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anakin wasnt some "weak punk" who "couldnt control his emotions", what he is is EXTREMELY underated and his abilities are unrecognized, what he was before he lost his top-rail movement and speed to robotic 'enhancements' was a mother****ing hard knot beast, more skilled than dooku and obi-wan, and even mace windu, aside from a robotic right harm the force made his body a wrecking machine, physically he could lay mace, dooku and obi-wan down, he was younger, faster, stronger and dueled methodically in a violently fast manner

he cut a handful of trained jedi knights down, and cut padawans and younglings to pieces, he copied and even strenghtened dooku's saber techniques with his own knowledge and training in swordfighting, and then he used these improved techniques better than dooku used the original ones

fact is, mace windu is OVERATED BIG TIME, and gets his head choped off by pre-suit vader whe he's using half his skill

im callin' vader haters out, from wat ive the only people who think pre-suit vader wasnt as skilled as windu, also think windu beat sidious because he was a better duelist, ignorant to the fact that mace was escorted by 3 jedi masters, each able able to deal with a quadruple saber wielding killing machine known as grevious

without them, palps could have taken out mace with little effort

#1: Yoda
#2: Palps
#3: ANAKIN MOTHER ****ERS!!!

mace makes third in the jedi council, and is inferior to palps

this is not a debate, its a truth that some people need to hear

That load of crap made my eyes bleed.

Mace could solo Presuit Vader, familiar with Mace's saber style?

Originally posted by \\S//


this is not a debate, its a truth that some people need to hear


try to suck less.

Originally posted by \\S//
anakin wasnt some "weak punk" who "couldnt control his emotions", what he is is EXTREMELY underated and his abilities are unrecognized, what he was before he lost his top-rail movement and speed to robotic 'enhancements' was a mother****ing hard knot beast, more skilled than dooku and obi-wan, and even mace windu, aside from a robotic right harm the force made his body a wrecking machine, physically he could lay mace, dooku and obi-wan down, he was younger, faster, stronger and dueled methodically in a violently fast manner

he cut a handful of trained jedi knights down, and cut padawans and younglings to pieces, he copied and even strenghtened dooku's saber techniques with his own knowledge and training in swordfighting, and then he used these improved techniques better than dooku used the original ones

fact is, mace windu is OVERATED BIG TIME, and gets his head choped off by pre-suit vader whe he's using half his skill

im callin' vader haters out, from wat ive the only people who think pre-suit vader wasnt as skilled as windu, also think windu beat sidious because he was a better duelist, ignorant to the fact that mace was escorted by 3 jedi masters, each able able to deal with a quadruple saber wielding killing machine known as grevious

without them, palps could have taken out mace with little effort

#1: Yoda
#2: Palps
#3: ANAKIN MOTHER ****ERS!!!

mace makes third in the jedi council, and is inferior to palps

this is not a debate, its a truth that some people need to hear

Originally posted by \\S//

without them, palps could have taken out mace with little effort

mace makes third in the jedi council, and is inferior to palps

this is not a debate, its a truth that some people need to hear

You mean the 10 seconds he required to kill Fisto, Kolar and Tiin would have done the trick? Mace defeated Palpatine in that duel with superior saber skill. Palpatine was holding back during the whole force lightning part, but not before.

This is a debate, you're being .... ignorant.

Yeah, this hasn't been done before.

w8

w8alittlemore

w8alittlebitfreakingmore...damn

w8alittlebitfreakingmore...jesusgawddamnitonastick!!!

**** this

Originally posted by \S//
anakin wasnt some "weak punk" who "couldnt control his emotions", what he is is EXTREMELY underated and his abilities are unrecognized, what he was before he lost his top-rail movement and speed to robotic 'enhancements' was a mother****ing hard knot beast, more skilled than dooku and obi-wan, and even mace windu, aside from a robotic right harm the force made his body a wrecking machine, physically he could lay mace, dooku and obi-wan down, he was younger, faster, stronger and dueled methodically in a violently fast manner

he cut a handful of trained jedi knights down, and cut padawans and younglings to pieces, he copied and even strenghtened dooku's saber techniques with his own knowledge and training in swordfighting, and then he used these improved techniques better than dooku used the original ones

fact is, mace windu is OVERATED BIG TIME, and gets his head choped off by pre-suit vader whe he's using half his skill

im callin' vader haters out, from wat ive the only people who think pre-suit vader wasnt as skilled as windu, also think windu beat sidious because he was a better duelist, ignorant to the fact that mace was escorted by 3 jedi masters, each able able to deal with a quadruple saber wielding killing machine known as grevious

without them, palps could have taken out mace with little effort

#1: Yoda
#2: Palps
#3: ANAKIN MOTHER ****ERS!!!

mace makes third in the jedi council, and is inferior to palps

this is not a debate, its a truth that some people need to hear

...

GL stated that only Yoda and Mace could stand up to Sidious in the PT.

Mace Windu has more skill.
He has more experience.
He is smarter.
He has a greater command in the Force.
He has comparable strength.

Originally posted by \\S//
he copied and even strenghtened dooku's saber techniques with his own knowledge and training in swordfighting, and then he used these improved techniques better than dooku used the original ones


Where did u get this from?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
...

GL stated that only Yoda and Mace could stand up to Sidious in the PT.

Yeah but he didnt say Only Yoda or Sidious can stand up to Mace.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
...Mace Windu has more skill.

Debatable.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
...He has more experience.

So did Dooku. Didnt help him.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
...He is smarter..

Debatable.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
He has a greater command in the Force.


True. But again, so did Dooku, but that didnt help him.


I see Mace winning due to Vapaad using Anakin's anger against him. But thats it. Thats the only reason i see Mace winning.

Your saying "Mace is smarter" is debatable? Somehow i don't see Mace getting dismembered as carelessly as Anakin did, that wasn't a very smart move was it?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah but he didnt say Only Yoda or Sidious can stand up to Mace.




Yeah but he did indeed say that only Yoda and Mace can stand up to Sidious, NOT only Yoda, Mace and Anakin/Vader...that says something.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER



Debatable.



Like below, he has more experience (which contributes HEAVILY to skill), has a high level mastery of most forms, invented his own form that is arguably the deadliest of them all, and such. He also beat Sidious in a duel, which Vader wouldn't be able to do.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER




So did Dooku. Didnt help him.




That's because Anakin tapped into the DS AND managed to control it:

Mace's Vapaad however would simply use that against Vader if he tried to use it, which Vader obviously would. However, Vader isn't as controled as Anakin, so he wouldn't control AND his anger would work AGAINST him via Vapaad.

WAIT...oh, I see the last part of your post. Even without the anti-DS power of Vapaad, Mace Windu is much more skill and command of the force. Pre suit Vader is also reckless.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER




Debatable.




Vader isn't nearly as smart as Mace. This is pretty obvious.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER




True. But again, so did Dooku, but that didnt help him.


I see Mace winning due to Vapaad using Anakin's anger against him. But thats it. Thats the only reason i see Mace winning.

Pre suit Vader isn't as powerful as "in teh zone" Anakin. Dooku would handily beat pre suit Vader.

What about Mace being able to outduel Sidious and being able to crush super battle droids with his bare hands?

Overall, the only two advantages that Vader has are greater strength and raw Force reserves.

Yet again HWKA were agreeing on soemthing this change of events is beginning to worry me. To a small degree.

Originally posted by mattatom
Yet again HWKA were agreeing on soemthing this change of events is beginning to worry me. To a small degree.

Your grammar fails, but you agree with me, so you're cool.

Originally posted by mattatom
Your saying "Mace is smarter" is debatable? Somehow i don't see Mace getting dismembered as carelessly as Anakin did, that wasn't a very smart move was it?

Anakin was outsmarted by Obi-wan there who is definetely smarter than mace. the ROTS novel calls Obi-wan "the Council's most cunning warrior"


Hed already lost the fight before he made the jump.. "its over anakin, i have the high gorund.."

making the jump was less to do with intellect and more to do with arrogance and frustration at not being able to defeat his old master.. at a point where his mental focus was probably at the weakest it had ever been during that fight.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Yeah but he did indeed say that only Yoda and Mace can stand up to Sidious, NOT only Yoda, Mace and Anakin/Vader...that says something.

Actually if you read the whole quote, it continues "Anakin would have defeated the emporer had he not got all beat up"

also you have to remember Vapaad'ds advantage on darksiders is what allows him to compete with Sidious. He couldnt for example compete anywhere near as well against Yoda who was virtually Sidious's equal.



Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Like below, he has more experience (which contributes HEAVILY to skill), has a high level mastery of most forms, invented his own form that is arguably the deadliest of them all, and such. He also beat Sidious in a duel, which Vader wouldn't be able to do..

In RODV we are told Vader is trained in ALL lightsaber forms. This was not long after ROTS. Also Anakin is "as fine a user of Djem So as Dooku has ever seen"... Djem So like makashi is the only other sword form designed for duelling. But focuses more on raw power than makashi. its a powerful duelling form, so i wuldnt underestimate anakins duelling skill.



Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
That's because Anakin tapped into the DS AND managed to control it:

Mace's Vapaad however would simply use that against Vader if he tried to use it, which Vader obviously would. However, Vader isn't as controled as Anakin, so he wouldn't control AND his anger would work AGAINST him via Vapaad...

He taps into his rage quite natuarlly. According to Dooku he was "half sith already.."

he was simply too powerful for Dooku.. The novel makes that very clear.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Even without the anti-DS power of Vapaad, Mace Windu is much more skill and command of the force. Pre suit Vader is also reckless....

He certainly has better command of the force.. theres no doubt about that.. but im not convinced about duelling skill. I think people really underestimate Anakin's duelling skill on these boards. Reckless??



Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Vader isn't nearly as smart as Mace. This is pretty obvious.....


HOws it obvious that Mace is much smarter than Anakin?? Do you not watch CW... How many epidoes does Anakin come up with an unorthodox plan on the spot which saves the day?? how often has Mace done that..

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Pre suit Vader isn't as powerful as "in teh zone" Anakin. Dooku would handily beat pre suit Vader......

Last time i checked "in teh zone" Anakin was pre-suit Anakin. Also I dnt buy this idea that was a one off for Anakin... I think he was more powerful than Dooku at that point.. Although after his visions of Padme began his mental focus probably wasnt quite there.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
What about Mace being able to outduel Sidious and being able to crush super battle droids with his bare hands?

Ouduelling Sidious was not due to superior skill or power. It was due to Vapaad's advantage over darksiders. Iv already admitted Mace would win for this reason.. Im just saying in terms of duelling skill and raw power Anakin is in league with Mace. Well at least he was eventually. Probably not at CW time period.

Yes Mace's command of the force was certainly superior, but once an intense duel begins that might not help. It didnt help Dooku, when Anakin was all over him (Dooku who disposes on Obiwan with a mere flick of the wrist) and it didnt seem to help sidious during his duel with Mace... Only when the duel was over and sidious was on the floor did he begin to unleash his force powers.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Anakin was outsmarted by Obi-wan there who is definetely smarter than mace. the ROTS novel calls Obi-wan "the Council's most cunning warrior"


Hed already lost the fight before he made the jump.. "its over anakin, i have the high gorund.."

making the jump was less to do with intellect and more to do with arrogance and frustration at not being able to defeat his old master.. at a point where his mental focus was probably at the weakest it had ever been during that fight. Okay so Anakin lost the fight because Obi Wan said so? That doesn't work I can't really stand on top of a car in front of Tyson and say that. He won't just say, damn I can't reach you, It's over. Your arguing semantics, Anakin could have jumped further down the hill he could of gone around the side, he could of tried to pull Obi Wan off but no his 'smart' move cost him the rest of his organic extremities.

Originally posted by mattatom
Okay so Anakin lost the fight because Obi Wan said so? That doesn't work I can't really stand on top of a car in front of Tyson and say that. He won't just say, damn I can't reach you, It's over. Your arguing semantics, Anakin could have jumped further down the hill he could of gone around the side, he could of tried to pull Obi Wan off but no his 'smart' move cost him the rest of his organic extremities.

Thats your opinion that he "could of" done those things.. Ill trust Obiwan's opinion over yours, who was clearly confident that the fight was over at that point.. Obiwan whose "the most cunning warrior on the jedi council" according to ROTS novel..
And who is an expert at using his terrain to his advantage during battle. Id say his is a very well qualified opinion to take on what a jedi is capable off in that position.

and you dnt seem to be listening.. the jump was out of arrogance and frsutration that hed lost the fight against Obiwan... Hed already lost.. It was make the jump or surrender. That was the only choice. There was no other choice.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
and you dnt seem to be listening.. the jump was out of arrogance and frsutration that hed lost the fight against Obiwan... Hed already lost.. It was make the jump or surrender. That was the only choice. There was no other choice.

HAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!




No.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Thats your opinion that he "could of" done those things.. Ill trust Obiwan's opinion over yours, who was clearly confident that the fight was over at that point.. Obiwan whose "the most cunning warrior on the jedi council" according to ROTS novel..
And who is an expert at using his terrain to his advantage during battle. Id say his is a very well qualified opinion to take on what a jedi is capable off in that position.

and you dnt seem to be listening.. the jump was out of arrogance and frsutration that hed lost the fight against Obiwan... Hed already lost.. It was make the jump or surrender. That was the only choice. There was no other choice. It wasn't an opinion it was a fact. He COULD of done those things, he just chose not to. Oh Surrender? You know sith are cunning? "Yes Obi Wan I will surrender back stabs Obi Wan* Fool." Because we've never seen sith lie before have we!? *mock gasp*

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
HAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!




No.

QFT

Where did it say that at. I seem to remember it also calling Shaak Ti the finest swordsman.

You can not be serious by saying Obi Wan is smarter than Mace? Wonder why Yoda thought it wouldn't even be worth the effort for Obi Wan to fight Sidious.

Anakin is not as skilled as Mace, nor as powerful.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_9xzhrPA6veI/SmA9QH6QdXI/AAAAAAAACB0/Udl0LMNtTn0/s400/wtf+is+this+shit+piccard.jpg

In the zone anakin>>>>>>>>>Everyone!!!!111eleven11!!!!!1.111...x10^11!!!

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

You can not be serious by saying Obi Wan is smarter than Mace?



I believe this is stated in ROTS. Perhaps another source.



Because cunning hardly means powerful. Surely you can see the difference in those two words.



Agreed.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Actually if you read the whole quote, it continues "Anakin would have defeated the emporer had he not got all beat up"

also you have to remember Vapaad'ds advantage on darksiders is what allows him to compete with Sidious. He couldnt for example compete anywhere near as well against Yoda who was virtually Sidious's equal.





I think that means that Anakin would EVENTUALLY surpass Sidious had he not been burned, but not at the moment.

Sorry, don't have time to discuss other points...

Lucas said "had he not got all beat up?" Could i get a link to that please? Not only does it not make any sense, its poor grammar.

Originally posted by truejedi
Lucas said "had he not got all beat up?" Could i get a link to that please? Not only does it not make any sense, its poor grammar. That's not what GL said TJ. It's basically the general idea of If Anakin hadn't had the incident on mustafar, he would have surpassed Sidious.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
I think that means that Anakin would EVENTUALLY surpass Sidious had he not been burned, but not at the moment.

Sorry, don't have time to discuss other points...

No worries.

I know what people "think" and "assume" he meant.. im just pointing out that unless we can sit with george and ask exactly what he meant we cant really take everything he says a face value...
For example in one quote he says OT Vader is useless cause hes basicllay a cripple, but then in another quote he says OT Vader is 80% as Powerful as OT Sidious.

Anyway doesnt matter i agree Mace is better with the Force so wins the Force fight, and I agree Mace wins Sabers since Vapaad would be the end of Anakin's Rage.

All im saying is anyone powerful enough to take out Dooku should be in Mace's league in terms of Power and Skill (in Saber fight at least).

Originally posted by truejedi
Lucas said "had he not got all beat up?" Could i get a link to that please? Not only does it not make any sense, its poor grammar.

actually i think he does say it exactly like that in the making of ROTS.. Iv got it at home so ill have to look it up later.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I know what people "think" and "assume" he meant.. im just pointing out that unless we can sit with george and ask exactly what he meant we cant really take everything he says a face value...
For example in one quote he says OT Vader is useless cause hes basicllay a cripple, but then in another quote he says OT Vader is 80% as Powerful as OT Sidious. Were both statements made concurrently, or at different periods of time? The policy with contradictory canon material is to take the most recent work as the assumed event (at least until it's officially settled), the same can be applied to statements. Lucas' opinions towards Vader or Sidious at one point in time, say during 1999, could have changed circa 2005.

Vader is more powerful, hands down. Unfortunately, Mace Windu's experience, and Vaapad would probably put Anakin down.

Anakin is arguably just as skilled with a blade as Mace Windu, as demonstrated when he literally disarms Count Dooku in 10 seconds, and cuts down Cin Drallig with one hand while using the other to Force choke his padawan. He's a master of a form devoted specifically to saber dueling, so I can't see him going down easily -- at the least. He'd be a fierce opponent for Windu.

In terms of power, Anakin is confirmed to be greater than 80% of the Emperor. He's stated to be stronger than OT Vader, and, from the way its described, by far:



His abilities with TK are shown to be majorly impressive, such as when he brings down a 200 ft. statue, and lobs the gigantic headpiece through 200 ft., durasteel-reinforced doors with enough force to continue traveling nigh undiminished during Knightfall.

---

The simple fact is that the ROTS novelization covers everything needed to know about Anakin's psyche, and how it effects his power. If you have any questions about that, read the entirety of the passages below, and not breeze through it.

So, you're going to say, "ADVENT, COME ON. SERIOUSLY?! SERIOUSLY?! ANAKIN HAS NEVER SHOWN HIMSELF TO BE THAT STRONG!". Then, you have to understand something:



What makes Dooku, Yoda, Mace, Sidious, and all other powerhouses so strong is that they can DIRECT the Force, bend it to their will; whereas guys like Obi-Wan, Kit Fisto, Qui-Gon, let the Force guide their actions.

Now, Anakin, during the beginning of the duel was letting the Force guide him, as seen above. But, halfway through, he INSTINCTIVELY learns how to direct the Force. That is why "his decision was reality", that is why "the boy was a natural", and that is why "even knowledge of the Force had become a joke". The proof that he had achieved such a command over the Force would be this:



So, ROTS Anakin is at a level that we've never seen at any point before in his life. You could say the process was similar to the way Goku becomes a Super Saiyan against Frieza.

Or, you might say, "BUT, ADVENT, OBI-WAN DID TEH FORCE PUSH STALEMATE!". Well, there were actually two fights going on at Mustafar. One was between Anakin and Obi-Wan, and the other was between Anakin and Anakin in his head. After he slaughtered the Separatists on Mustafar, we see him crying. It is elaborated upon in the novel that the weakness he had, his greatest fear, came to bite him in the ass. See here:



Anakin's fear was something he shed when he was fighting Dooku, and, when he was executing Order 66. It rears its ugly head, though, before he ends up fighting Obi-Wan. This is why he didn't whoop Kenobi's ass more so than he did, and made that arrogant mistake at the end of the duel. He couldn't maintain the mindset that he had before, which was "I'm doing this to protect Padme". Hence, why he ends up choking her out. That wasn't Vader in his prime vs. Obi-Wan, it was a broken, confused, and mentally imbalanced man fully warped by the dark side vs. Obi-Wan.

The last line in that passage is important, because that is what messes Anakin up so much. The fact that everything dies, and you can't stop it. The fact that he'll lose everything he loves one day. Padme. Obi-Wan. Himself. It's "the dragon", described here:



It is what made him imbalanced against Obi-Wan. It's why he lost. His actions during Knightfall were something he regretted after the fact. He regretted them, because as George Lucas has stated, it was after the fact that the light side inside himself caused him to struggle over what he'd done (hence, the crying).

The Chosen One was mentally disturbed, because of his tragic past. This passage details that, as well as why Anakin fell to the dark side. He couldn't detach himself from his feelings. It explains the type of deranged mindset that he had against Obi-Wan.

^ That happens to be my favorite passages from the novel, as well! It's saddening, but true.

---

With all that out of the way, Mace still probably wins more often than not due to Vaapad, and possibly shatterpoint if he can find one exploitable in combat.

He couldn't use the Force to pry open a damn door in Labyrinth of Evil, and was visibly frustrated at the futility of doing so -- summoning a demolitions team instead.

The Complete Star Wars Enyclopedia makes it abundantly clear that the only way one can achieve a proficient command of the Force is through meditation, training, and study. Anakin Skywalker was about the farthest thing from a scholar as one can get. His natural connection to the Force clearly afforded him greater power than most, but someone like Yoda or Palpatine would hand Anakin -- in his prime or unbalanced -- his ass. It would be an effortless curbstomp. Let's not get carried away flaunting his powers. It's inconsistent and hazardous; he has no control or technique whatsoever.

Originally posted by Gideon
The Complete Star Wars Enyclopedia makes it abundantly clear that the only way one can achieve a proficient command of the Force is through meditation, training, and study.

That would only qualify meditation, training, and study as requirements for a proficient command of the Force, it doesn't expand on their value as factors for the extent of proficiency.

Anakin, as an individual who has been trained in the Jedi ways, most certainly meets that requirement, and as we've seen in a lot of cases in the Star Wars Mythology, comparatively high levels of natural ability and learning potential can prove to be far greater determinants than comparatively high levels of training and study in reaching a comparatively high level of ability (Darth Bane, Exar Kun, Nomi Sunrider, Ulic Qel-Droma etc).

Read the part about him being unable -- and frustrated at his failure -- to open a door. Later in the same book, he collapses the ceiling of an enormous room by a Force-amplified shout.

He is not refined. Palpatine and Yoda's technique are each lightyears ahead of Anakin's, and they would curbstomp him in a fight. His natural ability only allows him to be a threat in certain circumstances; it's the exception, not the rule.

I give it to Pre-Suit Anakin. he defeated Dooku who was roughly the same skill as Mace Windu and note that Dooku had more experience.

Mace Windu has Vaapad but Anakin is also a Master at his own style Djem So. It would not be a curbstomp for either one but I say Anakin gets it because Mace Windu severely underestimates Anakin and refuses to notice his potential. So Anakin has the element of suprise

Originally posted by Gideon
He couldn't use the Force to pry open a damn door in Labyrinth of Evil, and was visibly frustrated at the futility of doing so -- summoning a demolitions team instead.


And yet at other times he can crush a room with a mere scream. Just because his TK is inconsistent in the extent of its power doesnt mean we just completely ignore it.

At his most conflicted he matched Obi-wan in a force contest.. So his offensive Force powers are at least a match for Obi-wans. However at times he has shown his TK to be beyond his master's by fair bit....

For example besides force crushing Durasteel with his scream, Hes also completley dominated Ventress with the Force, trapping her in cables and electrocuting her. She had no power to stop him. He also used the Force quite a bit when he killed Durge first by Forcing explosives on him, then by Forcing him into a pod and forcing the pod into a star.

Finally he took many Force attacks off Dooku during the CW movie and kept getting back up and kept on fighting.. Weve seen in ROTS Obiwan cant take the same beating from Dooku's Force attacks. That speaks volumes for Anakin's natural Force defences. And if you read the ROTS novel once Anakin decided to win against Dooku, Dooku actually did try using the Force on him. He used his TK to chuck something at Anakin which Anakin "Simply Smashed Aside."

Everything iv wrote here is just fact, seen either on screen or in some other cannon source. But the conclusion you make of it is up2 u. But to just discard Anakins TK feats completely when comparing him to a powerhouse like Windu is frankly quite biased and not Objective reasoning.

Originally posted by Gideon
Palpatine and Yoda's technique are each lightyears ahead of Anakin's, and they would curbstomp him in a fight.

No one claimed Anakin to be a match in the Force for Yoda or the Emporer. Where did they come from. Even Windu or Dooku would get curbstomped by Yoda or the Emporer in a Pure Force Fight.

Originally posted by MasterAshenVor
I give it to Pre-Suit Anakin. he defeated Dooku who was roughly the same skill as Mace Windu and note that Dooku had more experience.

Mace Windu has Vaapad but Anakin is also a Master at his own style Djem So. It would not be a curbstomp for either one but I say Anakin gets it because Mace Windu severely underestimates Anakin and refuses to notice his potential. So Anakin has the element of suprise

I severely underestimate RN's helping skills and refuse to notice his potential. Does that mean he is a better helper than me? => No. Logic fail. Besides, Mace Windu certainly acknowledges Anakin's strength in the Force.

Sorry Nemesis, just needed a good example.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And yet at other times he can crush a room with a mere scream. Just because his TK is inconsistent in the extent of its power doesnt mean we just completely ignore it.

At his most conflicted he matched Obi-wan in a force contest.. So his offensive Force powers are at least a match for Obi-wans. However at times he has shown his TK to be beyond his master's by fair bit....

For example besides force crushing Durasteel with his scream, Hes also completley dominated Ventress with the Force, trapping her in cables and electrocuting her. She had no power to stop him. He also used the Force quite a bit when he killed Durge first by Forcing explosives on him, then by Forcing him into a pod and forcing the pod into a star.

Finally he took many Force attacks off Dooku during the CW movie and kept getting back up and kept on fighting.. Weve seen in ROTS Obiwan cant take the same beating from Dooku's Force attacks. That speaks volumes for Anakin's natural Force defences. And if you read the ROTS novel once Anakin decided to win against Dooku, Dooku actually did try using the Force on him. He used his TK to chuck something at Anakin which Anakin "Simply Smashed Aside."

Everything iv wrote here is just fact, seen either on screen or in some other cannon source. But the conclusion you make of it is up2 u. But to just discard Anakins TK feats completely when comparing him to a powerhouse like Windu is frankly quite biased and not Objective reasoning. It's not about disregarding his feats, it's about negating the perception that he has a refined technique of telekinesis. Like his mood and personality, his command over his powers swings between studious and being a result of coarse impulse. Anakin has the raw power necessary to complete such arduous tasks, but he often times lacks the discipline and patience to see it through.

in short: He couldn't do really powerful things on demand. Really necessary to do them on demand when fighting.