Create your own 'FC' ending to a storyline!

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theICONiac
Good Gawd, I hated 'Final Crisis'.

As good as 'Blackest Night' is turning out to be FC was the antithesis...pure crap. DC is finally redeeming itself, however.

But in the spirit of how bad FC is, I invite you all to create your own bad ending to a comics storyline (Marvel/DC/Image/uh, other??). I'll go first, in creating an ending that would rival FC in sheer idiocy.

*ahem*

Infinity Gauntlet

It is a bleak time for the superheroes of earth, sent on a suicide mission to defeat Thanos and his 'Infinity Gauntlet'.

The heroes are being slaughtered left and right by Thano's omnipotent glove. All hope seems lost...

Then, suddenly the Punisher shows up, mystically summoned by Dr. Strange. The Punisher targets his laser-sighted Baretta on Thanos' wrinkly-purple forehead and lets a bullet tear into Thano's skull. The mad titan keels over dead.

Adam Warlock dashes out of the crowd, grabbing the IG off of Thanos limp body, yelling 'Yoink!' as he does it. He disappears into the ether (setting up Warlock and the Infinity Watch).

The Ewok song 'Yub-Yub' from ROTJ plays in the background as all the assembled heroes begin line dancing. Hulk and Drax begin doing the 'Boot-Scootin' Boogie'.

As Punisher gazes into the heavens on Thano's platform he sees Mistress Death, Eternity and LT gazing approvingly down at him (like Ben Annakin and Yoda in ROTJ...

THIS would be as lame as FC.

Digi
Honestly, after all the "The Day Evil Won" hype leading up to it, I would have just been happy with, ya know, evil actually winning. Like Thanos: The End where he literally destroys everything. It's been shown that even after such an occurrence, it's possible to bring everything back. Morrison really could've delved into the philosophical aspects of Darkseid's total dominion, and the nature of the ALE itself.

Instead, we got a confusing story, which still managed to be trite in its "heroes save the day" nature.

So there's my suggestion.

willRules
At the end of Civil War, Cap's side wins and the status quo is returned. Nothing changes.

Martian_mind
FC ends with the use of the martian Life Equation to take down the ALE,and an epic battle with Libra's society and the ressurected new gods at the end of the universe that still ends with J'onn dying,only by throwing himself and Darkseid into the source, in a shout-out to DC one-million.

Mandrakk would then get his own event at a later date,where he actually appears in the main event for more then 20 panels.

Digi
Martian Life Equation?! laughing out loud

Forget what I said. Morrison's work is far better than that.

Doctor-Alvis
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/zanpanzer/Bob-Newhart-Bed-1.jpg

-Pr-
i liked FC... shrug

theICONiac
Originally posted by -Pr-
i liked FC... shrug

Yeah, but you are Irish big grin

-Pr-
Originally posted by theICONiac
Yeah, but you are Irish big grin

and...

tjcoady
Final Crisis was one of the most brilliant comics of all time.

Allankles
I hate false promises too, but FC was easily one of the best written and intelligent big event crossovers in comics.

Evil won partially, but comic fans are not yet ready for a radical reshuffling of there favorite fictional universes. Imagine how most DC fans would have taken the idea of fugitive super heroes issue after issue for the next year or more?

Did DC fans honestly want to read about several story arcs of the Lanterns, Supermen et al running and hiding in the shadows for months or years trying to avoid the ALE?

I personally wouldn't have minded a story like this, it would be an interesting take but there are plenty Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Lantern fans that wouldn't appreciate it.

It wouldn't sit well with many comic fans to see their favorite fictional universes to go through such a huge and long-term (relatively speaking) change.

Symmetric Chaos
Batman RIP ends with the "all a dream" reveal. Turns out everything since Dick becoming Nightwing never happened.

Originally posted by Allankles
I hate false promises too, but FC was easily one of the best written and intelligent big event crossovers in comics.

Intelligent? Maybe. It was certainly one of the more ambitious and clever crossovers in a long time.

The execution, however, was absolutely horrendous and ended up tripping all over itself.

Martian_mind
Originally posted by Digi
Martian Life Equation?! laughing out loud

Forget what I said. Morrison's work is far better than that.

Don't you dare insult John ostrander's work.

Plus,The Life equation is actually referred to in FC,so kiss my ass turd stick out tongue

willRules
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Intelligent? Maybe. It was certainly one of the more ambitious and clever crossovers in a long time.

The execution, however, was absolutely horrendous and ended up tripping all over itself.

thumb up

Doctor-Alvis
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Batman RIP ends with the "all a dream" reveal. Turns out everything since Dick becoming Nightwing never happened.
Everything's a ripoff of Bob Newhart.

Galvaclaw
I disagree completely with the thread starter. Final crisis is superior event to blackest night in every way.

Blackest night is safe pedestrian comics and has yet to reach the highs sinestro corps did. To be honest I've enjoyed the tie ins much more than the event itself.

Not to say it isn't good, it's just not wowed me.

Also for those that hate final crisis, good god just accept that other people did like it and a good number of people had no trouble understanding it. They're not lying they just like different kinds of comics to you.

willRules
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
I disagree completely with the thread starter. Final crisis is superior event to blackest night in every way.

Blackest night is safe pedestrian comics and has yet to reach the highs sinestro corps did. To be honest I've enjoyed the tie ins much more than the event itself.

Not to say it isn't good, it's just not wowed me.

Also for those that hate final crisis, good god just accept that other people did like it and a good number of people had no trouble understanding it. They're not lying they just like different kinds of comics to you.


I think people can accept that. But that's not the point. Did I understand FC? Yes. Did I think that it was an unnecessarily disjointed plot that ultimately only undermined Morrison's own efforts, which are commendable but also self defeatist? Yes, yes I did.

Galvaclaw
I quite enjoyed his channel surfing approach it succeeded for me. It's perfectly fine disliking it for the different narative style that was used in the story but there is a lot of irrational hatred for the book. Like the phrase 'Morrison apologist' which is a popular argument that claims anyone who claims to like it lying to protect Morrison

Look at the venom in the first post. In an industry where Loeb is still allow to write his revenge fics and be paid for them, final crisis is the story that makes him angry?

Besides it included Superman Beyond. Which was so good the main mini could of consisted of photo's of morrison taking drugs while dressed as various super heroes and I would of still hailed it as a success solely due to Superman beyond.

And for those that found Final crisis disjointed and confusing try flex mentallo.

Galan007
honestly, the ending to FC would have been MUCH better had there been one or two more issues to better, and more thoroughly, explain what exactly was happening - instead of leaving it up to the readers to piece things together.



i mean jebus christ, grundy even got 7 issues in his mini. srsly..... hell, tangent superman got 12 issues..... yet you mean to tell me DC couldn't spare a few more issues for their supposed "biggest event " at that time? please. srsly

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by Galan007
honestly, the ending to FC would have been MUCH better had there been one or two more issues to better, and more thoroughly, explain what exactly was happening - instead of leaving it up to the readers to piece things together.



i mean jebus christ, grundy even got 7 issues in his mini. srsly..... hell, tangent superman got 12 issues..... yet you mean to tell me DC couldn't spare a few more issues for their supposed "biggest event " at that time? please. srsly

I KNOW!!!

Even Ma-liefeld-gog is getting his own miniseries, and they couldn't afford to give Final Crisis another issue? Countdown was like 50 issues of torture and being pissed on, and they can't extend Final Crisis one issue?

Philosophía
Final Crisis was in no way a failure just because there is a group of people that heavily disliked it, when there's a group at least as big that loved it and give valid arguments to their opinion. And it's the same way with Batman: RIP. The fact that a big percent of the arguments of those who didn't like it is "I didn't understand it" while the other side is able to form coherent, in-depth analysis of the crossover and its quality, points more to the readers than the series' merits.

I'm in no way calling those who didn't like it stupid. There are many people to whom this crossover just isn't their cup of tea, be it from a structure, resolve or anything else. Which, again, doesn't speak of the series quality. But most of the people complain that they don't get it, which is either a sign of laziness or "jump in on the complaining bandwagon".

Kris Blaze
I still love Final Crisis.

I just feel that one more issue would've helped its mainstream appeal.

willRules
I understood Final Crisis, but I had some issues with the style of writing. I understood that Morrison was taking a channel hopping/surfing/whatever approach in order to show the breakdown of the concept of stories which in turn mirrored the events in FC. However my personal opinion was simply that by doing so he made the story less entertaining and more of an effort to read.

I just feel that Morrison can write some clever concepts and it was great to see him play around with the story telling, however I think it was a failed experiment, as I didn't see the enjoyment behind it. Perhaps it's the label. If this was a major event, if it didn't have the Crisis brand and was out of continuity, it may have worked better for the story (and would have provided an additional metaphor to the deconstruction of stories.)

I also feel the author has a duty to the reader to make the story as interesting and as entertaining as possible. I recognise that taste is subjective but it seemed from reading FC that priorities were more on telling an abstract, thought provoking story, rather than an interesting one. Clever? Maybe. Fun? No.

Don't get me wrong it wasn't all bad, I just feel Morrison should have written it more like "JLA," less like "The Filth."

Kris Blaze
Why? What's wrong with having one god-damned abstract story? We've just gotten out of the Sinestro Corps and we're heading into Blackest Night. The DC readers are getting their fill of well written easy-to-enjoy stories.

Galvaclaw
There's an expectation of what super hero comics should be and woe upon he who dares to experiment. That's why I assume you would of rather FC was out of continuity Willrules. Should this type of story not be allowed to be told in canon? The DC universe is vast and can fit any type of story in it.

Constrast Sandman and Blue beetle.

tjcoady
I don't understand how Final Crisis could have been difficult to comprehend.

willRules
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Why? What's wrong with having one god-damned abstract story? We've just gotten out of the Sinestro Corps and we're heading into Blackest Night. The DC readers are getting their fill of well written easy-to-enjoy stories.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
There's an expectation of what super hero comics should be and woe upon he who dares to experiment. That's why I assume you would of rather FC was out of continuity Willrules. Should this type of story not be allowed to be told in canon? The DC universe is vast and can fit any type of story in it.

Constrast Sandman and Blue beetle.


I never said there was anything wrong with experimenting with the comic form, I'm all for that. It's just a major event like a Crisis didn't conform to any of my expectations in an entertaining manner. I paid for something entertaining and "Crisisy." It didn't feel that way. I think in the case of FC, something out of continuity would have served the story better.

Of course those stories can be told within the cannon, I'm not opposed to that. I'm merely expressing my frustration as I did not find FC entertaining. For me, it was a failed experiment. That makes all the difference, now it's in continuity. If it wasn't, for those who did not enjoy FC, the consequences wouldn't be that much more dire.

But of course we are debating over the extremely subjective, so it really comes down to "At the end of the day was FC worth it?" I'd say yes. It had many problems, but even if just because it's about as big an event you can get, then it's gotta be worth reading.

theICONiac
Originally posted by tjcoady
I don't understand how Final Crisis could have been difficult to comprehend.

I understood the plot of 'Final Crisis'. Unfortunately the story's flow was abominable. Even worse, FC was, well, boring.

The hype leading up to it was phenomenal. I even enjoyed the last 15 or so issues of Countdown. That seemed to be building with the Monitors and the Source towards something truly epic.

Then Morrison came along and shit over almost everything done in the prebuild.

Let's take a look at all 3 'Crisis' storylines, presented in my best Don Lafountaine voice:

*ahem*

Crisis on Infinite Earths: A new terrible threat in the all-powerful Anti-Monitor ravages the multiverse of DC. Heroes and villains alike die under his awesome offensive, as universe's are destroyed...

Infinite Crisis: Survivors from the previous multiverse mount a desperate campaign to bring it back. In the end the multiverse is restored...through the terrible cost of many superhero lives...

Final Crisis: Darkseid takes over the earth...and some villain named Mandrakk is shoe-horned in the end, but easily defeated.

To say Final Crisis was under-whelming is stating the obvious sick

theICONiac
Originally posted by -Pr-
and...

I TOTALLY kid!

I am half-Irish...my mom would have smacked me for that comment smile

theICONiac
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
I disagree completely with the thread starter. Final crisis is superior event to blackest night in every way.

Blackest night is safe pedestrian comics and has yet to reach the highs sinestro corps did. To be honest I've enjoyed the tie ins much more than the event itself.

Then you are on crack good sir! 2 issues of 'Blackest Night' have already had a dozen times more 'holy shit!' moments than all of FC.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Also for those that hate final crisis, good god just accept that other people did like it and a good number of people had no trouble understanding it. They're not lying they just like different kinds of comics to you.

That is all fine and dandy, but if it wasn't part of the 'Crisis' trilogy I wouldn't have bought it. I feel ripped off because it did not live up to its predecessors, and went off in a weird tangent that disillusioned fans looking for more of what they had come to expect from the series.

Blanket
Originally posted by theICONiac
Good Gawd, I hated 'Final Crisis'.

As good as 'Blackest Night' is turning out to be FC was the antithesis...pure crap. DC is finally redeeming itself, however.

But in the spirit of how bad FC is, I invite you all to create your own bad ending to a comics storyline (Marvel/DC/Image/uh, other??). I'll go first, in creating an ending that would rival FC in sheer idiocy.

*ahem*

Infinity Gauntlet

It is a bleak time for the superheroes of earth, sent on a suicide mission to defeat Thanos and his 'Infinity Gauntlet'.

The heroes are being slaughtered left and right by Thano's omnipotent glove. All hope seems lost...

Then, suddenly the Punisher shows up, mystically summoned by Dr. Strange. The Punisher targets his laser-sighted Baretta on Thanos' wrinkly-purple forehead and lets a bullet tear into Thano's skull. The mad titan keels over dead.

Adam Warlock dashes out of the crowd, grabbing the IG off of Thanos limp body, yelling 'Yoink!' as he does it. He disappears into the ether (setting up Warlock and the Infinity Watch).

The Ewok song 'Yub-Yub' from ROTJ plays in the background as all the assembled heroes begin line dancing. Hulk and Drax begin doing the 'Boot-Scootin' Boogie'.

As Punisher gazes into the heavens on Thano's platform he sees Mistress Death, Eternity and LT gazing approvingly down at him (like Ben Annakin and Yoda in ROTJ...

THIS would be as lame as FC. Yup. That would definitely rival FC.

theICONiac
Originally posted by Blanket
Yup. That would definitely rival FC.

See, I'm not just trying to be a jack-off here about this (well, maybe kinda big grin ).

I was legitimately disappointed with the whole thing. I WANTED to have my mind blown by FC, and it was not...and in turn I wasted $30+ dollars.

Symmetric Chaos

-Pr-
Originally posted by theICONiac
I understood the plot of 'Final Crisis'. Unfortunately the story's flow was abominable. Even worse, FC was, well, boring.

The hype leading up to it was phenomenal. I even enjoyed the last 15 or so issues of Countdown. That seemed to be building with the Monitors and the Source towards something truly epic.

Then Morrison came along and shit over almost everything done in the prebuild.

Let's take a look at all 3 'Crisis' storylines, presented in my best Don Lafountaine voice:

*ahem*

Crisis on Infinite Earths: A new terrible threat in the all-powerful Anti-Monitor ravages the multiverse of DC. Heroes and villains alike die under his awesome offensive, as universe's are destroyed...

Infinite Crisis: Survivors from the previous multiverse mount a desperate campaign to bring it back. In the end the multiverse is restored...through the terrible cost of many superhero lives...

Final Crisis: Darkseid takes over the earth...and some villain named Mandrakk is shoe-horned in the end, but easily defeated.

To say Final Crisis was under-whelming is stating the obvious sick

you liked countdown but hated FC? for shame...

Originally posted by theICONiac
I TOTALLY kid!

I am half-Irish...my mom would have smacked me for that comment smile

your mother's from ireland?

Blanket
Originally posted by -Pr-
you liked countdown but hated FC? for shame...



your mother's from ireland? He said the last couple issues. Which were really the only enjoyable (not good) ones.

Of course, how else would you explain her black eye?

Galvaclaw
On Earth, the resistance is faltering. Batman looses is life as he mortally wounds Darkseids body. Superman returns breaking Darkseid's forces, just as the Flash's arrive leading Death to Darkseid. the combined efforts of the heroes and villains break Darkseids hold on the Earth, but are too late to save reality.

On a strange amalgam of the various Superhero bases floating in the shattered remains of reality, Superman and the worlds greatest scientists work together to build the ultimate expression of technology, however as they work other realities are falling victim to Darkseid. Superman and Darkseid have their final battle, but the effort weakens Superman.

Mandrakk returns, but Superman is able to activate the Miracle machine and makes his wish. Mandrakk is set upon by the Supermen of the multiverse, the angels of the Pax Dei, The new forever people, Captain Carrot and the Zoo crew and the Green Lantern corps. The heroes rebuild existence and things return to normal. The monitor world returns to the primal expanse that formed it leaving the stories of the DCU to grow unfettered.

Now that is a summary. And I still missed out loads. Jesus I could make Annihilation look bad using such a brief summary as you did for Final crisis.

Then again you found yourself liking Countdown more so I begin to doubt you taste. Also what 'holy shit' moments in BN eclipses Darkseids speech in issue 5?

-Pr-
Originally posted by Blanket
He said the last couple issues. Which were really the only enjoyable (not good) ones.

Of course, how else would you explain her black eye?

he said the last 15. that's a fair sized chunk.

Galvaclaw
Forgot to paste in the first bit of my summary. This is all of it.

Darkseid upon winning the war in heaven falls broken to Earth dragging reality with him. His opening moves disable the trinity and remove Earth's lanterns leaving earth defenceless. Darkseid easily conquers the planet. The worlds only hope is the newly reborn Barry Allen.

Meanwhile Superman has travelled into 4th dimensional space along with other trans-dimensional Supermen to find a way to save Lois. On the monitor world he and Ultraman must combine their energies to a colossal thought robot to Fight Mandrakk, formally Dax Novu the original Monitor from crisis on infinite Earths. Mandrakk is killed after a battle that shakes reality, but his essence infects one of his minions and Mandrakk is reborn.

On Earth, the resistance is faltering. Batman looses is life as he mortally wounds Darkseids body. Superman returns breaking Darkseid's forces, just as the Flash's arrive leading Death to Darkseid. the combined efforts of the heroes and villains break Darkseids hold on the Earth, but are too late to save reality.

On a strange amalgam of the various Superhero bases floating in the shattered remains of reality, Superman and the worlds greatest scientists work together to build the ultimate expression of technology, however as they work other realities are falling victim to Darkseid. Superman and Darkseid have their final battle, but the effort weakens Superman.

Mandrakk returns, but Superman is able to activate the Miracle machine and makes his wish. Mandrakk is set upon by the Supermen of the multiverse, the angels of the Pax Dei, The new forever people, Captain Carrot and the Zoo crew and the Green Lantern corps. The heroes rebuild existence and things return to normal. The monitor world returns to the primal expanse that formed it leaving the stories of the DCU to grow unfettered.

Blanket
Originally posted by -Pr-
he said the last 15. that's a fair sized chunk. Those are really the only read... flippable issues. Mostly because of Prime, and all the fights.

willRules
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Also what 'holy shit' moments in BN eclipses Darkseids speech in issue 5?

I say this as a massive Batman fan, whose jaw dropped to the floor in FC #6.

The first two issues of Blackest Night have been more enjoyable than anything I read in Final Crisis. If Blackest Night sustains this quality, it will be a far, far superior story to Final Crisis.

My jaw didn't drop when Superman from alternate dimensions were being recruited. I didn't care for the zoo crew. I didn't gasp when Superman wearing an armour made of stories, fights a Monitor vampire for the sake of his wife's life.

However, when Hawkgirl told Hawkman she loved him, only to have a spear burst through her chest, I fell off my chair. When zombified heroes started ripping organs from established DCU characters, I thought that was ballsy of DC.

More ballsy than the death of characters that were just created for the event, like Mandrakk.

IMO, so far, Blackest Night is winning the "which storyline is cooler and more entertaining" contest.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by willRules
I say this as a massive Batman fan, whose jaw dropped to the floor in FC #6.

The first two issues of Blackest Night have been more enjoyable than anything I read in Final Crisis. If Blackest Night sustains this quality, it will be a far, far superior story to Final Crisis.

My jaw didn't drop when Superman from alternate dimensions were being recruited. I didn't care for the zoo crew. I didn't gasp when Superman wearing an armour made of stories, fights a Monitor vampire for the sake of his wife's life.

However, when Hawkgirl told Hawkman she loved him, only to have a spear burst through her chest, I fell off my chair. When zombified heroes started ripping organs from established DCU characters, I thought that was ballsy of DC.

More ballsy than the death of characters that were just created for the event, like Mandrakk.

IMO, so far, Blackest Night is winning the "which storyline is cooler and more entertaining" contest.

Then you're nothing short of a herochat poster.

Go, go post there. Go post, I won't care. Go post. Go be with Quanchi and the Marvel crew. uhuh

willRules
I've not been on herochat. no

But c'mon. Blackest Night has been soooooo awesome so far! yes

That's not to take away from FC, but if the comparison had to be made....

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by willRules
I've not been on herochat. no

But c'mon. Blackest Night has been soooooo awesome so far! yes

That's not to take away from FC, but if the comparison had to be made....

I was not blown away until I read the FC hardcover as a whole, with Superman Beyond. When I read the issues separately, I was only enjoying Final Crisis: Revelations.

theICONiac
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Forgot to paste in the first bit of my summary. This is all of it.

Darkseid upon winning the war in heaven falls broken to Earth dragging reality with him. His opening moves disable the trinity and remove Earth's lanterns leaving earth defenceless. Darkseid easily conquers the planet. The worlds only hope is the newly reborn Barry Allen.

Meanwhile Superman has travelled into 4th dimensional space along with other trans-dimensional Supermen to find a way to save Lois. On the monitor world he and Ultraman must combine their energies to a colossal thought robot to Fight Mandrakk, formally Dax Novu the original Monitor from crisis on infinite Earths. Mandrakk is killed after a battle that shakes reality, but his essence infects one of his minions and Mandrakk is reborn.

On Earth, the resistance is faltering. Batman looses is life as he mortally wounds Darkseids body. Superman returns breaking Darkseid's forces, just as the Flash's arrive leading Death to Darkseid. the combined efforts of the heroes and villains break Darkseids hold on the Earth, but are too late to save reality.

On a strange amalgam of the various Superhero bases floating in the shattered remains of reality, Superman and the worlds greatest scientists work together to build the ultimate expression of technology, however as they work other realities are falling victim to Darkseid. Superman and Darkseid have their final battle, but the effort weakens Superman.

Mandrakk returns, but Superman is able to activate the Miracle machine and makes his wish. Mandrakk is set upon by the Supermen of the multiverse, the angels of the Pax Dei, The new forever people, Captain Carrot and the Zoo crew and the Green Lantern corps. The heroes rebuild existence and things return to normal. The monitor world returns to the primal expanse that formed it leaving the stories of the DCU to grow unfettered.

You have written a very good review. But I'd be very impressed if you could condense it to 2-3 sentences like what I did for COIE and IC. But you can't. Why? Because FC was a bloated, convoluted mess that flew off in dozens of different directions.

When I read the first few issues of Infinite Crisis it was like reading FC: lots of different plotlines swirling around one another, seeming to suggest I had to read all the different tie-ins to understand everything going on. But by the last few issues Johns tied in EVERYTHING and it all made perfect sense...events like the Rann-Thanagar war (which seemingly had nothing to do with anything) blended in nicely.

God I wish Johns had written FC. Could have been the masterpiece it was hyped to be...

Philosophía
Originally posted by theICONiac
You have written a very good review. But I'd be very impressed if you could condense it to 2-3 sentences like what I did for COIE and IC. But you can't. Why? Because FC was a bloated, convoluted mess that flew off in dozens of different directions.

Ah. Just when I thought today was one of those days when I'm not going to run into hilarious lines of thinking.

Thank you.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Who's said they couldn't follow it?

As for jumping on the bandwagon I said "give them another issue" every time right up until the end.

They did.

Your point ? You misunderstood what I wrote. I never said that everybody who said didn't like it did so only to jump on the bandwagon.

theICONiac

Philosophía
Originally posted by theICONiac
Care to

No.

theICONiac

WhoopeeDee
Darkseid kidnaps Catwoman and Batman kicks his ass. Oh, and bring back Barry Allen.

The End.

Allankles
Originally posted by willRules
I've not been on herochat. no

But c'mon. Blackest Night has been soooooo awesome so far! yes

That's not to take away from FC, but if the comparison had to be made....

Blackest Night has been dissapointing so far, but I guess that's just me having the wrong expectations. Not to say it hasn't been decent, but I figured they'd me... more.

theICONiac
Originally posted by Allankles
Blackest Night has been dissapointing so far, but I guess that's just me having the wrong expectations. Not to say it hasn't been decent, but I figured they'd me... more.

What are you disappointed about? What were you expecting? My dislike of FC springs from expectations.

Galvaclaw
Originally posted by theICONiac
You have written a very good review. But I'd be very impressed if you could condense it to 2-3 sentences like what I did for COIE and IC. But you can't. Why? Because FC was a bloated, convoluted mess that flew off in dozens of different directions.

When I read the first few issues of Infinite Crisis it was like reading FC: lots of different plotlines swirling around one another, seeming to suggest I had to read all the different tie-ins to understand everything going on. But by the last few issues Johns tied in EVERYTHING and it all made perfect sense...events like the Rann-Thanagar war (which seemingly had nothing to do with anything) blended in nicely.

God I wish Johns had written FC. Could have been the masterpiece it was hyped to be...

I'd point out you'd have trouble summing up Watchmen, Miracle Man or the first arc of Sandman in a few sentences, but there we go. Fine I'll bite:

Darkseid having finally gained the anti life equation destroys free will and threatens all existence with his very presence. However this depravity threatens to unleash an even deadlier more primal evil. Only the combined forces of the Superheroes of 52 universe can end this final crisis.

There three sentences. Any questions?

As for blackest night. Really now? I read invincible so the super hero gore was nothing exciting. CHawkman and Hawk girl had already been killed off in final crisis and then that death was swiftly retconned, so no I wasn't particularly shocked the first time they died and I wasn't shocked the second time even if it was more bloody. it just felt pointless.

The tie ins have been much better than the main event. Especially the GL/Flash/Martian manhunter fight.

theICONiac
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
I'd point out you'd have trouble summing up Watchmen, Miracle Man or the first arc of Sandman in a few sentences, but there we go. Fine I'll bite:

Darkseid having finally gained the anti life equation destroys free will and threatens all existence with his very presence. However this depravity threatens to unleash an even deadlier more primal evil. Only the combined forces of the Superheroes of 52 universe can end this final crisis.

There three sentences. Any questions?

As for blackest night. Really now? I read invincible so the super hero gore was nothing exciting. CHawkman and Hawk girl had already been killed off in final crisis and then that death was swiftly retconned, so no I wasn't particularly shocked the first time they died and I wasn't shocked the second time even if it was more bloody. it just felt pointless.

The tie ins have been much better than the main event. Especially the GL/Flash/Martian manhunter fight.

How many tie-in's did 'Watchmen' have to understand what was going on in the main story?

Galvaclaw
Originally posted by theICONiac
How many tie-in's did 'Watchmen' have to understand what was going on in the main story?

And that has what to do with my point? My point was ease of summarizationn has nothing to do with quality. Only Superman beyond is needed to understand final crisis which is why it's included in the trade.

Considering Moore was very keen on the idea of event tie ins based on his twilight of Superheroes pitch I'm not sure where you going with this.

Kris Blaze
wait wait wait, is Watchmen as deep and abstract as Final Crisis now?

BAHAHAHAHAHA

theICONiac
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
And that has what to do with my point? My point was ease of summarizationn has nothing to do with quality. Only Superman beyond is needed to understand final crisis which is why it's included in the trade.

Considering Moore was very keen on the idea of event tie ins based on his twilight of Superheroes pitch I'm not sure where you going with this.

Sorry you are right...I am going off on a different tangent here.

One big problem with FC was you HAD to read the various tie-in's to appreciate the full story in FC. That is where I am going with that.

Your summerization is a little more pretty than mine, but parallels it to the T: at the end of it all nothing changed - except for the mind-blowing disappearance of the Monitors. Meh...

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Considering Moore was very keen on the idea of event tie ins based on his twilight of Superheroes pitch I'm not sure where you going with this.

Watchmen didn't end up needing those tie in. It succeed in being a complete story on it's own merits. Tie ins really ought to add to the story not fill in major plot points that are missing from the main book.

However, I'll admit that FC did make excellent use of tie ins.

theICONiac
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Tie ins really ought to add to the story not fill in major plot points that are missing from the main book.

Yes, that is what I meant!

willRules
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Watchmen didn't end up needing those tie in. It succeed in being a complete story on it's own merits. Tie ins really ought to add to the story not fill in major plot points that are missing from the main book.

However, I'll admit that FC did make excellent use of tie ins.


It only made excellent use of the tie ins for the very reason you said. It had to. It was essential to the main plot. FC was too convoluted to be explained in just the main series. sad

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by willRules
It only made excellent use of the tie ins for the very reason you said. It had to. It was essential to the main plot. FC was too convoluted to be explained in just the main series. sad

When you buy the FC tradeback or hardcover, you get it with Superman Beyond I think. Superman Beyond shouldn't be viewed as a tie-in, it's absolutely essential. The last issue of final crisis doesn't make a lick of sense without it. Should it be like this? Probably not. Does it diminish the story in any way when you read it as a whole? Of course not.

-Pr-
Originally posted by willRules
I say this as a massive Batman fan, whose jaw dropped to the floor in FC #6.

The first two issues of Blackest Night have been more enjoyable than anything I read in Final Crisis. If Blackest Night sustains this quality, it will be a far, far superior story to Final Crisis.

My jaw didn't drop when Superman from alternate dimensions were being recruited. I didn't care for the zoo crew. I didn't gasp when Superman wearing an armour made of stories, fights a Monitor vampire for the sake of his wife's life.

However, when Hawkgirl told Hawkman she loved him, only to have a spear burst through her chest, I fell off my chair. When zombified heroes started ripping organs from established DCU characters, I thought that was ballsy of DC.

More ballsy than the death of characters that were just created for the event, like Mandrakk.

IMO, so far, Blackest Night is winning the "which storyline is cooler and more entertaining" contest.

you saying you weren't impressed by superman beyond?

willRules
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
As for blackest night. Really now? I read invincible so the super hero gore was nothing exciting. CHawkman and Hawk girl had already been killed off in final crisis and then that death was swiftly retconned, so no I wasn't particularly shocked the first time they died and I wasn't shocked the second time even if it was more bloody. it just felt pointless.

Well I felt the recruitment of parallel superman, the appearance of the zoo crew and the pax dei were pointless at what was supposed to pass for a climax for FC, when apparently just the GL corps were needed to put a final end the multiversal threat of a character created specifically for FC.

Ironically I found the stakes to be much bigger, much more interesting and much more entertaining for the death of two B/C-list heroes like the Hawks even over the potential collapse of the multiverse (which was the only link I could see that made it a "Crisis" event).

So yes, unsurprisingly I thought Blackest Night has so far been a much better quality of story telling.

willRules
Originally posted by -Pr-
you saying you weren't impressed by superman beyond?

Yeah, pretty much. Art was good, as Mahnke always is. I bought the hardcover to FC so I'm annoyed there were no 3D glasses, might have made up for what I thought was quite a poor story.

willRules
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
When you buy the FC tradeback or hardcover, you get it with Superman Beyond I think. Superman Beyond shouldn't be viewed as a tie-in, it's absolutely essential. The last issue of final crisis doesn't make a lick of sense without it. Should it be like this? Probably not. Does it diminish the story in any way when you read it as a whole? Of course not.

I know and agree. It serves the story, but I was emphasising what you've just pointed out, that it shouldn't have to be like that. Paying customers should get the story they want to buy. yes

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by willRules
I know and agree. It serves the story, but I was emphasising what you've just pointed out, that it shouldn't have to be like that. Paying customers should get the story they want to buy. yes

But now we're bordering into a discussion of what people "should" get from a comic. Though I agree. If someone is so unfortunate as to not be able to afford Superman Beyond, then Final Crisis becomes a real letdown. But you, you're not even people! You didn't even LIKE Superman Beyond. I consider you less than scum uhuh

willRules
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
But now we're bordering into a discussion of what people "should" get from a comic. Though I agree. If someone is so unfortunate as to not be able to afford Superman Beyond, then Final Crisis becomes a real letdown. But you, you're not even people! You didn't even LIKE Superman Beyond. I consider you less than scum uhuh

I would be insulted but your taste in comics has already offended me enough stick out tongue

-Pr-
Originally posted by willRules
Yeah, pretty much. Art was good, as Mahnke always is. I bought the hardcover to FC so I'm annoyed there were no 3D glasses, might have made up for what I thought was quite a poor story.

Respect = gone. sad

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by willRules
I would be insulted but your taste in comics has already offended me enough stick out tongue

Seriously though, how can you not be moved by Superman Beyond?

willRules
I just didn't think it was all that fun. My least favourite bit was the residents of Limbo sad

Like everything in this discussion, opinion is everything smile

willRules
Originally posted by -Pr-
Respect = gone. sad

Initially I thought it might be that I'm not a big Superman fan and therefore too compromised in my bias. However, I just picked up Geoff John's crossover between Superman and the Legion of Superheroes and Mark Millar's Red Son mini-series.

Both were absolutely fantastic. 9 or 10/10 for both stories.

-Pr-
Originally posted by willRules
Initially I thought it might be that I'm not a big Superman fan and therefore too compromised in my bias. However, I just picked up Geoff John's crossover between Superman and the Legion of Superheroes and Mark Millar's Red Son mini-series.

Both were absolutely fantastic. 9 or 10/10 for both stories.

i just don't understand how you can't like Superman Beyond.

Galvaclaw
Superman Beyond is so good that it doesn't need Final crisis, but Final crisis needs it. Morrison describes it as his best Superman story and I'd agree with him him. It's one of my favourite comic books stories.

It's not for everyone, but calling a story where a giant robot Superman fights a cosmic vampire for the fate of all stories not fun? Well, we must have different definitions of fun.

Maybe a comic that has allusions to plato, M theory and meta fiction in general isn't fun for you guys, but it's fun for me.

For the people who use convoluted: For gods sake use a dictionary. It means intricate or complicated. The word on its own has no negative or positive meaning. The correct phrase would be it is too convoluted.

That however gives credence to the original assertion of Final crisis fans. You didn't understand it. You are complaining that the story was too complicated for you. So choose your words more carefully.

theICONiac
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
For the people who use convoluted: For gods sake use a dictionary. It means intricate or complicated. The word on its own has no negative or positive meaning. The correct phrase would be it is too convoluted.

For the people who think they know what convoluted means: For gods sake use a dictionary. It means unnecessarily complicated. The word on its own has a negative meaning. The incorrect phrase would be it is too convoluted, as that is a double-negative.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
That however gives credence to the original assertion of Final crisis fans. You didn't understand it. You are complaining that the story was too complicated for you. So choose your words more carefully.

That however gives no credence to the original assertion of Final crisis fans. It can be complicated while still being understood. So choose your words more carefully.

willRules
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Superman Beyond is so good that it doesn't need Final crisis, but Final crisis needs it. Morrison describes it as his best Superman story and I'd agree with him him. It's one of my favourite comic books stories.

It's not for everyone, but calling a story where a giant robot Superman fights a cosmic vampire for the fate of all stories not fun? Well, we must have different definitions of fun.

Maybe a comic that has allusions to plato, M theory and meta fiction in general isn't fun for you guys, but it's fun for me.

We most certainly have different definitions of fun. I prefer the super hero zombie kind. big grin

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
For the people who use convoluted: For gods sake use a dictionary. It means intricate or complicated. The word on its own has no negative or positive meaning. The correct phrase would be it is too convoluted.

That however gives credence to the original assertion of Final crisis fans. You didn't understand it. You are complaining that the story was too complicated for you. So choose your words more carefully.

Please don't patronize me or anyone else. I didn't like Final Crisis because it was TOO CONVOLUTED. I understood the story and still thought it was crap.

Yes it was too complicated. I understood it all. It wasn't too difficult to understand. I still thought it was a bad story.

Please don't be naive enough to think that I didn't like Final Crisis because I thought "Oh this is a complex commentary on meta-fiction and I'm too stupid to understand it therefore it's bad."

People can have different tastes to you and that's OK. I don't know how old you are but I hope for your sake this is a learning curve so you don't make these kind of wild and foolish accusations in a situation later in life where someone won't be as forgiving as me smile

As for the best Morrison Superman story, I preferred All Star Superman. High concepts executed in a much more entertaining manner.

Allankles
Originally posted by theICONiac
What are you disappointed about? What were you expecting? My dislike of FC springs from expectations.

Somehow it feels like I'm reading a story that's up there just making excuses to have super fights. For such a big event the motivations seem weak.

I criticized Secret Invasion for its many pointless brawls and pointless tie ins but the Skrulls at least had a single great motivation for what they were doing.

I don't know, we'll just have to see how things go.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Superman Beyond is so good that it doesn't need Final crisis, but Final crisis needs it. Morrison describes it as his best Superman story and I'd agree with him him. It's one of my favourite comic books stories.

It's not for everyone, but calling a story where a giant robot Superman fights a cosmic vampire for the fate of all stories not fun? Well, we must have different definitions of fun.

Maybe a comic that has allusions to plato, M theory and meta fiction in general isn't fun for you guys, but it's fun for me.

I agree, Superman Beyond was a wonderful piece of work and truly an example of where Morrison shines as a writer. It gives a life to the idea of meta-fiction and succeeds at being a story at the same time. Frankly the story should have been more important to the main book rather than getting a handful of anti-climactic panels.

Galvaclaw

theICONiac

Galvaclaw
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/convoluted?view=uk

The oxford dictionary seems to agree with me. So your one source that disagrees with me makes me an arse? I'd say you've lost the argument when you resort to name calling. Since when were personal attacks and rewording my posts a valid counter argument? What a fine job of arguing you've done. I haven't seen this low a calibre of eloquence outside of 4chan in sometime.

I'm done here. At some point the conversation changed from discussing the merits of Final crisis to the bad man implied we weren't as smart as him. It's a waste of time for both us to continue trading insults.

Symmetric Chaos
You're both morons.

Convoluted means to rolled up longitudinally so as to form overlapping whorls.

theICONiac
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/convoluted?view=uk

The oxford dictionary seems to agree with me. So your one source that disagrees with me makes me an arse? I'd say you've lost the argument when you resort to name calling. Since when were personal attacks and rewording my posts a valid counter argument? What a fine job of arguing you've done. I haven't seen this low a calibre of eloquence outside of 4chan in sometime.

I'm done here. At some point the conversation changed from discussing the merits of Final crisis to the bad man implied we weren't as smart as him. It's a waste of time for both us to continue trading insults.

You started it there, Professor...

willRules
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Let's forget for a second my first post in this thread concerned those who disliked Final crisis refusing to accept it wasn't objectively bad. I'll look at your 'advice' first.

Really though, attacking my age and claiming that my forum posting habits will inhibit my success in later life? Is that really the best you have?

Do act I act the same in real life as I do on this board? Of course not. I'm more respectful in real life and not because I'm some internet tough guy, it is because the people I have meaningful contact with are my friends or colleagues. You are not my friend, I don't know you or care about one way or the other. Which is why I have no need to placate you or attempt to get on your good side.

When have I suggested that Final crisis functions as a intelligence test, with which we can neatly divide our fandom into a smart half and a stupid half? However, the sheer venom directed at Final crisis is very telling.

Fine, you understood. I get that you prefer more straight forward storytelling, Never the less you can't deny that a large percentage of the people who didn't like it did so because they didn't understand it. Hence the cries of it being incomprehensible.

You're calling me defensive when the bulk of your response is along the lines of "I'm not as insulting as I am off the message boards."

Well thank goodness for that.

As for you not caring about me.....I'll grin and bear it smile

And I merely brought up your age in response to what I considered to be some patronising and naive statements. If you consider it venomous and defensive to respond to rude statements with my own advice in an attempt to be helpful, then I guess you shouldn't really be throwing dictionary definitions at people, should you?

But you don't have to worry (not that you do, clearly.) I won't respond anymore. Like you, I'm also not that bothered by this conversation. Unlike you I do care whether people find me defensive, patronising or rude or not, whether it be on or off of a message board so I'll leave the thread to stop my side of the arguing.

Blanket
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
*internet tough guy*

Fixed

comicfan11
As far as events go I think that FC was the best I have ever read.

That is if you read the Morrison tie ins also (essentially the TPB and the 2 Batman issues).
Difficult to understand?-No
Very different than the usual slugfest events like SI?-Yes (we were lucky at that)

As for BN. let's be serious it's only been 2 ISSUES!!!
How the hell are supposed to compare one complete story and one that's just starting.

Ans as an Aquaman (Orin) fan I have every reason to be far more excited for BN but that won't change my view for FC, even if BN is proven to be better (that would also make BN automatically the best event ever replacing FC for me)

theICONiac
Originally posted by comicfan11
As for BN. let's be serious it's only been 2 ISSUES!!!
How the hell are supposed to compare one complete story and one that's just starting.

I think there are a few things you can compare, even after only 2 issues.

The biggest one is the buildup to both series. So far, BN is (for me anyway) living up to its 2yr hype (that in itself has got to be a first...unless someone can correct me no other storyline in comics has had such an advertised buildup lasting 2yrs).

FC, on the other hand, had a bizarre, ill-defined buildup. Like the red-herring posters (...And Evil Shall Inherit The Earth) showing Superman Prime (in black costume) conversing with Kingdom Come Superman and Cyborg (Hank Henshaw) Superman. confused

Allankles
Originally posted by comicfan11
As far as events go I think that FC was the best I have ever read.

That is if you read the Morrison tie ins also (essentially the TPB and the 2 Batman issues).
Difficult to understand?-No
Very different than the usual slugfest events like SI?-Yes (we were lucky at that)

As for BN. let's be serious it's only been 2 ISSUES!!!
How the hell are supposed to compare one complete story and one that's just starting.

Ans as an Aquaman (Orin) fan I have every reason to be far more excited for BN but that won't change my view for FC, even if BN is proven to be better (that would also make BN automatically the best event ever replacing FC for me)

Oh yes. FC was just good story telling, a good story is carried by the content of the action and there was plenty of content. It may not have been brawl after brawl but there was plenty going on (and there was a fair amount of brawling regardless).

- The ALE triggered across all means (electronic and biological).
-Billions of humans having their souls hollowed out, including the Spectre itself.
-Heroes and humans being possessed by dark gods.

-DC's no.1 black ops/espionage super group (checkmate) activating humanities' ultimate failsafe, to be unleashed only when the world is ending.

-Heroes sacrificing their very souls to save villains and their families.
-Creation itself crumbling and being twisted by the ultimate oppressor.

This was DC's biblical apocalypse, nothing like this was done before (except of course Rock of Ages which was unsurprisingly done by the same guy, but that wasn't as significant an event, nor did it have as big a cast).

comicfan11
Originally posted by theICONiac
I think there are a few things you can compare, even after only 2 issues.

The biggest one is the buildup to both series. So far, BN is (for me anyway) living up to its 2yr hype (that in itself has got to be a first...unless someone can correct me no other storyline in comics has had such an advertised buildup lasting 2yrs).

FC, on the other hand, had a bizarre, ill-defined buildup. Like the red-herring posters (...And Evil Shall Inherit The Earth) showing Superman Prime (in black costume) conversing with Kingdom Come Superman and Cyborg (Hank Henshaw) Superman. confused

I'll give you that.
DC and Didio did everything they could to royally **** up Morrison's vision.
Even Quesada couldn't do it better.
That was not a build up to an event. It was road to ruin.
When Morrison asked that the New Gods be off limits a certain DC Editor and his merry band of j@ck@sses did the exact opposite and started using them as often as they could.

By saying FC as an event I don't include crap like Countdown and the abomination that is Death of the New Gods.
Hell Didio even went to the whole "Naaah the Hawks didn't die in FC. They were just injured." just to satisfy Johns. THIS IS MONTY PYTHON LEVEL MADNESS and in a very cheap and bad way.

So basically FC is an AMAZING achievement if you take into consideration that DC unintentionally boycotted it's own event.

The same can't be said for BN though because DC is all over the place trying to make certain that Johns has all his wishes obeyed.

And yes you can't compare a whole event with 2 issues (plus some tie ins) no matter what. You simply can't. Unless you are a prophet or something. Because for all it's hyping (and as I said before I reaaaaly enjoy BN) and the 2 first amazing issues BN might turn out to be another Secret Invasion and that event is not even in the same league as FC.

comicfan11
Originally posted by Allankles
Oh yes. FC was just good story telling, a good story is carried by the content of the action and there was plenty of content. It may not have been brawl after brawl but there was plenty going on (and there was a fair amount of brawling regardless).

- The ALE triggered across all means (electronic and biological).
-Billions of humans having their souls hollowed out, including the Spectre itself.
-Heroes and humans being possessed by dark gods.

-DC's no.1 black ops/espionage super group (checkmate) activating humanities' ultimate failsafe, to be unleashed only when the world is ending.

-Heroes sacrificing their very souls to save villains and their families.
-Creation itself crumbling and being twisted by the ultimate oppressor.

This was DC's biblical apocalypse, nothing like this was done before (except of course Rock of Ages which was unsurprisingly done by the same guy, but that wasn't as significant an event, nor did it have as big a cast).

I agree it was the most dense big event storyline I've read. Issues 4-6 were beyond sick. Darkseid rising and the multiverse going to hell with all the heroes helpless=pure comic book gold.

outavodka
but he failed how many times is this. i kinda hoped..hed ukno win this time

comicfan11
Originally posted by outavodka
but he failed how many times is this. i kinda hoped..hed ukno win this time

???

In FC he brought the entire Universe to it's knees and had earth under his control for nearly a month.
What else did you want?

theICONiac
Originally posted by comicfan11
???

In FC he brought the entire Universe to it's knees and had earth under his control for nearly a month.
What else did you want?

How about the promised changes DC was hyping?

COIE destroyed the multiverse.

IC restored it.

FC...uh...did away with the Monitors...and thats about it...

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by theICONiac
FC...uh...did away with the Monitors...and thats about it...

Considering the Monitors had been around for just a few years at that point it's even more irrelevant.

theICONiac
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Considering the Monitors had been around for just a few years at that point it's even more irrelevant.

Absolutely.

The CONVOLUTED storyline coupled with the lack of change at the end make FC a really lame-duck ending to the trilogy.

Like I said before, if FC was just some mini-series thrown into the DC Universe (like Marvel's Civil War or WWH) it may have not received anywhere near the disdain a lot of the DC faithful heap on it.

But it was supposed to be the 'ultimate' finale to the trilogy of 'Crisis's'. DC even went so far to compare it to the Lord of the Rings trilogy. I gathered from that statement that FC would have a comparable conclusion similar to Return of the King....COIE (FOTR) and IC (TT) were awesome but FC (ROTK) was the final - and best - installment in the overall storyline...and provided the most impact.

It simply did not live up to its predecessors in terms of impact. Maybe if Batman stayed dead it would - in a small way - justify itself.

Galan007
it seems like a few people have gripes about the entirety of final crisis, mainly because of the last issue alone. meaning: the last issue was so jam packed/cluster f*cked with material, that it literally could have constituted 2-3 issues all by itself. for some, that seems to have left a bad enough taste in their mouth(s) that it made them not enjoy the rest of what FC had to offer.

but what you have to *try* to do is think about FC as a whole it's when you take those into account that you can better appreciate the rather amazing story that was FC. take "superman: beyond" and "revelations" - not only were those two stories beautifully written, but they actually 'tied-in' to the main story, like 'tie-ins' should do.

imo, the FC tie-ins + FC itself = win.

Allankles
Originally posted by theICONiac
How about the promised changes DC was hyping?

COIE destroyed the multiverse.

COIE was reconstituting the silver age structure. As a story on its own, it was average.

Originally posted by theICONiac
IC restored it.

Same thing with Infinite Crisis. The story was just an excuse to set up a sensible structure to DC's mainline universe. The story again, was not that good.

Originally posted by theICONiac
FC...uh...did away with the Monitors...and thats about it...

FC had those monickers "the day evil won", and it lived up to them partially - if not entirely to the satisfaction of a few people (although I think you'd have to be overly optimistic to expect evil to win completely in the mainline continuity, without some lame "reset" plot device) .

The difference between FC and the other Crisis with the exception of Identity Crisis is that FC was actually a good story. A plot created primarily for entertainment purposes, and not an excuse just to organize the universe by the DC editorial.

FC set a benchmark of how to write a big event crossover imo. Focus on the juicy bits of the story, and avoid unnecessary tie-ins whose main agenda is not to build on the main plot.

Basically to me FC was like a tribute to interesting and ambitious story telling in comics, and of course it was a tribute to other things as well, like past artists, past great ideas/stories etc.

HueyFreeman
Originally posted by Allankles
COIE was reconstituting the silver age structure. As a story on its own, it was average.



Same thing with Infinite Crisis. The story was just an excuse to set up a sensible structure to DC's mainline universe. The story again, was not that good.



FC had those monickers "the day evil won", and it lived up to them partially - if not entirely to the satisfaction of a few people (although I think you'd have to be overly optimistic to expect evil to win completely in the mainline continuity, without some lame "reset" plot device) .

The difference between FC and the other Crisis with the exception of Identity Crisis is that FC was actually a good story. A plot created primarily for entertainment purposes, and not an excuse just to organize the universe by the DC editorial.

FC set a benchmark of how to write a big event crossover imo. Focus on the juicy bits of the story, and avoid unnecessary tie-ins whose main agenda is not to build on the main plot.

Basically to me FC was like a tribute to interesting and ambitious story telling in comics, and of course it was a tribute to other things as well, like past artists, past great ideas/stories etc.

theICONiac
Originally posted by Allankles
FC set a benchmark of how to write a big event crossover imo. Focus on the juicy bits of the story, and avoid unnecessary tie-ins whose main agenda is not to build on the main plot.

Avoid unnecessary tie-in's?? You cannot understand the story without the tie-in's!

Originally posted by Allankles
Basically to me FC was like a tribute to interesting and ambitious story telling in comics, and of course it was a tribute to other things as well, like past artists, past great ideas/stories etc.

Besides you and a few others, who was DC's target audience in this? Certainly not new fans to DC...

tjcoady
Originally posted by theICONiac
Avoid unnecessary tie-in's?? You cannot understand the story without the tie-in's!



Besides you and a few others, who was DC's target audience in this? Certainly not new fans to DC...

The only tie-in you need to read is "Beyond."

The target audience is the same people as every other crisis. It's not like IC would have been clear to a new fan either.

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