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For this fight, Zoom can fly. Gladiator is in a good mood. No confidence problems.


Kill or be killed.

Wow! Team 2 8/10

Team 2 7/10

1

team 2 10/10

Zoom > Glad
Ring Mongul > SS

Originally posted by Slaanesh
team 2 10/10

Zoom > Glad
Ring Mongul > SS you are ok on the first one but on the second one?OH BOY....

Team 1

Both men on team two are going to have a hell of a time with Zoom. Mongul is pretty formidable himself, and i could see him taking down Gladiator.

Team 2, i guess, but not by a whole lot.

Team 2 because of Zoom

Originally posted by nicamarvin
you are ok on the first one but on the second one?OH BOY....

why??Mongul take on saveral GL without much trouble..he step on Sinestro head like Sinestro was shit..i don't think SS can do that kinda thing..

Originally posted by -Pr-
Both men on team two are going to have a hell of a time with Zoom. Mongul is pretty formidable himself, and i could see him taking down Gladiator.

Team 2, i guess, but not by a whole lot. As long as you meant that both men on team one are going to have a tough time with Zoom... than

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
As long as you meant that both men on team one are going to have a tough time with Zoom... than

yeah, dunno what i was thinking.

Team 2.

team 2 zoom should not be allowed in forum battles....

Originally posted by Warlord
team 2 zoom should not be allowed in forum battles.... Ya while we are at it we might as well ban all the other high end comic book characters.

Originally posted by kgkg
Ya while we are at it we might as well ban all the other high end comic book characters.
He has a point though.
Zoom controls his own timeline which isn't connected to the DC main timeline. Because of this, he can choose to move much faster because of how fast he choose to timeline to move. He can hit as hard as Superman, and nobody can really move faster then him, just as fast as him. Heck, it took a guy to be able to be stuck in the second to beat him, even then it was hard. Stopping time wont work, and he can hit harder then Superman.

Going by that, SS, and Gladiator both are slower then him, and he can speedblitz them to eternity

might be a dumb question, but how does Zoom fight flying heralds?

Originally posted by Starscream M
might be a dumb question, but how does Zoom fight flying heralds? By not letting them fly

Originally posted by Starscream M
might be a dumb question, but how does Zoom fight flying heralds?
He was allowed to fly per the OP. though he isnt undefeatable as some are suggesting. Zoom cant instantly KO SS before he sets up a forcefield and when SS does, there isnt much hope for zoom after that.

Originally posted by Naija boy
He was allowed to fly per the OP. so the OP just made up some power to accomodate Zoom?

We don't know how Zoom will even adjust to sudden capability of flight...to assume anything is not worth bothering.

Team 1.

Originally posted by Starscream M
so the OP just made up some power to accomodate Zoom?

We don't know how Zoom will even adjust to sudden capability of flight...to assume anything is not worth bothering.

Team 1.
The Flash Ran in Space on nothing. Why can't zoom? And Flash adjusted Rather easily.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
The Flash Ran in Space on nothing. Why can't zoom? And Flash adjusted Rather easily.
My guess is that, he doesn't really run fast. it's time

Originally posted by xJLxKing
My guess is that, he doesn't really run fast. it's time

Yep, he aint no normal speedsters, if he was T2 gets shit canned.

Im just curious if SS can match Zoom's time and simply punch his face in. Cuz he is just a normal (i mean insanse *******) in his own time stream right?

Anyway Zoom could win it if SS does not do something clever.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Yep, he aint no normal speedsters, if he was T2 gets shit canned.

Im just curious if SS can match Zoom's time and simply punch his face in. Cuz he is just a normal (i mean insanse *******) in his own time stream right?

Anyway Zoom could win it if SS does not do something clever.
SS can't match it. Why? Because Zoom's timeline is ALWAYS ahead of the main timeline. SS would have to be able to affect the timeline is an incredible way to even have a chance

Originally posted by xJLxKing
SS can't match it. Why? Because Zoom's timeline is ALWAYS ahead of the main timeline. SS would have to be able to affect the timeline is an incredible way to even have a chance

I confident taht SS can time travel at will. Could be wrong, but if he can SS can travel to his current time and pawn him. If you set your self a minute or whatever ahead of other people okay your always going to be faster (according to crazy comic book logic). One would only have to travel 1 minute ahead where he would not be a threat.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I confident taht SS can time travel at will. Could be wrong, but if he can SS can travel to his current time and pawn him. If you set your self a minute or whatever ahead of other people okay your always going to be faster (according to crazy comic book logic). One would only have to travel 1 minute ahead where he would not be a threat.
No no no! Zoom is not ahead in of the Main time line but still in the same time line.
He is in another entirely different timeline that is always ahead of the Main Time that characters like Superman, Flash, and everyone else lives in.

So you can go as fast as you want, but he can manipulate his timeline to be faster then yours so there is nothing you can do. SS would really have to be as fast a Wally was to have a chance, and that ain't happening. Not to mention, Zoom has like totally control over power using speed. A snap of his finger destroyed all the glasses in an entire city, and he punch harder then Superman. You should see the scan of him punchings Power girl.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
No no no! Zoom is not ahead in of the Main time line but still in the same time line.
He is in another entirely different timeline that is always ahead of the Main Time that characters like Superman, Flash, and everyone else lives in.

So you can go as fast as you want, but he can manipulate his timeline to be faster then yours so there is nothing you can do. SS would really have to be as fast a Wally was to have a chance, and that ain't happening. Not to mention, Zoom has like totally control over power using speed. A snap of his finger destroyed all the glasses in an entire city, and he punch harder then Superman. You should see the scan of him punchings Power girl.

SS doesnt need to physically react to Zoom. All he needs to do is mentally set up a forcefield before Zoom can knock him out. When the forcefield is up he uses an omnidirectional blast and that covers the battlefield (he is out to kill afterall). Zoom will be incinerated.

Also there isnt sufficient evidence to surmise that Zoom hits harder than superman. Wonderwomans statement is not at all enough.

Originally posted by Naija boy
SS doesnt need to physically react to Zoom. All he needs to do is mentally set up a forcefield before Zoom can knock him out. When the forcefield is up he uses an omnidirectional blast and that covers the battlefield (he is out to kill afterall). Zoom will be incinerated.

Also there isnt sufficient evidence to surmise that Zoom hits harder than superman. Wonderwomans statement is not at all enough.
Considering WW has sparred with Superman in many occasions, and even fought with in to they point where they wanted to kill each other then I don't see why It not a good enough statement.

As for SS, I doubt Zoom would even let him move before he reaches him. For god's sake, Wally was only seeing glimpses of him. It took Flash to have the power to live and move in a tick of a second to beat him. SS isn't on that level, no matter how much you love him

Originally posted by xJLxKing
No no no! Zoom is not ahead in of the Main time line but still in the same time line.
He is in another entirely different timeline that is always ahead of the Main Time that characters like Superman, Flash, and everyone else lives in.

So you can go as fast as you want, but he can manipulate his timeline to be faster then yours so there is nothing you can do. SS would really have to be as fast a Wally was to have a chance, and that ain't happening. Not to mention, Zoom has like totally control over power using speed. A snap of his finger destroyed all the glasses in an entire city, and he punch harder then Superman. You should see the scan of him punchings Power girl.
Technically that would be a bfr, a self bfr.. I mean his in a separate timeline outside the actual battle field time..

Originally posted by Ambient
Technically that would be a bfr, a self bfr.. I mean his in a separate timeline outside the actual battle field time..
He is still in the battlefield

lol.. In his own timeline, call it a diff. dimension..

Originally posted by Ambient
lol.. In his own timeline, call it a diff. dimension..
Yeah, but he is still visible on the battlefield

Hah.. You got me there..

Visible but is he really there? lol Just being picky is all..

But here's how i think Surfer could counter Zooms rather unique set of powers..

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5396951

If Zoom is allowed to leave set battle field why not Surfer and from there his always a head of Zoom, that coupled with his ftl speed and reflex... Likely he could take both..

Originally posted by Ambient
Hah.. You got me there..

Visible but is he really there? lol Just being picky is all..

But here's how i think Surfer could counter Zooms rather unique set of powers..

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5396951

If Zoom is allowed to leave set battle field why not Surfer and from there his always a head of Zoom, that coupled with his ftl speed and reflex... Likely he could take both..
that wont work, why? Flash could do that too under his own power, but he couldn't. Flash while moving SPL couldn't even see Zoom Properly. Then after he got like 3 power ups, he saw he Zoom travels in. He travel nowhere. He was so fast that time was still to him while he was moving. Get it? SOL can't do that

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Considering WW has sparred with Superman in many occasions, and even fought with in to they point where they wanted to kill each other then I don't see why It not a good enough statement.

As for SS, I doubt Zoom would even let him move before he reaches him. For god's sake, Wally was only seeing glimpses of him. It took Flash to have the power to live and move in a tick of a second to beat him. SS isn't on that level, no matter how much you love him

The statement alone cant matchup to supermans striking feats. Superman has also made similar statements about characters, such as guy gardener hitting harder than doomsday,hardest ive ever been hit etc. Juntai explained this to you awhile back.

Also What part of mentally set up forcefield did understand as meaning movement? Read the post again. I said that SS wouldnt need to physically react to him but isntead mentally set up a forcefield. SS has insane thought speed and he wont need to react to Zoom physically but rather would need to mentally set up a forcefield before being koed which is very possible. Once the forcefield is up its over for zoom.

Originally posted by Naija boy
The statement alone cant matchup to supermans striking feats. Superman has also made similar statements about characters, such as guy gardener hitting harder than doomsday,hardest ive ever been hit etc. Juntai explained this to you awhile back.

Also What part of mentally set up forcefield did understand as meaning movement? Read the post again. I said that SS wouldnt need to physically react to him but isntead mentally set up a forcefield. SS has insane thought speed and he wont need to react to Zoom physically but rather would need to mentally set up a forcefield before being koed which is very possible. Once the forcefield is up its over for zoom.
And I though I already proved to you that Though has a frequency and it travels at the speed of light, however, it doesn't matter. To Zoom, he can stop himself and kill while SS is frozen
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7814/flashv2200page09bc6.jpg

Originally posted by xJLxKing
that wont work, why? Flash could do that too under his own power, but he couldn't. Flash while moving SPL couldn't even see Zoom Properly. Then after he got like 3 power ups, he saw he Zoom travels in. He travel nowhere. He was so fast that time was still to him while he was moving. Get it? SOL can't do that
I doubt Flash could do that under his own power...

Surfer's actually standing outside of time, is able to see all time (past/present/future) as if like a slide show from beginning to end and he can calculate and choose the exact time to attack (past/present)..

Originally posted by Ambient
I doubt Flash could do that under his own power...

Surfer's actually standing outside of time, is able to see all time (past/present/future) as if like a slide show from beginning to end and he can calculate and choose the exact time to attack..
Flash didn't do it on his own power. There were a lot of speedster giving him all their speed

As for SS, why would that matter. He views hi timeline, and Zoom ain't there.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Flash didn't do it on his own power. There were a lot of speedster giving him all their speed

As for SS, why would that matter. He views hi timeline, and Zoom ain't there.
Were not talking about one timeline but all, if he exist then his there.. Speed would be irrelevant..

Originally posted by Ambient
Were not talking about one timeline but all, if he exist then his there.. Speed would be irrelevant..
Okay, that's still irrelevant. What's he gonna do in Zoom's timeline? Zoom has absolute control over his timeline. It's his! He controls how fast a second is, or how fast anything is.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Okay, that's still irrelevant. What's he gonna do in Zoom's timeline? Zoom has absolute control over his timeline. It's his! He controls how fast a second is, or how fast anything is.
I meant its irrelevant outside time..

It makes no diff. if he controls the speed it goes; first off he wouldn't know when Surfer would strike for him to control time reaction and second he still is within his timeline while Surfer is looking at him outside of time and can see every movements/adjustment he makes.. Surfer has a better plan of action while Zoom has blind plan of action..

Originally posted by Ambient
I meant its irrelevant outside time..

It makes no diff. if he controls the speed it goes; first off he wouldn't know when Surfer would strike for him to control time reaction and second he still is within his timeline while Surfer is looking at him outside of time and can see every movements/adjustment he makes.. Surfer has a better plan of action while Zoom has blind plan of action..
So basically, you are saying that SS will get out of the battle field to plan his attack? Interesting. It's against the rules, but even then, he'd need time to do that

Originally posted by xJLxKing
And I though I already proved to you that Though has a frequency and it travels at the speed of light, however, it doesn't matter. To Zoom, he can stop himself and kill while SS is frozen
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7814/flashv2200page09bc6.jpg

lol wut? thought frequency travelling at the speed of light? what are u even talking about?. Anyhow, SS has far faster thought and mental speed than a regular person so i dont know what ur even talking about (neither do u lol).

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3006/silversurfer199612206jx3.jpg
Here while travelling far far faster than light able to focus on,note the position of each of the billions and billions of stars that he passes and simulataneously use them to calculate his location. Also its notable that each of these stars appear as only a spark of light to SS and yet he is able to still perform such complex thought processes even after viewing each star for a miniscule amount of time.

He has also shown to completely comprehend a milleniums worth of information in milliseconds.

Further what is Zoom stopping himself in the timeline supposed to accomplish? Doesnt his speed come from moving ahead of the timeline? Ur strategy isnt a good one at all.

ANyhow with SS great mental speed, he will definitely be able to set up a forcefield before being koed which will be it for Zoom.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
So basically, you are saying that SS will get out of the battle field to plan his attack? Interesting. It's against the rules, but even then, he'd need time to do that
Yup kinda similar in the way Zooms powers work by moving in his own timeline outside actual time..

No time at all, he can release chronal omniblast near instantaneously city wide, its all the time he needs.. Heck for that matter it could potentially bfr Zoom..

Originally posted by Naija boy
lol wut? thought frequency travelling at the speed of light? what are u even talking about?. Anyhow, SS has far faster thought and mental speed than a regular person so i dont know what ur even talking about (neither do u lol).

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3006/silversurfer199612206jx3.jpg
Here while travelling far far faster than light able to focus on,note the position of each of the billions and billions of stars that he passes and simulataneously use them to calculate his location. Also its notable that each of these stars appear as only a spark of light to SS and yet he is able to still perform such complex thought processes even after viewing each star for a miniscule amount of time.

He has also shown to completely comprehend a milleniums worth of information in milliseconds.

Further what is Zoom stopping himself in the timeline supposed to accomplish? Doesnt his speed come from moving ahead of the timeline? Ur strategy isnt a good one at all.

ANyhow with SS great mental speed, he will definitely be able to set up a forcefield before being koed which will be it for Zoom.

I do know what I am talking about.
http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/19980428032910data_trunc_sys.shtml
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/23027
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070809212215AAWWieZ
Btw, Zoom power is time, not speed


There is still a difference. SS doesn't have the same control as Zoom.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I do know what I am talking about.
http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/19980428032910data_trunc_sys.shtml
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/23027
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070809212215AAWWieZ
Btw, Zoom power is time, not speed

Please stop with all these foolish replies. What are those links supposed to show? That the speed of human thought is 300milliseconds or? How is that relevant here? I have already shown evidence of SS greatly enhanced thought and processing speed and instead of making some form of rebuttal or reply in regards to that, u go about posting useless and irrelevant links showing the thought speed of a human being.

Further i dont know why u wont simply read the post ur replying to. If u did u would see that i mentioned that Zooms perceived "speed" is due to his moving ahead of the current timeline. Hence i know that his power is "time" not speed. I brought the point up in order to question ur nonsensical strategy of Zoom "simply stopping in the timeline and beating SS while he is frozen". Since Zooms perceived speed comes from moving ahead of the timeline, how in the world will stopping benefit him? Further i cant remember him ever stopping in his timeline and then attacking anyone while they were frozen. (why would they be frozen)?

All thought are the same, mine, yours, a tiger's, or anyone else, however the way you process them and stuff like that differs. my point still stands


Flash and Zoom were fighting where time stood still
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/10/8uv0.jpg

Originally posted by Naija boy
SS doesnt need to physically react to Zoom. All he needs to do is mentally set up a forcefield before Zoom can knock him out. When the forcefield is up he uses an omnidirectional blast and that covers the battlefield (he is out to kill afterall). Zoom will be incinerated.

Also there isnt sufficient evidence to surmise that Zoom hits harder than superman. Wonderwomans statement is not at all enough.
Wonder Woman can't lie.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
All thought are the same, mine, yours, a tiger's, or anyone else, however the way you process them and stuff like that differs. my point still stands


Flash and Zoom were fighting where time stood still
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/10/8uv0.jpg

Damn thats a nice scan of flash and Zoom.

Thats some Dragonball shit.

Originally posted by carver9
Damn thats a nice scan of flash and Zoom.

Thats some Dragonball shit.
Dragonball was never there. If you believe so please bring it up in the quans blog

but yeah, very nice scan

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Dragonball was never there. If you believe so please bring it up in the quans blog

but yeah, very nice scan

What do you mean dragonball was never there?

Originally posted by carver9
What do you mean dragonball was never there?
In terms of speed, strength, and durability, Dragonball never reached the level

Originally posted by xJLxKing
In terms of speed, strength, and durability, Dragonball never reached the level

Why do you say that when you have feats of them fighting around debris and they fight so fast that the rocks thats was thrown in the air isnt even moving?

Lets not even forget the 5 minute fight that goku and frieza had that lasted for about a century.

Lets also not forget that Vegeta said "in a fight like this a minute is like a life time".

Every fight that you see is slowed down so that we can see it.

Hell in regular dbz krillin and master roshi performed a feat that would have taken a human at least an hour to do instantly.

Lets stop spamming this thread though.

By the way, durability, come on now. Strength, come on now. These are guys that bounce back up after being crushed through a mountain. These are guys that make the earth shake while fighting and destroys cities just by punching someone into it.

I had to look at Carver's post....

BRB destroyed a planet by hitting Stardust into it. I guess he's leaps above everybody then.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
All thought are the same, mine, yours, a tiger's, or anyone else, however the way you process them and stuff like that differs. my point still stands


Flash and Zoom were fighting where time stood still
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/10/8uv0.jpg

More foolishness. Apparently u dont even read ur own links. In this link (which is the only valid link you even posted)
http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/19980428032910data_trunc_sys.shtm
it is referencing cognitive speed or comprehension speed of a single volunteer in relation to different images and objects. It even talks about how his comprehension speed is faster for some objects than others. Absolutely nothing was mentioed about the uniform speed of neural impulses for humans (which is what in ur own convoluted and confused way u are referring to) which as u can see here
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DavidParizh.shtml
top out at about 119metres per second.

Further for u to mention that the speed of all thoughts including those of characters like SS and those of regular humans are the same is absolutely retarded. Heck u were the one who posted the scans of the flash in final crisis countering telepathy because his thoughts were to fast. But now u go and claim that all thoughts are the same speed.lol
I have shown feats which indicate that SS thoughts (comprehension and neural impulses) operate at a far faster rate than those of regular people (heck than those of most superpowered people as well). Either post a reasonable response to it or concede.

Further, Read the scans u posted. Flash made it into Zooms world i.e his timeline. Hence the reason he was able to fight him evenly. There was no mention that zoom had stopped moving in his timeline. This is getting ridiculous.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I had to look at Carver's post....

BRB destroyed a planet by hitting Stardust into it. I guess he's leaps above everybody then.

LOL, why Kris, why?

Originally posted by Naija boy
More foolishness. Apparently u dont even read ur own links. In this link (which is the only valid link you even posted)
http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/19980428032910data_trunc_sys.shtm
it is referencing cognitive speed or comprehension speed of a single volunteer in relation to different images and objects. It even talks about how his comprehension speed is faster for some objects than others. Absolutely nothing was mentioed about the uniform speed of neural impulses for humans (which is what in ur own convoluted and confused way u are referring to) which as u can see here
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DavidParizh.shtml
top out at about 119metres per second.

Further for u to mention that the speed of all thoughts including those of characters like SS and those of regular humans are the same is absolutely retarded. Heck u were the one who posted the scans of the flash in final crisis countering telepathy because his thoughts were to fast. But now u go and claim that all thoughts are the same speed.lol
I have shown feats which indicate that SS thoughts (comprehension and neural impulses) operate at a far faster rate than those of regular people (heck than those of most superpowered people as well). Either post a reasonable response to it or concede.

Further, Read the scans u posted. Flash made it into Zooms world i.e his timeline. Hence the reason he was able to fight him evenly. There was no mention that zoom had stopped moving in his timeline. This is getting ridiculous.
Here is quote from a guy on one of those links

"Thoughts are merely electrical impulses, so technically, they are just as fast as the speed of light. To process them is not what takes time, because the thought will be relayed at the speed of light once you think of it. But, to deductively arrive at a thought, now that takes a while. But once you're there and there's that "click," it happens instantaneous.

As evidence, we all know that it is a universally understood fact that when we think of an idea, we all have a physical lightbulb that appears out of nowhere and turn on by itself. The light bulb of course turns on at the speed of light."
& http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7704578

Any ways, it seems you never want to be wrong. Either way, I don't see how it even helps you.




Actually, he meant the speed of what Zoom was traveling. I don't understand how it would make sense for Flash to even run into his timeline when Zoom controls it. It doesn't make sense

Originally posted by carver9
Why do you say that when you have feats of them fighting around debris and they fight so fast that the rocks thats was thrown in the air isnt even moving?

Lets not even forget the 5 minute fight that goku and frieza had that lasted for about a century.

Lets also not forget that Vegeta said "in a fight like this a minute is like a life time".

Every fight that you see is slowed down so that we can see it.

Hell in regular dbz krillin and master roshi performed a feat that would have taken a human at least an hour to do instantly.

Lets stop spamming this thread though.

By the way, durability, come on now. Strength, come on now. These are guys that bounce back up after being crushed through a mountain. These are guys that make the earth shake while fighting and destroys cities just by punching someone into it.
I told you, go post in the quan's blog ( ) and I'll be glad to prove you wrong

Originally posted by xJLxKing
There is still a difference. SS doesn't have the same control as Zoom.
Yes, Surfer's a lot better; exist outside of time, affect all time (past/present/future). He can also accessed it through diff. means; speed or chronal energy manipulation.. Zoom's basically control forward time motion, heck he cant even control the effect its causing on time..

Without question SS is better..

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I told you, go post in the quan's blog ( ) and I'll be glad to prove you wrong

What is quan's blog

Originally posted by carver9
What is quan's blog http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t362941.html


Who has better control Odin or SS?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t362941.html


Who has better control Odin or SS?
Odin.... For reason above and on a wide scale...

Originally posted by xJLxKing
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t362941.html


Who has better control Odin or SS?

There you go, I sent my remark.

Originally posted by Ambient
Odin.... For reason above and on a wide scale...
Why would you say that? Because he has greater control, right?
Well, same goes for Zoom, he has control over his timeline more then anyone because he is the Omega, and he is the Alpha in that timeline

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Why would you say that? Because he has greater control, right?
Well, same goes for Zoom, he has control over his timeline more then anyone because he is the Omega, and he is the Alpha in that timeline
Right but thats very diff. to just being able to run a head of time, albeit he can control it by going fast or slow. While this other you've compared with can affect all time, exist and watch time unfolding.. Big diff...

Anyhow got to get going..

Originally posted by Ambient
Right but thats very diff. to just being able to run a head of time, albeit he can control it by going fast or slow. While this other you've compared with can affect all time, exist and watch time unfolding.. Big diff...

Anyhow got to get going..
I understand what you are saying, but their powers will not affect Zoom's ability. He is the omega, and the alpha in his timeline.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Here is quote from a guy on one of those links

"Thoughts are merely electrical impulses, so technically, they are just as fast as the speed of light. To process them is not what takes time, because the thought will be relayed at the speed of light once you think of it. But, to deductively arrive at a thought, now that takes a while. But once you're there and there's that "click," it happens instantaneous.

As evidence, we all know that it is a universally understood fact that when we think of an idea, we all have a physical lightbulb that appears out of nowhere and turn on by itself. The light bulb of course turns on at the speed of light."
& http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7704578

Any ways, it seems you never want to be wrong. Either way, I don't see how it even helps you.




Actually, he meant the speed of what Zoom was traveling. I don't understand how it would make sense for Flash to even run into his timeline when Zoom controls it. It doesn't make sense

*Sigh. Thinking (in we regular humans) is an "electrochemical" process and hence cannot be faster than light. Thoughts operate by neurons interacting with ur brain. neurons have to put in in positive Sodium ions and put out negative potassium http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_potential#Neurotransmission
or the summary here but which is based off the info in the above link
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080910105655AALjkua

As u will see, the top speed in which these impulses are transmitted is about 119/120 metres per second. which i already showed you in this link which was the first one i posted. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DavidParizh.shtml

And lol i dont think anybody wants to be wrong. That doesnt change the fact that you are wrong. Therefore instead of going on about nonsense try to actually address some of the points being made.

Whats funny is that this is ultimately irrelevant. Even if we go by ur erroneous claims regarding the actual speed of thought, then it would still be retarded to say that the speed of thought in humans is the same as those of characters like SS,flash,superman etc. Unless u believe that human beings can mentally track actual lightspeed electrical signals,comprehend milleniums worth of info in milliseconds, perform calculations involving billions of variables in seconds etc. In other words, you have no case regardless of what we take the speed of thought to be.
I once again urge to try to competently counter something in my argument for surfer winning or just concede.



I didnt phrase that correctly intially.What i meant to say was that flash got to a level of speed in which was equal to the level of "perceived speed" that Zoom operating ahead of the current timeline gave him and hence could fight him evenly. This directly contradicts ur belief that no matter how fast u are u wont be aas fast as Zoom. Further, they werent frozen in time. Flash even mentions that he and Zoom have been fighting for less than a second, which indicates that time is passing since the "second" is used as a frame of reference. All he means is that time is passing very slowly while they are operating at that level of speed.

Here is where you are wrong
Flash was still slower
Zoom can still go faster
That was easy

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Here is where you are wrong
Flash was still slower
Zoom can still go faster


Flash was on a relatively equal level even if minimally slower. Thats the point genius.

Now ur just going into the no limits fallacy. U want us to assume that zoom can just keep increasing his "perceived speeds" infinitely to levels beyond what was displayed on panel. Sorry but get such fallacious logic out of here. lol, Thats like me assuming that surfer can just amp his stats infinitely as well. Utter nonsense



Yup pointing out idiotic fallacies is no problem for me.

team 2 ftw.

zoom > surfer.
mongul > gladiator.

imo.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I understand what you are saying, but their powers will not affect Zoom's ability. He is the omega, and the alpha in his timeline.
Didn't help him against Flash.. Also im not saying Surfer would manipulate Zooms timeline and make it enert but rather play it smart, fight a similar way, a far better way like the scan i showed then he could proceed to attack..

Originally posted by Galan007
team 2 ftw.

zoom < surfer.
mongul > gladiator. Slight margin

imo.
....

Originally posted by Ambient

.... speed-wise, zoom >> wally + he can strike with superman-esque punches + he exists in a timeline completely divergent from 'mainstream' time

so unless surfer can manipulate timelines separate from the one he's in, there's no feasible way he could ever be on zoom's level.

^movement speedwise he cant be on his level. thats about it.

^ far superior speed and superman level punches are all zoom would need, imho.

^Well imo, SS mental speed (which is greater than his already high movement speed) and forcefields together with Zooms comparatively low durability will be enough to get SS the win.

zoom exists in a time bubble completely separate, and most importantly, ahead of, the normal timeline.

that said, surfer would quite literally have to be able to think much faster than time itself moves just to be able to think on zoom's speed level

...and even if surfer is capable of thinking THAT fast, he still has to react THAT fast - and as far as i've seen, surfer doesn't have reaction speed >> wally

Originally posted by Galan007
zoom exists in a time bubble completely separate, and most importantly, ahead of, the normal timeline.

that said, surfer would quite literally have to be able to think much faster than time itself moves just to be able to think on zoom's speed level

...and even if surfer is capable of thinking THAT fast, he still has to react THAT fast - and as far as i've seen, surfer doesn't have reaction speed >> wally
I said that already, but apparently it matters not

Originally posted by Galan007
zoom exists in a time bubble completely separate, and most importantly, ahead of, the normal timeline.

that said, surfer would quite literally have to be able to think much faster than time itself moves just to be able to think on zoom's speed level

...and even if surfer is capable of thinking THAT fast, he still has to react THAT fast - and as far as i've seen, surfer doesn't have reaction speed >> wally

He doesnt have to think on zooms level of speed, all he has to do is think fast enough to set up a forcefield before being koed. Thats what i think he can do.

Wallys perceptions while they are sped up are still regular so since Zoom was too fast for him to even see their was no way he would have been able to react to physically him. Surfer on the other hand not only has sped up perceptions but also greatly enhanced perceptions. And im not even talking about his vision (which is greatly enhanced as well). Surfers cosmic senses have alerted him to even the materialization of subatomic particles. Hence he already has the advantage over wally that he wouldnt need to actually see Zoom. Then I believe he would be able to mentally set up a forcefield (which is a much faster method of defence than physical reaction) before Zoom is able to ko him.

Once that is done, omni directional blast across battlefield which takes out Zoom.

Originally posted by Naija boy
He doesnt have to think on zooms level of speed, all he has to do is think fast enough to set up a forcefield before being koed. Thats what i think he can do.

Wallys perceptions while they are sped up are still regular so since Zoom was too fast for him to even see their was no way he would have been able to react to physically him. Surfer on the other hand not only has sped up perceptions but also greatly enhanced perceptions. And im not even talking about his vision (which is greatly enhanced as well). Surfers cosmic senses have alerted him to even the materialization of subatomic particles. Hence he already has the advantage over wally that he wouldnt need to actually see Zoom. Then I believe he would be able to mentally set up a forcefield (which is a much faster method of defence than physical reaction) before Zoom is able to ko him.

Once that is done, omni directional blast across battlefield which takes out Zoom. Since when does Wally have regular Perception? how can he move so fast that he beats teleporting and have regular perception?

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Since when does Wally have regular Perception? how can he move so fast that he beats teleporting and have regular perception?

By regular i mean he has normal eyesight (no xray vision, infrared vision etc), sense of smell,hearing etc.

However his perception is sped up and thats why he can react and perceive thing while moving at such high speeds.

Originally posted by Naija boy
He doesnt have to think on zooms level of speed, all he has to do is think fast enough to set up a forcefield before being koed. Thats what i think he can do.

Wallys perceptions while they are sped up are still regular so since Zoom was too fast for him to even see their was no way he would have been able to react to physically him. Surfer on the other hand not only has sped up perceptions but also greatly enhanced perceptions. And im not even talking about his vision (which is greatly enhanced as well). Surfers cosmic senses have alerted him to even the materialization of subatomic particles. Hence he already has the advantage over wally that he wouldnt need to actually see Zoom. Then I believe he would be able to mentally set up a forcefield (which is a much faster method of defence than physical reaction) before Zoom is able to ko him.

Once that is done, omni directional blast across battlefield which takes out Zoom. the SF greatly enhances wally's perceptions - they are far from 'regular'. however, even when wally was amped with the powers of bart and jay, he still could barely perceive zoom as a blur. do you realize how absurdly fast zoom is?

regardless, if you truly think surfer is > than an amped wally, then that's your opinion and you are welcome to it - but there would be no point in a continued debate either.

furthermore, i think you're somewhat missing my point where zoom being ahead of normal time is concerned. i mean, if zoom exists ahead of the timeline surfer is in, there is no possible way surfer could compensate with his abilities, because they all operate within the normal timestream

Originally posted by Galan007
the SF greatly enhances wally's perceptions - they are far from 'regular'. however, even when wally was amped with the powers of bart and jay, he still could barely perceive zoom as a blur. do you realize how absurdly fast zoom is?

regardless, if you truly think surfer is > than an amped wally, then that's your opinion and you are welcome to it - but there would be no point in a continued debate either.

furthermore, i think you're somewhat missing my point where zoom being ahead of normal time is concerned. i mean, if zoom exists ahead of the timeline surfer is in, there is no possible way surfer could compensate with his abilities, because they all operate within the normal timestream

By "regular" im sure u know i didnt mean equivalent to that of a human as i know his are much faster. I was referring to the basic means of perception (i.e vision) being the same. Now i know how fast Zoom is but given surfers mental processing and perception speed its within reason for him to be able to set up a forcefield before he gets koed. As i mentioned he doesnt need to actually see Zoom because of his cosmic perceptions and he will be mentally reacting to him rather than physically. These are two advantages wally didnt have. Moreover his extremely high durability also makes it that it will take a longer time to ko him which gives him more time to throw up the forcefield.

Also in regards to the actual speed of surfers perception/mental ability, In the scan i showed to indicate surfers perceptions, He was so fast that billions and billions of stars were racing past him. Considering that stars are usually light years apart. Surfer was going in far excess of billions of times the speed of light. He was able to perceive each and every one of these stars, note their positions and then use those positions to calculate his position in the universe. Its also notable that these stars appeared only as sparks of light to him due to his speed and so he would have viewed them only for a very miniscule amount of yet he was still able to rapidly and simultaneously perform complex mental actions based on his viewing of them. Its already an insane perception feat for him to be able to focus on each of these billions of stars at that speed (albeit for a miniscule amount of time), but its even more insane because of the complex calculations he is able to perform after such insignificant glances.

I dont think Zoom or Wally were moving anywhere near billions of time the speed of light when fighting after wally had been amped with jesse quicks speed (wally could fully perceive him when amped to that level of speed). The best calculations ive seen put them at 20,000 times light speed and surfer has shown to perceive things in excess of such speeds.

Now in regards to Zoom operating ahead of the timestream, his fight with wally actually showed that given enough speed (whether perception or movement,) Zooms abilities could be nearly matched.Note that as wally became faster, he began to perceive Zoom better until he got up to the point where he could fully perceive him and react to him physically (to some extent that is)

Originally posted by Naija boy
By "regular" im sure u know i didnt mean equivalent to that of a human as i know his are much faster. I was referring to the basic means of perception (i.e vision) being the same. Now i know how fast Zoom is but given surfers mental processing and perception speed its within reason for him to be able to set up a forcefield before he gets koed. As i mentioned he doesnt need to actually see Zoom because of his cosmic perceptions and he will be mentally reacting to him rather than physically. These are two advantages wally didnt have. Moreover his extremely high durability also makes it that it will take a longer time to ko him which gives him more time to throw up the forcefield.

Also in regards to the actual speed of surfers perception/mental ability, In the scan i showed to indicate surfers perceptions, He was so fast that billions and billions of stars were racing past him. Considering that stars are usually light years apart. Surfer was going in far excess of billions of times the speed of light. He was able to perceive each and every one of these stars, note their positions and then use those positions to calculate his position in the universe. Its also notable that these stars appeared only as sparks of light to him due to his speed and so he would have viewed them only for a very miniscule amount of yet he was still able to rapidly and simultaneously perform complex mental actions based on his viewing of them. Its already an insane perception feat for him to be able to focus on each of these billions of stars at that speed (albeit for a miniscule amount of time), but its even more insane because of the complex calculations he is able to perform after such insignificant glances.

I dont think Zoom or Wally were moving anywhere near billions of time the speed of light when fighting after wally had been amped with jesse quicks speed (wally could fully perceive him when amped to that level of speed). The best calculations ive seen put them at 20,000 times light speed and surfer has shown to perceive things in excess of such speeds.

Now in regards to Zoom operating ahead of the timestream, his fight with wally actually showed that given enough speed (whether perception or movement,) Zooms abilities could be nearly matched.Note that as wally became faster, he began to perceive Zoom better until he got up to the point where he could fully perceive him and react to him physically (to some extent that is)
Um, Wally has moved faster than instantaneous travel and beaten death which is literally everywhere at once. So yeah, He and Zoom were traveling far far faster than 20k light. How in the heck did you even come up with that? Anyone who reads flash knows that he's moved Super luminal on his own before which is so fast that not even Superman could keep up. And Superman has flown from Vega to earth in under a minute.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Um, Wally has moved faster than instantaneous travel and beaten death which is literally everywhere at once. So yeah, He and Zoom were traveling far far faster than 20k light. How in the heck did you even come up with that? Anyone who reads flash knows that he's moved Super luminal on his own before which is so fast that not even Superman could keep up. And Superman has flown from Vega to earth in under a minute.
From what I understand Wally didn't beat the teleportation, he beat the "thought" that would have activated the teleportation(pretty sure Galan said something to that effect). And Surfer's speed has also proved to be too much for Death(in the form of Deathurge).

Originally posted by darthgoober
From what I understand Wally didn't beat the teleportation, he beat the "thought" that would have activated the teleportation(pretty sure Galan said something to that effect). And Surfer's speed has also proved to be too much for Death(in the form of Deathurge). Even Still, Wally has moved so fast that Superman was literally a statue. Superman couldn't even help him fight zoom. Superman has flown from Vega to Earth. That is literally billions of times faster than light. So someone saying Zoom and Wally fought at 20k light just doesn't make sense to me.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Even Still, Wally has moved so fast that Superman was literally a statue. Superman couldn't even help him fight zoom. Superman has flown from Vega to Earth. That is literally billions of times faster than light. So someone saying Zoom and Wally fought at 20k light just doesn't make sense to me.
Hasn't both Supes's and WW's speed proved to be enough to tag Zoom on other occasions though?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hasn't both Supes's and WW's speed proved to be enough to tag Zoom on other occasions though?
Zoom only fights heroes to teach them something. He fought Wally at those crazy speeds to push wally harder. He wasn't going to fight Superman and Wonder Woman that fast when that won't teach them anything. Neither can push themselves that fast.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Zoom only fights heroes to teach them something. He fought Wally at those crazy speeds to push wally harder. He wasn't going to fight Superman and Wonder Woman that fast when that won't teach them anything. Neither can push themselves that fast.
So you're basing his speed on one showing against Flash?

Originally posted by darthgoober
So you're basing his speed on one showing against Flash?
I'm basing it on all the showings of the flash thru out his career and the other speedsters that he had to tap, and the fact that it still wasn't enough.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I'm basing it on all the showings of the flash thru out his career and the other speedsters that he had to tap, and the fact that it still wasn't enough.
In one showing right? Does Zoom have any other instances of his speed being anywhere near that level or is that the only one?

Originally posted by darthgoober
In one showing right? Does Zoom have any other instances of his speed being anywhere near that level or is that the only one? Does Surfer have any other showings of beating two galactus level beings or is it just that one?

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Does Surfer have any other showings of beating two galactus level beings or is it just that one?
Just the one, that's why a thread featuring "Surfer vs *insert two Galactus level beings*" would be closed for spite. Would YOU give Surfer a forum win over two G level guys based on that one instance? If you're making a comparison between the two it doesn't really seem right to support one stance and not the other.

And you still haven't answered the question, is that the only showing where Zoom shows that level of speed?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Just the one, that's why a thread featuring "Surfer vs *insert two Galactus level beings*" would be closed for spite. Would YOU give Surfer a forum win over two G level guys based on that one instance?

And you still haven't answered the question, is that the only showing where Zoom shows that level of speed? Anyone with common comics experience knows that you have to look at villains diff than Heroes. They are made to eventually lose. That is why someone like Thanos who is smarter and more powerful than everyone always phucks up his power. You also gotta realize Vills have less appearances than Heroes. So you gotta use the heroe's feats to back up the villian. When doomsday killed Superman, we knew he was crazy powerful even with that one appearance. just because of who superman was. so now, i know Zoom is faster than 20k light becuz wally has traveled faster than that and he still wasn't fast enough. To answer your question. Also Zoom always fights to just the level above who he is fighting to better them. what is the point of arguing comics if we don't take into account the motives and M.O. of the characters? geesh. We all know surfer can turn anyone he fights into stone but he doesn't because it is not his M.O.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Anyone with common comics experience knows that you have to look at villains diff than Heroes. They are made to eventually lose. That is why someone like Thanos who is smarter and more powerful than everyone always phucks up his power. You also gotta realize Vills have less appearances than Heroes. So you gotta use the heroe's feats to back up the villian. When doomsday killed Superman, we knew he was crazy powerful even with that one appearance. just because of who superman was. so now, i know Zoom is faster than 20k light becuz wally has traveled faster than that and he still wasn't fast enough. To answer your question. Also Zoom always fights to just the level above who he is fighting to better them. what is the point of arguing comics if we don't take into account the motives and M.O. of the characters? geesh. We all know surfer can turn anyone he fights into stone but he doesn't because it is not his M.O.
You're still not answering the question. What I'm asking is, does Zoom have any other instances of him possessing that level of speed? If so, what are they?

Originally posted by Naija boy
Also in regards to the actual speed of surfers perception/mental ability, In the scan i showed to indicate surfers perceptions, He was so fast that billions and billions of stars were racing past him. Considering that stars are usually light years apart. Surfer was going in far excess of billions of times the speed of light. He was able to perceive each and every one of these stars, note their positions and then use those positions to calculate his position in the universe.

I dont think Zoom or Wally were moving anywhere near billions of time the speed of light when fighting after wally had been amped with jesse quicks speed (wally could fully perceive him when amped to that level of speed). The best calculations ive seen put them at 20,000 times light speed and surfer has shown to perceive things in excess of such speeds.

Now in regards to Zoom operating ahead of the timestream, his fight with wally actually showed that given enough speed (whether perception or movement,) Zooms abilities could be nearly matched.Note that as wally became faster, he began to perceive Zoom better until he got up to the point where he could fully perceive him and react to him physically (to some extent that is) you're relating travel speed to battle speed - they are completely different. so the 'billions of times the speed of light' argument isn't really applicable unless you're using it solely to describe surfer's perception abilities... and even then, my former argument pertaining to zoom being ahead of the normal timeline, thus will always be faster, still applies.

wally was able to perceive zoom because he had become so fast that time literally did not apply to him. yet even then it was a very good fight. however, zoom has shown the ability to control his personal time bubble with a good amount of precision

regardless, my opinion on the matter has been stated, so there's really no point in circling around again. no offense to you, of course... our discussions are always respectful and pleasant.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You're still not answering the question. What I'm asking is, does Zoom have any other instances of him possessing that level of speed? If so, what are they?
Does Superman have any other instances of holding the weight of infinity in his hand? What you are asking is silly. It's Zoom's high end feat because he had to fight that hard to get Wally to get better. he doesn't even need to be anywhere near that fast to be faster than Surfer can react to.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Does Superman have any other instances of holding the weight of infinity in his hand? What you are asking is silly. It's Zoom's high end feat because he had to fight that hard to get Wally to get better. he doesn't even need to be anywhere near that fast to be faster than Surfer can react to.
Nope, and if you started a thread asking if Supes could lift an infinite amount of weight everyone with a brain would say no.

Spidey's high end includes trouncing Firelord, do you accept that one high end showing as the accurate depiction of his abilities or do you look at his other showings and try to find a more reasonable average?

Also, you seem to be having a lot of difficulty giving a strait answer to a fairly simple question...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Nope, and if you started a thread asking if Supes could lift an infinite amount of weight everyone with a brain would say no. ultraman did...

Originally posted by Galan007
ultraman did...
So has Thor... once.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Nope, and if you started a thread asking if Supes could lift an infinite amount of weight everyone with a brain would say no.

Spidey's high end includes trouncing Firelord, do you accept that one high end showing as the accurate depiction of his abilities or do you look at his other showings and try to find a more reasonable average?

Also, you seem to be having a lot of difficulty giving a strait answer to a fairly simple question...
Spiderman did not beat Firelord in the conventional sense. He didn't fight him straight up. Plus Zoom doesn't run fast. He controls time. To what ever degree he wants. use some common sense.

the ultraman instance was pretty recent. he lifted a book with infinite pages, all by his lonesome.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Spiderman did not beat Firelord in the conventional sense. He didn't fight him straight up. Plus Zoom doesn't run fast. He controls time. To what ever degree he wants. use some common sense.
Their fight was pretty straitforward, and Spidey KO'd him by bouncing around and punching him. So is that the way you see Spiderman in threads, or do you look for a more reasonable average?

And you're still dodging the question.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Their fight was pretty straitforward, and Spidey KO'd him by bouncing around and punching him. So is that the way you see Spiderman in threads, or do you look for a more reasonable average?

And you're still dodging the question.
Or I think Firelord doesn't have high resistance to physical Dmg. Only Energy Dmg. Unless there are other instances of Him being punched around. I'd like to see them. That is the more reasonable assumption.

Originally posted by Galan007
the ultraman instance was pretty recent. he lifted a book with infinite pages, all by his lonesome.
Thor's was back in the day, but he still lifted infinite weight.

^ you know the issue #? i don't think i've ever seen that one..

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Or I think Firelord doesn't have high resistance to physical Dmg. Only Energy Dmg. Unless there are other instances of Him being punched around. I'd like to see them. That is the more reasonable assumption.
He's fought toe to toe with guys like Thor and Hercules and withstood a pounding from Dumb Drax, his physical damage soak is fine.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ you know the issue #? i don't think i've ever seen that one..
Can't say as I do tbh. But if you look around the forum a bit you'll probably find the scan. I just saw it being discussed yesterday(I'm trying to remember what thread) so I'm all but positive that they're close at hand. If I find the thread again though I'll point you to it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
He's fought toe to toe with guys like Thor and Hercules and withstood a pounding from Dumb Drax, his physical damage soak is fine.
Then obviously the writer had retard mode on when he made that fight. The writer who had wally fight Zoom was one of the best flash writers in history. And I think he even made that character zoom so he would know. You guys don't take into account who's writing? Ug. How do you debate if you don't look at who's writing and the entire history of the character too?

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Then obviously the writer had retard mode on when he made that fight. The writer who had wally fight Zoom was one of the best flash writers in history. And I think he even made that character zoom so he would know. You guys don't take into account who's writing? Ug. How do you debate if you don't look at who's writing and the entire history of the character too?
So you only accept Flash/Zoom feats from that ONE writer?

Originally posted by darthgoober
So you only accept Flash/Zoom feats from that ONE writer? No. I'm accepting that the one writer who created the character would know better as to what the character can and can't do. Plus Zoom doesn't run. Anyone with comics sense knows that he controls time. He can be any speed he wants.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
No. I'm accepting that the one writer who created the character would know better as to what the character can and can't do. Plus Zoom doesn't run. Anyone with comics sense knows that he controls time. He can be any speed he wants.
So Stan Lee's take on Surfer from back in the day trumps all his newer stuff?

Also, did that particular writer ever feature Zoom going that fast ever again?

Originally posted by darthgoober
So Stan Lee's take on Surfer from back in the day trumps all his newer stuff?

Also, did that particular writer ever feature Zoom going that fast ever again? If Stan Lee were to right Surfer today then his stance would be the one to take the most into account. Also, how many times has zoom fought flash amping himself with every other speedster's power? never. Zoom only fights people enough to push them. Why can't you get that? Are you just skipping over that character fact? or do you guys just argue powers and appearances only?

Originally posted by Zeuodin
If Stan Lee were to right Surfer today then his stance would be the one to take the most into account. Also, how many times has zoom fought flash amping himself with every other speedster's power? never. Zoom only fights people enough to push them. Why can't you get that? Are you just skipping over that character fact? or do you guys just argue powers and appearances only?
So Zoom's original writer is the only one who's writing/written him? If Stan's opinion is only relevancy if he's still writing Surfer, then by your reasoning Zoom's creator only outweighs other writers if he's still the one in charge of the character.

Did the writer ever have him going that fast again or not? Did the writer ever have matching his speed without borrowing speed from others?

Johns specifically stated that he was not happy with the way other writers were portraying him. Hence why he was killed off.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Johns specifically stated that he was not happy with the way other writers were portraying him. Hence why he was killed off.
So he was Zoom's most recent writer then? He may very well be since I've fallen behind on DC, so don't think I'm trying to be accusing or anything.

Not that it really matters since his opinion still doesn't automatically trump DC's other writers. It might incidentally if he's written most of Zoom's appearances since his would be the way Zoom's normally written, but he doesn't gain seniority just because he wrote the guy first.

Originally posted by darthgoober
So he was Zoom's most recent writer then? He may very well be since I've fallen behind on DC, so don't think I'm trying to be accusing or anything.

Not that it really matters since his opinion still doesn't automatically trump DC's other writers. It might incidentally if he's written most of Zoom's appearances since his would be the way Zoom's normally written, but he doesn't gain seniority just because he wrote the guy first.

Johns was Zoom's most recent writer, he depowered him in Rogue's Revenge.

Originally posted by Galan007
you're relating travel speed to battle speed - they are completely different. so the 'billions of times the speed of light' argument isn't really applicable unless you're using it solely to describe surfer's perception abilities... and even then, my former argument pertaining to zoom being ahead of the normal timeline, thus will always be faster, still applies.

wally was able to perceive zoom because he had become so fast that time literally did not apply to him. yet even then it was a very good fight. however, zoom has shown the ability to control his personal time bubble with a good amount of precision

regardless, my opinion on the matter has been stated, so there's really no point in circling around again. no offense to you, of course... our discussions are always respectful and pleasant.



I was using it to describe solely the speed of his perceptions and thoughts. Note that i never talked about him physically reacting to zoom but rather perceiving him and mentally reacting.

also ur argument of Zoom always being faster applies for the very reason that wally was able to get closer and closer to his speed as he got more amps (first he couldnt even see him, then he could see a blur then he could fully perceive him etc). Hence that indicates that there is either a fixed level of speed in which zooms being ahead of the timestream gives him or for some reason Zoom didnt "fast forward" himself to become faster. Regardless of reason we have to use the fastest speed shown by Zoom on panel so as not to fall into the no limit fallacy. This occured in his fight with wally in which he and wally fought all over the world a dozen times in less than a second. Further wally did use "second" as a time frame so we know that time DID apply to him still. He was just fast enough to keep up with the "speed" that Zoom was availed by his personal timebubble.

We obviously wont agree on this so i will agree to disagree.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Um, Wally has moved faster than instantaneous travel and beaten death which is literally everywhere at once. So yeah, He and Zoom were traveling far far faster than 20k light. How in the heck did you even come up with that? Anyone who reads flash knows that he's moved Super luminal on his own before which is so fast that not even Superman could keep up. And Superman has flown from Vega to earth in under a minute.

The term "Instantaneous" is relative. If ur talking about Wally moving faster than teleportation than while that is impressive it has been done by others as well i.e surfer. Also what do u mean by beaten death? do u mean when he outran the blackflash? Because im not sure how u are even quantifying that feat as he was running through the timestream. Also blackflash wasnt everywhere at once.

And i said that the best estimates ive seen from other people who calculated it was 20k light speed based on flash and Zoom having covered every inch of the earth in less than second as flash claimed. Even if we were to strectch the calculation as much as we could it wouldnt be on the same level purely speedwise as the surfer feat. What u should realize is that flash is actually fighting however and so u would be hardpressed to find a bettercombat speed feat.

The "20k light speed" computation based on Wally's claim that they covered "every inch of the planet" contradicts what was shown on panel. As was shown on panel, they caused major amounts of collateral damage in each place they passed as they traveled across the planet. If it was never indicated on-panel that they caused damage that kinda damage on "every inch of the planet", then we need to chalk up what he said to character hyperbole.

Closest thing we have to what could be quantifiable there was when he stated (on the same panel) that "they circled the planet over a dozen times". In which case he was moving at no less than 1.7 times lightspeed.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
The "20k light speed" computation based on Wally's claim that they covered "every inch of the planet" contradicts what was shown on panel. As was shown on panel, they caused major amounts of collateral damage in each place they passed as they traveled across the planet. If it was never indicated on-panel that they caused damage that kinda damage on "every inch of the planet", then we need to chalk up what he said to character hyperbole.

Closest thing we have to what could be quantifiable there was when he stated (on the same panel) that "they circled the planet over a dozen times". In which case he was moving at no less than 1.7 times lightspeed.
That would be a load of baloney since Superman himself can fly far far faster than than and he was just a living statue to them.

Originally posted by kgkg
Ya while we are at it we might as well ban all the other high end comic book characters.

YEAH...LET'S.....

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
The "20k light speed" computation based on Wally's claim that they covered "every inch of the planet" contradicts what was shown on panel. As was shown on panel, they caused major amounts of collateral damage in each place they passed as they traveled across the planet. If it was never indicated on-panel that they caused damage that kinda damage on "every inch of the planet", then we need to chalk up what he said to character hyperbole.

Closest thing we have to what could be quantifiable there was when he stated (on the same panel) that "they circled the planet over a dozen times". In which case he was moving at no less than 1.7 times lightspeed.
actually, Zoom doesn't run, so he doesn't cause damage, and wally has the speed force that stop the collateral damage

Originally posted by xJLxKing
actually, Zoom doesn't run, so he doesn't cause damage, and wally has the speed force that stop the collateral damage
Zoom has shown that with his thundersnaps and claps he does cause collateral damage with his speed.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Zoom has shown that with his thundersnaps and claps he does cause collateral damage with his speed.
I am talking about just running.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
actually, Zoom doesn't run, so he doesn't cause damage, and wally has the speed force that stop the collateral damage

Except that the fight in question showed on-panel that damage was caused everywhere they went.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Except that the fight in question showed on-panel that damage was caused everywhere they went.

Because then ran through things. The Speed force prevents things like causing black holes to appear when he goes lightspeed, or Wally's legs from turning into a liquid.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ you know the issue #? i don't think i've ever seen that one..
Found where I saw it...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12312992#post12312992

^ thanks, darth.

...makes you wonder what the ground was made of, to be able to support an infinite amount of weight. lol.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ thanks, darth.

...makes you wonder what the ground was made of, to be able to support an infinite amount of weight. lol.
I was thinking the same thing. Like why didn't the planet fold on itself when the center of gravity changed into infinity. A black hole should have been created.

Obviously wasn't infinite gravity.... yet.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ thanks, darth.

...makes you wonder what the ground was made of, to be able to support an infinite amount of weight. lol.
Hey maybe they were standing on the same type of soil that supported Herc when he held up the Heavens


BTW do you still have that smile that's rolling a joint and turns into a pot leaf?

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I was thinking the same thing. Like why didn't the planet fold on itself when the center of gravity changed into infinity. A black hole should have been created.
Details like that were never really taken into consideration during that period(art looks like the 70's). I mean that was the same period that featured Pre-Crisis Supes using "super math" to get the wrong answer to a problem(how many jelly beans were in a jar I believe)...

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Because then ran through things. The Speed force prevents things like causing black holes to appear when he goes lightspeed, or Wally's legs from turning into a liquid.

Not really. Damage wasn't only indicated in areas where he crashed into objects. Areas where he simply passed by saw considerable damage (including when they ran over a skyscraper). While we all know what the Speedforce is capable of, we cannot ignore the fact that on-panel evidence indicated by the art showed that they caused damage EVERYwhere they went.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ thanks, darth.

...makes you wonder what the ground was made of, to be able to support an infinite amount of weight. lol.

haermm

Not to mention those other characters being there, who besides being alive, are also capable of moving muscles in the first place.

But clearly, a random 'infinite!' line from the silver age makes it clear that the feat is on-par with Ultraman's/Superman's/Captain Marvel's.