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Sideswipe and Bumblebee face off at the Grand Canyon. Both Autobots are free to use any weapons/methods they used in "Revenge of the Fallen."

Who wins?

Good match. Sideswipe is bigger and much faster. But from what we've seen so far Bumblebee has a much mor diversified arsenal. Bee has mortars, a plasma cannon, and a magnetic field generator. Sideswipe has his bazooka tubes and his duel battle blades. Sideswipe is definately more agile. But we've seen Bumblebee take on three Decepticons throughout the series in H2H combat. He's beaten them all with relative ease. I'll have to with Bumblebee for now.

I like Sideswipes mobility here.

This isn't a race or even a chase so mobility is mostly redundant. Basically, if it's up close then Sideswipe takes it. From a distance and I like Bee.

B ftw

Is Sideswipe the Autobot that sliced up a Decep up at the start?

If so, my vote goes to him.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
This isn't a race or even a chase so mobility is mostly redundant. Basically, if it's up close then Sideswipe takes it. From a distance and I like Bee. On the contrary, mobility and speed are essential, it enables SS to get up close and personal with B.

Originally posted by Placidity
Is Sideswipe the Autobot that sliced up a Decep up at the start?

If so, my vote goes to him. Yeppers.

Bumbleebee, easy. Better fighter going by onscreen feats. He fights larger foes, uses more combos, fights multiple opponents, uses a Bruce Lee-esque step-kick and skins a cat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV7l8qJXZsY

SS pwning that Decepticon in Fallen was pretty uber pwnage, Rob. He cut it in half yo.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
SS pwning that Decepticon in Fallen was pretty uber pwnage, Rob. He cut it in half yo.

While it was nice and flashy for the screen, Sideways was in car form and speeding away. BB ain't doing that.

My clip of BB being a total bad-ass and taking out larger/tougher opponents and that cat stands.

Matter of opinion, bro, I say SS gets inside BB's guard and cuts him up ninja style.

Check it out:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9n6nw_transformers-revenge-of-the-fallen_shortfilms


Problem here is that BB got MUCH more screen time than SS, he had more kills, therefore you are assuming he is better. That one kill SS made was more impressive than any BB kill.

While I agree with Rob in saying that we've seen more fights from Bee. You must also take into account what Rogue saying in that none of the other Autobots get any other screentime except Prime.

We haven't seen much of Ratchet and Ironhide either. No hesitation from me in confirming there superior to Bee.

Originally posted by Placidity
Is Sideswipe the Autobot that sliced up a Decep up at the start?

If so, my vote goes to him.

Historically Sideswipe will have always been the more effective warrior..

But since they botched the characterisation in this version horribly,
and instead of having the Autobot equivalent of Scrappy doo, they portray him more as the equivalent of someone as tough and big as Ironhide originally was.
(Rendering Ironhide irrelevant in the process.)

SS is faster, more agile, and he has wrist mounted blades which he used to cut a Decepticon in half with. He has hand cannons too, right?

And did BB have blades?

No, Bumblebee didn't have blades, but apparently he didn't need them. He pwned just about everybody he fought.

But did he fight anyone of SS's caliber? As fast as him? With blades he was like a surgeon with? I can't remember.

Not to my knowledge no, but from what he showed, he would have been capable of giving Sideswipe a fight, and the reason he cut clean through Sideways is because his blades were like Optimus', he could heat up the edges to increase cutting power.

What about a race? Corvette pwns Camaro!!! haermm

Originally posted by Darth Martin

We haven't seen much of Ratchet and Ironhide either. No hesitation from me in confirming there superior to Bee.

In the first film, they showed their firepower, agility and durability. That's why they'd beat BB.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Check it out:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9n6nw_transformers-revenge-of-the-fallen_shortfilms


Problem here is that BB got MUCH more screen time than SS, he had more kills, therefore you are assuming he is better. That one kill SS made was more impressive than any BB kill.

We go by screen feats. Probably the only reason Sideswipe went completely through Sideways was because Sideways was speeding away and Sidwswipe used Sideways' own momentum against him.

BB's fight with a Decep 2-3 times his size and that cat at the same time showed him to be the better /more versatile fighter. Sideswipe tries to get in close, BB uses his Bruce Lee step-kick. /the end.

Originally posted by Robtard
In the first film, they showed their firepower, agility and durability. That's why they'd beat BB. My was that they'd not had an extended one on one fight with anyone. Both of them got pwned by Starscream. But, they took his missiles. One missile left Bee legless. That's saying something.

Sideswipe seems to have a apparent lack of firepower. He's the "Wolverine" of the Autobots.

Originally posted by Robtard
We go by screen feats. Probably the only reason Sideswipe went completely through Sideways was because Sideways was speeding away and Sidwswipe used Sideways' own momentum against him.

BB's fight with a Decep 2-3 times his size and that cat at the same time showed him to be the better /more versatile fighter. Sideswipe tries to get in close, BB uses his Bruce Lee step-kick. /the end. Or SS "swipes" his leg off with his blades. new chapter.

I doubt it'd be that easy. How many swipes did Prime get in on Megatron and Starscream in the forest? How many limbs were lost b/c of it? Transformers have insane durability.

But the "Bruce Lee" kick will end Sideswipe? Come on. Blades pwns kicks any day.

Blades do not grant Sideswipe the automatic victory. Again, watch the forest fight scene. Prime must have stabbed Megatron and Starscream 50 times combined. Both of them walked away fine.

SS's speed and mobility are his biggest assets. BB opens fire, SS gets low and fast, weaving this way and that, he aint gonna be an easy target.

Sideswipe isn't a threat from a distance.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
But the "Bruce Lee" kick will end Sideswipe? Come on. Blades pwns kicks any day.

No, that and his other up-close attacks (see fight in the desert) would keep Sideswipe and his little blade at bay. Like I said, SS has one move on screen, BB is a total figthing bad-ass. He's like a minature Optimus.

Dude, you aren't being objective.

Yea, I am.

1 flashy move isn't superior to someone else showing extensive fighting prowess across the board.

This is like the Lee Vs. Ali thread, people saying "Bruce kicked a body bag and sent it flying!", as some sort of counter to Ali's superb and tested record of beating down mother****ers for two decades.

No, you aren't. You are going by quantity not quality. Sideswipes one scene was epic pwnage, and you aren't acknowledging it.

On reading though this, I reitterate that BB would probably take this....

Sideswipe looks too spindly in the midsection....A few good shots from Bumblebee could rip him in half, should Camero boy draw a bead on him with his many optional weapons....

If Sunstreaker ever turns up though, both brothers facing off against BB might stand a chance...
But thats a wholllllllllle other thread.

Lookit my sig, dude, he is no more "spindly" than BB. Even if he was, that means he presents less of a target, and BB was never shown blowing anyone in half with ease.

He had, actually.... Check out the toaster bots and stuff he took out (Small targets, fast moving) all one shot destructions...
And the magic healing powers didnt seem to work there.

I saw your sig, the character in film, and the figures.

Therefore, my "Spindley" assertion stands..

OK, you are now using BB taking out kitchen appliances as an argument.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No, you aren't. You are going by quantity not quality. Sideswipes one scene was epic pwnage, and you aren't acknowledging it.

It was sweet, yet that same attack isn't going to cut BB in half, like you imagine. You're merely going by the dazzle-effect.

In that scene, Sidewipe jumps over a speeding Sideways, he throws his blade and sticks it into SW's hood, as he completes his jump-flip, he grabs the blalde, rams it into the ground and uses SW's own speed and momentum to cut him in half; that was the key to SS cutting SW in twain. Had SW hit the breaks, there would have been no cutting.

So like I said, BB taking out Devastator who was about three times his size using a combo of punches, knees, kicks, body-throws and guns (ala McClane) shows he is by far the better fighter. Skinning the cat in the middle of that fight just adds to BB's bad-assery.

Edit: To Sadako's point, SS is spindlely; more-so than BB.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK, you are now using BB taking out kitchen appliances as an argument.

They were TFs....

Not normal toasters....?

And that feat was equal to you and I squishing cockroaches under our heel.

Originally posted by Robtard
It was sweet, yet that same attack isn't going to cut BB in half, like you imagine. You're merely going by the dazzle-effect.

In that scene, Sidewipe jumps over a speeding Sideways, he throws his blade and sticks it into SW's hood, as he completes his jump-flip, he grabs the blalde, rams it into the ground and uses SW's own speed and momentum to cut him in half; that was the key to SS cutting SW in twain. Had SW hit the breaks, there would have been no cutting.

So like I said, BB taking out Devastator who was about three times his size using a combo of punches, knees, kicks, body-throws and guns (ala McClane) shows he is by far the better fighter. Skinning the cat in the middle of that fight just adds to BB's bad-assery.

Edit: To Sadako's point, SS is spindlely; more-so than BB.

Dude, Devastator was rubbish, it couldn't even handle the twins. It was a big ass fat man weezing for air. All BB did was put it out of it's misery, SS woulda killed it faster and more efficiently.

And yes, Sideswipe jumps OVER the car (MUCH higher than BB can jump, he was at least 40 feet high), THROWS his blade in the hood, lands, then bisects it. Don't bring physics into this, dont try and downplay the badassness of that feat.

SS is faster, far more agile than BB, plus he has his guns to fall back on. If it goes CQC, SS's blades will do far more damage than BB's h2h, any fool can realize that.

I gotta go with Rob on this one. The feat was badass, and I'm not downplaying it, but all he really did was jump over Sideways and dig his blade into the hood. He heated the edges, and with Sideways already going so fast, he just sliced clean through.

That was really his only big feat, Bumblebee showed off a lot more skills, and in a h2h fight the blades might not be a concern. Since Optimus took it to Starscream and Megatron with both of his heat blades, Starscream kept fighting without an arm, then he put it back on later.

Bumblebee has shown to be a better fighter, and once that battlemask goes down he becomes a whirlwind of yellow fury.

http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Sideswipe_(ROTF)

Sideswipe is built to fight. He is sleek, fast and accomplished in battle. Focusing on his enemies with absolute attention, his blades are a shining blur as he leaps through the air, twisting to avoid enemy fire. He also has dual blasters that unfold out of his forearms and blasters on his back, which happen to be the exhast pipes when he is in car mode. Sideswipe transforms into a sweet silver Chevy Stingray. Converting to his vehicle mode to drive at blazing speeds, he uses every trick in the book to get close to his opponent, and put his powerful swords and blasters to work hacking, tearing,and firing at them. Sideswipe is not that strong, and may not have all the weapons an autobot could want, but he is one hell of a fighter!

Before joining the Autobots, Sideswipe traveled the Universe in search of other worthy transformers to battle. He learned a lot, and became one of the most skilled autobots on the team. In fact, Sideswipe has equal skill compared to Optimus Prime! Sideswipe teaches all of the other members of the Autobots all of the fighting styles and tricks he learned while traveling.

One of the few Transformers to have wheels as feet, Sideswipe is able to skate around his enemies and catch up to fleeing foes with ease.




http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Ultimate_Bumblebee

Bumblebee is one of Optimus Prime's most trusted lieutenants. Although he is not the strongest or most powerful of the Autobots, Bumblebee more than makes up for this with a bottomless well of luck, determination and bravery. He would gladly give his life to protect others and stop the Decepticons.

Badly damaged in battle, Bumblebee lost the ability to speak verbally, though he can still communicate over inter-Autobot frequencies (in a fashion that seems somewhat akin to instant messaging, a usable but more distant and less personal means of interaction).



Lemmee guess, BB's luck wins this?



And look closely at their midsections, SS is no more anorexic than BB.

Originally posted by KingD19
I gotta go with Rob on this one. The feat was badass, and I'm not downplaying it, but all he really did was jump over Sideways and dig his blade into the hood. He heated the edges, and with Sideways already going so fast, he just sliced clean through.

That was really his only big feat, Bumblebee showed off a lot more skills, and in a h2h fight the blades might not be a concern. Since Optimus took it to Starscream and Megatron with both of his heat blades, Starscream kept fighting without an arm, then he put it back on later.

Bumblebee has shown to be a better fighter, and once that battlemask goes down he becomes a whirlwind of yellow fury. And here we go, BB was shown fighting more, so he more badass. Open your mind, dude, check out the links I provided, and get off the BB bandwagon.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude, Devastator was rubbish, it couldn't even handle the twins. It was a big ass fat man weezing for air. All BB did was put it out of it's misery, SS woulda killed it faster and more efficiently.

And yes, Sideswipe jumps OVER the car (MUCH higher than BB can jump, he was at least 40 feet high), THROWS his blade in the hood, lands, then bisects it. Don't bring physics into this, dont try and downplay the badassness of that feat.

SS is faster, far more agile than BB, plus he has his guns to fall back on. If it goes CQC, SS's blades will do far more damage than BB's h2h, any fool can realize that.

I used the wrong name, he beat the Decep that was the bulldozer and the cat. Was bad-ass and showed his skill, I posted a link already.

Yea, what I said. The blade alone didn't cut SW, SS used SW's speed against him, just accept this. This same feat isn't likely happening to BB, SS won't be able to cut him into pieces with just one hit. SS's blades are metal, they're not energy blades like OP has.

SS in faster in travelling speed, fighting speed is an unknown. BB showed he is a total bad-ass in H2H, as he employs punches, kicks, knees, tosses and guns all together perfectly. All he have of SS is one fancy move versus a decep in car form running away.

Shitty wheel feet boy looks more delicate around that section.
His onscreen 3d appearance in the movie shows that.
Speaking of on screen feats, not much of your wiki quote was onscreen featery, RJ.

Guess your not to be blamed for the devastator confusion, Robtard... even Bay screwed up, calling Brawl (the tank) Devastator in the 1st movie.
The fool didnt even correct it for the DVDS.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Sideswipe_(ROTF)

Sideswipe is built to fight. He is sleek, fast and accomplished in battle. Focusing on his enemies with absolute attention, his blades are a shining blur as he leaps through the air, twisting to avoid enemy fire. He also has dual blasters that unfold out of his forearms and blasters on his back, which happen to be the exhast pipes when he is in car mode. Sideswipe transforms into a sweet silver Chevy Stingray. Converting to his vehicle mode to drive at blazing speeds, he uses every trick in the book to get close to his opponent, and put his powerful swords and blasters to work hacking, tearing,and firing at them. Sideswipe is not that strong, and may not have all the weapons an autobot could want, but he is one hell of a fighter!

Before joining the Autobots, Sideswipe traveled the Universe in search of other worthy transformers to battle. He learned a lot, and became one of the most skilled autobots on the team. In fact, Sideswipe has equal skill compared to Optimus Prime! Sideswipe teaches all of the other members of the Autobots all of the fighting styles and tricks he learned while traveling.

One of the few Transformers to have wheels as feet, Sideswipe is able to skate around his enemies and catch up to fleeing foes with ease.




http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Ultimate_Bumblebee

Bumblebee is one of Optimus Prime's most trusted lieutenants. Although he is not the strongest or most powerful of the Autobots, Bumblebee more than makes up for this with a bottomless well of luck, determination and bravery. He would gladly give his life to protect others and stop the Decepticons.

Badly damaged in battle, Bumblebee lost the ability to speak verbally, though he can still communicate over inter-Autobot frequencies (in a fashion that seems somewhat akin to instant messaging, a usable but more distant and less personal means of interaction).



Lemmee guess, BB's luck wins this?



And look closely at their midsections, SS is no more anorexic than BB.

There it is, fellas, read 'em and weep.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Sideswipe_(ROTF)

Sideswipe is built to fight. He is sleek, fast and accomplished in battle. Focusing on his enemies with absolute attention, his blades are a shining blur as he leaps through the air, twisting to avoid enemy fire. He also has dual blasters that unfold out of his forearms and blasters on his back, which happen to be the exhast pipes when he is in car mode. Sideswipe transforms into a sweet silver Chevy Stingray. Converting to his vehicle mode to drive at blazing speeds, he uses every trick in the book to get close to his opponent, and put his powerful swords and blasters to work hacking, tearing,and firing at them. Sideswipe is not that strong, and may not have all the weapons an autobot could want, but he is one hell of a fighter!

Before joining the Autobots, Sideswipe traveled the Universe in search of other worthy transformers to battle. He learned a lot, and became one of the most skilled autobots on the team. In fact, Sideswipe has equal skill compared to Optimus Prime! Sideswipe teaches all of the other members of the Autobots all of the fighting styles and tricks he learned while traveling.

One of the few Transformers to have wheels as feet, Sideswipe is able to skate around his enemies and catch up to fleeing foes with ease.




http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Ultimate_Bumblebee

Bumblebee is one of Optimus Prime's most trusted lieutenants. Although he is not the strongest or most powerful of the Autobots, Bumblebee more than makes up for this with a bottomless well of luck, determination and bravery. He would gladly give his life to protect others and stop the Decepticons.

Badly damaged in battle, Bumblebee lost the ability to speak verbally, though he can still communicate over inter-Autobot frequencies (in a fashion that seems somewhat akin to instant messaging, a usable but more distant and less personal means of interaction).



Lemmee guess, BB's luck wins this?



And look closely at their midsections, SS is no more anorexic than BB.

That really didn't help much, SS isn't that strong and he has few weapons, plus he's trained all the Autobots his tricks, ie BB is well aware of his fancy moves.

But we go by movie feats; by those feats, BB is by far the better and more versatile fighter. Repeat: Punches, kicks, knees, tosses and he has more guns.

Originally posted by Robtard
That really didn't help much, SS isn't that strong and he has few weapons, plus he's trained all the Autobots his tricks, ie BB is well aware of his fancy moves.

But we go by movie feats; by those feats, BB is by far the better and more versatile fighter. Excuse me, we go by movie feats AND wiki facts.

SS taught BB how to fight, basically, AND it says he has skill equal to Prime.

As for the strength argument, it says the same about BB. Dooooooooooooooooh.

Read it and weep?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Shitty wheel feet boy looks more delicate around that section.
His onscreen 3d appearance in the movie shows that.
Speaking of on screen feats, not much of your wiki quote was onscreen featery, RJ.


Speaking of which, I presume that the reason you reposted the wiki link quote immediately after my above post, that you couldnt see it because of the many tears already in your eyes...?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Excuse me, we go by movie feats AND wiki facts.

SS taught BB how to fight, basically, AND it says he has skill equal to Prime.

As for the strength argument, it says the same about BB. Dooooooooooooooooh.

And whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhy then did Sideswipe not kill Megatron, The Fallen and then just piss off back to Cybertron...? Oh yeah....thats right, hes not the all powerful being that you made out...

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Excuse me, we go by movie feats AND wiki facts.

SS taught BB how to fight, basically, AND it says he has skill equal to Prime.

As for the strength argument, it says the same about BB. Dooooooooooooooooh.

Movie feats first, as this is the "Movie Versus Forum". Wiki is merely a supplemental.

Yeah, so BB is a very capable fighter. That fight with the Bulldozer and cat showed his raw skill, agility, durability and speed. Which surpass anything we've see SS doing.

Did I argue that BB would simply overpower SS in a strength match? I didn't. BB would use his skill to punch, kick, knee, toss and shoot SS into a pile of shit, like he did the Bullldozer that was about 3 times his size. BB is the McClane of the autobots.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
And whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhy then did Sideswipe not kill Megatron, The Fallen and then just piss off back to Cybertron...? Oh yeah....thats right, hes not the all powerful being that you made out... Theres a difference between skill and strength, dude, www.dictionary.com.

Originally posted by Robtard
Movie feats first, as this is the "Movie Versus Forum". Wiki is merely a supplemental.

Yeah, so BB is a very capable fighter. That fight with the Bulldozer and cat showed his raw skill, agility, durability and speed. Which surpass anything we've see SS doing.

Did I argue that BB would simply overpower SS in a strength match? I didn't. BB would use his skill to punch, kick, knee, toss and shoot SS into a pile of shit, like he did the Bullldozer that was about 3 times his size. BB is the McClane of the autobots. Forum rules dictate that wiki is a creditable source, are we gonna have this argument again? Cuz you'll lose, again.

SS is more skilled than BB, it says it right there in the wiki quote. Plus he knows all BB's moves.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Forum rules dictate that wiki is a creditable source, are we gonna have this argument again? Cuz you'll lose, again.

SS is more skilled than BB, it says it right there in the wiki quote. Plus he knows all BB's moves.

I didn't say it wasn't, now did I. You know what's a more credible source? Movie feats, son.

Okay, he has more skill(how much more?). That alone isn't going to cut it, considering what we actually see BB doing.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Theres a difference between skill and strength, dude, www.dictionary.com.

Exactly...So that doesnt look good for your appraisal.

Good link that.. ..Also I recommend you look up the word "excrementitious" on it.
You'll see that it pertains to your argument and debating style.

Originally posted by Robtard
I didn't say it wasn't, now did I. You know what's a more credible source? Movie feats, son.

Okay, he has more skill(how much more?). That alone isn't going to cut it, considering what we actually see BB doing. Movie feats AND wiki, Mijo, they both count. Since SS wasnt shown much onscreen, we have to use the wiki link, which has "Revenge of the Fallen" all over it, to rate him.

Skill equal to Prime.
Taught BB how to fight.
Dual blades.
Blasters on his wrists and back.
Superior speed and agility than BB.

Survey says.......SS pwns him.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Exactly...So that doesnt look good for your appraisal.

Good link that.. ..Also I recommend you look up the word "excrementitious".
You'll see that it pertains to your argument and debating style. Sure it does!!!

Just accept the pwn (Which was administered in 100% accordance to MVF rules) and call it a day.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Movie feats AND wiki, Mijo, they both count. Since SS wasnt shown much onscreen, we have to use the wiki link, which has "Revenge of the Fallen" all over it, to rate him.

Skill equal to Prime.
Taught BB how to fight.
Dual blades.
Blasters on his wrists and back.
Superior speed and agility than BB.

Survey says.......SS pwns him.

Yet movie feats are the main source, as this is the MOVIE VS forum; not the Wiki Vs Forum,

Here, let me sign into my Wiki account and edit in a "Bumblee is invulnerable, fires nukes and worships Jesus", so that can somehow superceed the onscreen feats.

Dude, I see you're on a Sideswipe love-fest with the sig and all, but don't abandon logic for ****s' sake. One move doesn't counter a slew of bad-assery on screen.

Edit: Were in your wiki article does it say that SS "has superior speed and agility to BB"?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Sure it does!!!

Just accept the pwn (Which was administered in 100% accordance to MVF rules) and call it a day.

Excellent! Then we are in agreement.

Excrementitious it is then..


I already have accepted it, felt how so very very good it felt, learned to love it, and will enjoy remembering said pwnage of you here, in the cold winter months.

Pwned, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand pwned.

Butthurt? Yeah you are.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Pwned, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand pwned.

Butthurt? Yeah you are.

RJ!

Over HERE!!!!!! bangin



Come away from that mirror, stop shouting at it....its done nothing to you.

Oh hi der, lemme present some stats on these two fighters given to them on the back of their toys, since, you know, they're suppose to apply to their onscreen counterparts.

http://www.seibertron.com/images/toys/files/65/r_sideswipe008.jpg vs. http://www.seibertron.com/images/toys/files/65/r_bumblebee011.jpg

Hope this helps, from the looks of it, both combatants are equal with SS being just slightly, slightly better.

My opinion: Going by toy stats and on-screen feats, I think BB can take this since he's toppled Decepticons with much higher stats than SS.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd checkmate...



Thanks Scythe.

Dont forget Sideswipe's "Spindley git" rating of 13....

Hmm, too bad that shit holds absolutely zero water here.

The pwn stands

Wiki and screen feats only.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Hmm, too bad that shit holds absolutely zero water here.

The pwn stands

Wiki and screen feats only.

The pwn stands, for you. your word isn't law, it's all opinions... For you to think that your decision should be applied to everyones, well, that's just silly. Also funny, but it's okay, you'll only say pwn a 73rd time.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Hmm, too bad that shit holds absolutely zero water here.

The pwn stands

Wiki and screen feats only.

Your Wiki-frantic-clinging link really didn't prove much. Only thing it says is SS is a great fighter, on par with OP's skill level.

Applying onscreen feats, BB isn't all that behind to OP in skill. So his feats against the bulldozer and cat pull him a win here.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Hmm, too bad that shit holds absolutely zero water here.

The pwn stands

Wiki and screen feats only.

And what do you think the wiki info is based on...?
(Dont worry the wiki quotes, can be altered quite easily so they're real reliable, right...?)

Yes it does indeed stand.
You are so Pwned that we are you gonna have to called it Qwned, 'cause Pwned just doesn't cut it anymore, when describe massive quantum pwenencesse such as these.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
And what do you think the wiki info is based on...?
(Dont worry the wiki quotes, can be altered quite easily so they're real reliable, right...?)

Yes it does indeed stand.
You are so Pwned that we are you gonna have to called it Qwned, 'cause Pwned just doesn't cut it anymore, when describe massive pwenencesse such as these.

Just to clarify what Scythe posted, those stats are from the movie toys; not another TF continuity. So it does indeed pretain directly to the movie.

http://transformers.moviechronicles.com/2009-04/more-character-bios-and-toy-packages/

Though it's still pretty irrelevant, as BB's movie feats surpass SS's.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
And what do you think the wiki info is based on...?
(Dont worry the wiki quotes, can be altered quite easily so they're real reliable, right...?)

Yes it does indeed stand.
You are so Pwned that we are you gonna have to called it Qwned, 'cause Pwned just doesn't cut it anymore, when describe massive pwenencesse such as these. The wiki info is based on the ROTF movie, it even has ROTF attached to it. See, your argument falls on it's face when you consider that SS wasn't shown fighting as much as BB. The wiki link PROVES SS is superior to BB in every way.

Tell you what, find a wiki quote that disproves it and we'll talk.

Until then, accept the pwn Mk?

Originally posted by Robtard
Just to clarify what Scythe posted, those stats are from the movie toys; not another TF continuity. So it does indeed pretain directly to the movie.

http://transformers.moviechronicles.com/2009-04/more-character-bios-and-toy-packages/

Though it's still pretty irrelevant, as BB's movie feats surpass SS's. But the toys aren't a creditable or even allowable MVF source.

Pwned again.

Tell me this, who would win if Rambo fought Jet Li's "Fearless" character h2h to the death?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
But the toys aren't a creditable or even allowable MVF source.

Pwned again.

Tell me this, who would win if Rambo fought Jet Li's "Fearless" character h2h to the death?

Did you miss where I said "irrelevant" and went back to movie feats? It was in clear print.

You have yet to prove a relevant single point of yours correct. So you should just stop arbitarily throwing the word "pwned" around, it's silly and childish.

Probably the Jet Li character, as he had better on-screen movie feats. Just like BB had better feats over SS.

The only thing your little wiki link helped you with was the "SS is on par to OP in fighting skill", but going by movie feats, Bumblebee isn't all that far behind to OP in skill, as he punches, kicks, knees, tosses and uses his guns all in a dizzying combo of destruction, similar to OP.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The wiki info is based on the ROTF movie, it even has ROTF attached to it. See, your argument falls on it's face when you consider that SS wasn't shown fighting as much as BB. The wiki link PROVES SS is superior to BB in every way.

Tell you what, find a wiki quote that disproves it and we'll talk.

Until then, accept the pwn Mk?

Ummmmmmmmm nope.
It doesn't. I know your blind faith side is strong in you, young Skywalker so I can see how you desperately would love to be in chrage of what is and isnt real about on screen feats in the movie, but ultimately, the movie speaks for itself.

Nope. Its not for me to teach you that the sky is blue and that the water is wet, some truths just shouldnt have to be pointed out.

Watch Tfs 2, then I will accept your apology for the audacity of your wild claims....
SS is as about as significant (and nearly as spindly) as the Arcee twins...


Ive told you, I have accepted both pwning and qwning you.

And oh, lookie:

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Revenge_of_the_Fallen_(film)

Transformers wiki, talking about ROTF, and what do we have here?

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Sideswipe_%28ROTF%29

The exact link I posted earlier

But hey, it's all crap, yes?


Bottom line is this.....SS is not shown onscreen enough, and you guys are using the flimsy argument that since BB is shown more, he is more uber. I buried that line of crapola

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Ummmmmmmmm nope.
It doesn't. I know your blind faith side is strong in you, young Skywalker so I can see how you desperately would love to be in chrage of what is and isnt real about on screen feats in the movie, but ultimately, the movie speaks for itself.

Nope. Its not for me to teach you that the sky is blue and that the water is wet, some truths just shouldnt have to be pointed out.

Watch Tfs 2, then I will accept your apology for the audacity of your wild claims....
SS is as about as significant (and nearly as spindly) as the Arcee twins...


Ive told you, I have accepted both pwning and qwning you.

Mhm, the movie speaks for itself, and wiki expands on that, fact. Again, I proved SS is superior, I adhered to MVF rules 100%, but it is being ignored.

I made no wild claims, I posted evidence that SS is superior And you don't like it But hey, it's all good, yes?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Mhm, the movie speaks for itself, and wiki expands on that, fact. Again, I proved SS is superior, I adhered to MVF rules 100%, but it is being ignored.

I made no wild claims, I posted evidence that SS is superior And you don't like it But hey, it's all good, yes?

Again, the only thing your wiki-post proved was that SS is skilled on par with OP. That in no way means he's levels and levels more skilled than BB, as BB showed (not wiki-shit) similar skills in fighting to OP, what's more, BB showed similar with far less to work with(size, power, weapons etc), so this is actually another plus towards BB. Thanks.

Once BB's battle-mask flips down, SS is doomed. It's like his version of Lincoln Hawk's trucker hat.

Edit: Listen, if TF 3 comes out and they make SS out to be some total bad-ass, then sure. Until then, stop making yourself look foolish and maybe save that sig for cheerleading then.

Originally posted by Robtard
Again, the only thing your wiki-post proved was that SS is skilled on par with OP. That in no way means he's levels and levels more skilled than BB, as BB showed (not wiki-shit) similar skills in fighting to OP, what's more, he showed similar with far less to work with, so this is actually another plus towards BB. Thanks. But the fact remains that wiki counts here. MVF rules are quite clear on this, and you are breaking the rules by ignoring the facts that I am presenting.

Wiki (The wiki site dedicated to ROTF) implies that SS is superior to BB.

Gracias

Disprove it? Yeah, thought not.

Hey Scythe, those stat profiles are cool. Got any others?

Your faith in Wiki is misplaced.... http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090708042030AA1SD9Z

Also, RJ: Its strange that you selctively ignore the stats, despite them being official info that wikipedia gets it from... whilst arguing for wiki dominance...

From wikipedia:
"Sideswipe appears in the 2009 film, Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen. He transforms into a Chevrolet Corvette Stingray Concept, and has two wheeled feet like Bonecrusher in the first film. He is armed with two retractable Cybertronium arm blades in robot mode along with a double barreled Machine Gun on each of his wrists and a gun on his back. Early concept art of Sideswipe protrayed him as being red, but he would end up silver.

His Hasbro battle bio states that he is 15 ft. tall and that he's a master in almost every form of martial arts on Cybertron."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideswipe

Way to gimp yourself....good to see that some things'll never change.

Originally posted by Placidity
Hey Scythe, those stat profiles are cool. Got any others?

Sure, I get them all from www.seibertron.com. Go to galleries and almost every toy there has a pic of their stats.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
But the fact remains that wiki counts here. MVF rules are quite clear on this, and you are breaking the rules by ignoring the facts that I am presenting.

Wiki (The wiki site dedicated to ROTF) implies that SS is superior to BB.

Gracias

Disprove it? Yeah, thought not.

What the hell, man? I said sure, your wiki counts, yet doesn't really prove much except that SS has some level of fighting skill above BB; but the actual degree is unknown and going by onscreen feats, BB isn't that far behind. That alone isn't topping BB's on-screen feats..

Originally posted by Robtard
What the hell, man? I said sure, your wiki counts, yet doesn't really prove much except that SS has some level of fighting skill above BB; but the actual degree is unknown and going by onscreen feats, BB isn't that far behind. That alone isn't topping BB's on-screen feats.. Jesus dude, try reading it again:

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Sideswipe_(ROTF)

Sideswipe is built to fight. He is sleek, fast and accomplished in battle. Focusing on his enemies with absolute attention, his blades are a shining blur as he leaps through the air, twisting to avoid enemy fire. He also has dual blasters that unfold out of his forearms and blasters on his back, which happen to be the exhast pipes when he is in car mode. Sideswipe transforms into a sweet silver Chevy Stingray. Converting to his vehicle mode to drive at blazing speeds, he uses every trick in the book to get close to his opponent, and put his powerful swords and blasters to work hacking, tearing,and firing at them. Sideswipe is not that strong, and may not have all the weapons an autobot could want, but he is one hell of a fighter!

Before joining the Autobots, Sideswipe traveled the Universe in search of other worthy transformers to battle. He learned a lot, and became one of the most skilled autobots on the team. In fact, Sideswipe has equal skill compared to Optimus Prime! Sideswipe teaches all of the other members of the Autobots all of the fighting styles and tricks he learned while traveling.

One of the few Transformers to have wheels as feet, Sideswipe is able to skate around his enemies and catch up to fleeing foes with ease.




http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Ultimate_Bumblebee

Bumblebee is one of Optimus Prime's most trusted lieutenants. Although he is not the strongest or most powerful of the Autobots, Bumblebee more than makes up for this with a bottomless well of luck, determination and bravery. He would gladly give his life to protect others and stop the Decepticons.

Badly damaged in battle, Bumblebee lost the ability to speak verbally, though he can still communicate over inter-Autobot frequencies (in a fashion that seems somewhat akin to instant messaging, a usable but more distant and less personal means of interaction).



Lemmee guess, BB's luck wins this?



And look closely at their midsections, SS is no more anorexic than BB.

In fact, Sideswipe has equal skill compared to Optimus Prime! Sideswipe teaches all of the other members of the Autobots all of the fighting styles and tricks he learned while traveling.

There it is. There's the evidence that SS is superior to BB.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Your faith in Wiki is misplaced.... http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090708042030AA1SD9Z

Also, RJ: Its strange that you selctively ignore the stats, despite them being official info that wikipedia gets it from... whilst arguing for wiki dominance...

From wikipedia:
"Sideswipe appears in the 2009 film, Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen. He transforms into a Chevrolet Corvette Stingray Concept, and has two wheeled feet like Bonecrusher in the first film. He is armed with two retractable Cybertronium arm blades in robot mode along with a double barreled Machine Gun on each of his wrists and a gun on his back. Early concept art of Sideswipe protrayed him as being red, but he would end up silver.

His Hasbro battle bio states that he is 15 ft. tall and that he's a master in almost every form of martial arts on Cybertron."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideswipe

Way to gimp yourself....good to see that some things'll never change.

What are creditable sources here?

Wait, I'll answer that: Movie feats and wiki links.

See how that works?

the wiki link I posted proves without a doubt SS is better.

Theres nothing to suggest that bumblebee used only techniques that Sideswipe taught him....In fact, it looks like Bumblebee was doing fine for along time before he came along..

Forget Sideswipe...hes a minor character in Bayformers.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Jesus dude, try reading it again:



In fact, Sideswipe has equal skill compared to Optimus Prime! Sideswipe teaches all of the other members of the Autobots all of the fighting styles and tricks he learned while traveling.

There it is. There's the evidence that SS is superior to BB.

Okay, where does it say SS is superior? Let me guess, a student can never equal or surpass the teacher?You just "pwned" yourself.

What I said stands, BB is similar in skill to OP going by movie feats; your wiki links shows why, because SS trained BB. So at best (for you), BB is slightly less skilled than SS.

BB wins going by movie feats still, better weapons, and more versatile attacks.

Originally posted by Robtard
Okay, where does it say SS is superior? Let me guess, a student can never equal or surpass the teacher?

You just "pwned" yourself. What I said stands, BB is similar in skill to OP going by movie feats; your wiki links shows why, because SS trained BB. So at best (for you), BB is slightly less skilled than SS.

BB wins going by movie feats still, better weapons, and more versatile attacks.

And who taught him said versatile attacks?:

Sideswipe teaches all of the other members of the Autobots all of the fighting styles and tricks he learned while traveling.

Surpass the teacher? So BB is equal in skill to Optimus? Because SS is:

In fact, Sideswipe has equal skill compared to Optimus Prime!

Sooooooooooooo SS wins by movie feats AND wiki links, by wiki links that come directly from a wiki page dedicated to ROTF. Nothing you say or post will disprove this.

This thread was over the moment I posted the link, I'm out. I'll check back occasionally to see if any EVIDENCE has been brought forth disproving what I have presented.


Buh bye

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9733/sideswipe.gif

Damn I'm good!

/End topic

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And who taught him said versatile attacks?:

Sideswipe teaches all of the other members of the Autobots all of the fighting styles and tricks he learned while traveling.

Surpass the teacher? So BB is equal in skill to Optimus? Because SS is:

In fact, Sideswipe has equal skill compared to Optimus Prime!

Sooooooooooooo SS wins by movie feats AND wiki links, by wiki links that come directly from a wiki page dedicated to ROTF. Nothing you say or post will disprove this.

This thread was over the moment I posted the link, I'm out. I'll check back occasionally to see if any EVIDENCE has been brought forth disproving what I have presented.


Buh bye

You didn't actually prove anything.

BB's skill on screen is similar to OP's. His fight with the Bulldozer and cat show this. If SS is on par with OP, than he's also on par (or slighter higher) to BB.

By movie feats, SS doesn't win, don't be a tool, he had one little scene, doing one move. BB fought like a complete animal; we actually see this.

The wiki links only really proves that SS is skilled and he taught the others. Which makes sense why BB is so skilled.

Covering your ears and stamping your feet is no way to debate, RJ. It's childish, stop it.

Originally posted by Placidity
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9733/sideswipe.gif

Damn I'm good!

/End topic

Already been covered, he stabbed the blade into the ground and used SW's own speed/momentum to force his blade through. Was a cool move, that isn't happening to BB though, unless you think BB is going to be in car form and running away the whole fight.

From a fighting standpoint, this is more impressive. See the kicks, kness, punches, tosses and gun combos.

zV7l8qJXZsY

Originally posted by Robtard
Already been covered, he stabbed the blade into the ground and used SW's own speed/momentum to force his blade through. Was a cool move, that isn't happening to BB though, unless you think BB is going to be in car form and running away the whole fight.

Yes thats how Swipey cut him, but why do you think thats the only circumstance he could cut someone?

Originally posted by Placidity
Yes thats how Swipey cut him, but why do you think thats the only circumstance he could cut someone?

Don't know for certain. But he wasn't shown cutting anyone else in half. His blades also aren't energy-based, like Prime's. The momentum thing does make logical sense though.

Originally posted by Robtard
Don't know for certain. But he wasn't shown cutting anyone else in half. His blades also aren't energy-based, like Prime's. The momentum thing does make logical sense though.

Well, yea you are right, you can't be sure. But I don't choose to assume he can't. And while his Blades weren't glowing like Prime's, the Decepticon that got sliced was shown to be super-heated on his open wounds, so it seems to be its still heat-based.


Now it seems for you the real argument was that you don't think SS could slice BB like he did to the Decep. My opinion is that he can, and even assuming if he wasn't strong enough in a normal fight, his blades certainly has the shown the capability to do some real damage. I think its unreasonable to think he couldn't even cut (not clean slice) BB and damage him.

Really comes down to Swipes weaponry. RJ thinks SS is much more skilled, and you think BB is on par (Or do you think BB is better? Dunno haven't been following that much). Lets say they are around the same. This is how I see it, you have two good fighters, one has two swords, the other only has his fists.

Also, BB has a British accent so...

So thats just one more reason that makes him one dangerous motherfu**er....lol
(BB should in that case, sample this at 6:33 and use it in his next confrontation with a decep...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMh0AMGMaIE)

And its two swords versus an array of weaponry that seems to do the job just fine...

The heating up of the severed car edges was probably because of some highly likely things:

PIS..? (Like in the 1st one where blunt force trauma from Megatron's swingey arm punches through concrete balcony or roof when chasing Sam near the end 'causing the concrete to explode flames and shit.

Friction from a titanium sword ripping through such and such a metal that the TFs are made of...?

The FX guys needing to somehow render the cut visible in the dark scene that that was during...?

Originally posted by Placidity
Well, yea you are right, you can't be sure. But I don't choose to assume he can't. And while his Blades weren't glowing like Prime's, the Decepticon that got sliced was shown to be super-heated on his open wounds, so it seems to be its still heat-based.


Now it seems for you the real argument was that you don't think SS could slice BB like he did to the Decep. My opinion is that he can, and even assuming if he wasn't strong enough in a normal fight, his blades certainly has the shown the capability to do some real damage. I think its unreasonable to think he couldn't even cut (not clean slice) BB and damage him.

Really comes down to Swipes weaponry. RJ thinks SS is much more skilled, and you think BB is on par (Or do you think BB is better? Dunno haven't been following that much). Lets say they are around the same. This is how I see it, you have two good fighters, one has two swords, the other only has his fists.

Also, BB has a British accent so...

Probably friction, hence the high rate of speed.

I'm sure the blades would damage BB, as they're weapons, just that SS wouldn't be able to roll up to BB and kill him in one hit.

Going by movie feats and what that wiki-thing said, they're similar in skill, with the edge probably/maybe going to SS. BB has more than two fist, he has an array of guns and he was shown uses some serious combo attacks, punches, knees, kicks and tosses, along with his guns.

I'm going to have to say Bumblebee>Sideswipe based on screen evidence alone. Rogue, your citing encyclopedia and wikia qoutes. Rob is pointing out actual film scenes. The Sideways kill "looked" cool but was less impressive then Bee's scenes.

Bumblebee's on-screen resume:
*Defeated Barricade
*Killed Rampage
*Killed Ravage
*Killed Brawl (didn't solo but put alot of holes in him, had the highest damage %) while legless.
*Helped Prime drive the Decepticons out while saving Sam and co.
*Destroyed all of the kitchen-bots at Sam's house.

Sideswipe killing Sideways, while cool, is kind of a moot point. Sideways was a glorified messenger, and he would rather run than fight, which is why he ran. Sideswipe killed a fleeing Decepticon not designed for combat, Bumblebee killed several Decepticons, most bigger and more heavily armed than him, who were actively trying to extinguish his spark. And he soloed a few.

Here's a general question, actually one of many I have been pondering...Are all Transformers made of the same metal, or at least similar?

They never specified, but the way I see it is that while they are all similar, some are stronger/more durable than others based on their design and other factors. Megatron got hut by Prime's canon, but Jazz did nothing to him. Iron-Hide took Starscreams missle, Bumblebee didn't. Although it could be argued that Bumblebee was the only one who really got hit, and Iron-Hide was better shielded behind the truck than he was.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Here's a general question, actually one of many I have been pondering...Are all Transformers made of the same metal, or at least similar?

Stands to reason they are from a movie standpoint. What makes some more durable than others is overall size and build. IE a tank TF is going to be tougher than a Datsun TF.

Originally posted by Robtard
Stands to reason they are from a movie standpoint. What makes some more durable than others is overall size and build. IE a tank TF is going to be tougher than a Datsun TF. So someone like Bumblebee or Optimus, who are designed for battle, will likely have thicker armor than say Sideways?

Maybe, maybe no. OP is a Prime, so he's probably tougher just because of that.

Ok, next question, and this one is a bit silly....Bumblebee, does Sam have to change his tires on occasion? Or change the oil?

In the cartoon/comic version, no. In the movie version, possibly, possibly not. In the 1st movie Bumblebee 'peed' oil on Agent Simmons. He might have to fill up after that because he does have oil.

However, in the newest movie tie-in book, I believe it was Iron-Hide who said that they basically eat metal, which is why they never have to reload their weapons, and it supposedly heals them as well as providing ammo and sustenance.

K, you answered my next question too haermm

No prob.

Eat metal and crap out bullets, awesome and very McClane-esque.

If you can find it, I suggest you give it a read, it's really good for such a short book, plus it shows how evil and backstabbing the Cons can be, while showing the opposite for the Autos.

Originally posted by KingD19
If you can find it, I suggest you give it a read, it's really good for such a short book, plus it shows how evil and backstabbing the Cons can be, while showing the opposite for the Autos.

I grew up watching the original cartoons. I'm aware of the good vs evil aspects.

Originally posted by KingD19
In the cartoon/comic version, no. In the movie version, possibly, possibly not. In the 1st movie Bumblebee 'peed' oil on Agent Simmons. He might have to fill up after that because he does have oil.

However, in the newest movie tie-in book, I believe it was Iron-Hide who said that they basically eat metal, which is why they never have to reload their weapons, and it supposedly heals them as well as providing ammo and sustenance.

Yet Ravage appeared to be semi organic too, judging from all that shit around his spine.
And with the portryal of "hatchlings" or whatever in ROTF, it looks like Bayformers are not so "Non biological" after all....
I prefered the G1 slant on that issue, obviously.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Yet Ravage appeared to be semi organic too, judging from all that shit around his spine.
And with the portryal of "hatchlings" or whatever in ROTF, it looks like Bayformers are not so "Non biological" after all....
I prefered the G1 slant on that issue, obviously.

Could have all been synthetic lubricants? Bay, what a total ****. Lips on Optimus Prime.

Dammit sadako, I was just gonna ask about Ravages spine haermm

How does Sideswipe win by movie feats? What did he do besides beat a car that didn't even transform?

Bumblebee had multiple fights in both and won them all. One was against two Decepticons.

-AC

Well, considering Sideswipe has skill that's on par with Prime, and that he taught the Autobots the fighting styles/methods he learned, he probably emerges the victor.

If you want to read my argument here, check out pages 1-5, I'm not gonna get into it again.

Where exactly does he show this in the movie, though?

In the movie, Revenge of the Fallen, where does Sideswipe factually exhibit combat ability superior to that of Bumblebee? I don't want text, I want movie feats. That's what this forum is.

-AC

MVF rules state that wiki information is a creditable source. Since we see Sideswipe in only one scene, that's what we go by, wiki. See, we see Bumblebee fighting alot, because he is a more featured character, but that doesn't mean he is a better fighter.

Think about it, who is shown in more fighting scenes? Bumblebee or Megatron? If I recall correctly, Bumblebee had more fighting scenes, but that doesn't mean he is a better fighter than Megatron, does it?

Yet going by screen feats, Megatron is more powerful, has more durability and can dish out a ton more damage than BB, so that's why Megatron would win. Screen feats.

Exactly.

Wiki is to support what already exists on screen, not to take the place of an initial argument.

What exists on screen will always be the prevailing argument, since it's a movie forum.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
MVF rules state that wiki information is a creditable source. Since we see Sideswipe in only one scene, that's what we go by, wiki. See, we see Bumblebee fighting alot, because he is a more featured character, but that doesn't mean he is a better fighter.

Think about it, who is shown in more fighting scenes? Bumblebee or Megatron? If I recall correctly, Bumblebee had more fighting scenes, but that doesn't mean he is a better fighter than Megatron, does it?

He's in more than one scene, but in that one scene all he does is use a Decepticon's own momentum to destroy him.

So, going by what we have factually seen in these MOVIES, the ACTUAL MOVIES WE ARE DISCUSSING, Bumblebee wins.

Bumblebee has proven himself to be the more capable warrior on film. It doesn't matter what an editable database says, because it hasn't happened.

If you said "I'm great at sports.", and I said "I am too.", why should I be held on par with you if you've proved it and all I have is a piece of paper with people saying "Yeah, he is."?

Bumblebee has beaten two Decepticons in one fight, he beat another one in a brawl.

Sideswipe hasn't shown, on film (The main source before anything else, even above wiki), that he can do that.

Movies overrule Wiki, wiki is not a more credible source than the movies themselves. They are to SUPPORT an INITIAL claim, not be the initial claim. Wikipedia claiming that Sideswipe is as good as Prime doesn't matter here because there's no footage of that proof.

Having a sig doesn't now make you a Transformers scribe, neither does liking Sideswipe.

Bumblebee wins.

Provide movie footage that suggests otherwise or concede the point.

-AC

Sideswipe being as good as Prime and teaching the other bots to fight was talked about in comics, which then made it to Wiki. Last I checked, shit they did in novels and comics doesn't apply here at all. It's like applying SW novels to Luke Skywalker all over again. The ROTF comics are canon in the movie continuity, but are seperate from the film itself, therefore shouldn't even apply. Though I did ask Impediment about the stats on the back of the toys, since they can best represent what a character's background is. Is he approves them, well that's just neat, iif he doesn't, it's okay, cuz screen feats trump anything Sideswipe has done. Bumblebee takes this.

K.

MVF rules #7:

2) Google and Wikipedia are your friends. Use them wisely to find all sorts of neat material for your threads.

The information I posted was from wiki, a Transformers wiki, dedicated to ROTF. The wiki link stated that Sideswipe has fighting skill equal to Optimus Prime, therefore it is a fact that Sideswipe has fighting skill equal to Optimus Prime. I guess you guys think Bumblebee can beat Prime then?

For the umpteenth time, I have PROVEN that Sideswipe is superior to Bumblebee. I did so 100% in accordance with MVF rules. I'm not gonna go page after page after page and turn this into a cluster****. I'll check back, AGAIN, every so often, to see if any EVIDENCE has been brought forth to disprove that Sideswipe is better than Bumblebee.

BTW, Saying "Bumblebee fought X amount of Decepticons onscreen" means nothing, get over it.

Evidence, people, NOT opinions.

Dude, we've covered this and you didn't prove anything except that Sideswipe is a very capable fighter with your wiki post. Okay.

That still doesn't counter that we see BB having similar fighting skills as Optimus, though in a smaller/weaker package.

So considering we see SS kill one guy who is running away and see BB tearing apart multiple foes who are actively fighting against him, logic dictates BB would defeat SS in a fight. Logic, apply it.

You're funny, Rob. You acknowledge the info in the wiki post, you admitted this. The info states SS has fighting skill equal to Prime.

Let's try this another way....Bumblebee versus Prime, who wins and why?

Prime would solo all of the Autobots.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You're funny, Rob. You acknowledge the info in the wiki post, you admitted this. The info states SS has fighting skill equal to Prime.

Let's try this another way....Bumblebee versus Prime, who wins and why?

And going by movie feats, BB has similar fighting skills to Prime, mind you, fighting skill, not overall power.

Prime, he's larger, more powerful, more durable, and has weapons many, many times more powerful.

Originally posted by Robtard
And going by movie feats, BB has similar fighting skills to Prime, mind you, fighting skill, not overall power.

Prime, he's larger, more powerful, more durable, and has weapons many, many times more powerful. And the fact that SS was made for fighting, designed for battle, means nothing to you? To me, that means he has uber durability.

SS having equal skill to Prime means BB would never touch him, SS would be too fast, he would get in close and slice BB to pieces.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And the fact that SS was made for fighting, designed for battle, means nothing to you? To me, that means he has uber durability.

SS having equal skill to Prime means BB would never touch him, SS would be too fast, he would get in close and slice BB to pieces.

It could also mean SS is just skilled, like your wiki article says. You know who has uber durability; that we do see? BB, ****er kept fighting even after his legs were blown off. That's a ****ing champ, son.

Did you purposely ignore that we actually see BB fighting and his fighting skill is on par with Prime's? Like I said pages ago, he's like a mini-Prime, has the skill; lacks the size/power.

Originally posted by Robtard
It could also mean SS is just skilled, like your wiki article says. You know who has uber durability; that we do see? BB, ****er kept fighting even after his legs were blown off. That's a ****ing champ, son.

Did you purposely ignore that we actually see BB fighting and his fighting skill is on par with Prime's? Like I said pages ago, he's like a mini-Prime, has the skill, lacks the size/power. BB was down and out, if it hadn't been for the chick, he wouldn't have done shit. Even a cripple can fire a gun, and that's all he really did. Hell, it took everything he had to crawl over to Sam. Fail.

And like the article says, SS has Primelike skills, skills that BB does not possess. You saying BB has Primelike skills is pure speculation.

Dude, give it up, like I told you on page 3 when you brought out the wiki article, "movie-feats count first and foremost". So going by movie-feats, BB stomps SS.

I've entertained you anyways and have still showed you how BB beats SS, even with your wiki-crutch.

Did you watch TF1 & and especially TF2? BB's fighting skill in similar to OPtimus', he just lacks the size/power. His fighting scene in the desert showed similar fighting skills to Prime's in the forest. Prime is just many times more powerful.

Truth be told, BB wasa bit more versatile than Prime, as he used punches, kicks, knees, tosses and weapons all in one dizzying combo.

When was BB shown pwning a bot with his guns, someone who has the speed and mobility that SS has?

Also, if SS gets in close, his blades will likely tear BB apart, just as they did Sideways. Just like Megatrons tore through Prime, just like Primes tore through that Decepticon in TF1.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
When was BB shown pwning a bot with his guns, someone who has the speed and mobility that SS has?

Also, if SS gets in close, his blades will likely tear BB apart, just as they did Sideways. Just like Megatrons tore through Prime, just like Primes tore through that Decepticon in TF1.

LoL. When has SS fought a bot with BB's fighting skills and power? Answer: Never, he killed one Decep that was running away.

Blades would damage BB, for sure; there's nothing shown that proves they would cut through BB as they did a running away SW. We've covered this, SS stabbed the blade into the ground and SW ran into it, using his own momentum as the driving force. BB won't be running/driving away in this fight.

Prime's blade is energy-based, SS's is metal. Apples to oranges, dude.

SS's swords are Cybertitanium swords, Prime's are Energon blades, yes, that's common knowledge. But which is stronger? And why did Sideways glow orange as SS bisected him?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
SS's swords are Cybertitanium swords, Prime's are Energon blades, yes, that's common knowledge. But which is stronger? And why did Sideways glow orange as SS bisected him?

I'd guess Prime's energy blades are more efficient at cutting.

Most likely friction.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You're funny, Rob. You acknowledge the info in the wiki post, you admitted this. The info states SS has fighting skill equal to Prime.

Let's try this another way....Bumblebee versus Prime, who wins and why?

Yes, the rules say you can use wiki to SUPPORT an argument and proposal, not BE the proposal.

This thread is solved easily:

Has Sideswipe demonstrated ANY of what that site says, in the movies? The clear and inarguable answer is; no.

Has Bumblebee demonstated any fighting skill and ability in the movies? Yes.

Your wiki sources do not SUPPORT anything, they ARE being used as your argument.

"It says it there, so it's true.". It doesn't help you.

If you know for a fact that it is NOT shown in the movies, then YOU know that this debate is over.

Sideswipe has not shown anywhere near the ability Bumblebee has. Fact.

Undeniable fact.

Until you provide footage of Sideswipe pulling off equal or surpassing feats to Bumblebee, he is the one with the winning stake.

That's logic and that's fact. Why do you always do this?

Why do you persist in trying to get everything else involved? There is no need to say "Let's try this another way.", and then involve another character. It's a simple argument:

Has Sideswipe got what it takes to beat Bumblebee based on movie feats? No. End. It doesn't matter what the sites say, because it hasn't happened.

Wiki is allowed as a support, not a source of argument. If it's not in the movie, it's not eligible. Do I need to get this clarified by a mod, again, like I always do? Can you not just concede that you're wrong? Is it that monumental of a task?

-AC

Originally posted by Robtard
I'd guess Prime's energy blades are more efficient at cutting.

Most likely friction. Exactly, you guess. No way of proving which is stronger, both bades cut through bots with ease.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Exactly, you guess. No way of proving which is stronger, both bades cut through bots with ease.

Has Sideswipe done anything in the movie that the wiki states?

No.

Has Bumblebee shown more? Yes. Took two out at once.

He wins until Sideswipe's footage is discovered.

It's not rocket science.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Exactly, you guess. No way of proving which is stronger, both bades cut through bots with ease.

Damn, dude. Use logic. SS didn't swing the blade and it cut SW in half. He placed it into the ground and SW drove into it as high speeds, logic dictates that the cut was had as it was because of the momentum.

It's clear the dude just has a crush on Sideswipe, sig and all.

Sideswipe, Swagger etc.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It's not a loaded question, it's a valid question. He cleaved a Decepticon in two, dude, the fact that Sideways was fleeing is a moot point. His blades can do that to Sideways, they can do it to Bee.

Whether he can or not doesn't prove whether he would.

There's literally nothing to suggest he would. You've seen nothing of his one-on-one combat skills.

It's never been on screen, so stop using Wiki as an escape.

-AC

RJ,

No, the way the kill happened is exactly the point. If BB is running away and runs into the blade as SW did, sure. Other than that, there's nothing to suggest that SS can cut BB or any other bot in half at any time.

Originally posted by Robtard
Damn, dude. Use logic. SS didn't swing the blade and it cut SW in half. He placed it into the ground and SW drove into it as high speeds, logic dictates that the cut was had as it was because of the momentum. Um, no. He launched the blade into the hood while in midair, landed, reattached hss blade, and cut Sideways in two. The blade was never jammed in the ground, it was all Sideways and brute strength.

The rules state movie feats only.

So Bumblebee wins.

-AC

Originally posted by Robtard
RJ,

No, the way the kill happened is exactly the point. If BB is running away and runs into the blade as SW did, sure. Other than that, there's nothing to suggest that SS can cut BB or any other bot in half at any time. Sideways is an Autobot, you do realize that, right? They are all ass kickers, they are all well trained in combat. You make it sound like Sideswipe kills only fleeing messengers.

He does in the movie.

Movie feats only, Bumblebee wins. End of thread.

Sideways is a Decepticon. They say so in the movie.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Um, no. He launched the blade into the hood while in midair, landed, reattached hss blade, and cut Sideways in two. The blade was never jammed in the ground, it was all Sideways and brute strength.

No. Ground used as anchor + SW's momentum driving into sword = cut

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9733/sideswipe.gif

Edit: It's a kick-ass scene, I'll give you that. But it's nothing compared to the way BB destroys the bulldozer and cat.

You should watch Revenge of the Fallen, RJ.

It's a decent flick.

-AC

Originally posted by Robtard
No. Ground used as anchor + SW's momentum driving into it = cut

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9733/sideswipe.gif I just watched the scene, the blade was never "jammed" into the ground as an anchor, man. The tip of the blade scrapes the ground, that's all.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You should watch Revenge of the Fallen, RJ.

It's a decent flick.

-AC

I have yet to see it.

I heard that it sucked. That, and it was "racially insensitive".

RJ hasn't seen it either, apparantly.

Bumblebee wins, he has the superior on-screen feats. When is the concession of defeat going to come, RJ? You acted all cockily about Sideswipe being the victor, now we know he's not.

When's the concession?

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I just watched the scene, the blade was never "jammed" into the ground as an anchor, man. The tip of the blade scrapes the ground, that's all.

Watch it again. SS makes a dead-stop and his arm doesn't move. SW's momentum is the driving force. Just stop.

Originally posted by Robtard
Watch it again. SS makes a dead-stop and his arm doesn't move. SW's momentum is the driving force. Just stop. Yeah, he makes a dead stop, holds the blade in place with brute strength as it cuts through Sideways. If SS was not strong enough, he would have lost his grip on the blade and Sideways would have driven on with a blade in his hood.