Being a Juggalo is now considered a religion

wicker_man

Originally posted by inimalist
riding the coattails of someone far more talented and popular than they are?

Actually you'll find ICP were round a good few years before Eminem. As far as I'm aware (and I'm not really an Urban music fan) the feud came round when Eminem (in his early, early days) was handing out flyers advertising a show featuring both ICP and himself (amongst others) without the acknowledgement of ICP themselves. Petty, I know but that's how it began, nout to do with popularity and attention.

wicker_man

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Ok, please tell me why. The reason I ask is that it sounds like you are suggesting that something has happened to make a music group (other then the Beatles) into a religion.

The Beatles don't deserve martyrdom status either, despite all the fanboy rants of blinkered critics and fans alike.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by wicker_man
The Beatles don't deserve martyrdom status either, despite all the fanboy rants of blinkered critics and fans alike.

But that does not answer the question.

BTW the Beatles commit was just a joke.

inimalist

Originally posted by wicker_man
Actually you'll find ICP were round a good few years before Eminem. As far as I'm aware (and I'm not really an Urban music fan) the feud came round when Eminem (in his early, early days) was handing out flyers advertising a show featuring both ICP and himself (amongst others) without the acknowledgement of ICP themselves. Petty, I know but that's how it began, nout to do with popularity and attention.

huh, never heard of that

I knew ICP were around for longer, just, you know, not nearly as talented as eminem. I falsely assumed they started the beef, /shrug

wicker_man

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But that does not answer the question.

BTW the Beatles commit was just a joke.

You're talking to someone whose been to so many gigs where at least 3/4 of the crowd may as well be cult followers given their boarder line creepy devotion to 'em.

wicker_man

Originally posted by inimalist
huh, never heard of that

I knew ICP were around for longer, just, you know, not nearly as talented as eminem. I falsely assumed they started the beef, /shrug

Well that's a matter of opinion. Personally I think of Eminem as no more than a whiny-brat whose angst ridden attitude is nothing that's not been seen many times before. And well the whole white rapper was done with (actual) style and quality a good four years before coursety of Vanilla Ice.

inimalist

Originally posted by wicker_man
Well that's a matter of opinion. Personally I think of Eminem as no more than a whiny-brat whose angst ridden attitude is nothing that's not been seen many times before. And well the whole white rapper was done with (actual) style and quality a good four years before coursety of Vanilla Ice.

lol, fair enough, and I'd say most stuff post Marshal Mathers LP, ya, he just whines about being a pop-icon. The stuff he did on that album, but especially before that, honestly, some of the best rap produced in that era, imho of course.

I'm really not a fan of Eminem because he is white, nor do I have any affinity for such "token" sorts of artists. Vanilla Ice? lol, dude, the Beastie Boys

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by wicker_man
You're talking to someone whose been to so many gigs where at least 3/4 of the crowd may as well be cult followers given their boarder line creepy devotion to 'em.

But that isn't a religion. As soon as the next thing comes alone...

Symmetric Chaos

Juggling is not a religion, sorry.

wicker_man

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But that isn't a religion. As soon as the next thing comes alone...

As much as I dislike ICP I'd hardly call Juggalos a passing fad. After all ICP haven't really bothered charts or filled stadiums and Juggalos in their defence are pretty obsessive and loyal when it comes to ICP, and most have been around since ICPs inception back in the late 80s.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by wicker_man
As much as I dislike ICP I'd hardly call Juggalos a passing fad. After all ICP haven't really bothered charts or filled stadiums and Juggalos in their defence are pretty obsessive and loyal when it comes to ICP, and most have been around since ICPs inception back in the late 80s.

Then those people will have kids, and their kids will not like what their parents like, so they will end up playing in fairs and Las Vegas. Still not a religion.

wicker_man

Originally posted by inimalist
lol, fair enough, and I'd say most stuff post Marshal Mathers LP, ya, he just whines about being a pop-icon. The stuff he did on that album, but especially before that, honestly, some of the best rap produced in that era, imho of course.

I'm really not a fan of Eminem because he is white, nor do I have any affinity for such "token" sorts of artists. Vanilla Ice? lol, dude, the Beastie Boys

Well Rappers and Hip-Hop artists have never really held high regard in my eyes - mostly due to its lyrical content and vocal stylings.
The Vanilla Ice statement was just my (feeble) attempt at humour, so apologies.
True Eminem probably was the the first white rapper to take his vocation seriously, but some of his stuff I can't help but feel he may be acting up on.
And well the Beastie Boys are a law onto themself, and anyone who can get Kerry King of Slayer in their video and Rick Rubin to produce their albums is ok in my books.

inimalist

Originally posted by wicker_man
Well Rappers and Hip-Hop artists have never really held high regard in my eyes - mostly due to its lyrical content and vocal stylings.
The Vanilla Ice statement was just my (feeble) attempt at humour, so apologies.
True Eminem probably was the the first white rapper to take his vocation seriously, but some of his stuff I can't help but feel he may be acting up on.
And well the Beastie Boys are a law onto themself, and anyone who can get Kerry King of Slayer in their video and Rick Rubin to produce their albums is ok in my books.

I'd say the Beasties were the first white rappers, but I don't think that is really a significant feat. Much like how I don't think "first black..." or "first woman..." are very important distinctions.

But ya, they are a phenomenon, have you heard their jazzy instrumental album?

wicker_man

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then those people will have kids, and their kids will not like what their parents like, so they will end up playing in fairs and Las Vegas. Still not a religion.

So just because their parents like it means the children automatically won't? There's no logic behind that what-so-ever. For I've seen many examples of parents and their offspring indulging in the same bands be they classics like say Motorhead or Crass to newer bands like MSI and Slipknot.

And I'm pretty sure they (ICP) still play fairly decent size venues, and you have to take into account worldwide audiences that may not have the chance to go to their concerts. Just because they're not there doesn't make 'em any less of a fan or in this case a Juggalo.

wicker_man

Originally posted by inimalist
I'd say the Beasties were the first white rappers, but I don't think that is really a significant feat. Much like how I don't think "first black..." or "first woman..." are very important distinctions.

But ya, they are a phenomenon, have you heard their jazzy instrumental album?

I've heard most Beatles stuff; mostly by people desperately attempting to get me to change my views but alas to no success.

Bottom line is I percieve the Beatles as a band who were in the right place at the right time. They are no more than a glorified boyband (screaming teenage girls anyone???)who with the right mangement (bit like Manchester City of Chelsea then) went places. There were so many bands during their time and beyond who are technically superior to The Beatles in pretty much all musical areas.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by wicker_man
So just because their parents like it means the children automatically won't? There's no logic behind that what-so-ever. For I've seen many examples of parents and their offspring indulging in the same bands be they classics like say Motorhead or Crass to newer bands like MSI and Slipknot.

And I'm pretty sure they (ICP) still play fairly decent size venues, and you have to take into account worldwide audiences that may not have the chance to go to their concerts. Just because they're not there doesn't make 'em any less of a fan or in this case a Juggalo.

Just general rebellion.

Also, to me, Motorhead is not a classic. laughing

The Moody Blues would be a classic.

wicker_man

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Just general rebellion.

Also, to me, Motorhead is not a classic. laughing

The Moody Blues would be a classic.

If you don't think Motorhead are classic or at least iconic then clearly you know nothing of music. You only have to go into Top Shop or New Look to see (shameless) copies of the infamous Snaggletooth adorned on purposely worn t-shirts. And whilst I love The Moody Blues they're nowhere near as famous or iconic as Lemmy and co.

And merely stating "Just general rebellion." proves you again know nothing of music or at the very least haven't seen enough live bands.

inimalist

Originally posted by wicker_man
There were so many bands during their time and beyond who are technically superior to The Beatles in pretty much all musical areas.

Being technical is only part of any art. I can program the most technical drum section ever, but it doesn't make the track I produce better than one with a standard 4/4 kick and drum loop. Minimal is good smile

else, why doesn't everyone listen to Venetian Snares or other experimental IDM/electronic? You would be hard pressed to find more technically complex sounds than that scene, though much of it becomes so technical and noisy that it loses much of what music is supposed to do in the first place, imho. And I don't mean his poppy-jungle stuff, I'm talking "Winter in the Belly of a Snake".

blah, this is the second thread I've gotten into music discussions in, maybe I should just pick the right forum, lol!

EDIT: By jazzy instrumental album, I meant the Beasties, and not the Beatles. The White Album does something for me, but not much else of the Beatles. Its good, but not my scene, and I don't think they were as diverse as they could have been. Like you said, lots of other acts were pushing the envelope in more ways at the time, though I wouldn't take anything away from the Beatles.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by wicker_man
If you don't think Motorhead are classic or at least iconic then clearly you know nothing of music. You only have to go into Top Shop or New Look to see (shameless) copies of the infamous Snaggletooth adorned on purposely worn t-shirts. And whilst I love The Moody Blues they're nowhere near as famous or iconic as Lemmy and co.

And merely stating "Just general rebellion." proves you again know nothing of music or at the very least haven't seen enough live bands.

Really? Maybe you are not old enough.

Still this thread is in the wrong place.

wicker_man

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Really? Maybe you are not old enough.

Still this thread is in the wrong place.

Old enough to know what I'm talking about, and more to the point back it constructively. Which looking at your posts is more than I can say for you.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by wicker_man
Old enough to know what I'm talking about, and more to the point back it constructively. Which looking at your posts is more than I can say for you.

You are getting my "don't care about your opinion" confused with your ego.

wicker_man

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are getting my "don't care about your opinion" confused with your ego.

Well then stop replying, simple as. Personally I find it a bit rich of you to assume why I'm writing my posts, shall I just assume you're taking this personally? After all you were the one making assumptions about my so-called 'ego' and indeed my sheer caring of what you think. All I'm waiting for is a constructive reply to my posts, which you have failed to do and thus resorted to personal comments.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by wicker_man
Well then stop replying, simple as. Personally I find it a bit rich of you to assume why I'm writing my posts, shall I just assume you're taking this personally? After all you were the one making assumptions about my so-called 'ego' and indeed my sheer caring of what you think. All I'm waiting for is a constructive reply to my posts, which you have failed to do and thus resorted to personal comments.

I make a point and then a joke. You ignore the point and get all tweaked about the joke. You act like you know everything about music, and expect me to be impressed. You still don't get my point. I think you are having a hard time seeing beyond yourself.

Here it is in a nutshell: Bands come and go. Some take more time, but still they go. The Moody Blues in the late 60's and early 70's were a band that had a religious like following. Notice how I'm still on topic. There are still people who like the The Moody Blues, but no one ever asks them to bless their children like they did in the past. Did you know that? Bands that are popular to us now will one day be old foggy music to the generations to come.

wicker_man

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
And what does any of this have to do with the topic of the thread and the RF?

I dunno, after all I was replying to your post, maybe you should have read your post before submitting it.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by wicker_man
I dunno, after all I was replying to your post, maybe you should have read your post before submitting it.

I first asked L!l'!c3y:

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Ok, please tell me why. The reason I ask is that it sounds like you are suggesting that something has happened to make a music group (other then the Beatles) into a religion.

Then you replied:

Originally posted by wicker_man
The Beatles don't deserve martyrdom status either, despite all the fanboy rants of blinkered critics and fans alike.

Like I said:

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I make a point and then a joke. You ignore the point and get all tweaked about the joke. ...

Now you seem to get things out of order as if someone couldn't just go back and check.