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FFX Sin vs LOK Elder God. Neutral battlezone that is big enough for the both of them. Who takes it home?!

First I lol'd... Then I lol'd summoar.

K, what's EG gonna do? Impotently wiggle it's slow ass tentacles at Sin?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
First I lol'd... Then I lol'd summoar.

K, what's EG gonna do? Impotently wiggle it's slow ass tentacles at Sin?

If one tentacle breaches an orifice then Sin has been officially raped and no one can come back from a tentacle raping. For example, have you seen Q'Anilia around lately?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
First I lol'd... Then I lol'd summoar.

K, what's EG gonna do? Impotently wiggle it's slow ass tentacles at Sin?

EG is a planet-sized being

A planet sized being that lost to a mediochrely powerful character.

Size =/= power.

Not my saying...someone else's.

So you're saying Kain isn't powerful?

Compared to Sin? Kain's got nothing.

apart from the perfect tools for fighting the E.G, sin prob cannot see nor touch the EG who is planetary/continental in size and could smother it.

Unless sin is allowed to see/touch the Elder AND has a continental sized powerful attack then its not going to win thats for sure even if the E.G cannot damage Sin.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
If one tentacle breaches an orifice then Sin has been officially raped and no one can come back from a tentacle raping. For example, have you seen Q'Anilia around lately?

Good point. Fallacious, but good

Originally posted by iChaos
Not my saying...someone else's.

So you're saying Kain isn't powerful?

He said he was mediocre, which is true. He's powerful in Nosgoth and if compared to a number of game universes, but looking at the grand picture will have you realize that he is not really powerful. He just has a number of handy abilities that increase his efficiency above the level of his powers, allowing him to take on characters that might from an objective perspective be more powerful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q66LW_ASPY

Attack that can be seen from space> Elder God

Originally posted by Rapidash
He just has a number of handy abilities that increase his efficiency above the level of his powers, allowing him to take on characters that might from an narrow minded and ignorant perspective be more powerful.

Originally posted by Nephthys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q66LW_ASPY

Attack that can be seen from space> Elder God

Not really it was just large, as Screampaste said:


Originally posted by ScreamPaste


Size =/= power.


And furthermore it was extremely slow, it took him ages to create that orb in front of him and fire it loose, EG isnt a speedster but he would smother the whale across its whole body and squeeze long before it could start such a manouver, especially with it needing to have its mouth open and faceing the direction of fireing, furthermore whats he going to aim at? thin air? has that orb destroyed non physical/multi dimenstional matter before? or spirit?

EG constantly multiplies the size of his own body across his whole body while smothering Sin and filling every explosed hole on his body from his anus to his mouth until it dies.

EG tries to smother him and he'll be on the receiving end of a disintegrating forcefield. Giving Sin enough time to use his physics-breaking Beamthing. Or better yet his Overdrive 'Youlosethegame'.

Edit: And Sin has a pocket dimension in his stomach, so we know he can affect dimension stuff.

Sin easily imo.

If even BT is only saying EG can "Smother" Sin then that says it all. I just don't think intense cuddling is going to kill Sin. Just my opinion ;p

Originally posted by Nephthys
EG tries to smother him and he'll be on the receiving end of a disintegrating forcefield. Giving Sin enough time to use his physics-breaking Beamthing. Or better yet his Overdrive 'Youlosethegame'.

Edit: And Sin has a pocket dimension in his stomach, so we know he can affect dimension stuff.

he has a pocket dimension in his stomach so therefore he can strike dimenstional/spiritual enttiies? lolz

Elder God is enormous, his sheer size would crush Sin unless he has some incredible strength/durabiltiy feats....


Either way Sin still has no way of killing and prob not even touching EG so neither win.

No, when the Airship zaps off one of Sin's arms, some of the contained energy of Sin is released and forms a portal to the pocket dimension in his stomach. Ergo, the energy Sin has can affect multi-dimensional space, ergo he can affect things in extra-dimensions, ergo he blows the Elder Gods fawking head off (or at least the eye Kain killed)



You're clearly trying to have your cake and eat it too. How can EG be intangible to all of Sin's attacks and yet still be able to touch him? Plus I've already pointed out that Sin not only has a forcefield, but that his forcefield has demonstrated that it can disintegrate everything that touches it. If EG does try to smother him, he'll get disintegrated.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, when the Airship zaps off one of Sin's arms, some of the contained energy of Sin is released and forms a portal to the pocket dimension in his stomach. Ergo, the energy Sin has can affect multi-dimensional space, ergo he can affect things in extra-dimensions, ergo he blows the Elder Gods fawking head off (or at least the eye Kain killed)



You're clearly trying to have your cake and eat it too. How can EG be intangible to all of Sin's attacks and yet still be able to touch him? Plus I've already pointed out that Sin not only has a forcefield, but that his forcefield has demonstrated that it can disintegrate everything that touches it. If EG does try to smother him, he'll get disintegrated.

The aireship just zaps off one of sins arms? I assume this airship has some powerful feats with its weapons otherwise...

No, the energy within sin lanced out and did what damage exactly? this isnt Sin himself chooseing to fire, and we still dont know if Sin can see spirits or affect them, and the little piece Sin damages means nothing to the EG who can multiply and re-heal his body.


Because thats how the EG works, the EG can touch the physical plane himself, e.g. rock, earth and Kain yet its also multi-dimentional and spiritual and cannot be seen/touched by the typical entity.

Depends, by "everything that touches it" what has actually touched it? spiritual matter? anything worth noteing? I doubt something that takes the weight of the planets mantle that it digs under, all that pressure must make it damn hard to damage.

EG is nonething but a squid? With eyes and tentacles. He couldn't even "crush" Kain. Funny how he could crush Sin, but couldn't crush Kain at the end of Defiance.

Originally posted by Burning thought


You seriously think that telekinesis, transforming into mist or bats, shapeshifting, teleporting and taking souls is the general definition of being powerful? With the exception of his barely useful time ability and his vague shielding ability, Kain's powers are not powerful.

Most of them are basic abilities from more than one gaming universe.

The only reason Kain wins a battle, is because his powers in combination make Kain powerful. His powers by themselves are not powerful, merely useful.

Many of the opponents he can fight and defeat is very possibly more powerful than him in terms of sheer power.

Don't flaunt the word ignorant around, it will do you more harm than good, given how biased you are on this matter. I'm not saying Kain is weak, so no need to defend him on that matter. In fact, I'm giving him credit for being so dangerous with such second rate abilities.

Well firstly Tidus and the gang pounded on it to weaken it, then the airship does some random lightning cannon attack.



Well turns out it didn't happen like I said, Tidus and the gang beat up Sin face to face until it opened a portal of its own free will. But this still shows that Sin's magic/energy has the power to affect dimensions, meaning that his attacks can go through and affect stuff in other dimensions.

And wtf? Kain beat the EG just by attacking its eye. Sin will just keep curbstomping EG until it hits that. And when did he heal himself and how do you think this will work against an attack that vaporises rock etc instantaneously so that for several seconds water doesn't even feel gravity (clearly warping physics in a surrounding area) and then cuasing explosions that can be seen from space?



If it can touch physical matter it can be affected by physical matter, as you well know, for if not then your claims of him being 'super durable' for dealing with the pressure of living underground. Wiki has this to say on the matter - 'Seeing as how he feeds on souls, destroy Planar portals & edifices it is safe to say that he inhabits both the Material realm & the Spectral realm like Melchiah or Dumah.' Melchiah was killed by a grinder and Dumah by a fire.



Metal. And see above.

edit: Plus the field took the blast of that giant lightning canon.

Originally posted by Burning thought
apart from the perfect tools for fighting the E.G, sin prob cannot see nor touch the EG who is planetary/continental in size and could smother it.

Unless sin is allowed to see/touch the Elder AND has a continental sized powerful attack then its not going to win thats for sure even if the E.G cannot damage Sin.

Of course he is. I stated that they were fighting on neutral territory to support both of their sizes.

Originally posted by Rapidash
Good point. Fallacious, but good



Yeah I try to be random and cute at times. Honestly though, I miss my little Q-Ball.

sin wins unless the elder god can get past his shield which i doubt.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well firstly Tidus and the gang pounded on it to weaken it, then the airship does some random lightning cannon attack.



Well turns out it didn't happen like I said, Tidus and the gang beat up Sin face to face until it opened a portal of its own free will. But this still shows that Sin's magic/energy has the power to affect dimensions, meaning that his attacks can go through and affect stuff in other dimensions.

And wtf? Kain beat the EG just by attacking its eye. Sin will just keep curbstomping EG until it hits that. And when did he heal himself and how do you think this will work against an attack that vaporises rock etc instantaneously so that for several seconds water doesn't even feel gravity (clearly warping physics in a surrounding area) and then cuasing explosions that can be seen from space?



If it can touch physical matter it can be affected by physical matter, as you well know, for if not then your claims of him being 'super durable' for dealing with the pressure of living underground. Wiki has this to say on the matter - 'Seeing as how he feeds on souls, destroy Planar portals & edifices it is safe to say that he inhabits both the Material realm & the Spectral realm like Melchiah or Dumah.' Melchiah was killed by a grinder and Dumah by a fire.



Metal. And see above.

edit: Plus the field took the blast of that giant lightning canon.

No it doesnt ,him opening a portal unless he can maintain it into the Elder Gods excistence and attack him spiritually will not help him.

Kain used the Soul reaver,its the perfect weapon for attacking the EG because it harms his very essence, unlike Sins powers which look compeltly physical. And this is Sin vs the whole EG, Kain fought a part.

False, your talking in real life, this is a dimentional entity who exists on several planes yet physical entities cannot seem to hit back at him, or sense or touch him in any way without Kains sight, he wouldnt have either.

Originally posted by Rapidash
You seriously think that telekinesis, transforming into mist or bats, shapeshifting, teleporting and taking souls is the general definition of being powerful? With the exception of his barely useful time ability and his vague shielding ability, Kain's powers are not powerful.

Most of them are basic abilities from more than one gaming universe.

The only reason Kain wins a battle, is because his powers in combination make Kain powerful. His powers by themselves are not powerful, merely useful.

Many of the opponents he can fight and defeat is very possibly more powerful than him in terms of sheer power.

Don't flaunt the word ignorant around, it will do you more harm than good, given how biased you are on this matter. I'm not saying Kain is weak, so no need to defend him on that matter. In fact, I'm giving him credit for being so dangerous with such second rate abilities.

Varietywise he is powerful, whats your defintion of power? size, amount of physical damage? all worthless if your soul is ripped out really. Power comes in many forms and Kains is not a flashy AOE.

Not powerful? ofc they are, stopping time, taking souls...all are powerful, taking the abilities of blood you drink useing TK, all powerful in the right hands. Who are you comparing him to say hes medicore?

I am very objective, I say nothing bias, I simply know Kain and read up on his opponents.

Originally posted by iChaos
EG is nonething but a squid? With eyes and tentacles. He couldn't even "crush" Kain. Funny how he could crush Sin, but couldn't crush Kain at the end of Defiance.

Kain has the right tools and speed to evade being crushed, Sin does not seem to have that baseing it on that video and my own far less than vivid memory of playing of FF10.

So Kain has the right tools to dodge a PLANET-SIZED being? Lol.

no he has the right tools to strike the Elder God and damage it spiritually it would seem and at the same time, escape the part hf fought which was during game play only about 1 large eye and 3 tentacles.

Although I cant see the EG using only 3 tentacles against something as large as Sin, or if it was going all out. It has no reason to hold back its full might either as it did against Kain.

Originally posted by iChaos
So Kain has the right tools to dodge a PLANET-SIZED being? Lol.

EG is not literally planet-sized.

Sin wins, you wanna know why??? 1 word...Anima.

Query: How will Elder God get past Sin's force-field? That took Al Bhed tech to neutralise, something EG has not shown to replicate.

Through spirit means, EG does not exist on the same plane as the shield, yet he has shown to be able to strike at things from another plane. So hell crush Sin, with the shield intact.

Well, as per thread stipulations, there's a field big enough for both of them, so EG has to be all there for the fight. And aboviously he has to be able to be touched in the fight, otherwise it's like putting Master Chief up against a regular boxer, unfair.

"sigh" stripulations against unique aspects of an entity so it cannot win are pointless if you want to see who would win out of the two.

But fine, if thats the case then perhaps none of them can win if this forcefield of Sins has shown to be able to take constant damage from something of EG size...which I very much doubt.

Sin cannot do anything to EG, its too vast and can regen and multiply its mass almost instantly. Even if Sin blasted a huge chunk out of the EG with his slow ass blast, by the time hes finished the EG would have multiplied the rest of his body and the damage would be akin to a splinter in your finger.

You all do realise that Sin is formed from "spiritual means," right?

No, what diffrence does that make may I ask? its formed "from" spiritual means...so..

Kain is also formed from spiritual means, hes not a spirit nor could he percieve or hit Elder God before Raziel healing him.

Originally posted by Burning thought
"sigh" stripulations against unique aspects of an entity so it cannot win are pointless if you want to see who would win out of the two.



Really now? These "stripulations" weren't made against EG at all. For one didn't know he was "planet size". I never paid any attention to him when I played the games because I found him boring. I thought he was some normal monster sized green tentacle douche underground and I came in with the belieft that Sin was bigger so yeah, no one is trying set him up for failure.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Really now? These "stripulations" weren't made against EG at all. For one didn't know he was "planet size". I never paid any attention to him when I played the games because I found him boring. I thought he was some normal monster sized green tentacle douche underground and I came in with the belieft that Sin was bigger so yeah, no one is trying set him up for failure.


Regardless, the fact his multi dimenstional is part of what he is, if you take that from him yet do not take anything from Sin then its sort of unfair dont you think?

But anyway, neither win if Sins shield has shown to take what EG can bring to the table, which is simply his physical size which will get bigger, so EG would eventually win from that stand point but nobody would win if they remain at their base values.

Couldn't EG simply make Sin die?

I dont know, logically he probably could because he is the controller of he wheel of fate, death/life/rebirth etc but one could argue that Sin is not part of the LOK wheel of fate and so would not be susceptible. Another argument is ofc its only logical, EG has not just made someone keel over and die before afai remember.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I dont know, logically he probably could because he is the controller of he wheel of fate, death/life/rebirth etc but one could argue that Sin is not part of the LOK wheel of fate and so would not be susceptible. Another argument is ofc its only logical, EG has not just made someone keel over and die before afai remember.

Yeah like how he made Kain die...

Interesting, make the dead die......

Well how does he normally make people die?

I assume he doesn't just stop their hearts from beating.

As I said above hes not done it before, but technically Kain is dead in most ways you would assume to think someone is dead, hell hes not even got a heart and the only part of him that "may" be touchable is his soul which is what I would assume Elder God would use considering thats what it eats and uses to spin new life.

now Kains soul is untouchable by the EG, all vampires are. He needs agents like wraiths (raziel) to process the soul for them but even then Kain seems untouchable as the writer of the series claims the only reason Kain is alive because of his "nature as the scion of balance.

I think physical thrashing is Elder Gods best bet of winning and expanding until its mass is ridiculously large. If thats not enough then nobody wins this match, Sin is too slow and not powerful enough to cause enough damage to EG size even if he is allowed to hit him.

So it's a power he has never displayed?

Nuff said imo.

Sounds like it's being made up to me

Oh lawd.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
So it's a power he has never displayed?

Nuff said imo.

Sounds like it's being made up to me

Well yeah. you know its what I was discussing with AG so its not been "made up" its just being discussed as a possibility. Read previous posts please.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Sin is not powerful.

oxymoron

How?

Sin- his destructive feats strike fear throughout spira, and is a superpowerful being

not powerful- direct opposite of Sin

oxymoron - two contradictory terms

yes but you forgot half the sentence, the rest of my sentence being my point and argument. The rest of the sentence eliminates the oxymoron.....

If I was talking on a base term and directly claiming Sin was not powerful in general then it will not be an oxymoron, more an opinion, possibly correct depending on what or who I am comparing it to.

Hehe. It's all a matter of perspective. Sin can either be extremely powerful or a harmless ant depending on who you compare Sin to.

Same with every entity.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Same with every entity.

Exactly.

Sin eats the elder god can gets massive gas problems. The Guy has a dimension in his stomach.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Well yeah. you know its what I was discussing with AG so its not been "made up" its just being discussed as a possibility. Read previous posts please.

Yeah, it's made up.

Where's your proof of it's existence?

First show me where I said it the power definitely exists, then I will show my proof.

Originally posted by Burning thought
First show me where I said it the power definitely exists, then I will show my proof.

So you're saying it doesn't exist?

Originally posted by EvilAngel
So you're saying it doesn't exist?

It exists, but it isn't known if it can be used on a still-living being.

I am saying theres no evidence to suggest he has the ability for a fact, I was if you read the posts before your own discussing AG's idea of the EG being able to do this ability and the reasons why I would think he may or may not be able to do it. Never did I say he could definatley do so, I cannot see how you could miss the part in my post after his outlining this.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
It exists, but it isn't known if it can be used on a still-living being.

How can you prove it exists?


So wait. The power to kill someone, might not work on someone living? and it doesn't work on living-dead things?

lol, what???



Originally posted by Burning thought
I am saying theres no evidence to suggest he has the ability for a fact, I was if you read the posts before your own discussing AG's idea of the EG being able to do this ability and the reasons why I would think he may or may not be able to do it. Never did I say he could definatley do so, I cannot see how you could miss the part in my post after his outlining this.

Welcome to my world. There's allot of things i don't know how you don't understand.

Hes talking about a speculation based on the Elder Gods power over the wheel of fate, as he claims himself he is the master of life, death and re-birth and based on speculation, not an actual feat, he may be able to take the life from an entity and recreate it as a different life in birth on a whim.

Fact is hes not shown this, nor has he had any obvious reason to and he makes it clear vampires as immortals are beyond his ability to even absorb into his wheel of fate because their souls exist on even in death as sentient entities (wraiths).

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Welcome to my world. There's allot of things i don't know how you don't understand.

Or my understanding of those instances are beyond your understanding of my perception. Don't get annoyed or irritated and try and make a jibe because of your own mistake

Originally posted by EvilAngel
How can you prove it exists?


So wait. The power to kill someone, might not work on someone living? and it doesn't work on living-dead things?

lol, what???





Welcome to my world. There's allot of things i don't know how you don't understand.

I think there's been a misunderstanding here somewhere. The EG runs the "wheel"/cycle of death, life, and rebirth. It's simply unknown if EG can place a still-living being on this "wheel".

So you think he might be able to force someone to die, because he controls "the wheel of fate"

Sure.... that sounds completely unfounded.


To me atleast, he's boasting and it's obvious. So where this idea came from he could kill anyone i have no clue. Since it has absolutely no backing of any sort. I really struggle to see where you think it's going.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Or my understanding of those instances are beyond your understanding of my perception. Don't get annoyed or irritated and try and make a jibe because of your own mistake

Can go both ways. Your perspective is not any more right than hers, no matter how certain you are on yourself.

Originally posted by Burning thought

Or my understanding of those instances are beyond your understanding of my perception. Don't get annoyed or irritated and try and make a jibe because of your own mistake

Predictable response.

Could you self inflate your ego a little more, the kids can't use it as a bouncy castle yet -.-'

Originally posted by EvilAngel
So you think he might be able to force someone to die, because he controls "the wheel of fate"

Sure.... that sounds completely unfounded.


To me atleast, he's boasting and it's obvious. So where this idea came from he could kill anyone i have no clue. Since it has absolutely no backing of any sort. I really struggle to see where you think it's going.

Don't confuse 'the wheel of fate' with 'The Wheel of life, death, and rebirth'. It's all food for thought anyway. However, it is known that EG has power over the deceased.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Don't confuse 'the wheel of fate' with 'The Wheel of life, death, and rebirth'. It's all food for thought anyway. However, it is known that EG has power over the deceased.

Okay, so can i ask what inspires the thought for the leap?

He has control over the dead, just to relate, so do necromancers, but wat makes you think said control also extends to the living?

I just would have thought while they are in their body, they aren't vunerable to EG as they are when they are dead. Hence i ask; do you have any kind of backing at all for such a claim?

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Okay, so can i ask what inspires the thought for the leap?

He has control over the dead, just to relate, so do necromancers, but wat makes you think said control also extends to the living?

I just would have thought while they are in their body, they aren't vunerable to EG as they are when they are dead. Hence i ask; do you have any kind of backing at all for such a claim?

Finally you got it. And no, I don't have anything backing it, since it was all speculation from the beginning. It was just food for thought.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Finally you got it. And no, I don't have anything backing it, since it was all speculation from the beginning. It was just food for thought.

I think you mean; finally i put it into words you understand. All i asked was, it's a power you guys just thought up, not one you can prove he has.

Which it is.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
I think you mean; finally i put it into words you understand. All i asked was, it's a power you guys just thought up, not one you can prove he has.

Which it is.

We didn't just think it up. Given the nature of the Elder God and his powers, it would not be entirely unreasonable to assume that he could do it to a living being. After all, EG controls the "Wheel of life, death, and rebirth"; his powers go beyond mere necromancy.

As you can see, it's different than outright pulling something out the ass. At any rate, I never tried to present it as a fact and neither did BT, I believe.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
We didn't just think it up. Given the nature of the Elder God and his powers, it would not be entirely unreasonable to assume that he could do it to a living being. After all, EG controls the "Wheel of life, death, and rebirth"; his powers go beyond mere necromancy.

As you can see, it's different than outright pulling something out the ass. At any rate, I never tried to present it as a fact and neither did BT, I believe.

The moment you assume something that's never suggested or hinted at, as it wasn't ever shown, it's pulling it out of your ass.

I only questioned it to begin with because you said that's how EG could win.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
The moment you assume something that's never suggested or hinted at, as it wasn't ever shown, it's pulling it out of your ass.

I only questioned it to begin with because you said that's how EG could win.

But it is suggested and hinted at.

And just where did I say that's how EG would win? The word 'could' and a question mark implies uncertainty.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
But it is suggested and hinted at.

And just where did I say that's how EG would win? The word 'could' and a question mark implies uncertainty.

How long are we going to do this?

It is play on words. That's all. It was never suggested or hinted to have ever happened. Isn't that how the whole games versus works. You need feats to back it up and all? Whatever.

Sure, whatever i really couldn't care anymore. I only asked to confirm it wasn't something that has ever actually happened.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
How long are we going to do this?

It is play on words. That's all. It was never suggested or hinted to have ever happened. Isn't that how the whole games versus works. You need feats to back it up and all? Whatever.

Sure, whatever i really couldn't care anymore. I only asked to confirm it wasn't something that has ever actually happened.

So what are you saying then? That EG's powers are simply a play on words?

I can confirm it too: EG has never placed a still-living being on the "Wheel".

That the theory behind that being possible is a play on words.

And seriously stop. This is old now.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
It is play on words. That's all. It was never suggested or hinted to have ever happened. Isn't that how the whole games versus works. You need feats to back it up and all? Whatever

Depends on how serious you take it.

I love debating Warcraft, but because everyone on this forum takes everything so serious, I can't do it to its full potentials. Everyone wants proof of everything, even things that a character by all logic should be able to do, but has not done. Thus' making debating Warcraft fairly boring.

In other words: It's a matter of perspective. I don't expect feats most of the time, simply logic. Most however, you included it seems, want feats, which is nothing less than understandable

Although in the end, if asking me: No, you don't need feats to back it up. Only logic.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
That the theory behind that being possible is a play on words.

And seriously stop. This is old now.

Maybe a little bit, but EG's powers are very real.

Wonderful. When i want to hear about that, rest assure, you are the first person i will come to.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Depends on how serious you take it.

I love debating Warcraft, but because everyone on this forum takes everything so serious, I can't do it to its full potentials. Everyone wants proof of everything, even things that a character by all logic should be able to do, but has not done. Thus' making debating Warcraft fairly boring.

In other words: It's a matter of perspective. I don't expect feats most of the time, simply logic. Most however, you included it seems, want feats, which is nothing less than understandable

Although in the end, if asking me: No, you don't need feats to back it up. Only logic.


I only ask feats when the person i'm talking to is the kind to ask for them. Or i don't trust what they're saying.

More often that not i won't bother. Though i do like to ask for video's whenever possible. They keep me entertained =)

Eh, some peoples logic isn't logical. If you catch my drift. That's all there is to it for me.

I simply don't debate lack of logic. I often give up after one or two posts. One of the reasons why I refrain debates from Burning Thought (No, I will not debate, discuss or even elaborate this for you, Burning Thought)

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I simply don't debate lack of logic. I often give up after one or two posts. One of the reasons why I refrain debates from Burning Thought (No, I will not debate, discuss or even elaborate this for you, Burning Thought)

How about debating that with me?

No

This whole issue of the EG discussion of power is based on someone not reading the post she was replying to, it was just a discussion and as AG put it, "food for thought" nobody ever stated its a definite ability the EG would use or could be capable of. We were using logic to base ideas on, not feats or fact. This forum has problem with logic.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Can go both ways. Your perspective is not any more right than hers, no matter how certain you are on yourself.

I covered this statement and pretty much replicated it with the "or" I put at the beginning of my statement.

Originally posted by Burning thought
This whole issue of the EG discussion of power is based on someone not reading the post she was replying to, it was just a discussion and as AG put it, "food for thought" nobody ever stated its a definite ability the EG would use or could be capable of. We were using logic to base ideas on, not feats or fact. This forum has problem with logic.



I covered this statement and pretty much replicated it with the "or" I put at the beginning of my statement.

Not my fault that's how you took it BT.

Originally posted by Burning thought
hm, I approached it with a sophisticated mentality and maybe overcomplicated it.

I think this would be the answer.

Or something like that anyway

Originally posted by Burning thought
I dont know, logically he probably could because he is the controller of he wheel of fate, death/life/rebirth etc but one could argue that Sin is not part of the LOK wheel of fate and so would not be susceptible. Another argument is ofc its only logical, EG has not just made someone keel over and die before afai remember.

So you took my quote above and came out with the idea that me and AG are inventing powers and stateing them as fact or something?

Originally posted by Burning thought
So you took my quote above and came out with the idea that me and AG are inventing powers and stateing them as fact or something?

Originally posted by Burning thought
hm, I approached it with a sophisticated mentality and maybe overcomplicated it.

Because i never said that.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
So you think he might be able to force someone to die, because he controls "the wheel of fate"

Sure.... that sounds completely unfounded.


To me atleast, he's boasting and it's obvious. So where this idea came from he could kill anyone i have no clue. Since it has absolutely no backing of any sort. I really struggle to see where you think it's going.

So this quote above was not you?
How about this one:

Originally posted by EvilAngel
So it's a power he has never displayed?

Nuff said imo.

Sounds like it's being made up to me

Originally posted by Burning thought
So this quote above was not you?
How about this one:

Careful there, BT. You may confuse him all over again.

Originally posted by Burning thought
So you took my quote above and came out with the idea that me and AG are inventing powers and stateing them as fact or something?

Oh yes, i completed think you guys have no way to support the claim of such a power. And i think your taking wording too literally, yes.

But i never said what i underlined.


Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Careful there, BT. You may confuse him all over again.

I lol'd. Are you trying to provoke me ArtificialGlory?

Originally posted by EvilAngel
I lol'd. Are you trying to provoke me ArtificialGlory?

Not really, no. It did really seem to me that you were confused and jumping at shadows, claiming that things that don't have any actual feats are entirely made up.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Not really, no. It did really seem to me that you were confused and jumping at shadows, claiming that things that don't have any actual feats are entirely made up.

They are lol. Even now it's a theory based on word play which has no backing other than how a person might choose to interpret a phrase.

Is that not correct?

Originally posted by EvilAngel
They are lol. Even now it's a theory based on word play which has no backing other than how a person might choose to interpret a phrase.

Is that not correct?

So are you saying that anything, no matter how logical or how heavily implied, is made up if it doesn't have any actual feats? And for the last time, it's not all word play. It's known that the EG has powers over death and rebirth. BT could probably tell you more about that though.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Careful there, BT. You may confuse him all over again.


She is already confused , it seems she does not know the difference between claiming something as fact or attempting to base an argument on something and simply mildly discussing the possibility of it existing.

Some that does not have a feat does not have to entirely made up when we were simply discussing the possibilities of being the hub of a wheel of life/death/rebirth.

Other possibilities that have come up since I have been thinking on the EG for this argument is that he claims he is pretty much omnipresent at least in the bounds of Nosgoth and its timeline and his actions seem to justify this. So Sin may have to destroy not only the EG in his general area but the EG from all the possible time zones, a bit like Nozmordu.

Sin wins because BT voiced his opinion in this thread. How's that for some faulty logic?

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
So are you saying that anything, no matter how logical or how heavily implied, is made up if it doesn't have any actual feats? And for the last time, it's not all word play. It's known that the EG has powers over death and rebirth. BT could probably tell you more about that though.

Well i was asking that. Is there any other evidence to support such a claim. You couldn't give me any, that's all. Personally if he had that power i find certain events in the game Illogical. But that's just me and my opinion.

I think it's how you read it as to how "heavily" implied it is. Personally it doesn't strike me as implied or suggested from that wording.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Well i was asking that. Is there any other evidence to support such a claim. You couldn't give me any, that's all. Personally if he had that power i find certain events in the game Illogical. But that's just me and my opinion.

I think it's how you read it as to how "heavily" implied it is. Personally it doesn't strike me as implied or suggested from that wording.

The EG cannot do it vampires, as far as I know. It is known, however, that EG indeed had power over Moebius's death and rebirth. It just leaves us with life now. So no, it's not "word play".

Originally posted by Burning thought
it seems she does not know the difference between claiming something as fact or attempting to base an argument on something and simply mildly discussing the possibility of it existing

And the Jedi don't?

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
The EG cannot do it vampires, as far as I know. It is known, however, that EG indeed had power over Moebius's death and rebirth. It just leaves us with life now. So no, it's not "word play".

Perhaps i'm mistaken but those 2 he can control because he collects the souls or something like that right?

But if he's never shown that power over someone living. Hence if he can, it would be nice to know how this works and to what extend this control would reach.

But you can't tell me any of that. So all the things we would need to know about it to even consider it for use in a vs or even in theory we don't know, because the powers has never been shown. We haven't been hinted of it's use, nor has anything occuring in the games suggested the use of such a power.


So it's fine for one to think about something like that. Be we literally know NOTHING about it. And from my part we have something that doesn't even have a whisper of in game proof. I'm skeptical, so sue me

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Perhaps i'm mistaken but those 2 he can control because he collects the souls or something like that right?

But if he's never shown that power over someone living. Hence if he can, it would be nice to know how this works and to what extend this control would reach.

But you can't tell me any of that. So all the things we would need to know about it to even consider it for use in a vs or even in theory we don't know, because the powers has never been shown. We haven't been hinted of it's use, nor has anything occuring in the games suggested the use of such a power.


So it's fine for one to think about something like that. Be we literally know NOTHING about it. And from my part we have something that doesn't even have a whisper of in game proof. I'm skeptical, so sue me

Yeah, it's something like that. However, taking a soul from someone(that isn't a vampire) isn't a big deal in LoK, even if that someone is still alive.

Fair enough. It's all speculation and I would never try to pass it for a fact.

None of us have, nor did we even attempt to. But yeah, the EG has brought Moebius back from the dead and he takes the souls of the dead and spins them in the wheel of fate. The only entities he has not got the control over is vampires because they dont really die and he cant get their souls even if they do, they exist as wraiths afterwards, not just helpless souls.

Originally posted by Burning thought
None of us have, nor did we even attempt to.

It was suggested as a method to kill Sin. I was curious what it ment, and as i am not a kain fan i'm not always certain what it is you're talking about.

That's all.

Seriously, Sin hits harder than Kain could ever hope to, and Elder God cannot get through Sin's shields.

How is this hard to get?

Sin uses that thing is used to break buildings. /Thread.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Seriously, Sin hits harder than Kain could ever hope to, and Elder God cannot get through Sin's shields.

How is this hard to get?

Kain fought a small part of the EG with a specified weapon that strikes at more levels than Sin.

I find it hard to believe that Sins shields have taken constant prolonged assault from an entity vastly larger than itself

EG will inevitably win though.

no burning thought no. EG has never shown force to penetrate the shield.

Yes Superluigi

The shield has never had the weight or size of the EG hitting the shield, nor has the shield ever taken prolonged assault from such an entity, so unless you provide evidence that its infinitely strong or try and use a no limits fallacy it would lower in power and deplete if its not shattered from the EG size.

The fact EG multiplies his mass extremely quickly will contribute to the mathematical fact that the EG will eventually win.

EG loses. Sin shoots it once. No durability.

Weight of all the rock it exists under. And it needs no durability....

you realise that if the EG actually supported the roof of the cavern it exists in, there freakin' ground would move whenever it did, right? EG's got nothing.

Well it burrows with its inumerable tentacles throughout the world. I dont know if it supports the land with its body but I guess it would have too otherwise there would be constant cave ins.

nothing? it would pretty much instantly regen from any Damage sin could possibly do, even its slow ass attack and thats if it survives the EG full assault of its body.

Or, there'd be no cave-ins or random moving ground if the EG just so happened to exist undergroudn without supporting the ground.

You mean the EG's pathetic tentacles that didn't even kill Kain?

Lulz.

Hes under the whole of Nosgoth and you dont think he just so happens to be holding up any of it? bs with his size he should be under the constant pressure from the planets mantle being over him but tbh this is a red herring, its irrelevant.

They never canonically hit Kain, since he is faster and has a vast array of advantages to escape them. The fat whale on the other hand does not. Its too big too escape EG tentacles and its too tiny to be a match against the EG.

Lol, it's funny because you're contradicting your arguments in the Kain vs Pyron thread.

Size =/= power. Pyron still wins, but yeah, Sin wins this.

Just so i can check, i forgot where it mentions the Elder God is planet sized.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Lol, it's funny because you're contradicting your arguments in the Kain vs Pyron thread.

Size =/= power. Pyron still wins, but yeah, Sin wins this.


Not really, Sin has nothing special to defeat size that has been shown in this thread

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Just so i can check, i forgot where it mentions the Elder God is planet sized.

This is one area, but its not mensioned. Hes seen by the player across most of the world where ever they pretty much go.

GsJcf0Mjuuk

"a cancer - a spooling parasite burrowed deep in the heart of this world"

"eternally present - here and everywhere, now and always."

This also indicates that it may be throughout every time as well, as if its a constant entity.

Ko5ISOPTvrM&feature=related

TKSGJLz_2zA

So where's the proof he goes deep into the earth?

So far we only have proof he is as long as a contient.

"burrowed deep into the heart of the world" ?

And they use "world" not continent. Unless your saying you want a source of information outside of the characters words claiming him to coever the world?

Originally posted by Burning thought
"burrowed deep into the heart of the world" ?

And they use "world" not continent. Unless your saying you want a source of information outside of the characters words claiming him to coever the world?

who said that?

I'm just speculating he's only seen in Nosgoth. Not in the water that surround it. Correct?

Actually, that suggests he's much smaller than a continent.. The heart of the world is a small area indeed compared to the surface of a planet. Also, burrowing means he leaves tunnels.. He can get from place to place without having to support any weight at all.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
who said that?

I'm just speculating he's only seen in Nosgoth. Not in the water that surround it. Correct?

Raziel, in my first vid. The developers say something as well.

You dont see the outside water around Nosgoth in the game so I wouldnt know. Considering hes in the deeper places, hes prob deep in the water, so not somewhere where anyone would see.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Actually, that suggests he's much smaller than a continent.. The heart of the world is a small area indeed compared to the surface of a planet. Also, burrowing means he leaves tunnels.. He can get from place to place without having to support any weight at all.

Not really, the Earths core/heart is larger than a continent, and he burrowed into the the deep places in the whole world, indicating hes throughout the planet, the fact we see him on the surface when hes also in the heart is also an indication of size

Originally posted by Burning thought
Raziel, in my first vid. The developers say something as well.

You dont see the outside water around Nosgoth in the game so I wouldnt know. Considering hes in the deeper places, hes prob deep in the water, so not somewhere where anyone would see.


But how does Raziel know? He's not infallible.


But that would be assuming right? We should only on on things we know if we can help it

Well the developers also say the same on the Defiance website.

Although no hes not infalliable but he wouldnt say this randomly and without reason, afterall the EG is his enemy and he has been all around Nosgoth, seeing this entity almost everywhere he goes from the Nroth of Nosgoth to the south and in between.

If he burrows nto the heart of the planet, he's smaller than the heart of the plane,t because he fits inside... /logic. If he burrows, he leaves tunnels, and is not infact, supporting anything. /logic. EG has no feats. He loses. /logic.

Hes in the heart of the planet, deep places across the world as well as on the surface for Raziel to see.

Hes far too large for Sin to comprehend fully, let alone fight....EG smothers the whale, making it look like a bath toy and tosses it into the atmosphere.

EG's not strong enough to hurt it, let alone toss it.

untold billions of tentacles that can each pummel rock and burrow through the earth, both deep and surface which includes thick metal deposits and molten currents are hardly going to have a problem tossing something as small as Sin. And Sin cannot hurt EG....so theres no way the EG can lose...

Originally posted by Burning thought
untold billions of tentacles that can each pummel rock and burrow through the earth, both deep and surface which includes thick metal deposits and molten currents are hardly going to have a problem tossing something as small as Sin. And Sin cannot hurt EG....so theres no way the EG can lose...

Where did you find this information?

Which part? most of it is covered in the last page....

I've read the whole last page. Nothing is "covered"

Well Specsavers have a deal, 2 for 1.....

Take that deal and read the page, then we can continue.

mariofacepalm

Originally posted by Burning thought
Well Specsavers have a deal, 2 for 1.....

Take that deal and read the page, then we can continue.

Take it you didn't read what I wrote: "Read the whole page"

No I did indeed read what you wrote, I was just concerned about your sight as you certainly missed a vast amount of information.

Reported for nosebleed-inducing-stupidity.

So you reported yourself? very noble of you but a strange action I must say.

Both of you knock it off. I'm sick of this constant childishness.

http://www.eidosinteractive.co.uk/gss/lokdefiance/


pretty much clearly covers what I said above, especially with the characters quotes on the previous page.

No, that says it's underground, and has tentacles.

of the world=large than a continent....as the world>continent sized. He is part of the deeper places of the world, and on the surface for those who can see him on the world.

Thanks BT, i forgot where that was written ^^'

Didn't mean to cause... well make it a debate

No problem

But anyway to sum EG up, with that information hes a tentacled and enormous mass in the deep places (more than one) of the World (not just Nosgoth or a continent).

With the character quotes they outline hes deep in the heart of the world, that hes possibly eternal and he himself claims he is everywhere and always, all these things despite being stated by characters have some facts such as the fact you see the EG all across the world and he recognises Raziel despite the diffrence in time. Also take into account the characters are not fools, Raziel would not overhype his opponent (EG). Furthermore what characters say are also script the developers have created so its unlikely to be a load of rubbish.

Fact is, the size of the world or one continent, he makes sin seem small by comparison and can multiply andregen his body parts almost on a whim. He could arguably increase his size constantly throughout the fight, not that he needs it. The fact he has all these tentacles, each burrowing through thousands of tonnes of rock (logically, based on the fact he is burrows deep into the earth, and perhaps the "heart" he would have to be extremely strong in each tentacle to burrow like this.

Originally posted by Burning thought
http://www.eidosinteractive.co.uk/gss/lokdefiance/


pretty much clearly covers what I said above, especially with the characters quotes on the previous page.


Legacy of Kain



World of Warcraft




The quote apply to both.

Just saying.

Yeah, but we do know that the Old Gods aren't nearly quite as big as the Elder God. Well, not any more at least.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Yeah, but we do know that the Old Gods aren't nearly quite as big as the Elder God. Well, not any more at least.

Which is my point. We know they aren't as big as Elder God supposedly is. My point is that the information provide, as well as the quotes and what the videos show is much too vague to simply say "He is this big"

Originally posted by Burning thought
http://www.eidosinteractive.co.uk/gss/lokdefiance/


pretty much clearly covers what I said above, especially with the characters quotes on the previous page. This can't possibly be your evidence that it is "larger than a continent."

Elder God cannot break through Sin's shields, Sin can destroy large sections of EG with single attacks, not even counting the armies of Sinspawn it will be creating.

How powerful is this shield?

Stronger than anything EG has.

Spite?

Originally posted by NemeBro
This can't possibly be your evidence that it is "larger than a continent."

Elder God cannot break through Sin's shields, Sin can destroy large sections of EG with single attacks, not even counting the armies of Sinspawn it will be creating.

Pff large sections? to the EG they would be like pin pricks, damaging small sections of skin and like said sections EG in the final fight shows he can regenerate and reform parts of himself almost instantly.

The shield is not powerful at all, its not taken something the size of the EG, its not taken prolonged assault from something anywhere near the size of the EG....

Its got nothing, EG will use tentacles that burrow through tonnes of rock throughout the world, thousands of them, probably millions if hes got the whole planetary sized form of himself to bring to bear on Sin, who will be like a bath toy being grabbed by a giant squid and throttled.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Which is my point. We know they aren't as big as Elder God supposedly is. My point is that the information provide, as well as the quotes and what the videos show is much too vague to simply say "He is this big"

Whats funny is you said the old God's, and yes your quote would be correct ,thing is the Elder God is one entity and is in many places, thus his size.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Whats funny is you said the old God's, and yes your quote would be correct ,thing is the Elder God is one entity and is in many places, thus his size.

There's more than one Old God, thus' I used plural. The magic of grammar.
The quote apply to individual Old Gods, which was my point.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
There's more than one Old God, thus' I used plural. The magic of grammar.
The quote apply to individual Old Gods, which was my point.

Magic is awesome.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Pff large sections? to the EG they would be like pin pricks, damaging small sections of skin and like said sections EG in the final fight shows he can regenerate and reform parts of himself almost instantly.

The shield is not powerful at all, its not taken something the size of the EG, its not taken prolonged assault from something anywhere near the size of the EG....

Its got nothing, EG will use tentacles that burrow through tonnes of rock throughout the world, thousands of them, probably millions if hes got the whole planetary sized form of himself to bring to bear on Sin, who will be like a bath toy being grabbed by a giant squid and throttled Only you never proved he is very big at all.

Only the EG is not that big, and he could not even crush Kain, the pussy.

Planetary sized was never proven.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
There's more than one Old God, thus' I used plural. The magic of grammar.
The quote apply to individual Old Gods, which was my point.

An individual does not exist in the deep "places"

Originally posted by NemeBro
Only you never proved he is very big at all.

Only the EG is not that big, and he could not even crush Kain, the pussy.

Planetary sized was never proven.

No my sources did, i simply pointed them out.

Yes well, Kain is obviously far too powerful to be crushed

yh, hence him being all over Nosgoth and in the heart of the world, in the deep places of the world etc