Pain vs Raikage

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danteiscool
the Six Paths of Pain take on the raikage in a grueling match. we all know how powerful Pain is and have yet to discover exactly how powerful Raikage (but he's still one badass mofo), but I think this is a good fight.

they fight at the training grounds that Killer Bee and Sasuke fought at.

King Kandy
Just because Sasuke has been doing poorly against Raikage in no way makes him Pain level. It doesn't help that he's shown nothing but physical attacks, which can't really do much against god realm. And his electric aura can be easily absorbed by Pain.

I mean don't get me wrong, Raikage is probably greater than Pain in power, but his abilities don't match up well against him at all.

Kento
Originally posted by King Kandy
Just because Sasuke has been doing poorly against Raikage in no way makes him Pain level. It doesn't help that he's shown nothing but physical attacks, which can't really do much against god realm. And his electric aura can be easily absorbed by Pain.

I mean don't get me wrong, Raikage is probably greater than Pain in power, but his abilities don't match up well against him at all. Pretty much my thoughts

Naija boy
Originally posted by King Kandy
Just because Sasuke has been doing poorly against Raikage in no way makes him Pain level. It doesn't help that he's shown nothing but physical attacks, which can't really do much against god realm. And his electric aura can be easily absorbed by Pain.

I mean don't get me wrong, Raikage is probably greater than Pain in power, but his abilities don't match up well against him at all.

thumb up We have to see some more from raikage before concluding he can take pain.

NemeBro
Raikage wins because he and his brother are the first good characters in a long time.

On a serious note.

Raikage is possibly THE fastest character thus far, with his speed compared to that of the Fourth Hokage, and his physical strength makes Tsunade look weak. Chidori can barely penetrate his skin.

Most of the Pains will be nothing but fodder to him, Deva Realm Pain is the only threat.

King Kandy
Deva can basically just fly for the whole battle.

NemeBro
Originally posted by King Kandy
Deva can basically just fly for the whole battle. Because he certainly did so while fighting Naruto.

Wait...

Naija boy
^yeah but PIS is off on this forum as well i think so its a valid tactic. Deva did a whole lot of plot induced stupid things in the naruto fight hence the reason he lost.

King Kandy
Originally posted by NemeBro
Because he certainly did so while fighting Naruto.

Wait...
Good thing there is no PIS on this forum. Without PIS there were like three different times where Naruto would have been dead in that fight.

For the record, I actually liked Pain as a character. It wasn't until Naruto and him started trading speeches that he got retarded.

NemeBro
Show me him flying when not using his village raping attack(Cannot recall name).

Humor me.

Naija boy
He didnt fly at any other point in time but that isnt indicative of anything at all.

NemeBro
It's indicative that he has only done it once, when using a specific technique.

Naija boy
The technique he used was shinra tensei. Just on a much larger scale. We know however that flying is NOT a prerequisite for using shinra tensei nor is it somehow attached to the techniquw because pain used it numerous times after that without flying.

NemeBro
Because that Shinra Tensei was like all the others, right? Because it definately did not require extra prep and conditions before being used, right?

Wait...

Naija boy
What? All that we know definitevely was that the shinra tensei he used at that point was so powerful required him to concetrate his chakra into Godrealm and that doing so shortened his lifespan. Assuming that his ability to fly was an ability that came with that shinra tensei when no such thing was even alluded to is entirely baseless.

dadudemon
I could have sworn he flew into Konoha when he first started the attack. I'm serious.



Also, Pain takes this, easily, without effort.

The only person I see beating Pain, in an all out fight, is Madara. That's it.....


And apparantly, Jiraiya, if Jiraiya knew Pain's secret.

Not even Naruto can beat Pain in an all out fight. That's not what he and Naruto had. Despite Naruto being the most powerful Ninja in Konoha, now.

Demonic Phoenix
Most powerful Leaf ninja - You're forgetting Danzo and his possesion of the insta-rape technique: Sharingan.

~ In a physical fight, no one is beating Raikage, perhaps not even his bro'.

Deva Path never was one for physical brawls though.

occultdestroyer
Karin said that Raikage's chakra levels are approaching to Tailed Beast levels and still growing.
He certainly is one of the strongest taijitsu users, if not the strongest.

But in a non-PIS scenario, he think he still loses against Pain.
A physical approach can only get you so far, but we'll have to see more from Raikage.
He has to have some really strong ranged attacks, or else he's done for.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Naija boy
What? All that we know definitevely was that the shinra tensei he used at that point was so powerful required him to concetrate his chakra into Godrealm and that doing so shortened his lifespan. Assuming that his ability to fly was an ability that came with that shinra tensei when no such thing was even alluded to is entirely baseless. The notion that he can fly besides that one specific instance of an attack is completely baseless. smile

And dadudemon, afraid not, on the flying into Konoha I mean, he actually just had one of his bodies throw Animal Realm I think it was into Konoha...Why do that if he can fly when he wants?

The notion that Raikage is taken out by Pain without effort is laughable.

Excluding Deva, his bodies are fodder, pure and simple, and will be torn to pieces by the Raikage, which he is very much capable of, being quite possibly the fastest character thus far, except Madara.

That said.

The Raikage's incredibly physical prowess will probably not be enough to take out Deva Realm Pain.

Kento
Fodder really? So fodder can easily take on Jiraiya?

And what would Raikage really do with Pein running around invisible?

King Kandy
I disagree that the peins are all fodder. The animal realm pain was fighting with Jiraiya on very equal footing, and the preta pain was giving Naruto serious trouble as well w/ his absorbing powers. The machine pain has shit durability but has done some awesome destruction feats.

Also they can be reused infinitely as long as they can protect the reviving pain.

If Nagato is included in this fight then Raikage is in serious trouble because if he's stabbed with one of the rods Nagato can control him.

Naija boy
Originally posted by NemeBro
The notion that he can fly besides that one specific instance of an attack is completely baseless. smile



No thats absolutely retarded . We were told the conditions that surrounded that attack. He had to concentrate all his chakra into one body,his lifespan was shortened,and he couldnt use shinra tensei for a prolonged period. ALL of these conditions were specifically mentioned. Ur assumption that him flying must have also been a prerequisite of that attack is nonsensical speculation. It is based on nothing as it was never even alluded to let alone mentioned specifically as the other conditions were. Your whole argument is fallacious.

yungz22
What if Raikage were to blitz him in the beginning of the fight since there is no PIS.

Also i dont think God realm can fly during his intervals so if he wants to fly up there as long as you guys say he can he wont be able to attack so hed just be sitting up there.

Kento
Originally posted by yungz22
What if Raikage were to blitz him in the beginning of the fight since there is no PIS.

Also i dont think God realm can fly during his intervals so if he wants to fly up there as long as you guys say he can he wont be able to attack so hed just be sitting up there. Or he could just fly up and use the Chou Shinra Tensei..or whatever. The only reason the people that survived did survive was because of being inside Katsuya and Tsunade healing them while they were.

yungz22
Originally posted by Kento
Or he could just fly up and use the Chou Shinra Tensei..or whatever. The only reason the people that survived did survive was because of being inside Katsuya and Tsunade healing them while they were.
that may be true but who knows all im saying is that the no PIS thing could go both ways what with raikage able to use the equivalent to the yellow flash's technique

Kento
Originally posted by yungz22
that may be true but who knows all im saying is that the no PIS thing could go both ways what with raikage able to use the equivalent to the yellow flash's technique But why would Raikage be compared to Hirashin? Minato was extremely fast even without it. And full-powered Pein isn't a slouch in speed himself. Plus he has the summon that can make him invisible if he really wanted.

dadudemon
Yeah, I still don't see how Raikage isn't anything but toast against Pain.



I'd put Naruto's durability in Sage mode against Raikage's lightenting amped durability. I would give Raikage a slight edge in durability, though.

EvilAngel
Originally posted by NemeBro
Raikage wins because he and his brother are the first good characters in a long time.

On a serious note.

Raikage is possibly THE fastest character thus far, with his speed compared to that of the Fourth Hokage, and his physical strength makes Tsunade look weak. Chidori can barely penetrate his skin.

Most of the Pains will be nothing but fodder to him, Deva Realm Pain is the only threat.

The fastest?
Can i as why it is you believe him to be so fast?

Or why you think of him to be so strong?

yungz22
Originally posted by Kento
But why would Raikage be compared to Hirashin? Minato was extremely fast even without it. And full-powered Pein isn't a slouch in speed himself. Plus he has the summon that can make him invisible if he really wanted.
they compared him to the 4th because he is just as fast.

Kento
Originally posted by yungz22
they compared him to the 4th because he is just as fast. Yes they compared his speed to Minato's...not to the technique. Minato was extremely fast without Hirashin also.

King Kandy
Originally posted by EvilAngel
The fastest?
Can i as why it is you believe him to be so fast?

Or why you think of him to be so strong?
Well, he dodged Amaterasu which hits as soon as you see the target...

NemeBro
Originally posted by EvilAngel
The fastest?
Can i as why it is you believe him to be so fast?

Or why you think of him to be so strong? His speed is compared to the Fourth's and he dodged Amaterasu.

As for his strength, idk, the fact that he was actually able to physically damage Susano?

EvilAngel
Originally posted by King Kandy
Well, he dodged Amaterasu which hits as soon as you see the target...

That's not accurate.

It follows the eyes path, it isn't as fast as sight. Or it would be light speed.

From what we saw of Sasuke vs Killerbee and Sasuke vs Itachi fight I'd say in terms of speed it's only as fast as most other flames.


Originally posted by NemeBro
His speed is compared to the Fourth's and he dodged Amaterasu.

As for his strength, idk, the fact that he was actually able to physically damage Susano?

Compared to the fourths? So what? What have you seen him do?

Tbh from what we've seen he's not even Rock Lee fast, never mind the Fourth hokage. The ninja who when seen there were orders to retreat. Even hinting the Raikage is close to such a level would be generous.


And has Tsunade hit Susanoo before so we can compare power of attacks?

NemeBro
Originally posted by EvilAngel
Compared to the fourths? So what? What have you seen him do?

Tbh from what we've seen he's not even Rock Lee fast, never mind the Fourth hokage. The ninja who when seen there were orders to retreat. Even hinting the Raikage is close to such a level would be generous.


And has Tsunade hit Susanoo before so we can compare power of attacks? The Fourth's single most praised attribute was the speed that he used in combat with his Flying Thunder God technique, so great was it that a flee on site order was given to Shinobi during the Great Ninja Wars. He has been stated to not only be that level, but to be faster than Killer Bee by KB himself, whose speed overwhelmed Sasuke.

No, Susano did kinda take Kirin, which hits much harder than any attack Tsunade has produced.

King Kandy
Originally posted by EvilAngel
That's not accurate.

It follows the eyes path, it isn't as fast as sight. Or it would be light speed.

From what we saw of Sasuke vs Killerbee and Sasuke vs Itachi fight I'd say in terms of speed it's only as fast as most other flames.
You can argue that but it is said to burn whatever it is that you see:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/03/

A databook stated it burned something the instant it was reflected on the users retina, also.

EvilAngel
Originally posted by NemeBro
The Fourth's single most praised attribute was the speed that he used in combat with his Flying Thunder God technique, so great was it that a flee on site order was given to Shinobi during the Great Ninja Wars. He has been stated to not only be that level, but to be faster than Killer Bee by KB himself, whose speed overwhelmed Sasuke.

No, Susano did kinda take Kirin, which hits much harder than any attack Tsunade has produced.

Faster than the Fourth?

The only guy who even might be on that level is Madara. I'd like scans or something on this if you have them =)

Oh, and Killerbee wasn't fast. His attacks were simply very unusual. Who holds a sword between their legs for pete's sake? ;p


Okay..... so the Susanoo when Itachi controlled it is exactly the same as when Sasuke controlled it?

When two ninja perform the same technique, is it exactly the same?

EvilAngel
Originally posted by King Kandy
You can argue that but it is said to burn whatever it is that you see:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/03/

A databook stated it burned something the instant it was reflected on the users retina, also.

The very next page disproves that to be true.

They follow what the user is looking at, but don't appear there instantly. Or Sasuke would be a pile of ash, and Itachi would be wishing he held back a little as he lies on his deathbed.

NemeBro
Originally posted by EvilAngel
Faster than the Fourth?

The only guy who even might be on that level is Madara. I'd like scans or something on this if you have them =)

Oh, and Killerbee wasn't fast. His attacks were simply very unusual. Who holds a sword between their legs for pete's sake? ;p


Okay..... so the Susanoo when Itachi controlled it is exactly the same as when Sasuke controlled it?

When two ninja perform the same technique, is it exactly the same? Faster? No, comparable however.

Madara has already been confirmed by Kakashi, the Fourth's star pupil, to be even better than the Fourth at the same kind of justu. A scan? You mean of it being stated he was as fast as the Fourth?

I may be wording this wrong, his reflexes are on the same level, not movement speed, that sound better?

Killer Bee has been calced to be one of the fastest in Naruto...The only calc that is higher is one for Pain, who was only faster by a small amount. KB was like mach 1.7, Pain was mach 2. I am pretty sure even Sasuke commented on KB's speed.



Exactly the same? No, Sasuke only had the shield aspect at the time, and Sasuke's control over his MS has been hinted to be greater than Itachi's...Which is pretty gay I admit.

EvilAngel
Originally posted by NemeBro
Faster? No, comparable however.

Madara has already been confirmed by Kakashi, the Fourth's star pupil, to be even better than the Fourth at the same kind of justu. A scan? You mean of it being stated he was as fast as the Fourth?

I may be wording this wrong, his reflexes are on the same level, not movement speed, that sound better?

Killer Bee has been calced to be one of the fastest in Naruto...The only calc that is higher is one for Pain, who was only faster by a small amount. KB was like mach 1.7, Pain was mach 2. I am pretty sure even Sasuke commented on KB's speed.



Exactly the same? No, Sasuke only had the shield aspect at the time, and Sasuke's control over his MS has been hinted to be greater than Itachi's...Which is pretty gay I admit.

I don't see how you can make such a comparison. Or why it is relevent other than to overhype a character. Until i see something solid on which to base such an arguement, it's not something i will take into consideration.

Calculated? Interesting i haven't heard of anything of the sor. Can i ask by whom?


I understand they were using different powers of Susanoo, so you can no longer claim Tsunade is physically weaker than the Raikage now. Isn't that right?

NemeBro
Originally posted by EvilAngel
I don't see how you can make such a comparison. Or why it is relevent other than to overhype a character. Until i see something solid on which to base such an arguement, it's not something i will take into consideration.

Calculated? Interesting i haven't heard of anything of the sor. Can i ask by whom?


I understand they were using different powers of Susanoo, so you can no longer claim Tsunade is physically weaker than the Raikage now. Isn't that right? Considering his reflex feats, it is not unlikely.

On another forum, the OBD.


I can claim whatever I bloody like. estahuh

Raikage is cooler, therefore he is stronger. 131

EvilAngel
Originally posted by NemeBro
Considering his reflex feats, it is not unlikely.

On another forum, the OBD.


I can claim whatever I bloody like. estahuh

Raikage is cooler, therefore he is stronger. 131

....... Reflex feats? ...... ehhh, i don't see how that really helps him against Pain. He's not all that physically fast.


Uh huh ;p Imo Soul Pain pulls a cheap one and eats his soul. Stupid Konohamaru....

NemeBro
Originally posted by EvilAngel
....... Reflex feats? ...... ehhh, i don't see how that really helps him against Pain. He's not all that physically fast.


Uh huh ;p Imo Soul Pain pulls a cheap one and eats his soul. Stupid Konohamaru.... Fast enough to keep Sasuke on the defensive and dodge a point-blank blast from Juugo.



Soul Pain will have his rib-cage punched out if he tries to get that close IMHO...Other than Deva Realm, the Pains are fodder. Although Deva should win this himself.

EvilAngel
Originally posted by NemeBro
Fast enough to keep Sasuke on the defensive and dodge a point-blank blast from Juugo.



Soul Pain will have his rib-cage punched out if he tries to get that close IMHO...Other than Deva Realm, the Pains are fodder. Although Deva should win this himself.


It was hardly his speed that kept Sasuke on the defensive. And Juugo speed feats anyone?


You're right. Deva solo's ;p

NemeBro
Originally posted by EvilAngel
It was hardly his speed that kept Sasuke on the defensive. And Juugo speed feats anyone?


You're right. Deva solo's ;p Well without speed Sasuke should be able to effortlessly dodge and stab him in the face. stick out tongue Juugo speed feats, no, but it was an attack fired from like a foot away, one with a decent sized blast radius.

Indeed.

EvilAngel
Originally posted by NemeBro
Well without speed Sasuke should be able to effortlessly dodge and stab him in the face. stick out tongue Juugo speed feats, no, but it was an attack fired from like a foot away, one with a decent sized blast radius.

Indeed.

No, he was fast enough to keep with with Sasuke, but it was his power that kept Sasuke on defense.

NemeBro
Originally posted by EvilAngel
No, he was fast enough to keep with with Sasuke, but it was his power that kept Sasuke on defense. Sasuke is as fast or faster than Lee, ALONG with having Sharingan, speaks well for Raikage's speed IMO.

EvilAngel
Originally posted by NemeBro
Sasuke is as fast or faster than Lee, ALONG with having Sharingan, speaks well for Raikage's speed IMO.

You say that but where in the fight did Sasuke use said speed?

NemeBro
Why would Sasuke lose his speed in one fight?

He did not use his movement speed, but why would he lose his reaction-time?

EvilAngel
Originally posted by NemeBro
Why would Sasuke lose his speed in one fight?

He did not use his movement speed, but why would he lose his reaction-time?

I never said he did. But you seemed to imply movement speed when you bring Rock Lee into this.

King Kandy
Originally posted by EvilAngel
Oh, and Killerbee wasn't fast. His attacks were simply very unusual. Who holds a sword between their legs for pete's sake? ;p
He was fast. very fast:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/412/015/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/412/016/

Look at how far out of there he got, and they couldn't even see him moving at all.

NemeBro
Originally posted by EvilAngel
I never said he did. But you seemed to imply movement speed when you bring Rock Lee into this. Both Sasuke and Lee have incredibly reaction-time as well.

Also, EA, have you heard?

EvilAngel
Originally posted by NemeBro
Both Sasuke and Lee have incredibly reaction-time as well.

Also, EA, have you heard?

I know that but that's not how i thought you meant.


I've heard allot of things, which one are you talking about?

NemeBro
Originally posted by EvilAngel
I know that but that's not how i thought you meant.


I've heard allot of things, which one are you talking about? Fair enough.

You mean you haven't heard? But...Everybody's heard, that the bird is the word. no expression

EvilAngel
Originally posted by NemeBro
Fair enough.

You mean you haven't heard? But...Everybody's heard, that the bird is the word. no expression


.....Are you gonig to tell me what you're talking about or should i start ignoring you already? =)

NemeBro
zrnL4yYSme4

Magee
The Raikage is fast enough to blitz all five bodies from the start which he might do if he has prior knowledge of Pain. Only the main body will be a problem for him but if he is smart he will figure out it's 5 second cool time and one hit K.O him.

Raikage is to fast and when you have that much speed it's hard to gauge a fight because speed > all.

King Kandy
Originally posted by Magee
The Raikage is fast enough to blitz all five bodies from the start which he might do if he has prior knowledge of Pain. Only the main body will be a problem for him but if he is smart he will figure out it's 5 second cool time and one hit K.O him.

Raikage is to fast and when you have that much speed it's hard to gauge a fight because speed > all.
Pain uses Chibaku Tensei. Raikage dies.

Magee
Originally posted by King Kandy
Pain uses Chibaku Tensei. Raikage dies. Chibaku Tensei is a last resort for him, he won't last long enough to use it if you want to go down the road of who wins fastest. You could also argue Raikage would be able to escape its area of effect using shunshin.

King Kandy
Originally posted by Magee
Chibaku Tensei is a last resort for him, he won't last long enough to use it if you want to go down the road of who wins fastest. You could also argue Raikage would be able to escape its area of effect using shunshin.
It was a last resort against Naruto. He could use it at the start of the match, if he wished.

I could argue that he could evade with Shunshin, but that would be idiotic in my opinion. It would draw him back as he tried to get away, and not even six-tails could escape it's pull.

He could also remove his soul with Gedo Mazo, for a true last resort.

EvilAngel
Sorry but if Deva path own Kakashi like that then i really don't think the Raikage would beat all six. Didn't it only take like 3 to take Jiraiya down?

NemeBro
The Raikage is much stronger than Kakashi. Just to clarify.

Although Pain believes Jiraiya would have won had Raikage known his secret before-hand.

King Kandy
Originally posted by NemeBro
The Raikage is much stronger than Kakashi. Just to clarify.

Although Pain believes Jiraiya would have won had Raikage known his secret before-hand.
That has always bugged me. How exactly would Jiraiya have won, anyway? Nagato saw first hand that Naruto both knew his secret and was much more powerful than Jiraiya, but he still felt he could beat him.

NemeBro
Originally posted by King Kandy
That has always bugged me. How exactly would Jiraiya have won, anyway? Nagato saw first hand that Naruto both knew his secret and was much more powerful than Jiraiya, but he still felt he could beat him. Much moar experience maybe? More techniques? PIS?

King Kandy
Originally posted by NemeBro
Much moar experience maybe? More techniques? PIS?
I'm inclined to believe that statement was just PIS and should be used... given that it is confirmed Pein can use the powers of his bodies, and can control Jiraiya, I think that was probably intended merely as a "look how important it is to find out the secret" from kishi.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Magee
The Raikage is fast enough to blitz all five bodies from the start which he might do if he has prior knowledge of Pain. Only the main body will be a problem for him but if he is smart he will figure out it's 5 second cool time and one hit K.O him.

Raikage is to fast and when you have that much speed it's hard to gauge a fight because speed > all. gotta agree here.

the five second interval might as well be a minute for the raikage, and all he has to do is elbow each path one time to down them. gluttony pain can absorb his chackra but it takes time, and raikage's elbow is not chackra so if that lands......... he's getting sasuke'd even worse than sasuke in susano'o got sasuke'd and even with that plot shield sasuke got sasuke'd pretty bad still. cool

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4820/1617vg.jpg

dayum son! check out your man's neck.

all those bone chips used to be susano'o ribs, the pain paths don't have the durability or offense OR speed to hang with raikage.

pein ain't looking too good to me. kind of a bad match-up.

Kento
Except Raikage will be dealing more with a Pain that fought Jiraiya and less like the Pain that fought Naruto. Not weakened, able to summon things instantly, including one that will be hiding him. Then there is the fact all the Pain's will be in one area so he's not going to be able to surprise attack them. He has no way to compete with Shinra Tensei. Even if (which it very well might) his raiton shroud blocks the bone crushing damage from it, he'll be flying back which is plenty of time for the five seconds thing to be a non-factor. Absorbing Pein will be useless for just the absorbing as Raikage doesn't really do ninjutsu besides his raiton shroud, but being constantly pushed or pulled into a attack he has 'dodged' and being bombarded with summons when he can't see who is summoning and being caught of guard there really is no chance to win.

psycho gundam
idunno bro, raikage wastes no time phukking dudes up who stand in front of him all stoic n' shit like pein and the sauce do.

say he hits deva path right in the grill from jump at full speed, what happens then?

and the kicker: besides shinra tensei, chibaku, and their super combo versions, what can actually damage raikage in raiton shroud?

if raikage takes deva down from the beginning, that takes out more than 95% of his worries. sure hell realm can revive him, but he can only do it once before raikage one pieces him, and hell....raikage might see deva path getting out of the head thing and realize whats up.

raiger double choke slam?

King Kandy
God Pain is always the last to fight. Raikage will have to get through the other ones first. The summoner Pain alone can keep Raikage busy.

Kento
Originally posted by psycho gundam
idunno bro, raikage wastes no time phukking dudes up who stand in front of him all stoic n' shit like pein and the sauce do.

say he hits deva path right in the grill from jump at full speed, what happens then?

and the kicker: besides shinra tensei, chibaku, and their super combo versions, what can actually damage raikage in raiton shroud?

if raikage takes deva down from the beginning, that takes out more than 95% of his worries. sure hell realm can revive him, but he can only do it once before raikage one pieces him, and hell....raikage might see deva path getting out of the head thing and realize whats up.

raiger double choke slam? It takes Raikage more time to go super saiyan than it would take for Summoner to disappear in with the Chameleon summon. Besides there is nothing else that needs to hurt Raikage. The rest would still knock him around and keep him off guard, and keep him from getting his footing. Summons knocking him around, being blasted by rockets, beind pushed, and pulled before he can hit somebody. It would be a uphill battle for Raikage.

psycho gundam
they're too slow to touch him though. erm

and the invisible chameleon summon wasn't out at first, it was like third, raikage could batter the animal path pein way before it comes out...or just behead her like his arm.

and again, the summons can't touch him. replace anything attacking raikage for 2-stage juugo (summon, fodder path). all he needs is a second to knock your ass into a cliff face and move on to bigger fish.

Kento
Originally posted by psycho gundam
they're too slow to touch him though. erm

and the invisible chameleon summon wasn't out at first, it was like third, raikage could batter the animal path pein way before it comes out...or just behead her like his arm.

and again, the summons can't touch him. replace anything attacking raikage for 2-stage juugo (summon, fodder path). all he needs is a second to knock your ass into a cliff face and move on to bigger fish. That's where the pulling, and pushing part of Yahiko comes in. Even if he does dodge he can still be pulled into the attack. And before he gains his bearings the five second thing is already over. Hurt or not he'll be knocked around and/or far away.

It was the first thing to summon. And unlike Jiraiya, Raikage doesn't have the ability to make a barrier that senses people or ma and pa toad. Though female Animal Realm seemed weaker than the male Animal Realm.

Raikage will be fighting Six Paths at once, along with the Summons. He'll be pushed, and pulled off balance every time he dodges, or even just finally catches himself after being knocked around. He'll never have the chance to attack. Yahiko hits him with a powerful, bone crushing Shinra Tensei, Absorbing Pein grabs him, starts absorbing his raiton shroud, and chakra without the effects of Sage Mode chakra, and while he is breaking/trying to break out of Absorbing's graps he gets his soul sucked out. It takes less time for Shinra Tensei to lay him out than it does for him to power up, and use raiton shroud also.

psycho gundam
i doubt it, amatarasu couldn't touch him nor juugo's point blank mega laser barrage. if he doesn't want to be toughed, he won't be.

and chibaku tensei (or whatever the almighty pull is called) might work against pein since raikage is a taijutu god. invisible of not, he'll be pulled right to him.

but seriously, he might just be too fast for anything to touch him at all. if he is indeed faster than kirabi even without the raiton shroud...he'll be hundreds of meters away in an instant the moment pein says his jutsu with his arm stretched out. then he'll be back in the same time in his "blind spot" before any of them can react.

Kento
Originally posted by psycho gundam
i doubt it, amatarasu couldn't touch him nor juugo's point blank mega laser barrage. if he doesn't want to be toughed, he won't be.

and chibaku tensei (or whatever the almighty pull is called) might work against pein since raikage is a taijutu god. invisible of not, he'll be pulled right to him.

but seriously, he might just be too fast for anything to touch him at all. if he is indeed faster than kirabi even without the raiton shroud...he'll be hundreds of meters away in an instant the moment pein says his jutsu with his arm stretched out. then he'll be back in the same time in his "blind spot" before any of them can react. How would he ever dodge an omni-directional, invisible attack?

It wouldn't get to God Realm. It would be used to pull him into a dodged attack.

There isn't anything to suggest he is to fast to be touched at all. He'd never have to time to amp up to the speed he used to dodge Amaterasu, and then attack God Realm before God Realm unleashes an attack that could break every bone in his body. His only hope would to be using Raiton Shroud first, but it would still still be to last because he's be hit by the attack as he does without being able to amp his speed fast enough to hope to blitz Pein. And that first inital Shinra Tensei from Pein is all that is needed to start a chain of constant attacks from every direction keeping Raikage from amping. Even assuming he could get his bearings after and start to dodge the attacks and beat all the summons, and other bodies it would be enough distraction for Pein to end the fight with Chibaku Tensei.

psycho gundam
all raikage needs to know is he's fighting the leader of akatsuki, he'll definitely boost to max output on that chackra armour.

but really, how long does it take to increase it? it seems to be regulated by his anger or frustration, and the base version is good enough to slice straight through his forearm like butter.

you have a point though, the push/pull is invisible and whatnot, but it still can't hurt him. also, it won't take long for him to figure out how long he goes inbetween uses, once it pushes him back once, it's elbow blitz time.

dadudemon
I'm with Kento.




And Pain saying Jiraiya could beat him if Jiraiya knew his secret isn't PIS.


If Jiraiya knew about the rods and the original body controlling them, there's no reason to assume he wouldn't do exactly what Naruto did. Jiraiya may not have had as strong of a sage mode as Naruto, but, IMO, he'd still beat Naruto in a 1 on 1 fight simply because of his experience, intelligence, and technique pool.

The first thing Jiraiya would do is get a hold of one of those rods/thingies and go right to pain and do the toad stomach or ultimate rasengan. I don't think any of the pains are faster than Jiraiya. In fact, I think Jiraiya would be faster than any of the Pain's.



And, Naruto is really fast himself, while in sage mode. He went from one location to another, at the very beginning of the fight, in an instant...attacking. To me, that is one of the fastest non-space/time techniques seen in the manga.


But, yeah, I see Raikage as being strong, but I don't have a way to compare him. His strength feat against a very much incomplete susanoo means almost nothing. We have no idea how strong that body is. It could simply be as strong as any other bones of that size. The best strength feat we have so far is Tsunade with Gamabunta's sword. So, by feats, she's still the strongest.


Naruto also has his own strength feat that approaches that scale: he took those two massive animals an launched them like they were styrofoam with a double mega-rasengan. Sweatest combo move in the series, thus far, imo. I was like, "WTF BOOOYYYEEEE!"

NemeBro
The best strength feat in Naruto was Naruto tossing that rhino.

By far.

dadudemon
Originally posted by NemeBro
The best strength feat in Naruto was Naruto tossing that rhino.

By far.

Really?

I'll have to look that up, again.


You could be right. (And I'll admit I was wrong.)

NemeBro
The rhino was gigantic, it's horn alone was obviously larger and taller than Pain, it was at least as large as a blue whale to my recollection.

King Kandy
Originally posted by dadudemon
If Jiraiya knew about the rods and the original body controlling them, there's no reason to assume he wouldn't do exactly what Naruto did.
Give Nagato a "please stop being evil" talk?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Jiraiya may not have had as strong of a sage mode as Naruto, but, IMO, he'd still beat Naruto in a 1 on 1 fight simply because of his experience, intelligence, and technique pool.
Naruto beat all the pain bodies who utterly crushed Jiraiya. Anyway Naruto could do the same ****ing shit he did against Pein, lose, get WTFrevived MULTIPLE TIMES and pull powers out of his ass like no tomorrow (seriously what was up w/ that sage-kyuubi bullshit).

Originally posted by dadudemon
The first thing Jiraiya would do is get a hold of one of those rods/thingies and go right to pain and do the toad stomach or ultimate rasengan. I don't think any of the pains are faster than Jiraiya. In fact, I think Jiraiya would be faster than any of the Pain's.
And you're quite wrong to think so. The Pein bodies easily reacted and blocked Jiraiya's fastest attacks, so somehow you think they can't react to slower ones?

If he met face to face w/ nagato, he would instantly lose because Nagato could control his chakra and unlike Naruto he has no spontaneously manifested abilities to resist that.

dadudemon
Originally posted by NemeBro
The rhino was gigantic, it's horn alone was obviously larger and taller than Pain, it was at least as large as a blue whale to my recollection.

I can't find a reference to the chapter. Do you know off the top of your head?

I'll just look it up, slowly, if i have to.

NemeBro
Sorry, I don't, it was near the beginning of Naruto's fight with Pain though.

dadudemon
Originally posted by NemeBro
Sorry, I don't, it was near the beginning of Naruto's fight with Pain though.

lol

Found it in like, 20 second.


http://img12.tx.us.mangafox.com/store/manga/8/46-431.0/compressed/04.jpg

That thing's HUGE!

Here is he tossing it like....a mile in a split second:

http://img09.tx.us.mangafox.com/store/manga/8/46-431.0/compressed/06.jpg

dadudemon
And here's Tsunade swinging the sword:


http://img12.tx.us.mangafox.com/store/manga/8/19-170.0/compressed/Naruto_c170_p17.jpg

http://img09.tx.us.mangafox.com/store/manga/8/19-170.0/compressed/Naruto_c170_p18.jpg






I dunno if Naruto's feat was better. I'm leaning towards a no since the sword is bigger, and denser. (Steel is 8 times as dense as the human body...which the Rhino would be around the same density.)

What this means is a sword that is much more massive than the Rhino. The only way to compare the two is use the equation for force to move a lever in a circle (centripital force) and figure out how fast each was swung. Naruto's was probably much faster...but...depending on how much would make the difference.

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by dadudemon
lol

Found it in like, 20 second.


http://img12.tx.us.mangafox.com/store/manga/8/46-431.0/compressed/04.jpg

That thing's HUGE!

Here is he tossing it like....a mile in a split second:

http://img09.tx.us.mangafox.com/store/manga/8/46-431.0/compressed/06.jpg

He also stops the rhino dead in its tracks; by grabbing the horn no less. That's a pretty good feat.

Naija boy
While i dont think the raikage wins this, there shouldnt be any question as to him being the fastest living character speedwise.

Magee
Originally posted by Kento
There isn't anything to suggest he is to fast to be touched at all. He'd never have to time to amp up to the speed he used to dodge Amaterasu, and then attack God Realm before God Realm unleashes an attack that could break every bone in his body. Should we not assume both opponents fight to the best of there ability and not holding back? Raikage is a speed demon and has lightning fast reflexes, Pain won't know what hit him if Raikage goes in to a blitz. Yes Pain has a lot of nice Jutsu but when you can't see your opponent much less react in time to counter his attacks he is basically reduced to his shinra tensei. It took Raikage one panel to amp his Lightning shroud, it's not a gradual thing.

Shinra Tensei would unlikely break any bones since Pain survived the one turned back on him, one which was intended to repel 6 tail Naruto.

Originally posted by Kento
His only hope would to be using Raiton Shroud first, but it would still still be to last because he's be hit by the attack as he does without being able to amp his speed fast enough to hope to blitz Pein. And that first inital Shinra Tensei from Pein is all that is needed to start a chain of constant attacks from every direction keeping Raikage from amping. Even assuming he could get his bearings after and start to dodge the attacks and beat all the summons, and other bodies it would be enough distraction for Pein to end the fight with Chibaku Tensei. Again where is it shown his shroud takes long to activate / amp? He activated it in one page when first meeting Sasuke then amped in one panel later in the battle. Also a fair vs fight would have them starting some distance apart giving Raikage more than enough time to get his shroud going.

About Pains Chibaku Tensei. You know it's basically just a gravitational force like a black hole although much weaker? You could argue Raikage's shunshin would be able to get away from it's effects. Although either side of that argument is just speculation since we don't know it's gravitational force or shunshin's exact speed.

I would agree with you if Raikage only had his insane movement speed but he has the lightning fast reactions to go with it which makes him the first and best candidate in Naruto to pull off a true speedblitz.

yungz22
Personally I think Pein is overrated. God realms intervals are a really easy to exploit all you have to do is dodge the first one then its all over for god realm. The rest of the bodies are all fodder.

NemeBro
When I first read your post I thought you said penis was overrated. So you know.

EvilAngel
Originally posted by yungz22
Personally I think Pein is overrated. God realms intervals are a really easy to exploit all you have to do is dodge the first one then its all over for god realm. The rest of the bodies are all fodder.

Well you say that, and fair enough it seems that way. But i mean look at the rookie 9 for example, most of them only have one move, maybe a few variations. Once you get past that their easy.


Pain is so strong because he has 6 bodies that share the same eyes, ears etc. One of the major points up until now is that teamwork is the way to succeed.

This guy has completed hacked teamwork. He is his own team, able share thoughts and plans with each other, a mastermind behind it all. Also each of the bodies can do something different, allowing a varied contribution.


I think you get the picture. Pain derserves all the 'rating' he has. Probably and thensome. To be honest i think how easily Naruto won compared to Jiraiya was PIS. But that's just me

dadudemon
Originally posted by EvilAngel
To be honest i think how easily Naruto won compared to Jiraiya was PIS. But that's just me

Fair enough.


Let me explain an alternate perspective as to Naruto's success being legitimate.



1. Naruto had mastered Safe Mode where Jiraiya had not. Naruto's sage mode was stronger in every-way.

2. I may be wrong about this, but I think Naruto learned the Toad Sage taijutsu whereas, Jiraiya had not.

3. Naruto knew more about Pain and his bodies than Jiraiya did.

4. Naruto had an attack, the Rasenshuriken, that could cut through several mountains before it was even complete. That killed a couple of the bodies.

5. Kakashi and...I forget who (Tsunade?) both looked at Naruto and saw the Strength and battle prowess of both Jiraiya and Yondaime. Naruto is a very intelligent combatant. His stamina is second to who...Raikage and maybe Hachibi?

6. One of the Pain bodies, Yohiko, was worn out and couldn't fight for a tad bit.





All of those come together to make Naruto a better fighter H2H, and be more aware of his environment. Like someone else said, it's possible that Naruto has the greatest strength feat in all of Naruto...he's at least in the area of Tsunade, if not stronger. He has one of the greatest speed feats, as well. We have Sasuke and Raikage doing "insta" movements, too. Naruto's speed comes from his safe mode and toad art taijutsu.




IMO, Jiraiya was horribly disadvantaged because he was stuck in an enclosed environment. IMO, neither fight was PIS.

King Kandy
Naruto's fight was PIS, but him winning was legit... indeed, with all the times he kept getting Resurrections at full power while Pain kept tiring himself with costly jutsu, it would have been silly not to win... the PIS is that he had so many plot-device resurrections in the first place.

EvilAngel
Originally posted by dadudemon
Fair enough.


Let me explain an alternate perspective as to Naruto's success being legitimate.



1. Naruto had mastered Safe Mode where Jiraiya had not. Naruto's sage mode was stronger in every-way.

2. I may be wrong about this, but I think Naruto learned the Toad Sage taijutsu whereas, Jiraiya had not.

3. Naruto knew more about Pain and his bodies than Jiraiya did.

4. Naruto had an attack, the Rasenshuriken, that could cut through several mountains before it was even complete. That killed a couple of the bodies.

5. Kakashi and...I forget who (Tsunade?) both looked at Naruto and saw the Strength and battle prowess of both Jiraiya and Yondaime. Naruto is a very intelligent combatant. His stamina is second to who...Raikage and maybe Hachibi?

6. One of the Pain bodies, Yohiko, was worn out and couldn't fight for a tad bit.





All of those come together to make Naruto a better fighter H2H, and be more aware of his environment. Like someone else said, it's possible that Naruto has the greatest strength feat in all of Naruto...he's at least in the area of Tsunade, if not stronger. He has one of the greatest speed feats, as well. We have Sasuke and Raikage doing "insta" movements, too. Naruto's speed comes from his safe mode and toad art taijutsu.




IMO, Jiraiya was horribly disadvantaged because he was stuck in an enclosed environment. IMO, neither fight was PIS.


Well it's more to do with the fact he mastered sage mode in.... how long? versus Jiraiya who had been learning it for.... how long?


But yeah, consider Jiraiya's experience etc and he still got creamed versus Naruto's natural ability and he kicks his ass? erm

Ms.Marvel
he did learn a technique in one week that took the fourth his life to learn.

EvilAngel
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
he did learn a technique in one week that took the fourth his life to learn.

With a thousand clones.

Even considering it's 3 per technique thats 333 weeks, aka 6 and a half years, of pretty much pure training on that one technique. The Fourth died young, i doubt he spent that much time on it to be honest.

The sage training he could only use his real body to learn.

Ms.Marvel
true! yes

NemeBro
For the record, most of Pain's bodies are fodder IMO...Especially Hell Path. erm

dadudemon
Originally posted by EvilAngel
Well it's more to do with the fact he mastered sage mode in.... how long? versus Jiraiya who had been learning it for.... how long?

Jiraiya was also said to be hasty and that he didn't work hard enough.

Also, we have continuous feats from Naruto that show he just simply gets it much faster than everyone else. It took him what...a week or 2 to master the rasengan when it took Jiraiya a year? That right there should tell you the difference between Naruto and Jiraiya.

His Sage Mode mastery is just another iteration of Naruto's superiority over the previous generation, which is a recurring theme in Naruto.


Originally posted by EvilAngel
But yeah, consider Jiraiya's experience etc and he still got creamed versus Naruto's natural ability and he kicks his ass? erm

Jiraiya's experience also got him a nod from Nagato. Nagato said that if Jiraiya knew his secret, he'd most likely lose. Naruto knew that secret. Naruto DID almost lose. I still think Jiraiya would be Naruto in a fight, if he were still alive...even IF Naruto has better mastery over Sage Mode.



And, lol, did you notice my Freudian slip? In my last post, I put "safe mode." (Cause I work in IT.)

dadudemon
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
he did learn a technique in one week that took the fourth his life to learn.

It took the forth a year to learn. It also took Jiraiya a year, if I remember properly. Also, Yondaime invented it.

NemeBro
Originally posted by dadudemon
His Sage Mode mastery is just another iteration of Naruto's superiority over the previous generation, which is a recurring theme in Naruto. That is very true.

It is still retarded. no expression

psycho gundam
Originally posted by EvilAngel
With a thousand clones.

Even considering it's 3 per technique thats 333 weeks, aka 6 and a half years, of pretty much pure training on that one technique. The Fourth died young, i doubt he spent that much time on it to be honest.

The sage training he could only use his real body to learn. i used to tell people that when they bring up the resengan thing.

minato also had to you know....get powerful enough to fight madara w/ kyuubi closing the 3rd ninja war. i doubt the regular resengan is enough to take down tobi/madara or the full kyuubi, he probably just scraped it to do more important training.

King Kandy
Originally posted by NemeBro
For the record, most of Pain's bodies are fodder IMO...Especially Hell Path. erm
That's because hell path supports the other bodies... he has no actual combat abilities of his own. You notice the other pain bodies expended a lot of effort protecting him early in the fight.

big juggy man
Most powerful Leaf ninja - You're forgetting Danzo and his possesion of the insta-rape technique: Sharingan.

~ In a physical fight, no one is beating Raikage, perhaps not even his bro'.

Deva Path never was one for physical brawls though.


So just because you have the Sharingan you can't lose? Well Itachi admitted he couldnt be Jiraiya so apparently Sharingan users can be beat.

Anyway with Pis off alot of things should of happened in Naruto. Haku should of killed Sasuke, Zabuza should of killed Kakashi in their first fight. Tsunade should of killed Kabuto.

But you know some characters will always win. Naruto will beat no matter who he fights and so will Sasuke but that is how japanese comics and tv shows work.

With Pains abilities he should be able to win but it would be a good fight..

yungz22
The thing is all everyone is focused on is peins village destroying jutsu. Pein isnt going to use a life threatening technique like that unless he has to so here is how to fight will play through.


Raikage fights the fodder peins. While fighting he realizes hell pein is reviving the bodies then he takes him out. Once that hapens the rest of the peins are going to be taken out one by one leaving God realm. God realm hits raikage with a moderate shinra tensei. After being hit he realizes the time intervals makes God realm miss then Raikage blitzs Pein for the win. Flawless victory.

King Kandy
Originally posted by yungz22
The thing is all everyone is focused on is peins village destroying jutsu. Pein isnt going to use a life threatening technique like that unless he has to so here is how to fight will play through.


Raikage fights the fodder peins. While fighting he realizes hell pein is reviving the bodies then he takes him out. Once that hapens the rest of the peins are going to be taken out one by one leaving God realm. God realm hits raikage with a moderate shinra tensei. After being hit he realizes the time intervals makes God realm miss then Raikage blitzs Pein for the win. Flawless victory.
He only uses the village buster when he needs it? The one time he DID use it, was certainly not a time he needed it.

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by big juggy man

So just because you have the Sharingan you can't lose? Well Itachi admitted he couldnt be Jiraiya so apparently Sharingan users can be beat.


no expression...I was joking about the insta-rape thing.

yungz22
Originally posted by King Kandy
He only uses the village buster when he needs it? The one time he DID use it, was certainly not a time he needed it.

He wuz provoked to use it because Tsunade gave him da will of Fire spew which wuz PIS for naruto vs him
The scenario is based on zero PIS

King Kandy
Originally posted by yungz22
He wuz provoked to use it because Tsunade gave him da will of Fire spew which wuz PIS for naruto vs him
The scenario is based on zero PIS
Giving a corny speech, is not what I call "needing to use it".

EvilAngel
Originally posted by dadudemon
Jiraiya was also said to be hasty and that he didn't work hard enough.

Also, we have continuous feats from Naruto that show he just simply gets it much faster than everyone else. It took him what...a week or 2 to master the rasengan when it took Jiraiya a year? That right there should tell you the difference between Naruto and Jiraiya.

His Sage Mode mastery is just another iteration of Naruto's superiority over the previous generation, which is a recurring theme in Naruto.




Jiraiya's experience also got him a nod from Nagato. Nagato said that if Jiraiya knew his secret, he'd most likely lose. Naruto knew that secret. Naruto DID almost lose. I still think Jiraiya would be Naruto in a fight, if he were still alive...even IF Naruto has better mastery over Sage Mode.



And, lol, did you notice my Freudian slip? In my last post, I put "safe mode." (Cause I work in IT.)


I know you're right, but with all the ridiculously stupid things Naruto does, his innate ability to learn new things at light speed seems retarded.


My major problem with Naruto is very very simple.

Let's face it, the 2 and a half years, or however long he was with Jiraiya, he learnt Jack-sh*t. Oh, wait he learnt a BIG rasengan. Giant leap there erm

a few weeks back and he's learn the most powerful Jutsu in the series, if not the ninja world. And has mastered sage mode, which may as well be renamed god mode.

yungz22
Originally posted by King Kandy
Giving a corny speech, is not what I call "needing to use it". alright fine he used it of his own free will but even then God realm isnt going to use a technique like that on one person unless he had to because of the recharge time and the fact it is life threatening.

dadudemon
Originally posted by EvilAngel
I know you're right, but with all the ridiculously stupid things Naruto does, his innate ability to learn new things at light speed seems retarded.


My major problem with Naruto is very very simple.

Let's face it, the 2 and a half years, or however long he was with Jiraiya, he learnt Jack-sh*t. Oh, wait he learnt a BIG rasengan. Giant leap there erm

a few weeks back and he's learn the most powerful Jutsu in the series, if not the ninja world. And has mastered sage mode, which may as well be renamed god mode.


Naruto learned more about battle tactics and smarts than he did anything else....during those two years. Jiraiya also worked hard to figure out Naruto's beast mode. It took quite a bit of time and pain to finally get that Naruto could only get to 3 tails before losing it.

EvilAngel
Sorry no sale stick out tongue

Two and a half years, and he learnt nothing. He was already pretty good tactically imo (Chuunin examns anyone?)

He comes back and learns the two hardest things to learn in the series to date in a few weeks..... *sighs*

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