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Master Kenobi and his padawan have stumbled across two pissed off veterans in the game. They immediately engage each other. To make the match fair the Jedi aren't allowed to directly pull Captain America's shield away from him with there force powers. Anything else goes.......this is goint to be messy.

Setting: Endor forest (Return of the Jedi)

Marvel
*Captain America (Ultimate Avengers)
*Wolverine (Hulk vs.)

Jedi
*Obi-Wan Kenobi (Revenge of the Sith)
*Anakin Skywalker (Revenge of the Sith)

Please explain why you think which team wins. Express the way you see it and put creativity into your answer. Thanks!

Lightsaber cannot cut Adamantium/Cap's Shield.

Cap't goes down.

If your SW fanboysim allows you to believe a lightsabre can cut right through adamantium as it would butter, then Wolverine goes down too.

If you believe a lightsabre can cut through adamantium, but only after a long exposure, ie blade constantly resting against it, then Wolverine will eventually wear down the Jedi and land killing blows.

If you believe a lightsabre can't cut through adamantium at all, same as above.

Either jedi could easily kill Cap't.

Wolverine however might solo due to his HF, but that depends...I don't know enough about Wolverine, but how good is his HF during Hulk vs.? Can he recover from being chopped into pieces, or does he still have to be "alive" in order to reform? If he can still recover, then he eventually wins since the Jedi team can't kill him, but if he can't then jedi win easily.

Fixed. Cap is tough. He traded blows with Hulk, seemed unconcerned from atleast 3 bullet wounds to the upper chest area, and fought on after a stab in the ribcage. Not to mention all of his huge jumps like going out of an airplane without need of a parachute, and jumping out of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s medical facility. The forest on Endor will allow him to work wonders with his shield and ricochet it.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Fixed. Cap is tough. He traded blows with Hulk, seemed unconcerned from atleast 3 bullet wounds to the upper chest area, and fought on after a stab in the ribcage. Not to mention all of his huge jumps like going out of an airplane without need of a parachute, and jumping out of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s medical facility. The forest on Endor will allow him to work wonders with his shield and ricochet it.

Although the OP stated that the jedi can't yank away the shield, nowhere does it state that they can't simply Force push Cap or TK him like a rag doll. And the jedi can block blaster bolts, especially Obi Wan, who by this time is considered to be THE master of the defensive form Soresu, so they could easily block/dodge Cap's shield.

Neither Jedi has ever showed that ability. Only one who has is Yoda and Tyranus.

Technically, your right, Kenobi shouldn't have problems meeting the shield. But a saber meeting another saber is totally different from one meeting 12 pound shield with Cap wielding it. There'll major force put behind it. Watch Vader and Luke's fights to get a picture of what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Neither Jedi has ever showed that ability. Only one who has is Yoda and Tyranus.

Technically, your right, Kenobi shouldn't have problems meeting the shield. But a saber meeting another saber is totally different from one meeting 12 pound shield with Cap wielding it. There'll major force put behind it. Watch Vader and Luke's fights to get a picture of what I'm talking about.

What? Every Jedi that has received sufficient training (and these two, being among the best in the history in the order, are certainly far above average) can levitate and move objects (or in this case, humans).

Now that's true, but couldn't they TK it away? I mean, the OP states that you can't yank it out of Cap's hands, but if he's throwing it at him, are they allowed to TK it then?

If not, then they could still have one of them dodge it, block it, or do something else with it, and even if it knocks them down from the impact of it (after they block it), the other could simply go up to Cap (who doesn't have his shield with him) and attack him. Wolverine won't be fast enough to catch up.

Lifting either one of these two isn't going to kill them.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Lifting either one of these two isn't going to kill them.

Perhaps not, but throwing them around and slamming them hard to the ground would at least injure Cap. And if Cap tries to throw his shield, one blocks while other throws lightsaber at Cap, who wouldn't be able to block with his shield. If the Jedi don't do this and decide to confront him physically, then either Cap would fair significantly better, however I still believe that either could win. They are stronger/faster/etc. than Cap thanks to their Force enhanced abilities, their lightsabers are virtually weightless (the only weight is the handle) allowing them to swing them very fast, and they have pre cog.

Wolverine however might be the deciding factor. How advanced is his HF in Hulk vs?

Only way they're killing Capt is with a lightsabre. Ultimate Capt took hits from an enraged Ultimate Hulk and kept coming back, Force-Push/Slams aren't doing shit, but annoying him.

Wolverine had a kick-ass HF in that film, Hulk literally pounded him into the ground and he was up in under a minute, all healed and ready to go.

He was also stabbed through the abdomen by Deathstrike's arm and it didn't bother him all that much.

I disagree. They aren't physically stronger than Steve. They can sprint in short distants at rediculously fast speeds but as far as combat speed is concerned......I'd say Steve is faster. Saber throw? Steve dodges gunfire.

Wolverine took assault rifle rounds from a dozen or so Weapon X commandos and shrugged it off. He is stabbed numerous times in the film but only pisses him off apparently. Hulk ****ed him up real bad in there fight but he was up after 10 seconds. My favorite feat of his was when Hulk punched him hundreds of feet into the air and he free falled his way down without fall breakage. He was up on his feet in under ten seconds.

Hundreds of feet? Hulk hit him over a mile up and a few miles out. Was a great scene.

Yeah, I was going to say 1,000+ feet but was scared of getting corrected. Couldn't really tell. Twas' a great scene.

Originally posted by Robtard
Only way they're killing Capt is with a lightsabre. Ultimate Capt took hits from an enraged Ultimate Hulk and kept coming back, Force-Push/Slams aren't doing shit, but annoying him.

Wolverine had a kick-ass HF in that film, Hulk literally pounded him into the ground and he was up in under a minute, all healed and ready to go.

He was also stabbed through the abdomen by Deathstrike's arm and it didn't bother him all that much.
Originally posted by Darth Martin
I disagree. They aren't physically stronger than Steve. They can sprint in short distants at rediculously fast speeds but as far as combat speed is concerned......I'd say Steve is faster. Saber throw? Steve dodges gunfire.

Wolverine took assault rifle rounds from a dozen or so Weapon X commandos and shrugged it off. He is stabbed numerous times in the film but only pisses him off apparently. Hulk ****ed him up real bad in there fight but he was up after 10 seconds. My favorite feat of his was when Hulk punched him hundreds of feet into the air and he free falled his way down without fall breakage. He was up on his feet in under ten seconds.

1. TK would have the very useful effect of denying Cap the ability to move/attack.

2. I dunno that much about Cap, but what class (in comic terms) strength is he about?

3. In close quarters, Jedi have:

Pre Cog (this is very important)
Arguably greater/at least comparable physical attributes
Lightsabers are almost weightless (only weight is the handle), so they could swing it faster
Lightsaber could easily chop Cap in half with one clean stroke if Cap fails to block it, but a strike from Cap's shield wouldn't one shot the Jedi
Plus, if they can TK Wolverine away, they could temporarily team up on Cap until Wolvie gets back.

3. But can Wolverine heal from being beheaded and chopped into pieces?

They can stop or slow Capt with the Force; they can't kill him with it. Lightsabre's can, so not sure why you persist with the Force ending him.

Capt was strong enough to flip over some anti-aircraft canon that looked to be about the size of a tank. Also was about to knock Hulk on his ass for a bit.

They can't behead Wolverine, or chop through him. The adamantium, see the OP.

Originally posted by Robtard
They can stop or slow Capt with the Force; they can't kill him with it. Lightsabre's can, so not sure why you persist with the Force ending him.

Capt was strong enough to flip over some anti-aircraft canon that looked to be about the size of a tank. Also was about to knock Hulk on his ass for a bit.

They can't behead Wolverine, or chop through him. The adamantium, see the OP.

I don't think that TK would end him unless if they're fighting next to a very large cliff or some other situation like that, however I do see TK being a big help for the Jedi by distracting/injuring Cap/Wolvie and denying them the ability to attack.

Can you describe that in greater detail please? Was the cannon on the ground on a flat surface? Was it...etc.

Does the adamantium extend through his head? Because even if so can he recover from having him beheaded halfway to the adamantium spine and chopped halfway in multiple places?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
1. TK would have the very useful effect of denying Cap the ability to move/attack.
2. I dunno that much about Cap, but what class (in comic terms) strength is he about?
3. In close quarters, Jedi have:
Pre Cog (this is very important)
Arguably greater/at least comparable physical attributes
Lightsabers are almost weightless (only weight is the handle), so they could swing it faster
Lightsaber could easily chop Cap in half with one clean stroke if Cap fails to block it, but a strike from Cap's shield wouldn't one shot the Jedi
Plus, if they can TK Wolverine away, they could temporarily team up on Cap until Wolvie gets back.
3. But can Wolverine heal from being beheaded and chopped into pieces?

1. Jedi aren't going to fight cheap. They've never done what your ensuing they'll do.
2. Ult. Cap is listed at about 2 tons. But as Rob said he flipped a huge cannon so this is debatable. He's much stronger physically than the Jedi.
3. I know Star Wars and am in the SWVF frequently. An overview isn't required.
-But okay, pre-cog is one of there significaqnt advantages in determining the Caps shield trajectory.
-Greater physical stats? They can certainly leap higher. But everything else must go to Cap in a landslide. Jedi fatigue. Cap and Wolverine don't.
-Sure, but do you really think they'll get that shot handily. Cap dodges automatic gunfire casually. A pierce or stab isn't guaranteed to down Cap either. Kleizer stabbed him in the second film. He sucked it up and fought on. Cap may not kill them but remember that he was making Hulk feel his blows.......w/o the shield at times. This is surely something the Jedi won't be used to.
-This is a concievable strategy. But I doubt it'll occur. Anakin won't want to team up. Besides both suck when fighting together(see ep.3 Dooku fight) and both are better duelists while solo.
4. Wolverine cannot be beheaded. His skull and entire skeletal system for that matter is comprised of Adamantium. He can be stabbed though as Lade Deathstrike demonstrated. But you have to cut him in-between the skeleton.

Jedi win easily.

Dare I mention Force choke?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dare I mention Force choke?

Force choke can't be performed on any being. That's why Luke didn't force-choke the Rancor and Obi-wan and Anakin didn't choke the spider-tiger or giant Praying mantis. Any assumption that they could force-choke the Hulk, Silver Surfer or Galacticus is pure fan-boy silliness. Prove that in the movie force choke had no physical restrictions. I'll give you that they could prolly force choke Logan but not the Cap.

We had this convo before, no proof was given.

Well that's what I was implying, that Wolvie would be easy to force choke.

One thing to consider also is that if Anakin or Obi-Wan were hit even once by Wolvie or Cap-- that's it.

I hate calling this a one-shot on Marvels' side but that's what it is.

Originally posted by Blinky
One thing to consider also is that if Anakin or Obi-Wan were hit even once by Wolvie or Cap-- that's it.

I hate calling this a one-shot on Marvels' side but that's what it is.

Why can't force choke be used on Cap?

None of them are hitting the Jedi. Lol they get hit once by Cap and they are done? How is that? Cap has Hulk strength or something?

Originally posted by Placidity
Why can't force choke be used on Cap?

None of them are hitting the Jedi. Lol they get hit once by Cap and they are done? How is that? Cap has Hulk strength or something?

Coz this is ULTIMATE Cap dewd.

About them not getting hit by Wolvie or Cap... tsk tsk. Pre-cog is overated.

Originally posted by Blinky
One thing to consider also is that if Anakin or Obi-Wan were hit even once by Wolvie or Cap-- that's it.

I hate calling this a one-shot on Marvels' side but that's what it is. Precog would help here, plus they can block whatever Cap or Wolvie bring.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Precog would help here, plus they can block whatever Cap or Wolvie bring.
Yeah pre-cog helped Obi-Wan do great against Jango .

Hey, shit happens.

Hahaha. Good one.

Sith happens?

Originally posted by Blinky
Coz this is ULTIMATE Cap dewd.

About them not getting hit by Wolvie or Cap... tsk tsk. Pre-cog is overated.

So, this is Jedi dewd

And Jedi aren't getting hit, them running in means insta-deCap for Cap (ha pun intended). Double force push Wolverine away, then 2v1 Cap and dice him.

Anakin force grabs Cap and pulls him into Obi Wans saber, maybe?

Hey knuckle heads, the Jedi can't kill Wolverine(adamantium>lightsabre here), only harm him and his healing-factor is tip ****ing top in this incarnation. So how are they bringing him down and out?

Originally posted by Robtard
Hey knuckle heads, the Jedi can't kill Wolverine(adamantium>lightsabre here), only harm him and his healing-factor is tip ****ing top in this incarnation. So how are they bringing him down and out?

Do you agree that Cap dies and Wolverine ain't hurting anyone first?

Originally posted by Placidity
Do you agree that Cap dies and Wolverine ain't hurting anyone first?

Nah, I'm sure he won't... only somebody blinded by StarWars worship would agree to that.

Originally posted by Blinky
Nah, I'm sure he won't... only somebody blinded by StarWars worship would agree to that.

Hahaha...

No offense, but how much do you know about Star Wars? The fact that you actually consider the fact that a JEDI might use Force choke says something.

Anyway, either of the Jedi could beat cap via TK and lightsaber:

They pull him towards Anakin/Obi Wan
TK his arms to his sides
And stab him

Only someone blinded by CaptainAmerica worship would say that Cap is somehow immune to the Force.

...

Originally posted by Blinky
...

concession accepted

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
concession accepted

Stupidity accepted

Now, did anybody actually READ my posts?

Originally posted by Blinky
One thing to consider also is that if Anakin or Obi-Wan were hit even once by Wolvie or Cap-- that's it.

I hate calling this a one-shot on Marvels' side but that's what it is.

Wrong, a shield to the face, even one made out of Vibranium, wouldn't one shot Anakin/Obi Wan.

And one clean shot from Anakin/Obi Wan = done for Cap

Originally posted by Blinky
Coz this is ULTIMATE Cap dewd.

About them not getting hit by Wolvie or Cap... tsk tsk. Pre-cog is overated.

That pre cog allows Obi Wan/Anakin to deflect blaster bolts (which move far faster than Cap or Wolverine can attack)...

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Wrong, a shield to the face, even one made out of Vibranium, wouldn't one shot Anakin/Obi Wan.

And one clean shot from Anakin/Obi Wan = done for Cap
So says you. It's funny though because your logic implies that Ultimate Hulk could not one-shot Obi/Ani. If it is the case that you think this --- then the fanboy-force is strong with you.


Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

That pre cog allows Obi Wan/Anakin to deflect blaster bolts (which move far faster than Cap or Wolverine can attack)...
Originally posted by Blinky
Yeah pre-cog helped Obi-Wan do great against Jango .

??? Are you implying that Cap has as much hitting power as Hulk????

Jango was a very skilled h2h combatant possibly on par with Cap, had advanced armor, had a jetpack, had blasters, was a very skilled shooter, had support from Slave 1, a ship whose shots could produce the firepower of millions of watts and Obi Wan wasn't trying to kill/severely harm him, just capture him.

Are you even aware that we are discussing ULTIMATE Cap?

Everybody knows that Earth 616 Cap would get sabre-raped.

Originally posted by Blinky
Are you even aware that we are discussing ULTIMATE Cap?

Everybody knows that Earth 616 Cap would get sabre-raped.

OK then:

Please explain WHY Captain America would beat Anakin or Obi Wan one on one, and HOW.

First question:

Did you read ANY of my posts?

Originally posted by Blinky
First question:

Did you read ANY of my posts?

I responded to many of them, so obviously I did.

I didn't respond DIRECTLY to your post about them not Force choking Rancor/etc somehow being proof that the Force choke doesn't work on everybody (you're RIGHT, next to nothing works on EVERYBODY...) because JEDI DON'T USE FORCE CHOKE!!! That's why, even if they could (which is entirely reasonable) they don't use it because it is considered to be a dark side technique.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
1. Of course not, but Cap's body isn't more durable than armor that lightsabers have cut through (and this armor can withstand GIGATON power explosions), so Obi Wan/Anakin could just as easily one shot Cap if they hit him.
Ok you agreed with me there. But Caps durability is maxed out in the Ultimate Universe, so who know's what a light-sabre would do against him. Anything you claim will be an assumption.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

2. Why do you keep on bringing this up? This implies that Cap has as much hitting power as Hulk, which is ridiculous.

Yeah it is. But that is the way Marvel wrote the Ultimate Universe.

But don't take my word for it: Check out Ultimate Cap's OFFICIAL Stats.
http://marvel.com/universe/Captain_America_(Ultimate)
Maxed out abilities across the board.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

The question is how advanced in Wolvie's healing? Can he regenerate from being chopped up?
You're assuming a lightsabre could cut through Adamantium. I won't discuss this any further, because I already did in the "Lightsaber versus Adamantium" Thread.

1. A lightsaber, as I have stated numerous times, can cut through armor that can withstand GIGATON power explosions.

2. ...

K, that's a tad ridiculous...how is his intelligence at max???

3. Well, maybe not the spine, but the flesh they could chop up, could he regenerate from that?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
1. A lightsaber, as I have stated numerous times, can cut through armor that can withstand GIGATON power explosions.
Umkay, sounds like they could cut the Cap -- but I'm not entirely convinced.
EDIT : If what you said above is true. Lightsabres WILL cut the cap. Just like one blow from Caps shield could slay either Jedi.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

2. ...

K, that's a tad ridiculous...how is his intelligence at max???.
I dunno. Ask a fan of the Ultimate Universe... one of those, I am not.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

3. Well, maybe not the spine, but the flesh they could chop up, could he regenerate from that?
Wolverines healing factor in "Hulk VS Wolverine" is the highest I've ever seen it on screen.

If you havent seen the movie:
http://www.tu.tv/videos/hulk-vs-wolverine-cartoon-2009-part-1
http://www.tu.tv/videos/hulk-vs-wolverine-cartoon-2009-part-2
http://www.tu.tv/videos/hulk-vs-wolverine-cartoon-2009-part-3
http://www.tu.tv/videos/hulk-vs-wolverine-cartoon-2009-part-4

I was amazed at how bad-ass they made Wolvie in this movie.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Wrong, a shield to the face, even one made out of Vibranium, wouldn't one shot Anakin/Obi Wan.


It would decapitate them.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dare I mention Force choke? An uncommon and dangerous tactic among Jedi. Luke is the only lightside force user to display this in the movies when he chokes Jabba's guards in RotJ. Even then, it wasn't in combat. Anakin only displays this on Padme after he has fallen to the darkside in RotS. Doubt they'll even consider using this.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Wrong, a shield to the face, even one made out of Vibranium, wouldn't one shot Anakin/Obi Wan. Yes, it would. He's cut straight through a truck throwing it. He sliced Kleizer's arm off with it. Not to mention just by force of it ricocheting off things it was left stuck in a concrete wall half-way. Just because Cap throws it and it knocks people on there asses doesn't mean he can't throw it looking for the kill. That said, it would have to hit the Jedi. Cap connecting the Jedi with a shield throw is highly unlikely IMO.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
??? Are you implying that Cap has as much hitting power as Hulk???? Of course not, but he was able to take some of Hulk's blows and dish some of his own out that Hulk seemed effected by for short period of time. That speaks wonders about his strength.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Jango was a very skilled h2h combatant possibly on par with Cap, had advanced armor, had a jetpack, had blasters, was a very skilled shooter, had support from Slave 1, a ship whose shots could produce the firepower of millions of watts and Obi Wan wasn't trying to kill/severely harm him, just capture him. Jango is nowhere near Cap in terms of a combat. He has range, sure, but it's limited. He's has two blasters which isn't a problem for RotS Kenobi, who at this time has mastered Soresu, and a rocket launcher which is pretty cheap if you ask me. Once you get past that Cap is a much more dangerous opponent. Cap would slaughter Jango and so would RotS Kenobi if he were going for the kill this time around.

*Double Post*

Originally posted by Robtard
Hey knuckle heads, the Jedi can't kill Wolverine(adamantium>lightsabre here), only harm him and his healing-factor is tip ****ing top in this incarnation. So how are they bringing him down and out? Force choke.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Force choke.

Think that would permanately take out Wolvie (as shown in "Hulk VS Wolverine"? Worked on Padame, right ? Nah, his healing factor would probably revive him in seconds.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
An uncommon and dangerous tactic among Jedi. Luke is the only lightside force user to display this in the movies when he chokes Jabba's guards in RotJ. Even then, it wasn't in combat. Anakin only displays this on Padme after he has fallen to the darkside in RotS. Doubt they'll even consider using this.

Yes, it would. He's cut straight through a truck throwing it. He sliced Kleizer's arm off with it. Not to mention just by force of it ricocheting off things it was left stuck in a concrete wall half-way. Just because Cap throws it and it knocks people on there asses doesn't mean he can't throw it looking for the kill. That said, it would have to hit the Jedi. Cap connecting the Jedi with a shield throw is highly unlikely IMO.

Of course not, but he was able to take some of Hulk's blows and dish some of his own out that Hulk seemed effected by for short period of time. That speaks wonders about his strength.

Jango is nowhere near Cap in terms of a combat. He has range, sure, but it's limited. He's has two blasters which isn't a problem for RotS Kenobi, who at this time has mastered Soresu, and a rocket launcher which is pretty cheap if you ask me. Once you get past that Cap is a much more dangerous opponent. Cap would slaughter Jango and so would RotS Kenobi if he were going for the kill this time around.

True

OK then, I withdraw my point...

True...

I'd say that Cap would beat Jango in a fistfight quite easily, but I doubt how well he'd do in AOTC Kenobi's (who, as you know, wasn't as powerful as his ROTS incarnation) place, especially with the Slave 1 ship firing on him.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Force choke. I already covered this in my last post.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
I'd say that Cap would beat Jango in a fistfight quite easily, but I doubt how well he'd do in AOTC Kenobi's (who, as you know, wasn't as powerful as his ROTS incarnation) place, especially with the Slave 1 ship firing on him.

Cap would wreck all three in H2H. RotS Kenobi had trouble with Grievous. Cap would wreck Grievous.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
I already covered this in my last post.



Cap would wreck all three in H2H. RotS Kenobi had trouble with Grievous. Cap would wreck Grievous.

Grevious was capable of striking at 20 strikes per second, I doubt that Cap could move his shield that fast.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Force choke. I already covered this in my last post.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
I'd say that Cap would beat Jango in a fistfight quite easily, but I doubt how well he'd do in AOTC Kenobi's (who, as you know, wasn't as powerful as his ROTS incarnation) place, especially with the Slave 1 ship firing on him. Cap would wreck all three in H2H. RotS Kenobi was getting thrown around by Grievous. Cap would tear Grievous apart in a H2H fight.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Force choke.

Can you read?

haermm That was me being an ass.

What is to stop the Jedi from simply pulling Either combatant onto their blades with the force? Its why non-force combatants have a very difficult time against force combatants.

Originally posted by truejedi
What is to stop the Jedi from simply pulling Either combatant onto their blades with the force? Its why non-force combatants have a very difficult time against force combatants.

Obi wouldn't do that, Anakin probably would though. The problem however, with that is that Cap has a shield, so he can just put it in front of him, and be safe.

You pull Wolverine onto your blade, and you die, because he'll tank the pain, and now you're within slicing distance.

Originally posted by KingD19
Obi wouldn't do that, Anakin probably would though. The problem however, with that is that Cap has a shield, so he can just put it in front of him, and be safe.

You pull Wolverine onto your blade, and you die, because he'll tank the pain, and now you're within slicing distance.

In a one on one fight? Why wouldn't kenobi do that? He is in a fight to the death. Its silly to try to hash out a character's motivation. You have put them in a fight to the death. Where do we get the idea that Captain's shield can block a saber?

And with Wolverine: Not so much if the blade is going straight through his forhead.

Originally posted by truejedi
In a one on one fight? Why wouldn't kenobi do that? He is in a fight to the death. Its silly to try to hash out a character's motivation. You have put them in a fight to the death. Where do we get the idea that Captain's shield can block a saber?

And with Wolverine: Not so much if the blade is going straight through his forhead.

That's not Kenobi, when he was fighting Maul, he killed him only because Qui-Gon was dead already, and he knew he couldn't just beat him, he had to kill him.

When he fought Anakin, he could've killed him, but he just lopped his limbs off.

He's the Master of the defensive form, he's not the type to kill you if he can help it.

And unless you think a saber will go clean through adamantium/vibranium, when there are numerous metals/minerals that a saber can't cut/penetrate, then you're just hoping for a win.

And no, the sabers not goin through Logan's skull, it's adamantium.

Originally posted by KingD19


And no, the sabers not goin through Logan's skull, it's adamantium. eyeball.

Originally posted by truejedi
Not so much if the blade is going straight through his forhead. I don't think so.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
eyeball.

So when it goes through his eyeball, and stops at the back of the ocular cavity, what then?

Originally posted by KingD19
So when it goes through his eyeball, and stops at the back of the ocular cavity, what then? mouth.

I just realized something. The Jedi are gimped here.

Also, Annie force chokes Wolvie, indo story.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
mouth.

That's not gonna stop Logan, and if he does get choked, he's gonna fight through it.

No, dude. Insert saber, twist upwards, destroy the brain. And dude, no, he will die from lack of oxygen. Grab him in a force hold and choke him out.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No, dude. Insert saber, twist upwards, destroy the brain. And dude, no, he will die from lack of oxygen. Grab him in a force hold and choke him out.

The brain is in a protective cavity of bone, in Logans case, adamantium.

He's gonna die like Padme died? He only had choke, Wolverine can power through a choke and get to Anakin before he passes out.

lift them both off their feet with the force. Hold them there until they get tired of kicking around. That makes it trivial. They have no leverage 6 inches off the ground.

Sorry, was it shown in the movie that the brain was encased as you say?

Force hold AND force choke.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Sorry, was it shown in the movie that the brain was encased as you say?

Force hold AND force choke.

It's a scientific fact that your brain is inside a cavity, and in the movies, it was stated that his entire skeleton was laced with Adamantium, for them to neglect that one spot when they said his entire skeleton is just not smart.

And like I said, he only showed Push and Pull, never hold or any advanced TK. As for the choke, people are still capable of moving while they're choking, look at Padme, and Admiral Motti.
Originally posted by truejedi
lift them both off their feet with the force. Hold them there until they get tired of kicking around. That makes it trivial. They have no leverage 6 inches off the ground.

Were they shown to be able to hold human sized opponents in the air? Anakin twirled some balls with the Force, besides that, he and Obi only used Push and maybe Pull.

One punch from Hulk would've turned his entire skull into dust if his skull wasn't made of adamantium as well. It's pretty obvious that he has an adamantium skull.

Originally posted by KingD19
It's a scientific fact that your brain is inside a cavity, and in the movies, it was stated that his entire skeleton was laced with Adamantium, for them to neglect that one spot when they said his entire skeleton is just not smart.

And like I said, he only showed Push and Pull, never hold or any advanced TK. As for the choke, people are still capable of moving while they're choking, look at Padme, and Admiral Motti.


Were they shown to be able to hold human sized opponents in the air? Anakin twirled some balls with the Force, besides that, he and Obi only used Push and maybe Pull.

OK, so Anakin force chokes him, and as Wolvie tries to "fight through it", you know, try to get at Anakin, Anakin uses force speed and acrobatics to evade Wolvie.

Or this: Annie force chokes Wolvie, Obi Wan force pushes Wolvie again and again and again, keeping him at bay, until he dies.


Question about the human skull. If I were to take a knife and stab someone in the eye with it, could I reach the brain?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK, so Anakin force chokes him, and as Wolvie tries to "fight through it", you know, try to get at Anakin, Anakin uses force speed and acrobatics to evade Wolvie.

Or this: Annie force chokes Wolvie, Obi Wan force pushes Wolvie again and again and again, keeping him at bay, until he dies.


Question about the human skull. If I were to take a knife and stab someone in the eye with it, could I reach the brain?

As much as he went through, you honestly think he's going to slow down for a simple Choke? It's not even Force Grip/Crush, Choke just feels like something is squeezing your throat. And Anakin isn't good enough to use Choke and move around at the same time. As for him using Choke while Obi pushes Logan, then Hulk just kills Ani and Obi.

You could probably reach the brain if you had enough force behind the knife, you know, you could possibly break through the bone and hit the brain....but with Adamantium....no

Whoa, since when is the ****ing HULK in this fight?

My bad, I was thinking of when he was fighting Hulk.

But yeah, even with Cap. Let both Ani and Obi focus on Wolverine, they get cracked up side the head with a piece of American history.

No. Cap goes down quicker than shit. Annie and Obi, working together using force speed and force push, take him out fast. Then they turn on Wolvie.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No. Cap goes down quicker than shit. Annie and Obi, working together using force speed and force push, take him out fast. Then they turn on Wolvie.

Obi wan only showed that level of speed once, Anakin never did, and they can't move all that good on Endor. Wolverine and Cap on the other hand, are acrobatic as hell, they make good use of the trees. As for the Force Push, it wasn't shown to be all that strong, just pushed people a few feet through the air.

Anakin is more powerful than Obi, he can surely use force speed. And yes, they can use it any time they wish, it's not like a Jedi can use force speed once and only once in their life.

Obi Wan used force push as a padawan to push droids away, droids tht easily outweighed humans.

Jedi precog, dude. They will know what Wolvie and Cap will do before they do it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Anakin is more powerful than Obi, he can surely use force speed. And yes, they can use it any time they wish, it's not like a Jedi can use force speed once and only once in their life.

Obi Wan used force push as a padawan to push droids away, droids tht easily outweighed humans.

Jedi precog, dude. They will know what Wolvie and Cap will do before they do it.

Movie feats man, Anakin was never shown using speed that Obi/Qui-Gon showed on the ship in Ep 1. And if Obi could use it whenever he wanted....why did he only do it once?

I've seen the movies, and I've seen what Force Push does, it doesn't push you much more than 10 feet or so through the air.

And yeah, they have precog, but both Wolverine and Cap are faster than normal human opponents, plus they can easily outlast the Jedi in a fight.

Originally posted by KingD19
Movie feats man, Anakin was never shown using speed that Obi/Qui-Gon showed on the ship in Ep 1. And if Obi could use it whenever he wanted....why did he only do it once?

I've seen the movies, and I've seen what Force Push does, it doesn't push you much more than 10 feet or so through the air.

And yeah, they have precog, but both Wolverine and Cap are faster than normal human opponents, plus they can easily outlast the Jedi in a fight. Listen to what you are saying. You are implying that a Jedi can use force speed only once during their career as a jedi. Like it will be exhausted after the one use. It's stupid.

10 feet is more than enough.

No, Wolvie is not faster than a Jedi. Cap maybe.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Listen to what you are saying. You are implying that a Jedi can use force speed only once during their career as a jedi. Like it will be exhausted after the one use. It's stupid.

10 feet is more than enough.

No, Wolvie is not faster than a Jedi. Cap maybe.

I'm just saying , Obi only used it once in his career, Anakin never displayed it at all, if they aren't shown doing it, they can't do it. Forum rules right?

And the Cap from the movie, pushing him 10 feet won't do anything, he'll roll and get right back in the fight.

And I said faster than a normal human, I never said he was faster than a Jedi, but Wolverine was handing it to Sabretooth and Omega Red.

Originally posted by KingD19
I'm just saying , Obi only used it once in his career, Anakin never displayed it at all, if they aren't shown doing it, they can't do it. Forum rules right?

And the Cap from the movie, pushing him 10 feet won't do anything, he'll roll and get right back in the fight.

And I said faster than a normal human, I never said he was faster than a Jedi, but Wolverine was handing it to Sabretooth and Omega Red. Aahahahahahahaaa that's silly. Anakin is more powerful than Obi Wan but he can't use a power Obi Wan displayed? Fail, dude, fail. Anakin can use force speed, plain and simple. He showed a level of force speed when fighting Obi.


So he gets up, and? He'll never get close enough to them to even attack. Same for Wolvie.

Omega red, was Red in the movies?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Aahahahahahahaaa that's silly. Anakin is more powerful than Obi Wan but he can't use a power Obi Wan displayed? Fail, dude, fail. Anakin can use force speed, plain and simple. He showed a level of force speed when fighting Obi.


So he gets up, and? He'll never get close enough to them to even attack. Same for Wolvie.

Omega red, was Red in the movies?

We're not using Origins, or X1-X3, this is Hulk vs Wolverine. Where he showed levels of speed, agility, strength, etc... far beyond the other movies.

I was under the assumption that if you were more powerful than someone, you didn't let them cut off 3/4 of your limbs. And while Anakin did show a level of combat speed, he didn't show movement speed, if we go by combat speed, then the jedi are in trouble, they moved slow compared to Cap/Wolvie, since you know Cartoons>>>>Human Actors.

Seriously, you don't want to defend the Marvel pair based on what a cartoon makes them appear capable of, or else anakin solos. Easily.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmt8yPbSxj0&feature=related

He can fly. He can move faster than the eye can follow. He can throw huge pillars around easily with the force.

Or... Obi wan solos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cug2tjhHI-g

Originally posted by truejedi
Seriously, you don't want to defend the Marvel pair based on what a cartoon makes them appear capable of, or else anakin solos. Easily.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmt8yPbSxj0&feature=related

He can fly. He can move faster than the eye can follow. He can throw huge pillars around easily with the force.

Or... Obi wan solos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cug2tjhHI-g

That's nice, but read the OP genius, Obi and Anakin are from Revenge of the Sith, I've seen the original Clone Wars cartoon, and I know damn well what they can do, they sure couldn't do that in Revenge of the Sith, which is why I said, Cartoons>>>>Human Actors.

You don't want to defend the SW pair based on what the human actors are capable of.

Originally posted by KingD19
That's nice, but read the OP genius, Obi and Anakin are from Revenge of the Sith, I've seen the original Clone Wars cartoon, and I know damn well what they can do, they sure couldn't do that in Revenge of the Sith, which is why I said, Cartoons>>>>Human Actors.

You don't want to defend the SW pair based on what the human actors are capable of.

This is quite simple. ROTS is after the events of the cartoons, thus anything depicted in those movies can also be assumed to be possible for the ROTS pair. Anything else is skewing the argument to fit your point of view, and nothing less.

Originally posted by KingD19


I was under the assumption that if you were more powerful than someone, you didn't let them cut off 3/4 of your limbs. And while Anakin did show a level of combat speed, he didn't show movement speed, if we go by combat speed, then the jedi are in trouble, they moved slow compared to Cap/Wolvie, since you know Cartoons>>>>Human Actors.

You kidding me?

zzph5aVsa-0


Look at 5:00, Anakin closes the gap between he and Obi wan, about 40 feet, in about a second.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No. Cap goes down quicker than shit. Annie and Obi, working together using force speed and force push, take him out fast. I think your underestimating Rogers. He's taken massive falls and punches from the likes of the Hulk. So, Force pushes may not be as deadly as you say. He's been stabbed and shot, so lightsaber isn't guaranteed to be a one shot kill. He was shot 5 times in the second film, continuing on unworringly as if nothing happened, still performing up to par. Later, it is implyed that he refuses to go to medical.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Anakin is more powerful than Obi, Prove it using film feats.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
I think your underestimating Rogers. He's taken massive falls and punches from the likes of the Hulk. So, Force pushes may not be as deadly as you say. He's been stabbed and shot, so lightsaber isn't guaranteed to be a one shot kill. He was shot 5 times in the second film, continuing on unworringly as if nothing happened, still performing up to par. Later, it is implyed that he refuses to go to medical.

Prove it using film feats.

So Cap can resist a lightsaber blade? Wow.

Anakin beat Dooku. Anakin had more midichlorians.

Originally posted by truejedi
This is quite simple. ROTS is after the events of the cartoons, thus anything depicted in those movies can also be assumed to be possible for the ROTS pair. Anything else is skewing the argument to fit your point of view, and nothing less.

Doesn't work like that, the Clone Wars cartoon is a different medium, Lucas said the Clone Wars Cartoon was what he envisioned the Jedi/Sith power levels to be like, but of course it's much lower in the movies. You can't use Clone Wars feats for ROTS.

And yeah, he used Force Jump, whoopty frickin doo.

I see a lot of up-playing of the Marvel characters and a lot of downplay to the Jedi (with some posts being silly enough to try and use something other than movies.)


In chronological order, this is how Logan can be killed:

1. Sabertooth said that he was going to enjoy killing Wolverine over the course of a couple of days. Obviously, Wolverine's healing factor gives out after a while and Logan would die.

2. Deathstrike was going to kill Logan by sticking a finger in Logan's brain steam.






Thoughts can be "heard" from the other people. If Wolverine even thinks of a way that he could be killed, the Jedi kill him.

Rogers is a none issue, here. He's not even a player in this.


Also, the optic nerve travels to the brain. Stab the saber through the optic nerve on Wolvie. Pwned.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So Cap can resist a lightsaber blade? Wow.

Anakin beat Dooku. Anakin had more midichlorians.

Anakin had more midichlorians than anyone ever, having been possibly consumed by them. Doesn't mean he's the most powerful. He has more raw power and untapped potential, Tyranus is far more skilled in the Force and is atleast as skilled as Anakin with a lightsaber. Anakin won because of circumstance. If both fought each other without Palpatine or Kenobi there, Tyranus will take a majority IMO.

That very video shows Anakin failing to overcome Kenobi's force push with his own. They are more or less equals.

Why wouldn't Cap be able to resist one? Kenobi did. He's taken a stab by Kleizer near his heart, been shot multiple times to no avail, and taken massive hits from Hulk.

Can either Jedi afford to take a hit from Cap's shield. Nope.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I see a lot of up-playing of the Marvel characters and a lot of downplay to the Jedi (with some posts being silly enough to try and use something other than movies.)


In chronological order, this is how Logan can be killed:

1. Sabertooth said that he was going to enjoy killing Wolverine over the course of a couple of days. Obviously, Wolverine's healing factor gives out after a while and Logan would die.

2. Deathstrike was going to kill Logan by sticking a finger in Logan's brain steam.

Where is it explicitly stated that Sabretooth could've killed Wolverine? I don't remember it. I remember him saying it, I don't remember it being stated or reason being given as to how this could happen.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Thoughts can be "heard" from the other people. If Wolverine even thinks of a way that he could be killed, the Jedi kill him.

Rogers is a none issue, here. He's not even a player in this.


Also, the optic nerve travels to the brain. Stab the saber through the optic nerve on Wolvie. Pwned.

How would blinding him in one eye kill him? One of the criteria is that lightsabre can't cut adamantium. How's it going to reach his brain?

-AC

Originally posted by dadudemon
Rogers is a none issue, here. He's not even a player in this.facepalm

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Anakin had more midichlorians than anyone ever, having been possibly consumed by them. Doesn't mean he's the most powerful. He has more raw power and untapped potential, Tyranus is far more skilled in the Force and is atleast as skilled as Anakin with a lightsaber. Anakin won because of circumstance. If both fought each other without Palpatine or Kenobi there, Tyranus will take a majority IMO.

That very video shows Anakin failing to overcome Kenobi's force push with his own. They are more or less equals.

Why wouldn't Cap be able to resist one? Kenobi did. He's taken a stab by Kleizer near his heart, been shot multiple times to no avail, and taken massive hits from Hulk.

Can either Jedi afford to take a hit from Cap's shield. Nope. A lightsaber blade is gonna go through him and keep cutting, through his spine, through everything.

And the Jedi aren't gonna get hit by the Shield.

They'll use there lightsabers to try and blocki the shield and be overpowered.

The shield weighs 12 pounds. A lightsaber blade supposedly has no weight.

Oh my dear lord.

Obi-Wan was easily blocking strikes from Greivous who was denting (unknown spaceship) steel with his strength and Anakins as strong if not stronger than him. The Jedi are just as strong as Cap.

Bullshit.

To be fair, slicing with a knife and slicing with a lightsabre is different.

Knifes and regular blades can get stuck on bone and such.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Oh my dear lord.

Horrible isn't it? Medicine is horrible when it's your own that you're tasting.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
To be fair, slicing with a knife and slicing with a lightsabre is different.

Knifes and regular blades can get stuck on bone and such.



Horrible isn't it? Medicine is horrible when it's your own that you're tasting.

-AC Actually I never had a problem with the taste of medicine, even as a child I tool it willingly and without a fight. Even NyQuil.

The Jedi, with the aid of the force are actually much stronger than Cap.
(Check out Kenobi Bending Duranium with his bare hands, thanks to the force in ROTS)

When exactly did he do this?

I think he means when Obi Wan force pulled the big piece of metal from the roof and crushed the magna guards.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
When exactly did he do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XqKvKUTElA

3:52

another thought: if cap throws that shield, he's gonna lose it. You said yourself it weighs 12 pounds. The jedi will simply TK it away.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri


Where is it explicitly stated that Sabretooth could've killed Wolverine? I don't remember it. I remember him saying it, I don't remember it being stated or reason being given as to how this could happen.

It doesn't matter: he said it. It wasn't boisterous, either. It was a rather "done deal", actually. The only logical conclusion is Wolverine's healing factor would wear out, but, from the movie, we know it would take 2 days of constant ass raping to kill Wolverine. You can't prove a negative. You have no way of proving that he couldn't. None of his team-mates contradicted him, and Deathstrike seemed pretty convinced that she could kill Logan.



Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
How would blinding him in one eye kill him? One of the criteria is that lightsabre can't cut adamantium. How's it going to reach his brain?

-AC



The answer was in the post you quoted:

Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, the optic nerve travels to the brain. Stab the saber through the optic nerve on Wolvie. Pwned.




Originally posted by Darth Martin
facepalm

Is Ultimate Captain America, all of a sudden, magic? I didn't think so. Is his body made of adamantium? I didn't think so. Does he have precog? I didn't think so. Is he immune to the force? OP indicates otherwise.



Thread should have been closed at the beginning anyway because Imp said that there would be no more gimping.






Originally posted by truejedi
another thought: if cap throws that shield, he's gonna lose it. You said yourself it weighs 12 pounds. The jedi will simply TK it away.

While that may be true, the Jedi were gimped in the OP, so I don't think that's possible in this thread.

OP? do you mean PT?

There are so many ways for the Jedi to win this fight though, with no scenario's where the Xmen have a realistic shot of winning.

1. Take away Caps shield.
2. Lift them both 6 inches off the ground
3. stab them. (wolverine can obviously be taken down with a bullet to the head,so a lightsaber to the head would incapacitate him in the same way.
4. in Anakin's case, simply choke them. (no one has offered any evidence for why Wolverine would be able to "Power through" this move. The only person to do that in the mythos was Galen Marek, and he knew how to counter it, and THAT was the only reason he was able to.

Originally posted by truejedi
OP? do you mean PT?

There are so many ways for the Jedi to win this fight though, with no scenario's where the Xmen have a realistic shot of winning.

1. Take away Caps shield.
2. Lift them both 6 inches off the ground
3. stab them. (wolverine can obviously be taken down with a bullet to the head,so a lightsaber to the head would incapacitate him in the same way.
4. in Anakin's case, simply choke them. (no one has offered any evidence for why Wolverine would be able to "Power through" this move. The only person to do that in the mythos was Galen Marek, and he knew how to counter it, and THAT was the only reason he was able to.


The Jedi cannot force pull away Cap's shield. They have been gimped

And yeah, Wolvie would react to the force choke the same way a regular human would. Death.

Originally posted by truejedi
OP? do you mean PT?

There are so many ways for the Jedi to win this fight though, with no scenario's where the Xmen have a realistic shot of winning.

1. Take away Caps shield.
2. Lift them both 6 inches off the ground
3. stab them. (wolverine can obviously be taken down with a bullet to the head,so a lightsaber to the head would incapacitate him in the same way.
4. in Anakin's case, simply choke them. (no one has offered any evidence for why Wolverine would be able to "Power through" this move. The only person to do that in the mythos was Galen Marek, and he knew how to counter it, and THAT was the only reason he was able to.

OP= Opening Post, you know, the opening post where it says this is Wolverine from Hulk Vs. and Cap from Ultimate Avengers? And the Jedi are Revenge of the Sith.

1.Can't take Caps shield.

2. Neither of the jedi showed more TK than push and pull, we go my movie feats, if they didn't do it in the movie, they can't do on the forum.

3. Wolverine from Hulk vs. didn't go down to a bullet to the head, plus, in the Origins movie, he took multiple bullets and kept going with no problems. On top of that, getting shot, compared to getting stabbed by a blade of energy wouldn't have the same effect, especially since it wouldn't penetrate his skull, he'd just have a hole burnt in his head that stopped at his skeleton, and he'd be pissed.

4. Stop trying to play the Force Choke up, If if was Force Grip, which is a much stronger choke, while at the same time gripping the opponent in a TK vice, or Force Crush, where you literally implode the opponents body, I'd put up no argument, but it's a simple choke. As much as Wolverine and Cap went through, a choke isn't going to slow them down.

I didn't realize this was a spite thread. But re-reading the OP this time, i see it was. The Jedi can't use their abilities to so much as dis-arm their opponents. Though him throwing the shield, and directly pulling it from him are two different things.

Tell me, in Hulk vs. Wolverine, does it explicitly SAY that Wolverine has an admantium skeleton? And does it SPECIFICALLY show him healing from head wounds?

Does it specifically SHOW him fighting off a force choke?

If not to ANY of these, He can't do it. By your own words.

Also: A lightsaber may be unable to cut through the admantium (thanks to the OP) but it will cut through the muscles and tendons supporting the skeleton. A cut through said muscles effectively takes that limb out of the fight. Skeletons don't operate on their own.

Lastly: A kenobi able to throw and bend the robot skeleton of grievous (20 strokes a second grievous) is going to be unable to manipulate Logan's much smaller metal skeleton?

You are stacking the deck on what is allowed.

For instance:

The Jedi CAN'T use a the well-known jedi practice of levitation,

But Wolverine CAN power through a force-choke? (despite ABSOLUTE no evidence that he can do so!)

You are simply disallowing evidence that you don't like.

Nope, Dudemon.

Gonna need factual proof.

Truejedi: Wolverine has an adamantium skeleton, that's what he has. It's what he always has. It's not an ability, it's part of who he is. It's what he's known for.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The Jedi cannot force pull away Cap's shield. They have been gimped

And yeah, Wolvie would react to the force choke the same way a regular human would. Death.

He wouldn't because Obi-Wan and Jedi Anakin wouldn't force-choke him to death.

I know this for a fact because you agree with me, which I also know for a fact.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Nope, Dudemon.

Gonna need factual proof.

It's in the film. Watch it. You can chose to ignore it, but it doesn't change the fact that it was there.

You have no way to disprove it. Prove that what Savertooth said was wrong, with evidence. My evidence is already out there. Find evidence that runs contradictory.



You also didn't address Deathstrike thinking she could kill wolverine with a Finger spike to the brain stem.





Edit - AC is right about the adamantium skeleton, btw: he has it.

Also, it's reasonable to think he can tank lots of bullets to the head becaue he was fired on by a squadron of soldiers that had automatic assault rifles. Plenty of bullets would have hit his head and chest. Also, I'd like to point out that Deathstike stabbed STRAIGHT through Wolverine's entire body and into Sabertooth's. (I believe it was Logan goading Deathstrike into getting pissed off so she would stab him, injuring Sabertooh in the process and setting him free, which tells us that Logan is a master tactician.) Wolverine WILL use is near invincibility to increase his chances of winning.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's in the film. Watch it. You can chose to ignore it, but it doesn't change the fact that it was there.

You have no way to disprove it. Prove that what Savertooth said was wrong, with evidence. My evidence is already out there. Find evidence that runs contradictory.

I'm not denying he says it, but villains say things like that. You made the claim so YOU have to prove it. YOU have to prove what he said leads, factually, to the conclusion you drew.

You made the claim, I inquired, you now have to prove it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You also didn't address Deathstrike thinking she could kill wolverine with a Finger spike to the brain stem.

So? Thinking you can do something is totally different to being able to actually do it.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri




He wouldn't because Obi-Wan and Jedi Anakin wouldn't force-choke him to death.

I know this for a fact because you agree with me, which I also know for a fact.

-AC Anakin would. He has the ability.

So, um.....wrong.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Anakin would. He has the ability.

So, um.....wrong.

Jedi Anakin, yes?

Not Sith Anakin?

-AC

Originally posted by KingD19


1.Can't take Caps shield.

2. Ne As much as Wolverine and Cap went through, a choke isn't going to slow them down.


1. The Jedi cannot pull it AWAY from Cap. If he throws it, they can do as they please. They can hurl it away, they can hurl it back at him, they can even pull it to them to use themselves. Cap throwing the shield would be stupid.

2. Yes, force choke would certainly have a huge effect on Cap and Wolvie. If they don't breath, their brain gets no oxygen, and well.......we know what happens then.

OK, can someone please post a vid of Cap in action? What are his attacks like?

Originally posted by truejedi
Also: A lightsaber may be unable to cut through the admantium (thanks to the OP) but it will cut through the muscles and tendons supporting the skeleton. A cut through said muscles effectively takes that limb out of the fight. Skeletons don't operate on their own.

Lastly: A kenobi able to throw and bend the robot skeleton of grievous (20 strokes a second grievous) is going to be unable to manipulate Logan's much smaller metal skeleton?

You are stacking the deck on what is allowed.

For instance:

The Jedi CAN'T use a the well-known jedi practice of levitation,

But Wolverine CAN power through a force-choke? (despite ABSOLUTE no evidence that he can do so!)

You are simply disallowing evidence that you don't like.

Sabers can't cut through Adamantium anyway. Sabers can't cut through Beskar(Mandalorian Iron), Virbanium, Phrik, etc.... There are a lot of metal a saber can't cut through, and they're not totally invulnerable Adamantium is. And Logan has a healing factor, a really powerful one, if you cut him, he'll heal.

As for Kenobi, he didn't bend anything, he just forced open Grievous' chest plate, which was already slightly open.

And for the last time, Adamantium is indestructible, there's no manipulating it, bending it, breaking it, etc... That's what Indestructible means.

And I'm not stacking anything, maybe you should read the rules before trying to debate. We only use screen feats, what they were shown doing on screen. Were Anakin or Obi-Wan shown using levitation? No they were not.

And I've explained several times that a Force Choke is simply a choke without physically putting a hand around someones throat.

Shazam!

Also: The movie

Originally posted by Nephthys
Shazam!

Also: The movie


This video contains content from Lionsgate, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.

Damn, sorry.

What does Cap fight like? Does he throw his shield alot?

Nope, he pretty just gets his ass kicked. Alot. Its quite funny actually.

edit: Ah, he just threw his shield through someones guts. But it was an alien who regenerated straight away so I don't know about durability. And to be fair, he mostly gets his ass kicked by the Hulk, which isn't anything to be ashamed of (though still funny).

So Cap has no impressive screen feats? wtf?

Jedi Anakin or Sith Anakin, RJ?

Stop dodging.

Also, Cap floored Hulk with his shield.

-AC

Well, he performed the force choke as a Sith, but the ability was already within him. It's silly to think that the moment he became a Sith, he was granted new powers. He simply used his existing powers in an evil fashion.

Anakin has a tendency to go dark side, he did it twice before falling. Once against the Tuskens, then against Dooku round 2.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Well, he performed the force choke as a Sith, but the ability was already within him. It's silly to think that the moment he became a Sith, he was granted new powers. He simply used his existing powers in an evil fashion.

Anakin has a tendency to go dark side, he did it twice before falling. Once against the Tuskens, then against Dooku round 2.

He can only use force-choke in this fight if he's a Sith, though.

Right?

Also, Obi-Wan can't use force-choke.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
He can only use force-choke in this fight if he's a Sith, though.

Right?

Also, Obi-Wan can't use force-choke.

-AC

Wrong. Force choke is a dark side power. Anakin went dark side twice as a Jedi. If he goes dark side, even for just a minute, he can use force choke.

Who had more raw power, Anakin or Luke?

Also, it was never implied that Wolvie has such a strong mind as to resist the Jedi mind trick.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Wrong. Force choke is a dark side power. Anakin went dark side twice as a Jedi. If he goes dark side, even for just a minute, he can use force choke.

Who had more raw power, Anakin or Luke?

Also, it was never implied that Wolvie has such a strong mind as to resist the Jedi mind trick.

Obi-Wan's not going to let him kill with the force, is he? No.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Obi-Wan's not going to let him kill with the force, is he? No.

-AC Sorry, did Anakin always obey Obi Wan? Even as a Jedi? No. He was wild and reckless. If Anakin goes dark side, even more so.

No morals here, this is a fight to the death. If they have the ability to kill their opponent, they'll do it.


So, who had more raw power? Anakin or Luke?

In the movies, I don't particularly know, but let's get to the point because I've been waiting for you to slip up.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No morals here, this is a fight to the death. If they have the ability to kill their opponent, they'll do it

I knew that with enough coaxing you'd reveal how much of a grand hypocrite you become when it suits you.

No morals? If they have the ability to kill, they will?

You maintained that we were being ridiculous to say Spider-Man would pull someone's head off in a fight HERE because it's a fight to the death. No morals apply. You said that it was not correct; allowing him to use his abilities to kill, simply because it's not in his nature.

Now you're saying that, nature or not, these two will kill because it's a fight to the death. Such a hypocrite. It's honestly lame that you won't admit it.

Oh, I know what's coming: "Well since that fight I know that morals don't apply.", yeah. Sure.

-AC

If I recall correctly, Obi-Wan and Anakins fight on Mustafar was supposedly to the death, and even though he had the chance, did Ob-Wan kill Anakin??? No.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
In the movies, I don't particularly know, but let's get to the point because I've been waiting for you to slip up.



I knew that with enough coaxing you'd reveal how much of a grand hypocrite you become when it suits you.

No morals? If they have the ability to kill, they will?

You maintained that we were being ridiculous to say Spider-Man would pull someone's head off in a fight HERE because it's a fight to the death. No morals apply. You said that it was not correct; allowing him to use his abilities to kill, simply because it's not in his nature.

Now you're saying that, nature or not, these two will kill because it's a fight to the death. Such a hypocrite. It's honestly lame that you won't admit it.

Oh, I know what's coming: "Well since that fight I know that morals don't apply.", yeah. Sure.

-AC No. Since the Spider man debate, Mattie has decreed that it is up to the thread starter to apply morals or not.

Example, Batman can have his morals intact if the thread starter states so in the OP. Or Batman can kill. See the "Bruce Wayne versus Simon Phoenix" thread as an example.

Thread starter here never applied morals to the Jedi, therefore they can kill with force powers if they so desire.

RJ doesn't believe that someone should be allowed to kill here if they wouldn't kill in their movies.

He specifically said that of Spider-Man.

So, he has to do a 180 now that it suits him, and admit it.

Edit: Ahh, weaselling. The biggest trait of the common RJ.

The O.P. didn't take away the morals either. YOU are assuming that they have none because it's a fight to the death, as we did...and you had issue with.

-AC

Originally posted by KingD19
If I recall correctly, Obi-Wan and Anakins fight on Mustafar was supposedly to the death, and even though he had the chance, did Ob-Wan kill Anakin??? No. Yes, but Anakin would have killed him without hesitation. Obi Wan did not kill Anakin because he loved him as a brother, plain and simple. If it had been any other Sith, Obi Wan would have killed him.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
If it had been any other Sith, Obi Wan would have killed him.

Proof?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Proof?

-AC

Darth Maul. And the fact that Obi Wan said he loved him like a brother.


And lookie:

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Master Kenobi and his padawan have stumbled across two pissed off veterans in the game. They immediately engage each other. To make the match fair the Jedi aren't allowed to directly pull Captain America's shield away from him with there force powers. Anything else goes.......this is goint to be messy.

anything else goes.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not denying he says it, but villains say things like that. You made the claim so YOU have to prove it. YOU have to prove what he said leads, factually, to the conclusion you drew.

I don't have to since it was said on screen, no one contradicted him, including wolverine, and Wolverine wasn't agreeable to it. It's a closed case. No debating it. Fact: you can kill wolverine by tearing him to shreds for at least 2 days.

Fact: you can kill wolverine by stabbing him through the brain stem.

It doesn't matter if this doesn't fit your agenda. You need to deal wit hit.



If it isn't true, then you need to provide evidence that says wolverine could survive the two day ass raping Sabertooth talked about. Unless you can, you must accept it. (You can't, so accept it.)




Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So? Thinking you can do something is totally different to being able to actually do it.

-AC

So, instead of actually addressing the point, you've decided to play a word game with my post. Not happening. Address the point or concede.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't have to since it was said on screen, no one contradicted him, including wolverine, and Wolverine wasn't agreeable to it. It's a closed case. No debating it. Fact: you can kill wolverine by tearing him to shreds for at least 2 days.

If you call me a racist and I don't disagree, does it factually mean I am? No.

It was never proven that you can kill Wolverine that way, at all. It was said, not proven.

You do have to, because you're not trying to prove it was said. You're trying to prove it can be done. Something being said is not something being done.

RJ SAYS he could beat Batman in real life. Am I to take that as fact?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Fact: you can kill wolverine by stabbing him through the brain stem.

It doesn't matter if this doesn't fit your agenda. You need to deal wit hit.

Prove it.

Not that it was said, but that it can factually be done. Nobody's successfully done, or tried to.

Originally posted by dadudemon
If it isn't true, then you need to provide evidence that says wolverine could survive the two day ass raping Sabertooth talked about. Unless you can, you must accept it. (You can't, so accept it.)

I'm not making claims, I'm simply not accepting yours.

There's a difference. I'm not saying your belief is untrue, I'm simply asking you for proof as to why you keep calling it fact.

You need to prove more than: "It was said.".

Originally posted by dadudemon
So, instead of actually addressing the point, you've decided to play a word game with my post. Not happening. Address the point or concede.

No word games. Did she say she thinks she can? Yes.

Did she show the ability? No.

You are claiming these are fact. Are you showing them as fact? No.

I don't go by "Think", I go by fact. Prove it, please.

-AC

Originally posted by KingD19
Sabers can't cut through Adamantium anyway. Sabers can't cut through Beskar(Mandalorian Iron), Virbanium, Phrik, etc.... There are a lot of metal a saber can't cut through, and they're not totally invulnerable Adamantium is. And Logan has a healing factor, a really powerful one, if you cut him, he'll heal.


That's fine, that one is in the rules. If you cut through his muscles though, he will take a moment to heal. His regeneration is not instantaneous.



You said it yourself, he forced open Grievous's chest plate. That was made of duranium (which is what they make star destroyers out of)

How did he force it open? he BENT it.


Where in the movie does it say that Adamantium is indestructible? Youtube clip please.




When was Logan seen fighting through a force-choke? he was not. So he can't do it. Maybe you should read the rules before you apply them to one and not the other.



It is a choke using the FORCE however. Meaning it can't be broken without the victim blocking it in the force. Logan can't do this.

Those making an argument that the Jedi won't kill the characters: WHAT!?! You put them in a death match and then claim they won't fight to the death? A bit of a spite thread then?

Also: Kenobi wouldn't kill Anakin? He left him burning and on fire. His intention was for him to die. And painfully.

He killed Grievous. He killed Maul. Why wouldn't he kill one of these two?