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Can somebody please answer me why Americans feel the need to throw together the phrase 'God and country' as if they're somehow related. The teachings of Jesus couldn't be more against the idea of patriotism and ownership. I mean lets be honest, Jesus was quite clearly a socialist, and modern America is all about making money. Pretty contradictory don't you think?

Not to mention most of the founding fathers despised religion.

AAAARRGHGHGAHGGHHGHGHAAHAHGA!!!

Whenever, I hear ANYTHING about all the morons in this country who are trying to make it basically a theocracy, I go crazy with rage and disgust. You are right on every single thing you have said. It's making me want to leave the ****ing country.

Originally posted by Dresta
Can somebody please answer me why Americans feel the need to throw together the phrase 'God and country' as if they're somehow related. The teachings of Jesus couldn't be more against the idea of patriotism and ownership. I mean lets be honest, Jesus was quite clearly a socialist, and modern America is all about making money. Pretty contradictory don't you think?

Not to mention most of the founding fathers despised religion.

Some forms of Christianity have very little to do with the teachings of Jesus. Many of the fundamentalists in the US follow the teachings of Paul and how he interpreted the words of Jesus.

'God and country' is a phrase used among conservatives to rally around.

Originally posted by King Kandy
AAAARRGHGHGAHGGHHGHGHAAHAHGA!!!

Whenever, I hear ANYTHING about all the morons in this country who are trying to make it basically a theocracy, I go crazy with rage and disgust. You are right on every single thing you have said. It's making me want to leave the ****ing country.

It's not really all that bad. You need to see more of the country. The everyday person in the US is basically good.

Crazy isn't it? You'd think that the country could somehow be traced back to groups of Puritans and missionaries sent over from Europe or something. But nope, it turns out that America's history begins with the signing of the Declaration of Independence where upon hundreds of thousands of people who thought exactly the the Founding Fathers were suddenly teleported into the nation.

American history is fvcking epic.

Originally posted by Dresta
Can somebody please answer me why Americans feel the need to throw together the phrase 'God and country' as if they're somehow related. The teachings of Jesus couldn't be more against the idea of patriotism and ownership. I mean lets be honest, Jesus was quite clearly a socialist, and modern America is all about making money. Pretty contradictory don't you think?

Not to mention most of the founding fathers despised religion.
WE AINT COMMIES YO!

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It's not really all that bad. You need to see more of the country. The everyday person in the US is basically good.
The everyday person in the US is really stupid. We can see this is political choices, economic choices, religion, media... i see the positive side of things but the more i read the more Norway seems like a great idea.

Originally posted by King Kandy
The everyday person in the US is really stupid. We can see this is political choices, economic choices, religion, media... i see the positive side of things but the more i read the more Norway seems like a great idea.

Then you need to stop reading what ever it is you are reading. Most people are not stupid, unless you only classify book learning as intelligent. Also, just because someone isn't of your political persuasion, does not mean they are stupid. To think that other people have to agree with you, or they are stupid is an ignorant point of view.

Would you prefer a dictatorship?

Originally posted by King Kandy
The everyday person in the US is really stupid. We can see this is political choices, economic choices, religion, media... i see the positive side of things but the more i read the more Norway seems like a great idea.

People are stupid everywhere. They are just stupid in different ways.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then you need to stop reading what ever it is you are reading. Most people are not stupid, unless you only classify book learning as intelligent. Also, just because someone isn't of your political persuasion, does not mean they are stupid. To think that other people have to agree with you, or they are stupid is an ignorant point of view.

Would you prefer a dictatorship?
You think christianity is stupid and almost everyone practices that... are you the one with the ignorant point of view now?

And when having a different political persuasion is harming me personally and (imo) the country as a whole, then yes it is time to gtfo.

Originally posted by King Kandy
You think christianity is stupid and almost everyone practices that... are you the one with the ignorant point of view now?

I don't think people are stupid. Do you get the difference?

Originally posted by King Kandy
And when having a different political persuasion is harming me personally and (imo) the country as a whole, then yes it is time to gtfo.

You sound like a tea bag Republican.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't think people are stupid. Do you get the difference?
You're obviously using a different definition than I am then. I'm talking about "people who hold stupid views".

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You sound like a tea bag Republican.
No, the problem there is instead of leaving the country, they want to stay and make everyone else conform to their views.

I really don't want to discuss this with you. You always get crazy whenever anyone tries to discuss politics with you.

Originally posted by King Kandy
You're obviously using a different definition than I am then. I'm talking about "people who hold stupid views".

People are filled with delusions.

Originally posted by King Kandy
No, the problem there is instead of leaving the country, they want to stay and make everyone else conform to their views...

I was just trying to tell you that both sides feel the same way these days. There is too much entrenched mentality in the US.

We are getting off topic.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Crazy isn't it? You'd think that the country could somehow be traced back to groups of Puritans and missionaries sent over from Europe or something. But nope, it turns out that America's history begins with the signing of the Declaration of Independence where upon hundreds of thousands of people who thought exactly the the Founding Fathers were suddenly teleported into the nation.

American history is fvcking epic. The values of the founding fathers are the values that America is based upon, most people however are too ignorant to realize what that is. The founding fathers are held in high regard by almost every 'patriotic' American yet they still don't know what they stand for. This is partly because of a poor and extremely subjective teaching of history, where the truth is completely ignored.

The English had the same religious views as was held in America at that time too you know, but then they got educated.

Originally posted by King Kandy
We are getting off topic.

Delusions and entrenched mentality are the reason people use phrases like 'God and country' without any consideration for what Jesus taught.

It seems like we are right on topic.

Unless you think this is just a bash the conservative Christian thread.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Delusions and entrenched mentality are the reason people use phrases like 'God and country' without any consideration for what Jesus taught.

It seems like we are right on topic.

Unless you think this is just a bash the conservative Christian thread.
You were switching the topic to "you are ignorant for calling people stupid" (wow that sounds so weird now).

I'm fine discussing christianity in america; I think it has a negative impact.

Originally posted by King Kandy
You were switching the topic to "you are ignorant for calling people stupid" (wow that sounds so weird now).

So, I can never get on your case? Then you can get on my case.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I'm fine discussing christianity in america; I think it has a negative impact.

Now we are off topic.

Originally posted by Dresta
The values of the founding fathers are the values that America is based upon,

The founding fathers could hardly have been less representative of the country's population. They are only the foundation of American government.

Originally posted by Dresta
The founding fathers are held in high regard by almost every 'patriotic' American yet they still don't know what they stand for.

This is true.

Originally posted by Dresta
The English had the same religious views as was held in America at that time too you know, but then they got educated.

England wasn't founded on evangelism while much of America's white population can be traced back to missionaries of one sort of another.

Originally posted by Dresta
Can somebody please answer me why Americans feel the need to throw together the phrase 'God and country' as if they're somehow related. The teachings of Jesus couldn't be more against the idea of patriotism and ownership. I mean lets be honest, Jesus was quite clearly a socialist, and modern America is all about making money. Pretty contradictory don't you think?

Not to mention most of the founding fathers despised religion.

I don't think the founding fathers depised religion. They were open to freedom of religion and worship what you like. As far as Jesus been a socialist...that is a stretch for me.

What you have are two things people stereotype and usually see as a negative. You have America and Christianity...to some this is a terrible combination. So, the question is this...how do you argue with a person that already made up their mind and sees us as a negative.

You can't....as someone said...people are stupid in different ways. Including non-relgious people.

Originally posted by WickedDynamite
I don't think the founding fathers depised religion. They were open to freedom of religion and worship what you like. As far as Jesus been a socialist...that is a stretch for me.

You are right, they did not despise religion in itself, more religious institutions.

And how is it a stretch :

1. Jesus owned nothing. 2. Jesus argued for the dissolution of the family and the establishment of communes. 3. Jesus loved all people regardless of ethnicity or class. 4. Jesus revolted against the imperial government, established religion and finance capitalism (usury). 5. Jesus taught that we should act as one body, one blood. 6. Jesus taught that his kingdom (ie nation state) is in the heart and not below the feet. 7. Jesus taught that we should fight for Justice and 'turn the other cheek' to petty morality. 8. Jesus was a laborer and a teacher. 9. Jesus practiced healing and forgiveness. 10. Jesus taught that you can't be an imperialist and a disciple at the same time.

Sounds like socialism to me. I'm sure you've heard the rich man/eye of a needle quote.

edit: Jefferson quote: "I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."
.

actually, from what I've heard, the founding fathers were split on issues of religion. The most often quoted have been found to be very suspicious of religious institutions (as was Stalin, states should probably be against institutions that compete with them for power), but were there not also very pious individuals who founded the nation?

And if not, what does that tell you about the founding fathers? They would have been diametric opposites to the people they ruled with regards to faith.

Also, they held slaves and oppressed women.

Originally posted by Dresta
You are right, they did not despise religion in itself, more religious institutions.

And how is it a stretch :

1. Jesus owned nothing. 2. Jesus argued for the dissolution of the family and the establishment of communes. 3. Jesus loved all people regardless of ethnicity or class. 4. Jesus revolted against the imperial government, established religion and finance capitalism (usury). 5. Jesus taught that we should act as one body, one blood. 6. Jesus taught that his kingdom (ie nation state) is in the heart and not below the feet. 7. Jesus taught that we should fight for Justice and 'turn the other cheek' to petty morality. 8. Jesus was a laborer and a teacher. 9. Jesus practiced healing and forgiveness. 10. Jesus taught that you can't be an imperialist and a disciple at the same time.

Sounds like socialism to me. I'm sure you've heard the rich man/eye of a needle quote.

edit: Jefferson quote: "I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."
.

you should look up what Kores has to say about Jesus and the Sword. Selective interpretations of any religious text can make whatever point you want it to.

Except those aren't selective interpretations, they're direct from the text, and a recurrent theme.

did you look up Koresh's interpretations of Jesus and the Sword?

or look for direct quotes from jesus about what to do to non-believes, your own family if they don't believe, or his thoughts on slavery.

they might be jesus quotes, but like all other things in the Bible, jesus quotes are full of contradictions. Hell, Revolutionary Theology should be enough to prove jesus isn't a pacifist.

The founding fathers were non christian, mostly. They weren't non religious, most all of them were Deists. And while not holding any special love for christianity, they had no problem with other people practicing it.

Originally posted by King Kandy
The founding fathers were non christian, mostly. They weren't non religious, most all of them were Deists. And while not holding any special love for christianity, they had no problem with other people practicing it.

I think it was more of a mix:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States

That's true. I was mostly counting the ones we consider the most important (most americans can name them).

I always get a kick when someone says "We say 'UNDER GOD' in the pledge rabble rabble rabble." Horray for history, not to mention the fact that it never specifies either.

Originally posted by King Kandy
That's true. I was mostly counting the ones we consider the most important (most americans can name them). Pretty sure Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin were two of the most important.

Originally posted by Dresta
Pretty sure Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin were two of the most important.
Yes, and they were both Deists... kind of the point I was making.