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Spiderman fights Jet Li's characters from "The One."

Two scenarios....

1: Spiderman versus YuLaw alone. Fight takes place in the subway where Neo fought Agent Smith in "The Matrix."

2: Spiderman versus YuLaw AND Gabe Law. Fight takes place in the dojo where Neo fought Morpheus.

No matrix bullshit, of course.


Gabe and YuLaw are at full strength, as they were at the end of "The One."

Spiderman is....well....As he is at the end of Spiderman 1. We can include Spiderman 2 and 3 later if you guys wish.



TO THE DEATH!!!

Gabe wins by himself.

Yulaw wins, by himself.

Both win easily.


Bullet time is the same or even slower for Yulaw. Yulaw and Gabe are stronger than Neo.

You think it's that easy for them?

Spidey loses

I dont think it's that easy. He can use his webbing and shit, and he is damn fast himself, and do I even need to bring up his spidey sense and superhuman strength? Dude held a cable car in the air like it was nothing.

What the hell, Spider-man at least takes scenario 1.

He is just as fast if not faster, although I don't remember exactly how fast Gabe was.

Secondly, Spider-man is way stronger. I mean Gabe had that lifting two motorcycles feat, which is pretty good, but Spidey can replicate that for sure and then some.

I think if the Laws get up close and personal, they'll bust Spidey up, better if he keeps his distance and uses his webbing and wall crawling.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I dont think it's that easy. He can use his webbing and shit, and he is damn fast himself, and do I even need to bring up his spidey sense and superhuman strength? Dude held a cable car in the air like it was nothing.

They are stronger than Spiderman and much much faster. Spiderman has them in agility, by a long shot, but he's not fast enough to evade them.

On top of that, Goblin ripped the spiderwebbing like it was nothing. They are just as strong if not stronger.

Remember Yulaw picking up those motorcycles and swinging them around like they were styrofoam noodles? That puts his strength on level, at a minimum, with a 10 ton lifter, with ease.

Styro FOAM.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Styro FOAM.

Thanks. I Have no idea how I got "phone" out of that.

Could Gabe or YuLaw have stopped the train, or held up the cable car like Spidey did?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Could Gabe or YuLaw have stopped the train, or held up the cable car like Spidey did?

Of course not. How does lifting two motorcycles automatically put you on par with those feats? Heck, Gobbly held that cable car up with one arm like nothing while giving a speech.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Gabe wins by himself.

Yulaw wins, by himself.

Both win easily.


Bullet time is the same or even slower for Yulaw. Yulaw and Gabe are stronger than Neo.


Neo was stronger. In the last movie, Neo and Smith were punching each other through buildings. A single punch by either of them was enough to cause a sonic boom devastating enough to blow out all the windows of the surrounding skyscrapers. In essence, Neo and Smith were displaying Superman level feats in that last movie.

Yulaw nor Gabe would have a chance against Neo or Smith..lol


As far as the fight goes, their speed is probably comparable. Spiderman would have an edge on strength. Stopping a runaway train is greater than picking up two motorcycles. As fast as Yulaw is, he couldn't avoid Spidey's webbing. The black agent from the future(can't think of his name) landed several hits on Yulaw, so I know Spidey could tag and web him.

Originally posted by Placidity
Of course not. How does lifting two motorcycles automatically put you on par with those feats? Heck, Gobbly held that cable car up with one arm like nothing while giving a speech. DDM offered me a good explaination why YuLaw's motorcycle feat is greater, forgot what he said, I'll ask again.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Neo was stronger. In the last movie, Neo and Smith were punching each other through buildings. A single punch by either of them was enough to cause a sonic boom devastating enough to blow out all the windows of the surrounding skyscrapers. In essence, Neo and Smith were displaying Superman level feats in that last movie.

Yulaw nor Gabe would have a chance against Neo or Smith..lol


As far as the fight goes, their speed is probably comparable. Spiderman would have an edge on strength. Stopping a runaway train is greater than picking up two motorcycles. As fast as Yulaw is, he couldn't avoid Spidey's webbing. The black agent from the future(can't think of his name) landed several hits on Yulaw, so I know Spidey could tag and web him.


The strength feats were coming from Smith, primarily, not Neo. Smith was puttin Neo through windows and window frames, and through the ground, and causing concussive fronts.


I think Gabe and Yulaw could quite handily avoid the webbing, and, on top of that, the webbing is easily torn through, as seen by Goblin in the first film.

And stopping the train is not a greater strength feat. Not even close. It's stopping a train with a similar force, over time, and not outright lifting 500 tons times the force of a train moving at 50 mph.

I did the math a while back and what I got was about 10 tons of force applied a second in order to stop a train in ....what was it?... 60 seconds? 90 seconds? (Yes, the numbers really did work out that nicely.)

I forgot the actual numbers...but it came to about 10 tons a second.

Every second of force removes that from the inertia of the train. So, a ten ton force being applied to an object that has an inertia of 3000 tons takes 300 seconds to reduce the speed of it. That's 5 minutes.

I had a table of fores. I don't remember the numbers. But if I remember properly, the inertia of an object doubles at 50 mph. I searched the internet for that. That means it would take 100 seconds to stop a 500 ton train. If anything, that strength feat makes spiderman weaker...as I think the scene was actually closer to 1 minute and 30 second. If you want to verify, you can.

Oh, and the passenger train numbers I'm getting from an actual website. It said a passenger train weights 250. I doubled the weight for good measure. However, that's almost baseless of me to do. How many passengers does a passenger train carry? 200? that's only 18 additional tons.


Now that I think about it, I think I set the weight to 500 due to 25 actually being the double the weight zone. So, it would be (250 * (50/25))/10 = 50 seconds to stop the train.

Edit - And, the fast an object moves, the steeper the "mass" increase. However, that phenomenon doesn't show up in significant numbers until you get into relativistic speeds.....but, I could still be off. I don't remember the "mass table" that showed the rate of mass increase as the speed of an object increased. I can't find it either. If someone wants to pwn me, you can look that up and pwn me. If I'm pwned, you'll be my hero.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Could Gabe or YuLaw have stopped the train, or held up the cable car like Spidey did?

Of course not, they have no way of getting a grip on those buildings on the left and right. They would need webbing.

See? haermm

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
See? haermm
That's not all of it, though. lol



Now, I have to justify why Yulaw's motorcycles feat is greater than 10 tons of force.



We assume that a gallon of gas weighs 6.15 pounds.

How many gallons does that motorcycle hold?

I dunno. I don't even know the model. I don't even remember what they looked like. I need someone to tell me what the model is and I can do the math.



However, just by guesstimating, I can assure you that the force required to accelerate those bikes as fast as he did, through the air, right out in front of himself, is much greater than the force required to stop that train. We are talking in the 3+ times category.


Just so you guys know where I'm coming from with this: The speed at which an object is moved through space is dependent upon the amount of force applied to it. Pretend the force acts on a light object. Then, pretend that same force is applied to a heavier object. The speed that the heavier object moves is slower, if the distance to be moved is the same for each.

So, if we translate Yulaws force to the motorcycles, we can actually get a force measurement out of him. It should be MUCH greater for those heavier police bikes, as he smacked them together quite easily. I am guessing those police bikes weighed 600-800 lbs. He held the bikes out in front of himself and smacked them together like they were Styrofoam. 600+ pound bikes. It is harder to do that than pick them up in the Marvel universe's way of measurement, which is lifting the weigh over the head.


Trust me. Try to pick up two dumbbell weights, 25 lbs each, and lift them straight out in front of you. Now, try to smack them together.

NOW, try to pick those weights up and put them over your head with your arms completely extended.

Which is harder?


By far, it's the picking up up and extending them in front of you.

Now, if you guys want to scale it, find a weight that you can move as easily as Yulaw did. Smack them together. Once you find that weight, find a weight that is your peak. Meaning, find the most weight you can do and extend them straight out and bring your arms together while it is straight out.

Divide your peak weight with the first result and you'll get your multiplication factor. That's how much you would multiply Yulaw's motorcycle weight by to get a lifting power.



So, for instance, I am quite sure the weight required to be light enough will be something close to one pound in each hand, or less. I am sure the peak weight will be something like 25 pounds to 40 pounds. (I could probably do 40 lbs, at most...based on what I do at the gym.) that's 25-40 times more strength.

We have two bikes. So..

(600*2) * 25 = 30000

That's 15 tons.


And here's the high end.

800*2 * 40 = 64000

That's 32 tons.



Of course, that's just a quick example of how to anecdotally figure this out. There is a physics way of doing it and that is to use gravity as the force to overcome. So, you would have an exact limit in weight that would be a maximum. Meaning, that same force applied to a large enough weight would not be overcome, due to the force of gravity acting on that mass. So there is a ceiling of maximum weight he could pick up.


I am not sure of a real world physics number for a theoretical limit on weight he could pick up and slam together other than an unscientific poll from KMC users here. I could have 5 of us do it. Find the heaviest weight we could move as fast as Yulaw did, and then find the heaviest weight possible. Divide the latter by the former and then post it here. Then we could average our numbers and come up with a multiplication factor for Yulaw. Then, multiply the weight of the bikes, as soon as we find that out, by 2 and then by the factor mentioned in the last sentence, and, boom, we have Yulaw's maximum weight for picking up an irregular object and bringing them together, straight out in front of him.



Edit - Wait (lol, no pun intended), I could be totally wrong. I just remembered how fast Yulaw slammed those bikes together. I think that is superhuman. He moved the bikes faster than I peak human can move their arms in the same position he did. So, my numbers would be waaaaay off. It is much higher than what we would calculate, due to how fast he moved his arms. Maybe not. I dunno. I'll have to watch it again. If we just find the weight, then that's fine. It's still off because the bikes were being held out in front of him with the weight on the bikes not all being in his hands, but extending out from himself. Think centripital motion and applying force on a lever on an irregular object with irregular densities. So, in order to make this accurate, we'd have to move objects that are the same shape with the same proportional density to the bike. So, to make it make more sense, it would be harder to move, as fast, a bike that has proportional density and proportional weight to the real bikes Yulaw moved, than if we made the measurement against just dumbbells, as almost all the weight is in the hand.

You forgot sumthin.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You forgot sumthin.

I covered it. I realized it after I posted it.

No, man.......Bewbz.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's not all of it, though. lol



Now, I have to justify why Yulaw's motorcycles feat is greater than 10 tons of force.



We assume that a gallon of gas weighs 6.15 pounds.

How many gallons does that motorcycle hold?

I dunno. I don't even know the model. I don't even remember what they looked like. I need someone to tell me what the model is and I can do the math.



However, just by guesstimating, I can assure you that the force required to accelerate those bikes as fast as he did, through the air, right out in front of himself, is much greater than the force required to stop that train. We are talking in the 3+ times category.


Just so you guys know where I'm coming from with this: The speed at which an object is moved through space is dependent upon the amount of force applied to it. Pretend the force acts on a light object. Then, pretend that same force is applied to a heavier object. The speed that the heavier object moves is slower, if the distance to be moved is the same for each.

So, if we translate Yulaws force to the motorcycles, we can actually get a force measurement out of him. It should be MUCH greater for those heavier police bikes, as he smacked them together quite easily. I am guessing those police bikes weighed 600-800 lbs. He held the bikes out in front of himself and smacked them together like they were Styrofoam. 600+ pound bikes. It is harder to do that than pick them up in the Marvel universe's way of measurement, which is lifting the weigh over the head.


Trust me. Try to pick up two dumbbell weights, 25 lbs each, and lift them straight out in front of you. Now, try to smack them together.

NOW, try to pick those weights up and put them over your head with your arms completely extended.

Which is harder?


By far, it's the picking up up and extending them in front of you.

Now, if you guys want to scale it, find a weight that you can move as easily as Yulaw did. Smack them together. Once you find that weight, find a weight that is your peak. Meaning, find the most weight you can do and extend them straight out and bring your arms together while it is straight out.

Divide your peak weight with the first result and you'll get your multiplication factor. That's how much you would multiply Yulaw's motorcycle weight by to get a lifting power.



So, for instance, I am quite sure the weight required to be light enough will be something close to one pound in each hand, or less. I am sure the peak weight will be something like 25 pounds to 40 pounds. (I could probably do 40 lbs, at most...based on what I do at the gym.) that's 25-40 times more strength.

We have two bikes. So..

(600*2) * 25 = 30000

That's 15 tons.


And here's the high end.

800*2 * 40 = 64000

That's 32 tons.



Of course, that's just a quick example of how to anecdotally figure this out. There is a physics way of doing it and that is to use gravity as the force to overcome. So, you would have an exact limit in weight that would be a maximum. Meaning, that same force applied to a large enough weight would not be overcome, due to the force of gravity acting on that mass. So there is a ceiling of maximum weight he could pick up.


I am not sure of a real world physics number for a theoretical limit on weight he could pick up and slam together other than an unscientific poll from KMC users here. I could have 5 of us do it. Find the heaviest weight we could move as fast as Yulaw did, and then find the heaviest weight possible. Divide the latter by the former and then post it here. Then we could average our numbers and come up with a multiplication factor for Yulaw. Then, multiply the weight of the bikes, as soon as we find that out, by 2 and then by the factor mentioned in the last sentence, and, boom, we have Yulaw's maximum weight for picking up an irregular object and bringing them together, straight out in front of him.



Edit - Wait (lol, no pun intended), I could be totally wrong. I just remembered how fast Yulaw slammed those bikes together. I think that is superhuman. He moved the bikes faster than I peak human can move their arms in the same position he did. So, my numbers would be waaaaay off. It is much higher than what we would calculate, due to how fast he moved his arms. Maybe not. I dunno. I'll have to watch it again. If we just find the weight, then that's fine. It's still off because the bikes were being held out in front of him with the weight on the bikes not all being in his hands, but extending out from himself. Think centripital motion and applying force on a lever on an irregular object with irregular densities. So, in order to make this accurate, we'd have to move objects that are the same shape with the same proportional density to the bike. So, to make it make more sense, it would be harder to move, as fast, a bike that has proportional density and proportional weight to the real bikes Yulaw moved, than if we made the measurement against just dumbbells, as almost all the weight is in the hand.


That feat is inconsistent with his other feats. If a person could lift that much weight, combined with his obvious punching power....Yulaw would autokill anyone he hits. I understand that they couldn't do this in the movie, or the death toll would be extremely high...lol

Also, why wouldn't Yulaw be able to escape the restraints of the chair used to send him to the Hades universe. If you have that much strength, you should be able to break those bonds.

Ah, the chair, I forgot that.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And stopping the train is not a greater strength feat. Not even close. It's stopping a train with a similar force, over time, and not outright lifting 500 tons times the force of a train moving at 50 mph.

I did the math a while back and what I got was about 10 tons of force applied a second in order to stop a train in ....what was it?... 60 seconds? 90 seconds? (Yes, the numbers really did work out that nicely.)

Stopping an accelerating train not a greater feat than holding up two motorcycles? Absolute garbage. "10 tons of force" ? Force is measured in newtons noob. The rest of your "calculations" are also rubbish, half the crap is clearly made up by mixing up concepts (some completely made up out of your ass) and just pretending that its right. Please go back to PHYS101.

Stop spewing out all this "scientific" stuff. There is nothing scientific about your calculations because its wrong. Looks like someone is trying to "act" smart.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Of course not, they have no way of getting a grip on those buildings on the left and right. They would need webbing.

Even if Law was given webbing:

1: One he wouldn't have anywhere near the grip strength required to hold onto to them, and would get severe rope or "web" burns.

2: If webbing was wrapped/secured around any ideal location on his arm, his arms would be ripped out of his shoulder sockets immediately.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
That feat is inconsistent with his other feats. If a person could lift that much weight, combined with his obvious punching power....Yulaw would autokill anyone he hits. I understand that they couldn't do this in the movie, or the death toll would be extremely high...lol

You can't delete his feat because it doesn't suit your perception, though. The feat is still there. He bent thick metal bars, no problem, from his prison cell.

He also punched humans in an extremely slowed down bullet time. The humans were flying, even in the extreme slow motion bullet time, like they were balloons. This is also another parallel strength feat with the bikes.

The PIS is not in his picking up the bikes at all, but the durability of regular humans in that movie. he should have been punching right through the flesh of those humans when he runs out of that buiding, punching those cops all over the place, but he didn't.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Also, why wouldn't Yulaw be able to escape the restraints of the chair used to send him to the Hades universe. If you have that much strength, you should be able to break those bonds.

Simple: That chair was specifically designed to hold people similar to him. Likely, though, that he was the strongest to ever go through that chair. Also, if they had technology advanced enough to send people to other dimensions, you'd think they'd have restraints that could hold a 32 ton lifter in place.




Oh, and I'm sorry for using initialisms that you may not know. PIS = plot induced stupidty.





And, if you want to use PIS, Spiderman isn't strong enough to knock out even a regular human, with his punches. See his fight with doc ock on the building when doc ock captured aunt may.

Originally posted by Placidity
Stopping an accelerating train not a greater feat than holding up two motorcycles? Absolute garbage. "10 tons of force" ? Force is measured in newtons noob. The rest of your "calculations" are also rubbish, half the crap is clearly made up by mixing up concepts (some completely made up out of your ass) and just pretending that its right. Please go back to PHYS101.

Stop trolling the forums, again.

For the sake of simplicity, I kept force in an "easy to understand format".

You obviously don't know that force can be expressed in terms of pounds, tons, kilopounds, etc.

However, for the sake of simplicity, nothing was converted to newtons, kilograms, actual pounds of force. If you want the numbers to be acurate, feel free to correct it. Be my guest. The work doesn't, in anyway, actually reflect the actual work done in another thread.

However, the same basic rules apply: apply a specific force in terms of a second, on an object with x inertia, to arrive at a time when the outside force stops the other object, but no further than moving the object in the opposite vector.

You can recaculate with a LOT of work to just arrive at the simplisitic terms I have. Trust me.

You would know that, though, if you knew anything about what I was talking about.


Knowing all of that, can you honestly tell me, with your limited knowledge, that you can calculate in the same way without knowing the distance traveled and the mass of the train?


We know roughly what the mass of the train is. I couldn't find that table that shows the factor for how much something would "weigh" at a specific velocity.


Now, to put things more simply:

W = M*g*h

W = weight

M = Mass

G = Gravity

H = height

That's a very simple example of how newtons are NOT used in regards to WEIGHT of an object when moved with forces involved.





If i'm recalling that table correctly, the force exerted by the train doubles at 25 mph, and doubles again at 50...

The height , or rather, the distance is not needed since we have the quick table and force excerted by the train at that speed. Exerting an opposite force is the only thing necessary to negate that force when applied over time. You can calculate the times needed to stop things such as moving objects in space, moving cars, etc.

Originally posted by Placidity
Stop spewing out all this "scientific" stuff. There is nothing scientific about your calculations because its wrong. Looks like someone is trying to "act" smart.

Start "spewing" the correct numbers then. You know the old saying: put up or shutup.



Originally posted by Placidity
Even if Law was given webbing:

1: One he wouldn't have anywhere near the grip strength required to hold onto to them, and would get severe rope or "web" burns.

This is incorrect. The grip strenght requied to pick up the up those bikes and extend them all the way out in front of him while accelerating them as fast as he did, requires MUCH more grip strength than required to hold onto a very sticky substance.

Originally posted by Placidity
2: If webbing was wrapped/secured around any ideal location on his arm, his arms would be ripped out of his shoulder sockets immediately.

Except that, they wouldn't. Not even close.











Again, I'd like to see you calculate and arrive at something other than 10 tons of force, as I did.


Here's your numbers: 250 ton train moving at 50 mph.


How long would it take to stop the train if it takes 90 seconds to stop it?

On top of that, what is the inertia of the train at 50 mph, and what is the force Spiderman applied to the negative acceleration vector during those 90 seconds?

Ready...GO!







Edit - Someone mentioend the "accelerating train" argument before. If the train was still accelerating, you'd have to account for why the train stopped when he no longer had leverage over the train at the very end there.

You'll also have to know the friction coefficient needed by the wheels to overcome the the track and start to "peel-out".

* Why would I waste my time calculating this silly shit when anyone with half a brain and common sense knows stopping a train is a greater feat than Law's.

* You could probably figure out the distance if you looked at the landmarks of the surroundings, if you were really desperate. However, theres no need for that type of crap, because its obvious stopping a train requires more force.

* Law's grip strength shown is nowhere near Spider-mans. Able to hold a motorcyle is greater than holding onto a rope/web that is under tension equal to the force of the moving train? Yea thats right, he is sustaining the net force when he holds onto those webs, not "10 tons of force" or whatever crap you worked out.

* Force is not measured in tons. This is fact.

Originally posted by Placidity
* Why would I waste my time calculating this silly shit when anyone with half a brain and common sense knows stopping a train is a greater feat than Law's.

Simple, cause it's not.

You're confused on force over time. The force required of Yulaw to accelerate those two bikes, right out in front of him, from his sides, is much greater than the force applied to the train, by spiderman, over that 60-90 second time period.

Originally posted by Placidity
* * You could probably figure out the distance if you looked at the landmarks of the surroundings, if you were really desperate. However, theres no need for that type of crap, because its obvious stopping a train requires more force.

I also thought of another way: applying a negative acceleration vector to a 22 meter a second train over the the course of 60 seconds, if the final velocity is 0.

Originally posted by Placidity
* Law's grip strength shown is nowhere near Spider-mans. Able to hold a motorcyle is greater than holding onto a rope/web that is under tension equal to the force of the moving train? Yea thats right, he is sustaining the net force when he holds onto those webs, not "10 tons of force" or whatever crap you worked out.

No, that's not correction. Spiderman applied a force over time to decrease the trains inertia. It was a force overtime problem, not instantaneous velocity with an immediate stop. The metal wouldn't stand up to something like that. Not even close.

Originally posted by Placidity
* Force is not measured in tons. This is fact.

Force can be measured in pounds and then be converted to tonnage force by dividing by 2000, this is fact. However, that's not really what I did. I assumed that work was done already and guessed as to why the numbers worked out so well.


The real number I came up with was actually sometihng like 9000 kilograms of force AFTER I did my conversations.







Don't worry, though, I've asked my former advanced physics professor to validate my work. Here are the constraints I put on the work:


Edit - FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!


My mail account was not setup to save outgoing messages. I lost it. I don't feel like re-typing what I sent the professor. Eff dat.

I'll post up some more math tomorrow. AFTER I've spoken to the professor. If it's not 9000 KGs, then it's something close to it...which still doesn't make me wrong.

Whoa haermm

Originally posted by dadudemon

My mail account was not setup to save outgoing messages. I lost it. I don't feel like re-typing what I sent the professor. Eff dat.

I'll post up some more math tomorrow. AFTER I've spoken to the professor. If it's not 9000 KGs, then it's something close to it...which still doesn't make me wrong.

It will be interesting although I'm sure you will be disappointed. Make sure to show him the two videos (i.e Train and Law). You must have some relationship with your professor. Most wouldn't waste time on this, or I assume they wouldn't anyway. It will not be as simple a problem as you think, he would have to consider the webbing as well as its elasticity.

Sorry, ton is not a unit of measure of force. I don't care what other stuff you want to add on to it. My statement stands and it cannot be faulted.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Whoa haermm


Just wait. I'mma 'bout to validate my work with a professional. Then I'll post all the work we did on here. I'm almost positive it's close to what I came up with as I worked this out before in another thread that I was aruging about this same exact spiderman feat. I remember it taking forever to derive the correct numbers and formulas to get the math right and after I converted it, it came to about 10 tons of force a second.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You can't delete his feat because it doesn't suit your perception, though. The feat is still there. He bent thick metal bars, no problem, from his prison cell.

He also punched humans in an extremely slowed down bullet time. The humans were flying, even in the extreme slow motion bullet time, like they were balloons. This is also another parallel strength feat with the bikes.

The PIS is not in his picking up the bikes at all, but the durability of regular humans in that movie. he should have been punching right through the flesh of those humans when he runs out of that buiding, punching those cops all over the place, but he didn't.



Simple: That chair was specifically designed to hold people similar to him. Likely, though, that he was the strongest to ever go through that chair. Also, if they had technology advanced enough to send people to other dimensions, you'd think they'd have restraints that could hold a 32 ton lifter in place.




Oh, and I'm sorry for using initialisms that you may not know. PIS = plot induced stupidty.





And, if you want to use PIS, Spiderman isn't strong enough to knock out even a regular human, with his punches. See his fight with doc ock on the building when doc ock captured aunt may.




I do know what PIS means. I've posted in the comic vs. forum long enough to know what that means. However, I do agree with most of what you're saying. Movies are filled with PIS. If not, a plot couldn't really develop...lol. With that said, I think you need to take the law of averages, even when PIS is involved.

We don't know for certain that the "chair" was designed to hold someone with that strength. The movie doesn't say. It is only assumption that it could or couldn't. In any case, even if the chair was strong enough, he wasn't strong enough to fight his way out of the guards custody...the one's leading him and binding him to the chair. With that said, Yulaw had plenty of time to recover from the last "jump"...since Gabe was put in the chair first. He wasn't even strong enough to keep his grip on the gun before the MRI machine tore it from his grasp. In truth, Yulaw has many high and low showings...so, it is hard to guess exactly how strong he really is. Spiderman had steady feats of strength that makes it easier to quantify a particular strength level.

As far as punching power goes...I agree PIS is an issue. However, Spiderman is known to pull his punches to prevent killing people. Yulaw wouldn't care about that.

Spiderman still has better speed feats than Yulaw. The cop clocked Yulaw running at 50 miles an hour. Spiderman has traversed the city faster than that..as he kept up with high speed cop chases through the city. Also, in the first Spiderman movie...the bully fighting Parker is seen punching in slow motion compared to Parker's enhanced perception and reaction skills...not much different from the way Yulaw was fighting during the movie.

I'm going to agree with Mon here.....because he put up too many numbers to be wrong.... So....much....math

Originally posted by KingD19
I'm going to agree with Mon here.....because he put up too many numbers to be wrong.... So....much....math

I could still be wrong.

My old professor seemed amused about it, and he added an "lol" at the end of his E-mail. When he laughs at the end of a statement in class, that's usually when someone in class said something wrong.



I'll see him tonight.




Then we can put into perspective.


Originally posted by Placidity
It will be interesting although I'm sure you will be disappointed. Make sure to show him the two videos (i.e Train and Law). You must have some relationship with your professor. Most wouldn't waste time on this, or I assume they wouldn't anyway. It will not be as simple a problem as you think, he would have to consider the webbing as well as its elasticity.

1. I won't be disappointed. I already challenged anyone to change the 10 tons of force number, but no one did. Not even you despite you saying "tons of force don't exist".

2. I probably don't have to show him the videos at all. He's cool like that.

3. I was a damn good student. From his mouth, one of his best.

4. Every professor has "office-time" that you can come by and meet with him or her. I've never met a professor that did not have some sort of office hours. You just have to schedule time.

5. He loves physics, just the same as I do.

6. I've already simplified the problem. There will be no elasticity physics applied. We will assume average force as it is very difficult to assume elasticity, especially when his webbing was coming off the walls...so, we can assume the "springiness" reached a critical point. We will assume that it was the "average force" over time.

Originally posted by Placidity
Sorry, ton is not a unit of measure of force. I don't care what other stuff you want to add on to it. My statement stands and it cannot be faulted.


Good short-ton force, metric ton force, pound-force, ton-force, long-ton force, etc.

Here's a website dedicated to converting all of those for you:

http://www.convertworld.com/en/force/Pound-force.html

And, no, I did not use those units of force in my 10-tons of force guestimate. I was trying to figure out a quick way to come up with what I did in that other spiderman thread. We'll see. It shouldn't take but a few minutes to figure this out, imo.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Whoa haermm

K....Met with him.



1. Mad props to Placidity for calling my bullshit.


2. My professor calculated much less force than I originally calculated. He came out with almost 7 metric tons of force.



Here's the math as I did it after talking to him:

It's actually MUCH easier than I was doing it before.

250 tons moving at 50 mph

slows down to 0 mph in 60 seconds

what force was applied to the moving train to stop it?

250 tons = 250*2000lbs = 500000lbs

2.2 lb = 1 kg

500000/2.2 = 227272.7 kg

50 mph = 5280ft*50 = 264000 feet per hour.

we need feet per second.

264000/60minutes/60seconds = 73.33 feet per second.

1 meter = 3.28 feet

73.33/3.28 = 22.35 meters a second

/60 to get negative acceleration, or, commonly called deceleration.

22.35/60 = .3725 meters a second a second.



So, here everything is in metric units.


227272.72 KGs moving at 22.35 meters a second.

It is stopped in 60 seconds. What is the force applied to the train to get it to stop.

f = M*a

m = 227272.72

a = 22.35

f = 84956.09 KGs a second a second.

about 85 kilonewtons of force.

convert to tons.


93.69 tons.

That's how much force Spiderman had to apply.



Spiderman is strong.



Now, I might be doing something wrong. He may have just been off by a decimal at one point in order to get tons, but I don't see how the math works out like that.


So, I'll have to come back to this.

Someone check my work and see.

JADEN! I need your help.


My professor typed that shit really fast on his calculator and wasn't really clear at what he was doing. I don't know how he got his number, but, working it out, I got a number almost 10 times are large as his.

This crap again?

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1430/spidernegro.jpg

When Dr. Octopus breaks the controls of the train, it's moving at an initial speed of 35.76 m/s (80 mph). Each car of the train is a 2200 series, as according to http://www.chicago-l.org/multimedia/Spiderman2/. The mass of one car of the train is 21,500 kg (47,399 lbs), as according to http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/roster/2200.html, and since the train has 6 cars total, its total mass is 129,000 kg (284,396 lbs). Assuming there's 20 passengers in each car of the train, and assuming they all have a mass of 67.5 kg (149 lbs), the total mass of the train is 137,100 kg (302,254 lbs). Finally, the time the train was stopped was found to be 46 seconds. Since we know that the train ends up completely stopped, we can calculate the acceleration of the train over the time that it is stopped, using the formula a = (v–vo)/t: a represents the acceleration, v is the final velocity, vo is the initial velocity, and t is the time over which the object is accelerated.

a = (v–vo)/t = (0–35.76 m/s)/46 s = -0.78 m/s2

In this case, the acceleration is negative, since the train is being slowed down rather than sped up.

Using the acceleration and the total mass of the train and its passengers, we can calculate the force Spiderman exerts to stop the train (tension in his web). We can calculate this by applying Newton's Second Law of Motion, where ΣF = ma. ΣF is the net force (in this case, tension), m is the mass, and a is the acceleration.

ΣF = ma = (137100kg)(-0.78 m/s2) = -106,938 newtons

In more conventional units, 106,938 newtons is equal to 24,041 pounds-force, or 10,905 kilograms-force.

As a bonus, we decided to calculate the total distance the train traveled from the time Dr. Octopus destroyed the controls to the time Spider-Man stopped it. We can do this using the formula s = vot + ½at2: s is distance, a represents the acceleration, vo is the initial velocity, and t is the time over which the distance is traveled.

s = vot + ½at2 = (35.76 m/s)(46 s) + ½(-0.78 m/s2)(46 s)2 = 819.72 meters

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2005/SpiderMan.shtml

Originally posted by Robtard
This crap again?

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1430/spidernegro.jpg

When Dr. Octopus breaks the controls of the train, it's moving at an initial speed of 35.76 m/s (80 mph). Each car of the train is a 2200 series, as according to http://www.chicago-l.org/multimedia/Spiderman2/. The mass of one car of the train is 21,500 kg (47,399 lbs), as according to http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/roster/2200.html, and since the train has 6 cars total, its total mass is 129,000 kg (284,396 lbs). Assuming there's 20 passengers in each car of the train, and assuming they all have a mass of 67.5 kg (149 lbs), the total mass of the train is 137,100 kg (302,254 lbs). Finally, the time the train was stopped was found to be 46 seconds. Since we know that the train ends up completely stopped, we can calculate the acceleration of the train over the time that it is stopped, using the formula a = (v–vo)/t: a represents the acceleration, v is the final velocity, vo is the initial velocity, and t is the time over which the object is accelerated.

a = (v–vo)/t = (0–35.76 m/s)/46 s = -0.78 m/s2

In this case, the acceleration is negative, since the train is being slowed down rather than sped up.

Using the acceleration and the total mass of the train and its passengers, we can calculate the force Spiderman exerts to stop the train (tension in his web). We can calculate this by applying Newton's Second Law of Motion, where ΣF = ma. ΣF is the net force (in this case, tension), m is the mass, and a is the acceleration.

ΣF = ma = (137100kg)(-0.78 m/s2) = -106,938 newtons

In more conventional units, 106,938 newtons is equal to 24,041 pounds-force, or 10,905 kilograms-force.

As a bonus, we decided to calculate the total distance the train traveled from the time Dr. Octopus destroyed the controls to the time Spider-Man stopped it. We can do this using the formula s = vot + ½at2: s is distance, a represents the acceleration, vo is the initial velocity, and t is the time over which the distance is traveled.

s = vot + ½at2 = (35.76 m/s)(46 s) + ½(-0.78 m/s2)(46 s)2 = 819.72 meters

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2005/SpiderMan.shtml

Hahaha, What an awesome find Rob!

The site also talks about Spider-man's free fall and hitting the roof. He landed at 88 miles per hour and got up without any serious injuries. Another plus to his durability.

Originally posted by Placidity
Hahaha, What an awesome find Rob!

Though impressive, I think it's underrated. It doesn't factor in that Spider-man would have had to overcome the driving force of the diesel-powered electric engines which are rated at several thousand horsepower, on-top of the trains mass and speed.

Doc Ock first set the lever to max speed (you see the train surge forward) than ripped it out; the Train Conductor then said "I can't stop it", meaing the train as actively being pushed, not just going with inertia.

Originally posted by Placidity
The site also talks about Spider-man's free fall and hitting the roof. He landed at 88 miles per hour and got up without any serious injuries. Another plus to his durability.

Spider-man's durability is way the **** up there. The being pounded on by 7-8 story Sandman pretty much speaks for itself.

Originally posted by Robtard
This crap again?

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1430/spidernegro.jpg

When Dr. Octopus breaks the controls of the train, it's moving at an initial speed of 35.76 m/s (80 mph). Each car of the train is a 2200 series, as according to http://www.chicago-l.org/multimedia/Spiderman2/. The mass of one car of the train is 21,500 kg (47,399 lbs), as according to http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/roster/2200.html, and since the train has 6 cars total, its total mass is 129,000 kg (284,396 lbs). Assuming there's 20 passengers in each car of the train, and assuming they all have a mass of 67.5 kg (149 lbs), the total mass of the train is 137,100 kg (302,254 lbs). Finally, the time the train was stopped was found to be 46 seconds. Since we know that the train ends up completely stopped, we can calculate the acceleration of the train over the time that it is stopped, using the formula a = (v–vo)/t: a represents the acceleration, v is the final velocity, vo is the initial velocity, and t is the time over which the object is accelerated.

a = (v–vo)/t = (0–35.76 m/s)/46 s = -0.78 m/s2

In this case, the acceleration is negative, since the train is being slowed down rather than sped up.

Using the acceleration and the total mass of the train and its passengers, we can calculate the force Spiderman exerts to stop the train (tension in his web). We can calculate this by applying Newton's Second Law of Motion, where ΣF = ma. ΣF is the net force (in this case, tension), m is the mass, and a is the acceleration.

ΣF = ma = (137100kg)(-0.78 m/s2) = -106,938 newtons

In more conventional units, 106,938 newtons is equal to 24,041 pounds-force, or 10,905 kilograms-force.

As a bonus, we decided to calculate the total distance the train traveled from the time Dr. Octopus destroyed the controls to the time Spider-Man stopped it. We can do this using the formula s = vot + ½at2: s is distance, a represents the acceleration, vo is the initial velocity, and t is the time over which the distance is traveled.

s = vot + ½at2 = (35.76 m/s)(46 s) + ½(-0.78 m/s2)(46 s)2 = 819.72 meters

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2005/SpiderMan.shtml

That's the same exact math I did. I came up with 85 Kilonewtons, they come up with 107 Kilonewtons.





The difference is the speed of the train and weight. I found a website that said a passenger train weighs 250 tons, or 500000 lbs. I estimated the speed at 50 MPH and the length of time he spent stopping it at 60 seconds.


And none of you commented on it, despite my math being correct.

Originally posted by Robtard
Though impressive, I think it's underrated. It doesn't factor in that Spider-man would have had to overcome the driving force of the diesel-powered electric engines which are rated at several thousand horsepower, on-top of the trains mass and speed.

Why does the train stop, after Spiderman stops exerting force? PIS?

Originally posted by Robtard
Doc Ock first set the lever to max speed (you see the train surge forward) than ripped it out; the Train Conductor then said "I can't stop it", meaing the train as actively being pushed, not just going with inertia.

This I agree with. However, at some point, the engines stopped. Or else the train would have kept going over the edge.




Now, there may be some sort of emergency mechanism to prevent the train from going any further once it reached a certain spot on the dead end track. An emergency stop, if you will, or an emergency engine stop.

^ Well its either your speculation or that the writers didn't really think about every minute detail.

Originally posted by Placidity
^ Well its either your speculation or that the writers didn't really think about every minute detail.

In other words, PIS.

Edit - You'd think actualy stopping the train from "locomoting" itself would be an important plot point, though. Not a minute detail. That's a pretty big and important portion of him "rescuing" them. There has to be some sort of resolution on stopping the broken controls, especially when it was a plot point for ol' spidey to overcome.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Why does the train stop, after Spiderman stops exerting force? PIS?

This I agree with. However, at some point, the engines stopped. Or else the train would have kept going over the edge.

Now, there may be some sort of emergency mechanism to prevent the train from going any further once it reached a certain spot on the dead end track. An emergency stop, if you will, or an emergency engine stop.

The writer just wrote in that Spider-man used max effort to stop a train(hence his total exhaustion), didn't get into every minute detail.. But realistically, if the counter-force exerted was greater than the engines output, the engines would likely stall and shut off.

Yes, most logical is Spider-man stalled the engines, ie forced them off. Then it was a matter of ovecoming the mass/inertia of the train. So it's really two feats of uber-strength rolled together. Thier math and your math didn't adjust for the engines horse-power, so the number should/would be higher.

There is/was, but Doc Ock destroyed it when he ripped out the lever. The Train Conductor frantically pressed that red button (the kill switch), but it was out of order.

Originally posted by Robtard
The writer just wrote in that Spider-man used max effort to stop a train(hence his total exhaustion), didn't get into every minute detail.. But realistically, if the counter-force exerted was greater than the engines output, the engines would likely stall and shut off.

Okay, I'll buy that.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, most logical is Spider-man stalled the engines, ie forced them off. Then it was a matter of ovecoming the mass/inertia of the train. So it's really two feats of uber-strength rolled together. Thier math and your math didn't adjust for the engines horse-power, so the number should/would be higher.

I don't know as much about cars compared to someone like Quiero Moto (Mota?), however, I am not sure the engines would have shut off. Wouldn't they just "peel-out" instead of stall? I don't think those trains are manual transmissions. I guess a automatic CAN stall. I dunno.

Originally posted by Robtard
There is/was, but Doc Ock destroyed it when he ripped out the lever. The Train Conductor frantically pressed that red button (the kill switch), but it was out of order.

I'm talking about an external mechanism to the engineers cab, itself. I saw it in that new movie that had John Travolta in it. (Sad that some "facts" I know come from movies.)

There was a "stop" mechanism that the "train" had available at Taking of Pelham 123. They had to disable that mechanism, which was wireless or something like that, in order to get the train to keep driving.

But, I'll take the engines being stalled, as well.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Could Gabe or YuLaw have stopped the train, or held up the cable car like Spidey did?

Dude Ellen Ripley and Elastigirl from Incredibles probably could have held onto that cable car. Not not kidding either. As ridiculous as those gripping feats were, they still happened.

Originally posted by Robtard
Spider-man's durability is way the **** up there. The being pounded on by 7-8 story Sandman pretty much speaks for itself. Yeah, his poor Spidey hole.