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Optimus leads his team of Autobots to the Hoth system. He sees that the Rebels are facing an overbearing invasion. Jazz convinces Ironhide that they should intervene. Everyone agrees and they tell the Rebels to pack there bags and watch from the hillside. "We got this shit." says Jazz. Vader sees this and doesn't retreat. He orders "Onward march. Continue with the attack as planned." He even boards the battlefield himself as he sees this as a rare challenge. Vader's troops are performing at an all-time high both out of inspiration and fear. Who wins Hoth?

Autobots
*Optimus Prime
*Ironhide
*Ratchet
*Sideswipe
*Jazz
*Bumblebee
*Arcee

Empire
*Darth Vader
*8 AT-AT Walkers
*12 AT-ST Walkers
*150 Snowtroopers

Autobots win. Those machines were just shithouse, that got beat by ropes lmao. Optimus and Sideswipe cuts all their legs off in no time. The other guys can do whatever they want, probably run over some incompetent snow troopers.

Vader could possibly get one kill, but then gets his head shot off.

Autobots easily win this. The integrity and weapon systems of the Imperial machines in no way compare to that of the Autobots.

If Vader can do that Force-butthurt-surge he did at the end of ROTS that shook the base and cracked the floors, all the Autobots get their shit ****ed up.

Originally posted by Robtard
If Vader can do that Force-butthurt-surge he did at the end of ROTS that shook the base and cracked the floors, all the Autobots get their shit ****ed up.

agreed

Sideswipe solos.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Sideswipe solos.

You're gay

Vader conjours up a win.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're gay

Well, if all that needs doing is disabling their legs, and Sideswipe has shown he can cut through metal, why wouldn't he solo?

It's not like he's fighting someone who can defend themselves.

-AC

Originally posted by Placidity
Autobots win. Those machines were just shithouse, that got beat by ropes lmao.

Take away that rope and then they're not shithouse.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Take away that rope and then they're not shithouse.

Yea they are...

Slow, hard to maneuver, easily toppled, slow rate of fire, defenseless against attacks from close proximity (on the ground) and worst of all, operated by morons.

Originally posted by Placidity
Autobots win. Those machines were just shithouse, that got beat by ropes lmao. Optimus and Sideswipe cuts all their legs off in no time. The other guys can do whatever they want, probably run over some incompetent snow troopers.

Vader could possibly get one kill, but then gets his head shot off.

Yeah the Autobots win here. They're quick enough to dodge the AT-AT's fire and can take advantage of the AT-AT's weakness (the legs) pretty easily. As you say, Optimus and Sideswipe can slice them off and the others can use cable from Echo Base to trip them. AT-ST's go down easy under Autobot fire.

Originally posted by Placidity
Yea they are...

Slow, hard to maneuver, easily toppled, slow rate of fire, defenseless against attacks from close proximity (on the ground) and worst of all, operated by morons.


All true.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Well, if all that needs doing is disabling their legs, and Sideswipe has shown he can cut through metal, why wouldn't he solo?

It's not like he's fighting someone who can defend themselves.

-AC My thoughts exactly. But I wonder what kind of traction his wheels will get on the snow?

The At-ATs and AT-STs are pretty useless when you consider that they're extremely slow and can only fire in the direction that they're facing. I always wondered why the Rebels couldn't figure that out and just flank them from the rear.

Luke figured it out.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Well, if all that needs doing is disabling their legs, and Sideswipe has shown he can cut through metal, why wouldn't he solo?

It's not like he's fighting someone who can defend themselves.

-AC

Vader and 150 troopers. He's not soloing.

Snowtroopers are rubbish, they are trained as well as Stormtroopers, and they couldnt hit a 400 fleeing walking carpet.

Vader? What's he gonna do? MAYBE some slight saber damage, but he was SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW. SS will run him over.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Snowtroopers are rubbish, they are trained as well as Stormtroopers, and they couldnt hit a 400 fleeing walking carpet.

Vader? What's he gonna do? MAYBE some slight saber damage, but he was SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW. SS will run him over.

150 of them firing on one target, they're going to hit. Even if they are retarded (which they are).

Force push, force crush and that lightsabre would cut through SS like butter.

PS, SS doesn't have snow-tyres, so he's going to have to hump it on foot.

But the Rebels are there to help, th snowtroopers are gonna have to fight them too. But we are talking about SS soloing, so it's a moot point.

Vader was never shown force pushing anything remotely as big as SS, was he?

I think he could adapt to the snow, he's a frigging transformer.

Originally posted by Placidity
Autobots win. Those machines were just shithouse, that got beat by ropes lmao. Optimus and Sideswipe cuts all their legs off in no time. The other guys can do whatever they want, probably run over some incompetent snow troopers.

Vader could possibly get one kill, but then gets his head shot off.

How can they cut off their legs? Their armor has yet to be even affected in the slightest by gigaton power explosions.

AT-ATs have the range of AT LEAST 17 kilometers. And you can't forget about the AT-STs and snowtroopers...

But yeah, Transformers may turn the tide, so it's entirely likely that Rebels would win.

Vader is indeed very powerful. I'd say he's better than Dooku with the Force. Is he, say, Magneto? No. But very strong. He's very handy with a lightsaber as well.

I think some of you are underestimating the AT-AT's. There cannons are VERY powerful. Excessive fire from them would probably **** up everybody not named Optimus Prime. I think both sides have a chance. But seriously, I could see two Autobots soloing the Clones if they did it smart. Would they be messed up? Sure. 150 weapons pointed in the same direction with very skilled men holding them will do that to you. But come on, Ironhide would obliterate tons with those cannons. I say Ratchet and Ironhide should fight the Vader and troops since they're the slowest Autobots in the lineup.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
But the Rebels are there to help, th snowtroopers are gonna have to fight them too. But we are talking about SS soloing, so it's a moot point. No. Read the OP. The rebels are chilling from a hillside watching. And since everyone doubts the Stormtroopers competency:

STORMTROOPERS ARE REPLACED BY 150 CLONE TROOPERS WITH SNOW GEAR.

So now they are Clone Troopers? There were no Clone Troopers on Hoth.

Obviously, that's why I had them inserted.

OK, so the Empire gets pwned in the original scenario then?

You came forth with the opinion that the Stormtroopers sucked. I agree with you that the movie incarnations of them are highly incompetent. So I replaced them with Clone Troopers. There's no question they are elite soldiers.

I came up with that opinion? Thats literally common knowledge.

Great. So what's the problem?

Sounded like you were implying that I just now discovered this fact.

Away from the bullshit. I think Ratchet and Ironhide can solo the troops. Not sure if they can take Vader as well. Prime kinda ensures victory though. He's too powerful.

Look, I love SW like no ones business, but how is Vader gonna beat a Transformer? Remember, we are going with what he did onscreen, no speculation.

He still fairly powerful from what we saw onscreen.
-Choke a man from miles away while looking at them on a tv screen.
-Limited flight.
-Saber throw.
-Casually throws objects at his bidding.
-Destroyed a medical room, crushing droids, flattening canister tanks, and dropping droids(possible EMP).
-Eliminated dozens and dozens of Jedi at the Temple during the Purge.

Choke? Would do shit on the bots.

Flight? He jumped off some stairs, thats all.

Saber throw? He wasnt in control of the saber, he just chucked it.

He casually threw objects that would have no effect on the bots.

Key word, "possible."

Eliminated dozens of Jedi BEFORE he had armor, this thread is about ESB Vader, yes?

A shitty post. I know. It's just that the OT had lacking feats. Maybe I should've used Palpatine.

Well, if we are talking the Battle of Hoth, I assumed it was ESB Vader.

Transformers win. Even if things suddenly went bad, all that would happen is "The Touch" would come on in the background and they'd come back and win.

As Darth Martin said, you guys underestimate AT-ATs. They have the firepower in the gigatons and effortlessly shrugged off artillery with NO damage!

Not saying that Empire wins, just saying that both sides have a chance here.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So now they are Clone Troopers? There were no Clone Troopers on Hoth.

Whatever happened to the Clone Troopers anyways? Were the Storm Troopers clones too?

BTW Is'nt ESB Vader (in suit) still RoTS Vader (in suit), canon-wise?

BTW, IMO : Vader flew momentarily and used Force-Saber-throw. It's just that the special effects sucked in those days.

Originally posted by Blinky
Whatever happened to the Clone Troopers anyways? Were the Storm Troopers clones too?

BTW Is'nt ESB Vader (in suit) still RoTS Vader (in suit), canon-wise?

BTW, IMO : Vader flew momentarily and used Force-Saber-throw. It's just that the special effects sucked in those days.
No one knows.

Yes, but older, slower.

No, he jumped down some stairs with his hands out, and that wasn't a saber throw, if it was, why didn't he call his saber back to him?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No one knows.

Yes, but older, slower.

No, he jumped down some stairs with his hands out, and that wasn't a saber throw, if it was, why didn't he call his saber back to him?

No they weren't, by that time most of the original clones had died out.

True, but also more powerful Force wise.

If he can control objects w/the Force, then why can't he control his lightsaber?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No one knows.

Yes, but older, slower.

No, he jumped down some stairs with his hands out, and that wasn't a saber throw, if it was, why didn't he call his saber back to him?

So you admit he might have that force-field power from RoTS?

He did call it back to him, IMO. Watch, you don't see him pick it up it just appears right back in his hands, seconds later.

Also if vader could not fly, or it wasn't implied by Lucas that he could... then why could Vader fly in the RoTS super nintendo game? That seems a little random.

Originally posted by Blinky
He did call it back to him, IMO. Watch, you don't see him pick it up it just appears right back in his hands, seconds later.

Also if vader could not fly, or it wasn't implied by Lucas that he could... then why could Vader fly in the RoTS super nintendo game? That seems a little random. Do we see the saber flying back into his hands? No.

Nintendo games have no bearing here.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Do we see the saber flying back into his hands? No.

Nintendo games have no bearing here.

Ummmm yeah and it does not show him picking it up either. That was force-throw, even if they didn't spoon feed it to you.

Well I'm just saying. It's open whether or not he flew. I say he did momentarily -- you say he did'nt. Well obviously somebody somewhere in Lucas LTD thought he flew too. Ok ok I'll shut up about the Nintendo game, bad on my part. Still... you say he didn't fly I say it looks like he did.

You saying that was saber throw is like me saying Han Shagged Leia on the Falcon on the way to Cloud City. We didn't see it, but who's to say it didn't happen?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
No they weren't, by that time most of the original clones had died out.

True, but also more powerful Force wise.

If he can control objects w/the Force, then why can't he control his lightsaber?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You saying that was saber throw is like me saying Han Shagged Leia on the Falcon on the way to Cloud City. We didn't see it, but who's to say it didn't happen?

Look he threw the f*cking lightsaber and totally destroyed his target (a huge catwalk) with precision, he didn't pick it up after he threw it. This is the first instance of a force sabre-throw, where the hell do you think they got the idea?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You saying that was saber throw is like me saying Han Shagged Leia on the Falcon on the way to Cloud City. We didn't see it, but who's to say it didn't happen?
Well from the looks of it - they could have shown Han underdressing Leia, shown them in foreplay, then shown Han on top of her, then cut to a scene of Ewoks. Even then you'd say, "nah he didn't bone Leia because they didn't show his winky going in".

Vader chucked his saber at Luke, it flew at Luke like a lame duck and hit the platform, there was no precision. He wasn't that far, anyone could have thrown it and had it hit as Vader did. I guess it can be seen as saber throw, but when I think saber throw, I think about a Jedi hurling his saber and controlling it throughout it's flight, then SEEING it smack back in his palm.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Vader chucked his saber at Luke, it flew at Luke like a lame duck and hit the platform, there was no precision. He wasn't that far, anyone could have thrown it and had it hit as Vader did. I guess it can be seen as saber throw, but when I think saber throw, I think about a Jedi hurling his saber and controlling it throughout it's flight, then SEEING it smack back in his palm.

Again, EVEN IF HE DIDN'T, if he can TK other objects/people, why not do the same with a lightsaber?

I guess you got me there. On that note, then any Jedi/Sith with a degree of telekinesis can do force choke, yes?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I guess you got me there. On that note, then any Jedi/Sith with a degree of telekinesis can do force choke, yes?

Probably yes, but Jedi don't do it because they consider it to be a dark side technique.

I never bought into it being an "advanced" force technique. After all, it's just a telekinetic grip on the windpipe.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I never bought into it being an "advanced" force technique. After all, it's just a telekinetic grip on the windpipe.

exactly

Glad someone finally sees it my way.