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Thank you very much Glenn Beck, Michelle Bachmann, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and the rest of you morons. I wonder how many more people are going to die before someone shuts you idiots down for inciting people to violence.

How are they related? You're going to have to give me a bit of background information as to how they've incited this kind of thing.

We don't actually know it was a murder.

Besides it's the FBI investigating which means that people will simply claim it's a set up.

they found the body on 9/12...

though, like you Jello, I believe this is probably just the tip of the iceberg.

you mean other than the fact that this guy was hanged and the word "FED" was scrawled across him? That's not clear evidence of murder?

Michelle Bachmann and Glenn Beck and their peers whippped up all that fury by saying that the census takers were all ACORN and that they were registering conservatives to be deported to FEMA concentration camps and that everyone should protect themselves from census takers and refuse to participate.

Originally posted by jaden101
How are they related? You're going to have to give me a bit of background information as to how they've incited this kind of thing.

likely not "inciting", however, they are playcating to a certain section of the American public who are somewhat disenfranchised with America, and VERY angry. You know, "responsible" gun owners who bring loaded assualt rifles to emotionally charged protests.

There is a Glen Beck video where he goes over the "hidden" communist/Rockafeller agenda by looking at sculptures and stuff around the NBC building that is literally the same as finding Moloch the owl in the streets of Washington.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Michelle Bachmann and Glenn Beck and their peers whippped up all that fury by saying that the census takers were all ACORN and that they were registering conservatives to be deported to FEMA concentration camps and that everyone should protect themselves from census takers and refuse to participate.

WHAT?

link?

that is inciting...

This is ****ing unbelievable. The most horrifying bit of news i've heard in a while.

This is the wonderful beginning of the revolution. Once it is finished a perfect utopia will rise in it's place.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
you mean other than the fact that this guy was hanged and the word "FED" was scrawled across him? That's not clear evidence of murder?

Michelle Bachmann and Glenn Beck and their peers whippped up all that fury by saying that the census takers were all ACORN and that they were registering conservatives to be deported to FEMA concentration camps and that everyone should protect themselves from census takers and refuse to participate.

How exactly is it that people fall for that? Given that the "concentration camps" were built under a conservative government in the 1st place.

Bizarre.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
This is the wonderful beginning of the revolution. Once it is finished a perfect utopia will rise in it's place.
I wonder how long before Michael Savage whips that line out.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I wonder how long before Michael Savage whips that line out.

His show aired already, so probably tomorrow.

Originally posted by jaden101
How exactly is it that people fall for that? Given that the "concentration camps" were built under a conservative government in the 1st place.

Bizarre.

Actually, I believe they were first built by Truman to be used in case of communist uprising. They were appropriated for Martial Law by Oliver North, the author of REX 84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrQ5Ez6Gork&feature=PlayList&p=E065C15D30EC6F5B&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=35

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZS9UW0okY4&feature=PlayList&p=6BED75B8E7B82D0B&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=16

Just two examples

The first concentration camps, outside of Native Americans, were by FDR's WW2 government.

Whoever did this needs help. Idiot.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
The first concentration camps, outside of Native Americans, were by FDR's WW2 government.

Whoever did this needs help. Idiot.

Idiot or true patriot?

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
The first concentration camps, outside of Native Americans, were by FDR's WW2 government.

Whoever did this needs help. Idiot.
Idiot? He is just defending himself from the horrors of government regulation...

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Actually, I believe they were first built by Truman to be used in case of communist uprising. They were appropriated for Martial Law by Oliver North, the author of REX 84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrQ5Ez6Gork&feature=PlayList&p=E065C15D30EC6F5B&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=35

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZS9UW0okY4&feature=PlayList&p=6BED75B8E7B82D0B&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=16

Just two examples

The FEMA camps are a relatively new thing are they not. Mostly built post 9/11 and post Katrina?

That was my understanding anyway.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Idiot? He is just defending himself from the horrors of government regulation...
No, he just killed someone because he disagreed with him.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
No, he just killed someone because he disagreed with him.
No, i'm sure the census taker was going to use the info to force him into a life under a government run dictatorship... with free healthcare.

Nah. Not a dictatorship, more a oligarchy.

P.S. Healthcare's not free anywhere.

It's more an expression on the type of payment. Obviously you'd pay taxes for it.

Ya I know I'm messing with you.

The camps and the railway system to them were built either by Truman or Eisenhower. I'm pretty sure it was Truman and they were to be used to detain communists in the possibility that the US was being invaded by the USSR.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Idiot or true patriot?



Your constant sarcasm and parody statements are fun.


*Pictures George Bush saying that, but seriously*

I swear, dude, if there was a newb that just stumbled across our little GDF place here, they'd think you were the biggest idiot ever.

What sarcasm?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Idiot or true patriot? Depends who's winning in the end.

According to an ABC article (http://abcnews.go.com/US/census-interviews-suspended-worker-found-hanged-kentucky/story?id=8659585) there is reason to be suspicious as to whether or not this was motivated by such "anti-state" sentiments.

Apparently, the part of Kentucky this guy was doing a census in is known for "meth labs and hidden marijuana fields", meaning that his murder might be related to wrong place wrong time.

My initial reaction is that only the most obscenely unintelligent of organized criminals would so blatantly leave the body of a murdered federal official in plain sight, and meth dealers aren't really in the habit of leaving such "messages" to feds. Also, that the computer he used was still in the truck would seem to indicate that the people who committed the crime were not otherwise criminals, or that they were cautious about tracking devices (though, such criminals would be the last who would leave a federal corpse as a message).

The wikipedia of Clay County mentions nothing of such crime, but does mention that it is a dry county (alcohol is prohibited). It has never been a democrat region, and McCain took it by 75%. According to http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7001 , Clay county has been marred with election rigging. Operation UNITE, and anti-drug program in Kentucky, mentions clay county as having a serious drug problem (http://www.operationunite.org/coalitions/counties/clay.php).

My only thoughts on the drug issue, given how remote the area he was found in, was that he was going to grab, and was outed as a federal employee, and his dealer overreacted. However, there is no evidence of him having any drug habits, and people say he was a very innocent and christian man.

Also:



http://wokv.com/common/ap/2009/09/24/D9ATML480.html

so, maybe premature to say, for sure, that it was anti-government ultra conservatives, but it seems to be the most logical answer, given the incomplete evidence that has thus far been released to the media.

So what's the Fox News response gonna be? Not running the story? Claiming it was all a set up by ACORN coordinated by Obama through the Kenyan Embassy?

Considering this case an how far they've been pushing hate speech on tv and radio, does anyone wanna give a prediction about how soon it'll become acceptable to blame everything on the freemasons and the zionist occupied government? War on Christmas any one?

The site I sourced last, http://wokv.com/common/ap/2009/09/24/D9ATML480.html, or WOKV, is a subsidiary of FOX and was the first to report on the warnings of the retired police officer to the census worker, afaik. I can imagine they will push the drug dealer angle if Fox-proper covers it at all.

Freemasons? Already out there. I'd be willing to bet a good portion of Americans believe in mason/skull & Bones conspiracies, and the Beck stuff I saw about "communist" imagery in New York was all but that. Whether actual antisemitism becomes acceptable, I'd argue the Jewish lobby is too strong for that, but the code words will become more popular. I'm waiting to find a copy of The Protocols lying around campus, lol. I could see a indirect subsidiary of Fox publishing directly antisemitic stuff more than Fox itself, just for the plausible deniability.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jbzG_BlkG2Hfc818EPRRn1bBlP6gD9AT92400

Thank you very much Glenn Beck, Michelle Bachmann, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and the rest of you morons. I wonder how many more people are going to die before someone shuts you idiots down for inciting people to violence.
Great, Kentucky....where I live.

Didn't a radio host recently lose their job for inferring that a black person should go back to Africa?

otherwise, terrifying that such hate really need not be concealed...

Limbaugh has a history of telling black callers he doesn't agree with to "take the bone out of your nose". He must get it from Dad and Uncle Limbaugh, prestigious lawyers who fought racial integration well into the mid-70's.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Limbaugh has a history of telling black callers he doesn't agree with to "take the bone out of your nose". He must get it from Dad and Uncle Limbaugh, prestigious lawyers who fought racial integration well into the mid-70's.

What's sad is some people love that guy and think he's a god.

I would love to pwn his ass on his ill-conceived ideas on drugs, most especially anabolic steroids.

You think they'd let me on to debate that with him? awesome

I often wonder if this is such an American problem, or if that type of sentiment is echoed in places like Canada, only people don't talk about it.

Either way, I guess in my naivete I had supposed that overt racism was still enough to lose listeners.

What does Limbaugh have to say about McVeigh? LOL, what does Beck say about McVeigh?

Originally posted by dadudemon
You think they'd let me on to debate that with him? awesome

your hands would be artificially tied, in that, you would be limited to using factual information, which fares poorly against made-up-on-the-drop-of-a-hat.

Originally posted by inimalist
I often wonder if this is such an American problem, or if that type of sentiment is echoed in places like Canada, only people don't talk about it.

Either way, I guess in my naivete I had supposed that overt racism was still enough to lose listeners.

What does Limbaugh have to say about McVeigh? LOL, what does Beck say about McVeigh?


"I admire his service to this country in the first war against the infidels. I deeply regret that he took the blame for what was obviously an attack on America by Osama bin Laden which Clinton covered up by blaming it on noble American patriots who were accusing him of killing Vince Foster."

no wonder the FBI never found his accomplices, half the ****ing country thought it was a cover-up...

that wasn't a real quote, that was a joke.

I'm going to pass it off as real...

9/11 was an inside job; it was perpetrated by Clinton and his Jewish allies; this is a fact.

Does anyone really think it was just a coincidence that Clinton let Osama escape, when he could have ordered the kill? Does anyone think Gore letting the 2000 election just go was due to goodwill?

It was a set-up to villify Bush (who they knew would go to war) and smear the Conservatives/Republicans, paving the way for Obama in 2008. Fact. Fact. Fact.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jbzG_BlkG2Hfc818EPRRn1bBlP6gD9AT92400

Thank you very much Glenn Beck, Michelle Bachmann, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and the rest of you morons. I wonder how many more people are going to die before someone shuts you idiots down for inciting people to violence.

No, it was the liberals who did it to frame Glenn Beck. How do we know you didn't do it, Darth Jello? After all you do have the word Death in your name.

I was also responsible for the Zodiac killings. How did I commit crimes that happened 16 years before I was born? The answer: I'm very clever.

And yes, this is a Beavis and Butt-Head reference.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
I was also responsible for the Zodiac killings. How did I commit crimes that happened 16 years before I was born? The answer: I'm very clever.

And yes, this is a Beavis and Butt-Head reference.

IMHO this thread belongs in the conspiracy forum.

How is a federal census worker getting murdered by a bunch of right wing lunatics a conspiracy? We're talking about the situation, the danger it presents, and debunking the bullshit they believe in. Shaky, you have this Jesse Helms-ian way of completely missing the point and seemingly making up threads and posts that aren't there to begin with.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
How is a federal census worker getting murdered by a bunch of right wing lunatics a conspiracy? We're talking about the situation, the danger it presents, and debunking the bullshit they believe in.

No, I was talking about your connection to people like Glen Beck.

Implied or explicit calls to violence from a supposed "news source" + Stupid angry people with weapons=violence

Doesn't sound like a conspiracy to me. Sounds like arithmetic unless your definition of the word conspiracy defers from common english usage.

We can argue about the motivation behind the calls for violence be they ratings or blood lust or racism or a genuine call for revolution by fascists which may be more conspiracy oriented but otherwise, I don't see what your getting at.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jbzG_BlkG2Hfc818EPRRn1bBlP6gD9AT92400


Perhaps pummeling and tying homosexuals to fences has lost its sizzle.

Well, they had 150 years of lynching black people and they just got tired of it and needed some variety in complexion.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Implied or explicit calls to violence from a supposed "news source" + Stupid angry people with weapons=violence

So, you have never watched or listened to Glen Beck.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Doesn't sound like a conspiracy to me. Sounds like arithmetic unless your definition of the word conspiracy defers from common english usage.

We can argue about the motivation behind the calls for violence be they ratings or blood lust or racism or a genuine call for revolution by fascists which may be more conspiracy oriented but otherwise, I don't see what your getting at.

There have never been any calls for violence, as far as I have heard. You are assuming something, and then taking it to a further degree. That is conspiracy.

you mean the guy who talked about wanting Dennis Kucinich to blow up and wanting to murder Michael Moore? Or the guy who does violent "performance art" to illustrate how he views what liberals are doing to America, such as dousing someone with gas or boiling a rubber frog?

Originally posted by Darth Jello
you mean the guy who talked about wanting Dennis Kucinich to blow up and wanting to murder Michael Moore? Or the guy who does violent "performance art" to illustrate how he views what liberals are doing to America, such as dousing someone with gas or boiling a rubber frog?

The point is, you are jumping to a conclusion that crosses the line of conspiracy. You are convened, you are right, and you need to tell everyone about it. You have that right, but to me, you sound just like all the other conspiracy nuts.

Can't you just make a separate thread called "Continuous tiring arguments"?

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Can't you just make a separate thread called "Continuous tiring arguments"?

If you put your conspiracy threads in the right place.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Can't you just make a separate thread called "Continuous tiring arguments"?

Or maybe "constant failure to even address other people points and then inexplicably act as though they have been refuted".

Might be too long.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
IMHO this thread belongs in the conspiracy forum.

What is the conspiracy he is proposing?

Jello would have to insinuate that Beck was directly involved in the killings, rather than placating to and riling up a section of the population.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The point is, you are jumping to a conclusion that crosses the line of conspiracy. You are convened, you are right, and you need to tell everyone about it. You have that right, but to me, you sound just like all the other conspiracy nuts.
How on Earth is this a conspiracy. This is very simple. People like Michelle Bachman have incited violence from right-wing loonies. The violence occurs. Maybe it had nothing to do with Bachman but it is certainly a plausible theory worthy of discussion.

Originally posted by King Kandy
How on Earth is this a conspiracy. This is very simple. People like Michelle Bachman have incited violence from right-wing loonies. The violence occurs. Maybe it had nothing to do with Bachman but it is certainly a plausible theory worthy of discussion.

Sure, but I'm talking about the connection, where there is none. If a connection is found, then I agree. Until then...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Sure, but I'm talking about the connection, where there is none. If a connection is found, then I agree. Until then...

indeed

the two leading theories for cause of murder are by anti-government radicals or by drug dealers. I've given reasons why I personally think the drug dealer explanation lacks legs, but you are free to differ in opinion.

what theory do you think best fits the evidence as we currently know it? Why do you think the anti-government angle isn't the best fit?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Sure, but I'm talking about the connection, where there is none. If a connection is found, then I agree. Until then...
We're free to speculate about things not yet known, Shaky. Nobody is going to say that's it's a fact that pundits caused this. But I think that pundits as a contributing factor may certainly be plausible.

Actually I'm advocating for following the law. Incitement to violence and panic are not protected speech.

Originally posted by King Kandy
We're free to speculate about things not yet known, Shaky. Nobody is going to say that's it's a fact that pundits caused this. But I think that pundits as a contributing factor may certainly be plausible.

OK, very true. I will unload my rifle.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
In a way Death Jello is inciting violence.

If Glen Beck ended up dead from someone who legitimately took Jello to mean he wished them killed, then I suppose I would support an investigation into how culpable he was for such action.

There are some very angry, very ignorant people in America. Not that everyone who partakes in conservative media is, but the media does placate to this crowd. They should be held accountable if their message is causing such deranged people to believe they should be violent.

Though, I think actual "incitement" would be very hard to prove in this case. Jello has posted some quotes from some of these individuals that paint them as disgusting racists and intolerant bigots, but I don't know if any come to the point of culpability in violence.

Michelle Bachman said that "having a revolution every now and then is a good thing." and that American's should be "armed and ready" against Obama's policies...

indeed, but in the context of American Revolutionary rhetoric, that is understandable.

I'm of the opinion that there would need to be a smoking gun here, or at least more of a connection between the violent individual and Bachman than having just heard his opinion that there should be revolutions and some times.

Like, I talk about the inherent violence of government and dismantling the apparatus of the state, sometimes in less academic terms than that. If saying revolutions can sometimes be good is akin to inciting violence, I've got trouble

I think the "armed and ready" bit is troublesome. She said it was metaphorical but there is something below the surface here imo.

I agree, but disagreeing with someone or being paranoid about their motives are not enough to deny them basic liberties. She can say what she wants, but that "armed and ready", in the context of armed individuals at protests, I think opens her up to some accountability if they do something stupid (aside from the stupid action of carrying a loaded gun in an emotional crowd).

Also, strange I assumed she was a he...

I know, because Michelle is such a manly name right?

I'm not saying her speech should have been prohibited. I'm just saying she has definitely done some things to incite violence, that bear relevance to this topic.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I know, because Michelle is such a manly name right?

I know, I'm a terribly misogynist

Originally posted by King Kandy
I'm not saying her speech should have been prohibited. I'm just saying she has definitely done some things to incite violence, that bear relevance to this topic.

They certainly could be taken that way. What is missing is the directly linkable violence.

If it is found that the murderers in this case were fans of Bachman, and the armed and ready comment made them feel they needed to violently protect themselves from a census taker, then ya, I'm in favor of an investigation.

I don't know, I'm really radical on speech issues. I'd say incitement should be nearly as hard as conspiracy charges to make stick, just because I'd rather have free, but hateful, speech.

I'm not saying she should be investigated. Just that it could have contributed. Just idle speculation on my part.

it totally could have. The FBI is being deliberately tight lipped about the matter.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
a separate thread called "Continuous tiring arguments"
That'll subsume half of KMC GDF topics.

New details form an AP story- apparantly the guy was found naked and bound with duct tape when he was hanged.

You know, obvious signs of suicide.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jbzG_BlkG2Hfc818EPRRn1bBlP6gD9AT92400

Thank you very much Glenn Beck, Michelle Bachmann, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and the rest of you morons. I wonder how many more people are going to die before someone shuts you idiots down for inciting people to violence.

And....it turns out it was a suicide.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/24/AR2009112401632.html?hpid=moreheadlines

Yes, I'm sure Danny Casolaro was a suicide too...

Sparkman and Casolaro I'd believe

not Kenny Trentadue though....

How is that tea bagging? I thought tea bagging was someone who crouches down above another person's face. You know, like in Halo.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Yes, I'm sure Danny Casolaro was a suicide too...

So you think it was a murder?

Were there any other victims btw?

That depends, check out the latest hate crimes statistics

Originally posted by Darth Jello
That depends, check out the latest hate crimes statistics

Lordy.


Dude, you honestly think that it wouldn't be all over the news IF there were others? You saw how retarded they got with this one guy committing suicide....but tried to pass it off as homicide.

Like I said, there are tards on both sides: libtards AND conservatards.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
That depends, check out the latest hate crimes statistics How does that make sense?


But these are the ones for 2008 apparently

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk34/feministing/hate_crimes.jpg

I do wonder how that relates to this guy committing suicide while trying to make others get the blame.

I'm not convinced he committed suicide. I think there are political reasons for not categorizing this as a murder (i.e. Danny Casolaro/Inslaw). As for hate crimes, I actually meant the latest 2009 statistics that have been in the news because they are going up. Not to mention the neonazi presence at tea bagger events.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
I'm not convinced he committed suicide. I think there are political reasons for not categorizing this as a murder (i.e. Danny Casolaro/Inslaw). As for hate crimes, I actually meant the latest 2009 statistics that have been in the news because they are going up. Not to mention the neonazi presence at tea bagger events. Okay, well, do you have any evidence or even reason to believe that it wasn't a suicide except for your distaste for that conservative movement?

And really what do have the statistics to do with this?

Originally posted by Darth Jello
I'm not convinced he committed suicide. I think there are political reasons for not categorizing this as a murder (i.e. Danny Casolaro/Inslaw). As for hate crimes, I actually meant the latest 2009 statistics that have been in the news because they are going up. Not to mention the neonazi presence at tea bagger events.

there is a problem with this line of reasoning though, it assumes that in the absence of any evidence we should conclude foul play.

sure, there may be suspicious circumstances, but that doesn't mean there is a murder. Its the same kind of logic that sees the 9-11 Commission Report as evidence of a US government plot to blow up the WTC

Originally posted by Darth Jello
I'm not convinced he committed suicide. I think there are political reasons for not categorizing this as a murder (i.e. Danny Casolaro/Inslaw). As for hate crimes, I actually meant the latest 2009 statistics that have been in the news because they are going up. Not to mention the neonazi presence at tea bagger events.

When you say "neonazi presence at tea bagger events", you loose all credibility, and I automatically place your comment within the conspiracy way of thinking.

to be fair, the white power movement has been highly effective in marketing itself as a conservative alternative. This is most apparent in the immigrant issue, but it certainly exists in the "America for Americans" type attitude.

It wouldn't be a surprise to me at all if there were a presence of neo-nazis at these rallies.

Originally posted by inimalist
there is a problem with this line of reasoning though, it assumes that in the absence of any evidence we should conclude foul play.

sure, there may be suspicious circumstances, but that doesn't mean there is a murder. Its the same kind of logic that sees the 9-11 Commission Report as evidence of a US government plot to blow up the WTC

In this case, it's even worse. There was multiple pieces of evidence to prove that he killed himself.



Well, someone could have gone out of their way to make it seem like he killed himself in an attempt to make it not look like a homocide, but the death would have to be due to the hanging. It'd be really hard to force someone to hang themselves without hurting them just a tad. There'd be bruising, which would be nicely evident of a struggle. There's the witness also saying that he planned suicide just like he did.


So, which is more believable?

That he comitted suicide because:

1. There's clear evidence that he wrote FED on himself. (That it was written from someone looking down on his chest/belly...more likely him than someone else. They could have shown that it clearly came from his right hand, based on the markings and "strokes" taken to form the letters.)
2. The loose fitting ropes.

3. The fact that the glasses were tapped on. (Finger prints were probably all over those.)

4. The fact that he could have saved himself just be extending his feet.

5. Lack of close family and close friends.

6. Insurance policies.

7. The "witness" that said he told him he was going to do that.




Now, we have all of those pieces of evidence, and yet, you (DJ, not inimalist) still are doubting. Why?

What evidence do you have from the other direction? You don't even have evidence that there is an increased number of violent acts that are specifically politically motivated.


Why would someone kill another person and try to make it look like a suicide? Don't you think they would want to make it look like, I dunno, a homocide?


Now, it makes much more sense if the person was almost a retard and tried to make his own suicide look like a homocide. Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem, man.

Originally posted by inimalist
to be fair, the white power movement has been highly effective in marketing itself as a conservative alternative. This is most apparent in the immigrant issue, but it certainly exists in the "America for Americans" type attitude.

It wouldn't be a surprise to me at all if there were a presence of neo-nazis at these rallies.

Sure, there maybe an idiot or two in the crowd, but that is not the reason people are there. Now to be truthful, I've never been to a tea bag rally, but I know people who have. To call them all neonazis is just wrong. That would be like calling all liberals anarchists.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
To call them all neonazis is just wrong.

Indeed, good thing no one in this thread has claimed that all, or even most, teabaggers are neonazis.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Indeed, good thing no one in this thread has claimed that all, or even most, teabaggers are neonazis.

Literally? No. Inferred? Yes.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Literally? No. Inferred? Yes.

He didn't imply it either. He said: " a neonazi presence at these events." You yourself admitted that there can be "an idiot or two in the crowd." If neonazis are there then they are there, no consipiracy, no claim that "all of them" are neonazis. Indeed as inimalist pointed out there is good reason to believe that teabagger politics would appeal to neonazis and you then agreed with him.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
He didn't imply it either. He said: " a neonazi presence at these events." You yourself admitted that there can be "an idiot or two in the crowd." If neonazis are there then they are there, no consipiracy, no claim that "all of them" are neonazis. Indeed as inimalist pointed out there is good reason to believe that teabagger politics would appeal to neonazis and you then agreed with him.

Come on now. When a conservative nut job looks at a liberal demonstration, they look for the anarchists. They do this for one reason: they want to discredit the legitimacy of the protest. It also works the other way around.

There is only one reason that neonazis are talked about in connection with tea bag rallies.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Come on now. When a conservative nut job looks at a liberal demonstration, they look for the anarchists. They do this for one reason: they want to discredit the legitimacy of the protest. It also works the other way around.

There is only one reason that neonazis are talked about in connection with tea bag rallies.

I guess we could jsut as inimalist his intentions then?


inimalist, for 2 ounces of Big Bud, tell us what you meant by that...to end this debate.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Come on now. When a conservative nut job looks at a liberal demonstration, they look for the anarchists. They do this for one reason: they want to discredit the legitimacy of the protest. It also works the other way around.

There is only one reason that neonazis are talked about in connection with tea bag rallies.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, what's wrong with anarchists?

Originally posted by ChakraStrings
Whoa, whoa, whoa, what's wrong with anarchists?

Most going by that label are brain-amputated thugs.

edit

More fear mongering from the left.

The liberal media is starting to feel so threatened by the new surge of conservatism in the US.

Originally posted by Bardock42
And....it turns out it was a suicide.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/24/AR2009112401632.html?hpid=moreheadlines

Well Darth Jello =

http://cnx.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/image-10.jpg

Originally posted by ChakraStrings
Whoa, whoa, whoa, what's wrong with anarchists?

Nothing, but a lot of people fear/dislike anarchists for very good/very stupid reasons. Spotting an anarchist with liberals is similar to spotting a nazi with conservatives, largely expected and mostly meaningless. Liberal politics really do appeal to many anarchists and conservative politics really do appeal to many nazis.

Originally posted by ChakraStrings
Whoa, whoa, whoa, what's wrong with anarchists?

Nothing, well at least nothing organized.

Originally posted by KidRock
More fear mongering from the left.

The liberal media is starting to feel so threatened by the new surge of conservatism in the US.



Well Darth Jello =

http://cnx.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/image-10.jpg
I agree, it was totally just the liberal media that caused this and nothing to do with the guy taking steps to ensure people thought he was killed by anti-government activists.

Also it's pretty funny your motivational poster is of a conservative wacko.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I agree, it was totally just the liberal media that caused this and nothing to do with the guy taking steps to ensure people thought he was killed by anti-government activists.

Also it's pretty funny your motivational poster is of a conservative wacko.

It is funny. It's funny because people with the mindset of Darth Jello probably freaked out when the truth came out that this girl did it to herself and tried to blame the Obama supporters.

Now the shoe is on the other foot and we see Darth Jello claiming, "I don't believe he killed himself!" "This cannot be possible!" blah blah blah.

The liberal hypocrisy (and hilarity) ensues.

The OP is also rather hilarious with DJ calling Hannity and Beck morons for "inciting people to violence"

Ooooh, evil tea baggers!

Given the information available when the story broke, homicide was not an unreasonable guess. All we knew was "he died, bound, with 'fed' scrawled on him". Now all these things he DID do to himself, but at the time there was no reason to suspect such a thing.

Yeah, inciting people to violence is a good thing now? Michelle Bachman did that, and it's not good at all.

At least this fellow faked an attack to get money for his family, apparently... the woman did it for no reason but to besmirch Obama.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Given the information available when the story broke, homicide was not an unreasonable guess. All we knew was "he died, bound, with 'fed' scrawled on him". Now all these things he DID do to himself, but at the time there was no reason to suspect such a thing.

Yeah, inciting people to violence is a good thing now? Michelle Bachman did that, and it's not good at all.

At least this fellow faked an attack to get money for his family, apparently... the woman did it for no reason but to besmirch Obama.

Same thing with the crazy Barack woman. Given the information it wouldn't have been wrong to conclude she was attacked. But of course people like DJ assumed that there was no way the peaceful liberal Obama supporters would ever do this.

What exactly did Michelle Bachman say to incite violence? And don't be a fool of course violence isn't a good thing. But if you wanna play little games and jump to wacky conclusions then okay: So the patriots who used violence to free us from British tyranny were bad? How American of you.


Yeah, this guy is a real hero. I would say the woman's cause of attempting to prevent Obama from getting elected was much greater.

No, not really... the truth came out about her story within the day since it seemed very unlikely to police even from a first glance. This went weeks without any new info.

How about her saying that her followers should be armed and ready to resist tax raises? How is that not an incitement to violence? See the great thing about the US is we live in a DEMOCRACY. As in, we shouldn't be using violence to resolve issues, because we have votes to do that.

Using lies to damage someone's reputation is called libel and slander, and is against the law. If that's the cause you're backing, then just get out.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Sure, there maybe an idiot or two in the crowd, but that is not the reason people are there. Now to be truthful, I've never been to a tea bag rally, but I know people who have. To call them all neonazis is just wrong. That would be like calling all liberals anarchists.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I guess we could jsut as inimalist his intentions then?

I've also never been to a teabagger rally, so I really can't say for sure how involved they were. All I meant was there is allegedly a growing white power movement in the states/canada, and they have aligned themselves with some salient conservative issues to gain mainstream support.

I used immigration as an example, because it represents the best success.

For that reason it would not be surprising to see those from the white power movement at conservative political rallies, in the same way that it wouldn't be surprising to see anarchists at a liberal political rally.

Originally posted by dadudemon
inimalist, for 2 ounces of Big Bud, tell us what you meant by that...to end this debate.

pffft, stop frontin'

Originally posted by King Kandy
No, not really... the truth came out about her story within the day since it seemed very unlikely to police even from a first glance. This went weeks without any new info.

How about her saying that her followers should be armed and ready to resist tax raises? How is that not an incitement to violence? See the great thing about the US is we live in a DEMOCRACY. As in, we shouldn't be using violence to resolve issues, because we have votes to do that.

Using lies to damage someone's reputation is called libel and slander, and is against the law. If that's the cause you're backing, then just get out.

You're missing the point.

Conservatives freaked out that this woman was attacked by Obama supporters..Liberals laughed and thought, "This couldn't and wouldn't happen!"

Liberals now freak out thinking Hannity, Beck and the Republicans are pressuring the tea baggers to use violence against Liberals..even going as far as to believe that these acts of violence are actually being played out.

Even when the truth comes out, they refuse to believe it.

It's just hilarious and sad.

And there is nothing wrong with using violence against tyranny, this country was created based on that.

It's a crazy stance isnt it? Almost as crazy as believing it's okay for someone to kill themselves and frame another for murder as long as it's for money.

Maybe that suicidal liberal should have..got a job.

It is no fantasy to think they are pressing for violence when Michelle Bachman actually said that her supporters should be arming themselves against Obama for his tax policy. And besides that, when did I ever say that I thought it was because of pundits, or that the suicide story is false? Only one person in the whole thread implied that, you just use the label of "liberals" to act like everyone else on this forum is likewise invalid.

Yeah, there is something wrong with using violence against tyranny... the country was created with something called VOTING specifically to AVOID that problem, by ensuring that the government followed the will of the people. And that's what happened with Obama... just because conservatives have been bitching about him, doesn't change the fact that the majority of americans preferred him to other candidates and voted accordingly. Which is likely what will happen in 2012 as well.

Ehr... he DID have a job. Or did you miss the whole "US census worker" thing that happened to be the whole POINT of the thread? As I understand it, he wanted to kill himself because he was depressed, I guess. But, he wanted to provide for his family w/ life insurance policies, which could only be claimed in case of murder. It was the murder part that was money based (and it wasn't money for himself that he wanted), not the suicide part. Which IMO is a better motive than wanting to lie to defame someone.

Originally posted by King Kandy
you just use the label of "liberals" to act like everyone else on this forum is likewise invalid.


Why is it wrong of me to classify all liberals as holding this belief but it's okay for you and the liberals to stereotype all the teabaggers as violent, racist hate mongers?

Originally posted by King Kandy

Yeah, there is something wrong with using violence against tyranny... the country was created with something called VOTING specifically to AVOID that problem, by ensuring that the government followed the will of the people. And that's what happened with Obama... just because conservatives have been bitching about him, doesn't change the fact that the majority of americans preferred him to other candidates and voted accordingly. Which is likely what will happen in 2012 as well.


What is wrong with using violence against tyranny?

And no this country was not created by voting, it was created through violence.

It was created by this little thing called the Revolutionary WAR. Last I checked people were lining up and shooting each other, not lining up to vote the British out of North America.

Remember how we were all so overtaxed and overburdened that people had no choice but to resort to violence? Tea Act? Stamp Act? Ring any bells?

Originally posted by King Kandy

Which is likely what will happen in 2012 as well.


Doubtful, seeing how poorly the Democrats have fared in the past months elections and how grim their outlook is next year.


Originally posted by King Kandy
I
Ehr... he DID have a job. Or did you miss the whole "US census worker" thing that happened to be the whole POINT of the thread? As I understand it, he wanted to kill himself because he was depressed, I guess. But, he wanted to provide for his family w/ life insurance policies, which could only be claimed in case of murder. It was the murder part that was money based (and it wasn't money for himself that he wanted), not the suicide part. Which IMO is a better motive than wanting to lie to defame someone.

Framing someone for murder > defaming a liar politician...well, you have had wackier beliefs in the past.

Originally posted by KidRock
Why is it wrong of me to classify all liberals as holding this belief but it's okay for you and the liberals to stereotype all the teabaggers as violent, racist hate mongers?
OK, now you're just trolling.

Originally posted by KidRock
What is wrong with using violence against tyranny?

And no this country was not created by voting, it was created through violence.

It was created by this little thing called the Revolutionary WAR. Last I checked people were lining up and shooting each other, not lining up to vote the British out of North America.

Remember how we were all so overtaxed and overburdened that people had no choice but to resort to violence? Tea Act? Stamp Act? Ring any bells?
You misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't saying that it was voting that created America, i'm saying when America was created, voting for the highest offices was instituted as a defense against tyranny that avoided violence.

Originally posted by KidRock
Doubtful, seeing how poorly the Democrats have fared in the past months elections and how grim their outlook is next year.
Maybe. Obama himself still has higher approval ratings across the board than Bush did and i haven't seen any republican hopefuls who I really think can go head to head with him yet. Maybe they'll show up later, as it's quite early in the game. People don't tend to cut presidents off after one term, it happens much more rarely so I really doubt Obama will lose his second term. But it's just speculation at this point.

Originally posted by KidRock
Framing someone for murder > defaming a liar politician...well, you have had wackier beliefs in the past.
I'm sure I have, if you rephrase it like that. This is what I would say:

Framing a group to provide for your family>Framing a group for no reason other than to slander that group.

Originally posted by King Kandy
OK, now you're just trolling.


Sorry you cannot handle the truth.

Originally posted by King Kandy

You misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't saying that it was voting that created America, i'm saying when America was created, voting for the highest offices was instituted as a defense against tyranny that avoided violence.



And how was America created?

Through war and violence.

Why was there war and violence?

Because of oppressive taxes and a financial burden, the same thing you currently support.

There have been plenty of democratic governments that have become tyrannical while still keeping up the charade of having an actual democracy.

Originally posted by King Kandy


Maybe. Obama himself still has higher approval ratings across the board than Bush did and i haven't seen any republican hopefuls who I really think can go head to head with him yet. Maybe they'll show up later, as it's quite early in the game. People don't tend to cut presidents off after one term, it happens much more rarely so I really doubt Obama will lose his second term. But it's just speculation at this point.



Obama does not have the aura he had during his presidential campaign. This is evidence by how little people cared about his support for Corzine. Every politician in the country is full of shit, people are just realizing now Obama is no different.

Originally posted by King Kandy

I'm sure I have, if you rephrase it like that. This is what I would say:

Framing a group to provide for your family>Framing a group for no reason other than to slander that group.

So putting someone away for life for murder isn't as bad as slandering the supporters of some shitbag politician?

One group gets sent to jail for life, the other gets bad names thrown at them..I wonder whats worse.

Originally posted by KidRock
Remember how we were all so overtaxed and overburdened that people had no choice but to resort to violence? Tea Act? Stamp Act? Ring any bells?

Isn't US history required in US schools?

The revolution immediately followed the lowering of taxes in the colonies. They weren't fighting against taxation, they were fighting against a government in which they had no say. America still has voting, unless that is taken away you can't cite the Revolution as justification for killing tax collectors.

Originally posted by KidRock
And how was America created?

Through war and violence.

Why was there war and violence?

Because of oppressive taxes and a financial burden, the same thing you currently support.

There have been plenty of democratic governments that have become tyrannical while still keeping up the charade of having an actual democracy.
The charade of democracy? Sorry buddy but it was the will of the people that Obama got elected and even if you hate him that fact isn't going to change. People prefer Obama to the republicans last election and he was elected by a far greater margin that say, Bush in 2000.

Originally posted by KidRock
So putting someone away for life for murder isn't as bad as slandering the supporters of some shitbag politician?

One group gets sent to jail for life, the other gets bad names thrown at them..I wonder whats worse.
Er, nobody went to jail to life in this case. And the Obama supporters were being framed for assault/hate crimes, I don't see how that is just "bad names", in both cases a serious allegation was just being passed on an amorphous "group", neither of which could have resulted in anything due to no specific people being involved.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Isn't US history required in US schools?

The revolution immediately followed the lowering of taxes in the colonies. They weren't fighting against taxation, they were fighting against a government in which they had no say. America still has voting, unless that is taken away you can't cite the Revolution as justification for killing tax collectors.
Not to mention that the colonies had already gotten the Stamp Act repealed long before the revolution.

Wow, I take a break for a week and somebody is comparing me to that ***** who pulled a Morton Downey Jr. on Obama, huh? Like the US government doesn't have a history of false rulings/false information regarding homicides for political reasons...hmm, Inslaw (as i've stated before), Black Panthers, JFK, Geronimo Pratt, the people Erik Prince allegedly murdered that aren't being investigated, J. Edgar Hoover pressuring MLK to commit suicide, the Haymarket riot, the MLK assassination,...do I really need to go on?

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Wow, I take a break for a week and somebody is comparing me to that ***** who pulled a Morton Downey Jr. on Obama, huh? Like the US government doesn't have a history of false rulings/false information regarding homicides for political reasons...hmm, Inslaw (as i've stated before), Black Panthers, JFK, Geronimo Pratt, the people Erik Prince allegedly murdered that aren't being investigated, J. Edgar Hoover pressuring MLK to commit suicide, the Haymarket riot, the MLK assassination,...do I really need to go on?

Sounds like conspiracy theories to me.

Or conspiracy facts

piufds