No Kaioken then Gokou looses horribly. Vegeta was twice as powerful. Hence the reason for Kaioken x3. And Planet Vegeta was 10x Earth Gravity so it wouldn't be really a big deal to Vegeta since he grew up in it.
I'm going with..Vegeta. There is really nothing to say which was stronger.
Majin Vegeta and SSJ2 Vegeta were the same power. And both were even with ssj2 Gokou in power with Vegeta probably being slightly stronger. Gokou would probably come out on top but barley. Only because he's a better fighter.
1. Vegeta. Kaioken is what it took for Goku to gain the upper hand against Vegeta.
2. Tie or maybe Vegeta. I don't think Goku was stronger than Vegeta in the Androids/Cell saga until post-RST.
3 & 4 kind of go hand-in-hand, seeing as Majin Vegeta was SSJ2 during his fight with Goku. It's either that's how he attained SSJ2, or he acquired it through training post Cell saga. As shown, they were pretty much equally matched, although Goku was obviously holding back his full power.
Ultimately, I don't remember Goku ever training beyond 100x Earth's gravity, nor Vegeta beyond 300.
Originally posted by KentoAnd what exactly makes you think that?
Only because he's a better fighter.
1. Vegeta. Easily. He was more than twice as powerful.
2. Harder to say, we do not know how strong Goku would be without the virus, but based purely on showings, Vegeta.
3 and 4. They were virtually equal in every way.
Originally posted by Kento
I actually don't know.....
If you are talking about pure power, it is hard to say. Goku would obviously be more powerful at the end of Z due to SS3 which he pulled out of his ass.
When it comes to tactics/strategy, ruthlessness, or even perhaps training & determination, Vegeta is the better fighter.
Originally posted by Demonic PhoenixActually determination would go to Gokou in a fight. But I didn't mean pure power. I just always seee Gokou as the guy who trains to improve everything from skill to power while Vegeta trains just to become more powerful.
If you are talking about pure power, it is hard to say. Goku would obviously be more powerful at the end of Z due to SS3 which he pulled out of his ass.When it comes to tactics/strategy, ruthlessness, or even perhaps training & determination, Vegeta is the better fighter.
Originally posted by Kento
Actually determination would go to Gokou in a fight. But I didn't mean pure power. I just always seee Gokou as the guy who trains to improve everything from skill to power while Vegeta trains just to become more powerful.
I was actually talking about determination during training, I phrased it poorly.
Vegeta is actually better 'trainer' than Goku. He has also made up his own techniques, whereas Goku usually bases his major techniques upon pre-existing ones (Genki Dama, Kamehameha, IT, Kaio-ken).
Goku would frankly dick around in a fight, pardon my language. Vegeta would end it in a flash if he could.
Originally posted by NemeBro
One of the biggest problems I have with DBZ is how hard Vegeta trained, IMHO he trained far harder than Goku ever did, and was STILL always trailing behind.
Goku's the protagonist, hence he has PIS on his side. When both had SS2 as their limit, Vegeta was slightly better; then Goku pulls SS3 out of his ass and leaves Vegeta behind.
Originally posted by NemeBroMe too. It was kind of annoying.
One of the biggest problems I have with DBZ is how hard Vegeta trained, IMHO he trained far harder than Goku ever did, and was STILL always trailing behind.
Originally posted by Zack Fairperhaps.
Probably because of his inferiority complex.
Originally posted by First_Tsurugi06
1. Vegeta. Kaioken is what it took for Goku to gain the upper hand against Vegeta.2. Tie or maybe Vegeta. I don't think Goku was stronger than Vegeta in the Androids/Cell saga until post-RST.
3 & 4 kind of go hand-in-hand, seeing as Majin Vegeta was SSJ2 during his fight with Goku. It's either that's how he attained SSJ2, or he acquired it through training post Cell saga. As shown, they were pretty much equally matched, although Goku was obviously holding back his full power.
Ultimately, I don't remember Goku ever training beyond 100x Earth's gravity, nor Vegeta beyond 300.
vegeta trained at 450x gravity to reach super saiyan. saiyan saga goku trained on 50x at king kai's, may be less than that. and goku at super saiyan has trained when 4 ten ton weights at very fast speed in other world.
ss2 vegeta fought kid buu while majin vegeta fought with fat buu, they were on different levels. ss2 vegeta being stronger. ss2 goku held back on fighting majin vegeta because he didnt want buu awakened. so if ss2 goku cant beat majin vegeta then he loses the last one.
Re: Vegeta vs Goku
[1. Saiyan Saga (no kaoken or transformation)
Vegeta. Goku was only holding on due to Kaio-Ken
2. ssVegeta (first appearance) vs ssGoku (beginning of android saga without the heart virus)
Piccolo stated SSJ Vegeta was stronger IIRC
3. SS2Goku vs Majin Vegeta
Majin Vegeta has a slight edge
4. SS2Vegeta vs SS2Goku
I'd go with Goku. Vegeta felt he needed the Majin boost to beat him.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
[1. Saiyan Saga (no kaoken or transformation)Vegeta. Goku was only holding on due to Kaio-Ken
Piccolo stated SSJ Vegeta was stronger IIRC
Majin Vegeta has a slight edge
I'd go with Goku. Vegeta felt he needed the Majin boost to beat him.
vegeta was never ss2 until he fought kid buu.