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Thanos stops them.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Thanos stops them.

You, Thanos stopps you.

Not them. You run the Gauntlet, once with Supes powers, once with Thors etc.....

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
You, Thanos stopps you.

Not them. You run the Gauntlet, once with Supes powers, once with Thors etc.....

Stops me when I have superman's powers, Thor's, and GL's.
Surfer would give ME a good fight aswell

1. i pawn everyone at the same time due to the quantum bands having a connection to one of the universes fundamental forces.. i destroy the univers ala genis but without the insanity and better bands.

think about the rest later

With Quasar's power I BFR everyone I face into the quantum zone.

With Thor's powers I BFR everyone immedately into another dimension.

With Supes powers I get owned by nearly everyone on the board.

Originally posted by dmills
With Quasar's power I BFR everyone I face into the quantum zone.

With Thor's powers I BFR everyone immedately into another dimension.

With Supes powers I get owned by nearly everyone on the board.

how you going to BFR big G and Odin?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
You, Thanos stopps you.

Not them. You run the Gauntlet, once with Supes powers, once with Thors etc..... ...........NO Nothing stops me...

Originally posted by dmills
With Quasar's power I BFR everyone I face into the quantum zone.

With Thor's powers I BFR everyone immedately into another dimension.

With Supes powers I get owned by nearly everyone on the board.

No BFR, i wrote it. Not big enough i guess.

Whoop's, I just saw BFR isn't an option.

With the Quantum bands and the GL ring;

*I place 1-10 in time stasis ala Thanos vs Thor in B&T (may or may not work on the Surfer).

*With Galactus I'd place a very subtle energy siphoning construct into his WS. Then I'd go the BRB route and destroy every planet that he tries to eat until he's weak enough for a coupe de grace.

*With Odin I wait patiently until he goes into an Odin sleep and then I'd assassinate him.

*Not very familiar with SP as I'm not a big DC fan. From what I can gather he has no real glaring weakness to take advantage of so I probably get pwned.



With Thor's power I'd;

*Steal the kinetic energy from 1-10 and freeze them at absolute zero via Iceman.

*With Odin I'd blast him with the magnetic energy from an entire planet ala Thor vs the Celestial Judge. Only I'm sure it'll do much more then just knock Odin slightly off bounds.

*With Galactus I'd do the same as BRB did.

*With Prime, again IDK the character that well.




With Superman's powers I'd;

Beat the hell out of RUlk (without Loeb force I'm assuming)

With WWH I'd try an all out speed blitz with everything I've got. Full strength, heat vision on full blast, freeze breath, vibrator mouth, everything.

Sentry I'd curbstomp his wannabe ass.

Juggy would be a problem with no BFR option.

Then I'd get owned by Surfer, Thanos, but maybe beat KHP and Doomsday.

Then I'd get erased from existence by Galactus, Odin and SP.

1) Thor's Powers - Me with Thor powers? I'd be ****ing people's shit up hard. If I manage to get past Thanos (Anti-Force, God Blast. I'm pulling all the stops.), I'd be able to make it all the way up to Odin.

2) Green Lantern Ring/Quantum Bands - The versatility would be amazing. I'd pull off every Green Lantern feat I've seen which are pretty most all the impressive ones. I'd be opening portals in time and dumping fighters into the Big Bang. At most I believe I'd make it to Norrin. Silver Surfer is simply superior in power in this situation, has the same versatility but a higher level of base strength, speed, durability etc. If I somehow squeeze out a win there, Thanos kills me.

3) Superman's powers - I think his power set would be the worst here. Without battle field removal, I'd have to go blow for blow, but I'd be speed blitzing the hell out of people. If I make it past World Breaker Hulk by putting him down quick and hard, I'd probably stalemate or lose to Orion (Physical equal with more versatility.). If not, I'd stop at Cain. Can't hurt him, and can't battle field remove him.

Anyone whose competent with Thor's powers would do the best here.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

3) Superman's powers - I think his power set would be the worst here. Without battle field removal, I'd have to go blow for blow, but I'd be speed blitzing the hell out of people. Yeah it's tough to run this gauntlet with Supes base powers. But then again you would have access to the fortress of Solitude. I'm sure that he has some crazy ass Kryptonian tech in there that he can pull out.

Oh I almost forgot about Sun-Dipping. I'd be flying opponents to the Sun with me (If I could manage it against their will.) in moments or fly into the Sun and back before it counts as self battle field removal.

I'd make the Superman from Our Worlds at War arc, look like a *****.

I lose to Sentry with utter humiliation

Is King Hyperion the one from Exiles that Blink blew up?

Badabing I'm being oppressed.

I absolutely refuse to go out there for a third time armed with nothing but superman's powers

Pr this is ungodly spite here..

Didn't read the gauntlet list. I obviously clear it, no matter who tries to stop me flex

i'm amazed at people being so down on Superman's powerset. He doesn't have to duke it out every time, and remember, it's not just Superman, it's YOU with Superman's powerset. You can prep for Norrin. hell, even without prepping, you can still take the guy down if you've read his comics...

As current Superman?

i'd beat: 1-7, 9, 10, 11.

not exactly poor.

stop at 8

Originally posted by -Pr-
i'm amazed at people being so down on Superman's powerset. He doesn't have to duke it out every time, and remember, it's not just Superman, it's YOU with Superman's powerset. You can prep for Norrin. hell, even without prepping, you can still take the guy down if you've read his comics...

As current Superman?

i'd beat: 1-7, 9, 10, 11.

not exactly poor.

you will be missed

Originally posted by -Pr-
i'm amazed at people being so down on Superman's powerset. He doesn't have to duke it out every time, and remember, it's not just Superman, it's YOU with Superman's powerset. You can prep for Norrin. hell, even without prepping, you can still take the guy down if you've read his comics...

As current Superman?

i'd beat: 1-7, 9, 10, 11.

not exactly poor.

Couldn't beat HP Doomsday.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i'm amazed at people being so down on Superman's powerset. He doesn't have to duke it out every time, and remember, it's not just Superman, it's YOU with Superman's powerset. You can prep for Norrin. hell, even without prepping, you can still take the guy down if you've read his comics...

As current Superman?

i'd beat: 1-7, 9, 10, 11.

not exactly poor.

Because Clark's a ****** that's why. And what would you as Superman do besides duke it out? I mean besides his fist and speed what other methods of attacks does he have? Super Breath and Heat Vision isn't doing much to some of the opponents here. Just saying.

Without battle field removal how does you beat Juggernaut? And you ain't beating Norrin or Hunter Prey either in my opinion.

And where does it say we are allowed to get prep?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Because Clark's a ****** that's why. And what would you as Superman do besides duke it out? I mean besides his fist and speed what other methods of attacks does he have? Super Breath and Heat Vision isn't doing much to some of the opponents here. Just saying.

Without battle field removal how does you beat Juggernaut? And you ain't beating Norrin or Hunter Prey either in my opinion.

And where does it say we are allowed to get prep?

Oh yeah didn't see about the bfr. I don't see Juggernaut being passed then. Ends in a stalemate.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Because Clark's a ****** that's why. And what would you as Superman do besides duke it out? I mean besides his fist and speed what other methods of attacks does he have? Super Breath and Heat Vision isn't doing much to some of the opponents here. Just saying.

Without battle field removal how does you beat Juggernaut? And you ain't beating Norrin or Hunter Prey either in my opinion.

And where does it say we are allowed to get prep?

i didn't get the censored part.

i disagree. his hv and freeze breath have been effective against some very powerful beings/obstacles in the past.

juggy can't touch me unless i let him, and besides, endlessly punching on him without him getting a single lick in is bound to make him give up sooner or later.

hunter prey isn't that much better than current superman, imo. and norrin is beatable too imo.

that's why i said even without prep.

That's why Rage and I both kinda said as Supes you'd have to speed blitz the hell out of these people and try to end it fast. If you can't end it fast then you have no hope IMO. Excluding Sentry and Rulk of course.

Even Sun Dipped Supes is just his original powers amped. What this gauntlet needs is versatility i.e. matter manipulation, inter dimensional teleportation, etc. Superman red or blue would do better IMO.

Originally posted by dmills
That's why Rage and I both kinda said as Supes you'd have to speed blitz the hell out of these people and try to end it fast. If you can't end it fast then you have no hope IMO. Excluding Sentry and Rulk of course.

Even Sun Dipped Supes is just his original powers amped. What this gauntlet needs is versatility i.e. matter manipulation, inter dimensional teleportation, etc.

then we disagree.

i don't believe he needs speed to beat several of the people on this list.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i didn't get the censored part.

i disagree. his hv and freeze breath have been effective against some very powerful beings/obstacles in the past.

juggy can't touch me unless i let him, and besides, endlessly punching on him without him getting a single lick in is bound to make him give up sooner or later.

hunter prey isn't that much better than current superman, imo. and norrin is beatable too imo.

that's why i said even without prep.

I called Clark a f@ggot.

Powerful opponents? Who on this list would his heat vision or super breath do besides annoy?

And you can't touch Juggernaut unless he lets you. Superman cannot touch him through his Force Field if he uses it. Cain ain't the type to give up too be honest, and Superman cannot hurt him physically. He would get bored eventually though.

Hunter Prey Doomsday, is better enough that I don't see Clark defeating him without battle field removal. He can clearly hold his own though. You could probably put him down once or twice though.

Norrin is beatable, I just don't see Clark's power set being enough in my honest opinion. Clark's extremely versatile compared to almost all flying bricks, but compared to Norrin? I just don't think he brings anything to the table that would allow you defeat Norrin for the majority, especially with Norrin's, "I'll kick your ass if I have to", current attitude.

The most important fact here that we should acknowledge is that if I had Thor's powers, I'd **** your shit up if you had Superman's powers.

Originally posted by -Pr-
then we disagree.

i don't believe he needs speed to beat several of the people on this list. Not necessarily Rulk, or Juggz, but the others he absolutely needs to speed blitz to end it quickly. Take Norrin for example. Supes has a chance if he goes all out and is able to end it fast. But if he isn't, the longer the fight is drawn out, the more likely Norrin will detect what makes Supes tick and pull something exotic to beat him. Norrin doesn't fight like a brick, he uses his diversity.

And without BFR how is he doing anything to Juggz?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I called Clark a f@ggot.

Powerful opponents? Who on this list would his heat vision or super breath do besides annoy?

And you can't touch Juggernaut unless he lets you. Superman cannot touch him through his Force Field if he uses it. Cain ain't the type to give up too be honest, and Superman cannot hurt him physically. He would get bored eventually though.

Hunter Prey Doomsday, is better enough that I don't see Clark defeating him without battle field removal. He can clearly hold his own though. You could probably put him down once or twice though.

Norrin is beatable, I just don't see Clark's power set being enough in my honest opinion. Clark's extremely versatile compared to almost all flying bricks, but compared to Norrin? I just don't think he brings anything to the table that would allow you defeat Norrin for the majority, especially with Norrin's, "I'll kick your ass if I have to", current attitude.

The most important fact here that we should acknowledge is that if I had Thor's powers, I'd **** your shit up if you had Superman's powers.



it's worked against people like despero, darkseid, daddy mongul, etc.

cain's fighting in character, remember? besides, if he tries to use his forcefields, i'll just lift up the concrete under his feet. or would that not work?

i could put him down more than once, imo.

imo, clark is stronger and more durable to norrin. he's also tanked a lot worse than norrin's standard blasts.



well, you have magic. it's a cheap way to win. if you fought like a man, then things would be interesting.

Originally posted by dmills
Not necessarily Rulk, or Juggz, but the others he absolutely needs to speed blitz to end it quickly. Take Norrin for example. Supes has a chance if he goes all out and is able to end it fast. But if he isn't, the longer the fight is drawn out, the more likely Norrin will detect what makes Supes tick and pull something exotic to beat him. Norrin doesn't fight like a brick, he uses his diversity.

And without BFR how is he doing anything to Juggz?

i know how norrin fights, and yes, against him, speed would be a factor. i don't think it would be against everyone else though.

Originally posted by -Pr-


it's worked against people like despero, darkseid, daddy mongul, etc.

cain's fighting in character, remember? besides, if he tries to use his forcefields, i'll just lift up the concrete under his feet. or would that not work?

i could put him down more than once, imo.

imo, clark is stronger and more durable to norrin. he's also tanked a lot worse than norrin's standard blasts.



well, you have magic. it's a cheap way to win. if you fought like a man, then things would be interesting.

Despero? That dude fluctuates and sometimes it's plain garbage. Aquaman threw a harpoon threw his shoulder at one point.

Darkseid? I don't recall him hurting Darkseid with his heat vision. Mongul? You mean Krypto's chew toy? Lol.

I don't know really. Cain's walked on air before, but that was when Jean Grey offered a resisting force with her telekinesis.

And what good would picking up the concrete from under him do? No battle field removal, and you still can't touch or harm him.

If you think so.

Clark starts out stronger to an extent but Norrin can amp. Clark ain't more durable than Norrin. Especially taking into account his ability to amp. And his been hurt by less than what Norrin can accomplish in terms of his power set.

Fight like a man? You better hope I don't get my hands on you. I'd violate you worse than Mindset would. Something like this:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_Mangogdefeated3.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_Mangogdefeated4.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_Mangogdefeated5.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_Mangogdefeated6.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_Mangogdefeated7.jpg

Accept my hammer wouldn't go down your through but up your......

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Despero? That dude fluctuates and sometimes it's plain garbage. Aquaman threw a harpoon threw his shoulder at one point.

Darkseid? I don't recall him hurting Darkseid with his heat vision. Mongul? You mean Krypto's chew toy? Lol.

I don't know really. Cain's walked on air before, but that was when Jean Grey offered a resisting force with her telekinesis.

And what good would picking up the concrete from under him do? No battle field removal, and you still can't touch or harm him.

If you think so.

Clark starts out stronger to an extent but Norrin can amp. Clark ain't more durable than Norrin. Especially taking into account his ability to amp. And his been hurt by less than what Norrin can accomplish in terms of his power set.

Fight like a man? You better hope I don't get my hands on you. I'd violate you worse than Mindset would. Something like this:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_Mangogdefeated3.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_Mangogdefeated4.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_Mangogdefeated5.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_Mangogdefeated6.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_Mangogdefeated7.jpg

Accept my hammer wouldn't go down your through but up your......

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I called Clark a f@ggot.



he wears his underpants the wrong way around

Its a bit unfair to ask us to do that.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
2) Green Lantern Ring/Quantum Bands - The versatility would be amazing. I'd pull off every Green Lantern feat I've seen which are pretty most all the impressive ones. I'd be opening portals in time and dumping fighters into the Big Bang. At most I believe I'd make it to Norrin. Silver Surfer is simply superior in power in this situation, has the same versatility but a higher level of base strength, speed, durability etc. If I somehow squeeze out a win there, Thanos kills me.


A GL or Quasar by themselves are around the same powerlevel as Silver Surfer (anyone can argue who is better based on bias, but you have to admit they are around the same ballpark). Take those two powersets together, I'd think you would be more powerful than Norrin, but that is just me.

If you are really worried about the physical base that SS has over a human, you could always amp yourself genetically with the GL ring (Kryponian/Damamite you pick, the supercomputer should have the data) and/or make your body be able to absorb various types of energy (such as Shaw with Kinetic or Bishop with various types of energy). And thats just a simple fix to the problem you specified. I can think of other things to deal with much more complex situations than just physical threats.

The ring/bands are more powerful and versatile than they appear. And with the constant energy from the bands, my ring would never get depleted. I honestly think I'd do best with them than with Thor's powerset or Superman's.

Without putting too much thought into this, I think I could clear up to 11 by trying to choke everyone out. It would be more effective on some but, without being an expert on their physiology, I think most of those characters have veins in their necks that feed blood to their brains. The only one I wouldn't be too sure on is Doomsday, because he's stupid, and Surfer, because sometimes he's just a shell with magic inside.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Despero? That dude fluctuates and sometimes it's plain garbage. Aquaman threw a harpoon threw his shoulder at one point.

Darkseid? I don't recall him hurting Darkseid with his heat vision. Mongul? You mean Krypto's chew toy? Lol.

I don't know really. Cain's walked on air before, but that was when Jean Grey offered a resisting force with her telekinesis.

And what good would picking up the concrete from under him do? No battle field removal, and you still can't touch or harm him.

If you think so.

Clark starts out stronger to an extent but Norrin can amp. Clark ain't more durable than Norrin. Especially taking into account his ability to amp. And his been hurt by less than what Norrin can accomplish in terms of his power set.

Fight like a man? You better hope I don't get my hands on you. I'd violate you worse than Mindset would. Something like this:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_Mangogdefeated3.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_Mangogdefeated4.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_Mangogdefeated5.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_Mangogdefeated6.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_Mangogdefeated7.jpg

Accept my hammer wouldn't go down your through but up your......

it wasn't piercing damage. it was blunt force from his hv, and it one shotted despero. tis impressive.

darkseid has been held back by hv.

wrong mongul. this was daddy mongul. bigger, badder, and a whole lot meaner.

he can't hurt me unless i let him either. at worst its a stalemate.

disagree about norrin.

keep dreaming goldilocks.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
A GL or Quasar by themselves are around the same powerlevel as Silver Surfer (anyone can argue who is better based on bias, but you have to admit they are around the same ballpark). Take those two powersets together, I'd think you would be more powerful than Norrin, but that is just me.

If you are really worried about the physical base that SS has over a human, you could always amp yourself genetically with the GL ring (Kryponian/Damamite you pick, the supercomputer should have the data) and/or make your body be able to absorb various types of energy (such as Shaw with Kinetic or Bishop with various types of energy). And thats just a simple fix to the problem you specified. I can think of other things to deal with much more complex situations than just physical threats.

The ring/bands are more powerful and versatile than they appear. And with the constant energy from the bands, my ring would never get depleted. I honestly think I'd do best with them than with Thor's powerset or Superman's.

Nah, Norrin has more raw power than either the Quantum Bands or a Green Lantern Ring (The limited charge restriction doesn't help.). Remember the Quasar Silver Surfer encounter? That made it even more clear to me.

Originally posted by -Pr-
it wasn't piercing damage. it was blunt force from his hv, and it one shotted despero. tis impressive.

darkseid has been held back by hv.

wrong mongul. this was daddy mongul. bigger, badder, and a whole lot meaner.

he can't hurt me unless i let him either. at worst its a stalemate.

disagree about norrin.

keep dreaming goldilocks.

Heat Vision is an Optic Blast now? I thought heat vision when concentrated is just that, concentrated heat. Since when is it a blunt force attack? I know their were inconsistences with Cyclops, but this has happened with Clark too?

I'm pretty sure I've seen Hawk Girl's mace to the head **** up Despero. By that I mean hurt him.

Scans for Mongul and Darkseid. I honestly can't recall it and I'm too lazy to check. Oh and "please".

You'd probably enjoy me shoving Mjolnir up where the sun don't shine you dirty bastard.

edit.

PR has it covered.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
Without putting too much thought into this, I think I could clear up to 11 by trying to choke everyone out. It would be more effective on some but, without being an expert on their physiology, I think most of those characters have veins in their necks that feed blood to their brains.


mmm



BA would choke back

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Nah, Norrin has more raw power than either the Quantum Bands or a Green Lantern Ring (The limited charge restriction doesn't help.). Remember the Quasar Silver Surfer encounter? That made it even more clear to me.

Seperately? Thats your opinion, and I could be persuaded to think so based on a handful of feats, but I tend to see the Power Cosmic = GL ring = Bands more often than not (with the Power Cosmic getting a slight nod over both).

But both bands and a ring put together? I seriously have to say thats not recognizing the syngergistic effects those two have together. A 100% charged ring (at all times thanks to the bands), the ability to do anything you want, and the control over every single energy type plus more capacity to control energy than SS (think of the Ego feat).

The feat you speak of shows us that Quasar let Silver Surfer win. Would he have won? Probably not. But with the added benefit of having a GL ring, which can do substantially more, I believe that a person can win. Especially if you get creative with the powers you have, and add them together.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Heat Vision is an Optic Blast now? I thought heat vision when concentrated is just that, concentrated heat. Since when is it a blunt force attack? I know their were inconsistences with Cyclops, but this has happened with Clark too?

I'm pretty sure I've seen Hawk Girl's mace to the head **** up Despero. By that I mean hurt him.

Scans for Mongul and Darkseid. I honestly can't recall it and I'm too lazy to check. Oh and "please".

You'd probably enjoy me shoving Mjolnir up where the sun don't shine you dirty bastard.

it has concussive force and heat. depends on how superman uses it, iirc.

that was hawkman. and after he hit despero, despero knocked him the hell out. superman took out despero in one shot. not the same thing.

i don't have the mongul ones handy, but it was from "for the man who has everything" which is back to being canon. and his hv has held off ds during owaw.

Originally posted by -Pr-
it has concussive force and heat. depends on how superman uses it, iirc.

that was hawkman. and after he hit despero, despero knocked him the hell out. superman took out despero in one shot. not the same thing.

i don't have the mongul ones handy, but it was from "for the man who has everything" which is back to being canon. and his hv has held off ds during owaw.

When has that happened? It being concussive I mean. And wasn't Despero was left in a smoking pile when Clark used his heat vision?

He hurt him didn't he? Like I said, Despero showings fluctuate. His durability especially.

I have that story. It's cannon again right? I'll re-read it.

All New God showings are basically null and void at this point after Final Crisis aren't they (I believe it was Secret Files etc.)?

Morrison explained all the of the New God's fluctuation's with the entire ruptured reality reflection or whatever shit didn't he? I mean with the immediate retcon after Death of New Gods. Each and every appearance was basically the New God's taking different forms in every appearance (Like Flesh suits.). That would explain why Orion is a drooling lunatic at one point and a philosophical warrior in another. Why Orion stalemates Darkseid, while Superman has beaten Darkseid. He found a way how to explain all of this and keep all of the showings cannon.

We knew the New Gods had a true form and they only inhabit smaller forms when they enter Superman's dimension but apparently, it's a different incarnation every time.

Well, that's how I understood it.

Edit: I think I recalled some shit wrong but that's the jist of it from what I undertood.

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/Superman/th_HaCsAHunter-Prey-02-43.jpg

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/Superman/th_week41-1999-AdvOfSupes-572-14-1.jpg http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/Superman/th_week41-1999-AdvOfSupes-572-15-1.jpg

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/Superman/th_AdventuresOfSuperman609p15.jpg

Then there is him countering Dominus's blasts and Darkseid OB.

I've read all that. He always said heat vision so I assumed he just concentrated it greatly, but it does seem like an Optic Blast, especially the second set of scans. He literally sends his ass flying. That has to have concussive force.

Superman has ridiculous control over his heat vision. I remember when he burned a chip at the back of Batman's brain while only stinging him. I also remember when he temporarily lobotomized Manchester Black.

I clear it easily

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
and Surfer, because sometimes he's just a shell with magic inside.
I could see how someone could view surfer that ways heheh

Without bfr:

1- Stop at 8
2- Stop at 4
3- Stop at 5

If it were me... I instigate plan alpha.
Time travel by an means possible. Ie kill doom and se his tech... Get the ig and win...

Find thoti using the bands and rings to absorb the energys and make myself god...

Travel back on time to the event that made ore retcon molecule man... Put myself in there... And come back as one badass mama jamma

I travel to image and kill max faraday before he sees the divine right code. Then read all of it myself protected by my fields...

Basically I do whateve it take to become god.