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tl;dr

Does this involve the Gorean tradition?

No... it involves underwater basket weaving, ha ha!

Long ago, we were the hunted; we were the pray. Those among us who could see the tiger's face in the random pattern of leaves, could get away. They lived another day, and had children. The ability to make sense out of chaos was pasted down from generation to generation because it gave us an ability to survive. However, this ability has a down side. It leaves us susceptible to delusions. We can look at the confusing chaos of life and see patterns. Our brain is able to connect the dots, and make stories. But just because we can see a pattern in chaos does not mean it really exists.

The natural realm and the physical laws that government such, are not chaotic. In fact, they are "constant." On the flip side, if the physical laws the govern the natural realm were chaotic, man would never have a chance at survival. In other words, man would never understand their environment. If I miss understood your point, please let me know.



This would only be true if the physical laws the govern the natural realm, were not constant. Science -- the pursuit to understand cause and effect -- would be impossible. Again, if I misunderstood your point, please let me know.

Originally posted by ushomefree
The natural realm and the physical laws that government such, are not chaotic. In fact, they are "constant." On the flip side, if the physical laws the govern the natural realm were chaotic, man would never have a chance at survival. In other words, man would never understand their environment. If I miss understood your point, please let me know.



This would only be true if the physical laws the govern the natural realm, were not constant. Science -- the pursuit to understand cause and effect -- would be impossible. Again, if I misunderstood your point, let me know.

Ya, you missed my point. I'm not talking about the laws of physics. I am talking about chaos.

The first vid started with a question: how is it that people do not see the truth when it is right before their eyes. What I am saying is that this "truth" maybe missed by most people because it is nothing but random events put together by creative minds. I was pointing out that we have a natural ability to do this. However, just because we have that ability, does not mean we are always right. "Sometime a cigar is just a cigar".

Originally posted by ushomefree
The natural realm and the physical laws that government such, are not chaotic. In fact, they are "constant." On the flip side, if the physical laws the govern the natural realm were chaotic, man would never have a chance at survival. In other words, man would never understand their environment. If I miss understood your point, please let me know.



This would only be true if the physical laws the govern the natural realm, were not constant. Science -- the pursuit to understand cause and effect -- would be impossible. Again, if I misunderstood your point, please let me know.
Yes, you misunderstood. Quite badly. Nothing you just said had anything to do with shaky's point.

I appreciate the clarification. Thank you. However, I think the video was referring to knowledge and levels of understanding. The bottom line, was understanding truth, but some people run from it. And so... they will never be able to see through the "next veil"; they are blind. In the end, they label others insane -- those who have seen the next veil. Do you understand my point?

Originally posted by ushomefree
I appreciate the clarification. Thank you. However, I think the video was referring to knowledge and levels of understanding. The bottom line, was understanding truth, but some people run from it. And so... they will never be able to see through the "next veil"; they are blind. In the end, they label others insane -- those who have seen the next veil. Do you understand my point?

I get all that... but this so called truth, is at best a product of an over active imagination.

How is it so? Give me an example, please.

Originally posted by ushomefree
How is it so? Give me an example, please.

Like what Carl Sagan said "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.", and these vids have not met that standard.

What are you now... a politician, ha ha?!

Shakira: She Wolf

Do they serve apple fritters?

At what point do these unsolicited diatribes and videos become spam? I unfortunately don't know what the precedent is for it on the forums. This is like the 10th one this week.

You're the mod. I don't know who else would know better.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Shakira: She Wolf

Why is it that when I click on this link, my porn blocker comes up?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Why is it that when I click on this link, my porn blocker comes up?

The Bible's into sodomy?

Originally posted by Digi
The Bible's into sodomy?



Oh! man, I forgot to check out ushomefree's porn site while I was home last night.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Long ago, we were the hunted; we were the pray. Those among us who could see the tiger's face in the random pattern of leaves, could get away. They lived another day, and had children. The ability to make sense out of chaos was pasted down from generation to generation because it gave us an ability to survive. However, this ability has a down side. It leaves us susceptible to delusions. We can look at the confusing chaos of life and see patterns. Our brain is able to connect the dots, and make stories. But just because we can see a pattern in chaos does not mean it really exists.

you don't think Tigers and predators might need those same pattern recognition skills?

thinking a noise is a tasty small mammal and being right is a benefit over thinking it isn't and being wrong.

just food for thought, and a more interesting topic for discussion

Originally posted by inimalist
you don't think Tigers and predators might need those same pattern recognition skills?

thinking a noise is a tasty small mammal and being right is a benefit over thinking it isn't and being wrong.

just food for thought, and a more interesting topic for discussion

Ya, there was kind of an arms race going on. It seems we won.

LOL, not quite my point...

EDIT: not quite an arms race either. The tendency of the tiger to "false pattern recognition" was not driven by the human tendency, or vice versa. This tendency is one of the most fundamental properties of the brain, which stores information as a series of patterns and builds memory/stimuli-response based on pattern prediction.

Originally posted by inimalist
LOL, not quite my point...

EDIT: not quite an arms race either. The tendency of the tiger to "false pattern recognition" was not driven by the human tendency, or vice versa. This tendency is one of the most fundamental properties of the brain, which stores information as a series of patterns and builds memory/stimuli-response based on pattern prediction.

If somehow, the relationship between pray and predictor never came into being, would the brain have developed this ability? No one really knows, but I think the relationship between pray and predictor is the main driver behind pattern recognition.

Am I still not getting what you are saying?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If somehow, the relationship between pray and predictor never came into being, would the brain have developed this ability?

yes

this is literally the ability that connects your desire and planning to move with the physical and visual sensation of your movements.

arguably the most basic function of the brain

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No one really knows, but I think the relationship between pray and predictor is the main driver behind pattern recognition.

"pattern recognition", no

"mistaking random noise for potential a food-source/predator", more relevant

the more anthropic we define it, however, the more these pattern recognition abilities are going to be driven by our social interactions than by predator/prey relations.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Am I still not getting what you are saying?

I'm really not saying anything that relevant. Nothing personal, I just like to nit pick stuff when I'm procrastinating or am bored or whatever. Pattern recognition is probably the most important thing all animals do. Ours is so good that we see patterns in everything, even when there isn't one. You can call that having the best pattern recognition, but meh, being wrong some huge percent of the time is hardly "the best" imho.

Originally posted by inimalist
yes

this is literally the ability that connects your desire and planning to move with the physical and visual sensation of your movements.

arguably the most basic function of the brain



"pattern recognition", no

"mistaking random noise for potential a food-source/predator", more relevant

the more anthropic we define it, however, the more these pattern recognition abilities are going to be driven by our social interactions than by predator/prey relations.



I'm really not saying anything that relevant. Nothing personal, I just like to nit pick stuff when I'm procrastinating or am bored or whatever. Pattern recognition is probably the most important thing all animals do. Ours is so good that we see patterns in everything, even when there isn't one. You can call that having the best pattern recognition, but meh, being wrong some huge percent of the time is hardly "the best" imho.

Get a hobby.

I can't disagree with you. I simply think that this ability can lead to illusions. Like the video on this thread. I think that people have a tenancy to look at random events and incorrectly connect the dots.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Get a hobby.

I can't disagree with you. I simply think that this ability can lead to illusions. Like the video on this thread. I think that people have a tenancy to look at random events and incorrectly connect the dots.

some recent studies have even taken that idea a little bit further

if you put someone in a mental state where they feel they have little control over the situation, or make them remember a situation where they had little control (activate similar processing pathways associated with "lack-of-control", they will be far more likely to find a pattern in the dots than someone who feels they are in control of a situation.

An interpretation of this is that, when people are faced with stressful situations, especially ones where they are the proverbial "victims of fate" (ie, a series of seemingly random negative events transpire), they will be more likely to associate some form of pattern with them. Personally, I feel this underlies a lot of conspiratorial thinking (many people suggest religion, though I think it would only be really relevant when talking about conversion).

The tendency leads us to many illusions. Man, even a lot of optical illusions might be said to work in similar ways, though, whether the filling in of visual patterns is the same as the cognitive filling in of event patterns (I would argue they are) is not so concrete.

there might be a difference between the absolute control a person has over their beliefs and the control they feel over a situation, but that is interesting