Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I like the country but i havent been there . what about you ? have you been there or even live there ?

what are your views ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuQSrb1XdUI

I live in the state of Oregon.

http://www.sou.edu/envirostudies/images/RogueValley_pilotrock-jessup.jpg

Never been. Maybe one day I'll get a passport.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I live in the state of Oregon.

http://www.sou.edu/envirostudies/images/RogueValley_pilotrock-jessup.jpg
Not nearly so pretty most places.

I only go when work makes me

Originally posted by King Kandy
Not nearly so pretty most places.

Well, were I live, I can drive less then an 1/2 hour and look out onto a similar scene.

California>USA

I live in Taxachusetts.

Originally posted by WickedDynamite
California>USA

Don't go, it's a well known fascist state.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Don't go, it's a well known fascist state.

Ya, but that's New York.

No, NY is a monarchy. Just ask King Bloomberg.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Don't go, it's a well known fascist state.

haha, good one

i mean, its not like there is rampant electoral fraud or that "both" "parties" represent almost no choice and are actively trying to expand the power of the central executive...

wait... was I being sarcastic... I don't remember any more

Originally posted by inimalist
haha, good one

i mean, its not like there is rampant electoral fraud or that "both" "parties" represent almost no choice and are actively trying to expand the power of the central executive...

wait... was I being sarcastic... I don't remember any more

I don't see any sarcasm.

Originally posted by inimalist
haha, good one

i mean, its not like there is rampant electoral fraud or that "both" "parties" represent almost no choice and are actively trying to expand the power of the central executive...

wait... was I being sarcastic... I don't remember any more

No one is forcing them to stay in the country or vote for those parties srug

And really the alternative is socialism, who wants that?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
No one is forcing them to stay in the country or vote for those parties srug

not yet at least

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
And really the alternative is socialism, who wants that?

smelly hippies

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't see any sarcasm.

I was being sort of serious... I started the post with the desire to be sarcastic, but it kind of didn't work so well... kind of trying to make light of a fairly extreme comment

Originally posted by inimalist
...I was being sort of serious... I started the post with the desire to be sarcastic, but it kind of didn't work so well... kind of trying to make light of a fairly extreme comment

We are on the same page.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
We are on the same page.

Of the same thread even. But that's not important.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Of the same thread even. But that's not important.

Just rare.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Well, were I live, I can drive less then an 1/2 hour and look out onto a similar scene.
Where do you live, exactly? I'm in eugene and I can see stuff like that close by, but farther than 1/2 hour for sure.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Where do you live, exactly? I'm in eugene and I can see stuff like that close by, but farther than 1/2 hour for sure.

I live in Medford.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
We are on the same page.







this

Not according to what Isaiah says, he says living in California sucks ass.

The US is alright, although I have never actually been anywhere else to compare.

Yes, I've been to USA numerous times. First time stayed there for 8 weeks.
It is very different to Europe, bizarre in some aspects, but very cool in others.

Originally posted by WickedDynamite
California>USA Los Angeles > California > USA

Some evenings, the NO2 gases in the air cause a beautiful orangish sky. Lovely chemicals.

I live on Connecticut..hope to move to either Boston or NYC within the next 5 years, probably for school.

America? It's okay.

Originally posted by Dr. Leg Kick
Los Angeles > California > USA

Some evenings, the NO2 gases in the air cause a beautiful orangish sky. Lovely chemicals. I love our orange sky stoned

Originally posted by Mairuzu
I love our orange sky stoned

F*ck yeah!

It's impossible to give a definitive evaluation because there are so many different kinds of areas. Farmland, urban, rural-urban, suburban, whatever.

I think you have to overlook the inhabitants in a way and also consider the natural beauty of some parts of the USA, humans are annoying pricks most the time anyway.

I'm not allowed to travel by plane for reasons that I am not at liberty to talk about here


But I went when I was 16 and thought it was awesome and I plan to go back and who knows maybe live their someday

Originally posted by NemeBro
Not according to what Isaiah says, he says living in California sucks

What..he lives in the Ghettos or something?

Originally posted by Dr. Leg Kick
Los Angeles > California > USA

Some evenings, the NO2 gases in the air cause a beautiful orangish sky. Lovely chemicals.

True...but I still prefer the gorgeous peaceful sunsets in Oceanside and Coronado.

SD>LA>SF>California>US

Originally posted by coolmovies
I like the country but i havent been there . what about you ? have you been there or even live there ?

what are your views ?




Some parts are very nice to visit but dont ever live there.

Originally posted by WickedDynamite
What..he lives in the Ghettos or something?



True...but I still prefer the gorgeous peaceful sunsets in Oceanside and Coronado.

SD>LA>SF>California>US You prefer nature over chemicals in the air?

Originally posted by Dr. Leg Kick
You prefer nature over chemicals in the air?

Air always has chemicals in it, in fact air is made of chemicals.

I have never been to the United States and I live somewhere between here and there

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Air always has chemicals in it, in fact air is made of chemicals. I was joking.

What a complex question. What part of it? Many areas are so different from each other. I've lived in West Virginia, Louisiana, Ohio, North Carolina, Virginia, and been in the military. I've spent most of my adult life in Nevada (I'm 46) and plan to retire in California in 3-4 years. I've been to most of Europe and central and south America. I can see a lot of aspects where Europe is better than America and some where it isn't. I like visiting Latin America but with the possible exception of Costa Rica I'd never want to live there.

The US is certainly a decent country overall but we need changes in several areas of our society. Economically we are in BIG trouble and will be for quite some time...if we even recover at all. Socially and politically, well that's another matter.

Originally posted by coolmovies
I like the country but i havent been there . what about you ? have you been there or even live there ?

what are your views ?



I love my country,the USA. I just hate our government that runs it.Our country is the not the same country that our forefathers faught for anymore.

Instead of the people having control over the government like the constitution of the united states says were SUPPOSE to have, and in which we did originally when we fought for it,its now in control of greedy selfish corporations and businesses. People like Thomas Jefferson actually warned the people back then to guard against tyranny cause they knew that could easily happen like it has over the years.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
I love my country,the USA. I just hate our government that runs it.Our country is the not the same country that our forefathers faught for anymore.

right, blacks are no longer in slavery and women can vote

what a crappy 200 years it has been

I think American patriotism is great. I think more countries should feel like that about their country and should not be scorned over it either.

eg. French are so pompous about their language!

Also, founding fathers had a great idea about freedom of doing and being, but some things are bound to change and evolve eventually, no?

Patriotism is great until people begin to try and use it as a bludgeon or a weapon against others who may disagree with their stance or ideas.

To quote the great film Paths of Glory: "Sometimes, patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

Of course. I concur. Nothing is to be taken to extreme. But the love for the country Americans feel is admirable.
Also, I don't think people who feel the love for their country should make fun or demean those who love their countries, too.

Nationalism and patriotism...it can cross a line and morph into some kind of discriminatory...thing.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Of course. I concur. Nothing is to be taken to extreme. But the love for the country Americans feel is admirable.
Also, I don't think people who feel the love for their country should make fun or demean those who love their countries, too.

Nationalism and patriotism...it can cross a line and morph into some kind of discriminatory...thing.

Isn't the dividing line between "nationalism" and "patriotism"?

A nationalist is a particularly intense patriot.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Isn't the dividing line between "nationalism" and "patriotism"?

A nationalist is a particularly intense patriot.

I don't believe it is black and white with nationalism. The term is used to describe the sense of national sovereignty and identity. But recently, it is more used to describe those who love their own but hate someone elses (and others).

I think we should embrace love for nations, identity of a nation and its sovereignty but denounce ethnocentrism completely.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I live in the state of Oregon.

http://www.sou.edu/envirostudies/images/RogueValley_pilotrock-jessup.jpg

Me too, though I live closer to Portland (Beaverton). Great place to live

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I think American patriotism is great. I think more countries should feel like that about their country and should not be scorned over it either.

eg. French are so pompous about their language!

Also, founding fathers had a great idea about freedom of doing and being, but some things are bound to change and evolve eventually, no?

When are you coming to NYC so we can hang out?

Its a beautiful country, pity about the people.

Originally posted by BackFire
Patriotism is great until people begin to try and use it as a bludgeon or a weapon against others who may disagree with their stance or ideas.

To quote the great film Paths of Glory: "Sometimes, patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Samuel Johnson quote, and its very true.

edit

That quote is been used in other movies. I personally like it more in The Rock. Connery just pwned during the whole movie.

very disappointed by it.

Eh, I say give Empire America 4-5 more years before it collapses, by collapse I mean anumber of things ie revolution, economy failure, etc. The people I've noticed just don't care about politics and if you don't care about politics you might as well throw the entire framework of your Consitiuion away and start pissing on George Washington's grave.

didn't America piss on GW's grave when they ended slavery and the oppression of women?

Originally posted by ChakraStrings
Eh, I say give Empire America 4-5 more years before it collapses, by collapse I mean anumber of things ie revolution, economy failure, etc. The people I've noticed just don't care about politics and if you don't care about politics you might as well throw the entire framework of your Consitiuion away and start pissing on George Washington's grave.

Yeah...we're going down with Obama and you guys with Gordon Brown.

Bloody socialist!

Actually, the Constitutional Congress had heated debates in regards to ending slavery but it was kept in to appease southern states and create a union with many of the framers assuming that slavery would be phased out once the country had developed sufficient infrastructure and government. Instead the south just got really ****ing lazy. The constitution was specifically written to be a changing, living document to adjust for the times and contemporary values. They also lived in a time when indentured servitude, a form of white slavery was still widespread.

As for the difference between Nationalism and Patriotism, I see patriotism as love of country and idea/ideal of country and choosing to identify with a nation state as part of your personal identity. I see nationalism as blind, jingoistic love of country and government, feelings of entitlement to resources that conform to realist IR theory (the strong will take what they will and the weak will suffer what they must-Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War), an attitude of war mongering and persecution against other nations, people of other nationalities, or people who do not view their national identity as being as important as other factors, and view of all other peoples, ideologies, and nationalities as inferior; essentially a stateist equivalent to racism or ethnocentrism typically identified with the extreme right or the extreme left (but only in cases post-revolution in which a cult is formed around the state or single personality or figurehead).

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Actually, the Constitutional Congress had heated debates in regards to ending slavery but it was kept in to appease southern states and create a union with many of the framers assuming that slavery would be phased out once the country had developed sufficient infrastructure and government. Instead the south just got really ****ing lazy. The constitution was specifically written to be a changing, living document to adjust for the times and contemporary values. They also lived in a time when indentured servitude, a form of white slavery was still widespread.

interesting, also found this:

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/thirteenthamendment.html

forgive my ignorance, though, but wouldn't Washington and most, if not all, other founding fathers have been slave owners?

are there any notable exceptions?

Do you make a distinction between African slaves and indentured servants?

Everything has a downside.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Do you make a distinction between African slaves and indentured servants?

explain the difference in this context, svp?

Generally, there were three kinds of labor considered slavery by modern standards in the United States.

There was outright forced labor which is what happened to the Africans and Native Americans. There was indentured servitude in which poor families up until the early 19th century paid for their travel to America via unpaid labor that was often at interest, unfair, and lasted generations. Then there was unpaid labor or the scrip system which mostly took place in company mine and factory towns in which people were paid company credit at interest to create a form of wage slavery. That lasted till 1948.

ok, weren't all the founding fathers owners of African slaves?

Only 25 of the 55 framers of the constitution owned slaves at the time of the continental congress and some that formerly owned slaves like Benjamin Franklin were by that point firm abolitionists.

intriguing

devided states of anericam