What is the year 2012 Mayan prophecy?

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



ushomefree
The ancient Mayans, based on star charting, prophesied that December 21, 2012 would be the end of the world (or at least some form of universal catastrophe). Meso-American star charting started around 680 B.C. by the Olmec civilization who were recording astrological patterns in the sky and eventually shared this information with the Mayans. The Mayans had a long history of tracking the winter solstice (probably for planting crops) and creating calendars (at least 17 that we know of). At some point, they developed the belief that our sun is a god and that the Milky Way, called the “Sacred Tree,” was a gateway to the afterlife. After learning from the Olmecs, they began keeping records of the stars’ patterns of movement and continued to do so for the next 200-300 years. The Mayans then developed their own calendar (The Long Count) ca. 355 B.C. They were able to use their observations and mathematical prowess to calculate the future movements of stars across the sky. The result was that the Mayans discovered the effect of the earth’s wobbling as it spins on its axis. This wobbling rotation causes the stars’ patterns of movement to drift gradually in the sky (called “precession”) in a 5,125-year cycle. The Mayans also discovered that once every cycle the dark band at the center of the Milky Way (called the Galactic Equator) intersects with the Elliptical (the plane of the sun’s movement across the sky).

During that year, the sun reaches its solstice (a brief moment when the sun’s position in the sky is at its greatest angular distance on the other side of the equatorial plane from the observer) on December 21 for the Northern Hemisphere and June 21 for the Southern Hemisphere. That year, the solstice occurs at the moment of the conjunction of the Galactic Equator with the Milky Way. The year this occurs (in relation to our Gregorian calendar) is A.D. 2012, and happened last on August 11, 3114 B.C. With Mayan mythology teaching that our sun is a god and the Milky Way is the gateway to life and death, the Mayans concluded that this intersection in the past must have been the moment of creation. Mayan hieroglyphs seem to indicate that they believed the next intersection in 2012 would be some sort of end and a new beginning of a cycle. The Mayans also believed that the blood of human sacrifices was what powered the sun and gave it life.

All the so-called “Mayan prophecies of 2012” are nothing more than wildly speculative extrapolations, which are based on the yet uncertain interpretations by scholars of Mayan hieroglyphs. However, the truth is that apart from the astrological convergence, there is little indication that the Mayans prophesied anything specific regarding the events of this distant future. The Mayans were not prophets; they were not even able to predict their own cultural extinction. They were great mathematicians and accomplished sky watchers, but they were also a brutally violent tribal people with a primitive understanding of natural phenomena, subscribing to archaic beliefs and the barbaric practices of blood-letting and human sacrifice.

There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that would present December 21, 2012, as the end of the world. While that date is no less valid for an end-times event than any other future date, the Bible nowhere presents the astronomical phenomena the Mayans pointed to as a sign of the end times. It would seem very inconsistent of God to allow the Mayans to discover such an amazing truth while keeping the many Old Testament prophets ignorant of the timing of the events. In summary, there is absolutely no biblical evidence that the 2012 Mayan prophecy / prediction of doomsday is in any sense valid or probable.

Accepting the Mayan 2012 prophecy logically requires acceptance of the following theories: our sun is a god; the sun is powered by the blood of human sacrifice; the creation moment occurred at 3114 B.C. (despite all evidence that it happened much earlier); and the visual alignment of stars has some significance for everyday human life. Like every other false religion, the Mayan religion sought to elevate to the point of worship that which was created in place of the Creator Himself. The Bible tells us about such false worshipers: “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator” (Romans 1:25), and “since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities – His eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse” (Romans 1:20). To accept the Mayan 2012 prophecy also denies the clear biblical teaching about the end of the world, because Jesus told us “…of that day and hour no one knows, no, not the angels in Heaven, nor the Son, but the Father” (Mark 13:32).

Symmetric Chaos
Oh, well so long as there is no Biblical evidence I feel much safer.

Shakyamunison
No one can see into the future. All prophesies are false.

Mandrag Ganon
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No one can see into the future. All prophesies are false.

Yes, no human... We can see into the past though...

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Mandrag Ganon
Yes, no human... We can see into the past though...

Really? I don't think we can see into the past. We can remember something, but we are just replaying stored patterns in our brain. We can also look at evidence that is existing now, but seeing into the past is completely different.

Mandrag Ganon
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Really? I don't think we can see into the past. We can remember something, but we are just replaying stored patterns in our brain. We can also look at evidence that is existing now, but seeing into the past is completely different.

You can scientificly see into the past. For example, if you went X lightyears away from earth (I don't know the exact math) and looked back with a massively powerful microscope you would see me sitting here typing this very thing even though it is truly years after I typed this.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Mandrag Ganon
You can scientificly see into the past. For example, if you went X lightyears away from earth (I don't know the exact math) and looked back with a massively powerful microscope you would see me sitting here typing this very thing even though it is truly years after I typed this.
When you look into space you see light that left it's star millions of years ago, but you are seeing that ancient light now. You are not really seeing into the past.

Mandrag Ganon
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
When you look into space you see light that left it's star millions of years ago, but you are seeing that ancient light now. You are not really seeing into the past.

True, but you are still seeing events that happened years previously.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Mandrag Ganon
True, but you are still seeing events that happened years previously.

Just like watching a movie. wink

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No one can see into the future. All prophesies are false.

We can still make reasonable assumptions about the future.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
We can still make reasonable assumptions about the future.

That is true, and we can ever, predict events in controlled settings, but we all know that is completely different. wink

King Kandy
What is this thread supposed to prove? That christians shouldn't believe in 2012? Because it certainly offers no real contradiction other than "the bible doesn't say so".

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by King Kandy
What is this thread supposed to prove? That christians shouldn't believe in 2012? Because it certainly offers no real contradiction other than "the bible doesn't say so".

Ya, but we are quickly tuning it into a "can we look into the future" thread. laughing

Mandrag Ganon
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is true, and we can ever, predict events in controlled settings, but we all know that is completely different. wink

True. smile

Digi
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
We can still make reasonable assumptions about the future.

reasonable assumptions aren't prophecies. I'll cosign Shakya on his earlier statement.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Mandrag Ganon
True. smile

Oh, don't give up already. laughing out loud

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Digi
reasonable assumptions aren't prophecies. I'll cosign Shakya on his earlier statement.

True. But an unreasonable assumption can still turn out to be true, it should just happen with less regularity. A prophecy isn't automatically untrue but most are vague enough to be meaningless anyway.

Mandrag Ganon
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Oh, don't give up already. laughing out loud

What? I can't argue with that. I'm not going to say that prophecies absolutely can't exist, but I also can't prove that they aboslutely do. Personal belief is irrelevent in such arguments.

Originally posted by King Kandy
What is this thread supposed to prove? That christians shouldn't believe in 2012? Because it certainly offers no real contradiction other than "the bible doesn't say so".

It's a thread stating a belief as absolute fact using a book that may or may not be the absolute truth as the only evidence for his belief. Whether he is right or wrong in what he says is irrelevent, he has given no undenyable proof for his belief as to why 2012 will not be the end of the world... Infact the only proof is given is the easiest to deny since he is using a book that, once again, may or may not be the absolute truth.

Digi
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
True. But an unreasonable assumption can still turn out to be true, it should just happen with less regularity. A prophecy isn't automatically untrue but most are vague enough to be meaningless anyway.

Well, sure, we'd need to qualify it. A prophecy might come true, but it's by chance, not because of some prophetic foresight. But prophecies aren't true in that they aren't actual prophecy, they're blind guesses.

Mandrag Ganon
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
True. But an unreasonable assumption can still turn out to be true, it should just happen with less regularity. A prophecy isn't automatically untrue but most are vague enough to be meaningless anyway.

Which is why events Nostradamus prophecied continue to happen time and time again.

Originally posted by Digi
Well, sure, we'd need to qualify it. A prophecy might come true, but it's by chance, not because of some prophetic foresight. But prophecies aren't true in that they aren't actual prophecy, they're blind guesses.

I'd say educated guesses. Most prophecies are worded in ways that they will happen eventually, and probably several times afterward. Not because of any kind of devine insite, but because odds favored an event like that happening in the infinite span of the future.

inimalist
Originally posted by Digi
A prophecy might come true, but it's by chance, not because of some prophetic foresight.

proving the negative now, are we?

Prophets aren't real, what they predict doesn't come true. But if it does...

wink

also, I don't think prophets ever claimed to be the cause of such events

Digi
Originally posted by inimalist
proving the negative now, are we?

Prophets aren't real, what they predict doesn't come true. But if it does...

wink

also, I don't think prophets ever claimed to be the cause of such events

laughing out loud quiet you. you know we're in agreement, but choose to play the semantic devil's advocate.

miffed

inimalist
nitpicking is my day job

Shakyamunison
There is also the element of Post-Diction that must be taken into consideration when determining the validity of prophecy.

jinXed by JaNx
I'm excited to see what the next Doomsday date will be after 2012 comes and goes.

siriuswriter
prophecies are like horoscopes. if you're determined enough, you can twist them around to mean anything.

it's very nice that the mayan had such a developed astrology system and mathematic system. but nobody should get all 'y2k' about december 21, 2012. remember how silly those people ended up feeling... they're probably still eating those canned goods.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by siriuswriter
prophecies are like horoscopes. if you're determined enough, you can twist them around to mean anything.

it's very nice that the mayan had such a developed astrology system and mathematic system. but nobody should get all 'y2k' about december 21, 2012. remember how silly those people ended up feeling... they're probably still eating those canned goods.

The Mayan's didn't have astrology at all, but they were great astronomers.

jaden101
Originally posted by siriuswriter
prophecies are like horoscopes. if you're determined enough, you can twist them around to mean anything.



Very good point. I had the same discussion with Nuclear Winter in the conspiracy forum when he took umbridge to the fact that deep within one of his massively long posts he used a Nostradamus prediction to try and say that sometime before the end of this decade a huge disaster was going to occur but he actually deliberately missed out the line from the prediction that gave a specific date being in 1999.

He continually claimed that it didn't mean 1999 when it literally translated from French into "the 7th month of the year 1999".

He simply wouldn't back down on the point. Making all his other postings seem equally as tainted.

siriuswriter
Originally posted by jaden101
Very good point. I had the same discussion with Nuclear Winter in the conspiracy forum when he took umbridge to the fact that deep within one of his massively long posts he used a Nostradamus prediction to try and say that sometime before the end of this decade a huge disaster was going to occur but he actually deliberately missed out the line from the prediction that gave a specific date being in 1999.

He continually claimed that it didn't mean 1999 when it literally translated from French into "the 7th month of the year 1999".

He simply wouldn't back down on the point. Making all his other postings seem equally as tainted.

exactly. i watched the much-played 'nostradamus effect' on the history channel the other day, and the quatrains they attributed to both 9/11 and 'the end of the world' i saw could also be describing, respectively, the black plague and hurricane katrina

however, since people want to know the answers to the great mysteries - just like people want to know when that tall dark handsome stranger is going to appear, they'll use whatever material they can grasp at to point to the wanted meaning.

i suppose this post will make me unpopular with any conspiracy theorists. ah, well. i'll mourn and move on.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.