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Enough with the fanboys or girls thoughts.... Name anyone that can fight at lightspeed or above With acceptable proof.... If undesputed proof is not presented, and more than three RESPECTABLE posters prove the said character cannot fight at those speeds.... then the character is eliminated from this discussion.... Remember... COMBAT SPEED..... This is a serious discussion so please dont leave any childish answers such as batman, hulk etc.

definately all the Flashs

(I hope your intend was doing something like thread to just collect the names of the one that truly are at FTL)

EDIT: Zoom, Zum (<- name correct? the white martian), Speed Demon

Flash, Superman, Silver Surfer...



















And Hulk...

Runner.

Monica Rambeau

Originally posted by Parmaniac
definately all the Flashs

(I hope your intend was doing something like thread to just collect the names of the one that truly are at FTL) Yes, i just want to know the true FTL fighters so that i can match them up against each others without people saying that one cannot do it and the other can.

EDIT: Zoom, Zum (<- name correct? the white martian), Speed Demon

Originally posted by Master Court
Flash, Superman, Silver Surfer... You need proof for Superman and Surfer because they have been desputed by other posters before.









So has Hulk..









And Hulk...

Prime, Flashes, and Runner
Superman can probably do it to.

Dont forget Glads!

Vulcan and Sentry

Nobody's forgetting Gladiator. He's just not included in the category.

Originally posted by Peterlane
Vulcan and Sentry

Gladiator

Prime, Supes, Flashes, Surfer, Herald Nova, Runner and Gladiator

Anyone from mid herald and up, barring a couple of exceptions.

Originally posted by Peterlane
Vulcan and Sentry ......... PROOF PLEASE.

zoom
savitar
krakkyl
the flashes
black racer
superman
swamp thing
firestorm
etc.

anyone that has fought superman or out reflex the flashes,,, power by association..

blob

rhino

grundy

king pin

runner is makkari right?..........yeah i'd agree then.

Originally posted by namorsubby
runner is makkari right?..........yeah i'd agree then.

Nah thats a different dude. Runner was the elder who had the speed gem for a time. But even without it he seemed to be moving at lightspeed.

Makkari guy in a eternal. He is damn fast to but idk much about him.

Northstar.

Originally posted by Galan007
superman

http://pigeonhole.com.au/news/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/blog_highfive.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007
firestorm

...

Zeus
Hermis

This isn't a vs thread? I mean the op is asking us to provide on panel proof of ftl (faster than light) combat speeds?
I love surfer but when he travels ftl he has to enter another dimension to do it...

I'd say all flash types. Black flash zoom...
And while makarri, runner etc have speeds of travel ftl I don't remember anything saying their combat speeds were that fast... Although runner beating on thanos was with the space gem so there's no telling...

Northstar can attain lightspeed but I don't know of him actually being faster than light...

Even superman throwing down a billion punches a second doesn't mean he broke lightspeed... But that he approached lightspeed....

I think makarri was the one that one that intergalactic race a few years back... Against the marvel flash clone. It's been a long while but iirc the runner was involved in that race too

Originally posted by Philosophía
... wut?

thor can throw pies at light speed. does that count?

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
thor can throw pies at light speed. does that count?

Balder's kryptonite.

Originally posted by Galan007
wut? when has Firestorm fought at lightspeed?

Didn't Wonder Woman lasso somebody at > lightspeed? Or am I remembering the feat wrong? Either way, she probably has feats to argue that she could.

Originally posted by rotiart
This isn't a vs thread? I mean the op is asking us to provide on panel proof of ftl (faster than light) combat speeds?
I love surfer but when he travels ftl he has to enter another dimension to do it...

Not true.

http://img268.imageshack.us/i/ss1sgr.jpg/
http://img17.imageshack.us/i/ss2yty.jpg/
http://img17.imageshack.us/i/ss3mvu.jpg/
http://img268.imageshack.us/i/ss4hen.jpg/

Surfer and BRB fighting alongside BRB's ship while it is moving faster than light.

Which part isn't true. The part where the op says reputable posters may only prove who has ftl combat feats.

Or that surfer does enter into hyperspace when traveling ftl.

no one will believe you if it dont show individual body part after images and stating in each panel they are fighting faster then light.. moving at ftl speeds alongside a ship and fighting not the same as ftl fight per DC characters... you fail..


you need to show point of reference and time it takes to reach another celestial body...

just like supe did when he went from earth to uranus when lex was declared president..

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
no one will believe you if it dont show individual body part after images and stating in each panel they are fighting faster then light.. moving at ftl speeds alongside a ship and fighting not the same as ftl fight per DC characters... you fail..


you need to show point of reference and time it takes to reach another celestial body...

just like supe did when he went from earth to uranus when lex was declared president..

It took no more than a few hours to cross interstellar distance. That is confirmed FTL.

Where did it say how fast they were travelling endless mike. More of a question really as I couldn't find it in your posts?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
It took no more than a few hours to cross interstellar distance. That is confirmed FTL.

see what i mean? look up at the post. above this one. ^

Originally posted by Original Smurph
when has Firestorm fought at lightspeed? in an older JLA issue he slapped around flash, by transforming himself into light particles.

If it was only at lightspeed it would have taken years. The nearest star is 4 light-years away from us. They were traveling between star systems and it took a few hours at the very most (we could really say it took just a few minutes since we see BRB's ship leaving the planet, Galactus telling Surfer to go after it, Surfer chasing, BRB and Surfer facing off and fighting, and right afterwards they enter a minefield on the outskirts of the second planetary system and then reach it). If you think that took years you're crazy

Travel speed vs combat speed. Are we assuming they are the same thing? If they are fighting in hyperspace which allows ftl travel... Is that assumed ftl combat speed also. ( I'm not saying that's what mimes showing. Looking for a general consensus.)

for example... If scuttlebutt opened a rip in space to travel.. And yu were carried along it's wake while fighting someone else... Which is what the scan almost seems to show... Does that then count as ftl combat

That fight between BRB and SS should not be considered FTL.

surfer/thor/brb

have all displayed FTL reflexes. just because they dont blur their arms like DC and other char do doesnt mean they cant...

SS can react move stop swerve at ftl speeds... but ppl argue he cant fight because he doesnt move portions of his body at ftl speed. but the thing is he is moving his entire body at those speeds and figting at those speeds..

same with thor and BRB... they all fly react and move at ftl speeds... they can see ftl object rather casually and smack them down to the ground with their hammers like its nothing..

they can fly at ftl speeds and exchange attack but ppl say they cant fight at ftl speeds b/c body parts arent drawn in blurs and after images like some other char.. and when they do ppl argue how do we know it was ftl speed.

if we apply albert eistien theory they are fighting at ftl speeds but it is a different frame of reference.. two objects moving at those speeds are exchanging ftl punches but to them its just normal equivalent time frame punches. both are reacting at ftl.

what flash does when he moves portions of his body at ftl speeds is cool to ppl who cant keep up with his speed and are seeing him from another point of reference but to another person with equal ability those punches would appear normal speed and if they were fighting and running at ftl those flurry of punches would not be moving ftl independent from their own frame of reference.

hope i didnt confuse anyone here.

Of course it's FTL. They were dodging, attacking, and circling around each other while keeping pace with the ship.

Let me ask you something, if I fired a bullet at faster than the speed of sound, and two guys were running circles around it while attacking and dodging each other before it reached the target, how does that not make them fighting faster than sound?

Same principle here, except replace sound with light

Lightray can easily.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
That fight between BRB and SS should not be considered FTL.

Why not? They were clearly fighting, moving and reacting at speeds faster than light if we use the ship as a reference point which was moving faster than light.

did anyone understand my post?

Originally posted by Galan007
zoom
savitar
krakkyl
the flashes
black racer
superman
swamp thing
firestorm
etc. Swamp Thing?

Can someone provide proof that Supes, Gladiator, Sentry, can fight at light speed bc I dont think either of them can fight past the speed of sound.

Originally posted by Merlyn
Swamp Thing? yep:
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/speed1.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/speed2.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Can someone provide proof that Supes, Gladiator, Sentry, can fight at light speed bc I dont think either of them can fight past the speed of sound.


Sentry? Considering he's like a failed clone of Superman, you have to assume Marvel wants him at lightspeed.


Or, wait, that depends on if Superman is lightspeed...

look as far as taht scan goes this is all i see. there is a green field around the entire ship. the ship itself may or maynot be travelling ftl. assuming it is. surfer and brb appear to be fighting within the green field. therefore they are being both carried along inside the ship itself and relatively... are not fighting faster than light.

Originally posted by Galan007
yep:
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/speed1.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/speed2.jpg Bah, I should have figured. Swamp Thing has done everything, it seems.

Originally posted by rotiart
look as far as taht scan goes this is all i see. there is a green field around the entire ship. the ship itself may or maynot be travelling ftl. assuming it is. surfer and brb appear to be fighting within the green field. therefore they are being both carried along inside the ship itself and relatively... are not fighting faster than light.

That green thing was a Force Field created by Beta Ray Bill against Surfer's attacks. Once he gets up close, it obviously disappears, and Silver Surfer and Beta Ray Bill aren't shown to be fighting on the ship. Hell, Beta Ray Bill's initial, blow, smashes him into the side exterior of the ship.

They were fighting and keeping up at faster than light speeds.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That green thing was a Force Field created by Beta Ray Bill against Surfer's attacks. Once he gets up close, it obviously disappears, and Silver Surfer and Beta Ray Bill aren't shown to be fighting on the ship. Hell, Beta Ray Bill's initial, blow, smashes him into the side exterior of the ship.

They were fighting and keeping up at faster than light speeds.

which is part of my argument that they are being carried by the wake of the ship.

to me it looks like brb is standing on the ship.. surfer rushes to him. brb hits surfer and knocks him into the side of the ship. brb. goes and gets hit off the ship.. and then is floating in space with surfer. thats like the second to last issue of the godslayer series right?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Of course it's FTL. They were dodging, attacking, and circling around each other while keeping pace with the ship.

Let me ask you something, if I fired a bullet at faster than the speed of sound, and two guys were running circles around it while attacking and dodging each other before it reached the target, how does that not make them fighting faster than sound?

Same principle here, except replace sound with light That sounds logical. But I think your perspective is a bit off. See if you agree with this: That fight scene between Surfer and BRB is analogous to Nascar drivers weaving in and between each other all while moving their hands for steering/shifting. Now, technically, their hands are moving faster than 100+ mph relative to a stationary point on the track. But with respect to each other and themselves, their hands aren't moving 100+ mph.
Originally posted by rotiart
which is part of my argument that they are being carried by the wake of the ship. While possible, they aren't necessarily being carried by the wake of the ship. There is nothing on-panel that suggests that. But either way, I agree with your conclusion simply because fighting while travelling at light speeds+, doesn't necessarily equate to FTL reflexes. Same as a driver on a Nascar raceway isn't moving his hands for steering/shifting at 100+ mph.

Originally posted by Galan007
yep:
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/speed1.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/speed2.jpg That scene looks to me like Swamp Thing converted himself into, or travelled at the speed of, light to escape the xray field. No?
Originally posted by carver9
Can someone provide proof that Supes, Gladiator, Sentry, can fight at light speed bc I dont think either of them can fight past the speed of sound. I've not seen Supes or Sentry do it. I'm positive they can fight far faster than the speed of sound though. This is proof that Gladiator can fight at light speed:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/th_gladiatorvshyperion049nv.jpg

Light travels approximately one foot in one nanosecond. If Gladiator punches towards Hyperion, and from that position Hyperion counter-punches and Gladiator catches the punch, all in the space of nanoseconds, their hands must be moving at lightspeeds.

How you been man? Been a while.

Good. Lot of stuff been going on so I didn't come on the boards for a while. You?

ODG you need to come on more.

And you need to stay off more.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Good. Lot of stuff been going on so I didn't come on the boards for a while. You?

Meh, just school. Staying for one more semester. Managing a social life and work is a *****. I barely go on anymore. Honestly, I almost stopped reading comics.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And you need to stay off more.



Meh, just school. Staying for one more semester. Managing a social life and work is a *****. I barely go on anymore. Honestly, I almost stopped reading comics. Stay off these nuts, queerbait.

Originally posted by Mindset
Stay off these nuts, queerbait.

What nuts?

^ Ah. Good to see KMC hasn't changed much.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What nuts? The ones in your mouth, obviously.

Originally posted by rotiart


Or that surfer does enter into hyperspace when traveling ftl.
This part. most of his FTL feats he didnt enter hyperspace to do them. Just look at his IG feat.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That scene looks to me like Swamp Thing converted himself into, or travelled at the speed of, light to escape the xray field. No?
I've not seen Supes or Sentry do it. I'm positive they can fight far faster than the speed of sound though. This is proof that Gladiator can fight at light speed:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/th_gladiatorvshyperion049nv.jpg

Light travels approximately one foot in one nanosecond. If Gladiator punches towards Hyperion, and from that position Hyperion counter-punches and Gladiator catches the punch, all in the space of nanoseconds, their hands must be moving at lightspeeds.

I've not seen supes or sentry do it either but I was hoping someone provided some kind of proof (I was going to make this thread today, i hate you jame, just playing).

I believe glads can do it also because I have scans of him fighting near light speed but he's about the only one that I can of that actually have any kind of proof that he can move that fast in the high herald category.

The only reason I asked for scans is because people was just screaming out names when 90% of the people that was named has no sign of fighting NEAR that speed.

Originally posted by Mindset
The ones in your mouth, obviously.

I can't think of anything right now to tired, ya ***.

http://www.nataliedee.com/071506/popsicle-insertion.jpg

The highest of the high heralds should be able to do it or have already done it. Superman, Norrin, Bill, probably Thor too. Plus several others i'd say...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That scene looks to me like Swamp Thing converted himself into, or travelled at the speed of, light to escape the xray field. No? correct.

and because he attacked, and subsequently downed, superman immediately after having assumed that 'form' - i'd think it could certainly be viewed as an battle/fight.

^ Well... then it isn't really a combat speed feat. He just accelerated to light speed into his eye. It's really a travelling speed feat, no?

i'm sticking with it being a battle feat.

^ dots

Originally posted by carver9
I've not seen supes or sentry do it either but I was hoping someone provided some kind of proof (I was going to make this thread today, i hate you jame, just playing).

I believe glads can do it also because I have scans of him fighting near light speed but he's about the only one that I can of that actually have any kind of proof that he can move that fast in the high herald category.

The only reason I asked for scans is because people was just screaming out names when 90% of the people that was named has no sign of fighting NEAR that speed. LOL.. I beat you to it ... But like you said.... people are claiming characters without an ounce of acceptable proof... Someone showed nice proof of glads and questionable proof of surfer and bill.

Aurora (Ultimate Universe)
Aurora (Children of the Vault upgrade)
Northstar (Children of the Vault upgrade)

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That sounds logical. But I think your perspective is a bit off. See if you agree with this: That fight scene between Surfer and BRB is analogous to Nascar drivers weaving in and between each other all while moving their hands for steering/shifting. Now, technically, their hands are moving faster than 100+ mph relative to a stationary point on the track. But with respect to each other and themselves, their hands aren't moving 100+ mph.

Hmm i see what ur saying, but let me throw an alternative explanation out there. I think that the nascar example would be more similar to a situation in which BRB and surfer were simply weaving in an out between each other. (however even then much higher reactions are needed to actually physically navigate urself while propelling urself at high speeds than it would take when using a vehicle but thats not the point). If we look at the scan in which surfer attacks the hull of the ship we see that he shoots two quick blasts at the ship which bounce of the forcefield. What i think is relevant to note here is that surfer fires of the two blasts in quick succession and the fact that he is in relatively the same position when the attacks are launched and the fact that the ship is in relatively the same position as well. Therefore assuming that surfer aimed at the top of the ship first (it really doesnt matter where he aimed first) and the bottom second, we have surfer blasting once towards the top and then immediately changing direction and blasting again towards the bottom while both he and the ship which are bothmoving FTL are relatively in the same position. In other words what surfer did was equivalent to him standing in one position and being able to quickly launch and connect two attacks in different directions (on the upper part and lower part) on an object moving past him at FTL speeds at the specific point in time that it passes infront of him. Another thing relevant here is the fact that the attacks involvede two quick motions before either surfer or the ship had advanced (they were moving ftl). Also i think it should be noted that surfer blasts themselves had to have been moving at similar speeds or they wouldnt have been able to hit the ship at all.

Then in regards to BRB, he in essence reacted to a FTL bullrush from surfer as he is able to knock surfer off his board when surfer charges at him. Hence he is able to swing his hammer and connect with an onrushing FTL target.

There's also the Quasar/Surfer instance, where Beta Ray Bill, tracks the faster than light Surfer as I recall.

Originally posted by james2099
LOL.. I beat you to it ... But like you said.... people are claiming characters without an ounce of acceptable proof... Someone showed nice proof of glads and questionable proof of surfer and bill.


Agreed. The glass pic is a clear proof pic of ftl combat feat...
The bill/surfer pic is not.

Originally posted by rotiart
which is part of my argument that they are being carried by the wake of the ship.

Where do we see that?

Sentry and Vulcan

I think what people are ignoring is the part where you see the trail made by the ship, as well as the trail made by Surfer, and Surfer's trail is spiraling around the ship, effectively running rings around it. If that is not FTL maneuvering I do not know what is

Also Superman fought Wonder Woman nearly to the sun and back in 1 minute and 54 seconds in the Sacrifice arc, light takes 8 minutes to reach earth from the sun.

Space flight; it was already depicted by writers that Supes can fly in space at the speed of light (Mcduffie).

Theres no suggestion that 90% the people that was brought up on this thread can fight even close to the speed of light.

Can someone show some kind of proof like one dumb did?

Originally posted by carver9
Space flight; it was already depicted by writers that Supes can fly in space at the speed of light (Mcduffie).

The only reason he doesn't fly at lightspeed or above on earth is because he would **** up the planet.



I already did. Although considering you are a Gladiator fanboy it seems you would accept evidence for him but ignore it for other characters

Originally posted by carver9
Space flight; it was already depicted by writers that Supes can fly in space at the speed of light (Mcduffie).

Theres no suggestion that 90% the people that was brought up on this thread can fight even close to the speed of light.

Can someone show some kind of proof like one dumb did?

it was stated AND shown LONG before mcduffie.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
The only reason he doesn't fly at lightspeed or above on earth is because he would **** up the planet.



I already did. Although considering you are a Gladiator fanboy it seems you would accept evidence for him but ignore it for other characters

But captain marvel flew on earth at light speed and black adam went mach 500 on earth.

That not even including how fast black mary went on earth.

I'm not going to lie, I do love glads but if you look at my previous post, I said he couldnt fight at light speed but I do think he could fly at those speeds. I dont think he can fight anywhere close to those speeds.

Originally posted by -Pr-
it was stated AND shown LONG before mcduffie.

What was stated and shown?

Originally posted by carver9
But captain marvel flew on earth at light speed and black adam went mach 500 on earth.

That not even including how fast black mary went on earth.

I'm not going to lie, I do love glads but if you look at my previous post, I said he couldnt fight at light speed but I do think he could fly at those speeds. I dont think he can fight anywhere close to those speeds.

captain marvel's powers are magical, and superman ran faster than mach 500. you know this.

Originally posted by carver9
What was stated and shown?

in countdown, JLElite, Sacrifice, etc.

Originally posted by -Pr-
captain marvel's powers are magical, and superman ran faster than mach 500. you know this.



in countdown, JLElite, Sacrifice, etc.

I agree but that alone should rip up an environment so that statement that was brought up years ago shouldnt apply since supes along with other people have broken that rule.

When black adam, captain marvel, etc... fly at those speeds they create sonics booms also. Hell, black adam flew so fast that it destroyed everything behind him so what point were you trying to make with them being magical?

Originally posted by carver9
I agree but that alone should rip up an environment so that statement that was brought up years ago shouldnt apply since supes along with other people have broken that rule.

When black adam, captain marvel, etc... fly at those speeds they create sonics booms also. Hell, black adam flew so fast that it destroyed everything behind him so what point were you trying to make with them being magical?

that's writer error more than anything.

again, it's writer error. when superman was chasing wally, he should have wrecked every city he ran through, but he didn't. yet in other issues it's been stated that he can only go so fast without causing irreperable damage. it's writer error.

it doesnt take away from the character's ability to move at said speeds.

Originally posted by -Pr-
that's writer error more than anything.

again, it's writer error. when superman was chasing wally, he should have wrecked every city he ran through, but he didn't. yet in other issues it's been stated that he can only go so fast without causing irreperable damage. it's writer error.

it doesnt take away from the character's ability to move at said speeds.


I agree with that but Superman only light speed showing is in space just like gladiator, Sentry, Ms. Marvel, beta ray bill, hell, even rogue has a light speed showing in space.

Its kind of hard to fuss with writers when they tell you that a character can go a certain speed. I even put up a scan a couple of month back from the infinite crisis writer telling you about superman speed; its just up to you all to accept it or not.

Originally posted by carver9
But captain marvel flew on earth at light speed

When was this?



Mach 500 <<<<<<<< Lightspeed.

Lightspeed is around mach 870,000

I think you simply don't realize how fast it is.



You mean in Countdown? I don't recall her speed ever being quantifiable there.



He can react at that speed, which is all that is needed. Being able to fight at a certain speed consists of only 3 things, really

1. Being able to move fast enough to keep up with your opponent. This is what we call travel speed.

2. Being able to perceive your opponent and his attacks. This is sensory/information processing speed

3. Being able to move change direction/move parts of your body fast enough to dodge/block your opponents' attacks and counterattack. This is called reaction speed.

2 and 3 almost always come packaged together. You'll rarely see 1 without 2 and 3 either. Often you'll see 2 and 3 without 1, though.

Superman has demonstrated all 3 on levels faster than light.

McDuffie said that Superman can go faster than light with hyperspace. That doesn't contradict any claims here.

As for going faster than light on earth, the Flashes and Zoom or people with similar powers are the only ones who do that routinely.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree with that but Superman only light speed showing is in space just like gladiator, Sentry, Ms. Marvel, beta ray bill, hell, even rogue has a light speed showing in space.

Its kind of hard to fuss with writers when they tell you that a character can go a certain speed. I even put up a scan a couple of month back from the infinite crisis writer telling you about superman speed; its just up to you all to accept it or not.

the ability to fly at lightspeed isn't specifically bound to space or earth. superman has gone multiple times the speed of light in space. it stands to reason that if he wanted to, travelling at the speed of light in the atmosphere would be no trouble at all.

what scan? the wizard one that was incorrect in referencing the actual comic it got its source from?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
When was this?



Mach 500 <<<<<<<< Lightspeed.

Lightspeed is around mach 870,000

I think you simply don't realize how fast it is.



You mean in Countdown? I don't recall her speed ever being quantifiable there.



He can react at that speed, which is all that is needed. Being able to fight at a certain speed consists of only 3 things, really

1. Being able to move fast enough to keep up with your opponent. This is what we call travel speed.

2. Being able to perceive your opponent and his attacks. This is sensory/information processing speed

3. Being able to move change direction/move parts of your body fast enough to dodge/block your opponents' attacks and counterattack. This is called reaction speed.

2 and 3 almost always come packaged together. You'll rarely see 1 without 2 and 3 either. Often you'll see 2 and 3 without 1, though.

Superman has demonstrated all 3 on levels faster than light.

McDuffie said that Superman can go faster than light with hyperspace. That doesn't contradict any claims here.

As for going faster than light on earth, the Flashes and Zoom or people with similar powers are the only ones who do that routinely.

I know how fast the speed of light is, 186000 mps. I brought up black adams feat because it was suppose to destroy everything around him going that fast, I wasnt comparing his feat to the speed of light.

Superman admitted more than once that earths atmosphere take its toll on his powers so what are you talking about?

Hell, KC superman had to make a device so that 10 earth gravity would have a effect on him or his powers.

Originally posted by -Pr-
the ability to fly at lightspeed isn't specifically bound to space or earth. superman has gone multiple times the speed of light in space. it stands to reason that if he wanted to, travelling at the speed of light in the atmosphere would be no trouble at all.

what scan? the wizard one that was incorrect in referencing the actual comic it got its source from?

I know he can go that fast in space, thats not the argument, the argument is him going that fast in an environment with air which he hasnt shown yet.

Originally posted by carver9
I know he can go that fast in space, thats not the argument, the argument is him going that fast in an environment with air which he hasnt shown yet.

because he would theoretically cause massive damage. it's intentional. he even told lois that he slows down so that he wouldn't cause too much damage.

there's nothing unique about the earth that would affect superman's powers or weaken him.

Originally posted by -Pr-
because he would theoretically cause massive damage. it's intentional. he even told lois that he slows down so that he wouldn't cause too much damage.

there's nothing unique about the earth that would affect superman's powers or weaken him.

Why did superman himself state that earth enviroment takes it toll on his powers?

Originally posted by carver9
Why did superman himself state that earth enviroment takes it toll on his powers?

in what issue?

Originally posted by -Pr-
in what issue?

His training with mongul

Originally posted by carver9
His training with mongul

can you be more specific? i just looked and couldn't see any mention of it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
can you be more specific? i just looked and couldn't see any mention of it.

his training with mongul in the imperex saga.

Originally posted by carver9
his training with mongul in the imperex saga.

i looked through the three issues of Superman v2. i couldn't find any mention of it. Maybe i missed it...

Makkari

Lucky Luke

Originally posted by Endless Mike
It took no more than a few hours to cross interstellar distance. That is confirmed FTL.

Fighting while traveling isn't considered fighting at lightspeed or above.
For example, we're moving faster than a bullet now on Earth and yet if we fight are we fighting at bullet speed or above? No.

Once a top speed is reached (terminal velocity) it is as if one is motionless.


Fighting at lightspeed means:

reacting to "relative" light speed attacks, instantly throwing "relative to another" lightspeed attacks, and accelerating to lightspeed when fighting within standard fighting distance.

Originally posted by h1a8
reacting to "relative" light speed attacks, instantly throwing "relative to another" lightspeed attacks, and accelerating to lightspeed when fighting within standard fighting distance.

So basically what Norrin and Bill were doing.

Originally posted by h1a8
Fighting while traveling isn't considered fighting at lightspeed or above.
For example, we're moving faster than a bullet now on Earth and yet if we fight are we fighting at bullet speed or above? No.


You aren't moving at speed relative to Earth...

Anyway, my theory on this topic is:

Light speed runners, can definitely fight at light speed because they are already moving their limbs fast enough to accelerate them to FTL speed.

So obviously Flash is an example. More importantly, while I don't know if Superman can run at light speed, but he is a quick runner, which also means he can fight at lets say "at least high speeds".

Flying quickly, however is entirely different - its not proof that one can fight at the same speeds. Although it should be noted that if they can navigate at light speeds, it means they are able to perceive things at light speeds. Whether or not they can move their bodies/limbs at high speeds is unknown unless shown in some other way.

Originally posted by Placidity
Although it should be noted that if they can navigate at light speeds, it means they are able to perceive things at light speeds. Whether or not they can move their bodies/limbs at high speeds is unknown unless shown in some other way.

Something Thor also does.

His most common way of steering Mjolnir, is by physically moving his arm to change directions etc. The fact that he can use this method while flying at speeds well over light speed shows how much reflexes/reaction time he possesses.

Originally posted by h1a8



Fighting at lightspeed means:

reacting to "relative" light speed attacks, instantly throwing "relative to another" lightspeed attacks, and accelerating to lightspeed when fighting within standard fighting distance.

IN order to react to norrins FTL bullrush, bill needed to first be able to perceive him and then move his limbs at comparable speeds and hit him with storm breaker. Further, norrin was able to launch and land two attacks on the ship while both he and the ship (which were both moving FTL) were in relatively the same position . Hence he was able to deliver two quick movements before either he or the ship advanced any noticeable distance forward. In order to do that, the speed of his hand movements would have to be similar to the speed of his forward movement.

Being able to fight at lightspeed means being able to perceive what is happening with some form of FTL energy (otherwise, attack and reaction are equally paced). Some characters (eg, Surfer, Strange) likely have access to such otherwordly energies, given their open/versatile powersets. But someone with a closed/well-defined powerset (eg, Superman): even if they can move FTL, how do they perceive FTL movements since light itself isn't fast enough to deliver info of the impending attack? What are they perceiving?

Surfer, Makkari, Flashes, Prime, Runner, Fallen One, Superman, Gladiator, etc.

Kingpin

No one that has been mentioned (except flash) has any showings of fighting at light speed. No one has provided any kind of proof for the characters that they named.

Since we're basically throwing out our favorite characters name that has shown some type of speed during combat, let me scream out one of my favorite characters that has blitzed. Wolverine can fight at the speed of light, he has dodge lasers, bullets, and cykes blast with ease. ; )

Originally posted by Mindship
Being able to fight at lightspeed means being able to perceive what is happening with some form of FTL energy (otherwise, attack and reaction are equally paced). Some characters (eg, Surfer, Strange) likely have access to such otherwordly energies, given their open/versatile powersets. But someone with a closed/well-defined powerset (eg, Superman): even if they can move FTL, how do they perceive FTL movements since light itself isn't fast enough to deliver info of the impending attack? What are they perceiving? How does Superman hear someone in deep space from the comfort of his own bed?

plot

Originally posted by Juntai
How does Superman hear someone in deep space from the comfort of his own bed? Well, PC Supes...

Originally posted by Mindship
Well, PC Supes... Current Superman can and has.

It was said if Superman squints he can see the edge of the Universe a couple of years ago. Do you really think his vision is entirely dependent upon light hitting the retina?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So basically what Norrin and Bill were doing.

If Norrin's blasts travels at the speed of light then yes. But that is only one of the stipulations of fighting at light speed or beyond. The other two have to be followed as well or it is void.

Originally posted by Placidity
You aren't moving at speed relative to Earth...

Anyway, my theory on this topic is:

Light speed runners, can definitely fight at light speed because they are already moving their limbs fast enough to accelerate them to FTL speed.

So obviously Flash is an example. More importantly, while I don't know if Superman can run at light speed, but he is a quick runner, which also means he can fight at lets say "at least high speeds".

Flying quickly, however is entirely different - its not proof that one can fight at the same speeds. Although it should be noted that if they can navigate at light speeds, it means they are able to perceive things at light speeds. Whether or not they can move their bodies/limbs at high speeds is unknown unless shown in some other way.

Your latter theory is false; moving at x speed doesn't mean one can react to x speed from y distance away. Space is a large place, so that moving at light speed one will still have plenty of time to dodge stars, planets, etc. Hell it takes 8 minutes to reach the Sun traveling at light speed. I'll have all day to manuever out of the way of the Sun with only human reflexes.


Also fighting a light speed entails:

1. Reacting to 'relative' light speed attacks from attack distance. Relative means "the attack is moving at light speed to a stationary observer".

2. Being able to accelerate to light speed within battle distance. Not after many miles of travel.

3. Moving the limbs and torso at lightspeed.

Originally posted by h1a8
If Norrin's blasts travels at the speed of light then yes. But that is only one of the stipulations of fighting at light speed or beyond. The other two have to be followed as well or it is void.



Your latter theory is false; moving at x speed doesn't mean one can react to x speed from y distance away. Space is a large place, so that moving at light speed one will still have plenty of time to dodge stars, planets, etc. Hell it takes 8 minutes to reach the Sun traveling at light speed. I'll have all day to manuever out of the way of the Sun with only human reflexes.


Also fighting a light speed entails:

1. Reacting to 'relative' light speed attacks from attack distance. Relative means "the attack is moving at light speed to a stationary observer".

2. Being able to accelerate to light speed within battle distance. Not after many miles of travel.

3. Moving the limbs and torso at lightspeed.

I never agreed with h1a8 before but this one is nothing but the truth.

Originally posted by h1a8

Your latter theory is false; moving at x speed doesn't mean one can react to x speed from y distance away. Space is a large place, so that moving at light speed one will still have plenty of time to dodge stars, planets, etc. Hell it takes 8 minutes to reach the Sun traveling at light speed. I'll have all day to manuever out of the way of the Sun with only human reflexes.


Sorry, latter theory is not false. If you were travelling at light speed to the sun, you couldn't move out of the way to dodge anything because you wouldn't be able to perceive anything at that speed, or your perception would be greatly distorted. And what you are kind of saying is backing up what I said - Light Speed flying travelers can perceive things at the same relative speed, but does not mean they can fight at the same speed.

Originally posted by Placidity
Sorry, latter theory is not false. If you were travelling at light speed to the sun, you couldn't move out of the way to dodge anything because you wouldn't be able to perceive anything at that speed, or your perception would be greatly distorted. And what you are kind of saying is backing up what I said - Light Speed flying travelers can perceive things at the same relative speed, but does not mean they can fight at the same speed.

Why couldn't I perceive anything? If I'm traveling towards the Sun and its light is traveling towards me then I can see it. I can understand if I'm traveling away from the light. But this is comics and where the suspension of disbelief places a role. Otherwise no one who uses light to see can perceive anything behind them traveling at light speed or beyond in comics. In comics, light is not constant but relative.

Originally posted by Juntai
It was said if Superman squints he can see the edge of the Universe a couple of years ago. Do you really think his vision is entirely dependent upon light hitting the retina?

I propose that -- unless specifically stated otherwise (eg, Flash / speedforce) -- FTL characters have senses and nervous systems which can perceive/utilize tachyons.

This is why Supes can know what's happening a billion lightyears away while he's boinking Lois.

Originally posted by carver9 I know how fast the speed of light is, 186000 mps. I brought up black adams feat because it was suppose to destroy everything around him going that fast, I wasnt comparing his feat to the speed of light.

Actually, 186,282.397 miles per second.



I don't recall this being stated anywhere.



What?

BTW I can show you chronologically early Post-Crisis Superman only slightly inconvenienced by black hole level gravity while on earth.

i looked through the three issues of Superman v2. i couldn't find any mention of it. Maybe i missed it...

He probably just made it up. He's known to do that.



Only because everything else in our reference frame is moving at the same speed. Like I said, it's more comparable to someone firing a bullet and two guys running circles around it inflight while fighting each other.



Terminal velocity only applies in an atmosphere.



They were keeping pace with the ship itself while it was moving FTL, and doing complicate maneuvers while following it.



Superman has shown the ability to see to the edge of the universe with his powers, and see things moving in real-time from light-years away. Just chalk it up to "super sensory powers".



Yes they have. You are just ignoring it.



Not actual lasers, bullets are nowhere near lightspeed, and Cyclops' blasts vary in speed. In addition, you would need to show scans of the attacks actually heading towards him, then him moving or reacting afterwards to deflect them, otherwise it can be attributed to aimdodging.



They were obviously traveling much faster than light, because otherwise when he fired his blast during the pursuit of BRB, it would not go ahead of him and actually appear to move backwards and hit him, since he himself was moving faster than light.



We're not talking about the sun, we're talking about a spaceship that is actively maneuvering and a guy who is not only maneuvering but trying to attack you and dodge your attacks.

Really the nitpicking here is ridiculous. We have people crossing distances in a shorter time than light would take, and fighting each other while doing so. That is all that is required.

Green Arrow
























flirt

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Superman has shown the ability to see to the edge of the universe with his powers, and see things moving in real-time from light-years away. Just chalk it up to "super sensory powers".Consider it chalked.

Really the nitpicking here is ridiculous. But sometimes fun.

Reacting and fighting at FTL is just plain retarded. I don't mind characters moving at FTL, but being consciously attuned to these speeds is beyond ridiculous. IMO its as stupid as continuous errors that frequently occur pre 1985 when comics seemed to grow up a little. Stuff like sneezing a solar system a way come to mind. I'm not saying that thinking/fighting at FTL it isn't valid in comics, but as I an intelligent person tend to ignore it. Obviously the rules of general relativity just don't apply to comics, and there is no cosmic speed limit. this should create all the meta physical paradoxes solved by general relativity ... but who cares its a comic???IMO its bad writing to adopt the "anything goes" policy, however no one on this forum seems to care.

I think its ironic though that the same people get irate about the "bad writing" incurred when established power levels are ignored. I suppose its "OK" to ignore logical rules in some circumstances, and not in others??? Its only going to be a matter of time before White is simultaneously black, and triangles have four sides, but its ok as long as Thor beat the Thing ???!!!

Originally posted by Mindship
I propose that -- unless specifically stated otherwise (eg, Flash / speedforce) -- FTL characters have senses and nervous systems which can perceive/utilize tachyons.

This is why Supes can know what's happening a billion lightyears away while he's boinking Lois.



I had an idea for a Super hero who utilized tachyons to give himself a whole host of Superpowers; A long time ago in a far away universe. But thats all im sharing.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
I think its ironic though that the same people get irate about the "bad writing" incurred when established power levels are ignored. I suppose its "OK" to ignore logical rules in some circumstances, and not in others???
It's accepted by most people that real life physics tend to go out the window in most comics. If you cannot deal with that, I suggest giving up comics right away.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Reacting and fighting at FTL is just plain retarded.
I think it's DC's fault. They had the uber characters, and when the crossovers began, Marvel had to catch up. Now everyone's playing one-upmanship with everyone else.

FTL h2h is a lil' over the top, I agree, but it's right in keeping with spandex and outside underwear.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Reacting and fighting at FTL is just plain retarded. I don't mind characters moving at FTL, but being consciously attuned to these speeds is beyond ridiculous. IMO its as stupid as continuous errors that frequently occur pre 1985 when comics seemed to grow up a little. Stuff like sneezing a solar system a way come to mind. I'm not saying that thinking/fighting at FTL it isn't valid in comics, but as I an intelligent person tend to ignore it. Obviously the rules of general relativity just don't apply to comics, and there is no cosmic speed limit. this should create all the meta physical paradoxes solved by general relativity ... but who cares its a comic???IMO its bad writing to adopt the "anything goes" policy, however no one on this forum seems to care.

I think its ironic though that the same people get irate about the "bad writing" incurred when established power levels are ignored. I suppose its "OK" to ignore logical rules in some circumstances, and not in others??? Its only going to be a matter of time before White is simultaneously black, and triangles have four sides, but its ok as long as Thor beat the Thing ???!!!

Yeah!

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Reacting and fighting at FTL is just plain retarded. I don't mind characters moving at FTL, but being consciously attuned to these speeds is beyond ridiculous. IMO its as stupid as continuous errors that frequently occur pre 1985 when comics seemed to grow up a little. Stuff like sneezing a solar system a way come to mind. I'm not saying that thinking/fighting at FTL it isn't valid in comics, but as I an intelligent person tend to ignore it. Obviously the rules of general relativity just don't apply to comics, and there is no cosmic speed limit. this should create all the meta physical paradoxes solved by general relativity ... but who cares its a comic???IMO its bad writing to adopt the "anything goes" policy, however no one on this forum seems to care.

I think its ironic though that the same people get irate about the "bad writing" incurred when established power levels are ignored. I suppose its "OK" to ignore logical rules in some circumstances, and not in others??? Its only going to be a matter of time before White is simultaneously black, and triangles have four sides, but its ok as long as Thor beat the Thing ???!!! People accept what is constant in fictitious worlds like comics. Laws of relativity have been consistently ignored for the duration of comics, so nobody complains when it happens again. People mainly get irritated when comics cease to be consistent with themselves, because then they disappoint. If character X was awesome for their charisma, charm and total control, it becomes irritating to see them written like a douchebag. Similarly, we don't like to see a character totally capable of worldly destruction lose to a guy who can just lift something really heavy, because it makes the former look dumb, incompetent and moronic, and now they're taken out of the plot for what would appear to a half-assed reason.

Originally posted by Endless Mike




Only because everything else in our reference frame is moving at the same speed. Like I said, it's more comparable to someone firing a bullet and two guys running circles around it inflight while fighting each other.
Traveling in a vertical circle around a horizontal beam attack is nothing. The the relative perpendicular velocities are 0.
No it doesn't, it applies in Space as well. Otherwise the Enterprise on Voyager could have gotten back home in reasonable time instead of being restricted to warp 9. Hyperspace or space itself may have some type of drag retarding force. Again, the velocities are different. The ship was moving foward faster than light, not laterally. Laterally it could have been moving 1miles per second or something even slower. It's all about relative velocity. Yes many in comics do have extra sensory ability. But not all. Extra sensory is not needed while traveling FTL speeds in comics. No this is an error. Velocity is additive. If a train is moving 80mph and you throw a ball 50mph to the front then the person in front of the train will see the ball traveling 50mph and easily catch it while a person outside the train (connected to the stationary Earth) will see the ball traveling 130mph (uncatchable).
You are right though in that SS's beam was going faster than light, but not relative to BRB, who sees the beam at its usual slower than light speed.

Now BRB's beam fired at SS is like throwing the ball 50mph to the back of the train. The person in back again would see the ball at 50mph while the person off the train would see it as 30mph in the direction the train is moving. So SS saw the beam at its usual speed, no slower, no faster. That's understood. But my point is that "in general" moving at light speed or beyond doesn't equate to being able to respond or fight at light speed from normal battle distance (but space distance). It is only nitpicking when the nitpicking doesn't destroy the argument.

Originally posted by h1a8

No it doesn't, it applies in Space as well. Otherwise the Enterprise on Voyager could have gotten back home in reasonable time instead of being restricted to warp 9. Hyperspace or space itself may have some type of drag retarding force.

Not really. Terminal Velocity is related acceleration in free-fall due to gravity.

Also, there is no friction in space.

Originally posted by h1a8
Traveling in a vertical circle around a horizontal beam attack is nothing. The the relative perpendicular velocities are 0.


Um, What?

Speed mate, not velocity. Thats a very cheap argument you tried to pull.

Originally posted by Placidity
Not really. Terminal Velocity is related acceleration in free-fall due to gravity.

Also, there is no friction in space.

There is friction in space and hyperspace too.

The k factor is just smaller.

The drag force is equal to k times velocity squared. So the drag force in moving 100mph in an atmosphere is nearly the same drag force as moving near the speed of light in space. Doubling the speed quadruples the drag force.

Originally posted by Placidity
Um, What?

Speed mate, not velocity. Thats a very cheap argument you tried to pull.

Speed without direction (relativity) is nonsense and is not applicable here. Velocity is speed and direction. One can move FTL in one direction and 50mph in another both at the same time. Think about it.

Originally posted by h1a8
No it doesn't, it applies in Space as well. Otherwise the Enterprise on Voyager could have gotten back home in reasonable time instead of being restricted to warp 9.

This is possibly the most hilarious thing I've ever read on KMC

Originally posted by h1a8
Speed without direction (relativity) is nonsense and is not applicable here. Velocity is speed and direction. One can move FTL in one direction and 50mph in another both at the same time. Think about it.

So? It's clearly not what was happening in the other guy's example.

It's like this - even though Superman could race around the world in one second lets say (even though he'd do it in much much less) and arrive at the same spot, his velocity would be zero, and hence he is not fast or as you put it "meaningless" (or something like that). That's what you were trying to pull earlier.

Originally posted by h1a8
The k factor is just smaller.
What k factor?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=define%3A+k+factor

Originally posted by Placidity
So? It's clearly not what was happening in the other guy's example.

It's like this - even though Superman could race around the world in one second lets say (even though he'd do it in much much less) and arrive at the same spot, his velocity would be zero, and hence he is not fast or as you put it "meaningless" (or something like that). That's what you were trying to pull earlier.


No, his velocity with respect to the surface of the Earth (perpendicular velocity) would be zero. His distance from the Earth is not changing over time so that velocity is zero. But his velocity with respect to a particular location on Earth will not be zero.

When you use the term velocity or speed you must make sure the reader knows the 'with respect to'. Otherwise it is ambiguous.

Originally posted by Mindship
What k factor?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=define%3A+k+factor

k is generally used for the constant of proportionality.
k=.5cpA where c is the drag constant (which isn't really a constant), p is the mass density of the medium, and A is the object's cross sectional area. Thus since the p is smaller in space the k is smaller.

Originally posted by h1a8
No, his velocity with respect to the surface of the Earth (perpendicular velocity) would be zero. His distance from the Earth is not changing over time so that velocity is zero. But his velocity with respect to a particular location on Earth will not be zero.


Yes it would. Displacement ultimately is zero at the end.

Originally posted by Placidity
Yes it would. Displacement ultimately is zero at the end. That is the average velocity. I'm referring to instantaneous velocity.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
anyone that has fought superman or out reflex the flashes,,, power by association..

So, uh, Deathstroke can fight at FTL speeds?

Originally posted by h1a8
That is the average velocity. I'm referring to instantaneous velocity.

Exactly, so someone that can run circles around a bullet is fast as well.

Originally posted by Placidity
Exactly, so someone that can run circles around a bullet is fast as well. IMO they will be very fast. But a bullet isn't a continuous blast and is not a good comparison to the previous scans. Imagine a laser beam fired in a straight line in space. How fast do you need to be to circle the beam, assuming you can fly?

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Reacting and fighting at FTL is just plain retarded. I don't mind characters moving at FTL, but being consciously attuned to these speeds is beyond ridiculous. IMO its as stupid as continuous errors that frequently occur pre 1985 when comics seemed to grow up a little. Stuff like sneezing a solar system a way come to mind. I'm not saying that thinking/fighting at FTL it isn't valid in comics, but as I an intelligent person tend to ignore it. Obviously the rules of general relativity just don't apply to comics, and there is no cosmic speed limit. this should create all the meta physical paradoxes solved by general relativity ... but who cares its a comic???IMO its bad writing to adopt the "anything goes" policy, however no one on this forum seems to care.

I think its ironic though that the same people get irate about the "bad writing" incurred when established power levels are ignored. I suppose its "OK" to ignore logical rules in some circumstances, and not in others??? Its only going to be a matter of time before White is simultaneously black, and triangles have four sides, but its ok as long as Thor beat the Thing ???!!!

If you really believed that then you would be against FTL anything in general



But both parties are capable of accelerating and decelerating at will, if your idea was right then all one of them would have to do to completely take the other by surprise was change their acceleration suddenly



What? You're talking sci-fi technobabble now. Voyager could not reach earth quickly because of the limits of the fuel and technology of their own warp drive. But as shown it would be possible to get there pretty much instantly with other things in Star Trek, like Borg transwarp drive, Traveler warp equations, Q powers, Quantum Slipstream drive, Iconian gateways, Kelvan enhanced Warp Drive, etc.



So then why didn't they just shake Surfer by making a rapid lateral acceleration maneuver? Remember they were trying their best to lose him, do you think BRB and his ship are only capable of moving in one dimension?



Yeah, it kind of is, otherwise you won't see the light reflecting off of something until you hit it.



That doesn't work when you're dealing with lightspeed. To use your example, if you are on a train moving 130mph, and you shine a flashlight from the back of the train towards the front, from inside the train it will appear to move at the speed of light. From outside the train it will still appear to move only at the speed of light, not at the speed of light +130 mph.



That's nonsensical, either one of them could have just rapidly changed their acceleration and completely lost/baffled the other if what you are saying is true.



Which it doesn't.



Hyperspace is completely fictional, so I don't know where you are getting this from.



A spaceship isn't a continuous blast either

Originally posted by Endless Mike



But both parties are capable of accelerating and decelerating at will, if your idea was right then all one of them would have to do to completely take the other by surprise was change their acceleration suddenly I don't understand. Aim dodging is enough to avoid blasts. My point was to prove that in fiction space has a retarding force. If it didn't then once the Voyager reaches warp 9 they could just turn off the engine and just coast. Then apply a small pulse to accelerate past warp 9. But they can't because at warp 9 the drag force is too great and thus they don't have enough power to overcome it. Because they were stupid or the fact that the ship thrusters were in the back. That means it can't accelerate to a decent speed laterally. Lateral speed is always less than forward speed. In reality yes, but in comics they throw this logic out the window. You even see people talk in space all the time, which is total nonsense. But seeing things ahead of you is possible. Because light is moving opposite you and can enter the eye. That's assuming that the postulate 'the speed of light is constant' is true. This is the necessary assumption that holds the entire theory of special relativity together (its glue). Well let me tell you this. Me as well as several other physicists don't believe that light is constant but relative. And guess what? Marvel doesn't either. That is why relativity is thrown out the window. D.C. comics is a different story though. One was staying with the ship which couldn't do such maneuvers faster than light. It would be a different story if one was chasing the other without trying to keep up with a linear ship. Also don't assume that character's in comics will always use optimal strategy when in conflict. Because the smartest of beings have been known to do the dumbest things. Glads for instance could easily uppercut Hulk into space for the bfr. But he tried to carry him there instead like an idiot. All these character's don't exist and thus their intelligence is limited by the intelligence of the writer (a mere human who makes mistakes). Not quite. It is proven to exist theoretically and thus is not quite fictional. In theory, empty Space itself (a perfect vacuum) has a natural retarding force. In other words it has a specific permittivity. This is the reason why light can't go faster in it. Yes but its relative velocity to SS and BRB was 0 since it was in the same reference frame. The bullet in the example wasn't though. Note: the bullet was meant as a comparison to the blasts and not the ship. Otherwise the bullet analogy wouldn't make any sense.

Originally posted by h1a8
That's assuming that the postulate 'the speed of light is constant' is true ... Well let me tell you this. Me as well as several other physicists don't believe that light is constant but relative. And guess what? Marvel doesn't either.


It is proven to exist theoretically and thus is not quite fictional.

http://www.un-scripted.com/blogs/alan/uploaded_images/PleaseMakeItStop-749714.jpg

quicksilver, nightcrawler

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't understand. Aim dodging is enough to avoid blasts.

Um, that's completely irrelevant to what I was saying. Also both of them can cause their blasts/attacks to home in on their opponents.




First off, that is completely irrelevant to Marvel, second of all, warp drive doesn't work that way in ST, like the name says it warps space, and a continuous warp field is required to stay in this state, if you shut off the warp drive the warp field disappears and you go back to normal space.



That's completely ridiculous. You are applying design functions from contemporary aircraft to advanced alien technology that moves faster than light. And completely ignoring the idea of just turning.



Here we see the hypocrisy, you only "throw logic out the window" when it is convenient for you, else you wouldn't be attempting to claim the fight wasn't FTL by your flawed attempt to compare relative velocity.



That's nice but completely irrelevant. Get your fringe theories accepted by mainstream science then.



Wrong. They just have methods of bypassing it. If we see a bird flying, we don't assume that the law of gravity is void, we realize the bird is doing something to counteract it. Just like if we see something going FTL in fiction, we don't assume that relativity is void (unless it is directly stated that it is in that fiction), we assume that the object is doing something to get around relativity.



How do you know? Right after the fight we see them maneuvering around space mines while still traveling at the same speed.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/1503/surfermines.th.jpg

We also see Skuttlebutt (the ship) making a turn while Surfer is still pursuing it (it's in the scans already posted on this thread).



You're the only one assuming they are being stupid because your theory depends on it.



Citation please.



Even in a perfect vacuum light can't go faster than c.



How so? If anything the bullet would be easier to keep up with since it wasn't maneuvering like the ship.