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For kicks. Who wins between these two?

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann was the last mech that lagann turned into, is 10 million light years in height and punches through galaxies like they're nothing.

Vegito is (apparantly) the strongest DBZ character, as a quick google pointed out.

Fight!

http://www.freewebs.com/dbz-maailma/vegito%20ssj1.jpg

Super Vegito (maybe)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_sqZsRAg08s8/SYUD-NiZhkI/AAAAAAAAAlo/v_eC1hqXjbc/s400/TengenToppaGurren-LagannMECH.jpg

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. (west sidiiied)

For something that was able to hold against the Big Bang, and tank galaxies having been throw at then I don't see Vegito winning this.

This is going to be very, very amusing.

Thats what I thought!

But only two bites.... *mopes*

Anyway, I was thinking that Vegito would have maybe a manouverability advantage, or perhaps he could try to take out Simon. But yeah mostly this was for the lol factor of having a 6 ft tall character take on one whos 10 millon lightyears tall. Plus I wanted to have TTGL in a fight.

I'd like to see how Vegito can fight something that's bigger than not just one galaxy but a dozen. Is Team Gurren even gonna notice he's attacking them? I don't think he'll even make a dent on that thing.

Him attacking that Gurren would be like someone firing a squirt gun at a tank: no damage would be taken.

And besides, powerful enough to destroy galaxies>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>powerful enough to blow up a planet.

This is a major spite thread

Dude, just what in the world did you think when you created this thread? TTGL throws a Galaxy like a shuriken. Let alone Giga Drill Breaker which is much more powerful than a galaxy throw. Vegito will be destroyed very very badly like a bug.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
I'd like to see how Vegito can fight something that's bigger than not just one galaxy but a dozen. Is Team Gurren even gonna notice he's attacking them? I don't think he'll even make a dent on that thing.

Him attacking that Gurren would be like someone firing a squirt gun at a tank: no damage would be taken.

And besides, powerful enough to destroy galaxies>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>powerful enough to blow up a planet. worse; it's be like firing a mono-atom stream at a star.

TTGL moves foward by the slightest amount and kills Vegito on impact.

the gravity alone would tear him apart

How could Tengen even notice he's there? It'd be like me picking a fight with a proton.

Your responses are priceless, this was totally worth it.

I'm slightly disappointed. Come on DBZ fans where are you?

In the past I've seen hilarious DBZ versus Gurren Lagann arguments. My favourite being Buu turning it in to candy.

Still the whole target the pilots thing is flawed. How does Vegeto know there are pilots. How can he sense their Ki when they're sitting inside a giant spiral energy construct? It'd be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

Vegito is a like small drop of dirt compare to TTGL. Super Gurren Lagann would be a better match up.

BURN THE HEAVENS!

Doesn't Vegito know Instant Transmission?

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
I'm slightly disappointed. Come on DBZ fans where are you?

In the past I've seen hilarious DBZ versus Gurren Lagann arguments. My favourite being Buu turning it in to candy.

Still the whole target the pilots thing is flawed. How does Vegeto know there are pilots. How can he sense their Ki when they're sitting inside a giant spiral energy construct? It'd be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

Black hair Goku 8/10

Originally posted by Overdose
Doesn't Vegito know Instant Transmission? Exactly how would that aid him in battle against a foe that is large enough to chuck galaxies like frisbees?

in the anime it showed the IT as lightspeed travel. it takes light 8 minutes to get from the sun to our earth, and billions of years to cross the milky way galaxy......so yeah, it won't amount to jack shit even if it's speed was multiplied by a thousand.

It is actually not lightspeed, it is instantaneous, Goku has traveled across the galaxy and even other dimensions with it.

Originally posted by carver9
Black hair Goku 8/10

Now that's the sort of thing I came for!

Vegito is like a drop of water in an ocean.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Vegito is like a drop of water in an ocean. ...on a planet not unlike waterworld (covered in water), in a galaxy full of waterworlds, in a mega-cluster of those same galaxies.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Exactly how would that aid him in battle against a foe that is large enough to chuck galaxies like frisbees? Size aint er thang when the giant thing you face off against has humans in the cockpit (David and Goliath, except Goliath is like 10 trillion times larger and David is like 10 trillion times more powerful) And the guy your facin' can move across the universe instantly and can sense power levels from across the universe. Hell, weaker fools can sense power when they're in Heaven, dead, and when the guy there sensing is on earth. Tengen Toppa is still pretty phuckin huge and it's easy to see why many would claim him for instant victory but I think it's pretty unfair to start creatin' imaginary limits on Vegito simply cuz we REALLY like Gurren Laggan.

Can't really say who wins cuz we don't know the limits of Vegito's power. But that's just what a KMC poster looks like when they keep it real.

You do know that you can't teleport into Super Spiral space when TTGL exists, right? The Anti-Spiral teleported onto the bridge of their ship but when they formed TTGL he couldn't.

How so? TTGL tank two galaxies throw at him, and no one in DBZGT can tank something that approximately 100000 years long. Marvel wise, TTGL is way above skyfather (TTGL would likely beat Odin and Surtur).

Originally posted by Endless Mike
You do know that you can't teleport into Super Spiral space when TTGL exists, right? The Anti-Spiral teleported onto the bridge of their ship but when they formed TTGL he couldn't. Where does it say that you can't teleport inside the TTGL? So we are to assume that because The Anti-Spiral could not do it, Vegito can't either. The TTGL is like an Anti-Spiral killer, existing to destroy Anti Spirals so why should everything an Anti Spiral do apply to everyone else in the googleplex of anime universes?

Also, Goku had already explained that IT isn't really teleporting anyway. Forgot what he said it was. Besides, not sayin' that Vegito is gonna IT onto the bridge. I'm suggesting that he IT right in Simon's face and kill'em wit a power up.

Then again, I really don't know what Vegito can do so maybe he wont. There is very lil evidence on what Vegito is like at full power so I can't suggest anything.

TTGL is too big for the KMC arena, Vegito wins via technicality

Originally posted by Overdose
Size aint er thang when the giant thing you face off against has humans in the cockpit (David and Goliath, except Goliath is like 10 trillion times larger and David is like 10 trillion times more powerful) And the guy your facin' can move across the universe instantly and can sense power levels from across the universe. Hell, weaker fools can sense power when they're in Heaven, dead, and when the guy there sensing is on earth. Tengen Toppa is still pretty phuckin huge and it's easy to see why many would claim him for instant victory but I think it's pretty unfair to start creatin' imaginary limits on Vegito simply cuz we REALLY like Gurren Laggan.

Can't really say who wins cuz we don't know the limits of Vegito's power. But that's just what a KMC poster looks like when they keep it real. Not a single thing you said proved Vegito had any advantage in this fight.

TTGL is a reality warper, so it can just make the arena big enough.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
fail

Originally posted by Overdose
Where does it say that you can't teleport inside the TTGL? So we are to assume that because The Anti-Spiral could not do it, Vegito can't either. The TTGL is like an Anti-Spiral killer, existing to destroy Anti Spirals so why should everything an Anti Spiral do apply to everyone else in the googleplex of anime universes?

Also, Goku had already explained that IT isn't really teleporting anyway. Forgot what he said it was. Besides, not sayin' that Vegito is gonna IT onto the bridge. I'm suggesting that he IT right in Simon's face and kill'em wit a power up.

Then again, I really don't know what Vegito can do so maybe he wont. There is very lil evidence on what Vegito is like at full power so I can't suggest anything.

How does Vegeto know Tengen Toppa Gurren lagann has pilots? How does it sense their energy amongst the maelstrom of spiral energy that makes up the super robot? Could Vegeto even sense a human from that far away? What stops TTGL attacking first?

Also you're expecting vegeto to fight smart. Smarts was never his strong point

Originally posted by Nephthys
TTGL is a reality warper, so it can just make the arena big enough.

Or he could make himself small enough for the arena .

It should still be a curbstomp though.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
fail
Typo, big guy. I'm sure you're all too familiar with those.

IT is teleportation, Goku explains it as teleportation and Buu says it's teleportation too. Furthermore the Anti-Spiral is a powerful reality warper who controlled his own dimension, if he can't teleport inside of TTGL what makes you think Vegeto can?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Or he could make himself small enough for the arena .

It should still be a curbstomp though.


Typo, big guy. I'm sure you're all too familiar with those. of coarse, that's how i spotted yours.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
of coarse, that's how i spotted yours.

Indeed, you have had loads of practice with your own.

LOL!

TTGL OWNS!

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Indeed, you have had loads of practice with your own.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by psycho gundam
fail reiterating for lulz

Smart comeback .

~ Though I don't think it was 'fail' as it was a typo, it still was lulzy .

Now now children, settle down.

You're the one who started a spite thread for kicks .

Originally posted by NemeBro
Not a single thing you said proved Vegito had any advantage in this fight. I never said Vegito had an advantage. I wasn't even talkin' to anybody nor did I say Vegito would even win in this thread when I 1st posted. All I'm sayin' is, Vegito hasn't been seen enough to actaully have an advantage over anyone. Yet er body just assumes that there are things Vegito can't do in a fight.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
How does Vegeto know Tengen Toppa Gurren lagann has pilots? How does it sense their energy amongst the maelstrom of spiral energy that makes up the super robot? Could Vegeto even sense a human from that far away? What stops TTGL attacking first?

Also you're expecting vegeto to fight smart. Smarts was never his strong point He doesn't have to know that he's even fightin' an impossibly large robot before he kills Simon.

I'm sure Vegito would know the difference between the chi of a man and some energy he's never felt before. That's like Goku not bein' able to sense Mystic Gohan from Heaven cuz there are too many stars around in the universe. I think if lil old Goku could feel Gohan from that far away, he would feel the malicious chi of a human, somehow sittin' in the middle of space wit the intent to kill him.

And It would prolly take TTGL a million years for its hand to even reach Vegito.

And now we are assuming that Vegito is an idiot based on what?

I suppose a diseased Nematode has no chance of killin' a human. A human is just to big to be effected.

Not even sayin Vegito is gonna win just how the Hell will TTGL even know Vegito exists?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
IT is teleportation, Goku explains it as teleportation and Buu says it's teleportation too. Furthermore the Anti-Spiral is a powerful reality warper who controlled his own dimension, if he can't teleport inside of TTGL what makes you think Vegeto can? Yeah, yeah, yeah...The Anti Spiral is Uber powerful so if it can't do it nothin' can. That's a story heard too often round these parts that focuses on power, instead of actual ability.

Vegito has better chances cuz IT uses the chi of his foes as a guide. Goku also does not simply teleport, he travels as a mass of light to his destination, now your sayin that TTGL's presence prohibits light speed travel and beyond. We also know that IT allows Goku to reach impossible places like Heaven and Hell cuz he uses the chi of the Kais to guide him. I think that IT is VERY different from the simple unexplained teleportation we see the Anti-Spriral use.

Not sayin Vegito is gonna win. Just sayin we shouldn't start riddin' band waggons when we don't know all the facts.

Sorry 'bout the triple post. Somthin's gotta be done about these stupid time restrictions.

TTG wins this 10/10 but if he shrinks to vegito size then this is spite. Vegito would RAPE him and easily.

By the way, I know its not cannon but goku already fought a reality warper and did quite well against it and vegito entered and one shotted it. I think the reality warper is >>>ttg.

Originally posted by carver9
By the way, I know its not cannon but goku already fought a reality warper and did quite well against it and vegito entered and one shotted it. I think the reality warper is >>>ttg.

Was this reality warper as big as TTGL?

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Was this reality warper as big as TTGL?

I guess you didnt see the part where I said if he shrunk to vegito size.

TTGL lagann is extension of Simons and the others will and the potentially universe collapsing energy existing within the Dai gurren brigade.

I'm going to put forward that spiral energy is for all intents and purposes chi. Vegeto has no feats to show that he can separate a humans energy from a galaxy sized inferno of the same energy.



And this is the point where we realise you haven't seen the show. TTGL can leap between galaxies in moments. It is massively faster than light.



Anti spiral's achievements:

Conquering every sentient race in universe.
Convincing Earth's leader to wipe out his own armies and keep them
Created entire alternate realities to fight his enemies
underground for thousands of years.
Achieve goal of universe not dieing
God of own universe.
Caused death of heroes wife.

Vegeto's:

Beat up Buu
...



You're really going with the Goku is a ball of light thing? What are the crew of TTGL going to do with themselves in the millions of years it takes to reach them. Has Vegeto even used IT?




When he refuses to kill Buu to so that Buu would absorb him? This was to rescue Goku and Vegeto's friends and family The same friends and family which were left to die minutes after their rescue.

Good plan there.

Originally posted by Overdose
Yeah, yeah, yeah...The Anti Spiral is Uber powerful so if it can't do it nothin' can. That's a story heard too often round these parts that focuses on power, instead of actual ability.

Vegito has better chances cuz IT uses the chi of his foes as a guide. Goku also does not simply teleport, he travels as a mass of light to his destination

This is a dub line that is wrong, read the manga.

Also even if TTGL was the same size as Vegito it would still win due to the fact that it can regenerate infinitely and change probability.

Originally posted by carver9
By the way, I know its not cannon but goku already fought a reality warper and did quite well against it and vegito entered and one shotted it. I think the reality warper is >>>ttg. And who is this reality warper?

Originally posted by carver9
By the way, I know its not cannon but goku already fought a reality warper and did quite well against it and vegito entered and one shotted it. I think the reality warper is >>>ttg.
I seriously doubt he was as powerful as TTGL was at Reality-Warping.
Originally posted by NemeBro
And who is this reality warper?

Janemba. At first I thought he was talking about Buuhan because he mentioned Vegito...so many wrong things with that though.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
TTGL lagann is extension of Simons and the others will and the potentially universe collapsing energy existing within the Dai gurren brigade.

I'm going to put forward that spiral energy is for all intents and purposes chi. Vegeto has no feats to show that he can separate a humans energy from a galaxy sized inferno of the same energy.



And this is the point where we realise you haven't seen the show. TTGL can leap between galaxies in moments. It is massively faster than light.



Anti spiral's achievements:

Conquering every sentient race in universe.
Convincing Earth's leader to wipe out his own armies and keep them
Created entire alternate realities to fight his enemies
underground for thousands of years.
Achieve goal of universe not dieing
God of own universe.
Caused death of heroes wife.

Vegeto's:

Beat up Buu
...



You're really going with the Goku is a ball of light thing? What are the crew of TTGL going to do with themselves in the millions of years it takes to reach them. Has Vegeto even used IT?




When he refuses to kill Buu to so that Buu would absorb him? This was to rescue Goku and Vegeto's friends and family The same friends and family which were left to die minutes after their rescue.

Good plan there. 1. If Piccolo can hear a specific beings voice through out the entire and Goku can lock on to King Kais energy from the living world, I don't see why Vegito can not do what you say he can't. It 's as if you've seen an episode of the show where Vegito has tried to feel out someones energy and failed. Have you?

2. I have seen every episode except for the last few. I admit that I have not seen the entire TTGL fight but I saw the last minutes on youtube and even watched the vid explaining his size. 'Course he can hop galaxy to galaxy, he's huge as hell. We are going to start the fight off where TTGL is in attack range and Vegito is not? Doesn't sound fair even if TTGL's range is farther.

3. Those are awesome achievements, I agree. But you make it sound as if Vegito has none because he is weak and not just because he's been in only 5 episodes of a nearly 300 episode anime. Again, creating false limitations based on nothing.

4.It is said that Goku turns into a ball of light, not that he travels at the same speed. We see Goku IT to New Namek instantly. Everyone knows that light can't go to another planet from earth in an instant. Also, it has been stated that Vegito knows all of Goku and Vegata's moves. Have you ever seen or read DBZ, at all?

5.We all know that act idiocy was not on Vegito's part but on the creators of the anime. Plus, he wasn't even Vegito anymore when they all died, It was just Goku. Can you give me another example?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
This is a dub line that is wrong, read the manga.

Also even if TTGL was the same size as Vegito it would still win due to the fact that it can regenerate infinitely and change probability. So we are going to go by the manga for one character even though he's fightin' someone who doesn't have a manga version...yet. Sounds kinda unfair to me.

So TTGL can survive being incinerated. If so, let me know cuz I haven't seen that.

Tengen definitely wins this easily.

Anti-spiral did not create the alternate realities though, he simply trapped the heroes within them. If he created the alternate realities then he would be capable of creating countless universes, which would put him way over the Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.

Can you name me a time Vegeto has tried to lock onto a humans ki with within an even larger amount of energy?You have no evidence that Vegeto is capable of this, only that he has never tried.




If you know he can hop from galaxy to galaxy why do you think it would take years for his fist to reach Vegeto? I think you're clutching at straws here.

These fights aren't supposed to fair. This isn't a sport.



You claimed Vegeto was better because he had 'ability' which Anti spiral lacked. I pointed out that Vegeto did nothing in his limited appearance, killing your argument.



Yet he never used half of them. Why should he suddenly decide to use them now? We're using the Vegeto who appeared in the show/manga not Vegeto as written by you.



Considering I summed up Vegeto's entire appearance in my post, no. Tell you what tell me when Vegeto did something smart.



Let me know when Vegeto can put out energy greater than the big bang.

If you are talking Janemba then he is really nothing specail in general since he only uses his RW powers in Hell, and we don't know if he can do it outside it or not. Even TTGL was smaller down then it still has a better chance on winning.

TTGL picking a fight with Vegito would be like me picking a fight with a germ. This fight isn't fair in anyway and might as well get closed (I'm surprised it hasn't even been done yet).

Ya'know, I see this will never go anywhere because people are ignoring the point I'm trying to make and I really don't feel like arguing over what anime character can beat who anymore. I will state my central point/OPINION and be done with this...

Idk who will win because 1 character is like a trillion times larger than the other and the smaller guy has never been seen anywhere near full power, for all I know Vegito's Kamehameha could destroy the universe, Idk. There for "I" as in "ME", Overdose is not sure about who will win.

If anyone has problems wit that, then go find a shrink to vent to.

If only someone like me had countered your every point. Damn that would of been nice.



Far be it from to copy Endless Mike, but I think it fits here. No limits fallacy.



Translated: Everyone who argues against me is a sad person Yes we have been defeated. Damn us for disagreeing with someone on a versus forum!

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
If only someone like me had countered your every point. Damn that would of been nice. ???!!!
Dude, chill, you aint gotta act like some "Great Debator Jackass Tuff Guy". You can think that what you put forth were "counters" all you want, I don't care.I think they were wrong. I never said Vegito WOULD do anything. I was simply throwin' out ideas that MAYBE there was some things he COULD do in this battle. So chill, man. Being a smart ass only creates unnecessary tension and there's enough of that around here.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Far be it from to copy Endless Mike, but I think it fits here. No limits fallacy.
This only proves that your ignorin' my point cuz you wanna have a fight or somthin'. I never said "Since I have never seen Vegito at full power his power is limitless. I just said I don't know how strong he is, he can be weaker than Krillin for all I know. But if you think that me thinkin' Vegito is a limitless god and that you some how defeated that opinion and made it seem stupid, if that brightened your day, Then go ahead...I wouldn't wanna take shot at your self esteem, friend.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Translated: Everyone who argues against me is a sad person Yes we have been defeated. Damn us for disagreeing with someone on a versus forum! Ya'know, you do have the right to disagree wit me and that's awesome. But sometimes maybe once every thousand years a man will arise to simply state an opinion and disappear or in this case a ask rhetorical question and dissapper and that's suppose to be okay too. I'm sorry that this is so serious to you that you must fend off every comment you don't like.

People wit opinions different from yours, the scourge of mankind I tell'ya. KILL THEM ALL!!!

Tengen stomps...... and hard. It is not a simple mecha. It is a mass of materialized Spiral Energy on the scale of a galaxy. In other words vegito goku or anyone cannot use the IT. 'Cause it is like if everyone was fused with the Mecha. They are one with the mecha/spiral energy. Vegito/Goku instead of feeling the presence of the humans that control TTGL they will feel a super broken being.

Also TTGL controls probability so IT is not a possible option

Not sayin' that TTGL is gonna lose in any way, but it can't control probability, it can only counter anti spirals who can. That's very different.

Originally posted by Overdose
Not sayin' that TTGL is gonna lose in any way, but it can't control probability, it can only counter anti spirals who can. That's very different.

Well yes in some way there is nothing to prove 100% he controls probabilty. But actually there was a small part of the battle where the leg fires drills to Grand Zamboa and he says " It is not going to work!!!" But drills some how impact. And the enginier chief said "wow impressive probabily control he Attenborough Cortitch".

(Attenborough Cortitch is the dude that always fires missiles like crazy.)

Or something like that. In my personal opinion the fact they could counter a dude who had total control of his universe and probabilty in someway suggests that TTGL with spiral energy also had certain probability control.

Anyway this is just theory and it does not matter at all.

This fight could not even take place, he is too big to even be fought. If they were the same size and had a 1 on 1 vegito would take this no contest.

Originally posted by brandnew8816
This fight could not even take place, he is too big to even be fought. If they were the same size and had a 1 on 1 vegito would take this no contest.

lol no. TTGL tanked a big bang and absorbed the beam.

Sure Vegito is cool. But you most realize pal that even with size equalized. Vegito has nothing compared to TTGL.

TTGL would just absorb any of Vegitos attacks. Even gurren lagann smaller mecha has proven better speed feats.


TTGL also has probability alteration feats.

I think TTGL simply has the ability to make Probability Control not work on himself and that's about it, resistant to it in a way. But that's just how I see it. The last few eps are so weird and trippy that nothin' can really be explained for sure. He's crazy powerful and big, that's for sure.

rUJzYSswcj0

Vegeto has no chance against TTGL, for 1 thing, there still SUPER TENGEN TOPPA GURREN LAGANN, yes it still gets BIGGER. vegeto would be reduce to nothing just by getting close to it(and by sheer awesomeness of it). and by the end of the series simon already has gained omnipotence, so vegeto really has no chance.

Errr, TTGL throws galaxies...

So yeah...

Is this the same TTGL that was the size of a galaxy, has anti-spiral things that tear throught reality or something and can take a fed Galactus: according to certain versus threads.

I don't know a lot about TTGL so.....

How the hell is this thread still open?

The mods are just bril...

What a pointless necro.

My fault. I sorry.

No. No you're not. Not yet.

Please don't hurt my family Harvey.

Have you ever had to talk to the thread you love most, tell her it's going to be alright, when you know it's not?

Well, you're about to know what that feels like Angel. Then you can look me in the eye and tell me you're sorry.

Meow mother****er

Originally posted by Nephthys
Have you ever had to talk to the thread you love most, tell her it's going to be alright, when you know it's not?

Well, you're about to know what that feels like Angel. Then you can look me in the eye and tell me you're sorry.

Meow mother****er

You're not going to hurt my thread Harvey.

Yeah, probably not.

vegeto would sense ki of simon and he would know that someone is controlling ttgl then teleport inside ttgl and .....

VEGTO WINS IN A SECOND.

Except Buu nearly destroyed reality itself by screaming, and Vegetto easily stopped him with a single punch. Base Goku wins this easily.

Aha..



...ahaha...




......ahahahahaa....






......No.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Aha..



...ahaha...




......ahahahahaa....






......No.

Aha... except it's true so you can't disprove it.

Except TTGL could quite literally walk and vaporize Vegitto, while blitzing him.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Except TTGL could quite literally walk and vaporize Vegitto, while blitzing him.

Again, Buuhan nearly destroyed reality itself by screaming, and Vegetto punched through his multiverse barrier. Vegetto would vaporize TTGL with a wave of his hand... along with the universe they're in.

1. Non-canon. You forgot this.

2. Causing a domino chain reaction =/= Destructive capability of the character. You also forgot this.


So your feat is false on two accounts. But please, do prove with some canon evidence that Vegitto can hit with, what, multiversal strength?

Originally posted by BloodRain
1. Non-canon. You forgot this.

2. Causing a domino chain reaction =/= Destructive capability of the character. You also forgot this.


So your feat is false on two accounts. But please, do prove with some canon evidence that Vegitto can hit with, what, multiversal strength?

So because Superman nearly destroyed the universe by going too fast was by a chain reaction, he's actually not that fast? That doesn't make sense. If you can destroy reality with a scream, be it chain reaction or not, you can still destroy reality with a scream.

It's cannon to the anime. In the manga, Buu was still said by Supreme kai to be a galaxy buster, which is still much more than anything Superman could dream to muster.

See now you're just confusing yourself.

You believe the scream was multiversal in power, when in fact it was not the verse he was destroying, but the fabric of reality. Something that does not have a real durability.

Think of those houses with a single major support beam in a house. If you broke it and the house came down, you don't suddenly have building level strength.


What exact quote states galaxy buster?

Originally posted by BloodRain
See now you're just confusing yourself.

You believe the scream was multiversal in power, when in fact it was not the verse he was destroying, but the fabric of reality. Something that does not have a real durability.

Think of those houses with a single major support beam in a house. If you broke it and the house came down, you don't suddenly have building level strength.


What exact quote states galaxy buster?

If reality itself didn't have durability, then it would just collapse by someone moving. Reality can be broken(at least in DBZ*by shear power*), by being able to release more power than a dimension can hold, causing the power to seep into other dimensions. Creating enough of those will weaken reality, and cause it to shatter. Like if you threw enough rocks at a window, it would eventually break.

That's why Gotenks could easily break through reality with just a scream.

The quote was when Supreme Kai was taking them to Buu, and he said, "In only a couple of short years, Majin Buu destroyed countless planets, and even entire galaxies.", meaning Kid Buu was galaxy level. I saw someone post the scan on this site actually, I forget where though.

Reality does not have a quantifiable durability. If a fiction has something that can break the borders of reality, that's all well and good. But no force can be applied to it. Even if effects come from the cause, it's not direct so while the character can have the technical ability, they do not have the sheer force.

In years.. meaning over a long period of constant destruction. Can you provide the scan? I dint recall galaxy being mentioned, and iirc they only have a few.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Reality does not have a quantifiable durability. If a fiction has something that can break the borders of reality, that's all well and good. But no force can be applied to it. Even if effects come from the cause, it's not direct so while the character can have the technical ability, they do not have the sheer force.

In years.. meaning over a long period of constant destruction. Can you provide the scan? I dint recall galaxy being mentioned, and iirc they only have a few.

That might be true in real life, but Gotenks easily yelled and concentrated his ki, which made a hole in dimensions just in front of him. He made a controlled tear in dimensions, so you can obviously apply force to reality itself. Ki is the same thing as force in DBZ, it's just that it can be used in many different ways than just pushing or punching something. If someone can break holes in reality, which would in turn cause a chain reaction destroying reality itself, they can destroy reality.

A couple of years means 2 or slightly more years. He didn't say decades or centuries, he said a couple years. I'll look for the scan, and if I can remember exactly where it is, I'll post it. Plus, I don't know why everyone says there are only 4 galaxies in DBZ, when that was only stated in the movies, which everyone also says aren't cannon. DBZ-verse is just as big as any other verse. They did say in BOTG's though that Bills could destroy quadrants just by getting angry, which is a quarter of the universe in DBZ.

What makes you think it'd cause a chain reaction?

Originally posted by Q99
What makes you think it'd cause a chain reaction?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XOKZd8Y7S2M#t=940

Okay, now quantify how strong breaking a reality is.

Just saw the scan with no mention of galaxies, only hundreds of planets in years.

TTGL would chuck a galaxy at him.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Okay, now quantify how strong breaking a reality is.

Just saw the scan with no mention of galaxies, only hundreds of planets in years.

Well, think of it this way. Has anyone from Gurren Lagann broken reality? Reckless reality breaking in DBZ can destroy all of creation(i.e. the multiverse), so, DBZ characters Gotenks level and above can easily multiverse bust with a scream. Breaking reality itself would destroy the multiverse, and in turn, easily destroy TTGL. Plus, DBZ characters can create biospheres from ki which let's them survive in nothingness, like Broly when he was a day old and flew his father and himself off their exploding planet and across the universe in a sphere of ki.

You didn't see the right scan then. The original translation(not the Kanzenban re-write) had Supreme Kai state "Buu had destroyed countless planets and even entire galaxies at once, in just a couple short years.".

Vegetto evaporates TTGL with a kiai shout in base form.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
TTGL would chuck a galaxy at him.

And Goku eats it, and throws a reality busting attack at him.

Stopped at the second sentence as you did not answer my question. Can you, or can you not, explain and quantify the force of breaking the barrier of reality?

Will have to wait for you to show it then, because no one else seems to know what you're talking about.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Stopped at the second sentence as you did not answer my question. Can you, or can you not, explain and quantify the force of breaking the barrier of reality?

Will have to wait for you to show it then, because no one else seems to know what you're talking about.

If you read my entire post, I explained that since if reality is destroyed, so is the multiverse, that reality has multiverse plus durability. The multiverse is part of reality, so it's not like destroying Superman with kryptonite or killing Buu with pure ki. The multiverse is a part of reality, and reality's durability. To break reality, you literally break a hole in the multiverse.

Again, read my entire post, stop being an ignorant fantard, and actually put up some kind of debater other than "reality doesn't have durability, herp derp". Again, if that was true, anyone could break it with the slightest movement, as it is all around everything.

If not, then prove me wrong.

You just went back to saying how reality was in shambles. I asked you to quantify it, especially after admitting that it's not a direct 'bust' and is a chain reaction. If you honestly believe that anyone who can break realities barrier is a universe+ buster, then you really need go read more fiction because hundreds of characters have been able to do so. Hulk, Supes, SBP, a bunch of manga character etc. One thing that have in common is that neither of them are universal or multiversal. If you can't quantify it, or use it as an actual attack, you have nothing.

That's just illogical. On thinking everything has a durability, that breaking the support beam makes you a house buster, and thinking someone who has never watches TTGL could be a fantard. Nice try though, but I prefer actual evidence over fan desires.

Hey Gogeta, do you mind posting the scans where Buu almost destroys reality? I'd like to see it.

Originally posted by BloodRain
You just went back to saying how reality was in shambles. I asked you to quantify it, especially after admitting that it's not a direct 'bust' and is a chain reaction. If you honestly believe that anyone who can break realities barrier is a universe+ buster, then you really need go read more fiction because hundreds of characters have been able to do so. Hulk, Supes, SBP, a bunch of manga character etc. One thing that have in common is that neither of them are universal or multiversal. If you can't quantify it, or use it as an actual attack, you have nothing.

That's just illogical. On thinking everything has a durability, that breaking the support beam makes you a house buster, and thinking someone who has never watches TTGL could be a fantard. Nice try though, but I prefer actual evidence over fan desires.

So are you saying if I cut down a houses support beams, and the house collapses, I'm not the one who destroyed the house? I think you have a very twisted sense of logic, as anyone who has committed arson would inform you. Try that logic with a judge. "It wasn't me who destroyed the house, it was gravity!", lol.

I don't recall any of those characters other than SBP destroying the barriers of reality(unless we count when Supe's was chasing Supergirl and nearly flew into heaven somehow), but even then, he didn't nearly destroy the multiverse from doing so, he got trapped in between dimensions. Breaking through a wall in a house is different than smashing all the walls down. Show any feats of those characters(even ones from different animes, mostly because you've piqued my interest with that claim), that constitute or even state them to be near destroying reality itself. Obviously don't post the PC Superman chasing Supergirl, or SBP doing whatever he did to break through reality(I think he was fighting anti-monitor or something with a bunch of other people helping him), but the others... yeah.

Originally posted by ares834
Hey Gogeta, do you mind posting the scans where Buu almost destroys reality? I'd like to see it.

There's not a scan, because it was in the anime only. However, it is accepted as cannon in the Daizenshuu volume 7, so... it is. I can send you the vid if you want though, but I think if you just look at the last few pages of comments you'll find it posted by me.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XOKZd8Y7S2M#t=940

Yeah, here it is again.

...my god. Its not hard to grasp so where are you failing here? Okay, I'll try again, slower this time; You take a sledgehamme and through some surge of adrenalin you break the support wall/beam/whatever. The house comes down. Q1) Does this mean you have the physical strength to destroy houses, or just strong enough to break something that in turn destroyed the house?

Hulk punched a hole through blahblahblah (bored mid sentence), Supes used HV to hold a hole in reality together, and all the others that go around tearing up the fabric of reality. Remember that this is your claim about the durability of reality; "The multiverse is a part of reality, and reality's durability. To break reality, you literally break a hole in the multiverse." So unless everyone who can affect the fabric of their reality is overcoming the durability of their own universe/multiverse, as per your claim, its not actually the case. It cannot be quantified.

Originally posted by BloodRain
...my god. Its not hard to grasp so where are you failing here? Okay, I'll try again, slower this time; You take a sledgehamme and through some surge of adrenalin you break the support wall/beam/whatever. The house comes down. Q1) Does this mean you have the physical strength to destroy houses, or just strong enough to break something that in turn destroyed the house?

Hulk punched a hole through blahblahblah (bored mid sentence), Supes used HV to hold a hole in reality together, and all the others that go around tearing up the fabric of reality. Remember that this is your claim about the durability of reality; "The multiverse is a part of reality, and reality's durability. To break reality, you literally break a hole in the multiverse." So unless everyone who can affect the fabric of their reality is overcoming the durability of their own universe/multiverse, as per your claim, its not actually the case. It cannot be quantified.

Are you retarded, or just ****ing with me? Houses have MANY more than one support beam. You would have to break many of them for the house to collapse. Affecting the fabric of reality is completely different than literally breaking it. I remember Supe's holding a hole in reality open, but since he didn't display power NEAR capable of opening that hole, and/or holding it longer than a few seconds, that feat is moot. Also, mind defining what Superman that was?

Hulk never did that. At least not that I've seen. Show scans or didn't happen.

Define "All others who go around tearing up the fabric of reality". Name some characters at least. And don't name certain characters that can do so by special abilities that specifically let them do so, like Inuyasha for example, who can briefly open portals in reality with an ability made for that, and not out of destructive force.

I see your point though. However, quantifiable proof of his strength(to the lowest degree albeit) comes from the Janemba movie. Goku stated Fat Janemba to be able to destroy the entire universe with his raw power. Not through chain reaction, but through raw power. Even Super Janemba was MUCH weaker than Buuhan, and around the level of Buutenks. The reality feat just shows that with raw power in DBZ, you can do more to affect or destroy reality, which apparently has more durability than the entire universe at the least. So, no matter the case, Buuhan is multiversal/reality level buster. Vegetto was vastly superior to him. Vegetto is multiversal/reality level buster, which is far above anything in TTGL, iirc.

Stop pretending to be this incapable of grasping that simple point. You know its just an example, just like you not being strong enough to topple a supporting structure. An example. One that matches the scenario. Breaking a support and a house coming down, pulling a main branch and a beavers dam coming apart, pushing one domino for a thousand more to fall after, rolling a snowball down a hill and ending with something thrice the size, dropping a weight from a mile up with its impact force being several times greater. Each one has the person doing a small event that triggers much larger force that did not come from themself.

Do I look like a comic fanboy to you? Minor example, google it. Still, with that, SBP (even if assisted, a fraction of a feat that beaks the reality between an extensive multiverse.. yeah), and Superman cauterising reality back together is as great a feat. Its like welding to pieced of metal together. Do you want to think about both the force and the heat needed if the durability of reality matched the size of the fictions verse? With the heat to melt reality the opponent could be in another galaxy and still be vaporized by being that distance from it..

Also if your stance is that they use brute force and nothing else, then you would need a perfect explanation as to why things stronger than S3Gotenks' scream (E.g his own blasts, SuperBuu's, Buutenks', Buuhan's, Gohan's and Vegito's blasts.. heck I'd easily say that S3 Goku's blasts are far beyond Gotenks' scream. No. Not even that. In destructive force even Raditz's blasts did more. And you want to exclude 'special moves' when the scream is basically that?


IIRC Goku said his reality warping powers would destroy it in the way he was ****ing around with the area. Not like he could fire off a blast.. and remember just above you omitted the use of special move that weren't raw destructive attacks.

The fact that you put "/reality" shows that you do know that its only due to affecting reality with special certain moves that they can do anything on this level.



That, and a double non-canon discussion..





...Meaning I can still stick to the origional point that TTGL literally walks with the speed to blitz the DBZ verse before anyone has time to blink, in the process wiping them out.

Also Arc-Gurren Lagann was able to punch so hard he created tears in reality and this guy is nothing compared to TTGL.

Watched the video. Talk about over inflating a feat. There was no reality destruction of any sort. The only thing "destroyed" from Buuhan screaming was the cloud formations. Not to mention, Kid Buu let out a scream in the manga and all it did was hurt Goku and Vegeta's ears. Bills and Whis are stronger than any form of Buu and yet both of them can't destroy universes either. Bills was said to just be galaxy level which is still a far cry from destroying a universe.

The whole screaming deal didn't happen in the manga anyway so it's simply filler to pad out the fight since it was originally pretty short.

As said before, TTGL wins by either tossing a galaxy at Vegeto or simply moving and crushing him since TTGL is 52.8 billion light years tall. Both scenarios are beyond overkill.