Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

1. Saber
2. Force
3. All Out

This will be tough. Maul would probably take this, but with many injuries.

I'm thinking Maul wipes the floor with her. Then he takes out his lightsaber, turns it on for the first time, and cuts her into itty bitty pieces.

assaj wins 6/10 in all three.

bring on the shit storm.

Maul win 9/10 All 3.

(no storm, just a contradiction with as many facts to back it up as yours did!)

I think Maul wins this, but it's very close. Asajj is no slouch. Maul probably wins, given than even injured he effectively beat Qui-gon and Obi-wan, but Asajj has some impressive performances under her belt too. I think Maul, with his superior training and better athleticism gets the win.

Well Dooku tooled Ventress, but I highly doubt that he could tool Maul.

what kind of logic is that?

ventress has much better feats in more abundance. mauls only claim to fame is beating anoon banderas and qui-gon jin both of whom would be considered low tier duelists by the time of the clone wars. assaj effortlessly tooled kenobi and kti fitso at the same time only a few months before kit fisto whooped grievous ass. she also almost killed anakin in a duel less then six months before he killed count dooku.

seriously. hes no match for her. it will be a difficult fight every time but assaj will definitely take the majority.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel


mauls only claim to fame is beating anoon banderas and qui-gon jin both of whom would be considered low tier duelists by the time of the clone wars.



Qui Gon Jinn was one of the greatest duelists in the jedi order's HISTORY. It is said that he could duel Mace Windu to a draw, although Windu wasn't at his peak at that time. Low tier? So you're saying that he's below average?

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
what kind of logic is that?

ventress has much better feats in more abundance. mauls only claim to fame is beating anoon banderas and qui-gon jin both of whom would be considered low tier duelists by the time of the clone wars. assaj effortlessly tooled kenobi and kti fitso at the same time only a few months before kit fisto whooped grievous ass. she also almost killed anakin in a duel less then six months before he killed count dooku.

seriously. hes no match for her. it will be a difficult fight every time but assaj will definitely take the majority.

What makes you think qui-gon jinn is a low tier duelist when during an all out sparring match mace windu, the same guy who tooled sidious in a duel couldn't break through qui gons defences?

And stop acting like ventress beating anakin actually means anything considering that in ROTS when eh achieved a clarity of mind he made a joke of dooku(the same dooku that constantly smashes ventress in a saber duel).

what???? Assaji got HUMILIATED by Kenobi in the CLone Wars. She can't get owned like that and keep any cred. He was laughing at her in the middle of a duel. She got owned.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
What makes you think qui-gon jinn is a low tier duelist when during an all out sparring match mace windu, the same guy who tooled sidious in a duel couldn't break through qui gons defences?

first off i want to see the passage that specifically states that mace couldnt penetrate his defenses. second its generally assumed here that anoon banderas is uber and ive heard better then quigon. so if anoon "humbled himself" when fighting mace and yoda, meaning he wasn't on their level, what makes you think that quigon was?

and seriously the mace that "tooled" sideous had fifteen years to refine and perfect his technique. thats 15 years mace as of TPM didnt have. id say theres a large distinction in power between mace as of RotS and mace as of TPM.



why would i not act like thats a big deal? what are you trying to say? anakin wasn't an impressive duelist before that? anakin was considered one of the best before the events of return of the sith transpired. he was considered a prodigy by the others of the temple before RotS as well.

unless you want to argue that he was only considered a prodigy for a couple of days, as thats how long it was before the temple was destroyed in RotS?

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
first off i want to see the passage that specifically states that mace couldnt penetrate his defenses. second its generally assumed here that anoon banderas is uber and ive heard better then quigon. so if anoon "humbled himself" when fighting mace and yoda, meaning he wasn't on their level, what makes you think that quigon was?

Ironic, funny how you actually believe that anoon is better than qui gon when your so overly fond of saying quotes = jack unless he actually showed us feats.

Maybe its because mace couldn't penetrate qui gon's defences which is what actually made him at least close to their level.

Now i don't have the exact sources and in this case i have no choice but to use wookiepedia(which in this case is far more credible than you are).

In addition to his mastery of the Force, Qui-Gon was also a master in Form IV: Ataru, often having sparred with Master Mace Windu; it is said that neither actually managed to outduel the other
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel

and seriously the mace that "tooled" sideous had fifteen years to refine and perfect his technique. thats 15 years mace as of TPM didnt have. id say theres a large distinction in power between mace as of RotS and mace as of TPM.
I can say the same for yoda who had seven hundred years to refine his lightsaber skills and refine his technique but could he defeat darth sidious? Simple answer: no.



Originally posted by Ms.Marvel

why would i not act like thats a big deal? what are you trying to say?
Because unlike the duel on the invisible hand, anakin was not a a clarity state of mind or he would have destroyed ventress in half the time that he did to dooku?

Did you ever read the ROTS novel? Then why do you act like yout "zeh!! l0gic t!ger" and then the next moment your a kitten?
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel

anakin wasn't an impressive duelist before that? anakin was considered one of the best before the events of return of the sith transpired. he was considered a prodigy by the others of the temple before RotS as well.

unless you want to argue that he was only considered a prodigy for a couple of days, as thats how long it was before the temple was destroyed in RotS? Read the above.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Ironic, funny how you actually believe that anoon is better than qui gon when your so overly fond of saying quotes = jack unless he actually showed us feats.

i didnt say i believe that. i said that that is what people on this forum generally believe.




the sheer fact that it says "it is said" means that it isnt an actual fact and is heresay.




but i would say that yoda was probably a better fighter at 899 years old then he was at 898 years old. but i dont really see what him losing to sideous has to do with anything. sideous would kill assaj and maul at the same time probably and the only reason mace beat him was because his style, vapaad,was tailor-made to fight people like sideous. vapaad+shatterpoint is pretty much any dark siders natural enemy.



but none of this contradicts anything ive said. anakin in that state of mind would olbiterate anyone in the pt except for sideous mace and yoda. so... yeah. when he isnt in that state I.E. the majority of the time hes still considered to be one of best duelists of the era. so its still a good feat and it still tops anything maul has done no matter how you look at it.


ultimately. how does any of the things youve said point to maul being a better duelist then assaj?

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel



ultimately. how does any of the things youve said point to maul being a better duelist then assaj?
Let me repeat it for the world ms marvel, learn to read.
Where exactly did i say maul was a better duelist than assaji? where did i even imply maul was a better duelist than assaji?


I'll concede the rest of the points, i don't really have anything to argue other than the fact that qui gon isn't a below average duelist.

alright then. im sorry for misunderstanding your stance in the thread.

No problem. But i am never going to argue anything for maul or quigon until i have the source material.

I don't want more misunderstandings and then things blow out of proportions(like zeh s_w_legend).

Qui Gon is one of the greatest jedi every produced by the order. He may not be as strong as some of the greats, but he is way, way, way, way, way above the average master and is therefore not "low tier".

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Qui Gon is one of the greatest jedi every produced by the order.

out of curiosity where was this stated?




yeah he is low-tier by the time of the clone wars he is low-tier. what did he do in his lifetime that would put him on the level of non-low tier people as of RotS? What feats does he have that puts him that makes him that good?

Ms. Marvel, you didn't reply to my post. Assajji got HUMILIATED by Obi-Wan. He was laughing at her in the middle of her duel. She showed herself then as a laughable opponent to top tier duelists, which Maul is.

i didnt see it.


Originally posted by truejedi
what???? Assaji got HUMILIATED by Kenobi in the CLone Wars. She can't get owned like that and keep any cred. He was laughing at her in the middle of a duel. She got owned.

yeah she got owned by him. and then she fought him and kit fisto and humiliated both of them at the same time without getting touched once. hm...

maul isnt a top-tier opponent. not by the time of RotS he isnt.

can u post the source for this "humiliation" please?

Cestus Deception.

no, no, the text por favor. I read it, i don't remember Asaaji humiliating anybody. I could be wrong, but i will need to see the text to admit error.

i dont have it with me sorry.

its all good. My one source that I actually factually have is the CLone wars cartoon then. And Obi just made Assaji look silly.

mmm

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
What makes you think qui-gon jinn is a low tier duelist when during an all out sparring match mace windu, the same guy who tooled sidious in a duel couldn't break through qui gons defences?

And stop acting like ventress beating anakin actually means anything considering that in ROTS when eh achieved a clarity of mind he made a joke of dooku(the same dooku that constantly smashes ventress in a saber duel).

Qui-Gon is strong, but he wasn't alive when Mace created Vaapad, the style he used to defeat Sidious.

And Anakin can advance quickly in 6 months.

Originally posted by Anakin4Ever
Qui-Gon is strong, but he wasn't alive when Mace created Vaapad, the style he used to defeat Sidious.

And Anakin can advance quickly in 6 months.

Wow, you have got to be one of the most biased guys on here. When did Mace create Vaapad? And why must Luke suck after four years of training yet Anakin can "advance quickly in 6 months."

that is funny, i wasn't aware that mace created vaapad after TPM.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
And why must Luke suck after four years of training yet Anakin can "advance quickly in 6 months." Because Anakin forever!

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
out of curiosity where was this stated?




yeah he is low-tier by the time of the clone wars he is low-tier. what did he do in his lifetime that would put him on the level of non-low tier people as of RotS? What feats does he have that puts him that makes him that good?

It's called logic. If he can fight Mace Windu to a draw and trained Obi Wan Kenobi, plus he managed to retain his consciousness after death, then he is definitely great.

By low tier you are saying that he's below the average master, as in the average, nameless random masters in the order? It was stated that Qui Gon would've been on the JEDI COUNCIL had it not been for his maverick attitude. Jedi on the high jedi council aren't "low tier".

Yoda himself says that Qui Gonn was a great Jedi.

"A very great Jedi Master you always were, but too blind I was to see it."

Pg. 410. ROTS.

Don't forget, Yoda became the apprentice of this guy.

yeah. he was a great philosopher. or maybe its a great fighter. thats the thing about "great". there are many things you can be great at and not one of them has to be combat.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
yeah. he was a great philosopher. or maybe its a great fighter. thats the thing about "great". there are many things you can be great at and not one of them has to be combat.

Kinda the problem with using the "Golden Age" of the Jedi argument as proof of their superiority in combat...

i agree. people need to stop relying on quotes and statements to serve as proof of someones strength. the only thing that matters is actual accomplishments and feats imo.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
i agree. people need to stop relying on quotes and statements to serve as proof of someones strength. the only thing that matters is actual accomplishments and feats imo. In real life, yes. But in Fiction----in where the abilities, feats, and all around happenings of the Universe are reliant solely on the statements and descriptions of real-word authors----it's different.

technically youre right.

palpatine didnt think ventree to be worthy of the name sith yet made maul his apprentace that should tell u something right there. and there is no way qui-gon is a low tier duelest. the only reason he lost to maul was because he was around 70 and exausted. he was even all sweaty and out of breath even after meditating inbetween those dividers midway through.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
In real life, yes. But in Fiction----in where the abilities, feats, and all around happenings of the Universe are reliant solely on the statements and descriptions of real-word authors----it's different.

That's just a difference in interpretation, then. I think what Lucas put in the movies is the all-ruling canon. What he says on his own time though, doesn't weigh to heavily with me. That's true for the authors who contribute. If they wanted to make that point, they should have put it in the literature.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
That's just a difference in interpretation, then. I think what Lucas put in the movies is the all-ruling canon. What he says on his own time though, doesn't weigh to heavily with me. That's true for the authors who contribute. If they wanted to make that point, they should have put it in the literature.
The point here would be valid if not for two considerations:
1. He created Star Wars. He is 'in universe' perfect canon at all times.
2.


You are very right about the authors though. That's exactly how I feel.

Darth Maul takes this...pretty easily. Ventress got tooled by both Obi Wan and Dooku.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
It's called logic. If he can fight Mace Windu to a draw and trained Obi Wan Kenobi, plus he managed to retain his consciousness after death, then he is definitely great.

By low tier you are saying that he's below the average master, as in the average, nameless random masters in the order? It was stated that Qui Gon would've been on the JEDI COUNCIL had it not been for his maverick attitude. Jedi on the high jedi council aren't "low tier".

I doubt Windu tapped into his dark side during a sparring match with a close friend, thus enabling him to draw with Qui Gon. But Ventress gets stomped.

nah. ventress wipes the floor with maul.

Originally posted by Witness
I doubt Windu tapped into his dark side during a sparring match with a close friend, thus enabling him to draw with Qui Gon. But Ventress gets stomped.

One cannot use Vaapad without doing so:



This shows that to use Vaapad at all, one must enjoy the battle, and to do so one must fight the lure of the Dark Side. Simply using the form on Karun Hal (without a lightsaber in his hand) pushed him dangerously close to the Dark Side:

You can't get Vaapad results without using a Vaapad state of mind.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
The point here would be valid if not for two considerations:
1. He created Star Wars. He is 'in universe' perfect canon at all times.
2.


You are very right about the authors though. That's exactly how I feel.

Thanks for agreeing with me on the authors. I just don't get why what he says should be considered ultimate canon. He wrote the basic story first. That doesn't mean he is taking into account all the EU. He's even said he hasn't read the majority of the books.

So?

So now Sidious can be defeated by someone other than Mace or Yoda.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
So?

So Lucas has no idea whats going on outside of the movies. Number one source for them? Yeah, but the rest wasn't his idea. He shouldn't have all bearing say over the EU.

yeah but canon policy states otherwise.

Even if he made a stupid claim like R2 > Sidious that would be fact regardless of how silly it is.

the canon policy on this site is that eu is canon unless it contradicts lucas' plots.

thats the specific policy on this site... i dont really agree with it.

EDIT.

If your right glentract, i'd argue that vader, according to palpatine still had the highest potential th become the most powerful force user ever just that his true limitations are in his head and are not physical.

But i won't argue that, i am waiting for someone eles to clear up the canon policy issue.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
nah. ventress wipes the floor with maul.

Really? How?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Really? How?

Epic TK. Anyone has a better idea?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Really? How?

better dueling feats. better force feats. etc.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
nah. ventress wipes the floor with maul.

nah, maul wipes the floor with ventress.

not even!

like, so even!

you wanna go?! you wanna go to Disneyland!

your mom went to disneyland. OOOOOOHHHH what now? WHAT! NOW!

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
better dueling feats. better force feats. etc.

Feats mean nothing unless put into context. How has anything Ventress shown indicate she'd be able to handle Darth Maul? In Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, she is noted as being less powerful than General Grievous, who doesn't even have access to the Force. Darth Maul was a dedicated master of the art of combat and Sith teachings. Ventress was but a learner in comparison.

quotes suffer that same problem as feats do though. only worse. maul is master in what context? he didnt master the ways of combat and teachings to the point where he was above everyone else obviously. there were many people even when he was alive that were superior duelists to him. so really he mastered said teachings in the context that he reached the pinnacle of his potential; there was no longer any room for him to grow. but how does that have any meaning in relation to other characters? anakin wasnt a master duelist nor was he a master force practitioner but he was still one of the greatest duelists of the pt. thats because to master something requires a specific dedicated mindset whereas to be truly good or great at something requires skill. as seen with anakin sheer skill can compensate for wisdom and technical prowess. hell dooku was pretty much the grand slam breakfast of force knowledge and dedication aside from sideous but he was no match for the much younger and more inexperienced anakin.

so i see assaj not mastering her abilities more as a result of her mindset then lack of skill. in fact i see her as a mirror image of anakin in that shes very skilled inherently but doesnt have the patience or the resolve to focus on the finer technical aspects of her trade.


as for being weaker then greivous... how is that a negative showing on her? greivous was a beast even without the force. i think hed trash maul as well.

Your point in the that post was what, exactly? That "natural talent" somehow beats out "refined natural talent"? It doesn't. In this case, you have a Dark Jedi with the training of a Jedi padawan going up against a fully trained Dark Lord of the Sith who was a better fighter than even the most skilled duelist of the entire Jedi Order, Anoon Bondara, who also happened to be the battlemaster of the era. Asajj hasn't shown anything to indicate she's in league with Maul. If she has, then prove up.

I'm curious as to how the duel between Anakin and Dooku has any relevance whatsoever to in proving that Asajj Ventress would beat Maul. If this is what you were trying to make out of it,



Then I'd tell you that your operating under an inaccurate assumption. Anakin was a master of Djem So, Dooku himself notes that he was "the finest Djem So stylist he'd ever seen". Outmaneuvering Dooku was not simply "natural talent" working alone; it was a refinement of that innate drawing to saber combat and over a decade of practice, both physically and mentally.

Another false premise you're operating under is the assumption that,



To be "truly great" at something doesn't require mastery? Tell that to the thousands of professional champions - including Anakin Skywalker - that have spent thousands of hours practicing that they have all wasted their time.

Just saying something doesn't make it so and drawing incompatible comparisons don't support much of anything. You'll need something more viable than your words if you want to be taken seriously.

Is there anyone here who hasn't realised that Miss Marvel is Blaxican btw?

Originally posted by A. Cloud
Is there anyone here who hasn't realised that Miss Marvel is Blaxican btw?

i think theyre in denial. im much better at hiding it then you are.



i was rambling to be honest.

ill get to the rest of your post later. i have a hangover again.

Originally posted by Advent
Your point in the that post was what, exactly? That "natural talent" somehow beats out "refined natural talent"? It doesn't. In this case, you have a Dark Jedi with the training of a Jedi padawan going up against a fully trained Dark Lord of the Sith who was a better fighter than even the most skilled duelist of the entire Jedi Order, Anoon Bondara, who also happened to be the battlemaster of the era. Asajj hasn't shown anything to indicate she's in league with Maul. If she has, then prove up.

I'm curious as to how the duel between Anakin and Dooku has any relevance whatsoever to in proving that Asajj Ventress would beat Maul. If this is what you were trying to make out of it,



Then I'd tell you that your operating under an inaccurate assumption. Anakin was a master of Djem So, Dooku himself notes that he was "the finest Djem So stylist he'd ever seen". Outmaneuvering Dooku was not simply "natural talent" working alone; it was a refinement of that innate drawing to saber combat and over a decade of practice, both physically and mentally.

Another false premise you're operating under is the assumption that,



To be "truly great" at something doesn't require mastery? Tell that to the thousands of professional champions - including Anakin Skywalker - that have spent thousands of hours practicing that they have all wasted their time.

Just saying something doesn't make it so and drawing incompatible comparisons don't support much of anything. You'll need something more viable than your words if you want to be taken seriously. Your lso forgetting a quote from Episode 2 "If you spent as muchtime practicing your form as you did witty lines, you would rival master Yopda in saber combat." - Obi-Wan Kenobi to Anakin, before he jumps out of a speeder and falls a long way down bt not to the ground hahaha people who hate Anakin.

You can never call yourself a Star Wars nerd if you can't quote the line properly.

Havnt watched episode 2 in a bit, forgot it plz correct if you remember been a few months since i have

Been like half a year for me.

"If you spent as much time practising your saber techniques as you did your, wit you'd rival master Yoda as a swordsman."

Maul curbstomps. He dueled both Qui Gon and TPM Obi Wan in a duel with a broken ankle, killing Qui Gon and only losing to to being overconfident, and he beat Darth Vader (or his clone did), and only lost...to overconfidence.

Ventress got tooled by Obi Wan in the CW movie.

oh-kay! a nice nap and a bowel ice cream later and i feel fine. srsly ice cream does wonders for hangovers.



fully trained to what extent? he reached the pinnacle of his own understanding... i dont really think this has any bearing on a fight. that masterful learning obviously wasnt intensive enough to keep himself from getting lured into a false sense of security and chopped in half...




"At least she was not standing there alone. Behind her and slightly to one side was her mentor, Anoon Bondara. Master Bondara epitomized what Darsha hoped to become one day. The Twi'lek Jedi Master lived in the Force. Always still and complacent as a pool of unknown depth, he was nevertheless one of the best fighters in the order. His skill with a lightsaber was second to none. Darsha hoped that one day she might be able to exhibit a tenth of Anoon Bondara's adeptness."

imo the author is talking from the viewpoint of how darsha views her master. the last line leads me to believe that the author is talking in an almost 2nd person form, explaining to us how she feels. i dont think the statement about his skills is an out of universe deceleration.

but even if we were to believe that it is, which i dont, it states that he is one of the best duelists of the order first off and it doesnt say of all time either which means its highly possible that it was only referring to that specific time point.

according to faunus its later siad that anoon "humbled" himself after fighting mace and yoda and even doubted his own skills. so hes not on their level.

so if hes not on their level then who else is there as of that specific time that anoon could really compete with? who else was notable enough in dueling that anoon being above them was an impressive feat?



and dooku had multiple decades of practice both physically and mentally over anakin but lost anyway. that is my point. the skill that anakin had made dookus decades upon decades upon decades of training and learning irrelevant. he caught up to him in four years. that was four years that he didnt spend in deep meditation with all of his focus on lightsaber refinement. he couldnt even if he wanted to. he was too busy fighting a war.

my overall point is that learning and practice can only take you so far and having more of it can not be proof superiority by itself.

you've put forth two things that lead you to believe that maul would beat assaj. one: he reached his maximum potential for learning. and two he defeated anoon bonderas who was a good duelist.

the first point isnt an actual gauge of power and doesnt really hold much relevance to a fight unless we know specifically what he learned and we can be shown how much its helped him in battle. that could be supported then by your second point which is the defeat of anoon. the problem is that you think anoon is a godly fighter but according to the source he isnt. hes simply an above average fighter in a time where the bar for average isnt all that high to begin with.



id just like to note that many people who spent countless hours training to be good at something have ended up getting their ass kicked by someone who spent less then half as long training. see dooku for details. muhammed ali and mike tyson made a career out of whooping on people who had much more experience.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
fully trained to what extent? he reached the pinnacle of his own understanding... i dont really think this has any bearing on a fight. that masterful learning obviously wasnt intensive enough to keep himself from getting lured into a false sense of security and chopped in half...

You don't think that mastering the way of the dark side gives one an advantage in the fight? You don't think devoting hours of intense training to lightsaber combat has any bearing on a fight? Good to know.



You're making assumptions that aren't supported by the way the novel is written. It isn't written from a third-person limited perspective, that is, writing in third-person based on one character's subjective perspective.

That said, the narrator is merely pointing out the reasons as to why Darsha respects her master. Simply because those reasons include controversial statements doesn't make the entirety a subjective viewpoint. The passage clearly points out when it's discussing Darsha's feelings.



Then you're choosing to believe something that has no basis in reality.



" was nevertheless one of the best fighters in the order. His skill with a lightsaber was second to none. "

What's that? You're sounding like Ann Coulter putting on all that spin. It says that his "skill with a lightsaber is second to none" and that he is "one of the best fighters". Obviously pointing out that he is not the most powerful Force user. When I'm bringing Anoon up in reference to Maul's lightsaber skills, bringing up he's "one of the best fighters" is largely irrelevant.



Let's make it clear, we're talking about TPM; no one ever mentioned a word about "all-time". However, that time still included people like Mace Windu, Yoda and Count Dooku.

Rather than fight a losing argument, start providing some convincing evidence of your claim that Ventress can actually defeat Maul. So far you have left it completely naked.



Your say-so doesn't make it true. Prove up.



Anoon is on their level with a blade, ergo he's "one of the best fighters", ergo he's in league with "them" (who is this again? Your making vague references to whom exactly?).



You're grasping at straws here, missing the point entirely, and have yet to provide a shred of viable evidence that can back your notion that Ventress would beat Maul.



Your point isn't taken then. Anakin still had over a decade of training that refined that "skill" to the point where he could overwhelm Dooku. What happened in AotC? That "skill" didn't help him much when he got his arm lobbed off. Three years later when Anakin is actively engaging in lightsaber duels and honing his abilities, he is more than a match for Dooku.

That demonstrates my point exactly: natural talent alone is nothing in comparison to natural talent that has been practiced upon for thousands of hours. Stop playing dense, because I know you are not.



War is what advances a Jedi's abilities. That's why we see the huge leap in ability, because during those years, Anakin was fighting with a blade against other blade users. He gained experience and spent "thousands upon thousands of hours" training with a lightsaber. We see this with Obi-Wan and Mace Windu as well, who went from being a beaten by Dooku, to being capable of downing Darth Sidious.



Can you point out where anyone said it did? You'd be hard-pressed, since no one ever made such a claim.

However, you seem to be operating under assumption that Asajj is more "naturally skilled" than Maul. That requires some extensive proof, which you've yet to show a sliver of.



That's hardly an accurate description of my position, Coulter. No one said he "reached his maximum potential for learning". Indeed, that's far from true. Even Sidious did not reach such a thing. What I did say is that he has at least mastered the art of lightsaber combat and has demonstrated his proficiency with it as among the greatest of his era by embarrassing people like Anoon Bondara and the Jedi duo of Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon.

On the other hand, Ventress is shown struggling with AotC Anakin and being tossed around like a rag doll against Dooku and Grievous.



Who's "lightsaber skill was second to none" at the time of his death, yes.



I'll take canon quotes from narration over your say-so. You say that Anoon was an "above average fighter" - and you have provided jack shit to prove that. Until you do, don't expect me to waste my time responding to your unsupported claims.



You're being ridiculous. Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson did practice for thousands of hours before they even stepped up to the professional level. You don't grasp the concept that all of these folks have dedicated themselves to training in an effort to become the best, because they are not naturally the best. You cannot innately have the ability to walk into a boxing ring and defeat someone like Mike Tyson; you would be destroyed.

Originally posted by Advent
You don't think that mastering the way of the dark side gives one an advantage in the fight? You don't think devoting hours of intense training to lightsaber combat has any bearing on a fight? Good to know.

i dont think that by itself it can be used as an example of direct superiority over someone else unless its quantified.



i suppose so. shrug



ill address all this stuff after faunus replies to my pm. i dont know where he got that statement from or if its true but it holds a lot of relevance to our discussion.







i agree 100% with you here. skill alone does not mean a whole lot and it by itself cant used to label someone as superior.




personally i never considered the war to be a great learning experience for the jedis bladework because the majority of their time was spent fighting droids which didnt necessarily require sharpening specific skills of their respective styles.
comparatively speaking lightsaber duels were too far and in in between as opposed to fighting droids, for the war to hone their dueling skills that much. as i see it extensive one on one sparring in the pre-war peace time would serve their dueling skills better then the hectic blaster bolt deflection and such that was metaphorically the order of the day for them. mmm




thats what "mastering" something is, honestly.

he learned everything that was presented for him to learn.




and despite that she managed to almost kill him a few months before RotS and along the way slew her share of jedi and defeated a couple of notable skill.



both of whom would absolutely wreck maul in any contest.




i agree with you.




it wasnt my intention to spin your words into something else i was merely stating how im interpreting your words. im sorry if it seemed like i was doing anything else.

- - - -

i feel emotionally drained after making that post. almost depressed even. wtf.

: I should probably stop treating people's post like I'm responding to a dolt like Dr. McBeefington.

Originally posted by Advent
: I should probably stop treating people's post like I'm responding to a dolt like Dr. McBeefington.

That is probably the nicest thing I have ever seen you post. Srsly.

Originally posted by Advent
: I should probably stop treating people's post like I'm responding to a dolt like Dr. McBeefington.

considering my current shennanigans in the Revan's strength's, I lol'ed.

Without getting into a long, drawn out post right out the gate, I'll just say that I see nothing that suggests Ventress can defeat Maul. Perhaps it's because I've personally seen more information about Maul (which might not be a fair argument), but With his victory of Anoon and basically QGJ and OB1 (until his hubris hindered his ultimate success), I don't see how she would be on his level. Not that I think he completely overshadows her by leagues and leagues, but I believe he is the superior combatant.

well. shut up!
also, were you really in the military?

Well that wasn't very nice.
Yes ma'am, I was. How did you know that, by the way?

youre lucky i didnt get the whip out!

i read this quote in a profile:



its a very good post. im tempted to put it in my profile as well under wildshadows as theyre both very good points.

so you were apart of an artillery battery... does that count as a mechanized infantry squad or is it more specific?

Wow, someone had that in their profile? I'm touched, haha.

No, it wasn't any kind of infantry. It was strictly an airborne field artillery battery (artillery uses batteries in place of companies) out of Ft. Richardson, Alaska. We had 6 teams of approx 5 - 7 soldiers (as well as support MOS's), each team with their own M119 Howitzer (105mm canon).

EDIT - the whip sounds fun. j/k

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Wow, someone had that in their profile? I'm touched, haha.

No, it wasn't any kind of infantry. It was strictly an airborne field artillery battery (artillery uses batteries in place of companies) out of Ft. Richardson, Alaska. We had 6 teams of approx 5 - 7 soldiers (as well as support MOS's), each team with their own M119 Howitzer (105mm canon).

EDIT - the whip sounds fun. j/k

thanks for the info. thats pretty cool. not cool as in like... killing shit. but its cool in that im kind of fascinated with modern warfare. troop movements hierarchy firefight tactics etc...