originally posted by Craju Kenobi
It's fun to debate the unknowns because they're just that. Many of us have been here for a few years now, and what fun there was in discussing the Unknowns has since died out. Despite the frequent off-topic posts, when we actually do debate, we use canon first and foremost. If you're looking for a forum that applies imagination and preference to a debate on an equal scale to official canon, this isn't the place.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Many of us have been here for a few years now, and what fun there was in discussing the Unknowns has since died out. Despite the frequent off-topic posts, when we actually do debate, we use canon first and foremost. If you're looking for a forum that applies imagination and preference to a debate on an equal scale to official canon, this isn't the place.


why isn't this the place? Those of us who have just started still have the right to enjoy the fun of debating the unknowns. While you veterans lend your superior knowledge when and where you can!

Originally posted by Jamefril
why isn't this the place? Those of us who have just started still have the right to enjoy the fun of debating the unknowns. While you veterans lend your superior knowledge when and where you can! That fun will be shortlived.

Originally posted by mattatom
That fun will be shortlived.

Why? Because it was for you? Or are you too stuck on whats canon and whats not?!

Originally posted by Jamefril
Why? Because it was for you? Or are you too stuck on whats canon and whats not?! I've been here for around to years now, no because it was for most of us. Yes Lucien's been around for two years longer than I. Yet the trolls and flamers still live on and the ambiguosy of canon drains whatever enthusiasm for the Star Wars universe you have left.

The power hungry people on this forum seeking what? What can be achieved by pointing out people errors and mistakes? If we are to be mistaken do not tell us so! Honestly, what if I started talking about Archery and you knew nothing and I then pointed out your flaws? how would that make you feel?

Originally posted by mattatom
I've been here for around to years now, no because it was for most of us. Yes Lucien's been around for two years longer than I. Yet the trolls and flamers still live on and the ambiguosy of canon drains whatever enthusiasm for the Star Wars universe you have left.


then why worry about canon? Star Wars was created by imagination, so continue using imagination to play out fights, canon or no!

Originally posted by Jamefril
then why worry about canon? Star Wars was created by imagination, so continue using imagination to play out fights, canon or no! Then your spirit will be ground to dust by canon Nazi's like Beefy.

This is one of those cases that you sound so much more wise when you don't talk.

Originally posted by mattatom
Then your spirit will be ground to dust by canon Nazi's like Beefy.

If my spirit was ground to dust, it would not be by Star Wars or canon, but by people like you who continue to post on Star Wars forums after claiming that it has drained your Star Wars spirit!

The unknowns are what make Star Wars exciting, what could have happened instead of what did!

Think about it!

Originally posted by Evilbigfoot
The power hungry people on this forum seeking what? What can be achieved by pointing out people errors and mistakes? If we are to be mistaken do not tell us so! Honestly, what if I started talking about Archery and you knew nothing and I then pointed out your flaws? how would that make you feel? Personally I'd feel like a jackass. Here I am talking about something like I'm an expert, when really I'm just blowing hot air. I would condone you putting me in my place after my display of unjustified arrogance.

Enjoy our freedom while it lasts Jame, the big red ugly won't be too far behind.

Originally posted by Jamefril
The unknowns are what make Star Wars exciting, what could have happened instead of what did! So, that would be KotoR... the Ancient Sith... ummm...



...




How many Ewoks it takes to screw in a lightbulb...


All the Unknowns I can think of. Huh. You said it'd be exciting. You lied!

Ha Lucien that document I Sent you? I just quoted part of it in a different thread. I lol'd. Hahaha Jame it hasn't drained my spirit. It's just a warning.

you are most ignorant lucien...i comend you for having such courage on a computer...but on the inside your a small little nerd that hasn't come out of the closet yet.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
So, that would be KotoR... the Ancient Sith... ummm...



...




How many Ewoks it takes to screw in a lightbulb...


All the Unknowns I can think of. Huh. You said it'd be exciting. You lied!

Have you read and posted on any of the other topics on this forum besides this one?

Because if you have then you would see that every topic on this forum is unknown! Otherwise it wouldn't be any fun to debate. They all have some jedi against some sith that never actually fought eachother, that is unknown. They also have people that did fight each other with different circumstances. That is also unknown. Every forum you posted on is unknown. Otherwise is would be the same thing that happened in the movie, book, or game. And why debate the same exact thing without unknowns???

Originally posted by Evilbigfoot
you are most ignorant lucien...i comend you for having such courage on a computer...but on the inside your a small little nerd that hasn't come out of the closet yet. Said the pot to the kettle.

Originally posted by Jamefril
Have you read and posted on any of the other topics on this forum besides this one?

Because if you have then you would see that every topic on this forum is unknown! Otherwise it wouldn't be any fun to debate. They all have some jedi against some sith that never actually fought eachother, that is unknown. They also have people that did fight each other with different circumstances. That is also unknown. Every forum you posted on is unknown. Otherwise is would be the same thing that happened in the movie, book, or game. And why debate the same exact thing without unknowns??? You don't know the definition of an Unknow, do you?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You don't know the definition of an Unknow, do you?

I'm sure I do, but what is SO BAD about using an unknown character in a topic debate?

Please tell me and if it is a good reason I will apologize to you and everyone else.

Originally posted by Jamefril
I'm sure I do, but what is SO BAD about using an unknown character in a topic debate?

Please tell me and if it is a good reason I will apologize to you and everyone else. From the Forum Rules, second thread down with Note beside it:

"No fights using Unknowns. Unknowns are characters that we have had too little or no evidence of their powers, abilities, or skills. This applies to characters that have not had screen-time, or characters who only show their powers in gameplay. Unknowns include Darth Plagueis and Marka Ragnos, most notably."



To extrapolate, Unknowns are characters like these two and their ilk, along with KotOR characters who's undefined powers and skills are just that: undefined. Gameplay mechanics such as choosing what powers Revan has, how he fights his battles--all non-canon. Likewise, as we don't know how powerful any of these characters are in relation to the eras in the mythos we DO know (the PT and OT especially), we can't use their accomplishments as gauges when we compare them with other characters from other eras. For example: Would Revan defeat Darth Vader? We don't know, because while Vader as a plethora of defined feats and abilitites, Revan doesn't. All KotOR characters receive most of their know powers and limitations from individual gameplay, and seeing as how canon is NOT subject to the whims of millions of different choices... we get the Unknown.

Originally posted by Jamefril
I'm sure I do, but what is SO BAD about using an unknown character in a topic debate?

Please tell me and if it is a good reason I will apologize to you and everyone else.
So all fights with unknowns in will effect the fight directly but we cannot say how in either for or against.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
From the Forum Rules, second thread down with Note beside it:

"No fights using Unknowns. Unknowns are characters that we have had too little or no evidence of their powers, abilities, or skills. This applies to characters that have not had screen-time, or characters who only show their powers in gameplay. Unknowns include Darth Plagueis and Marka Ragnos, most notably."


Owned.

See, you are really starting to annoy me, you are obviously contradicting the rules of these forums and if you do not like these rules then get the f*ck off.

Srsly, the point of debating is so you can build arguments on facts and logic. If you're using your freakin' imagination, you're not debating but you're making a fanfiction. I don't know why this simple concept is so hard to grasp.

Originally posted by Evilbigfoot
The power hungry people on this forum seeking what? What can be achieved by pointing out people errors and mistakes? If we are to be mistaken do not tell us so! Honestly, what if I started talking about Archery and you knew nothing and I then pointed out your flaws? how would that make you feel?

i'd feel like i learned something.

Are you really asking to remain ignorant? Sorry, not gonna happen. If you post things that aren't true, expect us to correct it.

I have to wonder if this was aimed at me, and whether or not the mind that combined these English words in such a way thought it was clever in any way, shape or form. I sincerely hope not.


This is the definition of Fanfiction. You seem to want to be able to write fiction without all the originality and skill required to do so. This is the kind of parasitism that makes smart people want to believe Ayn Rand, and it dismays me to see it here.

To put it in words you can understand:
NO




We have a few options when it comes to determining upon an interpretation of this post. Some are less damning to the poster than others, but none are complimentary.
1. It is quite possible that the writer does not actually know the meaning of the word 'ignorant' (which would be sufficiently ironic to sooth my ire).
2. It is equally possible that the poster is aware that ignorant has a negative connotation but does not know proper usage. (This is distinct from the first option in that the intent remains the same, obfuscated only by incompetence.)
3. The user account may well be meant as a joke; it strains credulity that an individual in possession of so feeble a mind would be able to navigate the intricacies of the Internet, let alone operate a keyboard beyond the rudimentary input of an age and credit card number.
4. This option, like the one preceding it, focuses on a holistic analysis of the post: This approach suggests that the user is at or below KMC's mandatory age of 13. The bungled contraction and absence of even rudimentary conventional punctuation, when considered in conjunction with the idea, implicit in its use as a concluding insult, that homosexuality is a shameful personality trait.
5. The strange synthesis of the Internet toughguy persona with the (socially instilled?) unconscious homophobia suggests a latent homosexuality, desperately compensated for with posturing and (failed) attempts at intimidation- especially of those in positions of perceived authority.


I have to wonder, was this post intended to be clever as well?





This is an example of the level of irony which must be attained to avert a(n overt) negative reaction.

SCIENCE!

Wow, I can't believe this is still going on...

I'm not writing a fanfiction. I stopped when I was twelve. Anyway, if it's going to cause this much controversy than seriously forget it. Someone just needs to delete this thread because it's brewing a lot of animosity. Everyone seriously needs to just stop. All ANY of you are doing now is insulting one another and that just needs to stop. No one's proving a point anymore, it's just the same stuff over and over again. Everyone's beginning to just sound like Dino from The Flintstones, lol.

Anyway, I'm sorry to the other junior members who did want unknown fights to happen. But it's so obviously not going to. If I happen to come across a better board that allows such fights than I'll come back and let you guys know. Otherwise, I'm pretty much done here. I'd say it was fun while it lasted but... XD

Oh and this entire site is a result of IMAGINATION. No matter what you say, you can't disprove that. It's what makes human beings grow and prosper. I'm not saying a fight between Revan and Obi-Wan would make any of us grow in any way, it'd just be fun to mull over lol. I really am disappointed with the board as a whole but what can you do, right?

Anyway, if someone does have the power to delete this thread, please do so. I'm tired of being the reason people are wasting their lives away arguing pointless garbage. Any more time spent arguing it would simply be even more of a waste.

Originally posted by Craju Kenobi
Wow, I can't believe this is still going on...

Wow I can't believe how much better than everyone you are!


Your own words suggest otherwise:












It is abundantly clear that you would rather make up scenarios and outcomes than examine and compare the evidence that Lucasarts has provided as canon. These scenarios are directly comparable to fanfiction.


You realize that the underlined portion is against forum rules?


It is rare to find a fundie in regards to the purpose of a star wars site, but what do you know? We have one here! (Fundies tend not to be willing to look at evidence and are identified by their adamant conviction to one viewpoint in the face of evidence.)

Also: This site is the result of the imagination of a group of people whose work aligns nearly enough with the owner of the universe in question to be considered compatible: canon. There is a reason we stick to 'authorized' books, and it is that GL has some say in the content, no matter how small. That makes it valid. Your fanfictions wouldn't be valid in the least (unless you are GL in which case I apologize a lot).



Wow if you were any more superior to us then you'd have to clear your browsing history lest it is discovered you visited such a terrible place!


Srsly. You know how to delete cookies too? I can help you with that.

get out.

This is rather funny... I am litteraly laughing in real life at how stupid some people are...

Lmao, didn't think that last reply would promote anything positive. But no worries. You guys have fun forever debating the pointless arguments you come up with against those who want to have some fun. Way to tear them down guys! XD

Against site rules? Yes, I do care so much - so much that I'll say it again. If I DO find a better board, I'll let those who care, know about it. Not on this name, probably another because this one will be deleted by then I'm sure. And then that one might be deleted but who cares, right?

Also, George Lucas (me, I guess) has stated numerous times that he doesn't consider the Expanded Universe apart of his original idea. Only the six films are in his (mine? lol) opinion canon. Anyway, he's done more work on the games than he ever has a book or comic book series. KOTOR and the Force Unleashed mainly, lmao.

As for your fundie comment, name calling Lois...really? I tried to be civil and no I don't think I'm better than any of you. I just can't believe you won't let the people who want to argue this kind of debate do so. It's obviously not going to happen though so I'm ending it. Have fun arguing to a brick wall after I leave because I'm sure you'll respond to this regardless of me being here or not.

P.S. Go ahead and delete the account if you can. I won't be using it anymore. Do you need a reason to? ****ity **** **** fuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccckkkkk! Will that work? lol. I really didn't mean that in an insulting way. Just hope it helps in giving you the satisfaction of deleting someone who opposes the almighty power of the versus forum! XDDD

Sorry snapple...

so this means that you wont be posting anymore right?

yaaaaayyyyy!

You would think that senior members (with the exception of 1) get paid to do this, or do you?

i dont really care if he leaves or not he doesnt bother me at all. i just feel factitious today.

How very incredibly accurate!

Also:

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
so this means that you wont be posting anymore right?

yaaaaayyyyy!

I never said that...

crylaugh

Originally posted by Evilbigfoot
I am a poopyface

I am sorry you feel that way about yourself: sometimes the flawless level of self-awareness you clearly possess can be a burden.

Originally posted by Evilbigfoot
Also, I am very sorry for all of the ridiculous things I said, and for wasting the time of the good and wise members of this forum. I humbly ask for your forgiveness, and promise to do better.


okay... since you put it so nicely, i'll give you a pass this once.

You are very imature. I bet you think your hot shit. Don't you?

opps spelling error "immature"

I think my hot shit? I'm sorry, I don't understand incompetent.

you're whatever...

Red, let me tell you. You ARE Hot Shit. everyone knows it. EvilBigFoot is just jealous. I think it is funny that he bothered to put: "I never said that..." I enjoyed that very much.

What would I be jealous about? I'm simply doing this for my amusement.

o.0

sorry, you have the standard-issue-NOOB1 sarcasm detector that they give all the jr. members. you will need to upgrade it at some point.

Originally posted by Evilbigfoot
What would I be jealous about? I'm simply doing this for my amusement.

Well you are amusing me.

Your clever comebacks are just too good:

by saying "you're whatever" I was correcting a grammar mistake, not insulting anyone with a teenage girl remark.

Originally posted by Evilbigfoot
by saying "you're whatever" I was correcting a grammar mistake, not insulting anyone with a teenage girl remark.

Then you should have said: "You're. Whatever."

Just to avoid the confusion.

i'm just gonna say, you respond to everything we say like you are a teenage girl.

Thank you slash for not being so brash about correcting me.

You have my respect.

truejedi, your comments mean nothing to me

he told you!

Yeah! Take that TJ's self esteem!


Foot, I think you'd better apologize! You might've hurt his feelings!

It wasn't meant to be an insult...if it insulted you you have a very weak spirit.

And now you're calling him weak?

BURN!

Well, I have more important things to do.

man Red, I don't know where to go from here. I may just leave KMC. It isn't worth it anymore. The abuse gets to you after awhile, you know? People say such.... MEAN THINGS!!!!!

The "weak" as in mental health not physical.

Ah, I love sarcasm.

HOW DARE YOU CALL HIM CRAZY?!?!?!?!`/1?!?!?!?!/1/!!?!1/!?1/!1/!/1!?!?!!??????///1?!


WTF IS THE MATTER WITH YOU?!?!?1/1/?!/1/!??1/1/`1/1/~/1//1//1?/1/!/1??!?!/1?/!/1/!?/!?1!?!??11?1?!/

Originally posted by truejedi
man Red, I don't know where to go from here. I may just leave KMC. It isn't worth it anymore. The abuse gets to you after awhile, you know? People say such.... MEAN THINGS!!!!!

i think your only option at this point is to just kill yourself.

Evilbigfoot?
Reported.
Marvel?
Reported.
TJ?
Reported.


not.

YES! Red's got my back!! and... Marvel thinks I should off myself. This is kinda a toss-up i guess. At least I have EBF. We are BFF's.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis


Evilbigfoot?
Reported.
Marvel?
Reported.
TJ?
Reported.


not.

Dude, I've reported you so many times now, but those mods seem to be well, dead.

Red reported me. I think i will go do as Marvel suggests...

hang

Now, before you all start posting abscene and rather dispicable posts about me, let me apologize.

I am SO VERY sorry for stepping on your pride. (hands back broken pieces). I didn't know that you were the rulers of this forum, which you seem to consider yours, but I agree with Craju Kenobi 100%. Why does this forum "BAN" imagination?
No matter what you say, ALL OF STAR WARS STARTED AS IMAGINATION!!! It still is. So why can't we use our imagination to finish off fights?????
Also, how could you fall to the point of posting quotes in other's names?
Thats as bad as forging a check!
Did Evilbigfoot step on your pride as well? Did he hurt your feelings?
Did he invade your turf? DID I????
Why are all the senior members out to get the junior members for having fun? You do realize that this is still a free country? Which means that the internet is for public use. AS ARE THESE FORUMS!! I know the rules and regulations. BUT WHY? Why is using unknowns to the best of OUR ability bad?

Truly though, I am sorry for "breaking the rules." To whomever this last statement concerns, I AM SORRY!

As for the rest of you senior members, I'm sorry to you too. (This includes Red Nemesis) I didn't realize that you acctually kept such strict rules here. Sorry.

Originally posted by Jamefril
Now, before you all start posting abscene and rather dispicable posts about me, let me apologize.

I am SO VERY sorry for stepping on your pride. (hands back broken pieces). I didn't know that you were the rulers of this forum, which you seem to consider yours, but I agree with Craju Kenobi 100%. Why does this forum "BAN" imagination?
No matter what you say, ALL OF STAR WARS STARTED AS IMAGINATION!!! It still is. So why can't we use our imagination to finish off fights?????
Also, how could you fall to the point of posting quotes in other's names?
Thats as bad as forging a check!
Did Evilbigfoot step on your pride as well? Did he hurt your feelings?
Did he invade your turf? DID I????
Why are all the senior members out to get the junior members for having fun? You do realize that this is still a free country? Which means that the internet is for public use. AS ARE THESE FORUMS!! I know the rules and regulations. BUT WHY? Why is using unknowns to the best of OUR ability bad?

Truly though, I am sorry for "breaking the rules." To whomever this last statement concerns, I AM SORRY!

As for the rest of you senior members, I'm sorry to you too. (This includes Red Nemesis) I didn't realize that you acctually kept such strict rules here. Sorry.

*Adds abscene and dispicable post.*

Red Nemesis, can I ask you a more personal question?
Do you find enjoyment in tearing people down, or do you do it thinking that you are actually helping them?
No insult meant, just a question.

Sorry Slash, I wasn't directing that towards you. You actually were usually nice about things. I hope I haven't insulted you!

Yes, Slash is indeed a decent guy.

Originally posted by Jamefril
Now, before you all start posting abscene and rather dispicable posts about me, let me apologize.
*obscene
*despicable

Apology accep- wait, I'd better make sure this is genuine. It's not like anyone would ever say something they didn't mean, right?


This is called being passive-aggressive. Do not continue.



See above. Your opinion is not canon. Your thoughts are not canon. There is an objective standard to compare to.
Why is using unknowns to the best of OUR ability bad?
Despite your (comical) caps lock usage elsewhere I will give you the explanation *once* more.




Your opinions are not canon. Nor are your 'imaginations.'




This is the end of my patience.

I'm a helper.

All hail the Canon god?

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I'm a helper.

He is. Just not better than I am.

I won't do it... I will not correct....ahahahah...a senior members grammar!

I already fixed it before you posted.

pwnt.

I don't think that is a word Red.

A bit of a long winded answer Red Nemesis. Here's my logic and to me it is canon. I WILL continue using unknowns and my imagination on this forum until I am banned! Should I care what you think? You can stick to your, ohh so precious rules and regulations all you want. I came on this forum to have fun, not argue with "big, red ugly."

GO SPACE YOURSELF!!!

see, You don't take time to read the rules, and then you get nasty. and then you get nasty that we get nasty. Why? Well, because you didn't take time to read the rules. imagine that.

Originally posted by truejedi
see, You don't take time to read the rules, and then you get nasty. and then you get nasty that we get nasty. Why? Well, because you didn't take time to read the rules. imagine that.

You are saying?

Originally posted by Jamefril
A bit of a long winded answer Red Nemesis. Here's my logic and to me it is canon. I WILL continue using unknowns and my imagination on this forum until I am banned! Should I care what you think? You can stick to your, ohh so precious rules and regulations all you want. I came on this forum to have fun, not argue with "big, red ugly."

GO SPACE YOURSELF!!! Do you happen to be S_w_legend cracker?

I thought you were going to be smart and leave, like Marvel suggested.
I did read the rules, but they don't make for a fun forum.
I already tried to be nice, but you guys spat in my face. Should I spit in yours? Or should I let you spit in mine again?

what would you do truejedi, if you were in my position and mindset?
leaving is not an option and I want an honest answer.

yes, i am?

ok cracker.

Originally posted by Jamefril
I thought you were going to be smart and leave, like Marvel suggested.
I did read the rules, but they don't make for a fun forum.
I already tried to be nice, but you guys spat in my face. Should I spit in yours? Or should I let you spit in mine again?

what would you do truejedi, if you were in my position and mindset?
leaving is not an option and I want an honest answer. I'd sodomise you.

Originally posted by Jamefril
I thought you were going to be smart and leave, like Marvel suggested.
I did read the rules, but they don't make for a fun forum.
I already tried to be nice, but you guys spat in my face. Should I spit in yours? Or should I let you spit in mine again?

what would you do truejedi, if you were in my position and mindset?
leaving is not an option and I want an honest answer.

I'll ask you this: I just went all the way back through this thread, and can't find one post that i addressed to you, or where i responded to one of yours. So what the heck are you talking about?

I know, I'm asking you because you give honest answers.

Well, then I would disagree that i spat in your face.

I was nasty with EvilBigFoot because he started out nasty and got nastier.

If (hypothetically) your face was spat in, I, as a new member would just leave and find nicer people. I would try to figure out what I had done to offend everyone so much, and if someone took time (like Red did) to post exactly what taboo's I had broken, I would thank him for it.

Fact is, we have fun arguing Star Wars canonically. It means we are wrong sometimes. Not everyone you meet here will admit they have ever been wrong, but at some point, everyone here has.
I for one generally admit when this is so. If someone can use their imagination to make an excuse for everything that happens in star wars, the entire forum degenerates to "The guy that I like is better than the guy you like." And it truly is immature at that point. (Not to claim a lot of maturity in a star wars forum, but at least we generally approach these things with a sense of logic.)

Proving what we have to say does mean a lot here. If you can't do that, or don't like to, then probably another forum probably would be best for you. That is what we do here. If you don't like to have to give supporting statements for your ideas, you will never be taken seriously. Not because we don't like you personally, or we want to police the forum, but because that is what we expect of ourselves, and we see no reason to expect less from you.

What TJ said.

All right! I apologize! This time sincerely. I broke the rules of this forum. I have not been a model member by any means. I was wrong, you all were right. I had no right to carry on this argument or to throw insults at anyone.
Nemesis- I'm sorry I called you big red ugly and said your answer was long winded- you were right.
slash- I'm sorry that you got insulted for nothing, you are a helper and a good one
truejedi-I'm sorry that I got nasty, I was wrong and out of line, there was no reason to insult you in any way
craju kenobi-im sorry about what i did to your topic(if you're still here)

I want to thank Nemesis for pointing out to me what I was doing wrong.
I also want to thank truejedi for pointing out that I was getting nasty, if anything it was I who did the spitting not anyone else. Also for giving me an honest answer even though I isulted him.

If you all want me to leave, I will. But, if you will still have me, I will agree to use canon at all times and not post anything that can't be proven by canon. I also will not disagree with what a helper or senior member says unless I can prove them wrong using canon and posting a URL adress as to where I aquired the information.
Once again, I am sorry.
P.S. if i forgot anyone I am sorry to you too.

Its cool dude, just please don't be like that S_w_legend guy.

yeah, its fine. there is a bit of a learning curve to this forum. Everybody here went through it at one time or another.

I remember mine.

And did someone call me mean? Me? *sob* Please say you won't tell nobody. I'd be so embarrassed, I'm just absolutely terrified that someone's gonna find out why I'm saying all these terrible, evil and awful mean things, it's my own insecurity!

I watched her make the most powerful men just crawl on they're knees, begging for mercy... That girl ain't no joke... I love the way she roll... Especially when she working going up and down that poll.... Cause she's a professional, and she'll stick you up without a weapon... I know she so cold... If you don't know she'll rob you for your silver and gold... gold... gold... She'll take it and go... go... go