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Who wins?

Setting: a huge square battlefield 100 miles long and 100 miles wide, sides start on opposite ends. This province has flat land for the most part, but the four corners are huge forests and the middle is filled with mountains. Both sides start off with enough supplies to last them across the map one and a half times. Given the size, remember (and many people forget about this in big maps) that they aren't just charging into eachother at once.

This is the ENTIRE Persian military.

If Mace took an an army of thousands of super battledroids largely on his own then you can see where this is going to go.

The entire Persian army from 300? Are the uber Jedi with Yoda?

Originally posted by jaden101
If Mace took an an army of thousands of super battledroids largely on his own then you can see where this is going to go.

CW cartoons are exaggerated to please young viewers, which is why Mace can solo hundreds of thousands of droids with his bare hands but he and 200 other jedi get beaten back in AOTC.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The entire Persian army from 300? Are the uber Jedi with Yoda?

The ENTIRE Persian military from 300, not just those shown. Jedi are with Yoda.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
CW cartoons are exaggerated to please young viewers, which is why Mace can solo hundreds of thousands of droids with his bare hands but he and 200 other jedi get beaten back in AOTC.




True...Also true that George Lucas says the Jedi from those cartoons are more like how he envisioned the Jedi in terms of power.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
CW cartoons are exaggerated to please young viewers, which is why Mace can solo hundreds of thousands of droids with his bare hands but he and 200 other jedi get beaten back in AOTC.



The ENTIRE Persian military from 300, not just those shown. Jedi are with Yoda. ALL the uber Jedi? Obi Wan? ROTS Anakin? Mace? Adi Gallia? The council?

Persian Army wins because Star Wars sucks.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
ALL the uber Jedi? Obi Wan? ROTS Anakin? Mace? Adi Gallia? The council?

200 average jedi.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
200 average jedi. So Obi Wan and Anakin, Mace, they arent there.

The Jedi get pwned.

Depends on who this group includes. I'd give Yoda and 200 "average" a chance. As long as they aren't younglings. I pity the Persians if the High Council and "named" Jedi are involved as well. I say the Jedi take this easily. They've fought swarms of droids, mercenaries, and clones with FAR superior tech, intelligence, and tactics.

You have to give it to the Spartans though. While the Jedi can physically outperform them, I question if they have the endurance, toughness, brutality, fearlessness, and damage soak of the 300.

The one thing that i've learned from the prequel movies is that the Jedi aint all that. The only time they seem to use their full potential is when no one is looking and by no one i mean the camera. They don't even have good morales. The Jedi are dead.

There should no reason why 200 Jedi would lose against the primitive Persian army. The Persians would most likely believe the Jedi to be divine and drop arms and begin to wroship them after witnessing their physical capabilities. Although, the Prequels have shown the Jedi to be weak and stupid so, yeah, they lose.

Even if it's Yoda and 200 of the best Jedi, they're not defeating the entire Persian army that was supposed to be a million+.

Jedi would decimate and then some, but in the end the Persians would win due to greater numbers, though for every Jedi death there would likely be hundreds if not thousands of dead Persians left behind.

The only threat the Jedi have besides tiring(assuming they rest at night like the 300) is the massive "block out the sun" arrow shootings.

There is no dark side here to cloud the judgement of the Jedi, dude.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
There is no dark side here to cloud the judgement of the Jedi, dude.

They're still human and they tire and the Persians can attack them in endless waves.

I already said they get pwned. They need the uppet tier Jedi to have a chance here. Mace can use his penis to force choke them.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I already said they get pwned. They need the uppet tier Jedi to have a chance here. Mace can use his penis to force choke them.

Give them all the top-level Jedi, Mace, the ***** with the tentacles and the awesome boobs, the cone-head etc. They're still not defeating a million plus guys. Arrows, spears and endless waves of grunts will slowly pick them off.

the jedi are goners

Originally posted by Robtard
Give them all the top-level Jedi, Mace, the ***** with the tentacles and the awesome boobs, the cone-head etc. They're still not defeating a million plus guys. Arrows, spears and endless waves of grunts will slowly pick them off. Remember that big ass retarded looking beast the Persians used? Yoda can use the Jedi mind trick on it and turn it against the Persians.

Originally posted by jaden101
True...Also true that George Lucas says the Jedi from those cartoons are more like how he envisioned the Jedi in terms of power.

Canon!

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Remember that big ass retarded looking beast the Persians used? Yoda can use the Jedi mind trick on it and turn it against the Persians.

Yes, the Ogre. That isn't going to turn the tides or war, it's just one large dude, the Persians have a million+ units to draw upon.

Originally posted by Robtard
the Persians have a million+ units to draw upon.

Sorry but where was it stated that the persian army counted more then a million?

Originally posted by Utrigita
Sorry but where was it stated that the persian army counted more then a million?

The movie.

Yoda TKs all their weapons//end thread

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So Obi Wan and Anakin, Mace, they arent there.

The Jedi get pwned.

They have YODA, and average jedi are still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persian soldiers from the movie.

Originally posted by Robtard
Give them all the top-level Jedi, Mace, the ***** with the tentacles and the awesome boobs, the cone-head etc. They're still not defeating a million plus guys. Arrows, spears and endless waves of grunts will slowly pick them off.


Remember that this isn't all at once. It's in a pretty big landscape, and the Persian army would likely split up in order to find the jedi.

The jedi, having space age technology, combined with their Force senses, would be able to easily outmaneuver the Persians and attack them w/hit and run attacks. They simply hide, a Persian force comes, and they fire at them with blasters (Jedi DO often use blasters). Persians will run towards them but get mowed down, and then they'd either break at the "magic beams!" or try and chase after them, but the jedi are much faster and would flee. So it would go down like that, with the Persians unable to respond at all really.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Remember that big ass retarded looking beast the Persians used? Yoda can use the Jedi mind trick on it and turn it against the Persians.

True, but one big guy is really irrelevant.

Originally posted by Robtard
They're still human and they tire and the Persians can attack them in endless waves.

Yeah, but they'll laugh first as the Persians get mowed down by blaster fire, and then the jedi simply run away when they get close.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
the jedi are goners

Nice, explicit argument here.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
They have YODA, and average jedi are still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persian soldiers from the movie.




Remember that this isn't all at once. It's in a pretty big landscape, and the Persian army would likely split up in order to find the jedi.

The jedi, having space age technology, combined with their Force senses, would be able to easily outmaneuver the Persians and attack them w/hit and run attacks. They simply hide, a Persian force comes, and they fire at them with blasters (Jedi DO often use blasters). Persians will run towards them but get mowed down, and then they'd either break at the "magic beams!" or try and chase after them, but the jedi are much faster and would flee. So it would go down like that, with the Persians unable to respond at all really.



True, but one big guy is really irrelevant.



Yeah, but they'll laugh first as the Persians get mowed down by blaster fire, and then the jedi simply run away when they get close.



Nice, explicit argument here.


i don't feel like arguing sometimes, maybe next time here or the star wars section

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
i don't feel like arguing sometimes, maybe next time here or the star wars section

Just to paraphrase myself:

Jedi often times in many occasions use blasters as well as lightsabers.

They have better knowledge of Persians' movements due to Force/better tech, and can move faster due to Force enhanced speed.

Can ambush Persians and shoot w/blasters that are longer ranged than swords/spears/even bows.

Persians either flee in terror or charge.

Charging lots die and jedi run away.

Persians are slower and can't catch up.

Jedi wait to strike again and again.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, the Ogre. That isn't going to turn the tides or war, it's just one large dude, the Persians have a million+ units to draw upon. How many Persians were there exactly?

jedi with complete and utter ease. they turn back the arrows and destroy them that way then force **** them all

Persians get rocked. 200 jedi force pushing at once clears the battlefield.

Jedi, imo. Arrows aren't going to bother people that have telekinesis...

The only problem I have with the Jedi winning that easily, is the fact that the Jedi numbers began dwindling fast when Anakin became Darth Vader. Didn't the movies say that Vader eliminated most of the remaining Jedi by himself? It seems to me that if that many Jedi were still around, including Yoda(who was probably more powerful in the force than Palpatine), couldn't the Jedi have destroyed the Empire before it got started? Surely, someone of Yoda's power could force push a Death Star..lol.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
The only problem I have with the Jedi winning that easily, is the fact that the Jedi numbers began dwindling fast when Anakin became Darth Vader. Didn't the movies say that Vader eliminated most of the remaining Jedi by himself? It seems to me that if that many Jedi were still around, including Yoda(who was probably more powerful in the force than Palpatine), couldn't the Jedi have destroyed the Empire before it got started? Surely, someone of Yoda's power could force push a Death Star..lol.

There was an entire clone army against them, not to mention the CIS. 10,000 jedi wouldn't be able to win, especially since they were caught completely by surprise.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Just to paraphrase myself:

Jedi often times in many occasions use blasters as well as lightsabers.

They have better knowledge of Persians' movements due to Force/better tech, and can move faster due to Force enhanced speed.

Can ambush Persians and shoot w/blasters that are longer ranged than swords/spears/even bows.

Persians either flee in terror or charge.

Charging lots die and jedi run away.

Persians are slower and can't catch up.

Jedi wait to strike again and again.

-Jedi rarely if ever use blasters. In all 6 films, you can count the times Jedi used guns on one hand.

-That first part made no sense. Yes, they can run away faster.

-See above, no guns.

-They'd probably be charging, since that's what they do, they also have thousands of arrows, ie enough to darken the sky in one volley.

-If the Jedi run, they're exposing their backs; some will die from doing this. They can't afford to lose guys, while the Persians can.

-Arrows can catch up; quickly too.

-Each time they strike, they'll likely loss some units. In the end, the Persians win due to vastly superior numbers.

To sum it up, the Jedi can kill large numbers of Persians, but 200 of them aren't taking down the whole Persian army, which was over a million strong.

Afraid so.

To be honest the best answer here is, the persians worship them as gods ;p

This is a funny threat though. I vote the jedi take it to be honest. Simply because in the middle there are mountains. The jedi can leap massively, and use their powers to create a strong advantage here.

As for the sky being dark with arrows. I vote force push?

Originally posted by EvilAngel
To be honest the best answer here is, the persians worship them as gods ;p

This is a funny threat though. I vote the jedi take it to be honest. Simply because in the middle there are mountains. The jedi can leap massively, and use their powers to create a strong advantage here.

As for the sky being dark with arrows. I vote force push?

Indeed. These are close to my thoughts, as well.



The Jedi will just show their powers, cause them to weep/worship, and they could all force push at once in the direction of the persians.



And, Anakin killing all of those Jedi doesn't mean the Jedi are weak. It means that Anakin is the chosen one, having been conceived by the force itself.

SW fanboyism rears its ugly head yet again. Retarded, you people are.

It's 5,000+ to 1. Even if the Persians were Ewoks, they'd win due to numbers.

Originally posted by Robtard
SW fanboyism rears its ugly head yet again. Retarded, you people are.

It's 5,000+ to 1. Even if the Persians were Ewoks, they'd win due to numbers.

Jeez someones testy. Fine I'll keep my opinions to myself lol.

But if you think your enemy to be more than human i don't think you're considering the full extent that would have on your morale. Especially back then when people were very susceptible to it.

But whatever, it's really not that important to me ;p


edit: It's less than 5000 to 1, since it's 200 jedi, plus Yoda, making 201

Originally posted by Robtard
SW fanboyism rears its ugly head yet again. Retarded, you people are.

It's 5,000+ to 1. Even if the Persians were Ewoks, they'd win due to numbers.

The Ewoks took on fully armed Imperial Clone Troops complete with several AT-ST Walker backup. Ewoks, ftw!

Originally posted by Robtard
-Jedi rarely if ever use blasters. In all 6 films, you can count the times Jedi used guns on one hand.


But they do have access to blasters, and the reason why they don't use blasters that often is because lightsabers often work better for them, but in this scenario blasters would arguably work better. And even without blasters, the same or at least almost the same can be accomplished with TK or even throwing their sabers and jedi don't use blasters that often in the movies, but in many books they are shown to carry around blasters as well. Heck, they could even improvise by stealing/making bows and arrows, or even making guns/blasters, although the latter would require an expert engineer to be among the jedi.

Originally posted by Robtard

-That first part made no sense. Yes, they can run away faster.


Their space age technology + their Force senses will allow them to move faster, gain the most advantageous terrain,and track the movements of the Persians.

Originally posted by Robtard

-See above, no guns.


See above

Originally posted by Robtard


-They'd probably be charging, since that's what they do, they also have thousands of arrows, ie enough to darken the sky in one volley.


"that's what they do???" in the movies, a large portion of the Persians were slaves with little motivation to fight. They were freaked out at the Spartans, so imagine what supernatural beings would do to them.

Oh, and are you sure that the "darken the sky" claim isn't hyperbole? And even if it isn't, Jedi can block, TK, or even run away.

Originally posted by Robtard


-If the Jedi run, they're exposing their backs; some will die from doing this. They can't afford to lose guys, while the Persians can.

-Arrows can catch up; quickly too.


If the Jedi are smart, they'd start running, and when the arrow volley gets close they'd stop and block/TK, and then start running again. Persian foot soldiers can't catch up.

Originally posted by Robtard

-Each time they strike, they'll likely loss some units. In the end, the Persians win due to vastly superior numbers.

To sum it up, the Jedi can kill large numbers of Persians, but 200 of them aren't taking down the whole Persian army, which was over a million strong.

To be honest, it largely depends on whether or not we allow blasters for the jedi, and the range of their TK.

But here's another tactic: Yoda gets the SW equivalent of a microphone and uses it to mind trick the Persian army. Since the movies portrays much of them as slaves, Yoda could mind trick them into fighting eachother.

Or they hide in the mountains, Persians try and climb up but Jedi combine Forces (pun sort of intended) and TK a large landslide on the Persians.

Or many other ways. Space age tech + Force powers really gives you a lot of options.

If a number of Jedi do the Jedi mind trick and turn Persians against Persians, thats uber cool.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Jeez someones testy. Fine I'll keep my opinions to myself lol.

But if you think your enemy to be more than human i don't think you're considering the full extent that would have on your morale. Especially back then when people were very susceptible to it.

But whatever, it's really not that important to me ;p


edit: It's less than 5000 to 1, since it's 200 jedi, plus Yoda, making 201

No, feel free to express them, but if they're faulty, expect them to be punched full of holes.

These are the Persians from the movie, you know.

K.

No, it's more, as there's more than a million Persians.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
But they do have access to blasters, and the reason why they don't use blasters that often is because lightsabers often work better for them, but in this scenario blasters would arguably work better. And even without blasters, the same or at least almost the same can be accomplished with TK or even throwing their sabers and jedi don't use blasters that often in the movies, but in many books they are shown to carry around blasters as well. Heck, they could even improvise by stealing/making bows and arrows, or even making guns/blasters, although the latter would require an expert engineer to be among the jedi.

Their space age technology + their Force senses will allow them to move faster, gain the most advantageous terrain,and track the movements of the Persians.

See above

"that's what they do???" in the movies, a large portion of the Persians were slaves with little motivation to fight. They were freaked out at the Spartans, so imagine what supernatural beings would do to them.

Oh, and are you sure that the "darken the sky" claim isn't hyperbole? And even if it isn't, Jedi can block, TK, or even run away.

If the Jedi are smart, they'd start running, and when the arrow volley gets close they'd stop and block/TK, and then start running again. Persian foot soldiers can't catch up.

To be honest, it largely depends on whether or not we allow blasters for the jedi, and the range of their TK.

But here's another tactic: Yoda gets the SW equivalent of a microphone and uses it to mind trick the Persian army. Since the movies portrays much of them as slaves, Yoda could mind trick them into fighting eachother.

Or they hide in the mountains, Persians try and climb up but Jedi combine Forces (pun sort of intended) and TK a large landslide on the Persians.

Or many other ways. Space age tech + Force powers really gives you a lot of options.

Well, if you're going to go against the forum rules and give the Jedi things they rarely if ever use and allow them powers like "massive mind tricking through microphones" (which was hilariously stupid) that they never showed in the films, all the while gimping the Persians, sure, 200 of these non-movie Jedi can kill a million+ of gimp-Persians.

That isn't gimping. By that logic, McClane's luck factor shouldn't be taken into account because it's a non identifiable resource. All the Jedi have to do, by the way, is take away their weapons. TK for the win.

Its very very easily identifiable. Its on screen for 4 movies.

Easily as identifiable as any Jedi Power.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
That isn't gimping. By that logic, McClane's luck factor shouldn't be taken into account because it's a non identifiable resource. All the Jedi have to do, by the way, is take away their weapons. TK for the win.

No, it's gimping and your comparison makes no sense here.

Because a Jedi has ever shown the ability to TK thousands and thousands of weapons at once.

The analogy makes perfect sense. You said that the Jedi have rarely been shown to use blasters, but it is still a resouce. McClane is always vaunted as having amazing luck, but who gives a shit when luck is a vague resource here or there and not part of his skill set.

The Jedi have been shown to TK things such as Senate pods and X Wings in the films. The combined mass of the weapons on the front lines are signifigantly less than those. Also, the Jedi have precog and amazing acrobatic skills.

Yes and look how vulnerable the Jedi in question is during that period of concentration... No Lightsabre, both hands out, eyes closed at times....

Also, the Buzz Droid issue in episode 3... Not all jedi seem capable of
force manipulating multiple targets at once.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
The analogy makes perfect sense. You said that the Jedi have rarely been shown to use blasters, but it is still a resouce. McClane is always vaunted as having amazing luck, but who gives a shit when luck is a vague resource here or there and not part of his skill set.

The Jedi have been shown to TK things such as Senate pods and X Wings in the films. The combined mass of the weapons on the front lines are signifigantly less than those. Also, the Jedi have precog and amazing acrobatic skills.

Name the numbers of times a Jedi has used a gun. Name the number of times a Jedi was shown carrying a gun.

Exactly, they're shown moving ONE thing at a time, when have they ever pulled thousands and thousands of different objects at once? Never. While they're trying to remove spears and swords from the front ranks, they'll be volleys and volleys of arrows coming in from the rear lines.

They dodge the arrows in a Force enhanced leap and scatter the rear guard with a strong Force push. They've done it to battle droids, and they can do it to regular humans as well. Not to mention that their lightsaber can block almost everything elses attacks.

If I recall, the Jedi did use blasters in the cartoon movies, correct me if I'm wrong. Either way, it doesn't matter if they have or haven't. PIS is off, and the Jedi have not shown a hesistation to kill or maim if they have no choice.

Why is the Jedi mind trick being ignored?

Every movie I have seen with archers, there is always someone amongst them directing their fire, like a commander type dude. Apply the Jedi mind trick to him, have him direct his fire at the Persian horde, maybe?

And IF there is a volley of arrows coming at the Jedi, then Yoda can have a designated number of them use force push to deflect the arrows. Yes, this will work, before it is dismissed. If a force push can send super battle droids flying, surely it will work on arrows.

Without the archers, the Persians have little chance of winning here, and I have just provided two perfectly good ways of nullifying the archers.

Sorry to dismiss them so abruptly, but you have overlooked a copule of things in your plans there:

Jedi mind tricks only work on the weak minded.

A military commander, entrusted with the lives of thousands and thousands of troops might not have the IQ of a clone/stormtrooper/Gammorean guard like level.

Where in a movie has Yoda ever shielded space large enough to cover an army of 200 people...?
(Whilst repelling thousands of ground troops simltaneously...?)

Just a theory, dude. For all we know the Persian in command of the archers is an idiot.

It would be more than just Yoda deflecting the arrows.

Hell, all it would take really is a few Jedi to be in the archers midst, cutting them down, and surely their attention will be diverted.

Another possibiity is Yoda levitating a huge boulder onto the archers. There are many ways to negate the archers from the equation.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Why is the Jedi mind trick being ignored?

Every movie I have seen with archers, there is always someone amongst them directing their fire, like a commander type dude. Apply the Jedi mind trick to him, have him direct his fire at the Persian horde, maybe?

And IF there is a volley of arrows coming at the Jedi, then Yoda can have a designated number of them use force push to deflect the arrows. Yes, this will work, before it is dismissed. If a force push can send super battle droids flying, surely it will work on arrows.

Without the archers, the Persians have little chance of winning here, and I have just provided two perfectly good ways of nullifying the archers.

I just talked about mind tricks and how they could help the Jedi

Originally posted by Robtard
Well, if you're going to go against the forum rules and give the Jedi things they rarely if ever use and allow them powers like "massive mind tricking through microphones" (which was hilariously stupid) that they never showed in the films, all the while gimping the Persians, sure, 200 of these non-movie Jedi can kill a million+ of gimp-Persians.

It's not gimping, it has been shown many times that Jedi can use mind tricks. It has been stated that Yoda is very strong in the Force. It has been stated that many of the Persians (in the movie) were slaves. Logic would dictate that slaves that were forced to fight would have little motivation and would likely be weak minded.

I'll repeat, it's 201 to a 1,000,000+; no amount of silly fanboyism about Jedi mind-tricking thousands and thousands at once or the Persians just being morons is going to change that 200 can't kill over a million armed soldiers, even with their comparatively crude weapons.

No, RJ's right. The Jedi Mind Trick seemed to work on a con-artist in Episode 2. I see no reason why a mind trick wouldn't work on a field commander.

For regular humans to have resistance to Jedi Mind tricks, they had to have special training. Example of this is the Jedi Civil war.

Also, Bib Fortuna was far from an idiot. He was a very smart person. He spoke many languages and had a great education. He ran Jabba's palace, for crying out loud.

Very few of the Persian army would stand a chance. I would say that Xerxes would be able to resist it...but I don't think anyone else could. Not even that underling. (IMO, a dumber equivalent to Bib Fortuna.)


Its borderline anti-Star Wars to say a mind trick wouldn't work on a field commander that had little to no education and would be the equivalent of a retard by today's IQ standards.




If Bib Fortuna is susceptible, that makes 99%+ of the humans susceptible, too. Jabba had people killed, regularly, for small things. The fact the Bib survived for years in Jabba's palace should be a testament to how smart he was.





Now, about the arrows.

They are absolutely useless against even young padawans. Force Telekinesis is such a basic and easy technique for force users that they learn how to do it as younglings. More powerful Jedi and Sith can move multiple objects at once with no problem. The amount of effort or control that has to be employed to keep arrows off of themselves would be very insignificant. Those arrows don't weigh very much at all. They don't even have to focus too much to do it...and they wouldn't really have to look.


Now, if they started launching boulders at them from catapults, that might be a different story for some of the weaker knights. However, even that shouldn't pose too much of a problem for the majority of them. In fact, that could easily be force pushed back at the other troops and it could end up working against the Persians if they used catapults.


Yoda, alone, could pick up a large object like a boulder and just start beating the troops with it like it was a cartoon. He could take out tens of thousands, completely on his own, in just a few minutes. (SOmething a tenth the mass of those senate chair thingies would do just fine, especially considering the boulder wouldn't be as dense or as large as those large metal senate seats)

Well there it is, the Jedi win. I cant believe I ever doubted them haermm

Sure, if the Jedi can do shit they've never done on film and the Persian army just sits idly by, yeah.

It took Yoda a lot on concentration to stop and then move the falling roof; it was also very slow moving the rubble. He or any Jedi attempting this rediculous "boulder attack" would leave himself/herself open to charging Persians and arrows.

A Jedi mind tricking a commander would have to be fairly close to perform that trick, he/she be killed by the hundreds or thousands of soldiers close by.

40-50 Jedi couldn't defeat a few hundred battle droids; in the end, rampant SW fanboyism/idiocy does win. Even against odds that are 5,000+ to 1.

Originally posted by Robtard
Sure, if the Jedi can do shit they've never done on film and the Persian army just sits idly by, yeah.

This does not address anything I've stated as everything I've stated was correct.

Originally posted by Robtard
It took Yoda a lot on concentration to stop and then move the falling roof; it was also very slow moving the rubble. He or any Jedi attempting this rediculous "boulder attack" would leave himself/herself open to charging Persians and arrows.

1. They were multiple objects.

2. It was spread out over a larger area.

3. It was a massive feat of his TK ability.

4. The boulder would not be as massive.

5. It would be a single object.

6. He has plenty of Jedi to watch his back.

Originally posted by Robtard
A Jedi mind tricking a commander would have to be fairly close to perform that trick, he/she be killed by the hundreds or thousands of soldiers close by.

K.

Any Jedi force pulls the commander close, Jedi mind tricks, and throws him back. The end.

Originally posted by Robtard
40-50 Jedi couldn't defeat a few hundred battle droids; in the end, rampant SW fanboyism/idiocy does win. Even against odds that are 5,000+ to 1.

Cause a battle droid is MUCH less of a threat than a medieval human with a sword, right?

I don't think this is a case of Star Wars fanboyism. This is just another cause of Anti-Star Wars in the versus threads. What's new?

The American Colonists managed to stall and eventually defeat the British Empire using limited resources and guerrilla tactics.

Given the scenario presented in the original post, I don't see why the Jedi couldn't do the same. Even if we limit them to solid movie feats, which is really somewhat...well, not very realistic.

Against the arrows, the jedi can just run away. Remember that scene in TPM where Obi and Qui-gon run really fast, That. Aganst the Persians, well really, the persians have next to no chance, they're fighting supernatural beings that a) have weapons that will instantly cut through anything on the field. One swing would go right through a persians sword, shield, armor, body and those of his neighbour like butter. b) Know whats going to happen before it does. Alot of the 300 probably got cut down from behind, no chance of that here. And c) Can draw on the Force to increase their stamina, and these guys are already at the peak of their races physical fitness (except for Yoda, who will btw be next to unstoppable in CQC).

That my two cents.

More like ten cents haermm

During a force toss, how many Persians do you think a lightsaber could cut down?



I'm yet to see anyone give a significant or even practical defensive theory on how the Persians would defend against force push.

They wouldn't. All the Jedi would need to do is stand at the same point where the 300 fought off the horseback cavalry and the elephants and just keep force pushing and thowing Persians off the cliffs and into the sea.

Any barrage of arrows could just be force pushed away and a few jedi at the rear could constantly watch for just that type of attack.

It's said the 300 killed 10,000 on the 1st day of battle against the Persians without losing a man. I'm pretty sure 200 Jedi could do several times that quite easily.

With the right tactics the Jedi could easily destroy 1,000,000 Persians.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
During a force toss, how many Persians do you think a lightsaber could cut down?



I'm yet to see anyone give a significant or even practical defensive theory on how the Persians would defend against force push.

Many.

There is none.

Originally posted by jaden101
They wouldn't. All the Jedi would need to do is stand at the same point where the 300 fought off the horseback cavalry and the elephants and just keep force pushing and thowing Persians off the cliffs and into the sea.

Any barrage of arrows could just be force pushed away and a few jedi at the rear could constantly watch for just that type of attack.

It's said the 300 killed 10,000 on the 1st day of battle against the Persians without losing a man. I'm pretty sure 200 Jedi could do several times that quite easily.

With the right tactics the Jedi could easily destroy 1,000,000 Persians.

The 300 did so well because of the unique landscape, where the Persian's massive numbers meant nothing; this isn't that location. It's 5,000+ to 1 in a massive battlefield.

I can accept the rest being silly clowns and saying nonsense like "forcing pulling commanders and then mind tricking them", "flinging about boulders with impunity", "massive mind trick sweeps via microphones" etc., but not you.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
The American Colonists managed to stall and eventually defeat the British Empire using limited resources and guerrilla tactics.

Given the scenario presented in the original post, I don't see why the Jedi couldn't do the same. Even if we limit them to solid movie feats, which is really somewhat...well, not very realistic.

Originally posted by Robtard
The 300 did so well because of the unique landscape, where the Persian's massive numbers meant nothing; this isn't that location. It's 5,000+ to 1 in a massive battlefield.

I can accept the rest being silly clowns and saying nonsense like "forcing pulling commanders and then mind tricking them", "flinging about boulders with impunity", "massive mind trick sweeps via microphones" etc., but not you. What's so silly about the first two?

Originally posted by Robtard
The 300 did so well because of the unique landscape, where the Persian's massive numbers meant nothing; this isn't that location. It's 5,000+ to 1 in a massive battlefield.

I can accept the rest being silly clowns and saying nonsense like "forcing pulling commanders and then mind tricking them", "flinging about boulders with impunity", "massive mind trick sweeps via microphones" etc., but not you.

My mistake. Hadn't paid attention to the location.

This would no doubt make it far more difficult. I guess it would depend a lot on what the Jedi could utilise in the enviroment. If it was just a large flat plain with no rocks, trees etc to force throw or hide in then it could be extremely problematic for the Jedi.

The defence against arrows still applies though. I can't see any single Persian landing a sword blow on a Jedi 1 on 1. It would have to be a case of each Jedi being completely surrounding and having all opponents striking them from all directions. This would work simply due to the fact that a Jedi can't have their lightsabre at all angles to defend themselves from every direction at all times.

If the Jedi arranged themselves in a circular phalanx so that they were only being attacked from the front with a number of Jedi in the middle doing the force push defence from arrows and doing what they can in terms of offence.

So the Jedi could form their circular formation.

If the Persians follow their similar attack pattern then they would throw a load of untrained and lightly armed infantry that would simply be force thrown, pushed and lightsabre thrown to pieces and probably wouldn't even get close to the Jedi.

Then would come a barrage of arrows that could easily be defended against.

Any kind of animal could be mind tricked or tamed and used as a weapon as Obi-wan does with the creature he uses to chase down Grievous.

The magicians would get slaughtered.

The immortals would get slaughtered.

The problem for the persians is they can't use all 1,000,000 of them at a time. Once you reach the front of the circle they'd have enough room for about 2 or 3 Persians for every Jedi. They'd get hammered. The Jedi could go on like this for hours and hours. Say each Jedi killed 1 Persian every 5 seconds....that's 200 Persians every 5 seconds...2,400 Persians every minute....144,000 Persians in an hour.

7 hours makes over a million.

You think the Jedi could last 7 hours?...I think so.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
What's so silly about the first two?

because it addresses the Jedi abilities and apparently anyone who does that is silly


It doesn't matter where this battle takes place. The fact still remains...,the Persians would be incapable of getting into striking distance due to force push. It's hard to kill someone with a sword when you are unable to get close enough strike.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
because it addresses the Jedi abilities and apparently anyone who does that is silly haermm

Laugh it up, fuzzball....

Not onscreen abilities though, Scythe, which is what counts...
It has never been shown that Jedi can just fling boulders around with impunity. If it was a Jedi thing, we would have seen them use it a lot, a probably effortlessly.. Its more of a Sith thing, anyway to try to do that..

Force pushing a million people out of the way...?
AND covering the constant and massive arrow and spear onslaught?

I just dont think it'd be the one sided Michael Bay directed victory that some maintain here.

Did you just mistake me for the Goat?

Originally posted by jaden101
My mistake. Hadn't paid attention to the location.

This would no doubt make it far more difficult. I guess it would depend a lot on what the Jedi could utilise in the enviroment. If it was just a large flat plain with no rocks, trees etc to force throw or hide in then it could be extremely problematic for the Jedi.

The defence against arrows still applies though. I can't see any single Persian landing a sword blow on a Jedi 1 on 1. It would have to be a case of each Jedi being completely surrounding and having all opponents striking them from all directions. This would work simply due to the fact that a Jedi can't have their lightsabre at all angles to defend themselves from every direction at all times.

If the Jedi arranged themselves in a circular phalanx so that they were only being attacked from the front with a number of Jedi in the middle doing the force push defence from arrows and doing what they can in terms of offence.

So the Jedi could form their circular formation.

If the Persians follow their similar attack pattern then they would throw a load of untrained and lightly armed infantry that would simply be force thrown, pushed and lightsabre thrown to pieces and probably wouldn't even get close to the Jedi.

Then would come a barrage of arrows that could easily be defended against.

Any kind of animal could be mind tricked or tamed and used as a weapon as Obi-wan does with the creature he uses to chase down Grievous.

The magicians would get slaughtered.

The immortals would get slaughtered.

The problem for the persians is they can't use all 1,000,000 of them at a time. Once you reach the front of the circle they'd have enough room for about 2 or 3 Persians for every Jedi. They'd get hammered. The Jedi could go on like this for hours and hours. Say each Jedi killed 1 Persian every 5 seconds....that's 200 Persians every 5 seconds...2,400 Persians every minute....144,000 Persians in an hour.

7 hours makes over a million.

You think the Jedi could last 7 hours?...I think so.

While 5,000+ couldn't attack each Jedi at once, they could come in waves of spear-man, sword-men and cavalry from all angles, all the while arrows would be falling, the Persians have no problem killing their (as per Xerxes) own with arrow showers, if it kills the enemy too. So the Jedi would be attacking and defending constantly, they'd wear down and they'd slip up.

Your math relies on no Jedi dying; they would. Each time one dies, they're considerably weaker, considering the numbers the Persians can draw from.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
What's so silly about the first two?

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
because it addresses the Jedi abilities and apparently anyone who does that is silly



Because force pulling a commander and mind tricking him isn't feasible in the middle of a battle, the Jedi trying this would likely get killed during the attempt, as his defenses would be down. I don't think Jedi are that stupid.

The Jedi have never shown the ability to fling about large objects like a boulder with ease or great speed. It took their strongest (Yoda) a lot on concentration and the movement of the object was slow.

You talking about the X Wing, or the debris falling on Obi and Anakin? If it's the former, Yoda was old and death was at his door. If it's the latter, well, DDM already said it was multiple objects, not just one.

You are failing to remember the scene in ROTS when Obi Wan force pulled that big hunk of equipment from the ceiling onto the Magna Guards.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Laugh it up, fuzzball....

Not onscreen abilities though, Scythe, which is what counts...
It has never been shown that Jedi can just fling boulders around with impunity. If it was a Jedi thing, we would have seen them use it a lot, a probably effortlessly.. Its more of a Sith thing, anyway to try to do that..

Force pushing a million people out of the way...?
AND covering the constant and massive arrow and spear onslaught?

I just dont think it'd be the one sided Michael Bay directed victory that some maintain here.

Haha, I don't know what's going on.

Originally posted by Robtard
While 5,000+ couldn't attack each Jedi at once, they could come in waves of spear-man, sword-men and cavalry from all angles, all the while arrows would be falling, the Persians have no problem killing their (as per Xerxes) own with arrow showers, if it kills the enemy too. So the Jedi would be attacking and defending constantly, they'd wear down and they'd slip up.

Your math relies on no Jedi dying; they would. Each time one dies, they're considerably weaker, considering the numbers the Persians can draw from.

You'd have Jedi who's sole job would be defence from arrows. Attacking only in gaps between arrow barrages. Making them null and void.

Again, due to space constraints, you'd only be able to have 3 Persians attacking any 1 Jedi at a time...Regardless of whether they were sword or spear men I can't see them causing too much trouble.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth


Force pushing a million people out of the way...?
AND covering the constant and massive arrow and spear onslaught?




Why would that be so difficult? The jedi force pushed heavy battle droids like they were nothing.

Mmmmmmmmhm.

Originally posted by Robtard
The 300 did so well because of the unique landscape, where the Persian's massive numbers meant nothing; this isn't that location. It's 5,000+ to 1 in a massive battlefield.

I can accept the rest being silly clowns and saying nonsense like "forcing pulling commanders and then mind tricking them", "flinging about boulders with impunity", "massive mind trick sweeps via microphones" etc., but not you.


Hey, someone wanted to argue semantics, so I completely kicked the semantic chair out form underneath that person. Still, we could "force speed" to the person, quickly make the suggestion, and be back in time to high five Yoda. You just don't like the idea that the Jedi have haxor powers that make some things just retarded like.


And, just because you don't like the idea that Yoda could easily turn a 1000lb rock into a massive telekinetic hammer, doesn't mean he can't do it. He quickly reacted and held up that massive metal column and tossed it aside. It weighed many tons. If he struggled under that weight, then it should be easy as hell for him to move around something many times lighter. AHA!



I just read some more anti-Star Wars sentiments.

Come on guys. I mean, really? Are you serious? You're just going to ignore the fact that Jedi routinely throw around hundreds of pounds of metal like they are nothing? That's just simply rediculous. Then, on top of that, you have one othe greatest force users of all time, Yoda, being demoted to BELOW even padawan's ability to move about hundreds of pounds of metal. That's beyond rediculous. Why the hell couldn't Yoda do it when it is absurdly within his ability? That's what I'd do. It's certainly be awesome and would be much more effective. Since he is versitile with multiple objects, I don't see why he couldn't just force push and pull around that boulder while also blocking any incoming arrows.

And, as EvilAngel intelligently pointed out, they Persians would shit their pants and call him a god.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Why would that be so difficult? The jedi force pushed heavy battle droids like they were nothing.

At close range a few at a time, sure.

And likewise there were times like with the buzzdroids, where they couldn't...... I think we remember Anakin taking that machinery in the face on that conveyor line in AOTC...

Force pushes/pulls (especially paired with the muchly cited foresight could have saved many of the Jedi killed during the purge...but it didnt.)

That just doesnt wash as a bankable, useable inifinite times, infalibale tactic/ability..

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Did you just mistake me for the Goat?


Hahahahah you got me.

I screwed up.

Apologies to Scythe to.
The fuzzball Han quote was indeed for RJ.

I remember that young Jedi in ROTS wrecking shop against the Clones. He took out several before he got shot, and the Clones had blasters yo. No doubt most of the Jedi will be far better trained than him, and when one or more gets amongst the Persian archers, man.......

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
At close range a few at a time, sure.

And likewise there were times like with the buzzdroids, where they couldn't...... I think we remember Anakin taking that machinery in the face on that conveyor line in AOTC...

Force pushes/pulls (especially paired with the muchly cited foresight could have saved many of the Jedi killed during the purge...but it didnt.)

That just doesnt wash as a bankable, useable inifinite times, infalibale tactic/ability..


1. We don't use PIS in these debates. Their powers come over into these versus debates.

2. Again, their "precognition" to sense when they were betrayed was greatly clouded by the dark side. They didn't see it coming. Not even Yoda could forsee it until a few moments before it started to happen...despite him sitting around all day meditating like a buddhist, trying to see teh futurez.

3. Since NONE of the persians are dark side force user on par with Sidious, AND, none of them are even force users, the idea that their forsight would be impared to the level it was against the Jedi Purge is rather rediculous. It's a non sequitor fallacy. (Committed quite a bit in these parts.)

4. Just because you don't like their power set, doesn't mean they don't have it.





Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I remember that young Jedi in ROTS wrecking shop against the Clones. He took out several before he got shot, and the Clones had blasters yo. No doubt most of the Jedi will be far better trained than him, and when one or more gets amongst the Persian archers, man.......

Indeed. None of the arrows would travel nearly as fast as a blaster bolt. Which is between 300-600 MPH, depending on which scene you want to look at. (You can look at the attack of the clones battle and some blaster bolts travel a few miles a second. Inconsistant. I use the Obi Wan versus Jang Fett Fight scene as the measure of speed.)

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Hahahahah you got me.

I screwed up.

Apologies to Scythe to.
The fuzzball Han quote was indeed for RJ.

He's got a goat on his mind and his mind on a goat...

Originally posted by Scythe
He's got a goat on his mind and his mind on a goat... Nah, I got a hole in my head and no one to fix it.

Originally posted by dadudemon







Indeed. None of the arrows would travel nearly as fast as a blaster bolt. Which is between 300-600 MPH, depending on which scene you want to look at. (You can look at the attack of the clones battle and some blaster bolts travel a few miles a second. Inconsistant. I use the Obi Wan versus Jang Fett Fight scene as the measure of speed.) Obviously the more powerful blaster bolts travel faster?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Nah, I got a hole in my head and no one to fix it.

I was referring to Sadako, not you...

My bad.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
At close range a few at a time, sure.

And likewise there were times like with the buzzdroids, where they couldn't...... I think we remember Anakin taking that machinery in the face on that conveyor line in AOTC...

Force pushes/pulls (especially paired with the muchly cited foresight could have saved many of the Jedi killed during the purge...but it didnt.)

That just doesnt wash as a bankable, useable inifinite times, infalibale tactic/ability..


Hey, if the Star Wars movie don't bother with worrying about consistency then we clearly don't have to either. There's no reason that i can see as to why the Jedi can't exploit their super powers all day and all night. The Persians have no defense what so ever against anything that the Jedi bring to the table (physically or supernatural).

Originally posted by Scythe
He's got a goat on his mind and his mind on a goat...

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Obviously the more powerful blaster bolts travel faster?

Well......the clone troopers WERE carrying those blaster rifles and not pistols...if I remember correctly, but that doesn't account for the droids firing just as fast. It would be another example of PIS. (Which is what I was hinting at.)

I think the bolt in the trash compactor was only traveling at 60MPH. Then, you have the miles a second speeds in AotC.

Well jedi master Yoda in the second movie can summon ships to the battle grounds and lightsabers VS. swords is just 100 to 1 in chances of winning. The jedi would definetley win.

I dont think ships are allowed here.

Completely off-topic: Chev Chelios reminds me of Hank from the Madness Combat flash series. The dude just won't die.

Yeah, i liked the F**k you..,what happened to it, Rj?

Originally posted by urikane
Well jedi master Yoda in the second movie can summon ships to the battle grounds and lightsabers VS. swords is just 100 to 1 in chances of winning. The jedi would definetley win.


Yoda can summon battleship

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Yoda can summon battleship

Well, why not? Captain Kirk used that little communicator thingie to say, "beam me in, Scottie." So why can't Yoda do something similar to teh bah uhl chips? AHA!

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Yeah, i liked the F**k you..,what happened to it, Rj? It'll be back

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, why not? Captain Kirk used that little communicator thingie to say, "beam me in, Scottie." So why can't Yoda do something similar to teh bah uhl chips? AHA!

Problem is that the GAR doesn't use "battleships". Heck, not even modern armies use it now.

Oh, and jedi win this. If they are allowed to use blasters:

They simply fire and run. Persians can't catch up because Jedi are faster, Persians can't counter blaster fire. Persians lose, 0 to minimal casualties for Jedi.

If not:

Xerxes sends in first wave, which would consist of mainly slaves and others with little will to fight. Yoda mind tricks them, or even might get them to worship Yoda and the Jedi as gods for their power. Yoda sends them back to tell Xerxes that Jedi are dead. They then stand behind their fellow Persians, and then ambush them. Many Persians die. Next wave is sent in, Jedi do same thing. Jedi win with minimal casualties.

Sidious was afraid to duel Yoda, as was anyone else who had had any sense, as would be the Persian Army after witnessing what he could to them. Xerxes might be worshipping the statue of an Imp.