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Who wins? No prep....

Daarkseid at his best Vs Supes, Thor, SS and Blk Adam

Team stomps.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Team stomps.
How?
this DS at his best FC version
OS ftw

Originally posted by manx422
How?
this DS at his best FC version
OS ftw We never saw him physically take on any team like this in a physical confrontation. We saw Batman through a guy armed with radion pull off fatally wounding Darkseid. This team pounds on Darkseid as we can only speculate about his formidability in fc.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We never saw him physically take on any team like this in a physical confrontation. We saw Batman through a guy armed with radion pull off fatally wounding Darkseid. This team pounds on Darkseid as we can only speculate about his formidability in fc.
Nothing is save them from OS

DS in a stomp! Team can't do anything against him.

Darkseid dies horribly, but not before taking half of the team with him.

Actually without plot devices like the Radion Bullet and the Miracle Machine DS would have consumed all of reality. A physical fight was out of the question, DS wins this but not by lifting a finger or OSing anyone, he just waits for his soul to collapse and swallow all reality including the team.

Originally posted by manx422
Nothing is save them from OS Tell that to Superman or Thor. Thor can deflect it and I bet Supes or the Surfer can as Supes has already done so to the omega effect.Originally posted by xJLxKing
DS in a stomp! Team can't do anything against him. Based on what? Are you ignoring Darkseid's history against Superman.Originally posted by Omega Vision
Actually without plot devices like the Radion Bullet and the Miracle Machine DS would have consumed all of reality. A physical fight was out of the question, DS wins this but not by lifting a finger or OSing anyone, he just waits for his soul to collapse and swallow all reality including the team. That isn't a viable option.

the team doesn't have a radion gun or a miracle machine. without either of those, there's not a lot they can do to FC DS...

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Actually without plot devices like the Radion Bullet and the Miracle Machine DS would have consumed all of reality. A physical fight was out of the question, DS wins this but not by lifting a finger or OSing anyone, he just waits for his soul to collapse and swallow all reality including the team.

The multiverse, not all of reality.

Radion bullet isn't any more a plot device than kryptonite.

Originally posted by -Pr-
the team doesn't have a radion gun or a miracle machine. without either of those, there's not a lot they can do to FC DS... Here's the problem I have with this. We really don't know how Darkseid would fare here as he showed us nothing combat wise of what he can even do to them.

Darkseid wasn't affected by the Crisis so all of his PC feats stand. Given that a full powered DS's only real obstacle here is Black Adam (if its WW3 BA) and he goes down easy.

Now FC DS simply isn't defined well, he could be in theory either much stronger or much weaker than PC DS, we don't know.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Darkseid wasn't affected by the Crisis so all of his PC feats stand. Given that a full powered DS's only real obstacle here is Black Adam (if its WW3 BA) and he goes down easy.

Now FC DS simply isn't defined well, he could be in theory either much stronger or much weaker than PC DS, we don't know. So do all of his other feats/fights like countdown, owaw, and apokolips now.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Here's the problem I have with this. We really don't know how Darkseid would fare here as he showed us nothing combat wise of what he can even do to them.

without a host, he also had no corporeal form.

Originally posted by -Pr-
without a host, he also had no corporeal form. We simply don't know how to debate Ds so either we revert back to classic levels or we can't debate him as we have no idea what he can do. If his power level was well beyond them in combat we still don't know how much.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We simply don't know how to debate Ds so either we revert back to classic levels or we can't debate him as we have no idea what he can do. If his power level was well beyond them in combat we still don't know how much.

the fact that his fat ass was destroying the multiverse is a fair idea. he'd win by doing just that. it would take a while, but it counts as a win.

Lookit Paul, trying to act like he reads Superman comics.

Originally posted by -Pr-
the fact that his fat ass was destroying the multiverse is a fair idea. he'd win by doing just that. it would take a while, but it counts as a win. Wasn't it due to the ale? If Thor godblasts Darkseid what happens? If Superman lays a hurtin on him what happens?

Too many things we don't know to properly debate fc Darkseid outside a whole lot of speculation.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So do all of his other feats/fights like countdown, owaw, and apokolips now.
Yeah but given that we've seen what he can do (stomp a Pre Crisis Kryptonian, create Validus with a wave of his hand.. etc.) those feats/fight should be regarded as jobbing/PIS. Hell almost all his appearances in the last twenty years are examples of bad writing and PIS.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Wasn't it due to the ale? If Thor godblasts Darkseid what happens? If Superman lays a hurtin on him what happens?

Too many things we don't know to properly debate fc Darkseid outside a whole lot of speculation.

they can't touch him. he has no corporeal form. that's stated in the comics. that's why he took a host.

Originally posted by -Pr-
they can't touch him. he has no corporeal form. that's stated in the comics. that's why he took a host. Wouldn't he need to take one though to fight in this thread?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Wouldn't he need to take one though to fight in this thread?

why? he's destroying the multiverse anyways.

Originally posted by -Pr-
why? he's destroying the multiverse anyways. Yes, because he is dying and dragging everything else with him. I still see it as unfair to debate for or against fc darkseid as there are too many unknown variables.

Originally posted by -Pr-
"He has no corporeal form, Thor can't touch him"

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Dog.jpg

Black Adam eats Darkseid's face.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, because he is dying and dragging everything else with him. I still see it as unfair to debate for or against fc darkseid as there are too many unknown variables.

i don't think there are that many unknown variables. is the thread fair? no.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Dog.jpg

we know darkseid wasn't just intangible. so tell me: how would thor have hurt FC darkseid?

Originally posted by -Pr-
we know darkseid wasn't just intangible. so tell me: how would thor have hurt FC darkseid?

Darkseid must've been something, otherwise Superman couldn't have beepbox'd him to death. This would make it all the easier for Thor to absorb him. Thor, whose godblast has mended rifts in time/space, absorbed and/or attacked energy beings and so on.

It won't beat Darkseid, but Thor can definitely affect his colour-form.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Darkseid must've been something, otherwise Superman couldn't have beepbox'd him to death. This would make it all the easier for Thor to absorb him. Thor, whose godblast has mended rifts in time/space, absorbed and/or attacked energy beings and so on.

It won't beat Darkseid, but Thor can definitely affect his colour-form.

he'd taken a host and been shot by a radion bullet when superman beat him, hadn't he?

Originally posted by -Pr-
he'd taken a host and been shot by a radion bullet when superman beat him, hadn't he?

Host was killed by the racer wasn't it? Regardless, as long as there's a mind or a soul, Thor can affect it.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Host was killed by the racer wasn't it? Regardless, as long as there's a mind or a soul, Thor can affect it.

racer only killed him after he'd been shot with the bullet, iirc.

i dunno about that, tbh. not that thor can't affect it, but that there was something there to affect...

Originally posted by -Pr-
racer only killed him after he'd been shot with the bullet, iirc.

i dunno about that, tbh. not that thor can't affect it, but that there was something there to affect...

What is there not to know about?

Thor has.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
What is there not to know about?

Thor has.

which i didn't deny.

it's the proporites of the non-corporeal darkseid that are in doubt.

Originally posted by -Pr-
which i didn't deny.

it's the proporites of the non-corporeal darkseid that are in doubt.

Regardless, it was a mind or a spirit/soul. Otherwise the ALE would've been impossible to work.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Regardless, it was a mind or a spirit/soul. Otherwise the ALE would've been impossible to work.

why? the ALE doesn't work on darkseid. it worked on the population of earth.

Originally posted by -Pr-
why? the ALE doesn't work on darkseid. it worked on the population of earth.

He works it.

Also, now you're getting ridiculous. You're claiming Darkseid had neither a consciousness nor a spirit/soul at the time? Get real.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
He works it.

Also, now you're getting ridiculous. You're claiming Darkseid had neither a consciousness nor a spirit/soul at the time? Get real.

he doesn't. the ALE, iirc, was independent of darkseid.

check my posts. where do i say he didn't have a consciousness or a spirit/soul? i said we don't know what he manifested as. if galan was here, he'd know.

Originally posted by -Pr-
he doesn't. the ALE, iirc, was independent of darkseid.

check my posts. where do i say he didn't have a consciousness or a spirit/soul? i said we don't know what he manifested as. if galan was here, he'd know.

Galan wouldn't know any more certain than us.

What Galan would have is Galan's interpretation, which is the only thing Galan treats as a fact.....Galan.

Joking aside, it was some sort of energy form. It must have been him, or a piece of his spirit/mind, or it would not have been able to speak and so on. So Thor can affect it.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Galan wouldn't know any more certain than us.

What Galan would have is Galan's interpretation, which is the only thing Galan treats as a fact.....Galan.

Joking aside, it was some sort of energy form. It must have been him, or a piece of his spirit/mind, or it would not have been able to speak and so on. So Thor can affect it.

i trust galan more than anyone when it comes to final crisis, but maybe thats just me.

ok, lets say for arguments sake that he can. what would he do?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Galan wouldn't know any more certain than us.

What Galan would have is Galan's interpretation, which is the only thing Galan treats as a fact.....Galan.
lol

Originally posted by -Pr-
i trust galan more than anyone when it comes to final crisis, but maybe thats just me.

ok, lets say for arguments sake that he can. what would he do?

Why do you not understand that Thor would be able to affect him? It doesn't matter what we think it was, because there's a limit to how many different things it can be. He's already affected time, soul, mind and everything else in the damned book. Get out of denial already.

It's impossible for Thor to do anything though. If he could contain Darkseid that wouldn't change anything, and he can't sing like Superman.

Thor might be able to interact with his spirit but he couldn't dispel Darkseid. Darkseid as a God seemed to be operating on a much higher (multiversal) level than Thor ever does. Darkseid's essence would just consume the Godling.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Thor might be able to interact with his spirit but he couldn't dispel Darkseid. Darkseid as a God seemed to be operating on a much higher (multiversal) level than Thor ever does. Darkseid's essence would just consume the Godling.

It couldn't consume Superman.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Why do you not understand that Thor would be able to affect him? It doesn't matter what we think it was, because there's a limit to how many different things it can be. He's already affected time, soul, mind and everything else in the damned book. Get out of denial already.

It's impossible for Thor to do anything though. If he could contain Darkseid that wouldn't change anything, and he can't sing like Superman.

what did i deny?

so you're arguing for a course of action that ultimately wouldn't work?

Originally posted by -Pr-
what did i deny?

so you're arguing for a course of action that ultimately wouldn't work?

I'm trying to get you to understand that there isn't a thing which Mjolnir can't affect. It's impossible to gauge what it took to destroy Darkseid in the end there. Superman could've done everything and nothing. Nobody here can get Darkseid to that stage anyways.

Why is this being argued. Obviously, DS wins.

He didn't want to. He wanted to leave Superman all by himself. There is a entire speech for that

Originally posted by xJLxKing
He didn't want to. He wanted to leave Superman all by himself. There is a entire speech for that

No, he wanted to turn Superman into an enemy of the world's population, which he did.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
No, he wanted to turn Superman into an enemy of the world's population, which he did.
My point still stand. He never targeted Superman

DS would have to take a host in order for this to be a fight or else what the hell are they fighting. DS takes a host and the hosts body gets killed in micro seconds. Team wins.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I'm trying to get you to understand that there isn't a thing which Mjolnir can't affect. It's impossible to gauge what it took to destroy Darkseid in the end there. Superman could've done everything and nothing. Nobody here can get Darkseid to that stage anyways.

so mjolnir has never met anything it can't affect, is what you're saying?

Originally posted by -Pr-
so mjolnir has never met anything it can't affect, is what you're saying?

It has met things it's not strong enough to harm, but Mjolnir or its attacks will touch anything.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
It has met things it's not strong enough to harm, but Mjolnir or its attacks will touch anything.

forgive me for asking, but what difference is that going to make?

Originally posted by -Pr-
forgive me for asking, but what difference is that going to make?

Against an opponent he can't harm, none.

But like I said before, it's impossible to tell how much it would take to kill Darkseid.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Against an opponent he can't harm, none.

But like I said before, it's impossible to tell how much it would take to kill Darkseid.

that's true.

Except, DS can just enter their bodies and take control.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i don't think there are that many unknown variables. is the thread fair? no.



we know darkseid wasn't just intangible. so tell me: how would thor have hurt FC darkseid? This is the exactly what I was referring to. Originally posted by -Pr-
which i didn't deny.

it's the proporites of the non-corporeal darkseid that are in doubt. See, fc darkseid is too diffcult to debate. We really don't even know how this would play out. Morrison never showed us what he was capable of in combat to know what would work and what wouldn't work.