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OK, so a bunch of characters want to appear in front of humans (in our universe) and pretend to be the Christian God. Which one of them can succeed in being close enough to omnipotent/omnipresent/omniscient so that people would believe that he/she/it is God? For the sake of this thread, we'll assume that for some reason humans won't have any former knowledge of these characters (ie they won't recognize that Odin is well...Odin, and the god of Norse mythology).

1. medieval Europe
2. modern America
3. Star Wars

(in no particular order)

Galactus
Odin
Superman
A celestial
Utah
Darkseid
Eternity
Thanos
Thanos w/IG
LT
Post Retcon Beyonder

All of them succeed other than Utah, Darkseid, Thanos, and Odin

Why is the state of Utah on the list?

Pre ret Beyonder would be a good fit.

wouldnt god instantly kill them all before they impersonate him?

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
wouldnt god instantly kill them all before they impersonate him?

living tribunal IS god
the abstracts would be pretty close to god if they came to our reality

only LT here is omiposent

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
only LT here is omiposent

right, but for this scenario you don't have to be totally omnipotent, just enough so that you can fool mortals

Originally posted by galactusischere
All of them succeed other than Utah, Darkseid, Thanos, and Odin

so Superman somehow suceeds?

All of them could IMO for Medieval Europe.
Who is Utah? Is it a misspelling of Uatu?
I don't know about him but as for Modern America all but Superman, Thanos, and Darkseid could pass for the Christian God. Mostly because in the first case he's clearly not even close to all knowing and in the other two cases their lack of moral character would betray them.
As for Star Wars I'd say that LT and pr Beyonder are the only ones powerful enough to convince a Universe that has next to no religion (seriously the only religious ppl in Star Wars are seen as backward and kooky force worshipers) that they're God. I don't say Thanos because again if you're talking the Christian God he would be way too abusive to pass.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall




so Superman somehow suceeds?
no

Superman could definitely convince Medieval Europe that he's God. Hell if there were never any Superman comics he could probably convince a good segment of Modern America (30-40 %). There are a lot of stupid people willing to accept anything as their God/personal savior and a man who flies, can't be killed by anything we have, can bench press a continent, and can shoot lasers from his eyes is a step up from a lot of people's accepted beliefs. Its weird to think about it but Superman's on panel feats > what Jesus did in the Bible.

I listed POST retcon beyonder btw

All of them for the first two scenarios, easily

Originally posted by Original Smurph
All of them for the first two scenarios, easily

I highly doubt that Superman can fool the majority of us today, he isn't anywhere near omnipotent.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
I highly doubt that Superman can fool the majority of us today, he isn't anywhere near omnipotent.
He's close enough as far as most people would be concerned. A good 20 maybe even 25% of America is stupid and gullible. Hell if Superman showed up without explanation I'd probably think he was (a) god but not THE GOD.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He's close enough as far as most people would be concerned. A good 20 maybe even 25% of America is stupid and gullible. Hell if Superman showed up without explanation I'd probably think he was (a) god but not THE GOD.

Maybe the some of the less educated people, but most would not believe. They'd probably go to Superman praying for them to heal their loved one or remove all hunger or end X war or something, and Superman wouldn't be able to do many of these things.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Maybe the some of the less educated people, but most would not believe. They'd probably go to Superman praying for them to heal their loved one or remove all hunger or end X war or something, and Superman wouldn't be able to do many of these things.
You sure about that? Superman could have single handedly rescued everyone from Katrina in a day and rebuilt New Orleans by himself over a weekend. He couldn't do magical crap but for all intents and purposes he'd be closer to a God than anything we've ever seen before.

The closest being to resemble a Christian god would probably be Odin...

Despite what "Christians" say the bibles feats are no greater than anything in Norse mythology ie... What odins done.

Once the heavens and earth were created.... Which suppsedly Odin/ or Zeus have done

I agree that Odin wouldn't even have to change his appearance to convince people, after all if you ask a lot of people they'll tell you that they see God as a bearded man, at least I do.

God could be a little black girl for all you know!

1. medieval Europe
2. modern America
3. Star Wars


Galactus - Fails 2 and 3. He'd just look like an alien.
Odin - Passes all with the right garb, and going for a "Father Time" look.
Superman - Passes 1.
A celestial - Fails utterly. Too funny looking.
Utah - Salt Lake City passes all three.
Darkseid - Fails completely. He'd clearly be pegged as the devil.
Eternity - He could pass all three.
Thanos - Fails. Pegged as the devil.
Thanos w/IG - Fails. Even with the IG.
LT - Passes better than anyone.
Post Retcon Beyonder - Fails. Too creepy, I think.


I think Silver Surfer, Zeus, Eddie McDonough, and Sentry could pull this off.

Originally posted by rotiart
God could be a little black girl for all you know!
God if It exists is a formless, abstract, conceptual being so It could appear as whatever you imagined It to be.

Originally posted by rotiart
The closest being to resemble a Christian god would probably be Odin...

Despite what "Christians" say the bibles feats are no greater than anything in Norse mythology ie... What odins done.

Once the heavens and earth were created.... Which suppsedly Odin/ or Zeus have done

No.

God, according to the bible = Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient in every possible way, shape or form, knew everything that was going to happen and that would, etc.

Odin/Zeus/etc. - Have physical forms, can't do everything, are often challenged in power (Zeus had to fight a war in order to defeat Kronos), do not know all (the Greeks gods were apparently subject to the power of the Fates), etc.

Yeah and in Norse Mythology the Gods weren't even Immortal, they just lived really long because they ate the Golden Apples.

Odin an Zeus are not locked in a single form.. they could do their big head omniscient thing. to get their point across.

God created the universe, so He would, or rather can/could, therefor actually exist outside of it. Like a guy with a snow globe or something.

Anyway, why is a comic forum drifting onto theology? It'll just be more of the same with fanboys versus haters, with the actual debaters and people with real knowledge kinda caught in the middle and it's all awkward and sh*t.

Remember the rules of gentlemanly conduct. In public, never discuss politics or religion.

odin or zeus or thor would pass all

the living tribunal would every crap their pants and not question him..

he is aloft and has three faces kinda like the trinity aspect of religion.

the ppl would simply assume that, that is what the trinity meant.

If they knew their job was to pretend to be God then I think they could all do it. Superman would probably need to get a little creative but he could manage it.

The Star Wars one is tricky because they would have to introduce Christianity first. That one may actually be easier because it's not deeply rooted.

The gullible might believe. He just needs to "walk" on water, feed 5000 with two pieces of fish, by using his super speed and getting more fish without people noticing, create fire from nothing etc.

He could claim to be God in physical form and write off any lack of abilities as too great for the mortal world or something like that. He could mimic many disasters and make some weird effects with is powers.

I think a sure fire way to make people think you're God as Superman is to start burning things from space with invisible eye beams. To increase the effect, you could burn places known for sin and places where Christianity isn't the biggest religion.

i highly doubt that would be within clark's CIS.

True, he is kind of a stiff.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i highly doubt that would be within clark's CIS.

read his books during infinite crisis.

Originally posted by -Pr-
read his books during infinite crisis.

unless supes is brain washed, i dont see him causing catastrophes and tormenting the locals just to convince them he is god by swooping in and stopping said disasters.

if anyhthing only a major prick entity would do such a thing and subscribe to such a method

I can't imagine Superman hiding in some HV lit bushes and stomping the ground screaming "I am the Lord!".

i can see thanos and DS doing it but not supes. they would subscribe to the old testament style of God's method

Obviously LT would fit it perfectly. like someone said the three faces would make people assume it was the representation of the the Trinity.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
OK, so a bunch of characters want to appear in front of humans (in our universe) and pretend to be the Christian God. Which one of them can succeed in being close enough to omnipotent/omnipresent/omniscient so that people would believe that he/she/it is God? For the sake of this thread, we'll assume that for some reason humans won't have any former knowledge of these characters (ie they won't recognize that Odin is well...Odin, and the god of Norse mythology).

1. medieval Europe
2. modern America
3. Star Wars

(in no particular order)

Galactus
Odin
Superman
A celestial
Utah
Darkseid
Eternity
Thanos
Thanos w/IG
LT
Post Retcon Beyonder

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
right, but for this scenario you don't have to be totally omnipotent, just enough so that you can fool mortals

If you look who's already done it in the past and even today everyone from that list CAN do it, maybe CIS is in their way but the potential is there

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
unless supes is brain washed, i dont see him causing catastrophes and tormenting the locals just to convince them he is god by swooping in and stopping said disasters.

if anyhthing only a major prick entity would do such a thing and subscribe to such a method
You've obviously never been to Superdickery.com

IMO Darkseid would fit the mold of Old Testament God perfectly.

But why isn't Highfather on this list? IMO of all comic book characters he's the closest in personality and conception to the Christian God and he'd have the power to back up his claims.

Originally posted by Placidity
Sounds like a nerve being struck. didn't like hewhoknowsalls response... If the idea is to say who could best pretend to be the Christian god.... Then go off feats... What has god done...

Do you go with the father or son...
The son was a healer, turned water to wine... His feats are nothing more than Thor could do...

And even if you were going with the father... Unleashing death with plagues etc is not much of a feat compared to Odin's best feats...

And hyperbole... Everyone claims to be all powerful... Ie thanos with the cosmic cube, ig, thoti...

Eternity in marvel is the representation of everything... Since he knows and sees all of time and space...yet... Has some kinda crappy feats and seems to get beat up easily...

Originally posted by rotiart
didn't like hewhoknowsalls response... If the idea is to say who could best pretend to be the Christian god.... Then go off feats... What has god done...

Do you go with the father or son...
The son was a healer, turned water to wine... His feats are nothing more than Thor could do...

And even if you were going with the father... Unleashing death with plagues etc is not much of a feat compared to Odin's best feats...

And hyperbole... Everyone claims to be all powerful... Ie thanos with the cosmic cube, ig, thoti...

Eternity in marvel is the representation of everything... Since he knows and sees all of time and space...yet... Has some kinda crappy feats and seems to get beat up easily...

Sorry if I offended you...

But I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Well, God did create the entire universe. That's something.

Anywho. This is getting on to religion bashing. There are certain times and places where religion are meant to be discussed(or attacked), but a mild-mannered comic versus forum should not be one of them.



Ghost Rider vs Spawn. Who wins!?

Any of them could do it for the first two. You'd have to get to Odin or higher for the third though.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Sorry if I offended you...

But I have no idea what you're trying to say.

You stated the bible states god is all powerful all seeing... Etc... But a lot of religions have the first god that creates the universe

You are supposed to get people to believe your god... What are you gonna do... Create another universe in front of them

gods feats like parting seas and rains of fire can be done by Odin...

Originally posted by rotiart


gods feats like parting seas and rains of fire can be done by Odin...

So why do you accept that one and not that one that says God created the universe etc?

Because no human could perceive the creation of an entire universe.

Yhey would probably ask for you to heal someone that was dead or near death... Like asking Odin to return people from helas realm before...

And as far as creating a universe Odin could do Luke Thor and create a floating city out of nowhere to appease the masses.

The thread asks us to show which of the people could best be as omnipotent, etc as the christian god... But a human trying to perceive god would need very little to believe he is confronted with god

Would they have to present themselves as they are?. They can't juyst make themselves appears to be some angelic god/jessus amalgam... anyway if thats the case

Galactus - 1 maybe 2 def not 3.
Odin - think he can do it for all.
Superman - 1 maybe, people arent so bright then.
A celestial - hard for me to say.
Uatu - Passes all 3. IMO he has the capapbility and character.
Darkseid - 1
Eternity - All 3
Thanos - 1 maybe
Thanos w/IG - 1, not really capability but just don't see people accepting him as the christian gods (same with ds)
LT - All
Post Retcon Beyonder - All

if they can fly, i'm pretty sure they'd have everyone convinced...

Originally posted by King Kandy
Any of them could do it for the first two. You'd have to get to Odin or higher for the third though.

I don't think that Superman could pass for two. People would be begging him to do stuff that Superman can't do, such as save X person from dying or eliminating all disease or stuff like that.

I'm not sure if Odin could pass for 3, they'd probably just think of him as a super advanced alien. Galactus, why maybe 1 and definitely 2? Probably 1 I'd say, but for 2 his looks would make him be conceived as a super advanced alien (which he really is...), and people would eventually wonder why he leaves every month or so.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
and people would eventually wonder why he leaves every month or so.

cause there's also a lot of stuff to do in heaven too

Originally posted by Master Court
Well, God did create the entire universe. That's something.

Anywho. This is getting on to religion bashing. There are certain times and places where religion are meant to be discussed(or attacked), but a mild-mannered comic versus forum should not be one of them.


Aww crap you party-pooper!

I wanna discuss which is the one TRUE world religion!!!

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Superman - 1 maybe, people arent so bright then.

That's a misconception, people never get any smarter or dumber its just our ability to understand reality has gotten better over time. A medieval person sees Superman's heat vision and he's thinking divine powers but we see it and say "lasers" for all we know Superman really does have divine powers but our different way of perceiving reality will cause us to assume a scientific explanation.
If it turns out we can't scientifically disprove Superman's powers then I could see people converting to worshiping him in droves because once science fails us we have to fall back to faith.

Originally posted by theICONiac
Aww crap you party-pooper!

I wanna discuss which is the one TRUE world religion!!!




THOOORRRR!!!!

Originally posted by Omega Vision
That's a misconception, people never get any smarter or dumber its just our ability to understand reality has gotten better over time. A medieval person sees Superman's heat vision and he's thinking divine powers but we see it and say "lasers" for all we know Superman really does have divine powers but our different way of perceiving reality will cause us to assume a scientific explanation.
If it turns out we can't scientifically disprove Superman's powers then I could see people converting to worshiping him in droves because once science fails us we have to fall back to faith.

People do get smarter "our ability to understand reality has gotten better over time" that's an elaborate way of saying it but essentially the same. A child learning is him exploring his reality/world and learning is the same thing the human race has been doing but at a higher level. We discover things and see how they work. We build upon that so yes Humans have gotten smarter since the medieval. Ppl did some seriously ****ed up shit just to cook, get better from sickness, and other fairly basic thing that they did totally backwards.

IMO if supes showed up now and if there were no comics books or something. I would take him as some alien or robot. I mean I think the basic things for me to believe somone is godlike. Is the fact a god should already know what you are thinking, about to do, when you do it all the time like serious omnipotent power and crazy ass reality/matter manipulation. .

Whoever has Omega Telepathy makes all three.

Epic Fail for Superman in all 3.
Those Medieval mother****ers will go old school on his ass and put a hex on him

1. medieval Europe
2. modern America
3. Star Wars

Galactus = Handles all Three if he wants.
Odin = Handles all Three, better then Galactus imo, simply Because the God thing is more his kind of thing.
Superman = 1 sure, 2 possible but unlikely, 3 no way
A celestial = Could handle all Three but I doubt it.
Utah = Pulls it off all three with a little more difficult then Odin. The none interfere act might make it hard for him to show himself as God.
Darkseid = Wouldn't in any way be consideret God more the Devil, in pretty much all scenarios.
Eternity = Handles all Three Easily.
Thanos = Can handle 1 easily, I doubt 2 actually, 3 no way.
Thanos w/IG = If he plays his cards right, he clears easily imo.
LT = No Problem here at all.
Post Retcon Beyonder = No idea.

Thanos comes to earth proclaiming himself the one true god... He states his son the king of pop had come before him.... And died for our sins and ignorance... Thanos wears the one gauntlet of power Hence why Michael jackson used to wear only one glove.

celestials fail horribly . how is a 10,000 ft celestial going to even notice a 6ft human???

Originally posted by Lord Feron
People do get smarter "our ability to understand reality has gotten better over time" that's an elaborate way of saying it but essentially the same. A child learning is him exploring his reality/world and learning is the same thing the human race has been doing but at a higher level. We discover things and see how they work. We build upon that so yes Humans have gotten smarter since the medieval. Ppl did some seriously ****ed up shit just to cook, get better from sickness, and other fairly basic thing that they did totally backwards.
And yet if I dropped you in Papua New Guinea I imagine you'd feel rather stupid compared to the uneducated people who live there because they can survive there and you can't. Intelligence doesn't increase over time it just changes form. The majority of intelligent people are morons in a lot of subjects while "simple people" are rather adept when it comes to their areas of expertise. Do you know how to forge a suit of chainmail? Probably not but a "medieval moron" blackmith could. On your point of medicine: have you ever taken some pill that you knew nothing about but you decided to take it anyway because your doctor prescribed it? If so then its proof that people still aren't any smarter than when they took leaches to cure infections.
Superman would still appear to be a God to most people today because though we act like we know better now we're still ready to believe anything.

You have a point there.

It takes far more intelligence to start science from scratch than it does to develop scientific theory which the person who came before you identified.

Some of the things the Medieval types did require a high degree of intelligence. Today we have gps satnav and maps The medieval guys did it all from zilch developing and using the star system as a foolproof navigation system.

The designs they made with moving parts like clocks and windmills/turbines, weapons etc are pretty much unchanged Today.

As A christian God Superman would fail.
The Christian God has complete access to all of an individual's thoughts.

Superman wouldn't be able to fulfill this aspect of God.

If Superman was addressing a crowd with some people who speak only language x/ y, some who are bilingual (x+y) and travellers passing through town who only speak language c, and have been briefly seperated from their guide would everyone hear Superman as if he was speaking to them in their tongue? Would the deaf be able to hear God speak to Them? Would Superman be able to open blind people's eyes or Answer someone who summoned him silently?

With their enhanced capacity for pattern recognition the Medieval Earthers would recognise him as a fake.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
And yet if I dropped you in Papua New Guinea I imagine you'd feel rather stupid compared to the uneducated people who live there because they can survive there and you can't. Intelligence doesn't increase over time it just changes form. The majority of intelligent people are morons in a lot of subjects while "simple people" are rather adept when it comes to their areas of expertise. Do you know how to forge a suit of chainmail? Probably not but a "medieval moron" blackmith could. On your point of medicine: have you ever taken some pill that you knew nothing about but you decided to take it anyway because your doctor prescribed it? If so then its proof that people still aren't any smarter than when they took leaches to cure infections.
Superman would still appear to be a God to most people today because though we act like we know better now we're still ready to believe anything.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
All of them could IMO for Medieval Europe.
Who is Utah? Is it a misspelling of Uatu?
I don't know about him but as for Modern America all but Superman, Thanos, and Darkseid could pass for the Christian God. Mostly because in the first case he's clearly not even close to all knowing and in the other two cases their lack of moral character would betray them.
As for Star Wars I'd say that LT and pr Beyonder are the only ones powerful enough to convince a Universe that has next to no religion (seriously the only religious ppl in Star Wars are seen as backward and kooky force worshipers) that they're God. I don't say Thanos because again if you're talking the Christian God he would be way too abusive to pass. Thanos with the IG can make people believe what he wants them to believe.

Thanos with IG easily pulls it off

Originally posted by Omega Vision
And yet if I dropped you in Papua New Guinea I imagine you'd feel rather stupid compared to the uneducated people who live there because they can survive there and you can't. Intelligence doesn't increase over time it just changes form. The majority of intelligent people are morons in a lot of subjects while "simple people" are rather adept when it comes to their areas of expertise. Do you know how to forge a suit of chainmail? Probably not but a "medieval moron" blackmith could. On your point of medicine: have you ever taken some pill that you knew nothing about but you decided to take it anyway because your doctor prescribed it? If so then its proof that people still aren't any smarter than when they took leaches to cure infections.
Superman would still appear to be a God to most people today because though we act like we know better now we're still ready to believe anything.

wait I think were talking about different things. There is knowledge and smarter. There are different schools of knowledge and stuff like that. I do believe humans actually get smarter by using their brain more.

Like a muscle with greater use of our brain, we do increase our "smart/intelligence." I applied that idea to us using our brain more and overall. Just saying Smart does not equal knowing everything everything. It is teh ability to store, calculate, retrieve information from our brain.

I do agree with you on the last part. There are still alot of either dumb people who believe anything and there are people who need to believe in something but are otherwise well educated people.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
wait I think were talking about different things. There is knowledge and smarter. There are different schools of knowledge and stuff like that. I do believe humans actually get smarter by using their brain more.

Like a muscle with greater use of our brain, we do increase our "smart/intelligence." I applied that idea to us using our brain more and overall. Just saying Smart does not equal knowing everything everything. It is teh ability to store, calculate, retrieve information from our brain.

I do agree with you on the last part. There are still alot of either dumb people who believe anything and there are people who need to believe in something but are otherwise well educated people.
We stand on the shoulders of giants, that's why we appear to be smarter than those that came before us.

Anyways...

I honestly don't know if the Star Wars Universe would accept any being as a God, they'd probably look at the Living Tribunal and say "oh he's just incredibly skilled in the force"

Originally posted by Omega Vision
We stand on the shoulders of giants, that's why we appear to be smarter than those that came before us.

Anyways...

I honestly don't know if the Star Wars Universe would accept any being as a God, they'd probably look at the Living Tribunal and say "oh he's just incredibly skilled in the force" Thanos with IG pulls it off easily

Originally posted by Omega Vision
We stand on the shoulders of giants, that's why we appear to be smarter than those that came before us.

Anyways...

I honestly don't know if the Star Wars Universe would accept any being as a God, they'd probably look at the Living Tribunal and say "oh he's just incredibly skilled in the force"

Originally posted by godking
Thanos with IG pulls it off easily
It isn't about power, it's about morality. Thanos would be far too petty to be accepted as the true God.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
It isn't about power, it's about morality. Thanos would be far too petty to be accepted as the true God. He still pulls it of he is basically omnicient with the IG And if he choses to reward those who believe in him and punish those who dont believe in him the majority would consider him god not a nice god but still god.

Originally posted by godking
He still pulls it of he is basically omnicient with the IG And if he choses to reward those who believe in him and punish those who dont believe in him the majority would consider him god not a nice god but still god.
Still doesn't convince anyone he's the Christian God.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
It isn't about power, it's about morality. Thanos would be far too petty to be accepted as the true God.

Originally posted by Lord Feron

Christian God. not Old-Testament "God hates ****" God.

The christian god is a dick. Like superman when he uses to screw with Jimmy olsen.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
And yet if I dropped you in Papua New Guinea I imagine you'd feel rather stupid compared to the uneducated people who live there because they can survive there and you can't. Intelligence doesn't increase over time it just changes form. The majority of intelligent people are morons in a lot of subjects while "simple people" are rather adept when it comes to their areas of expertise. Do you know how to forge a suit of chainmail? Probably not but a "medieval moron" blackmith could. On your point of medicine: have you ever taken some pill that you knew nothing about but you decided to take it anyway because your doctor prescribed it? If so then its proof that people still aren't any smarter than when they took leaches to cure infections.
Superman would still appear to be a God to most people today because though we act like we know better now we're still ready to believe anything.
I think it depends on how you measure intelligence. And also how much experience you have doing something. It's possible those ignorant intelligent people could become as good, or better, faster than anyone in any field they currently don't know anything in. Or maybe not. It's hard to separate experience and intelligence in something. Is that mechanic good because he's got an awesome analytical mind when it comes to machines or is it just because he's been doing it for 20 years?

We really specialize in stuff nowadays though so it's not really surprising that we know less about some things. We just have to rely on the word of the professionals.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
I think it depends on how you measure intelligence. And also how much experience you have doing something. It's possible those ignorant intelligent people could become as good, or better, faster than anyone in any field they currently don't know anything in. Or maybe not. It's hard to separate experience and intelligence in something. Is that mechanic good because he's got an awesome analytical mind when it comes to machines or is it just because he's been doing it for 20 years?

We really specialize in stuff nowadays though so it's not really surprising that we know less about some things. We just have to rely on the word of the professionals.
Alright but my point that people aren't smarter today than they were in medieval times stands regardless, people are just for the most part more educated.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
I highly doubt that Superman can fool the majority of us today, he isn't anywhere near omnipotent. Lol?

Sure he is, by any modern definition.

If a man descended from above, displaying the power to be anywhere he wants to be at once, to see and hear anything on earth, to "squint and see the ends of the universe", to be able to accomplish any physical feat imaginable...

the christian faith cites walking on water as a miracle. Kal-El can superheat the oceans by looking at them.

If such a figure descended from above with every intention of fooling the world to believe he was God, people would laugh til they cried if you claimed he wasn't omnipotent.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Lol?

Sure he is, by any modern definition.

If a man descended from above, displaying the power to be anywhere he wants to be at once, to see and hear anything on earth, to "squint and see the ends of the universe", to be able to accomplish any physical feat imaginable...

the christian faith cites walking on water as a miracle. Kal-El can superheat the oceans by looking at them.

If such a figure descended from above with every intention of fooling the world to believe he was God, people would laugh til they cried if you claimed he wasn't omnipotent.

Jesus had matter manipulation, Water to wine

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Jesus had matter manipulation, Water to wine I realize the joke, but Superman could switch the pyramids of Giza for chocolate before we would notice he was gone.

I think I was superman who rebuilt a city within minutes.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Lol?

Sure he is, by any modern definition.

If a man descended from above, displaying the power to be anywhere he wants to be at once, to see and hear anything on earth, to "squint and see the ends of the universe", to be able to accomplish any physical feat imaginable...

the christian faith cites walking on water as a miracle. Kal-El can superheat the oceans by looking at them.

If such a figure descended from above with every intention of fooling the world to believe he was God, people would laugh til they cried if you claimed he wasn't omnipotent.
I have to disagree. While the "walking on the water" thing is undoubtedly considered a miracle, it's not what people base the power of God on. Jesus isn't regarded as omnipotent because of his actions, he's regarded as omnipotent because he's another form of God from the old testament. Supes could possibly convince people that he's a prophet with his abilities(I say possibly because I think people would be more likely to believe that he's something akin to the Antichrist), but he can't pull off the necessary miracles to convince folks that he's omnipotent. I mean people are expecting to be taken away to Heaven, they're not going to give that up without some serious convincing.

and exactly how many people did jesus show heaven too while he was here on earth. he's regarded as god because he did things no other human could... some believed, others didn't.

Originally posted by rotiart
and exactly how many people did jesus show heaven too while he was here on earth. he's regarded as god because he did things no other human could... some believed, others didn't.
People believe NOW, but it took them a minute to get there and it required a lot of killing after he'd already left the scene. People of the time that witnessed the miracles thought he was nice and all, but if they'd believed he was God and/or at the time he wouldn't have died.

Originally posted by darthgoober
People believe NOW, but it took them a minute to get there and it required a lot of killing after he'd already left the scene. People of the time that witnessed the miracles thought he was nice and all, but if they'd believed he was God and/or at the time he wouldn't have died.
Actually that's exactly the reason he died. Because lots of people were claiming he was the Son of God (the Messiah) and the local authorities (the Romans and the Jewish authorities) were worried that his supporters would become dangerous if they didn't stop him.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Actually that's exactly the reason he died. Because lots of people were claiming he was the Son of God (the Messiah) and the local authorities (the Romans and the Jewish authorities) were worried that his supporters would become dangerous if they didn't stop him.
There's a whole discussion there, but to sum up what I'm thinking without starting a full blown religious debate in the vs Forum I'll just say that if they REALLY believed they'd have stood up for the guy. Words without actions don't mean much.

Originally posted by darthgoober
There's a whole discussion there, but to sum up what I'm thinking without starting a full blown religious debate in the vs Forum I'll just say that if they REALLY believed they'd have stood up for the guy. Words without actions don't mean much.
More likely than not those who believed he was the Messiah thought his God powers would keep him from dying, they were wrong of course.

the whole non violence thing stopped them.. it wouldnt have stop me though.

i be like the T800 come back to save him.

jesus: no violence u cant go around killing ppl...

me: why?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
the whole non violence thing stopped them.. it wouldnt have stop me though.

i be like the T800 come back to save him.

jesus: no violence u cant go around killing ppl...

me: why?

Qnq7N6X4x84

Doesn't Superman still create ungodly shockwaves when he goes fast?

^ he should.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
A celestial

seriously, you saw what they did to the gods of earth right? son'd the shit out of them.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I have to disagree. While the "walking on the water" thing is undoubtedly considered a miracle, it's not what people base the power of God on. Jesus isn't regarded as omnipotent because of his actions, he's regarded as omnipotent because he's another form of God from the old testament. Supes could possibly convince people that he's a prophet with his abilities(I say possibly because I think people would be more likely to believe that he's something akin to the Antichrist), but he can't pull off the necessary miracles to convince folks that he's omnipotent. I mean people are expecting to be taken away to Heaven, they're not going to give that up without some serious convincing. I'm not trying to claim anything about religion, but I will point out that Jesus is still regarded as omnipotent because of his actions and claims as another form of God from the old testament. He really convinced people when he came back from the dead... Superman did that. He could inform people that he's a form of God, but so could Superman. Superman, if he's out to convince people, could simply lie. He can claim that people have gone to heaven, or he could make a heaven on earth. He doesn't need to be a form of God in order to convince the masses that he is.

The idea that a being like Kal-El could descend from above, with every intention of convincing the masses of his divine power, and not convince 99.99% of the world, is ludicrous.

(edit)

sorry for double post

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Lol?

Sure he is, by any modern definition.

If a man descended from above, displaying the power to be anywhere he wants to be at once, to see and hear anything on earth, to "squint and see the ends of the universe", to be able to accomplish any physical feat imaginable...

the christian faith cites walking on water as a miracle. Kal-El can superheat the oceans by looking at them.

If such a figure descended from above with every intention of fooling the world to believe he was God, people would laugh til they cried if you claimed he wasn't omnipotent.

Superman can't...

Revive people (right?)
Speak in any language (right?)
Read people's thoughts (right?)
Show Heaven
Change form
etc.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
sorry for double post



Superman can't...

Revive people (right?)
Speak in any language (right?)
Read people's thoughts (right?)
Show Heaven
Change form
etc.
To be fair (at least PC, not sure about current) Superman spoke pretty much every language on Earth fluently and while he may not be telepathic he can hear everything and see everything with his X-ray vision. Not to mention he could use his Super-ventriloquism to appear to people as a disembodied voice. So PC Superman could make a very convincing God to plenty of people.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Superman can't...

Revive people (right?)
Speak in any language (right?)
Read people's thoughts (right?)
Show Heaven
Change form
etc.

Jesus can't...
fly
run faster than speed of sound
doesn't have...
Super Strength
Super Hearing (maybe he has but then it's what you call mindreading)
Heat Vision
Freeze Breath
X-Ray Vision
Telescopic/microscopic vision

IMO Supes more impressive than G-Sus

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Super-ventriloquism

WTF!!! dudes goes around saving the world every other day and he has time to practice he ventriloquism? Bah redick...

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Jesus can't...
fly
run faster than speed of sound
doesn't have...
Super Strength
Super Hearing (maybe he has but then it's what you call mindreading)
Heat Vision
Freeze Breath
X-Ray Vision
Telescopic/microscopic vision

IMO Supes more impressive than G-Sus

True, but Jesus claimed that he was the SON of God sent down in human form...not God.

pretty sure the crucifixion thing wouldn't work on superman.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
sorry for double post



Superman can't...

Revive people (right?)
Speak in any language (right?)
Read people's thoughts (right?)
Show Heaven
Change form
etc. Superman is super-intelligent, and could easily learn a language in little to no time at all. He can also, by combining his visions, immediately deal with anything malignant or otherwise harmful in people's bodies, and can deal and arrive at problems before people would be put in danger in the first place.

We're talking about somebody who could solve Earth's problems in a day. Once again, no person on earth is going to watch him move mountains, instantly gather meat for the hungry and hear the pleas and prayers from across the world, and say "well... i haven't seen him walk on water yet... "

Originally posted by Original Smurph
I'm not trying to claim anything about religion, but I will point out that Jesus is still regarded as omnipotent because of his actions and claims as another form of God from the old testament. He really convinced people when he came back from the dead... Superman did that. He could inform people that he's a form of God, but so could Superman. Superman, if he's out to convince people, could simply lie. He can claim that people have gone to heaven, or he could make a heaven on earth. He doesn't need to be a form of God in order to convince the masses that he is.

The idea that a being like Kal-El could descend from above, with every intention of convincing the masses of his divine power, and not convince 99.99% of the world, is ludicrous.
Yes but if Supes started pulling off repeat performances of Jesus from the Bible Christians would think he's the Anti-Crist because they're already expecting someone to start pulling off miracles claiming to be God. They wouldn't believe anyone who didn't wisk them away to a life of luxury in Heaven because that's what God's supposed to do next time they hear from him. Anyone making the claim of divinity who falls short of that mark will be seen as a false prophet come to lead them astray.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Jesus can't...
fly
run faster than speed of sound
doesn't have...
Super Strength
Super Hearing (maybe he has but then it's what you call mindreading)
Heat Vision
Freeze Breath
X-Ray Vision
Telescopic/microscopic vision

IMO Supes more impressive than G-Sus


You mean, Jesus didn't. Not couldn't.


Without making this a religious debate, and speaking purely feat-wise;


Take the fig tree. From a distance, Jesus didn't notice the fig tree didn't have any fruit. Yet, He knew Judas was going to betray Him. So, obviously, Jesus could've done the same thing to see the fig tree was barren and saved Himself and the D-12 a walk. Part of it was showing moderation in the use of His powers. Like bringing people back to life and all that. He even brought Himself back to life. So He had command over life and death. He could've made like Doctor Strange and snuffed out all the Romans and went on His way. And walking on water proves He had command over physics, likely exterior physics as well as His own, so super-strength wouldn't have been a biggie. It seems He simply didn't need it. He wasn't there to fight. He also stopped a raging sea storm that was terrifying the D-12. And as for flight. Remember, when He resurrected Himself, it was the body, not just the spirit. And He ascended to Heaven. Meaning flight.


Supes is limited though. Superman can't cast out demons. He gets sent to the f*cking moon by them. Jesus would pwn Etrigan. But what would Superman do with all the possessed people that get brought to him? What about bringing people back to life, or healing others? Weather control? These are things Superman can't do. Or even fake.

Superman's best bet is to aim for "prophet". He could even carve out a giant idol of himself and hide on top doing a god-voice or something. Perhaps doing feats at light-speed so it appears to be the power of the idol as opposed to an agent.

This thread should have Dr. Manhattan in it. He'd clear all of them.

Originally posted by Master Court
You mean, Jesus didn't. Not couldn't.


Without making this a religious debate, and speaking purely feat-wise;


Take the fig tree. From a distance, Jesus didn't notice the fig tree didn't have any fruit. Yet, He knew Judas was going to betray Him. So, obviously, Jesus could've done the same thing to see the fig tree was barren and saved Himself and the D-12 a walk. Part of it was showing moderation in the use of His powers. Like bringing people back to life and all that. He even brought Himself back to life. So He had command over life and death. He could've made like Doctor Strange and snuffed out all the Romans and went on His way. And walking on water proves He had command over physics, likely exterior physics as well as His own, so super-strength wouldn't have been a biggie. It seems He simply didn't need it. He wasn't there to fight. He also stopped a raging sea storm that was terrifying the D-12. And as for flight. Remember, when He resurrected Himself, it was the body, not just the spirit. And He ascended to Heaven. Meaning flight.


Supes is limited though. Superman can't cast out demons. He gets sent to the f*cking moon by them. Jesus would pwn Etrigan. But what would Superman do with all the possessed people that get brought to him? What about bringing people back to life, or healing others? Weather control? These are things Superman can't do. Or even fake.

Superman's best bet is to aim for "prophet". He could even carve out a giant idol of himself and hide on top doing a god-voice or something. Perhaps doing feats at light-speed so it appears to be the power of the idol as opposed to an agent.
Well in that case, supes can just say he's using his powers in moderation whenever someone asks him to do something he can't.

Originally posted by Master Court
You mean, Jesus didn't. Not couldn't.


Without making this a religious debate, and speaking purely feat-wise;


Take the fig tree. From a distance, Jesus didn't notice the fig tree didn't have any fruit. Yet, He knew Judas was going to betray Him. So, obviously, Jesus could've done the same thing to see the fig tree was barren and saved Himself and the D-12 a walk. Part of it was showing moderation in the use of His powers. Like bringing people back to life and all that. He even brought Himself back to life. So He had command over life and death. He could've made like Doctor Strange and snuffed out all the Romans and went on His way. And walking on water proves He had command over physics, likely exterior physics as well as His own, so super-strength wouldn't have been a biggie. It seems He simply didn't need it. He wasn't there to fight. He also stopped a raging sea storm that was terrifying the D-12. And as for flight. Remember, when He resurrected Himself, it was the body, not just the spirit. And He ascended to Heaven. Meaning flight.


Supes is limited though. Superman can't cast out demons. He gets sent to the f*cking moon by them. Jesus would pwn Etrigan. But what would Superman do with all the possessed people that get brought to him? What about bringing people back to life, or healing others? Weather control? These are things Superman can't do. Or even fake.

Superman's best bet is to aim for "prophet". He could even carve out a giant idol of himself and hide on top doing a god-voice or something. Perhaps doing feats at light-speed so it appears to be the power of the idol as opposed to an agent.


We should just make a Jesus respect thread.

not when moses was so much cooler.

Originally posted by Bentley
We should just make a Jesus respect thread.

I thought about the same

Funny thing is they're really some comics with Jesus

Originally posted by Omega Vision
This thread should have Dr. Manhattan in it. He'd clear all of them. The SW people would still just think he's a super powerful alien well trained in The Force.


Great thread idea, btw.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
The SW people would still just think he's a super powerful alien well trained in The Force.


Great thread idea, btw.

I don't buy that someone is as powerful as manhattan or anyone at that level would just be deemed "crazy force user." I havent read the books but what are the top feats of a force user?

IMO one of the most impressive things is willing yourself out of existence (not that helps anyone but still kind of cool), and in the force unleashed making a star ship crash was ****ing AMAZING but nothing a skyfatehr can do with but a thought.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I don't buy that someone is as powerful as manhattan or anyone at that level would just be deemed "crazy force user." I havent read the books but what are the top feats of a force user?

IMO one of the most impressive things is willing yourself out of existence (not that helps anyone but still kind of cool), and in the force unleashed making a star ship crash was ****ing AMAZING but nothing a skyfatehr can do with but a thought. There are a lot of different feats for high end Force users, such as controlling black holes, causing supernovas and TKing an entire starship an entire light year in distance away. Han Solo's son could also travel backwards in time. Again, nothing a Skyfather or Manhattan theoretically couldn't do much easier, but the SW people won't be as impressed as we are.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
The SW people would still just think he's a super powerful alien well trained in The Force.


Great thread idea, btw.
I can see Dr. Manhattan going through great pains to deny his divinity to a bunch of medieval peasants but to no avail.
Peasant #1: What is your command o great and mighty nude blue God?
Doc: I am not God.
Peasant #2: Only the real God would deny his Divinity!
Doc: *sarcastically* Wow that's really good logic. You're right. I also didn't create Heaven and Earth.
Peasant #3: You did that?
Doc: No
All Peasants: Wow!

Ha! That reminds me of that "Life of Brian" scene.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Ha! That reminds me of that "Life of Brian" scene.
I admit that scene inspired it though Manhattan wouldn't care enough to argue for long and eventually he'd just accept their worship, or ignore it, probably the second one.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch


Great thread idea, btw.

Thanks

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I admit that scene inspired it though Manhattan wouldn't care enough to argue for long and eventually he'd just accept their worship, or ignore it, probably the second one. Or just teleport away.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Or just teleport away.
Doc: I'm sorry little peasant what were you saying? I'm having sex on three other planets right now and saving the Andromeda Galaxy from a supermassive blackhole. Oh of course I care about how many bales of hay you can lift, its... interesting.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but if Supes started pulling off repeat performances of Jesus from the Bible Christians would think he's the Anti-Crist because they're already expecting someone to start pulling off miracles claiming to be God. They wouldn't believe anyone who didn't wisk them away to a life of luxury in Heaven because that's what God's supposed to do next time they hear from him. Anyone making the claim of divinity who falls short of that mark will be seen as a false prophet come to lead them astray. That's not true at all.

Are you seriously claiming that if someone with all-mighty powers descended from above, performed miracles, made it rain in countries with droughts, gave food to all on earth, constructed heavenly architecture and instantly stopped murderers, rapists and thieves, and claimed he was god, that people would say "no, definitely an evil bastard."

People are convinced by a LOT easier than that. If what you're suggesting were true, nobody on earth would any longer have any faith in god.

Kal-El could construct a paradise on earth, and then make up reasons for people passing on. Say that they're going on to the next heavenly level. Say that he wants to see his creations continue to prosper in this land, and there's no reason to abandon it yet. etc, etc.

People would accept it as scripture.

Masses of people are convinced by what they feel when they pray and by what their elders tell them. If they saw a god-like being end all the hunger in africa, remove brain tumors by looking the person in the eyes, and on and on, they would be convinced beyond argument.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
People are convinced by a LOT easier than that. If what you're suggesting were true, nobody on earth would any longer have any faith in god. Ik0yz5Jo4Os


...just made me think of that for some reason. ermmhappy

Originally posted by Original Smurph
That's not true at all.

Are you seriously claiming that if someone with all-mighty powers descended from above, performed miracles, made it rain in countries with droughts, gave food to all on earth, constructed heavenly architecture and instantly stopped murderers, rapists and thieves, and claimed he was god, that people would say "no, definitely an evil bastard."

People are convinced by a LOT easier than that. If what you're suggesting were true, nobody on earth would any longer have any faith in god.

Kal-El could construct a paradise on earth, and then make up reasons for people passing on. Say that they're going on to the next heavenly level. Say that he wants to see his creations continue to prosper in this land, and there's no reason to abandon it yet. etc, etc.

People would accept it as scripture.

Masses of people are convinced by what they feel when they pray and by what their elders tell them. If they saw a god-like being end all the hunger in africa, remove brain tumors by looking the person in the eyes, and on and on, they would be convinced beyond argument.
That's exactly what they'd say, because that's pretty much what they're expecting the Anti-Crist to do.

Now he might be able to fight them all down and set himself with a good story to support what he IS capable of, but in that scenereo he's not really convincing people that he's the Christian God(which is what this thread is about ).

Let's see... If a man... Appeared in front of you. Claimed to be Jesus.... Performed miracles like Jesus... Heck he even looks like Jesus... You would automatically assume he's the Antichrist?

Becuase seeing isn't believing right? Your gonna go off third hand information from what one guy told another guy that told another guy that kept the info by oral representation for five hundred years before it was written down...

Originally posted by darthgoober
That's exactly what they'd say, because that's pretty much what they're expecting the Anti-Crist to do.

Now he might be able to fight them all down and set himself with a good story to support what he IS capable of, but in that scenereo he's not really convincing people that he's the Christian God(which is what this thread is about ). There's enough doubt and quarrel over the exact word of the bible, and people are far more focussed on Christ than the Anti-Christ. If this god-like being appeared before people, and begun showing the power to move the heavenly bodies through the sky if he wished, people would FAR sooner think "Jesus!" than "Anti-Crist!".

Frankly, that's common sense.

People nowadays even report "miracles" as a sign of Jesus and God and so forth. You never hear the words "he recovered from cancer! anti-christ!"

The Anti-Christ isn't even in the Bible. That concept was invented much later.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The Anti-Christ isn't even in the Bible. That concept was invented much later.

Read the apocalypse? (the beast that came from the seas and was given the power of the dragon?)

Originally posted by Bentley
Read the apocalypse? (the beast that came from the seas and was given the power of the dragon?)
That's not the Anti-Christ. The little passage from Revelations (Not Apocalypse) you're referring to is now considered by most scholars to be an allegory for the Roman Empire.